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…from what i can gather, David Wright and Jose Reyes appeared to be the most depressed and in-shock players following yesterday’s loss to the Marlins…
…i heard reyes just stood at his locker, back to reporters, not moving much for quite a while, while people 
waited to speak with him…wright looked like some one had died, while talking to reporters with a blank stare in his eyes…
Reyes, when finally speaking to reporters after the game, said:
“I mean, it’s tough – it’s tougher now because of what happened last season. This season we’re going to go home early again and that’s not easy, because in spring training we had a good feeling about this team. This is not easy. It’s going to be a tough off-season for us.”
Wright, talking to reporters following the game, said:
“I’m disappointed, frustrated, you know, it’s a failed feeling. It’s something that when it hits you it hits you hard…We failed. We failed as a team. There is no pointing fingers, no excuses, we, as a unit, didn’t get the job done…
“We need to get better. We need to get better individually, as a team and all 25 guys need to really look at themselves in the mirror and do whatever they can and whatever is possible to be ready in spring training…
“It’s frustrating as a player. The fans are obviously frustrated. We went out there, we didn’t get the job done, we played with heart, we played with passion and we just were not good when we needed to be good.”
…i know these two dropped the ball in some key spots down the stretch, but they were fairly consistent and productive all season long…to suggest either of these two players need to be traded is ridiculous…if anything, they need to be given more responsibility…
…the time has come to turn the page…
…turn the page from Carlos Delgado, Orlando Hernandez, Luis Castillo, Pedro Martinez, Damion Easley, Marlon Anderson, and others, and make this the team of David Wright, Jose Reyes and Johan Santana, with Mike Pelfrey, Carlos Beltran and John Maine standing quietly right behind them…
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Wow, did you just suggest getting rid of Delgado? I’m not going to agree or disagree at this point - I’m just surprised you alluded to it.
Anyway, I agree - the core should be kept. Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Santana, Pelfrey, and Maine. I don’t think anyone else is completely off-limits, depending on what the Mets could get through trades.
I’d agree with that. I’d also pick up Delgado’s option as there’s no one really better available on the market this offseason other than Tex, who will cost a mint in money and years. I’d rather see the Mets spend that money on fixing the bullpen and the back of the rotation (and *maybe* going after Orlando Hudson).
Pedro, Alou and El Duque are all off the books now and Wagner’s contract is gone next year. Plus the Mets are not a poor team. They should do what is necessary to fix the holes.
With Nick Evans around I think you can’t look at Delgado as strictly a 1B situation. If the Mets can sign a solid LF (say, Manny Ramirez) then Nick Evans as your 1B and 7th hitter isnt bad at all.
Reyes
Murphy (2B?)
Manny
Beltran
Wright
Church
Evans
catcher
pitcher
The point isnt to fix the offense, but to not waste a lot of time fixing something that isnt broken. They dont need better offensive players, they need more clutch players. Thats a tough trick to pull.
If they sign one bat, they can spend the rest of the offseason thinking about the pitching needs. This is the prominent need and should demand the most time and effort.
If we can get Manny on a two year contract, okay. No more though. That’ll give F-Mart the time he needs. Probably only needs one year.
Totally agree that the team should focus on the big issues which are pitching.
I think you have to put blame on the two areas that have been obvious for 2 years……..
HEALTH AND BULLPEN
Consistently this team has gotten hurt at exactly the wrong time.
This year the list is long.
Church - multiple DL stints due to concussion. Never right after starting the year
Alou - knew he would be hurt but hurt all year this time and gave the team absolutely nothing
Pagan - was due to be a solid bench performer but hurt himself in May and never returned
Castillo - hurt all year and when came back…was still not healthy. Why he was added in Sept is a mystery to me. Should have gone on the 60 day DL and been tossed to the side for the year. Clearly he was never right.
Easley - mostly healthy until the last month where he hurt himself just as the team was coming to rely on his steady bat
Tatis - same story as above. Found to be a successful component to the outfield mix and after a couple of very good months…Hurts himself in late August and leaves us struggling to find a RH bat off the bench
Wagner - Torn whatever in mid August and done for the year
Maine - goes down to injury in shoulder with bone spur in August. But not right for the 4 weeks before that. Basically not himself from the All star weekend on.
Sanchez - unhealthy for the beginning of the year and never got his velocity or command back. Still hurt from the cab ride in my mind from 2006
Castro - the only backup catcher in baseball who can not give the team 50 games. Pathetically unhealthy and should retire or choose to use a frickin nutritionist
Ayala - after we picked him up…he immediately battled health issue with his groin. Gave us what he could but was injured and still pitching down the stretch
Pedro - not healthy all year. Starts the year goes 2 innings and then has his issues with the hamstring or whatever
El DoneQue - never healthy all year and could not be relied on.
I am sure I am missing a few but the reality is some major injuries derailed the team again. Couple that with the unsightly bullpen performance and you have arrived at another lost season of fandom.
Solutions abound but the most important ones are to find some depth that you can rely on. The injuries to Alou, Castillo and Duque were expected but the injuries to Tatis and Easly were devastating because they were playing well and admirably replacing the starters (Castillo and Alou) Next years bench needs to be some veterans but some youth to fill in and handle the rigors of the positions when called upon for full time duty.
To his credit Carlos D really carried this team for about two months. I was screaming for his release after two months of futility. I feel he deserves to return but on the other hand, he cannot be looked at as a major contributor beyond next year. I think it makes sense to move him to the AL while his value is peaked. Maybe he can get a guaranteed 2nd year added in. He is not likely to repeat this monster year and his defense is amazing - zero range, little reflexes.
Pedro, Duque, Moises & Marlon - sorry guys it’s time to go. Damon earned another year as a part timer. The biggest thing is not to have our bench consist of 4 former 2bmen. Luis & Argenis are not ML average players, Marlon is not an OF, Ramon Martinez is not going to put up Stache or Damon like production. Loretta or Ellis would at least have provided some offense and solid defense this year. Its amazing we got thru the season with a true backup SS or 3b.
I would question whether he can be a major contributor in 2009.
Look was his big push at the end for real or just a hot streak? He has always been a hot and cold player and IF he had been HOT duirng th rfirst three months of the season would things have been different? I dont think that we can take a chance that he revert back to his old 150AVG and 10 HRs for the first three months. I wold rather have a consistant 250AVG 15HR guy there from the start of the season. I would NOT sign MANNY, he is trouble like Barry or Sammy. I would dump Delgado and play evans or Martinez at first base. We need to dump the pen and start fresh and add a new arm to the rotation.
3 months is a long hot streak.
Ha, yeah, seriously, who gets hot for 3 months straight? Only a few players like Pujols, Howard, Manny, etc. We’re talking about MVP candidates here. However, I do understand that we can’t expect the same production out of Delgado next year. And on the other hand, replacing even 75% of his 2008 production will be difficult considering what’s out there. There’s no way we can replace it from inside. It’s quite a conundrum. It will be interesting to see what happens to Delgado.
I think it’s a foregone conclusion that they will pick up the option…and keep him. I think their biggest needs are shoring up LF, bullpen help, and adding another starter who can go deep into games. AJ Burnett, CC via free agency, or Roy Halladay via trade are excellent options.
They can also pick up the option…which is pretty reasonable in terms of dollars to production this past year….and then trade him for what the club needs.
I do think if you can net a closer of value back for Delgado…you do that and spend a few bucks on getting a RH hitting masher in LF
I can even see doing a trade of Beltran at this point for the right package of hitters/relievers
turn the page on Delgado? hmmm..
how about exercising his option and trading him to an AL team?
Maybe the Tigers? or Toronto?
without delgado in the second half, we aren’t even playing for a playoff spot on the last day, we would have been no where near first place with 17 to play…
he had a MONSTER second half, and he looks rejuvenated. i’d bring him back in a heart beat.
2nd base, one outfield spot and pitching. we’d be golden…
I have to disagree very strongly on getting rid of Delgado at this point. We need to fill holes, not create them.
does anyone think Delgado will but up anywhere close to 38/124 in his Age 37 year?
If he has value and we can get 2 or three pieces including some live young BP arms why not?
plug Murph in at 1B full time.
loll did you think he would at the start of this year biggie. That arguement really doesnt fly anymore given the resurgance that delgado had. Id say keep him..he has earned that in my book.
No way..
I thought we’d be lucky if he made it through the year and hit 25 HRs.. So now that he over performed and has increased his value why not sell high, pair some payroll and move on?
Because imo we dont have anyone that we can be sure of that will put up even average ML numbers for a 1b next year. We need to keep him and keep that hole plugged up for delgado while we train for a possible replacement(carp/pacussi/evans) that will come cheaper and if delgado chooses to play beyond 09, let him go and get the draft picks.
Murphy at 1B is not the answer. Besides, the Mets have him playing 2B during the Arizona Fall League, so they have other plans for him.
The better answer would be if they can get someone like Nady who can play OF and 1B to platoon with Delgado next season.
in 2009 he will be closing in on 40
the age of players over 35 performing at a high level is over. I just dont have any confidence that a 37 year old DelGado will do anything near his 2008 numbers.
that said.. what numbers do you think we will get out of a 37 year old Carlos Delgado? I say probably revert to 25/90 and have a few injuries..
If we can get younger at 1B - a easily replaceable position - and save a few $$ and add a few significant parts in exchange for a 37 year old player who is not the leader we need.. why not.
To plug in someone at that age and expect anywhere near the level of performance is similar to Alou in 2007/2008
Ive got more confidence in Murph at 1B than 2B - a much tougher position. .. there are plenty of 1B options out there.
IF - big IF - Delgado can bring in 2 strong swing and miss BP arms and maybe a prospect that we can package and move somewhere else why not?
So Delgado is untouchable in everyone’s minds?
Its soo funny..havent you guys learned your lesson on critizising delgado…..bottom line guys sorry to break it to you but delgado will be back next year.
so what numbers can you expect from him?
we know he brings NO leadership and the range of a phone booth.
240/25/95 ?
I pretty much agree with you 100% Biggie about bringing back Delgado being a huge risk and probably not being smart to rely on him, but I don’t see what better options we have.
I doubt a team is going to give us much back for Delgado, since they’re going to be considering the same risks we are by bringing him in, and there aren’t many power bats in FA. I would say even if Delgado performs similar to what he did in the last half of the season this year we’re still going to need another legitimate middle of the order bat. If we trade him we’re looking at filling to power hills instead of one. And I just don’t see how we can do that in this market.
ok…are you on the field to comment on delgados leadership….are you taking into account that he basically carried the team on his back for the second half…yea no leadership at all.
Ive seen how he conducts himself over the course of his tenure in NY. He is a quiet person and Not a vocal leader. He is NOT a winner and not a rah rah demonstrative guy.
Look. its clear that something needs to change with the makeup of this team. Plugging in some new BP arms and signing a replacement for OP aint gonna do it.
Of the pieces we have that most logical place to shake things up A BIT is First base. CD has to be the sacraficial lamb here.
Given his 2008 numbers and fixed cost I would definitely think he has some good value for an AMERICAN league club like Toronto or the Tigers who can part with some decent young BP arms and use him at 1B and DH.
and you would hope to pin the same or better production than delgado on someone who has never played in the Majors before….
Considering how much teams are scrambling for BP arms why would Toronto give them up for such a risk. And even if they did now we’re opening up, or actually making it even wide, a hole in the middle of the order. It’s a lateral move IMO unless you know of some way we can replace the theoretical production we’d get from Delgado as well as add another power bat.
thank you gina..thats my whole arguement.
using the Toronto example.
They got NO ONE with over 20 Hrs last year. Matt Stairs was their every day DH and Lyle OVerbay was their First BAseman.
Omar has to think out of the box.. use his scouting staff and turn up some young arms to capitalize on Delgado’s inflated value given his MVP caliber year.
Delgado is the next Alou, he is an injury waiting to happen and a “rally killer” in the early season. We cant afford to have a guy do nothing but pop up, strile out and hit in inning ending DP, bat after bat and cost us game after game as we wait for his bat to wake up. We have Murphy, Evans and Martinez to plug into those holes and we should use them. We do not need a power hitter as much as we need a guy that hits for average. When you are counting on the HR ball to win you end up like the Yankees. I wouold rather see 2 or 3 singles and double than one HR. That gets the team shot and upsets the pitcher more than 1 HR. I would also like to see REYES STEAL every game, that is exiting and get the team and fans pumped up.
By all accounts, Delgado is a huge clubhouse presence for this team.
Here is what we do know. We know Delgado had wrist surgery entering 2007. We know he was horrible that year. We also know he broke his hand on the last day of the season. Does anyone think that maybe he needed a little time to get it all back (flexibility, movement)? I think Delgado has earned his option. Why wouldn’t you pay this guy $12MM to hit 30HR (low end IMO) and drive in nearly 100RBI. However, I would hedge that bet by signing Manny.
jimyager:
If Toronto wants a 30HR hitter, they can take D-Wright and give us Roy Halladay. We can move Murph over to 3B and sign O-Dawg.
you guys penciling in Delgado for 30 Home Runs next year better get their erasers ready.
The guy will be 37 years old.
I think realistically he can be counted on for 125 games, 25 homers and 90 RBI hitting maybe 256.
Also 2 DL stints can be expected from a 37 year old player.
Dont you all learn from relying on players over 35 in key positions?
ok who do you REALISTICALLY think can put up those numbers in your projected amount of games played……
you yourself have described those numbers as “League average” so why couldn’t they find a league average player to fill the gap and play much much better defense.
Trade Beltran while he has some superstar value. He is now in his 30’s with an injury history. Do it now before it’s too late.
an injury history while playing 161 games this season… yeah let’s trade him when he had a better statistical year than in 2006 with the exception of hrs and a slight drop in rbis. great idea.
I don’t get why everyone wants to trade the only guy that showed up yesterday.
Anyone with stellar defense and still managing to get 110+ RBI and runs is worth keeping IMO, unless there really is a better option.
There is no better option in Centerfield than Carlos Beltran….in all of baseball.
period
Sizemore ? the player formerly known as Androo Jones - pretty funny yes
Beltran is just an average player and an above average CF player. he is NOT a superstar and never will be. He is just another good player on a team of good players, NOT great just good.
Do you see this guy play? If he’s not a superstar, why would Colorado ask for him when discussing trading Holliday? If he’s not a superstar, I don’t know who is.
LOL. There’s always some chucklehead who wants to trade Beltran no matter what he does. That guy just can’t get any love from some fans.
Right, chief. A CF in his 30’s with bad knees getting paid big time- we are now playing with house money.
In his 30’s…lol..you make it sound like he’s 35…he JUST turned 30…
bad knees? yea they kept him from playing 160 games this season.
Lets trade the Best overall CF in the game with below market value contract ….yea…thats a great idea.
Def a good idea to open up a hole rather than fix other ones.
ok steve phillips, whatever you say.
i agree with starz evaluation.
OK Chuckles. A 30 year old CFer on his way to earning his 3rd GG with the Mets and who played 160 games this year, hit 27HRs, drove in 112 RBI and stole 25 bases - plus he didn’t fold in Sept.
As starz said, CF is one spot that definitely does not need fixing.
He has a full no trade claus in his contract and who would fill the void in CF? Beltran is far from the problem at all. He had a great Sept and came threw yesterday with a HR when we needed it
Agreed except for Easley. I’d bring him back.
Right on, Matt. Agree completely with everything you said. Sure Delgado turned it around at the end and proved me wrong that he was done. But his inconsistency in the first half cost the Mets countless games. And it is time to turn the page mentally on the older crowd and give the younger guys a chance to spread their wings (with some new complementary players perhaps).
But I would keep Easley. He’s 100% clas-s and professionalism. And he’s such a good bench/backup player.
so your against bringing back delgado?
The most you’ll get out of Delgado is one more year. I can’t see bringing him back for 2010 even if he has a decent 2009 which in itself is a longshot given how he performed the first half of 2008 and how old he is.
So it’s time to re-tool with youngsters and the Mets certainly have enough candidates for first base with Carp, Murphy and Evans.
This is especially true if they do a half-a$$ed job rebuilding the pen and don’t get a solid closer.
Even though the bullpen was definitely the #1 problem on this team, it couldn’t hurt to shake things up a little with the position players as well. I just don’t believe, however, that getting rid of Beltran, Reyes or Wright is the answer. They are too young and productive. But not bringing back Delgado might help As the most established high-profile veteran on the team, he sets the tone …. or at least others defer to him. So if you want to change the tone, then I think it’s Delgado.
Do I think they will decline his option. No. I do think he will be back. But I agree with Matt they should consider making the change there..
Carp and Evans are not the answer at first. Not if we want to compete next year
agree .. sell high with Delgado. Exercise his option and move him for some young arms.
need to make SOME changes to the mix here.
How do you know Carp, Evans or Murphy are not the answer at first?
Many said Murphy wasn’t an answer for anything but the bench before the season started. Not one fan on here was singing his praises. Not a one. No one knows what you really have in a kid until you try them at the ML level.
If Delgado hadn’t disappeared the first half, maybe the Mets might have made the playoffs.
if we didnt have major injuires at crucial times we probably would have made the playoffs.
murphy isnt the answer because they are preping him for a job at 2b
carp isnt the answer because he cannot field according to alot of people.
I dont think delgado is the problem on this team. We need to keep him to if at all to fill the hole at 1b because frankly we dont have any better options and since we do not we may hurt the team more by getting rid of delgado than having him return next year.
and who is to say Murphy can just step in at 2B and turn double plays?
thats a bit of a reach.
Anyone who can field well with good range and hit 25 jacks will be better than what Delgado will do next year.
Well, when Wright came up, his fielding was pretty shaky. Probably not one fan had him winning a Gold Glove ever, let alone so soon. But he worked at his defense and it got better.
“According to a lot of people” isn’t good enough when it comes to prospects because opinions are always all over the place and worth a dime a dozen.
While Delgado was certainly MVP material the second half, you have to admit he was the most inconsistent offensive player on the team. He was literally MIA the first half. And, yes, the bullpen is still public enemy #1 … but here’s an opportunity to shake up the team where you have promising youngsters who might be able to fill the void.
Or, if Delgado didn’t have a monster 2nd half, the Mets might have never been contenders for the playoffs.
Well just as you bashed muphy stepping in to play 2b what makes you think he will be successful playing 1b hmm? the 0 games murphy played in the minors or the 0 games he will play in the fall league…
You guys are soo itching to shake up the team that you dont take the timeout to realize what you have and what you will be giving up. Tell me who you have absolute confidance in that will put up delgados numbers or even just average numbers for 1b and be able to field effecivly at a major league level.
Maybe someone else would have stepped up.
The point is, if, as many say, the mindset and character of the team is an issue, then Delgado as the #1 high profile veteran on the team is likely to set the tone. So to change the mindset, maybe you have to change some of these current leaders.
Also, I don’t touch the young productive players. And if Delgado were 30 or 32 I might not touch him either. But at his age, the chance of him being an offensive force next year and beyond is slim. So while you have 3 youngsters who might be able to step in, take that opportunity to find out.
First off - to say Delgado fields effectively at the ML Level is a stretch. He is flat out awful today and will be just as bad next year.
I have zero confidence in Delgado putting up 35+/120+ MVP numbers next year. That is the one thing I know for sure.
I saw Evans play 1B and he made plays that Delgado never could.
Delgado has very little leadership skills and will decline significantly next year in his offensive production and defense.
In terms of league average 1B numbers. I think we can get 25/90 out of a Delgado replacement very easily. And add some better defense as well.
Again, IF we can capitalize on his numbers and get some valuable parts for Delgado I see no reason to not shake things up.
Dirty, I am not anxious to shake up the team except for the bullpen. In fact, I have been arguing with other fans who want to trade either Beltran, Wright, or Reyes.
But a little shakeup might help a little. And Delgado, IMO, would be the place to try it. You have to admit, the chances of him replicating this year’s numbers are slim.
i agree but i think it would be a bigger risk for this team to give the job to carp than to give the job to delgado. We have heard the same retoric with delgado for 2 years not and while 07 was an “off” year, it was still about avg for 1b in the league. Delgado was cast off as being too old and done at the begining of this year and one can make the case that if not for delgado we wouldnt have even come close to postseason play. Like i said we have games on the line and i think delgado gives us a better chance to win than carp. Id try carp as a bench player to spell delgado every once in a while and probably inherit the job in 2010 but for 2009 delgado has earned his option and will be starting next year.
FAH- i know and i thank you for combating the idiots(trolls) that want to trade wright/reyes/beltran. I also agree and want the biggest shake up to take place in the bullpen. I still disagree that carp would be a better option for us next year than delgado. Have carp be delgados understudy. I do not expect and never expected delgado to put up 06 and now 08 numbers but i do expect delgado to put up average numbers for a 1b in the majors. I had evans in my head to inherit the 1b job but i do believe in trying people out. I think the mets have a better chance at getting league avg or above avg production with delgado than carp.
if all you can expect out of Delgado next year is 24 HR and 87 RBI and NO defensive ability or leadership ability I say move him NOW while he has created incredible value for an American LEgue club.
Available First Basemen? I heard that the Marlins want to move Mike Jacobs. 32 jacks in 470 AB last year… Im not saying thats the solution but Omar has to think out of the box and not bring back everyone.
Beltran, Wright, Reyes, Santana, Pelf are locks .. but everyone else is available.
Dirty, you have valid points. But whoever takes Delgado’s place, you can’t expect them to be successful right off the bat. And it might take them awhile just to find out who is best suited among the 3 to be his replacement. So you either do it next year or in 2010. Whichever year you do it in, it’s going to be painful and you’re going to need patience. Just like they needed patience with Pelfrey. But I’d rather get started sooner rather than later, as I think all 3 kids are ready to be tried out and if you wait too long, some of them can stagnate in the minors or on the bench.
If Delgado does come back, however, I won’t have a major problem as long as they overhaul the pen a lot and clear out some guys like Castillo. It’s more about opportunity and timing.
exactly FAH. No doubt you bring back delgado after 09, i would be open to having carp be his understudy or evans but of course he will not be successful off the bat. Im sure the mets want murphy to start at 2b and my position has changed on that but i know murphy will not be the smoothest 2b out there off the bat but compaired to castillo(who will most likely get traded), argenis and easley(age/health)..thats a risk we are going to have to take. I would like nothing more than to have a young person take over delgado but imo i dont think we have anyone that i have confiance in that can put up delgados numbers or even half of that over a full ML season.
Well I didn’t say to bring Delgado back after 09, just that I don’t have a major problem with them bringing him back next year. 2010 I think is a stretch for Delgado given his age.
I’m not sure why Murphy and Evans can’t continue to platoon in LF next year while they go out and sign either Hudson or use a veteran as a stopgap option at 2B. I also have some doubts as to how Murphy will perform at 2B. And he nor Evans were bad in LF either. Both have respectable Zone Ratings there that would place them in the middle of ML leftfielders this year — better than Bay, Carlos Lee, and Manny.
But regardless, whether it’s Carp, Murphy or Evans, you need to give these kids a real opportunity to prove themselves before writing them off. Most Mets fans wanted to write off Pelfrey at the beginning of this season. Now he is pretty valuable for the Mets.
they cant becasue we cant have that type of power production from the LF next season
Huh? Name all the power hitters on the Angels. It’s not about power per se.
oh my bad it should have read no doubt you DONT bring back delgado after 09..sorry
The Mets as a team hit more HRs than the Angels. So tell me why they have to have more power from LF.
I am by no means writing off our young talent. I want one of our young guys to eventually inherit 1b but if we have a guy with proven ML career numbers for relativly cheep, why not use him and let his successors get better so they can contribute in 2010 when 1b will be a hole on this team. People have said the hand thing and age thing in regard to delgado and i think its safe to say he has proved them and i all wrong. I am confidant delgado will put up at least average numbers next year for a 1b in the majors…i am not so confidant(yet) however in anyone else that we can stick inhouse that can do the job delgado has done. As for muphy i was initially opposed to having him start for us at 2b with such little experiance but its undeniable the impact of his bat is in our lineup. Plus castillo voiced some concerns wiht being benched for argenis(i could only imagine how he felt being benched for martinez). I think omar will trade castillo and we need muphs bat in the lineup. I propose let murphy start and bring in someone late in the game for def replacement.
Dirtry -
If you can only expect AVErage ML production out of Delgado next year then why cany you get that average production from another AVERAGE player and trade Delgado for pieces to make the BP better??
Everyone can agree that Delgado will bring SUB PAR fielding. why is this not a concern? The guy has zero range at first.
In your scenario you make a change at 2B (a rookie) and in left (who we dont kow)
this team needs a shake up in the veterans after the last two years. Delgado has value and can be moved and his expected AVERAGE production can be filled easily.
By signing a more expensive FA and spending more money than we have to in 1b. Theres no need to get rid of delgado and create a hole that we dont need to.
If you believe your evalutaion of delgado, what makes you think another gm will have a different opinion. Why would you expect we would get much in return?
I think given Delgado’s numbers this year he has MORE VALUE to an AL team because he can DH.
Im not advocating “signing a more expensive FA and spending more money than we have to in 1b”
This team needs to make more changes than the yearly bullpen tinker, replace the 2nd basemen and find a new left fielder.
If you think they can just plug a rook in at 2B. plus a rookie platoon in LF, Find some regurgitated bullpen slop to catch lightning in a bottle and MAYBE sign KRod for 15 mil a year and compete next year you are delusional
Delgado is absolutely the least expensive and best option we have. Honestly, I have no interest in a bidding war for Tex. Sure, go ahead and make the call, but that’s not our biggest problem, not by a long shot. Delgado earned the right to stay on this team one more year.
no to Tex.
Give us some league average production and better defense from first and some scrappy players for the locker room.
12 mil for league average 1B and no DH possibility isnt a bargain. What we can probably get for him given his performance in 2008 is worth more than his declining 2009 production and sub sub par defense in 2009.
Delgado was quite good defensively in the second half.
Easley’s interview yesterday was my favorite, dude seems like such a cool guy. When someone asked him if he could take anything positive from the season to move forward with, he pretty much just said no. He knows he doesn’t have much time left in the game and he’s never been in the playoffs, and he wears that on his sleeve.
I would definitely want him on the bench next year.
time to let easley go. he can’t make it through a whole season. we need to get younger on the bench. more speed and power is definitely needed there.
Depending what you do at 2b i think we should keep easley. Dump marlon anderson though for sure.
Easley is useful in the dugout/locker room and as a pitch hitter. He shouldnt get anywhere close to 320 at bats next year.
wow that is the most critical i have heard david be about the team. They had better be upset and angry at noone but themselves. Omar has his job cut out for him this offseason and he had better do good.
I actually agree with Cerrone’s analysis on this one. If you want to clear some house and make it different get rid of all of those guys he mentioned. Try Murphy at first and sign Orlando Hudson for 2nd.
i dont think getting rid of all of them will make us a better team but just create more problems than we need right now. Im against odog only because we will have to eat alot of castillos contract to trade him. Odog wants a chase utley type contract and i dont think numbers wise and injury history wise he is worth it. I would start murph in 2b(that is hoping he does well in AZ) and have someone on the bench for a defensive replacement.
Regardless of what is done at 2B next year, I’d be very surprised to see Castillo return. Seems like Jerry made it clear he has no use for him.
Mets can afford to eat his contract if he’s part of a package that gets some decent prospects and/or relievers in return.
I’d consider putting Wright at first, Murphy at third and sign O’dog for 2nd
It will likely be addition by subtraction. If he’s an unhappy part timer we dont need him sulking & festering on the bench.
To his credit Carlos D really carried this team for about two months. I was screaming for his release after two months of futility. I feel he deserves to return but on the other hand, he cannot be looked at as a major contributor beyond next year. I think it makes sense to move him to the AL while his value is peaked. Maybe he can get a guaranteed 2nd year added in. He is not likely to repeat this monster year and his defense is amazing - zero range, little reflexes.
Pedro, Duque, Moises & Marlon - sorry guys it’s time to go. Damon earned another year as a part timer. The biggest thing is not to have our bench consist of 4 former 2bmen. Luis & Argenis are not ML average players, Marlon is not an OF, Ramon Martinez is not going to put up Stache or Damon like production. Loretta or Ellis would at least have provided some offense and solid defense this year. Its amazing we got thru the season without a true backup SS or 3b. If David or Jose needed more than one day off at a time we would have been screwed. 2 IF’rs unable to hit or field in the same lineup is not a blue print for success.
“He is not likely to repeat this monster year and his defense is amazing - zero range, little reflexes.”
-geez where did i hear that before……..
“Pedro, Duque, Moises & Marlon - sorry guys it’s time to go”
-agree 100%
The bench needs some serious work. No offense to these guys hearts but is anyone really thrilled to see Marlon Anderson, Robinson Cancel, or Easley up in a big spot right off the bench?
Cancel actually performed well.
That said he’s a third catcher. Agree that Marlon needs to go but Easy can fill a role - not be a full time starter.
Gary, Keith, and Ron were suggesting bringing someone in who can bring in some leadership. At the same time, though, they were saying that Reyes and Wright need to take over the team’s leadership. Is it me or did they contradict themselves?
Who is this player that can bring in leadersip like Keith did in 83′?
I think we have that with santana as far as leadership. Now for the offense side we dont have a go to guy. I dont know who you bring up for that though.
Santana can only provide leadership on the field every 5th day. They need an everyday player to fill that role.
yea i know thats why i split my response in two
I believe they said either/or. Their point was there’s a leadership vacuum and somebody needs to step in from somewhere to fill it.
What Mike Francesa said last night is right- this team needs to sign a veteran free agent to lead them, OR trade Wright or Reyes. That would shake the core.
Francessa would like nothing more than for the Mets to trade Wright or Reyes because the Yankees have NO comparable young stars.
Did he advocate trading Jeter or Cano, who isn’t even as good as Reyes or Wright, after the Yankees got dumped from the first round the last few years and didn’t do squat thisyear? Of course not.
He will play up collapse II today for all its worth as he revels in any Mets misery.
to be fair, francesa has been very fair in regards to the mets since he’s been solo. he also said that he only brought it up for conversation and put it to the callers to mull over and not neccessarily that he himself is advocating.
he’s also nailed cano in the last couple of weeks and said the yankees are going to need to seriously consider moving jeter to cf.
he’s not the mortal enemy everyone here likes to make him out to be,
I thought I heard him say something like “I don’t know how you don’t break up the core if they collapse a second year in a row.” It sounded like that was what he was advocating. But if he’s backtracked, that’s fine.
Nailing Cano is not the same thing as saying they need to break up the Yankee core. The Yankees have failed just as much as the Mets the last two years. Actually worse considering their payroll. It’s just that the Mets’ do it in a way that seems uglier when in reality, neither team has achieved squat the last two years. So calling for the Mets to break up their core while not saying the same thing about the Yankees is being hypocritical.
I think Francessa wanted the Mets in the playoffs just so his show would have some better content over the next few weeks. But otherwise, he revels in the Mets’ failures. And looks for anything he can to bash the Mets on.
after the Skanks lost to the Tigers Fatso said to “back up the truck” to change the team.
You just don’t give up on young, talented, howe-grown players like Wright and Reyes - especially before they’re even 25 years old
Francesa talks cr@p. I agree with the sign a veteran and I’d like to see either Manny or Burrell in LF. Burrell more so since he’s younger and has that attitude.
Though Manny is a far better player, I worry about him being “Manny” particurly if the fans boo him and he gets into one of those “screw you” funks he is known for.
As far as trading Wright or Reyes, where are you going to replace those kinds of numbers with such youth. Please, Mike, go back to your Yankees and stop trying to tell us about the Mets.
Wow - Pat Burrell in a Mets uniform. I’m having a very hard time wrapping my brain around that concept.
How about Holliday? They’ve said they have a lot of interest in Heilman. We could easily build a package around him and a prospect.
Oh, you mean like Arod????? Fat lot of good he does the Yankees….And their ‘captain’ couldn’t do anything with that team this year either. So much for his idea of a veteran presence…..
Francesa is a Yankee lover/Met hater, plain and simple. Nothing he says about either team can be taken seriously.
I personally can’t stand to hear his ranting and ravings, which are worse since Dog left. Wish he would have left too.
Fatso’s a moron.
this is going to be a huge offseason for omar.
i had a whole long post that got erased with nothing even close to being a taboo word and it got chopped?
meanwhile everything else is here?
same to me warrior..whats the list of key words today matt?
anyway i absolutly agree and i think they should have held off on the xtension until they saw what he could do in the offseason.
Did you have the word manage-ment in it? Or a seemingly innocent word like clas-sy? I just wrote a post saying how Easley was clas-sy and it didn’t get through until I changed the S’s to dollar signs. Matt has a great blog, but their spam/word filter is the dumbest ever.
Whatever the Mets decide on Delgado is fine. I don’t think he will be as productive next year as this one, but if they do retain him, make sure they have a capable back up in place. Maybe Carp, if he can do well in AAA next season.
It’s a sad state of affairs when Marlon Anderson was taking one of the biggest at bats of the season yesterday. This bench needs to be remade.
what is this with Carp? He’s not the type of player we need to fill that spot. Let’s either sign Delgado, move Wright to first or sign another first baseman.
Carp has hit very well in the minors. That’s for starters.
Why do you keep saying he won’t be able to do the job at first base eventually?
I hope that they try to utilize Carp, Evans, and Murphy next year if they don’t put them in a productive trade.
trust me evans and murph earned a spot for next year. Carp may be another midseason surprise..or trade bait
Yes, I agree with everything you just said … but there still haven’t been given any solid reasons why Carp might not be able to make it at first base as a Delgado replacement.
Defense? Well Wright wasn’t a great defensive player when he first came up and he’s gotten better at it with time.
Maybe the mark against Carp is that he was not acquired by the current regime and I think there has always been a tendency for Omar to undervalue or even ignore guys he didn’t acquire himself.
well evans/murphy was not aquired by the current regime either i think(i could be wrong on that)
I just think we would be shooting ourselves in the foot by getting rid of delgado. Carp may be a good bench player for next year and inherit the job in 2010 but as for next year the safer/secure option has to be delgado
Umm…Wright and Reyes were not Omar guys. Wright was almost traded by Steve Phillips to the Blue Jays.
OK, you’re right. Evans wasn’t acquired by Omar. But Murphy was acquired by Omar. In fact, we have Bernazard to thank for Murphy. His son was teammates with Murphy back in college ball in Florida. So he was likely drafted on the recommendation of Bernazard and his son.
As for Reyes and Wright, they were already young hot elite young players who made their ML debuts well before Omar came on as GM. There was nothing to promote in terms of them because they were already promoted and established before he came.
I stand by my comment that Omar has tended to generally undervalue and even ignore players he didn’t acquire himself.
All I want is some depth at 1B, whether that is Carp or not. That’s my point.
why exactly would we move wright to first?
Francesa was “right”??…Francesa is an idiot!!
seriously….trading reyes or wright is the most insane thing i have ever heard…
um actually its not insane. How many times are we gonna watch these guys absolutely choke when it matters the most. its nice for them to put all those numbers up,but when we need a big hit we all know deep down that they just cant come thru.
Its no coincidence that Arod hasnt won anything in his career and the teams he has left have actually gotten better! This guy might be the best player in baseball history yet he is a losing player who cant come thru when it counts the most. So whose to say that trading wright or reyes is gonna kill this franchise
I’d rather watch our home-grown players loose - what we do need is to surround them with some more talent and more arms
Marlon, Castillo both need to go other than that….or well, the entire bullpen…i can live with most moves
Wasn’t a doubt in my mind that even one of these guys didn’t care, didn’t want to win, didn’t have heart. Anyone who thought some were just going through the motions is just plain frustrated at the failure.
The failure was the BP, first and foremost. Start with major overhaul there. I don’t think Castillo should stay anymore than I think he WANTS to stay.
Go younger with holes we need to fill. And by that, I personally don’t think Manny is the answer to an outfield hole. Not enough defense skills, getting up there in age, therefore questionable bat next year. If we should have learned anything this year, it’s trying to rely on aging and/or injury prone players is not the way to build for success.
Delgado goes from MVP! to dead weight faster than a blown lead by the bullpen?
Its so silly to even mention dealing wright or reyes…or beltran for that matter. These guys r franchise-type talents who be mvp any given year, u don’t deal uys like that. Haven’t we suffered enough seeing kazmir flourish? There is no deal that I can even imagine that would be enough to deal reyes or wright. And in center, maybe the one player in baseball I would take over beltran would be sizemore (who’s not going anywhere)
lets face it. this team has no balls.
they fold like a cheap suit in the face of adversity.
i am totally disgusted!
4 hits against Scott (Tom Seaver) Olsen?
what a joke!
I don’t ever want anyone in centerfield other than Carlos Beltran..injured, hurt, inconsistent, whatever…DEFENSIVELY, he’s my rockstar… let’s not get rid of our line–up- let’s get rid of the bullpen….
I agree. Plus, I think Beltran has been one hitter that came through past couple weeks. He had that game winning single, he hit the game tying HR last night, and his Grand Slam against the Fish
I agree that we have the right core of Beltran, Santana, Reyes, Wright, Pelfrey, and Maine, but Minaya needs to make some serious changes around him.
-Get Dejesus from KC. His situational numbers are gaudy, he is a scrappy player and he’s the consistent force we need behind Reyes.
-Sign Orlando Hudson for 2B. He’s a true leader and will get on Reyes if he slacks. Hudson could have the Floyd effect for the Mets.
-Sign Krod and Juan Cruz. Both make our bullpen 1000x better with a shutdown 8th inning guy and the elite closer in the game.
-Have Murphy and Fmart fight or the open Corner OF spot.
-We cannot have Delgado back next year. We need to look to other available options, possibly Tex or through the trade market.
-Get Saltalamacchia from TEX. He’s very available
Reyes
Dejesus
Wright
Beltran
Tex/FA 1B
Hudson
Murphy/Fmart
Salty
Santana
Pelfrey
Garland/Lowe/Burnett
Maine
Niese
Krod
Cruz
Smith
Parnell
Stokes
Feliciano
Beimel
That’s a much more balanced lineup.
If you want to sign Dejesus, Tex, Hudson, Garland/Lowe/Burnett, Krod, and Cruz…our payroll is going to a lot like the Yankees’.
tex will want too much money and will most likley end up with the yanks or stay in LA.
Fmart is not ready imo so i would not consider him for OF(too few ab in the minors due to injury)
Murphy should fight for 2b spot in ST
Juan cruz would not be a bad idea to look at
Odog will be too expensive for what we get back plus he is injury prone.
Dejesus is good..idk is he a FA?
O-Dog would’ve taken a paycut to come to the Mets last year, but Omar went with Castillo instead.
Dejesus isn’t a FA, but he’s been on the trade block for a while now.
Cruz has been fantastic for the last 2 years.
Fmart played well this year in AA and Omar has always been intent on starting him in CitiField.
I think omar has changed his position on fmart in 09. I have read anywhere that odog would have taken a paycut or ANY player would have taken a paycutt to play for the mets. Odog was still in AZ if im not mistaken…we would have had to trade to get him and since we had all our eggs with santana…no chance on odog.
Jason Stark wrote it in his rumblings section onb ESPN earlier this year.
Although he wasn’t a free agent, he had targeted the Mets as a potential landing spot this year, and was willing to take a slight pay cut to be in a big market and on a contender. He felt that the likely hood of a NY Mets landing would be unlikely due to Castillo’s contract.
It seems like the Mets are going to dump Castillo, but Murphy looks like the heir apparent at second base. I could see a possiblity that Murphy defense is shoddy in the AFL and the Mets decide to get Hudson. I have a feeling the Murphy would be half way decent at second, and Omar being alright with that.
well i think it will boil down to $. We got some spot to fill other than 2b and if odog can come at a reasonable price because remember we will be paying for the majority of castillos contract to trade him id say bring him abord but if hes asking for the money that i heard he is asking for..not going to happen.
Why wouldn’t my last comment post, Matt?
Was it too critical of the Mets as an organization, or Omar Minaya, who should be getting fired today as the unskilled architect of this disaster of a roster, instead of getting an undeserved four-year extension?
Do you really think Matt is sitting in a room at SNY all day reading your comments before they post to make sure they are not overly critical of the Mets’ organization?
The season was lost in the offseason. The mets ran a poll to see what would be played in the seventh inning stretch. Rick Astley won and the mets refused to acknowledge it, running a subsequent poll instead of giving the prize to its rightful owner. The curse of the rickroll will haunt us until this mickey mouse organization owns up to it.
One thing that was overlooked was weak back of the lineup. If Jose is the spark of the Mets, I think the 6,7, and 8th hitters were the fuel that lit the fire. If you consider the fact that Tatis, Murphy, Evan, and Easley were hitting 6,7, and 8th, the Mets were winning. When Ramon Martinez was hitting well during past couple games, the Mets won. I think that the Mets lineup was way too top heavy. You can see that from the Cubs game. When Lou walked Delgado and Beltran, 6th and 7th hitter could not come up big.
Although Schneider was great defensively, he was pretty much an automatic out. As much as we all love Endy, he was a liability offensively. I think the Mets need go out there and get a veteran guy who can provide some pop in the back of the lineup
and i think anyone who suggests that endy shouldn’t be a part of this team needs to have their mets fan club membership revoked.
I love Endy as well, but how has he contributed offensively this year? He has made great defensive plays, but he’s only a defensive substitute.
Part of this core has to be removed, that being said, bye bye Delgado. Trade for a Adam LaRoche, sign Hudson for second base. He’s a great fielder and leader. Hopefully, Wright stops listening to Hojo and goes the other way more, that was a big reason for his slump. As much as this hurts, congrats to the Brewers and Philthies. If the Mets had 1/3 of the heart of these teams, we’d be singing a different tune. Hopefully the Brewers and Rays meet in the World Series.
Also, I got really sick when I saw Guillermo Mota leading the Champagne parade in Milwaukee. Hopefully, the bullpen is completely dismantled.
I bet it was real sweet for Mota.
you are right about delgado. next year he will be super-slumpilicious
You said that early in the year on Mets.com Mr El guapo, you were wrong, deal with it!
We need a proven leader (non-pitcher aka Johan) to compliment Beltran in the club house, Jose and David’s stats are great and I know they are very talented players but are still to show me anything in terms of true leadership and fortitude maybe its their age but come on boys it’s time to become men.
Yawn.
After collapsing down the stretch two years running, every major thinker and his mother suggests keeping the ‘good’ players and dumping the rest.
Sorry.
It’s time to clean house. The present incarnation of the Mets is tainted. No future success can ever wash away their stink.
Minaya & Manuel. Gone.
Wright. Gone.
Reyes. Gone.
Beltran. Gone.
Evans and Murph can stay.
The rest of the position players. Gone.
Santana. Keeper.
Pelfrey. Keeper.
Maine. Keeper.
The rest of the staff. Gone.
There is a time for logic and rationale thinking, and then there is a time for action. Just as WIllie had to go, Minaya and the present collection of players need to follow.
Reyes is simply not an intelligent player, and never will be.
Wright is simply not a leader of men, and never will be.
Beltran is about a good a centerfielder present in the game today, but NYC is too stressful for him.
Wright, Reyes and Beltran should be able to secure some decent major league talent. The gaps can be addressed through free agency.
No hard feelings, but it is what it is.
You’re a dumb a$$
Uh, good thing you’re not the GM….
Trading the core isn’t going to happen. Get past it.
Perhaps you need to get past your attachment to a group of players that are clearly not capable of becoming a team.
Sure, Reyes, Wright and Beltran are all talented, but so are plenty of other MLB players.
As well, it would be great if the ‘core’ position players could win together, but it hasn’t happened the past two years and it’s not going to happen, so “get past it”.
Santana, Maine and Pelfrey provide a solid Top 3 and a good foundation for rebuilding.
Dude, give me a name who is better than Reyes at SS or Wright at 3B or Beltran at CF?
And don’t tell me that other teams are dumb enough to give up their top prospect for them, because they are not stupid.
Like I said before, you’re a dumba$$
Because the failure was clearly the BP. Half those blown games, hell, half of Santana’s blown games, we would have won the division.
Mets were like second in run scored. Enough said.
All the leadership/guts/heart in the world weren’t making up for this BP.
cgpublic: You’re a joke of a fan.
No, sorry to say that the joke is the 2007/8 NY Mets, and the joke’s on us/you.
I’m sure Beltran, Reyes and Wright would love to have a fresh start with a new team.
The challenge will be finding free agents to come to NY. Then again, the Wilpons will have enough cash on hand for the greedy.
It’s going to be pretty funny once they’re traded and they share how happy they are in their new digs. Let’s hope they don’t bad-mouth NYC and Mets fans. I guess we can always boo them when they return to NY.
hahaha…umm…what? Did you make one logical point in that post?
How do you know what they want? IMO, I think they would rather have a fresh start with THIS team. Wright loves NY…has been a mets fan is whole life…why would he ditch them? These players are competitiors…they want nothing more than to prove to the league that we are better than this…that THEY can come through in the clutch…I dont think for one second they want to run away from their problems and turn their back on them.
It will not be a challenge for free agents…We have a new stadium to attract players…no longer an aged stadium…We have a top-3 SS in MLB, top 2-3B in MLB, the top SP in MLB, and the top CF in MLB….I think that would be enough for players to come to NY.
Logic?
On November 20, 2006, Lindstrom and Henry Owens were traded to the Florida Marlins in exchange for Jason Vargas and Adam Bostick.
Lindstrom’s fastball touches 100 mph and averages in the high 90’s.
Jason Vargas began the 2007 season with the Triple-A New Orleans Zephyrs, compiling a 2-3 record with a 5.30 ERA.
Yesterday, Matt Lindstrom stood tall on mound as the Mets wallowed in defeat.
What does Lindstrom has to do with anything?? What are you trying say?
hahaha lamo…I know, right Kistics?
He just pulled Lindstrom out of his a$$…further proves his illogical point.
I thought were discussing the the core of the Mets..not failed trades.
I agree.
I think a lot of fans are just reacting emotionally. No way they get rid of the 3 core offensive players. Wright and Reyes will be 25 and 26 to start next year (Utley and Rollins are 30 to start next year) and have extremely reasonable contracts. Beltran is arguably the best all around CF in the game.
I’m too drained to think about specific moves but my general thoughts are:
*Find right handed offensive bat to extend the lineup (probably in one of the corner OF positions)
*Stay away from Tex (look at the comments that some of the Braves made about him even before he was traded). If Beltran drives some of us nuts then I can only imagine how we’d react to Tex.
*Some of the BP is coming back (Smith as righty specialist and either Schow or Feliciano as lefty specialist) but getting both a setup man and a closer is going to be tough
*A lot of people are looking at Free Agents but some of the moves will occur through trade
*Stay away from older players. Even though we made it to 2006, this is really 3 years in a row where we have been burned by aging players and their injuries.
WOW and who do you say we bring in at 3rd, SS and CF?
Beltran I believe has come to terms with being in NY and has become the de facto leader of this team. Just get him a similair guy in his late 20’s early 30’s with leadership experience a watch this team turn it all around.
Wow, and I thought I was taking this hard!
Please have head examined as soon as possible.
Man, just when you think someone is making sense you realize that simply dismantling this team is not at all seeing the big picture. Trading players around like a fantasy team will only get you so far. I can’t believe nobody (other than my own genius baseball mind) can see that the solution is to dissolve the mets as an organization and bring the Dodgers back to Brooklyn. You think this current Mets team is tainted? The organization is tainted. Queens is tainted, the 7 train is tainted. You think you can simply shift players around to fix this? That’s a naive point of view. Bring back the Dodgers and we AUTOMATICALLY are in the playoffs already this year. I can’t believe the short-sighted posts that go up on this blog sometimes. Oh, and I’m being sarcastic.
You are a comlete moron, and a humongous J.A.
To me, this upcoming year is the year I want to see Wright and/or Reyes step up to the plate, and lead this team. Much like last year with Eli Manning vis a vis the Giants, I believe that this upcoming year is the do or die year for both of them.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
I agree with almost everything Matt said, except possibly Delgado, simply because i don’t think there is anything better out there this year. Don’t give TEX 7 years and 130M.
MY opinions, for what it worth:
-Keep delgado. but be prepared with a suitable back up plan)
-Keep reyes wright and beltran. Say what you want about beltran, but name a CF you would rather have with simlar defensive ability and an offensive power. he once again had a very solid statisical season
-let oliver walk . you can’t bank all the $$ he will want and cross your fingers you get the unhittable ollie instead of the wild ollie every 5th day. Find a plian, boring, reliable #3 or # 4 type
-Cut castilo and eat the 3 years if can’t trade him..it hurts financially but needs to be done
-find a 20HR, 85 rbi type RH bat for left field.
- get rid of the entire bullpen except joe smith (i might listen on stokes to as a 6th inning type guy). i don’t care how just do it. I’d rather have a bunch of kids who we don’t know what we will get than have the same cast of characters back.
-church and cather…i can go either way. if they are back, fine. If the positions can be upgraded, then that’s fine too.
-Don’t plug NIESE in as #5. let’s learn the yankees lesson on kennedy this year. a decent start or two does not mean you are ready.
I agree with most of your points, except Church. I think he should definitely remain in RF. I completely agree with letting Oliver walk. I like the guy, but like youm I can’t sit there with my fingers crossed every time he pitches. I think Ibanez would be a great fit for a two year deal to play LF. Also, I would keep Sanchez around. I think they should give him one more year to see if he can recover from that surgery on the shoulder. An upgrade at catcher would be nice, I don’t see it happening as their are other positions to address.
Delgado earned another shot IMO…but you’re right, be ready with a suitable backup plan.
Reyes, Wright, Beltran all need to stay…any thought of moving them should never be considered, its just not viable and only present now due to emotions.
Niese should earn his spot as #5…Whether he does that in ST or in April or May in AAA…so be it…just make him earn it.
Oliver is too inconsistent to be given 4 years for ~50-60$ million.
Parnell should be given a chance in the bullpen…or even as starter…
Show…Felicaino…and heilman need to be gone.
I think Sanchez should get one more shot due to potential.
Smith stays.
You want grit, hustle and heart?
Go out and acquire Aaron Rowand to play left field, and if Murph can’t play 2nd, get Orlando Hudson too.
Overpay and get K-Rod AND Fuentes.
The same Orlando Hudson who had injuries at the end of the year 2 years running, I believe the same injury both years for a team that didn’t exactly light it up late in the year in their own? Is that the guy?
we hace to think out of the box here.
To bring back this entire team less castillo, marlon, pedro and whatever other scrubs is a recipe for continued failure.
IF Delgado has value MOVE HIM ASAP>
and who do you replace him with? it’s one thing to say this person should be gone and that one should be gone but who do you replace them with? keep in mind the value of the player and the team budget, two things you have no idea about unless you’re a wilpon or another team’s gm.
I dont expect 35+/ 120+ out of CD last year. I think if we can get 25 / 90 (legue average) and some great defense and leadership out of First BAse we would be better off than if we keep Delgado.
should read
I dont expect 35+/ 120+ out of CD NEXT year.
You know what I blame this on the breakdown of? Society.
I can’t believe some of you people talking about dismantling this team. Do you believe a team minus Beltran, Wright or Reyes will even finish in 2nd in the NL East, lets not forget folks the Marlins and the Phils are going to compete with us for many years to come. Also dont sleep on the Nationals with that new ball park and a few key moves they could be a pain in the @ss in a few years.
What people fail and continue to fail to understand is that the failure of this team is not based on numbers…Sure Beltran puts up the best numbers of every centerfielder, but does that mean hes best suited for this team? the answer is NO. The team doesnt react and play efficiently with Beltran in the lineup
So who do you suggest we replace Beltran with that will turn the team in the right direction while providing gold glove defense and 5 tool offense? I hear Willie Mays is available.
Trade Beltran for a Reliever and a Prospect, while lowering the team’s payroll… put endy chavez in centerfield or find a replacement…sign manny….and sign krod
You’re another dumba$$
Kistics….if you really want me to write a page argument of why these moves are critical maybe i’ll go ahead and enlighten everyone…but thats just my summed up version of what needs to get done…if you really think the bullpen is the SOLUTION to this team…ur crazy
Do you really want a 36 (37 in May) year old toxic at times Manny on a 5yr/120+mil deal? Endy is a awesome bench player not a very effective everyday guy. I agree about K-Rod but Beltran is the best option in CF no question.
I didn’t say that the bullpen is the solution. In fact, I think signing KROD is a bad idea. I really think that it was the supporing cast was too weak. Guys like Schneider, Endy, Marlon, Easley, Castro, etc. The core of this team doesn’t get any better than Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Santana, and Pelf.
Airfeet, I think the anatomy in your username is mistaken.
Other than Santana, who has been more clutch and showed more heart than Beltran down the stretch?
I dont see how you can say Beltran showed heart…i dont really know what to say…unless you wanna trade Reyes or Wright which you really CANNOT do..who else are u going to trade other than Beltran. Now do you really think we can go into 09 with the same mentality of our core players and expect to get the job done next year?
Why do they even have to trade their core players? How can you blame Reyes, Wright, or Beltran for this year’s failure??
So you’d rather bring Manny and his baggage over Beltran?
Did you not see Beltran after his game winning hit and how he was pumped up and jumping up and down? Did you not hear what Beltran said after his grand slam to beat the Fish? He was the one who said that the Mets are the team to beat this year.
Im not BLAMING Beltran…all im saying is the mentality of this team has to change..some people say that the if we had a great bullpen all our problems would be solved…but that ISNT true…if we had a great bullpen we would have faced a Jeff Suppan in the playoffs and WOUDLNT have been able to scratch out more than 1 run…im 100 percent positive this lineup would have gone to sleep
What mentality?? How much more do you expect out of Beltran?? Who hit the game tying HR and game winning single??
This team did not have enough talent around the core. That was the problem and not the mentality of the team.
Its not about expecting Beltran to do anything…its just about changing the makeup of the team which people like you continue to fail to understand..its the chemisty NOT the numbers…its the fact that when Beltran hits a 2 run homer no one else does anything…or when Wright gets a big hit Beltran doesnt do anything to add…the team chokes as a team and no one steps up…yeah Beltran had a 2 run homer…but maybe Manny would have given us 2, 2 run homers that day when we really needed it…its more than just numbers man…its team chemistry
Beltran no heart? haha
The guy crushes his face in 2005 and plays the rest of the season when he shouldn’t have.
The guy crashes into the wall 10 days ago and STAys in the game and provides a big hit…not to mention plays the rest of the season providing a game winning hit and game tyeing home run.
Put Endy in CF? lmao…we are not trying to become the Expos here…we are trying to win baseball games.
And while the defense MAy be a wash between the two…there is a SIGNIFICANT drop off in offensive production.
Chemistry? What about the leadership Beltran has provided two rookie infielders playing in the OF for the first time ever….OR.. taking Reyes and Wright under his wing and teaching them how to be a professional.
you dont know anything about leadership Beltrans provided them considering you havent tlaked or been around any of the players..and YES i agree that Beltran has showed heart and has tried very hard and has even had some clutch hits…but we cant throw out hte same team of core guys from 06 and 07
To suggest we improve chemitsry by breaking up a core of players that have played TOGETHER for the last 4 years…thats just idiotic and panic-ridden.
You improve the players around them…You bring in a veteran hitter (maybe Manny) in ADDITION.. You don’t create more holes to fill…you fix the ones we have.
All they need is a proven leader in the club house to compliment Beltran, someone like a Justin Morneau. If they bring in that type of player the entire team attitude would change drastically.
I dont think YOU know about leadership with Beltran…I DO know from what i’ve read the past 4 years, that Beltran has opened his arms to Wright, Reyes, and the other young players in terms of how to carry yourself, weight-lifting programs, fitness, and toughness…He has proven by example…playing through pain.
You may know more however, if you in fact deal with them on a personal daily basis.
As I said over and over, the problem doesn’t lie with the core of the team. It’s the supporting cast that needs change. The Mets need guys that can give you 20-25 HRs and 80-90 RBIs and hits .300. Church and Alou was supposed to be that type of hitters. If the Mets had healthy Church and Alou plus a real bullpen, they would’ve ran away with the division.
Team Chemistry is overrated. When you win, your chemistry is great, when you lose, your chemistry stinks. Simple as that.
Listen im all for keeping Beltran IF we can still get another big time bat for this lineup…but idk if we have the money to do that especially if we wanna sign KROD..If we can get MANNY and KEEP Beltran lets do it…but if we can afford it Beltran has to go
but we can’t afford to let Beltran to go…thats not reasonable and it is panic and emotionally driven.
He is the best CF in MLB…not to mention the best Value at CF in todays market…We weaken our team if we have find a replacement in CF…I think Omar knows this…we need more bats, not switch one bat for another.
Why can’t we afford it? we are not marlins…we have money coming off the books…no more alou ($8million)…no more Pedro ($15 million)…we have money to spend…and I think we can afford a #3-4 SP AND a top notch closer…and at this point…we HAVE to spend the money.
Airfleet has a thing for Manny. He’s stuck on him. And one reason he keeps advocating trading Beltran is because he knows there’s no room in the budget for two outfielders making big money. So in his mind, he’s clearing up payroll to fit Manny in.
But to say that the team needs leadership and then to advocate Manny is silly. Manny is a great hitter but is not known for any leadership. Is leadership throwing a team employee to the floor in an impetuous fit? Taking yourself out of critical games? Or whining about a current contract he himself signed?
I’ll take Beltran’s real leadership over the non-existent leadership of Manny.
hot stove league always starts day one.
DelGado will be back for one year. Zero question about that.
second base won’t have Luis or Easley as starters. Murphy? unlikely so I look to Hudson if he check out physically.
Mets will add ONE starter and give Niese a full shot at the 5 spot.
the bullpen obviously gets completely redone other than Smith. Stokes and Ayala can stay but the rest have to go.
What I would do:
Out: show, heilman, feliciano, castillo[whatever it takes], endy, anderson, Wags[due to INJ]
In: lowe/garland/garcia/colon, Bradley[or another consistant/power hitter for LF]
Brign Back: Ollie, Delgado[team option], Ayala[showed grit], Stokes, easley, Tatis
09 Team:
1-Reyes, ss
2-Beltran, CF
3-Murphy, 2b
4-Wright, 3b
5-Delgado, 1b
6-LF Free Agent
7-Church, RF
8-Schneid, C
Bench-Castro, A. Reyes[defense], Tatis, Easley, Pagan
SP-Johan, Pelf, Ollie, Lowe/Garland/garcia/colon, Niese[effective enough]
RP-smith, sanchez, ayala, stokes, +2 new arms
Closer-MAINE…when healthy, can only go 5IP, he has the attitude and the stuff, this may be a necessary evil. Similar to Izzy & Papelbon w/stuff + tenacity
On the Farm:
-Evans plays OF and works on his power to help by midseason
-Carp remains in obscurity or gets traded
-Parnell starts in AAA and MUST develop 2 more pitches
-Kunz ready by midseason, hopefully gets his 2nd pitch down
-FMart gets 1 more year to improve and show he can stay healthy
Out: show, heilman, feliciano, castillo[whatever it takes], endy, anderson, Wags[due to INJ]
All worthless and will bring zero value except for castilo who will cost us to move him. Maybe a team would take a package of castillo and heilman for nothing. maybe.
Their stars played like stars. This is Omar’s fault for not building a supporting cast. Reyes, Wright, Delgado, Beltran, and Johan all did their jobs admirably.
These were no-brainer players for Omar to sign for top dollar or trade top talent for. Any of us would have done the same in his shoes.
With a blank checkbook, it should’ve been Omar’s job to build the supporting cast, and that’s where he failed miserably.
Alou and Castillo did not finish the season, and were looked to as hopefully key contributors. Omar paid them well.
Omar traded Lastings for Ryan Church (who has peaked in his late 20s) and the anemic Brian Schneider, who is a bottom of the barrel catcher. Lastings slapped up 14 and 29 on pure talent this year and will only get better.
Omar did not build a bullpen worth a damn. Waiver pickups and callups were counted on over and over down the stretch, and predictably failed.
Omar needs to get some bullpen guys who can strike a guy out when they have to. Not a big name closer like K-Rod, but a bunch of reliable, strong arms.
We’re set at second base, Church will be in right, so we need a solid bat.
Resign Ollie.
No way do I resign Ollie.
Id rather go after Lowe and let one of the kids compete for the 5th start.
At 26 Ollie is one of our young players, and he’s younger and less injury prone than most of the guys on the market. Sign him and go out and sign someone in free agency, and then try and use one of our young pitchers, which is basically Niese, either in the bullpen or as trade bait to fill a hole someone else. It doesn’t make sense to let him walk and then fill his spot, plus Pedro’s spot, with either two guys who are older and will cost the same and give basically the same production or 1 guy who’s older will cost the same and give basically the same production and an unknown.
was this team picked to win the NL east before the season started?
9/10 analysts said yes, the Mets were the team to beat
Omar did his job then. What happened on the field was a result of both the players and coaching
Agreed that Omar should have done more during the season…but I can understand why he didn’t want to trade the few MLB ready prospects we had for RP, who are usually only as good as their last game.
you could also say that losing pedro, maine, wags, pagan, tatis, easley, schnieder, church, castillo, and sanchez for extended periods of time killed this team…is that Omars fault too that no one can stay healthy?
Or, how about that delgado did show up for the 1st half… or wright and beltran disappear in the clutch, or that reyes stopped playing in Sept
Quit trying to blame 1 guy…it took a whole team of ineptness to screw this up.
Im glad they are bringing Manuel and Omar back..they both do very well at their jobs and get the most out of what they have to work with.
I would like to see some coaching changes…aguayo has to go, as does “the windmill” Alomar[does he even do anything?]…Hojo should go manage AA/AAA and get some experience-he didnt do much as batting coach, and Obbie should move to 3b or bench in an expanded role….you can tell the players respond to him, he seems to get pretty involved
That’s a good point in some ways. Willie really was a big problem. However, Omar made a good team on paper, but his reliance on old players was what really killed us (and subsequently, our bullpen did)
You don’t need to be Bill James to understand that if you hire aging players on the decline to multi-year contracts (i.e. Pedro, ElDuque, Alou, Easley, etc.) , injuries are going to come back to haunt you.
If Delgado stays for another year, I would question Murphy at 2B. I like Murphy, but with Delgado at 1B for another year, we would need a 2B will a lot of range.
I think the Mets should pick up the option on Delgado and then try to move him to an American league club. He’s done. I think this team should be build around Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Santana, Pelfrey and Maine. I do not want to see Castillo (an Omar disaster/one of the many), the current bullpen (except for Joe Smith), Marlon Anderson, Damien Easley, or Pedro Martinez (sorry Pedro, but its time for you to retire) back here next year. Time to move on. I love Endy Chavez and Daniel Murphy and they deserve a place on the team next year. I am NOT a fan of Jerry Manuel and think this team needs an adrenlin rush in the form of Bobby V or Wally B!! Manuel is part of the losing mindset on this team. And, I’m sorry, but I don’t get the vote of confidence Omar is getting here. He created this mess and should be held accountable. Look at all the relievers he traded away for nothing. He has always had the philosophy that relievers are a dime a dozen and look where that got us. AND the Wilpons should be furious - not making excuses for this team or the manager!! They should be putting everyone on notice that winning is everything and the only thing that matters. PERIOD!!
I agree, though I dont hare Manuel, I am not for him.
For one, and most glaring, I did not agree with the new fangled line up use on Saturday and Sunday.
It left the mets with zero power after the 4 slot. Delgado is not a 3 slot hitter.
I do agree with moving moving Wright back to 5th though, and getting a true 3 slot hitter.
For a losing mindset Manuel sure had a winning record!
“I think the Mets should pick up the option on Delgado and then try to move him to an American league club. He’s done”
some of you people are just clueless. Delgado hit 270, 38 hrs 115 rbis, best season as a met.
And hes done? ROTFLMAO.
and who replaces him? NIck Evans?
Potentially, but definitely not this year. Delgado comes back.
chances of Delgado getting close to those numbers next year are next to zero
At this point I wouldn’t mind Manny, though Boras will be asking a stupid amount even for a 2 year deal.
At a minimum we offer Ollie arb. We will get some nice compensation picks if he is not resigned by us.
This team desperately needs a new Core player IN and an old Core player OUT…it HAS to be done if this team ever expects to win a world series…its a SERIOUS problem that no one seems to understand
We understand, we just think it’s wrong. Who did the Dodgers, or the Cubs get rid of to turn their misfortunes around? No one, they just brought in better players.
Speaking of the Cubs, what’s impressive with that team is consitency and OBP. Gina I know you’re a big Dunn fan, but the proof is in the pudding. He did nothing with AZ. Give me guys like Mark DeRosa over Dunn any day of the week.
I don’t understand how you can praise the cubs for their obp and then say you’d rather have Mark Derosa than Dunn.
I don’t understand why so many people think getting rid of Reyes and Wright and Beltran is going to solve our problems. The Cubs underachieved for years with Lee and Ramirez and Zambrano and Lily, among other and did they get rid of them? No they went out and got better players. Rather than trying to blame the problem on things like guts and heart why not just go out and get better players to surround our core?
It’s not like our team is flawless or something and we failed, or that the core is failing to perform. There are plenty of issues on this team, porous defense, so-so line-up after the first 5 hitters ,the lack of consistent clean-up hitter, and even when Delgado got hot he was pretty much the only power bat we had. Bullpen obviously, and issues with the rotation all year. Mana-gerial mistakes. The list of things that could be improved is endless. And it has nothing to with Beltran and Wright and Reyes not having heart or some crap.
Saying we need to clean house would only make sense if you want to go into full on rebuilding mode, not if you think we can get rid of guys like Reyes, Wright and Beltran and still compete next year or even 09.
Totally agree. The Cubs have the right complentary ingredients to support their core guys and the bullpen with Howry, Marmol, and Wood was solid all year.
We had our Marmol, but sadly Cuban Food killed his career.
And seriously what team has two players injured in two separate cab incidents?
I agree 100%. Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Santana and Pelfrey are the untouchables from the ML roster. That’s a pretty good young core.
As far as Niese, Parnell, Murphy, Evans, etc. from the farm, not sure yet, although all have shown flashes.
The real problem is going to be all of the holes.
3 rotation spots, LF, 2B, 3,4 or 5 bullpen spots., bench.
I agree, the core of this team was not a problem. Sure, they has their ups and downs, but so does every other team in baseball. But the Phillies have guys like Werth and Victorino. Cubs have guys like DeRosa, Soto and Theriot. the Mets don’t have anybody outside of their core to step up consistantly. They need guys who can give you 20 HRs and 80+ RBIs with .300 average. Alou and Church were supposed to be those guys, but we all know what happend. Schneider and Castillo/Easley isn’t going to get it done.
perfect, gina, perfect
Gina i agree to some extent..but hte problem is its not that easy to just go out there and find solid compliments…in order to find a big time compliment you need to give up talent…and another thing is that you gotta think of the mentality of this team now that theyve collapsed for 2 straight years..are they gonna be able to handle hte pressure next year when they are gonna be aksed about collapsing for a third straight year? A new core player would be much less concerned about it
You can’t just get a new core. You can blow up this core and rebuild from 2 or 3 years. Or we can keep this core and compete. The idea that we can move guys from this core and get deals that would make us better for next year just doesn’t make sense.
So it’s easy to just go out there and blow up your core to find a new solution?
Airfeet, can you name ONE reasonable name out there to replace Beltran? AND can you honestly say that that name can bring better team chemistry?
Matt…
If/when you post about the post game ceremony, I think it was a bad job by the Mets to not even mention Bobby Valentine’s name… I think some folks in managmeent might have fears a huge roar from the corwd at the mention of Bobby V. who would hav gotten this gutless bunch of choking losers into the postseason or literally tore the clubhouse down…
Disgraceful showing. Wanted to spit on the floor of my own home yesterday. Always gonna root for the Mets and spend thousands on tickets and games and jerseys but they don’t deserve it. Whoever we pick up in the offseason please, please purge the lifeless bums who killed this season. Heilman, schoenweiss, sanchez, aguayo, I hope you spend the rest of your careers in the minors being managed by Willie, where you all belong. Makes me wish for the days of Dallas Green and Vince Coleman. At least we knew we were gonna lose then and didn’t get our hopes up.
Get some quality arms in the bullpen next year..
Get Planet ManRam to play left field. The guy batted AVG 396 17 homeruns and 53 RBI’s in 187 AB this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ManRam is considered to be the Greatest Hitter of All time… Sign him for a 3 year deal and put him in the clean up spot.
The guy can single handidly carry a team on his back.
1 Jose Reyes
2 Daniel Murphy
3 David Wright
4 Manny Ramirez
5 Carlos Beltran
6 Carlos Delgado
7 Fernando Tatis
8.Catcher
That is a lethal lineup… Can score mad runs with that lineup.
Trade Church since the guy has some kind of trade value for bullpen help.
Starting rotation:
1 Santana
2.Pelfrey
3 Burnett
4 Maine
5 Neise or Someone Else
Bench players that should return
Easly, Chavez, Castro
Bullpen: Everybody goes except maybe except for Joe Smith..
And Parnell.
Burnett isn’t hitting the market, and Manny is definitely not the answer IMO, not for the contract he wants and not with the media frenzy he’ll bring.
you dont know what ur talking about….or you a female or a male?
Gina,
I agree that Manny is not the answer in LF. I say this witha heavy heart because his bat will make the Mets line-up unstoppable. His contract is going to be an albotrose after year two, he is a club house cancer, and a defensive black hole.
I really do not know what the answer is in LF. I think he could use 25-30 hrs and a .270 average with a solid glove. Who that is can be anybodies guess.
If Murphy can play a decent second base then he is a solid option, eventhough O-dog would be my dream pickup. O-dog and a Castillo dump would be too much of a financial commitment at second base.
Let Ollie walk, coupled with the Pedro, Alou, and El-duque money and try to get C.C. If you can’t, then Try to over do it with the bullpen with K-rod and Fuentes. I am not crazy about K-Rod though.
The lack of talent in this FA year will really test Omar’s acumen in evaluating talent. I think there are a few hidden gems, but I can’t tell them apart from the busts. That’s why Omar gets paid.
I don’t remember anyone ever calling Manny the greatest hitter of all time. Great, but not even approaching the greatest.
I believe Manny called Manny the greatest hitter of all time
To be fair some have called him one of the greatest RH hitters of all time.
But the media is awash with hyperbole.
the only way to make up for it jose and david is to have great years next year and lead this team to the playoffs.
may i suggest having a 20 game-lead on september 17
Here is a good question…
Why dont the Mets employ a bullpen on 3-4 starting pitchers, and convert them???
We seriously had all Loogy/Roogy’s this year…starters can pitch to both sides of the plate..
we need to seriously consider a change in philosophy
GO POWER and VERSATILITY in the pen…ASAP
look at the Cubbies…they have a few former starters in the BP and they can throw hit….thats a nasty BP
I think they have it right…hope Omar is taking notes!
IF Parnell and Kunz can develop a 2nd pitch…thats the way to go,
same with Maine as the closer
Stokes and Ayala throw heat too…would give them a look to bring them back
This season was a nightmare after the SP left the game
we cant do that again next year
lol There not going to pick up Delgado’s option and trade him come on get real …. they will either pick it up or they won’t pick it up. I really don’t think there going to pay threw the nose for Ollie. I just hope they don’t try to replace him with Sheets or AJ … they will have injury problems.
People are saying that F-Rod will cost to much and want like 5-7 year contract. If you think about it, what team is going to be in the F-Rod hunt? What big market teams? The yanks, red sox’s, Phillies, blue jays, white sox’s, dodgers, and cubs won’t be in it.
The only teams that I can see maybe being in the F-Rod hunt but I cant see them shelling out the money is the rangers and the cardinals. That will help the Mets due to the fact that I don’t think the money is the issue with K-Rod … I think it is the years.
I mean face it the hitting did not show up the last three games but the mets were living on borrowed time with that bullpen. They need a closer and an eighth inning man who is good to the point where if the closer goes down he can fill in like Broxton in LA, Sheilds in LA, and plenty of others out there.
We need some young fireball RP’s I had enough of these junk b all RP’s the Mets have who if there control is off that is it they don’t stand a chance. GET RP THAT CAN STRIKE GUYS OUT!!!!
While I do not like him, I think this team does need Manny Ramirez… Seriously… There is a man who does nothign but hit… NOTHING but hit…
I think we see the Ryan Church as he is… I don’t want Church here, we need new catchers and an obviously overhauled bullpen. No Oliver Perez for more than 10 Mil per. I’ll take my chances getting some 3 and 4 starers via trade if I can…
SINKERBALL pitchers please…
Good Observation… Church is nothing special.. He’s not that good… The guy couldn’t get full playing time in Washington… The guy has less than 50 homeruns in 5 major league seasons and the guy is 30… He’s got to go…
Not to glorify the guy, but he only had 400 AB in Washington. They never let him bat against lefties. Everyone is quick to bash the guy, but the reality is that he shouldn’t have been our starting right fielder. The injury to Tatis forced our hand and he had to start every day.
Don’t forget that prior to the 2nd concussion he was our best hitter by far.
OK guys name ONE RIGHT HANDED BATTER who has better numbers than Planet Manram in the past 50 years… NOBODY.. The guy is an all time great……………….. Fuhgetibouit…… The guy is just an incredible hitter….
I think he plays third base in the Bronx
Get Mark DeRosa from Chicago…he’s scrappy and can play 2B and the OF…
Yeah Mets need hard nose type winning players… Derosa is a good player… Also wouldn’t mind getting Craig Counsell or someone similar in his stature to put in the bench…. About half of 2008 NY Mets should not come back and here’s the list.
Entire Bullpen except for Joe Smith
Pedro Martinez
Ollie Perez
Ryan Church
Marlon Anderson
Argenis Reyes
Luis Castillo
Moise Alou
Trot Nixon
Brandon Knight
Robinson Cancel
Trade, Boot, Release I don’t care how it gets done those players mentioned above should Never Ever be back with the Mets….
Counsel’s 38.
If you can get Counsel for really cheap he can still do alot of things off the bench for you… Spot start in the infield, pinch run… The fact is the guy is a proven winner… I want winners on this team.. Instead of Marlon Anderson, Chris Woody Woodick Woodward, and here’s the worst Joe Mcewing we’ve been getting since 2000…
That’s a good point. Counsel has proven year after year that he can get hits in key situations.
Why should Church leave again? Is it because he missed two + months due to his 2nd concussion and couldn’t find his swing? Cut the guy some slack. He had 60 AB’s to finish the season and he struggled. He was our best player before the concussion.
Are you serious??? Have you seen Church’s lifetime stats??? The guy couldn’t get full playing time with the Nats and when he did he put up 270 15hr 70rbis.
The guy is 30 years old… He’s got a slow bat and by the way isn’t RF a power hitting position?? Church has 47 career homeruns in 5 major league seasons.
Stop with this 2 months he was the best player on the team… Benny Agbayani was the greatest ballplayer alive in 99 and Kevin Maas was the second coming of Lou Gherig for 2 months… Give me a break.. Church isn’t good at all.. Go look his stats up at mlb.com and learn something….
To be blunt, get your head out of your rear and look up some non RBI or HR stats. The guy has a career line of .277/.352/.471 and thats without the Nat’s letting him hit full time.
He absolutely destroys righties, and didn’t make it up to the majors until age 26 because he was buried in the Indians farm system. Where he hit a line of … wait for it… .290/.374/.503
HR’s and RBI’s are not everything. He was playing in a hitters park, and came to another hitters park. I’ll take a .500 slugging lefty who kills righties any day of the week. Give him a potent lineup and a full season and you’d see your 25-30 HR 80-100 RBI’s like you dream of.
The bottom line is there will be lots of moves. You even had Gay, Keith and Ron saying that in there farewell sign off that hey this team has done this 2 years in a row an overhaul of the roster is necessary. I really think at least half of this team will be different next year. Whole new bullpen, 2 new SP, new 2nd baseman, new LF, maybe new C and RF.
Who knows what will happen but I know there will be lots of changes.
Was the name mis-spelled on purpose?
Apparently you don’t Mr. Gary Cohen?
Delgado should go, plain and simple. He had a fantastic year, but he’s the symbol for the bad attitude in this team. He’s a poor role model for Reyes and Wright. He played when he wanted to,that’s a bad role model.
Last year he said the Mets were getting bored, so they decided to play .500 ball. This year he didn’t feel it neceesary to bust his behind for Willie, cause he was unhappy.
This isn’t a formula for sucess. We need guys who think winning is sacred and all else is secondary. Delgado has never been that guy, no many how many towering dingers he hits.
dude, reyes and wright aren’t in their teens they’re both 25 and 26, respectively. this talk of role models needs to go, they’re grown men now and can be trusted to weed out the bad influence and the good on their own.
They are old enough, but I still think Reyes is impressionable and immature. Watching him and Delgado dancing excessively, and hearing Reyes is out in the clubs late at night during a pennant chase aren’t encouraging.
Forget role models. When you see a season, hall of fame veteran on your team playing when he wants to, well that doesn’t send a good msg to any of the other 24 guys.
It’s an overall do anything to win attitude and this team doesn’t have it. The Yankees had it in 96-01
Does anyone else realize how bad our bench was this year? It was worse than ‘07. Anderson hit like .200, Easily not too got as a PH, Robinson Cancel? Who did we ever have outside of Marlon and Endy?
I’d suggest going out to sign Juan Rivera. The guy is a pure hitter and before his broken femur was really breaking out. I’d avoid signing Manny so we cna put money into a good starter. A Lowe, maybe re-sign Ollie, or skip them both and go for Sabathia.
Yeah, they shoulda got Rivera mid way thru the season. The Angels have like 12 decent outfielders, it shouldn’t be too hard to get him, maybe straight up for Heilman?
They are more likely to give him to us for free if we promise to NOT send them Heilman.
Rivera’s actually a free agent. Coming off a bad year the Mets should have no problems getting him.
I would platoon Schenider and Cancel next year. Give Robinson a chance. Trade Castro for a decent middle reliever. Someone will be desperate for a catcher with pop. He is an automatic double play, always hurt, not in shape.
How about putting Wright on 2nd Base, putting Murphy on 3rd base, both David and Murphy can throw the ball fast, wright can problably turn double plays faster then anyone else. then we can shop for an out fielder on left. But the most important Key is getting a Consistence Reliever!
well Murphy is going to be playing winter ball at 2nd base, there hope is he can play it halway decent so he can be there 2nd baseman next year …. I think that is the plan
Players who should not be back with the 09 Mets:
Entire Bullpen except for Joe Smith
Pedro Martinez
Ollie Perez
Ryan Church
Marlon Anderson
Argenis Reyes
Luis Castillo
Moise Alou
Trot Nixon
Brandon Knight
Robinson Cancel
Trade, Boot, Release I don’t care how it gets done those players mentioned above should Never Ever be back with the Mets….
By the Ways Hojo and Agouyo needs to be Fired also…
If Jerry comes back let him pick his own staff and give him a year and see what he can do….
Why not Cancel? The guy had clutch hits and good AB’s in very limited opportunities. He should be platooning next yr.
That’s a joke right? He had 1 clutch hit. He had a total of 12 hits for us all season. and batted .245 with a .288 OBP.
Some of you guys on this board need to stop making your decisions based on the last 10 games.
probably the same guys that thought Argenis Reyes is the second coming of Joe Morgan….
No, Awful Reyes is no good. Cancel is deserving of more At bats.
Cancel is a 32 year old career minor leaguer with 98 career plate appearances.
Overall: .218 / .263 / .347
15 Seasons in the minors, thats right 15:
.264 / .329 / .379
I’d bring Lo Duca back before I’d start him.
Give Church a little slack, he was their best player for the first two months of the season. He deserves a chance to ‘clear his head’
IMO this team does not need superstars to fix the problem, they need some complementary players that are actually “complementary”
1) Murphy stays and platoons with a veteran defensive minded RH 2B that can do some situational hitting. Easley may still be that guy, because younger options probably won’t want to share duties. Mark Loretta perhaps?
2) LF - Forget about Manny, Dunn, Burrell or any other over priced player. Manny’s contract length demands will make him an albatross in 2 years that we can’t get rid of. Tatis was a nice surprise but they need an upgrade here, and there’s not a lot available in FA. Someone mentioned Rowand earlier, and frankly I think the Giants would love to get out from under his contract. If you can send Heilman (who they would use as a SP), and Nick Evans to SF for Rowand to play LF, I make that move, and I think SF would as well. If Rowand is protected in a lineup, he can do a lot more damage and you just gave yourself the best defensive outfield in baseball.
3) Bullpen - Spend most of your money here on a closer. Someone earlier mentioned bringing in some SPs and converting them to the pen. I like this idea as long as they are younger guys. Personally I think ayala can be a decent 7th inning guy, so I’m inclined to tender an offer. but we absolutely need some depth with guys who can pitch a full inning. There should be some major turnover here.
Sorry
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Rowand
Church
Murphy/Easley/Reyes
Schneider/Castro
P
Santana
Pelf
Ollie (resign)
Maine
Veteran innings eater
FA Closer
?
Howry
Ayala
Smith
Sanchez
?
you are just TOTALLY wrong…unless u want another 3rd straight collapse….i mean wasnt CHURCH supposed to be the role player that ur talking about…last year that was our thought process and look how we winded up this year..stil stranding runners in 3rd base for 3 consecutive innings…not scoring runs off scot olsen…same old same old
You just described only the last 3 weeks of the season there. Nice.
Airfeet, I’ve read a few of your reactionary comments and couldn’t disagree with you more. You don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. Clearly Church’s issues were with his post-concussion time off. The last few weeks of the season are a pretty limited sample to use as evidence against RC.
I like the idea of Rowand in LF. His year may be more indicative of him being on a crappy team on the West Coast than of a trend.
Thank you, finally someone else who isn’t crucifying Church.
1) I like the Platoon for Murphy. He can start in the OF if necessary and play 2B. The veteran will be there to ease him into the position and they’ll platoon for the most part until Murphy proves this year was not a fluke. He was attrocious in September offensively and defensively(excluding his triple). Don’t get me wrong, I think the kid is great, He just needs more experience.
2) Rowand would be nice, but I love love a Juan Rivera signing. He went down with a broken femur in 2007 and missed all but a month. This year the Angels refused to make room for him by signing Hunter when they already had Vlad, Anderson, and Matthews. Rivera had his best year in 06 before the injury, slugging over .500 and batting over .300. But if nothing is out there, we might be forced to go for Manny.
3) I’d take this a step further, bullpen and bench overhaul. Keep Feliciano, Smith, Parnel, Kunz. Keep Stokes or Figueroa to be a mop-up (similar to Darren Oliver in 06). Trade Heilman, Sanchez, cut Schoe, Rincon, Ayala (they hit .307 off him!). Take a shot on some young guys and bring in proven veterans via FA.
For the Bench, dump Anderson, Martniez, send Argenis down, Keep Tatis, Easley, Endy.
I like Rowand as well, but how about Casey Blake? He’s another scrappy type of player that has real good reputation amongst the teammates and can play a lot of positions.
I think Church can be valuable, but Omar should have a back up plan just in case Church struggles against lefties.
The Mets need 6th and 7th hitters who can hit 20+ HRs, 80-90 RBIs, hit .300 and 30+ Doubles.
And obviously the bullpen help
I’ve heard that Blake is going to be resigned, but I do like him.
Totally agree with the list, but do have some reservations about Church. He was our best player until he got that concussion. They’ll need to evaluate him over the off-season. If he can pull it together again, you’ll want him around.
Church is an excellent one year stop Gap until F-mart or Holiday becomes a free agent.
I agree with that. I think he only has 1 more year on his contract anyway.
Manny is the guy we need. It does a few things for us. It lets us experiment with Murph at 2B. If that doesn’t work out, we can slide him over to 1B after Delgado’s contract is up at the end of 2009 (barring a trade of Wright for another ace, in which case Murph could play 3B). Also, if Delgado’s numbers decline considerably, the offense will still be there. Manny is showing no signs of slowing down. He is still a beast.
Like the name, and I like Manny, but at what cost? The Mets aren’t clearing out a lot of contract. Remember Wright and Reyes both get big raises. I just don’t think the Wilpons will want to spend a ton on an aging superstar that will be asking for more years than they’ll be willing to give.
Has there ever been a more lethal Right Handed batter in the game of Baseball the past 50 years than Manny Ramirez???
Look at his numbers over his career.
Only Hank Aaron I say in his prime could hit with Planet Manram.
The guy had 53 Rbi’s in 187 at bats this season… The guy is just a Monster……
I can’t believe no one has commented on how, not ONE SINGLE current Met was to be seen during yesterdays closing ceremony. They disappeared into the clubhouse not to be seen until 2009. That was very sad and in poor taste. I figured ownership would force them to at least take a bow or tip their hats to the crowd one last time at Shea inviting us to countinue to support them @ Citi in ‘09. I will never forgive them for that.
It would have been a disgrace if one of those bums showed their faces in front of real Met legends.
I think they would have been booed off the field if they came out.
For what it’s worth I don’t really think we can say anything definitive about Church one way or another at this point. I would say he’s not someone we should go into next season relying heavily on with no sort of back up plan, but I would say the same thing about Delgado and Maine so I’m not sure how we can manage to fill all our holes and account for that.
are you a guy or a girl
True, I want to rely on Church, his numbers are good historically, but we need a backup plan. It’s doable with Church with a few FA outfielders out there, but Delgado is a hard sell for a backup. If he fails we won’t get anyone near his caliber as a backup plan unless we throw a lot of money at Tex, which I hope we don’t. Maine worries me - they might want to think about an extended Spring training for him after the surgery.
I think C.C. might be the answer guys. Let O.P. walk. With the money saved on Alou, Pedro, El Duque, and Wagner next year, I think we will have the Money for C.C. He want to go to the West coat so it will be a hard sell. I think we should at least look into the possibilty. Forget K-rod, and sign Fuentes, and a few other capable bullpen arms. I think the Bullpen is a priority, but a starter like C.C. really solidifies the rotation.
Johan
C.C.
Pelf
Garland/Garcia/Lowe
Maine
well said Gina, Church and Maine are big question marks and should be treated as such! I wouldnt mind bringing back Delgado for a year but as long as there is a few credible FA first basemen available in 2010. If there isnt, offer 5 or 6 year contract for Tex. Sign Lowe(solid high innings starter) and Garland/Ollie. Lohse wouldve been an ideal #4 starter but he is close to agreeing to a 4 year extension with the Cards. Stay away from Burnett and Sheets…both are wayyyy too injury prone. Dont be fooled by their walk year statistics. I would offer a short contract to Manny as well because he destroys pitching and would be a huge step in lengthening the batting lineup.
I like that idea, but Manny won’t take a short contract. He’s looking long term and wants to finish off his career with his next team. I like the Lowe signing and would definitely go for a Randy Wolf type pitcher who can be a solid 5.
David Wright and Jose Reyes do not have the current mental makeup to play in clutch september baseball. So how do we fix this? IMO the only way would be to get a new cast of coaches. Without that look for Wright to continue to come up short in tight spots. We owe it to these guys to get them the correct coaching. They need to be pushed. Manuel is not the answer.. A good guy, but not the answer..
Did you see Wright’s numbers in 2007 for the month of September? He was the only player who performed.
I like Manuel, but I don’t know about our bullpen or hitting coach. Hojo isn’t doing it, and while I think the guy is great, it might be time to look on the market for a historically successful guy. There has to be someone out there that can reach this team. I like Wartham and Oberkfel - but we might want to look outside of HoJo and our awful 3rd base coach.
Oh, and i would get a couple of hard throwing relievers through non-tender or trades. Omar had way too many relievers that threw 88-92 miles an hour. A bullpen should have a variety of different looks as far as velocity and pitch selection.
please look at the guys numbers…he struggled a bit this year with RISP…but please stop making yourself sound completely ignorant about what “actually” happened as compared to what you “think” happened..oh and just in case you cant figure is out….he batted 340/416/577 with 5 2b, 6hr, 21 rbi, 19r, and 13bb….so please lets talk about the REAL issue here…pitiching, pitching, pitching and most specifically the bullpen and remember one other thing, we did win a couple of year ago with the same “core” players…but please tell me what the difference between that team and the team the past two years? ummmm…its the BULLPENN
those were is september numbers
Sure a solid bullpen would of allowed this team to coast into the playoffs. But clutch hitting in September would of gotten them in also. David Wright could of single handedly got this team into the playoffs with a fly ball.. 3-0 count runner on third base, no outs and he folded. He does not come through in those situations. He losses his plate discipline. Yesterdays ninth inning at bat was another example of his tightness in these spots. He doesn’t handle pressure very well and we need someone to teach him how.
We “won” a couple years ago.
REALLY?
I remember Wright Reyes stinking the joint up in the LCS, which we lost to an inferior team.
How sad that you’re making 2006 the “golden year” now
Its all about leadership
I think you cant give up the core of the Mets moving into the new stadium, thats Wright, Reyes, Santana, Beltran, Maine, Pelfry those guys gutted it out, the others as much as there is some attachment especially to say a Delgado it’s somewhat time to move on. Make a big statement of Citi Field bring in Manny, Tex and K-Rod, give Citi in the begining what Shea should have had in the end
What did we hear all day yesterday from our METS greats?
This site sux,,, All my post get swallowed up by the post monster
Tom Seaver talked extensively about Leadership yesterday. He told us whats wrong with this generation of Mets players. They lack a leader to teach them how to play. How to win and how to succeed in New York.
Very simple fix for this Mets team–get a BULLPEN. That’s it. It doesn’t matter if you change a single other player. If this years’s team had a decent bullpen–not even a great one, mind you, just DECENT–they win the division by 10 games.
Same problem for two years now. Every single move made and dollar spent in the offseason should go to fixing it.
Let’s not get crazy. They need to spend SOME money replacing Pedro and Ollie (if indeed they don’t resign him)
I’m glad that all the negative fans that have been spitting out anti-Mets garbage all year are finally redeemed.
You all got what you wanted, and now you can gloat here.
What kind of a moron would trade Reyes, Wright or Beltran?
I can’t stand reading all these stupid comments posted by people who couldn’t possibly be real fans.
I love Reyes, Wright, and Beltran….however pitching wins championships (90% of the time). If we had another stud starting pitcher and a revamped bullpen, we could be back next year. The obvious candidates for trade would be Wright or Reyes, as they are younger and more reasonably priced than Beltran. It’s just a thought/suggestion. Don’t get your panties in a bunch.
that doesn’t make any sense. thank god you aren’t the GM.
why would you trade 2, 25 year old all-star players and keep the older ones, for starting pitching - which wasn’t our problem?
and don’t talk about my panties.
haha…sorry about the panties comment. i didn’t say i would trade both. i said, wright, reyes, or beltran. i only would entertain trading one of them.
When you get a franchise player, you stick with them. Reyes and Wright are those players.
Fine.
I think this core needs breaking up, but I’m willing to sacrifice 1 more season (may as well, the previous 3 were wasted) to give you the rope to hang yourselves.
Keep the core.
Fix the pen
Upgrade the rotation
Upgrade 2b and OF
Surround Wright Reyes with whatever supporting cast you think they need.
And WHEN we have no playoffs again next season. STFU and get out of the way, cuz one of them is going to have to be gone.
I’m very surprised Furioso. You actually said something that made sense. I like this side of you better. Very good suggestions. I can’t believe you are actually giving your endorsement to this team for next year.
The only thing I disagree with is trading one of the core even if they fail next year. You can’t do that. This core has to stay together and retire as Mets. Plain and simple.
You never should trade:
- a Gold Glove potential HOF 3B that hits great
- a Gold Glove potential HOF CF that hits great
- a potential Gold Glove talented young spark plug SS potential HOF that hits great and runs like the wind.
- a Cy Young award winner stud pitcher that’s a gamer
The following players MUST STAY:
Wright, Reyes, Santana, Beltran, Pelfrey, Maine, Murphy,Evans
SHOULD STAY:
Church, Sheinder, Smith, Tatis, Chavez, Sanchez
BORDERLINE
Delgado, Easley, Perez, Castro, Ayala
MUST GO:
Heilman, Shoeinweis, Feliciano, others of the bullpen, Castillo, Anderson, Pedro(although he is great he is done), Alou, El Duque,