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Jerry Manuel had the following to say after yesterday’s season-ending loss to the Marlins, regarding…
…the fans:
“It’s unfortunate for the fans. They were really, really tremendous.
…the most frustrating part of the season, for him:
“Well, obviously, we didn’t win – that’s frustrating. I think, probably, the inconsistent way we played the last week offensively over the last week. We knew we were having people out of place in the bullpen. We knew that. We knew that was something that wasn’t going to hit on all cylinders, so we have to kind of mix and match and flip and flop and that kind of thing…In saying that, we probably needed for a guy, or one or two guys to step up offensively and lighten that load. That’s just too much playing with that type of stuff, that was too much for us, we couldn’t overcome that.”
…essentially, he is saying that it’s tough to blame the bullpen because every one knew the bullpen was a mess…instead, the offense needed to step up and it did not…and i totally agree…
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Five runs in the season ending three game series with everything on the line. Enough said.
D-Wright and F-Mart for Roy Halladay. Nuff said.
Roy Halladay? You’re joking right? Do you really think that starting pitching was the problem this year? If you do, maybe you weren’t paying attention….
I think the inability of starters to get past the 6th inning was at the base of this disaster. If you don’t see that as a problem, then you’re not paying attention.
Ollie Perez was lights out on occaision. How many times did he pitch 7 complete innings? How about Maine? Pedro?
I’d rather get a good bullpen for the other 60% of the games we play without Johan and Doc Halladay.
Have you ever seen FMart play?
Check around baseball and see how many starters go 7 or 8 innings….geez….
If we had a semblance of a decent bullpen, we’d be in the playoffs right now.
Absolutely; the problem really started in 2007 when we still called Pedro & Duque starters. Still pretended they could be expected to throw 150 IP. When they didnt magically morph into physically sound 25 yr olds, we had to trot out guys who normally wouldnt be asked to start. Add in the fact that Oliver & Maine almost never exceeded 6 IP this year (5 IP was not uncommon) and you have an overworked BP. Aaron & Duaner were not 100%. Stokes & Ayala were great pick ups considering the cost.
kooz, i agree that we would be in the playoffs with even a decent bullpen. but i am saying that we could use another starter as well. any bullpen would be tired at this point in the season if it had to work this much.
Never saw F-Mart play.
you do not trade a 25 year old 3bman whose one of the best in MLB at his position. Wake up!!! and stop listening to Fasto on WFAN who keeps saying they need to break up the core.
FYI, I don’t listen to Fatso on WFAN. This is what I see with my own two eyes. I love D-Wright as much as you guys, but you have to give quality to get quality. He is a 25 yr old stud, which is why it won’t take too many players to get a guy like Halladay (31). Look at Halladay’s numbers in the AL.
We need starters that can go deep into games, as well as some bullpen arms. But this is a trade I would make and I think Toronto would think about.
That’s just the thing. Wright is 25. Halladay is 31 and has a lot of mileage on his arm. Wright is going to be better for a much longer period of time.
So, Pedro broke down in his mid-30s, right? If we got 3 years of Halladay’s current production, I would feel very comfortable that we could be in a World Series in that time frame.
…this isn’t 2006 and we aren’t going to slug teams to death anymore.
So what do you want us to be? The Blue Jays, where we have great starting pitching but nothing else? I would much rather sign someone like Burnett and give up no prospects. Besides draft pick, of course.
So you would trade a proven 25 year old everyday player about to enter the prime years of his career who is still under contract for 4 more seasons and an 18 year old everyday player who has tremendous upside potential for a 31 year old starting pitcher who might be entering the tail end of his career. You would make one lousy GM. The Blue Jays would jump all over that.
You are not a smart personl Nuff said.
Murphy came up as a 3rd baseman. Murphy can move back.
We aren’t Kansas City. We can sign Manny Ramirez, K-Rod, Orlando Hudson, some bullpen arms. Manny more than makes up for the loss of Wright. Our lineup would be pretty stacked and our starting pitching would be pretty nasty as well. Not to mention, having a real closer rather than Luis Ayala. We can also replace some of those other bullpen arms and go at it again.
All I’m saying is, Wright has trade value and we can overcome his loss by signing Manny. Why not get another front line starter? Halladay isn’t built like Pedro. He is a big guy, more like Pelfrey. His body doesn’t seem to be breaking down.
I am sick of the excuses. They are the SAME ones as last year. Enough is enough. I really hope the Wilpons take a look around this year and realize that things have to change, and fast. Omar needs to go, first and foremost.
I have a weird feeling about this. Omar is to blame in so many ways, highest on my personal list is that he would not admit his mistake in retaining Willie after the collapse and waiting too long to make a change. Number two on my list is a third consecutive season without making an impact trade in season to help the weaknesses of the team, except for the one he was forced into by the taxi accident. And it got him OP — are teams just afraid to deal with him? I doubt that. He is tentative to make the quick trade, and off-season that works out great (we kept F-Mart in the Santana deal) but in season he gets nothing.
I guess where I am torn is, which seems more likely: Omar re-tooling, making some Omar-esque moves and putting together a great team that Manuel takes to the playoffs next year, or the new GM the Wilpons bring in being a disaster. I remember when Bobby V was fired and everyone was happy, they brought in Art Howe. This is what worries me — careful what we wish for when it comes to the Wilpons making the baseball decisions….
but then again, they say you build consistency by retaining the same system, and we see what this system keeps producing… so blowing it up may be the only choice. We’ll all hold our breath on who comes in to take over the team I guess, but it needs to be done.
Whenever I hear people talking about we need to get rid of Omar, I think of where we were when Omar got here. We were a disgrace and it wasn’t getting any better.
The fact of the matter is, Omar has brought in players. He brought in Beltran (granted many Mets fans dislike Beltran, but at least he showed up yesterday), traded for Delgado, brought in Pedro, drafted Pelfrey, brought in Wagner (to replace Braden Looper). I don’t think I even need to go on. Braden Looper was our #@%#$ closer before Omar had the chance to make a change.
I would blame omar only to an extent. Yes the bullpen was not that strong but again there was not much he could do with what he had. I think we should evaluate what we got and what works
smith-keep(did well vs R)
pedro-keep(did well against L)
Stokes-keep(has good fb and long relief)
Show-gone
aaron-gone
Sanchez-keep(to me i think its his first year coming back from 2 surgeries..i think we need more time to evaluate if he truly is not going to return.)
parnell-keep(id audition him for next year)
rincon-keep(did an ok job vs L, have him in the minors for depth or if you want a L reliever in the pen)
That’s what I have been thinking. I really think Omar needs to go, but on the other hand, who is going to take his place? So, as the old saying goes “Be careful what you wish for.”
It can also be said they were pressing, which is a reflection on the manager, the lack of confidence in the bullpen, in each other, and then yes, the lack of balance in the order making each player feel he had to hit a 5 run HR.
As much as I love Manuel, they have to change the direction of the team and re-build it quickly to be a new team with the new ballpark. Starts with a new (old?) face at manager. Bobby V is my choice.
Plain and simple, in my mind, the BP cost us the post season. Sanchez never returned to 2006 form, Heilman was not effective at all, and too many lefty/righty specialists, lost our closer going down the stretch, and on and on.
We had like what? – the second highest run total by our offense? Saying the offense should have scored twice as many runs as the opposing team every night to compensate for the bad BP is just not realistic. You have like even a 2 or 3 run lead, no reason you should have to see the BP blow that night after night.
Complete overhaul by the BP is needed in order to compete at all next year. And since we all know it, Omar has to know it. I’ll be curious to see what they come up with…..
I just don’t know who or what they can come up with the fix the BP problems. I agree the bullpen was the main culprit in this whole thing. My feeling is, when you blow 7-0 leads and 3-run leads in the 9th inning against a team you’re battling for the division, that takes away the luxury of losing a 1-0 stinker or a 2-1 hard fought game – which every team is bound to have.
I have to take a look at the list of free agent bullpen arms. I would like to see Joe Smith, Pedro Feliciano (because I think he can get tough lefties out), and Duaner (because I think he deserves another year off of major surgery) make a return. That’s about it. Stokes was really just OK. I would try to keep him in a spot starter role/mop up duty.
I agree about keeping Joe Smith. I only agree about keeping Feliciano IF they come up with a couple of arms that can get both right/lefties out. I believe we gave Duaner enough time to prove he can get it done. Do we really want to waste another year on a 50/50 proposition on him?
I say Sanchez/Schoe/Heilman need to go.
I say keep Stokes also – good for the long man. Maybe Parnell as well but didn’t get enough of a chance to see what he can do. I’m on the fence about Ayala.
And more than anything, come up with a REAL closer. Someone you know you can go to every time and he’ll get the job done.
i disagree on sanchez. He came off 2 surgeries and 1 1/2 years of NOT pitching. To say just his first comeback season is enough time to evaluate him is rediculous. Look at the numbers and if you saw him pitch, he showed flashes of his 06 stuff. I say keep him until spring training and evaluate him then. Lets see what he(duaner) does in the offseason. If he can come back to his 06 form, it would go along way to helping the pen.
I agree that arron/show must go.
Fair enough about giving Sanchez spring training to see what he can do
MetsFan4Decades,
If I were you, I would look at the handle of the guy that just disagreed with you about Sanchez. I think there is a little bias there haha.
The bullpen blew seven games in the last 50 in which the Mets had a 2+ run lead at some point from the seventh inning on. I doubt the Phillies blew more than one. Decent bullpen and they make the playoffs if not win the division. Starting pitching was top 4 in the NL. Bullpen was bottom third in the NL. Enough said.
While you can make the case the offense didnt step up…why didnt the bullpen. Look there were alot of factors that lead to this and think about this guys, we had 11 guys for the bullpen in september and couldnt get the job done(nobody stepped up)..imagine if we would have won and when to the playoffs…who the hell would we have taken. I am as disappointed as the next met fan but we were not a strong canidate to go into the playoffs..
So Matt…
What you’re saying is that we can’t blame the bullpen BECAUSE they’re so bad?
That makes a lot of sense.
Obviously the hitters didn’t get it done, but if the bullpen wasn’t one of the worst in the majors for the entire season the Mets would have won the division outright.
i dont agree with things you say prisimo but i agree on that. To say the bullpen was a mess and everyone knew this but blame it on the offense is rediculous. If you know the bullpen is a mess why doesnt someone step up and clean up the bullpen. The offense and bullpen share the blame equally. 5 runs in a 3 game series against the marlins..cmon
The bullpen stunk all year. The offense is what choked.
So I blame the season on the bullpen, the injuries, Willie, and Omar, in that order, and the late September choke on the offense and Omar (for not fixing the weaknesses at the trade deadline when the bullpen was poor and Wagner got hurt in July).
So I agree that you cannot blame the choke part on the bullpen, since they were already the weakness of the team — the offense and starting pitching (which stepped up) was all we were hanging our hopes on the last two weeks.
i blame the season on injuries,bullpen,offense in that order. I dont blame omar for not being able to see into the future and knowing billy would get hurt or anyone would get hurt. IMO omar didnt have anything to work with in the trade deadline and it didnt help that other teams had way better packages than the mets did. Yes the bullpen was a weakness but i disagree that the blame for this weakend should be squarly on the offense. I believe the offense is a part of the blame(5runs in 3game series against the marlins) but i refuse to accept that the bullpen could not have 1 person..1 PERSON to step up and want the ball.
” I dont blame omar for not being able to see into the future and knowing billy would get hurt or anyone would get hurt.”
Wagner went on the DL in July. The trading deadline was July 31. There were posts on this site from everyone about Street, Fuentes, et al coming in to set up and possibly fill in if Wagner’s injury gets worse, which it did.
ok snake but tell me what kind of package that omar could have put together that would have netted us this that did not include fmart niese murphy or evans. Fact is snake other teams had better packages than us.
Two years in a row same thing?? If this team doesn’t get changed from the top down for next year citi field “should” be a ghost town…… It’s obviously in these guys heads, you cannot keep this team together… The only one who isn’t infected with the collapse syndrome is Johan.
Can we please stop with the trade Wight,Beltran,Reys talk!!
IT NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!
Is this Omar? Are you related to Omar? Are you related to a Wilpon, or Katz? If not, you don’t know…..
You people all need to take a break. I know we’re all mad, dissappointed, whatever you want to call it. But, for people to spit out stupid trades (Wright and F-Mart for Halladay), and to call for a complete overhaul of the team from top to bottom is just plain crazy. Take a few weeks. Wait until after the WS (Cubs-Angels), and then lets see what kind of plan this team puts into effect. I’m as dissappointed as the next guy, but c’mon. I’ve supported this team since I was 6 and went to my 1st game. I worked at Shea when they would only hire vendors when they gave away stuff (1983). I will never stop rooting for this team.
LETS GO METS!
OK Vendor……. Here is the thing…… “rationally speaking” The collapse in 07 was one thing, but to do it two years in a row?? Trust me, I have always been a huge Reyes, Wright and Beltran fan…… I think after two years of spitting the bit, there is no other choice but to ship these guys out for new talent.. They are seriously not clutch players, and I don’t believe in them anymore…..
You have no clue.
This was not a collapse, plain and simple. If you don’t believe in them, go root for another team…
2008 was nothing like 2007. In 2007, the team played on cruise control the entire season and felt it should be handed to them and it caught up to them in the end. That team was 36-18 after 54 games and played below .500 the rest of the season. This team started 2008 under the cloud of last year and the daily drama of will Willie be fired today for the first 2 1/2 months and were 6 1/2 games back and in fourth when he was eventually fired. They were 55-38 the remaining of the season but were eventually undone by the bugaboo that came back to haunt them all season long, a lousy bullpen that was only made worse by the loss of Wagner with 50 games left.
The happiest person today has to be willie randolph imo
Not as happy as I was when he got fired.
agreed but willie got fired for not producing. People made great strides that manuel is way better than willie and i guess you can make an arguement on that but at the end of the day..the team couldnt get it done AGAIN in september.
This team would’ve been out of it by September with Willie as Manager. They would’ve finished back there with the Braves.
Anyone who wants to trade Reyes, Wright, or Beltran is totally clueless. This was lost because of the bullpen and nothing else but the bullpen. Period, case closed!!
Perhaps you weren’t watching?? Bullpen was tragic agreed, but the offense came up short countless times….. Their heads are messed up, no heart, chokers, whatever you want to call it… This team needs some players with fire, who come through when it matters…
people are stupid zeca….thats just the bottom line
Agree that trading any of those guys is absurd and will never happen anyway. It looks like both Omar and Jerry are back so I guess we start by ridding ourselves of Heilman, Show and Castillo and then move on from there to overhaul the pen and get another bat in here. If Murphy can actually make it at 2B then we can chase a power hitting LF. Another SP is needed as well.
I have no problem with us trying to improve the offense. But let’s try to fix the real problem first, kay?
Daniel Murphy will never be a major league caliber 2B. Plain and simple. He did come up as a 3B though :-)
wow you guys need to chillax. the season was a disappointment but this talk of trading reyes/wright/beltran is idiotic. who do you get back or pursue to replace their production? these are kazmir/seaver/ryan-esque trades, people! you don’t trade studs for guys already in their prime pitchers who already have lots of mileage on their arms.
what omar needs to to is clean out the bullpen. it’s already been said that parnell is getting a shot at the rotation. more than likely, he may end up in the pen. give duaner another shot, keep smith. i’m indifferent on pedro and you keep stokes. we need power arms in there.
they have to get k-rod. two years of playoff near-misses = the wilpons need to save face going into the new park. you can bet this means there will bex extensive talks about getting k-rod. i wouldn’t be surprised if the mets seriously entertain looking into cc sabathia either. i realise it’s less likely but with pedro and most likely ollie gone…
the team isn’t far away but this offseason there must be a more concerted effort to pick up the pen as well as get younger on the bench.
A Dissapointment??!! Understatement of the season!! Two years in a row where the team totally spit the bit!! A dissapointment?? What planet are you on???
We’ll be debating all winter if the “core” is a problem or not, but nobody can deny that the offense let the team down the final weekend.
Will any Met even dare to question any booing next season? Unless your name is Johan, you’re gonna get a lot of it
I would say Delgado, Beltran, and Murphy don’t deserve it either.
Jerry has nothing to hang his head for. He did something his predecessor never did, namely, act like a field general. Jerry used strategy to motivate and steer this club, something I saw lacking in Willy. Only one major problem that hasn’t been addressed: everyone on this team goes to bat swinging for the long ball. Just look how streaky Wright and Beltran have been at clutch times. When Wright is hitting to the opposite field lobbing the ball just over the first baseman’s head look how productive that was. How about a little more slap hitting. Singles and doubles and GOOD bunting at unexpected times can lead to runs. Maybe next year HoJo will recall all the little hits that added up when he was playing and instill this ’small-ball’ mindset in his charges. LET’S GO METS 2009!!
Are you sure the fans were tremendous? Reading this site, I thought all they did was boo and make their players feel sad.