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According to MLB.com, Jeff Wilpon told reporters, “I think we overachieved,” considering where the team was earlier in the year, and considering all of the injuries they had to deal with.
…you have got to be kidding me…
…i mean, whatever had been the case, be it injuries, fourth place in june, etc., the facts are this: a) his team was three games in first place in September, b) they were two games up in the Wild Card, and c) they controlled their own fate up until the last 30 minutes of the season…
…so, while i understand what he’s trying to say, please, spare me the overachievement nonsense…especially today…
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jerry manuel = overrated
wilpon has bought into minaya’s charm
the mets are the ny knicks
wilpon = dolan
minaya = isiah
On a day of dumb comments, this will definitely lead the pack.
To compare the Mets situation to the Knicks is as disingenuous as it gets.
knicks are a mess.
mets actually win games.
with that said:
omar is spinning away like isiah.
and wilpon has bought it hook line and sinker.
1st scapegoat was willie.
just like how isiah fired all his coaches before.
now, omar gets an extension – ala isiah.
when jerry fails (which he will), then he will be next on the firing line while omar is sitting pretty.
Nope…still dumb. There is no parallel.
Take a few days to let this sink in and you’ll see an organization that’s in great shape for the next 5 years.
lol, you are the dumb one , dave27. yeah, 5 more years of collapse until they find a better GM and shake up the team.
Agreed. F Jeff Wilpon.
Jeff Wilpon = Hank Steinbrenner.
The Wilpons ought to be ashamed of themselves. When a 137 million dollar team misses the playoffs it’s not overachieving. Say what you want about the 2nd half versus the 1st half but this team had a 3.5 game lead with 14 or 15 left to play and lost the division by 3 games thats 6.5 games blown in that span. You call that overachieving? F U Wilpons go ruin another Franchise!
Seriously, there are many fans in bad moods with a sour taste in their mouths and we have to see these kind of quotes a few days after what was a disappointing season. even if they actually do believe in what they think, keep it to yourselves.
This comment is an absolute joke. Blame the bullpen, blame Omar, blame a player or two, blame the coaches, blame the fans, I don;t care.
It all comes down to the Wilpons. A comment like this just shows us all the the problem is at the very top.
If Jeff really believes that then ticket prices are grossly over-inflated.
Yes and the Excelsior Level is the best value in Major League Baseball…
Agree 100%. heard the same nonsense from Omar that he wants to be playing “meaningful” games the last day. That means up to 162 – we’re good! Guess what – our target should be the WS – that’s why this team always falls short.
Again, they want to price tix, food etc. like the yankees but they only have 2 World Championships to speak of – the operation is secon place and it starts with the mentality at the top.. These comments only prove what they think is satisfactory
this comment proves what an as#-clown wilpon is. he might be a very nice guy and do great things for the community, but this comment makes anything hank steinbrenner says sound rational. shut the hell up wilpon!!!!! up 2 games in the loss column over the brewers with 7 to go and this team chokes again!!!! overacheived???? shut the hell up.
overachieved?
hahaha
sell the team wilpons…sell the team.
please sell the team, buy the dodgers and have fun in the warm California sun
With all the injuries this year, the team was lucky to be still contending on the last game (see the Yankees).
Yes, they should’ve won the series against the Marlins, but really I’m glad to fought back from mid-summer and we saw an exciting pennant race.
It takes an entire team to win, and hopefully next year’s team will have less injuries and provide better support for it’s core players.
Please, let’s not rely on the injuries excuse. You don’t have to be Bill James to understand that when you sign older players who are in decline (put in any name you like here – Pedro, Moises, ElDuque, Wagner, etc.), you’re going to get hit with injury issues. Omar, in fact, designed a team that was particularly vulnerable to being injured.
Hard to imagine Alou at his age contributing more than Tatis and Murphy did.
Church has always been a so-so player, so more of him would have been more good Church or more bad Church?
Mets’ top 4 players didn’t miss many games at all.
If you need to have an entire roster stay healthy to win then maybe you need to rethink the plan-especially with a giant payroll.
I agree that the team should not have been built around aging falling apart veterans but the fact is one of our strongest starters got injured and is a young guy with tons of upside — our closer also managed to not take too much time off in the last three seasons but he fell apart too at the worst possible time. Injuries weren’t the whole problem, but just some of it.
I disagree. IF the team does not have the confidence or players to compete and win every game then dont bother. This had NO CHANCE at all and would have been gone like the Phillies last year. I want to feel like we can win and not that we are lucky to be there. IF we make th eplayoffs again I want a season like 2006 or not at all. 2008 was a waste and it stunk, period. Tease and tease and loose the big games and get put in your place by the Braves, Nats, Phillies and Marlins. What a disgrace and a joke and its on us. I wish they just fell out o fit in June and then we could watch the games and enjoy it whne we beat a better team. Like when we beat the Yankees. Leseer teams take great pleasure in beating better teams.
JimYager, out of curiosity, how long have you been a fan? Like, 2005 because you got sick of the Yankees not dominating every year and loved Willie? Please give it a rest. Real dyed-in-the-wool Mets fans knows this team usually thrives on being the underdog and a pennant race is just what we saw. The only drawback to this team (unlike the teams in the 80s that came oh-so-close) is that there is not one bruiser on the team — they are all p*ssies who don’t know a good team when they are on it.
Well I have been a fan since 1986, I got disgusted and forgeot about baseball after the strike and I got back into it again when the Mets signed Mike Piazza. I live in Vermont and it cost me around $400 bucks to attend a game and in 2007 I had saturday season tickets. I have to buy MLB Extar Innings to watch the METS, so, I suppose, unlike you , I am not a true fan. Im only a bandwagon fan. Underdog is juat an excuse for when we choke. This season was anything but FUN and this pennant race was a joke. We had NO chance at all. We had hope and we wanted it and as fans we where blinded by faith, but, in the end, we all knew it was over. They lost every big game that could have made a difference in the season until there was nothing left and then blew that game as well. The Truth hurts.
Are you Wilpon in disguise – very team has injuries – like Milwaukee, Dodgers, Phillies etc.- the good teams find a way to win despite this.
The Mets knew that Wagner and Maine were done in August – what did they do about it – oh that’s right they wanted to protect their valuable prospects. We still only have a small picture ow what Murphy, Evans and Niese are – at least we saw them. Where is the great FMart or do we just talk about him in spring training before he gets hurt.
Oh-BTW – injuries happen every year to every team and even past Mets teams that have won. the difference is those teams knew how to win
wow this team is FINISHED….
you’re a day late there bud
The Quote is from an article in the Boston Herald…which I can’t post here for some reason…
In an article called “Another Lonely Winter Ahead”
Minaya in an AP article today, quoted just after the loss yesterday:
“This team I thought did an unbelievable job getting us to today,” said Minaya, reflecting on the injuries and choosing to stay positive. “I thing what went wrong — we’re a streaky offensive team.”
Okay. Sometimes the offense was streaky. And often, couldn’t come back in the late innings. But how the heck does OM not just say we lost because our bullpen was awful? Is he setting us up for keeping them again, just like he did last year?
That comment seems like a backward insult. Kinda saying that we got far due to the team, but were stopped short due to the team.
Wilpon is a joke. Our bullpen fell apart and it was all due to Wagner’s injury. That forced us to overuse our key players and they tired down the stretch.
omar is trying to cover his behind by blaming the offense. We all knew the pen was weak the last two winters and he did nothing about it. If it were my ten I’d fire him on the spot for that comment.
Maybe what Wilpon meant is that he didnt expect to make the playoffs with the CHOKERS of Wright Beltran and Reyes along with everyone else…he may have thought hte team was talented enough to make it but was smart enough to know that with these chokers nothing was going to happen…maybe now he’ll trade some of them off and get some new players like Manny who can get the job done
you are obviously retarded. trade 3 young and enormously talented guys for a 35 year old.
and stop overusing the word choke.
But he is trying to say that the team CHOKED and from his point of view they are the biggest CHOKERS that ever CHOKED at the end of the season after CHOKING in the previous year. What a bunch of sorry CHOKERS these CHOKE BAGS are. CHOKE
:D
Manny’s not coming to Shea. Get over him.
Ooops. I meant Citi Field.
Airfeet you win today’s dumbest poster award. One 3 separate threads you’ve spewed the same unthought out, unresearched garbage. I’m sure you are the first to boo at a game and the first to write the team off when they lose 2 in a row. Go back into hiding like all the rest of the fake Met fans and reshow yourself when we compete again.
Here’s the quote, Matt:
“I feel totally different this year than last year. Last year I felt we underachieved. This year I felt we overachieved.”
and
“It’s nothing against our second baseman today — look who our second baseman was, look who our left fielder was, look who was in the bullpen. No Billy Wagner, no John Maine — you can go right down the list to what happened.”
Maybe Jeffy should think about who got us into this mess.
Wilpon has to take a hit too because I bet he rubber stamped a lot of Omar’s moves over the past few winters such as giving Castillo 4 years.
And why is he saying “look who our second baseman is” when the one they spent around $20 million on was sitting on the bench deemed to be an inferior option on that day?
Maybe that’s why he’s making excuses now and trying to sugar coat things. Because he himself has grown increasingly influential with the baseball decisions over the last few years? Just a guess.
Bottom line – the Wilpons are nice owners and very generous with the payrolls but they are clueless baseball people.
Agreed about the Wilpons approving things- Omar is the one making the recommendations. If we fired Willie- and I am not defending him here – why is no one to blame for this mess yet again.
Is jerry the right guy – we’ll see !!
Sorry Matt. Saw it in the times too.
It is frustrating. How could a team, constructed essentially the same way as a team in 2007 which was expected to compete for a World Series, overachieve? Granted, Moises Alou barely played, leaving an enormous gap in Left Field, but I find it odd that you could expect much from Alou at all. Angel Pagan was the backup plan and not a very good one at that. The pitching staff didnt suffer injuries until the end of the season and it wasnt like this team was dominating prior to that. The fact is, players who were supposed to contribute underachieved for most of the season, i.e., Carlos Delgado, Luis Castillo, and the bullpen. The fact that Moises Alou was our LF left no margin for error when Ryan Church got hurt. Luis was a defensively inept Rey Ordonez at second base. This team should have at least made the playoffs. The fact is, heading into next season, we are in desperate need of starting and relief pitching as well as an everyday LF. The thought that a team, with a new stadium and television deal would not consider going after the best closer available, K-Rod, considering that the bullpen as presently constructed lacks a serious stopper, is absurd. i can tell you this, Matt Wise was not the answer. I dont care how much money it costs. Can you really tell the fans you are serious about winning when you try and get creative in the bullpen? Is Fuentes the answer? The Phillies won because, when it got to Brad Lidge, the game was as good as over. I hope the playoffs go quickly and the Phillies achieve nothing!
an excellent point, but up until this season Brad Lidge averaged 7 blown saves a season, the Phillies were as fortunate as they were good this year, and when push comes to shove, I am willing to bet that Lidge will be their undoing in the playoffs, and I am not saying that as a bitter Mets fan, it is just the law of averages.
Yea…I don’t think one baseball “insider” or Phillies fan said before the season that Brad Lidge would not blow one save. They made a risky trade and it paid off big time.
Bullpens are hit or miss, complete crapshoots. This exact same bullpen was very good at the beginning of 07, and we had a patchwork bullpen in 06 which over achieved. You’ll also have guys like Billy Koch or Billy Taylor who have one amazing season and then never put it together again.
Don’t disagree with you that bullpens are a crapshoot but did you realyy think Ayala, Rincon, schoenpuss etc etc was going to survive when wagner went down! They wanted to cut corners and they got burned. How would Matt Lindstrom have looked in a Mets unifirm yesterday or for the month of Sept?????
I think he is just trying to say that in the scheme of losing Pedro Martinez for one third of the season, John Maine for one third of the season, Billy Wagner for one third of the season, Alou all season and Ryan Church for half of the year, along with the disaster that was Luis Castillo…
He does not want the guys on his team to go off and stick their heads in an oven.
By their own doing the Mets had to field a team that relied on Damion Easley/Argenis Reyes, Daniel Murphy/Fernando Tatis and a gross million headed monster in the bullpen.
You guys get way to caught up in verbs and words form ownership. If winning was just about slamming your fist in anger every year the Yankees would have won every World Series from 1977 through 2001 and likely beyond because George would not have softened until he started checking out.
Frustrating as all hell, but we are a long way way from Dolan and Thomas non-sense.
agreed pat.
I agree…we should have gotten it done…but we didn’t. And why?
Well, because we have many holes on our team. We tried to fight through it, but in the end, it was our undoing. Omar did not properly prepare this team depth-wise before the season and we became exposed. The bullpen was overworked to the point of ineffectiveness. You can say they are not good…and I can’t dispute that, but the truth is, we had 4 relievers in the top 10 in appearances in all of baseball…4!!..not 1, but 4. Time and Time again these guys were used and proved ineffective.
At the end of the season, the starting roster of this team did overachieve, And the fact that they did, shows the failed job Omar did before 2008 began.
so what was their issue in the first hafl of the season? They were bad, are bad and will continue to be bad…just hopfully not for us next year !
I’ll play the injury card here partially…Pedro went on the DL after throwing 3 innings…Delgado didn’t realize there were games until june…Church was our biggest OF threat until he went down in May…Pagan played great in ST replacing a player we depended on(Alou, and just saying depending and Alou in the same sentence is idiotic)…Omar actually expected El Duque to pitch this season…and the biggest reason would be Willie…Willie lost all effectiveness with this roster when we blew it in 2007…He should have been fired then..but no…we the players had to play for a manager they grew to resent…Not to mention the weeks of media involvement distracting the players.
And I didn’t even get to the bullpen yet.
didnt mean to say “we the players” …typo.
best comment i’ve read
Jeffie Wilpon often puts his foot in his mouth.
they “over achieved” in the 2nd half because they under achieved in the first; and and they lost whatever positive movement they made by not finishing it off.
Dear Fred Wilpon,
Please don’t die.
Signed,
Met fans
$140 Million teams do not overachieve… They underachieve…
This team is in damage control mode…
This pablum they try and feed the pollyanna fans is incredible…
You must be kidding me…
I see what jeff was saying but i think it was poor judgement on words.
If we go back next season with the same Core players this team is gonna collapse for the 3rd straight year……….
The core of the team is excellent….No team has the number of horses the Mets do in Reyes/Wright/Beltran/Santana…It really has been the role players which have been the undoing….for example, not having a capable 5th starter all of last season (record for Mets #5 starters in ‘07 was something like 3W and 10+ losses) and the awful bullpen this year.
Of course you’d hope the stars of the team would step up, and while I fault them because of their inability to do so over the past two years, I also recognize that you would be hard pressed to find a better collection of talent in the top 4 players in any given team. At the end of the day, the 2008 team had a great offense, and starting pitching that was 4-5 in the league. With just a league average bullpen, we’d be preparing for Wednesday. That should be the primary goal of this offseason.
What a treat…a very logical and reasonable response to a very idiotic and panic-driven statement.
Thank you ravi3 for being a voice of reason amongst a sea of obnoxiously short-sighted fans. The last time this team had a good bullpen was ‘06 and we crushed everyone in the NL. Keep the core and rebuild the bullpen this offseason. Case closed.
Here is how I fix the Mets and make them a serioius contender for 09. First, we sign Bobby Abreu. Im sure the Yanks will offer him arbitration and he will probably turn it down making him a free agent. Abreu comes at a much lower cost than say Manny Ramirez. Depending on how the market goes we may be able to land him with something like 2 or 3 years at 15 million. Now that we have our (decently) big upgrade with the offense, we have to focus on the bullpen. I say the only thing that will make a significant change out there without giving up much in terms of a trade, would be signing K-Rod. Yes he will come at a very expensive price, but lets face it folks, this team is moving into a new ballpark and there is no way in hell I want to see another year of the worst bullpen in baseball. Those 2 moves make the 2009 New York Mets the favorite in the NL East if not the entire NL. If you want to get creative, I would not mind moving Beltran but only if I get a young number 2 with upside to be an ace. Or a young 4 with upside and a blue chipper. If they are going to trade one of Beltran, Wright (NO!) or Reyes (NO!) then they must get a high upside young pitcher that is Major League ready in return. Just my 2 cents…nothing abstract just what I hope happens.
Like most people, I stopped reading at “Bobby Abreu.”
I guess you missed that the Phillies were a bunch of underachieving losers until the dumped this clown.
LOL, as soon as I saw Abreu I stopped reading too.
Actually I lied…I kpet reading to where you would trade Beltran. I guess his .364 September average and game-tying homer yesterday were the final straw for you, huh?
Ok dave27, what is so wrong with Bobby Abreu? You can pencil him in for 300 20-25 and 100 every year, with a 360-400 obp and 100 runs scored. OMG THE TERROR!!!!!! HE PLAYED FOR THE PHILLIES AND HE IS AFRAID OF WALLS!!!! Dont be ridiculous. And I did not say trade Beltran, I said if you wanted to get creative then you can possibly look into trading Beltran for a potential young ace, kind of like the Delmon Young/Matt Garza trade. If you replace beltrans production with Abreu’s (only its coming from RF instead of CF…I know) and still add a young stud pitcher AND cut payroll…wow that is really bad isnt it.
Right and we do not have enough LH batters in the lineup as it is…
We need a RH hitting OF’er and the best FA[’s avaialble are MAnny and Pat the Bat.
bobby abreu is allergic to walls, for starters.
Bobby Abreu NOO….we need RH batters…not players on the downside of the career.
Manny is the only player over 35 I would add to this offense.
the beltran hatred is just laughable. those who still ridicule him really need to start watching games and not his facial expressions at the plate.
Abreu is a loser. Empty numbers in a packed lineup.
in a LH hitters ballpark.
you were good until you wanted to trade beltran…otherwise good
Well, that’s the first time a $138 million ballclub overachieved to miss the playoffs.
jeff wilpon is a dunce but i understand what he is trying to say. today is just not the day to say it.
the mets aren’t far off. the first step to recovery is to admit you have a problem. to omar: “experience” doesn’t help if the player has a history of getting hurt. hopefully he has learned to temper his enthusiasm for signing players based solely on experience and look at other aspects such as very recent production not what they did three years ago and immediately believe a change of scenery is all that’s needed.
you can bet the store k-rod is a met next season.
i would also bet money that yu darvish ,if posted, will be a met, cost be damned.
this is a comment made by someone who wants to make money next year.
absolute CRAP. the mets organization will never stop being clowns until they win a world series. delusional clowns.
breaking news
wilpons: “we want to congratulate the dodgers on thier first place finish. we will always bleed dodger blue”
dear mark cuban,
make the wilpons an offer they can’t refuse.
sincerely,
mets fans
word.
haha…
mark cuban doesnt care about income…he cares about winning…no arguments here.
which is why he encounters so much resistance from the other owners and uncle bud in his attempts to buy a mjor league franchise
How scary is this statement! Oh to be a Mets fan.. What is happening to this franchise. All the talent in the world wasted and an ownership that makes this statement. Good god has this franchise become a joke. Top 5 mlb franchise I think not. We are doomed… DOOMED
I feel sorry for you.
thanks man,, I appreciate that. I feel sorry for the entire Mets world. We are lead by the blind.
It’s much better than it feels today…trust me. It’s not our time….yet.
On display here is the same mentality of entitlement that was exhibited at the stadium yesterday just prior to the post-game “celebration” when too many in attendance (I was there) had the bad taste to boo every PA announcement. Guess what? The team did overachieve, given the injuries that decimated the pitching staff (El Duque, Pedro, Maine, Wagner) and cost us two left fielders (Alou, Tatis) and our original second baseman and his sub (Castillo, Easley). Of course, I’m disappointed that the Mets failed to make the playoffs — but they just barely failed. They gave us reason to hope to practically the last inning of the last game of the season. And that made the season exactly what it should be — exciting, exhausting, maddening, and glorious.
The fans did not boo because of ‘entitlement’ it was because for the second consecutive season, the team pi$$ed away a lead in the final weeks playing teams that a playoff contender would surely defeat…
THAT is why it was ugly after the game…
It was ugly because too many Mets fans are obnoxious babies with chips on their shoulders the size of Shea’s upper deck, and who have no respect for their team’s history because they are too busy honing their Yankee Inferiority complexes.
I stayed yeterday, I cheered, and it was the perfect elixir to a tough end of the season. If it made anyone feel better to boo George Foster or – for the love of all things Yogi freaking Berra – then I feel bad for them.
i didn’t get booing foster either. i mean, he wasn’t THAT bad. i was surprised to see king kong honestly.
Agreed. As a matter of fact I have no idea why I am reading this drivel.
Those of us that get it see a great young nucleus that not only proved they could win in 2006 but also proved they could overcome adversity in 2008. We see a new stadium on the horizon and the opportunity to fix this team the right way and in the right places. We don’t over-react like babies to a statement from the team’s ownership – ownership that owes no explanations as to their dedication to winning.
And we probably should stop reading a blog that has added nothing whatsoever to the conversation today but to post incendiary quotes from the Marlins and Phillies all week as if he was running a high-school blog….and echo this same sense of entitlement.
It is pretty exciting that our next home game will be in a new ballpark…that is pretty thrilling to think of…its been a long time coming.
agreed, i am pissed beyond belief but at the end of the day, it’s just a game for my entertainment. win or lose, there’s always next year.
just more time to enjoy the giants, prep for the rangers and knicks.
speaking of which, who do you have to talk to at sny to get a rangers blog?!!
damn…why did I pick all the crappy teams to root for? I’m an islanders, mets, jets fan….its a tough life.
sorry, bruh. can’t relate.
If metblog had existed in 1985, people would have been calling for the Mets to be broken up after failing to make the playoffs a second straight year.
Advocating trading Wright, Reyes, or Beltran would be akin to suggesting trading Gooden, Strawberry, or Darling back then.
No I don’t think your right. Baseball was much different back then, The mets were perpetual losers for 10 years and didn’t have the payroll they currently have. Lost of young talent and LEADERS. Plus it was a two division league..
I agree. Francessa talking about trading the core.
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO TRADE THESE GUYS!!
Fat-cessa should worry about his Yankees…whose core is aging, young players are flailing, and manager is not well-liked in his clubhouse.
Dave, while I agree with the sentiment, that 85 team was filled with more young potential than this team. I am wondering if we’ve seen the max of what Wright, Reyes and Beltran can give- which, to your point, is pretty damn good. But I’m not sure it’s an apples-to-apples comparison there.
Nothing is ever apples to apples…but the point is that before talk radio and blogs people understood it took time to build a winner, and that some teams needed to take their lumps first. All they did was tweak the 85 team and you got 86.
This team needs more dramatic work in the pen, but the window for this team is still wide open.
They would have been calling for it 1988…lol. not b4 they won the W.S.
You know, I tend to agree with Jeff.
With Wagner hurt for part of the year and out for the stretch run, with Alou, Pedro and Castillo pretty much no help all year … with Maine’s arm getting worse and eventually useless as the season went along, with Church’s season being derailed by a major concussion, with no moves made during the season to improve the struggling bullpen and with Willie Randolph not having control over the clubhouse for the entire first half, I think the team over-achieved as well.
Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention the fact that we lost Easley and Tatis down the stretch as well, two of the only productive backup players we had left (especially against LHP, which killed us in the final days).
By the end of the year, this team had a solid nucleus with Wright, Reyes, Beltran and Delgado, but in reality, they had NOTHING OTHER than that nucleus. The team was limping into the final game on duct tape and glue. You had Ramon Martinez playing second base. You were counting on Brian Schneider for offense. You were looking to Luis “Batting Practice” Ayala as your closer and you had to pitch lefty specialists like Show against veteran right-handed platoon hitters.
You could feel the season was lost about 2 weeks ago.
can’t argue that. right on.
Sure…except Omar should have had a plan to replace some if not all of these people…and there was no plan whatsoever…
I like Omar, but how can you say they “underachieved” and then give the architect of that team a 4-year extension…
You can’t plan to replace half your roster. We lost both of our starting corner outfielders. We replaced one with Tatis, which was an amazing backup plan, but then he got hurt too.
We had Easley as a backup for Castillo, and he did a great job when given the playing time, but he got hurt too.
Evans and Murphy even did a great job as farm replacements in a platoon role, but when Maine goes down, and Pedro goes down (again), and Church gets a concussion after Alou goes down, there are only so many injuries you can plan for. How easy is it to find productive starters that are willing to take a backup role? Castro, Easley, Murphy and Tatis are about as good as you can get as bench players, but they are still bench players.
The bullpen was one area that did not get properly addressed, but to be fair, not much was available to trade for. What was available would have cost you multiple key prospects which you will need for years to come.
No, there was nothing to trade for as far as the bullpen went, but it was painfully obvious last year at this time that it needed to be fixed. Omar decided to wait on Duaner Sanchez’ broken shoulder instead.
They overachieved just like our economy is right now.
if omar overpaid for scott linebrink, there would have been mayhem on this board. there really was nothing available. if you’re a good, dependable bullpen guy, the team you’re on is NOT letting you go unless they get blown away.
Alou was hurt. That was a f%$#@! shocker, in Billy Wagner’s words. Another incredible development was Pedro’s ineffectiveness. The only person who thought Castillo would be good was Omar. El Duque was a tough loss too, we were all blindsided by that one.
Jeff is on his way to being James Dolan, with OMar playing Isaiah.
Jeff Wilpon is an idiot. This team has underachieved for 3 years. They have yet to make the “promised” land. I would think that, given the circumstances, Wilpon should keep his mouth shut and not anger the fans any more then they already are. Unless, of course, he doesn’t want to fill the seats in his new palace – Citi Field.
I disagree. In this case, I actually think Jeff is being objective. I don’t think you are. I’m as disappointed as anyone, but if you look at it objectively and not as a biased fan, you’ll see the truth. When you look at what we had left of our roster in September, the Mets just weren’t that good. Almost winning 90 games with guys like Brandon Knight pitching and Ramon Martinez as your starting 2B is pretty impressive.
Is this Jeff Wilpon with an alias of ‘Old Backstop?” Or maybe Fred?
I disagree. I think they underachieved. The Mets had a better rotation than last year and an equivalent offense. Their bullpen was slightly worse, but last year’s bullpen down the stretch was also horrendous.
The Mets aren’t the only team who had to withstand injuries, and last year’s Mets team also had to deal with injuries. I think they underachieved at least as much as last year’s bunch.
Maybe so…but look at our roster at the end of this season…with those players…its a shock they got this far.
With no bullpen, no experienced LF or RF, no dependable 2B…the Mets did pretty well to get this far.
The Mets had a pretty good bench…the problem was that that bench was starting a majority of games at LF, RF (most of the year), and 2B….not to mention, we didnt have a closer for almost 2 months (Criticize Wagner all you want, but he was our best reliever)
I’m not downplaying the disaster that occured, but this team just wasn’t good enough, and they showed it.
The Mets had basically the same bullpen as last year in terms of personnel — maybe better because Mota wasn’t there — with the exception that Wagner was hurt down the stretch. But OTOH, Manuel had MORE alternative options to rely on down the stretch (Ayala, Stokes, Figueroa, Parnell) than they had in 2007. So maybe the bullpen was worse due to some mismanag-ement? Maybe not by Manuel necessarily but by Wharthen? I think I prefer Peterson to Wharthen. But who instigated the Peterson ouster? It was the front office. So they are partly to blame for the bullpen underachieving this year.
The rotation is better. The core offensive players were all healthy — healthier than last year. So on balance, I just can’t see how this team underachieved relative to last year. Just can’t.
In that case Jeff should be asking why a team with a 140 million dollar payroll didn’t have enough left in september.
Wilpon’s comments are not angering any fans who realized what they were watching all season.
I watched all season. I knew what was wrong with the team, my friend. The bottom line is the Wilpons care mostly about improved profits for next year. As Omar said, ‘the brand is in good shape…ratings are good…’ that’s what matters.
It’s similar to when Brooklyn Dodger owner O’Malley made his comments about his team being profitable, even after losing to the Yankees year after year. This rightly outraged Dodger fans.
I’m drinking Kool-Aid!
The Wilpons are underachievers. Big time.
Folks, the Tampa Bay Rays are overachievers…
The New York Mets are chokers…
Well 7 of the 8 playoff teams will soon be chokers too, accoriding to you.
are you inferring that the mets did NOT choke down the stretch?
I don’t call this a choke, no. We lost. It does not need any more melodrama.
What would you call it?
In their last 17 games, they 7 games in the NL East loss column to the Phillies — just like 2007…
They lost 3 game lead in the Wild Card with 1 week of the season remaining…
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me…
That story has not been written yet. The Rays may yet be chokers. We’ll see.
If they blow a 3-0 series lead they are…
And not by losing in the postseason it does not make a team a choker…
This Mets ballclub choked this season away… Did they not play tight? Did they not play down to the level of their competition? Did they still fail to deliver in the clutch? Did they still show no guts when it comes to the bullpen?
I am one who believes there was nothing Omar could do during the season to acquire anyone worth anything… The pen was what it was…
umm, i wouldn’t go that far. people who actually pay attention saw this coming from the rays. it was just a matter of the pieces maturing and a couple of shrewd deals. joe maddon, evan longoria and troy percival sealed the deal.
Come on man…
Did you really think Tampa was going to win the AL East? If you did, you better have put some $$ on it….
i didn’t put money on them but i’d been following them closely since ‘03. they’ve been stockpiling studs since then and it was only a matter of time. winning the division? no. contending within three years in the al east? absolutely.
I knew it was only a matter of time…but didn’t expect this much success and dominance this quickly.
The Sad thing is the mets are chokers…which is why we cant just tinker our bullpen to make this team a winner…we need to take a deeper glance and make some more serious changes this offseason
Contracts and injuries are going to force serious changes this offseason. That to me makes it more important to keep the core intact.
Cant win with this core…i do think we can make the playoffs with this core…but theres no way our lineup will be able to produce anything in any sort of big playoff game…they have already proven numerous times they dont play well in big games..CAN ANYONE ELSE see that
Okay, so who do you get?
You already have to get 2 if not 3 starters (depending on Maine and rookies), LF, 2B, bench and 3 or 4 bullpen arms at least.
If you decline Delgado’s option 1B as well. So you want to add that possibly CF, 3B or SS?
Again who could you seriously get with all the other holes to fill?
Oh, and this core did make the playoffs in ‘06.
Santana Pelfrey Maine Niese..and we find 1 other starter…we do whatever we want with Delgado i dont really care…we put murphy at 2nd base or we dont sign delgado and put murphy at first…either works for me…we trade beltran for a prospect and solid relief pitcher to upgrade our pen and farm…we sign Manny to a 4 year deal…the guy is one of the best hitters of all time and isnt slowing down..and we sign Krod
and yes this core did make the playoffs in 06…but what happened..the bats went to sleep against the cards..remember getting shut down by JEFF SUPPAN….
ummmm…no this core ( and i define the core as beltran, reyes, wright, delgado) has already won, made the playoffs and was 1 run from going to the WS…..
You still don’t say who would play CF. With Manny playing left (we are never signing him btw) you need someone to cover some serious ground out there.
We have no idea if Murphy can play 1B or 2B.
How are we going to pay Manny, K-rod and Santana?
Hell, why don’t we sign Sabbathia and Teixiera while we’re at it?
the team cant hit and chokes in BIG games…is that NOT true..am i WRONG? lets not forget we CHOKED and COLLAPSED 2 straight years…you are really willing to throw the same group of guys out there for a 3rd straight year?
Endy Chavez can play left…idk find a victorino type player that can play defense but cant hit…if we have Mannys bat we dont really need an offensive centerfielder
Chavez centerfield
lol
HOW ARE WE GONNA PAY MANNY…SIMPLE WE TRADE BELTRAN YOU MORON…thats only reason im saying we should traed Beltran…if we could afford both id obviously rather have both of them
Chavez centerfield…Minaya is bringing us back to the days of the Expos!!!
You replace Beltrans bat with Manny and what do you get…not a big difference, while Significantly weakening overall production out of CF…Lets make LF stronger but weaken the rest of the team.
a prospect and reliever in return for the best CF in MLB with a below-market value contract…
man…I should just shoot myself in the head now.
The only way you get Manny is to ADD him to the lineup…and to say we can’t afford it…BS. We got over 20 million coming off the books now and that would help cover 15 million to K-Rod and another 20 million to Manny and another 10-20 million spent on another SP and 2 more relievers.
Lol, and I’m the moron.
Plus, Beltran had two of the biggest hits in the last few games.
blains…I know, right?
We have many holes on this team, so why not create more holes, right?
lol. Plus, I am not saying keep everyone but to me Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Santana, Pelfrey and Maine (hopefully healthy) are untouchable. I don’t count the minor leaguers / rookies (Niese, Parnell, Murphy Evans, etc.) here but some of them may be as well.
That leave plenty of room for serious change. But those guys are not the problem.
Plus, this team is not going to have a $200M+ payroll like the yankees. Matt already had that report that since Wagner’s contract is not insured they probably won’t go after K-Rod.
you guys are both not smart people…someone just said Manny wouldnt increase production much more than beltran…i laughed when i read that…we’re placing a .275 career hitter with a .300 hitter (hitting .400 w dodgers) with way more HRS and WAY more RBI…Beltrans NOT HALF the offensive player Manny is…and with the dramtic increase in production Manny wil give us…who cares if endy plays centerfield and bats in the lineup
maybe so…especially if he wants around 70 million…that is a lot…but I think it has to be seriously considered if the contract fits.
Yea lets use half a season average for leverage…
You’re right, he’s not half the player…more like 4/5 the player.
Beltran 2008: .284 avg 27HR 112RBI 116R
Manny 2008: over .300avg 37HR 121 RBI 102R
I’d say thats a marginal increase. And I do care if Endy bats everyday…we weaken our team as a whole if you replace Beltran with Manny. We weaken the production out of CF(offensively and defensivley) while weakening LF defense…This is also with the a$sumption that Manny plays with a good mindset.
You ONLY get Manny in addition to Beltran.
I would only think of it (like it’s my decision) if you keep Beltran and like starz says, “..if the contract fits.”
But remember 24 of 25 guys voted to get rid of Manny.
You also get clutch hits on top of those numbers you moron…and lets not forget half mannys numbers are an offensive lineup the dodgers that si WAY worse than het mets…your points are awful…you dont know what ur talkingt about…STATS arent everytyhing dude
You used stats to begin you’re comparison…so I deemed it appropriate to rebut with stats.
Thankfully, Omar is not as foolish as you and will not trade Beltran…
Airfeet: you are just crazy.
2006: same core, starting pitching not a good as this year. What’s the single biggest difference? The BULLPEN. 2006 Heilman/Sanchez were lights out for the 7th and 8th. Both were horrible this year.
You go into the 7th/8th with a 2 run lead, your BP should be holding that lead. That hardly ever happened this year. Hell, they couldn’t hold a 6 run lead.
You cannot expect your offense to score double the opponent every night b/c your BP stinks.
Fix the BP, start there.
138 Million Dollar payroll, five runs in the last 5 games = Over achievement?
Fail
Losers…
So does this mean we won’t be receiving any apology emails from the Mets P.R. dept?
lolol…I almost forgot about that.
We’ll get an email…guaranteed..especially with the closing of Shea and the manner in which we did so.
Hey, Beltran the Warrior — Francessa is on the FAN right now bashing Wright. It is NOT true that he is just throwing this stuff up for conversation. He’s saying the Mets should trade Wright.
He’s a friggin’ hypocrite. He’s just jealous the Yankees have ZERO homegrown young dynamic players now, and, regardless of whether Wright is clutch or not, he has challenged Jeter for title of Prince of the City. Francessa is just jealous of the Mets’ homegrowns and is just trying to irritate Mets fans.
Francessa and Michael Kay bring no objectivitiy to their journalism. They are so colored by their love of the yankees that can never say anything good about the Mets. They are happy this happened to the Mets because it takes the spotlight off of their crappy team which is only getting older.
I got on Francessa in one of the previous threads for saying the Mets should break up their core (Wright and Reyes) and said he only does this because he’s jealous of the Mets and wants to annoy Mets fans. Beltran the Warrior stood up for Francessa and said Francessa said he was only throwing that out for conversation. That’s not true. He’s strongly advocating it now and I think it’s mostly to annoy Mets fans and to try to diminish the Mets homegrowns so his overrated aging over-the-hill Yankee homegrowns like Jeter and Posada can look more heroic by comparison. Won’t work.
dude, relax. do you really think francesa going ape ion wright means anything? you know very well why he’s doing it? what else does he have to talk about today?
c’mon guys, you know how this works. think! no giants. no knicks. no rangers (not like he would talk hockey, but work with me), he could talk jets but…the yankees were out ages ago. what’s the the compelling story in new york right now? the mets.
he does need to get off wright though. it wasn’t all david’s fault. it’s on the bullpen.
Roberts is defending us though…and Omar is on at 3pm…that should be interesting.
beltran the warrior … no, I don’t think it means much except for propaganda and the fact that there are gullible fans out there who will take his words to heart and start repeating it on the FAN and other places.
Why the heck did you stand up for Francessa in the first place? It’s clear he didn’t just throw out this tripe just for conversation.
I just wanted to set the record straight. Yes, Francessa is a blowhard and he’s not the decent guy you seem to think he is.
wow Francessa is RIPPING Wright and Reyes right now…insulting mets fans that call-in.
He’s licking his chops today. Today is like dreamland for him. He gets to rip the Mets.
But most of his tripe rings false and is clearly coming from a Yankee fan, not an objective sports talk host.
As proof of his real intent, he always like to say how 2007 was the worst collapse in baseball history even though the Yankee 2004 collapse was.
to a certain extend i guess you could say i’m defending him, yes. at the same time, i’m simply not surprised, i’ve listened to the guy for 20 years, i’m used to the shtick and know when to tune him out.
Their crappy team also fought like mad down the stretch and won a lot of games…
They won as many as we did… LOL
I know they had the same record but they won a bunch as it became obvious they were going to be eliminated and after they were eliminated.
But, hey. Mussina got 20 wins. Which hopefully teases them to bring him back for another year.
As well as the return of the Giambino??
As Met fans and yankee haters we can only hope. ha ha.
francesa is a bore. smug fool too.
the last 8 year jeter and the yanks have had the #1 payroll with nothing to show for it. paul o’neill was the champion/leader not jeter (who is of course a good player)
All the yankee fans love Jeter but the key to that team has always been Rivera. He was the difference between them and any other team they faced in the playoffs or WS.
When he failed they lost (Diamondbacks, Red Sox).
Yup. And besides, we all know that if they put Jeter on a team like the Royals or even the Orioles, he’s nothing special and that the #1 reason the Yankees won all those rings is Rivera (with a little help from PEDs … not Rivera using it but others).
If Jeter were on the Royals no one on this blog would have ever heard of him.
thats not true
True.
at least Roberts is defending logical fans.
Wait, it’s logical to want to keep your best players?
shut your mouth.
after Roberts got off though, Francessa is RIPPING the fans that are calling defending the “core”
I’m sure Francessa would love nothing more that for the Mets to panic and trade everyone and be a mess for years.
Then he will forget that he said to do so or say he would have only traded them for players x, y and z. A trade which would never happen in the real world.
The plan should be to get younger at 2nd and left, rebuild the bullpen (while retaining Parnell, Smith, and Pedro F), and resign Ollie. All do-able, too, thus a good reason for everyone to stop whining.
Boycott Citi Field and Fat @ss Fran.
Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame one me..
Break up the band. It is time to move on.
Evan Roberts just got his @ss kicked on WFAN. Mike is actually right on this point.. You either have to change the manager or the core. Somethings gotta give.. Heart and Guts are needed desperately.
Yup, just go down to the Heart and Guts store and pick out some.
Why did the Phillies win?
Because to supplement great players like Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley and Ryan Howard, thehe picked up guys like Jayson WErth and Greg Dobbs and Shane Victorino… We don’t have those kinds of guys, IMO.
Also, they made a high risk/high reward deal for Lidge and it paid off big time…
I agree. In fact Lidge was the single biggest difference between the 2 teams. Without him the Mets win the division.
But according to others they won with Heart and Guts. Which they didn’t have in ‘06 or early ‘07 but I guess they bought some.
the difference between the mets and phillies was brad lidge. end of story. he converted the saves the mets could not. there’s your division.
Lidge was awesome this year. 0 blown saves? I believe 9 of our 29 blown saves were in the 9th. Imagine if we got those 9 wins back? That would equate to 98 wins.
Or even if Lidge blew a couple. Maybe even a couple against the Mets.
Who cares what Fat Fran says? His criticism of the Mets is fair and on point. But you can’t trade the core which the Mets are building around which is Santana, Pelf, Reyes, Wright, Beltran. Everyone else is fair game in my book. What in the world are you going to trade Reyes or Wright for? These guys are 25 years old and already have veteran like experience. Beltran was flat out honest a few weeks ago when they held on to beat Washington. “I know they are trying but as a player it wears on you when you get a league and next inning it is taking away from you.” Every night this was happening it has to just wear on you as a player. This bullpen was horrible.
Name me another player who the Mets can trade Reyes and Wright for who can come into NY and do better? And the few you might come up with THE OTHER TEAMS WOULD NOT TRADE.
Beltran has a full no trade claus and again look how he played in Sept.
BULLPEN BULLPEN BULLPEN
If this team has this same group in the bullpen as last year I will not watch them. Even if they add K-Rod.
Heilman, Show, Duanr, Ayila, they all have to go.
Fatcessa has plenty of gut. Maybe we can get some of his?
Francessa is dead wrong. He’s just saying it out of jealousy.
If the Mets had had the Phillies’ pen and vice versa, the Mets win the division and the Phillies are out of the playoffs and then everyone would be questioning their core. Francessa is a disingenuous, jealous and petty Yankee fan. And he’s demonstrating it today.
well said
Oh, and Rollins certainly showed no heart and guts this year.
Trade him.
Heres the thing, David Wright and Jose can change. They can learn how to play in the pressure and succeed. But you have to get them TEACHERS/COACHES to get them to this point.
You are right on … Reyes and Wright are so dam young and yet already superstars who have been around. You just don’t up and trade them.
WOW thank god fat Fran does not run our team or else Reyes would be traded for Jeter stright up just becasue Jeter use to get big hits what 8 seasons ago!!!!
How about first giving the Mets a decent pen so the offense doesn’t feel that they have to drive in 8 runs every night?
When they do that and if the core still fails, then Francessa might have a leg to stand on.
Remember the 10-9 game against the phils? Sometimes even 8 is not enough. (yes, I went there.)
Seriously? We overachieved with a 140 million dollar payroll?
I understand why people don’t like this comment, and I have read more that one article call it “loser’s lament.”, but was the team the was on the field in September really a $140M team?
I’m not totally defending it just trying to explain it a little.
Hey, maybe he’s trying to be like Hank.
But to be hones I have made the same argument in the last coulple of weeks. And noone want to hear it. ha ha.
This team has had three must win games, at home, over the last three seasons and is 0-3. The bats just didn’t show up for any of them. I love the core of this team, and still believe they can get it done with the right supporting cast, but these are the tough facts of another season ending early.
Why doesnt call in and ask fat Fran why don’t the Yanks trade away there core like Jeter for some guts and heart?
When was the last time they moved on in the playoffs?
When was the last time Jeter, Posada any of there hitters …. when was the last time they came up big when it mattered?
I personally can’t get my head around the idea of trading Reyes, Wright or Beltran, unless maybe you’re going to get Lincecum back.
But if a change needs to be made to the “core”, it logically should be Delgado. I really think he has been the “leader” of the team in the clubhouse (at least with a certain segment of the players) and not bringing him back would probably shake the place up a bit.
The only problem would be replacing that kind of production. And that’s a pretty big problem.
The idea of shaking these guys up is hillarious anyway. Yes the offense shut down but friggin Ramon Martinez was our 6 hitter. We need Delgado at 1st next season for sure.
Our problem all season long was the bullpen. Fix that first. Go out and get a #5 starter trade Heilman, Show and spend a lot of money on the pen. If they still don’t make it then start throwing away your stars.
Ok more to come tomorrow when things calm down. However, there were 2 blows that this team could not overcome. Wagner, the bullpen was already terrible and taking the closer and most consistant part of the bullpen out cost us too many games. Tatis, this guy was Mr. Clutch all season. I have no doubt that if he had been in the lineup some of those heartbreaking games would have never happen.
As for things to do for next season you have to concentrate on pitching 1st. If you can upgrade the offense after all that is settled then so be it.
Step 1
Sign Krod. We move into a new stadium and are the ONLY big name team in need of a closer. He’s young fork over the years and cash. 5/75.
Step 2
Trade Heilman and Castillo+ cash for Betancourt and Barfield. Barfield was not even on the MLB roster last season and could be a good bench backup for Murphy at 2nd. Betancourt’s contract is not great but would offset Castillo.
Trade for a guy like Scott Downs.
More to come later.
You’re going to have to do more than that. This team needs a number 2 starter behind Santana- Let Ollie go and replace him with Niese as a number 5 . Pelfrey and Maine???? are 3 & 4. You need a solid #2.
You also need a LF – solid RH bat. Who that is – not Manny! please don’t give me Nick evans either. How about matt Holliday?? You also need to seriously think about Delgado – he will be 38 – is he really worth 12 mil??? Wouldn’s Texeria be a nice fit and that allow you to be flexible in left…
I said more to come. I was going to wait but here are a few more. Offer Ollie arbitration and go after Burnette. If Ollie leaves you get the picks. If the market fails and he wants to stay so be it.
Sign Derrek Lowe to be the 5th starter. He provides innings at a cheaper price with less years.
Again, more to come.
Stay away from Burnett and Sheets as they are injury prone . They performed in their walk years and thats it. They are saying Burnett is going to get 18 million/yr. Buyer beware! Sign Lowe and Dempster/Ollie and sign Juan Cruz to setup K-Rod.
Tex way to much money … rather have delgado for a year and figure out first base in 2010. Rather put that Tex money into bullpen and other areas
Fat Boy is hating on the team to gain ratings since his show stinks since Russo left.
Lets face it. Because he’s a diehard Yankee fan, he’s also doing it to try to diminish the Mets’ homegrowns. He’s do anything to try to belittle the Mets. He’s just a small, petty man. And fat too.
lol, I love it. He’s a small, fat man.
But he sure knows how to make Met fans mad. I stopped listening to the fan (other than Met games and the schmoozer) because of him.
So then we give them 1 more shot. They don’t come through next season and it over. We can’t continue this FOREVER. Fix the bullpen, bring in Orlando Hudson and give one more chance. After that is back to the drawing board.
You really don’t want Hudson. He wants Utley type money for 5 years plus and is coming off ANOTHER surgery. Just see if Murphy can play 2nd and find a quality LF.
We needed more offense. Orlando Hudson does two things. Gets Luis Castillo out of NY and adds some much needed production from second base. I’m not completely sold on Murphy just yet, and not willing to place my faith that he will be the difference for this team. We need some new blood.
If we are stuck with Church in RF, Schneider at catcher.. Where does the new blood come from? We need need another dynamic player. Don’t think Vlad is coming to queens. And if were not willing to trade Reyes Wright Beltran,, then there is a very good chance Castillo will be on the team next season and our starting second baseman. That needs to be avoided at all costs.
Hudson does 2 key things as well. Cost us 15 million dollars that could be spent elsewhere. Gives us Roberto Alomar all over again. He is not going to be the same after 2 wrist injuries.
If you get a new LF and Murphy does not work out at 2nd then you still at least have a quality LF and only 2B as a true hole in the lineup.
There are plenty of “dynamic players” that can be had for LF, SP, and RP.
Guys I will leave you with this thought. There is a very good chance that we will have a new left fielder next season named Vlad.
The Angels are going to fork over as much as possible to keep Tex. They don’t have any real options at 1B. They have potential replacements for Krod. However, Vlad has an option left. While not that pricey it still may be a way that they find more money for Tex.
And the part that might make this come true is that he was once an Expo.
Very true there are a few players that Omar was know to like and two of them are Vlad and Krod. Hmmm I wonder if we have a need in those spots?
Dude, you can’t even make me think about that possiblity today. I am supposed to be depressed and want to trade everyone because I am miserable.
Vlad and K-Rod on the Mets would make me very happy.
He’s exactly the type of player that Keith was talking about yesterday that would grab the team by the scruff of the neck and lead them to the playoffs.
Thanks 86, from your keyboard to Omar’s inbox.
Don’t forget they still have our buddy Kendry Morales, with his 919 OPS in AAA this year. Not a great Sept, but still think the kid could be a special player if given a shot one of these years.
true, but if Tex doesn’t resign, he’ll def be playin in Anaheim next year.
I agree with Jeff Wilpon, this team definitely overchieved. consider the yankee leading our team for the first two months and no bullpen
This WIlpon quote illustrates exactly why the team will always fail.
The fish rots from the head
The Wilpons ought to be ashamed of themselves. When a 137 million dollar team misses the playoffs it’s not overachieving. Say what you want about the 2nd half versus the 1st half but this team had a 3.5 game lead with 14 or 15 left to play and lost the division by 3 games thats 6.5 games blown in that span. You call that overachieving? F U Wilpons go ruin another Franchise!!!!
Fire Minaya….Bad acquisitions hindered the team–far outweighing the good ones..Big dollars spent on aging stars was money poorly spent….who needs him…
Jeff must have flipped his wig.
“Overachievers”.
At least I have Torre and the Dodgers.
Joe Torre got a lot smarter after Manny got there….
Dodgers were the Flounders until Manny arrived.
Torre was no genius, he was adept at handling the media and ownership and left the heavy lifting to Zimmer.
Stars were aging rapidamente.
We were not over-achieving. Thje first 70 games of the season we were under-performing….the final 80 or 90 games we finally got our act together.
i said back in ‘03, as long as the Wilpons own the Mets, they will never win a championship! When Doubleday sold his shares to Fred, we were doomed forever. Does anyone remember that Piazza wouldnt have been acquired in ‘98 if Doubleday didnt overrule Wilpon and push that Marlin-Met deal through??
you’re right….the wilpons vetoed Manny at the deadline because of the potential circus. Wilpon’s won’t take any potential problems in the clubhouse, period. hence Nails, Mitchell gone and so it goes….they are putzes, as they say in the trade.
“bordering on criminal!”
Like Shelly Duncan
Wow, that brings back memories of ST.
yea…because Matt couldn’t hit a sac fly with no outs…or get a save with a 2-run lead…or not start an inning with putting two runners on with no out…or..I think you get the idea.
We overachieved if you take into effect the 1st half of the year and all of our injuries. I’d say maybe we overachieved around the all star break, but we underachieved big time in September.
Does Wilpon watch the games?