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I am shocked that people actually believe the Mets may entertain trading Jose Reyes or David Wright, two of the best young players in baseball, who are under contract at an affordable rate for the next few seasons.
That is hilarious. Of course, Omar 
Minaya didn’t help out reality when he suggested all options are on the table yesterday, as he should say, but which allows cover for this silly debate to continue.
Look, the Mets were never trading Reyes to the Twins for Johan Santana, following a poor 2007 season, so why would they trade him now, following what may be the best season of his career?
The current debate about whether to trade Wright and Reyes, which is occurring today on message boards, other blogs and talk radio, is nothing more than a fun, time-killing discussion point for what is going to be a very quiet, uneventful October for New York baseball, and I understand that – just like I understood it last October, when we were forced to listen to countless conversations about trading Reyes and shifting Wright to first to accommodate Alex Rodriguez, which, too, was never going to happen.
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The people who suggest this are totally clueless. I watched SNY sports nite last night and even THEY were suggesting it.
Whoever thinks that either of these 2 should be traded need their head examined. You don’t trade guys like Wright and Reyes. At least not while they’re under 30. If Omar trades either of them then he’s going to make the biggest GM blunder in Mets history. Yes, bigger than Kazmir.
These guys stay put. Let’s sign Tex to play first and then address pitching.
The Mets should not trade reyes or wright. there the Mets future. and reyes sparks the Mets lineup for the hole game.
It’s just Minaya spin. Everyone GM in baseball knows he is going to focus on the BP, he just has to say that the whole team will be evaluated.
How else would we be able to get KRod with Huston Street setting him up. (wink)
Exactly…Omar has to be open to everything…thats his job…but he understands that you dont improve your team by weakening it…There are holes to be filled and players need to be acquired to improve our team. You do so by adding players AROUND the talent we already have…You dont strengthen one area while weaking another
Reyes led the NL in hits this year…
And oh yeah, David Wright was 2nd in the league in hits…
Let’s trade em…great idea!
Silly, silly, silly. A team that had the two players with the most hits in the league missed the playoffs….Halfway decent pitching would have gotten it done.
Scapegoating Reyes and Wright and then trading them is ludicrous..It’s simply a product of the stupid NY media.
Unlike the clueless Mets fans that wildly overrate their own players all the while not giving a modicum of respect to their rivals. It’s a wonder that the Phillies have won the NL East two years running without any talent.
Reyes. Nice guy. Funny guy. One of the most talented players in the game. Exciting to watch. Doesn’t have a freaking clue about the game of baseball. Unlikely to ever be a member of a championship team due to the fact any team captain with a pair would have him sulking in no time.
Wright. Another nice guy. Talented. Fan favorite. Chicks dig him. Great team player. Head case. A lock to bolt at the first opportunity. Most likely to become the final piece of the puzzle for the Nationals championship team.
Beltran? It’s a shame we can’t plant coconut trees at CitiField ala the cherry trees in DC. I believe that’s a big part of his problem. There’s always the off-season, chum!
How about Pedroia? How about Ellsbury? How about Longoria? How about David Price? I guess the fact they’ll be in the playoffs must mean they don’t count.
Another fine example of Met fan logic. No wonder they keep suggesting we’re only one player away.
You are a complete and utter moron.
I second and third that!
umm david price. has he done anything yet? he’s going to be good but the fact you mention him in the same light as pedroia or longoria renders your whole post irrelevant.
take a nap.
first all – Met fan logic is an oxymoron. Being a Mets fan has never been about logic – thats for Yankee fans. Being a Mets fan is a belief system – a religion.
The rest of your post shows your complete and utter lack of knowledge or insight into this team or the fan base. The Phils won becasue they were a better team. Not becuase of “heart” or whatever you want to call it. They had a better offensive lineup, better bullpen and a closer who had a career year. That good enough for you?
Coconut trees? you don’t know jack.
You have to be crazy not to consider trading Wright.
i guess im crazy then
yeah we r gonna trade davaid wright and/or jose reyes, and ill start on opening day next season too
what debate? nobody with a brain suggested that.
who? which writer or smart fan?
smugslobcessa on the fan?
Thats the problem….many people w/out brains are suggesting it. They are also known as yankee fans.
u CANNOT trade either of them…they may be “soft” as some might say but that doesnt mean u get rid of them….u have to bring someone in whos got balls…..it doesnt help that they are playing with mr softy carlos beltran
Mr Softy Carlos Beltran? Beltran is the one guy that comes to play when the lights are on
he is soft because he hit 16 HRs his first year because the fans hurt his feelings.
What about the past 3 seasons where’s he averaged 33 HR, 112 R, 113 RBI, 22 SB while winning 2 gold gloves and on his way to a 3rd? Selective memory LetsGetMetsmerized?
There are very few players who haven’t played up to their capabilites in their 1st season after signing a huge contract in NY.. piazza, clemens, gay-rod just to name a few in recent years. The guy is awesome and one of the best CF in the game today. Stop killing him and enjoy his outstanding play on a daily basis.
Someday when his contract is over, people are going to realize what a special player we had here manning CF for 7 years. People think becasue of his contract he should bat 340 with 40HR and 130 batted in every year, but that’s not the player he is or ever has been. He could be termed soft at times when what appears to be a slight injury keeps him out for 5 days and he puts a percentage on his health, which cracks me up, but the guy played 160 games this year in a physically demanding position. he’s also got the best post season #’s of anyone on this team.
Beltran is the only guy who showed up on Sunday.
I agree that Beltran is a great talent who puts up gaudy stats when healthy and not upset about something, but I was just pointing the proof that he is overly sensitive and soft regarding fan treatment. Pressure doesn’t get to him so I think he is great — as long as he is loved.
spare me with that. where’s your proof? the curtain call in EARLY ‘06? he’s done absolutely nothing to show that he’s nearly as sensitive as the haters would like to perceive him to be.
it’s amazing what people will cling onto in order to validate their weak arguments.
I thought Mr Softy was in your pants?
I’m out if we trade Reyes or Wright.
seriously! me too.
x3.
Reyes had a good year but it wasn’t even close to his 2006 season. Not even close.
Um, sure it was.
He was the first player in the history of MLB to have at least 200 hits, 15 triples, 15 HR, steal 50 bags and score 100 runs in a season. Sign me up for that anytime.
actually it was real close
it wasn’t if you are clueless.
how about leading the league in hits and triples? how about being in the top five in runs and sb’s too.
he had more rbi than hanley ramirez and his 30+ hr’s
plus being a great glove a premium defensive position.
Did you even bother to look at the statistics?
no…he did not.
It was very close. In fact he had more hits this season.
Reyes’ 2006 and 2008 were statistically virtually identical.
Please make this the last post about trading Wright and Reyes…please. It’s just nonsense.
They are our cornerstones. Big market teams do not trade cornerstones, they build around them…
I understand why people are saying this. Look — they are not going anywhere, but the reason it is brought up is because everyone agrees that SOMETHING has to change about this team. You can repair the things that cause us to be in a position we should not have been in the final week, but it doesn’t change the fact that in the playoffs we’d lose a must-win game due to pressing too hard, like we did in 2006. The bullpen merely accelerated the inevitable to the regular season finale. This team lacks a leader and I think the reason you hear all these rumors is because uncreative people have no idea how to make wholesale changes without ripping out the center. They think the only way to change the team around completely is to tear out something in the middle.
You sign and trade Delgado, sign Tex, turn Alou, Pedro, OP, Duque money into CC or another stud pitcher, sign a couple of top relievers like Fuentes/Gregg types and other middle guys, let Omar make his Omar-esque under the radar moves and cross our fingers that they land us gems this time around, and let Manuel pick his staff for the first time in years (bench chemistry is huge), get a LFer like Burrell, and you have changed a LOT without touching Reyes, Wright, Beltran.
and yes, this raises payroll, but that too is a move that displays change in culture.
Sure, why not? Just make sure you save your progress before turning off the Playstation.
Because Omar has never overpaid for guys like Tex and CC before…
We got Pedro and Beltran during Omar’s first year.
Wagner and Delgado the next.
Santana last year.
You’re suggesting we get C.C., Tex, Fuentes AND Burrell?
I can understand 1. MAYBE 2, but all 4 of them?
Again, turn off the Playstation and join the rest of us in reality..
I thought his post was pretty good. He is trading Delgado and dumping a lot of money and raising payroll about $20mil. He never said sign Burrell, he said get a LFer, which could also be done via trade. By my accounting his moves would increase payroll about $20 mil, which would be possible if the Wilpons want to make a statement about the losses.
And if you disagree with his ideas, fine. You don’t have to insult him. Your last line was unnecessary and only showed you as a bully.
tex will resign with the Angels and the Yankees will sign C.C.
They have 90 million coming off the books and lack that ace that they think defines them…
I agree. I think the Mets will have to be more creative. I was mostly pointing out that HOFMets57 didn;t need to inject what he thought was humor in an effort to make someone else feel bad.
People say trade Wright, Reyes and Beltran because they’re upset and lose the ability to string together logic and construct a rational thought or plausible idea
I just think there’s much more to it than “signing this guy and trading that guy”.
Also, I’ve always been amused by the fans perspective on who is and is not a leader in the clubhouse.
maybe I’m too black and white, but the reason we didn’t make the playoff is because we rolled out bench players to our corner outfield for a good portion of the season and our bullpen is constructed entirely of specialists. We also allowed the Willie saga to drag on way too long.
Leader or not, it was our core players that pushed them as far as they did.
But in no way should we trade Reyes, Wright, or Beltran. Sorry Beltran haters but he’s by far and away the best player on this team.
I don’t get it either…Beltran’s a top tier CF’r.
Gimme Reyes, Wright and Beltran any day…people need to realize that these players are not the problem.
Know nothing fans and blowhard media types in looking for a scapegoat, have chosen these 3. Most, if not all other teams in MLB should be so lucky to have a core like these 3.
They’re not complete blowards.
They’re Yankee fans.
Oh, wait. They’re one in the same..
They are not the problem…the people AROUND them are the problem…
Why create holes when there are already a few to be filled?
Yes, the people around them are the problem, but a major thing people realize is that none of these three are leaders of a team. That doesn;t mean you trade them either. Doc and Darryl were not leaders, but as good as Keith and Gary were, guess who was announced later on Sunday — Doc and Darryl were still the core. Delgado is no Keith or Gary. So you make the tertiary players around the core of Reyes, Wright and Beltran people that lead. 86 also had Ray Knight and brought in Maz and even had Rusty around. This team has Easley and mayeb Schneider has some leadership in him, but none of these guys have won squat like Keith did, and none were the emotional leader like Gary was.
This is why I want Tex so badly, and why I want Anaheim to win the WS so he brings a ring with him. Where Omar finds the emotional leader I don’t know.
Teixeira has NEVER been considered a ‘leader.’ Sure, he puts up stats, but I view him in the same light as I do Delgado.
I agree, but remember, Keith Hernandez was traded to the Mets because Whitey thought he had become a cancer to his team. He became a leader as he got older, and if Tex wins this year, he will have more to offer the kids than Delgado ever could from his losing days in Toronto. Not to mention he is 6 or 7 years younger and a better hitter, and a switch hitter, and better at defense.
plus the drug issue.
Analogy to Hernandez with Texiera is bad.
Texiera is a younger version of Delgado, and there is nothing wrong with that, but you are not getting a magic leader button from a guy who played in Texas and Atlanta during the worst two years in Atlanta since 1989 and 1990.
I’ll always wonder how big a role that great leader Keith Hernandez played in ruining the careers of the Dead End Kids through cocaine abuse.
I would probably argue that Johan is the best player on the team, but your argument does have some merit. Beltran is the best center fielder in the game, hands down. I welcome anyone who doesnt agree with that to bring up a name that is better.
someone is going to say sizemore except for the fact that he really fell off in the second half.
sizemore is not there yet. it’s my boy, beltran, and will be for a few more years.
would you trade beltran for sizemore if cleveland was wanting to just shake the tree and take on the extra money for the slightly better player
I’d make the trade only because Sizemore is younger. As it stands today (and in 2009) Beltran is a better player. No argument.
Grady Sizemore is at least in the discussion.
After that, I can’t think of anyone.
im no beltran hater….but he is not “far and away” the best player on this team
i say he is. as all around player, he’s better than both wright and reyes. wright may be better offensively but he’s still not up there defensively. reyes comes closest given the importance of his position.
You can’t compare a guy like Jose Reyes to anyone. He has a unique skill set that no one else in the game has ever displayed. If anything, he is a true MVP, simply because no one can match his overall production. Some hit for high average, some hit for power, some steal bases, some score runs, some hit triples, some hit doubles, but no one does it all like Jose.
Beltran is a great player. If you’re comparing him to anyone, compare him to other center fielders, compare him to Bernie Williams in his prime. Is that not a player you would love to build your team around? Come on, give the guy his due.
Can we please add Beltran to that list?
Don’t worry…a Beltran trade is so ridiculous it doesn’t even merit mentioning.
people who are making these ridiculous trade proposals are either a) not met fans b) yankee shills c) met fans with a yankee-esque sense of entitlement
or d) all of the above.
I personally don’t want to trade either. I think they need to clean house by dumping all of the fringe guys. But what I really don’t like about these discussions is that their are no acutal trade proposals being made. Just yelling out “Trade Wright!” with no suggestion of what they would get back is just worthless. It’s not even a discussion it’s just stupid.
we’re not even through the playoffs. you’ve got quite a while to go before the hot stove league even begins to warm up.
Or incredibly jealous Yankee fans who can’t bear the thought of a Mets dynasty, BUILT around 2 HOMEGROWN studs.
Sorry, Mike. It’s only a matter of time before Jeter, Pettitte and Posada are 40 somethings, clogging up an already bloated lineup.
A Mets “DYNASTY”
You stupid f**kwit.
You’re even daring to throw “dynasty” around is gobsmackingly asinine.
Make the playoffs 2x in a row at least before you go overboard.
chill buddy. it’s time for your meds.
I didn’t see the Phillies trying to trade Utley and Howard when they lost in 06. Its a ludicrous suggestion.
Look, the Mets had adequate starting pitching and one of the worst bullpens of any team in contention I have ever seen. When you blow leads up to nine runs and a 6 run lead isn’t considered in the bag, you have a problem. Had the Mets had an average bullpen they would have or could have won 100 games easily. They were never blown out in games.
That being said, they, for the most part are strong enough to compete. They have some holes needing to be filled. Most notably corner outfield and second base. Although I think Murphy is the 2B solution. They probably also need to beef up their bench.
Also, I do believe they need to get younger at first and on the staff. They also need more pop at first. Delgado was great when he was great and worthless when he wasn’t.
Eh, the starting pitching was crappy just as much as the bullpen. You take Johan off the stat sheet, and there isn’t a guy with a below 4 ERA. Maine was lost for the last 2 months and Ollie didn’t come close to duplicating 2007. I don’t even want to talk about Pedro. This team needs a legitimate #2 starter. A big market team NEEDS and CAN AFFORD to run a guy out there at #2 who would be #1 on half of the other teams. Johan is not enough. Mike Pelfrey was the second best pitcher on this team in 2008. If I told you that last February you’d call me a fool. Before the bullpen is addressed, the starting pitching needs to be addressed. I’m done with Ollie, I can’t watch him pitch 4 no hit innings and then walk 4 guys to start the 5th. It’s too draining. I can’t watch Pedro. I love him and he’s a great pick-me-up personality, but hey, if it’s about winning, then we need a guy who can pitch better than 5 innings of 3 run ball. I’m undecided on Maine, but the fact is, he’s a #4 guy at best.
And through all the talk of our farm system, it really was exposed when pitchers got injured and there was NO ONE credible to come up and replace them. Let’s pick up a couple of GOOD, solid pitchers who can burn through 190+ innings and give this team a real chance to win. No wonder the team is collapsing, EVERYONE is overworked…
“You take Johan off the stat sheet, and there isn’t a guy with a below 4 ERA”
Pelfrey finished with a 3.72 ERA
I want to stir the pot a little bit:
Wright for Utley straight up. Utley’s our 2B, Daniel Murphy plays 3B.
Not saying I would even do this if I was GM, but my Dad and I were talking strange trades last night and that one had a certain ring to it.
um, no, I’d like to hit in front of Ryan Howard too
In terms of value…its not that bad…but it term of logistics..never…I dont think we will ever make a trade with the Phillies.
Wright to ever be entertained in a trade we would need someone behind him thats blocked…and thats a few years down the road…you cant entertain trades of that magnitude w/o having someone to replacement that kind of production…and if you get that in return for the trade, then whats the point of making it?
can you say hell to the no?
you are crazy.
david’s numbers with risp are much better than utley’s.
and chase utely is old. and he’s not as good as david in anyway at all. not even close.
and wright is a tremendous 3rd baseman. crazy.
Utley isn’t THAT old (30 at the end of the year), but it is a valid point. Wright hasn’t even entered his prime yet and has put up similar/better numbers than Utley the past few season who is currently in his prime.
thank you! that’s the part i laugh at. do people realise the phillies’ guys are peaking? rollins is 28, utley 30 and howard 29.
reyes 25, wright 26, beltran 31. two of three mets haven’t reached their peak yet!
Lets trade a 25 year old gold glove 3b for a 30 years old 2B. Nice move. I want you to be my personal GM.
Utley is 29; Wright is 25.
Wright is statistically superior to Utley, though you could argue that adjusted for position, Utley has been better. Then again, Wright at 30 might put up a /.330/.430/.570 type of season.
I agree that they need to beef up their bench. Let’s just say that on Sunday, Church got a hit and now there are 2 men on. Do you remember who was up to pinch hit? The immortal Brian Schneider. Nuff said. Delgado is now an affordable valuable commodity and will be perfect to send to an American League team in a package for a corner outfielder. I would send him back to Toronto for Vernon Wells.
I was hoping Church was gonna belt one…and he did give one a ride. Just like my feeling with cliff floyd in game 7.
Please explain how dealing 38 HRs and 115 RBI and turning them into 20 HR and 80 RBI is going to work out and oh btw…Wells plays center field.
Wells can play LF just fine. Also Wells hit .300 and only played in 100 or so games due to injury. You can’t compare their total stats this season. Not to mention that he is much younger.
Wells is 30, he has already gone through what should have been the front half of his prime years, look what he did in 150 games in 2007, with 150 more at-bats.
I don’t think adding an inconsistent offensive player who was hurt this year is a really solid addition to the Mets problem.
why would toronto trade vernon wells?
The Blue Jays would LOVE to trade Vernon Wells, trust me. The problem is more of who the hell would want Vernon Wells at the moment with his rapidly declining production, defense and all the years and money left on his contract.
Take a look at his numbers this season. He is not in rapid decline. He hit .300 but did not play a full season. Factor those out and it’s .300 28 HR’s 100+ RBI.
you know this how. the guy is a stud who put up decent numbers after being hurt a chunk of the season. vernon wells isn’t going anywhere.
why does everyone think toronto is chomping at the bit to trade their guys. with the yankees down, they’re going to do everything in their power to close the gap. they’ve got great young pitching and just need to solidify the rest of the lineup and now you think they’re going to trade wells or halladay? why not throw in alexis rios too!
Yo Zen did you look at the statistics? Look what reyes did with runners on in 2006 compared to 2008? Im not saying by any means that Reyes had a bad year. Im saying he was much better in 2006 as he did almost everything statistically a little better but also came through in the clutch seemingly every time. Did you watch? the games in 2006 its not even close to the 2008 guy that popped the ball up to the shortstop in almost every clutch situation.
wrong. go look at the stats. 2008 holds up very well to 2006.
yo!
buy a vowel: cl_ _l_ss
I like when people over inflate small sample sizes.
To say that Reyes was MUCH better in 2006 vs. 2008 is just silly.
To start in 2006 he had about 15 more total chances with RISP and 2 outs, in 2008 if he had just 3 more hits his average in that scenario would be virtually the same.
Plus you have to examine who was hitting 7th and 8th in 2006 vs. 2008.
And it is a total exaggeration to say he popped the ball to short in almost every clutch situation based on nothing statisitcal, his outs are even if not slightly toward ground outs in the spots considered clutch.
Who cares, each year was good and he should not be traded.
not to mention that paul loduca hit .318 behind reyes. this year he had castillo behind him much of the year. or other lesser players. why would they give reyes a good pitch to hit.
Reyes was the best clutch hitter on the Mets this year.
If anything should concern you about Reyes, it’s the disappearance of his glove in ‘08. But that’s probably an aberration.
I’m glad to see that pretty much all of the commentors agree that trading either of these guys is insane. I would also include Beltran on that list without hesitation (Johan as well, of course)
Hey, Beltran has a no-trade clause. Did you “trade Beltran” types forget that? A full no-trade clause. That was the deal-maker when we signed him. (The money didn’t hurt, either.) So, again, Beltran is not going anywhere unless he wants to. And I don’t think he wants to.
Delgado is the guy the Mets should trade. Pick up the option and trade him.
we don’t need to deal beltran, wright or reyes.
what we do need is:
- schoe, heilman and castillo jettisoned
- 2-3 arms in the pen, including a closer
- Murphy transitioned to 2B and a power bat in Left
- Ollie resigned and a veteran 5th
- 2-3 solid veteran bench players
Manny won’t sign here and I’ve completely bought into the K-Rod hype, although his value and production can do nothing but decrease.
also…with expiring contracts and such, i’m guessing Omar has roughly 40-45 million to work with for 09…
Ollie shouldn’t be resigned. He’s a #4 who’s going to demand #2 money/years. No thanks.
Problem is K-Rod is going to be extremely overvalued this year.
I would rather wait a year to see how the bullpen situation develops and see if we can find a better deal in ‘10, but then again, you’d have to examine ‘10 first.
The idea of this team thinking about trading the leaders and future super-stars of the Mets, the players that every fan comes to each game to watch, is preposterous. Both players are MVP-caliber players, along with Beltran and Delgado, and still will have their better years ahead of them. Let’s not start acting like the Yankees and trade away our home grown players for old, money obsessed, self-absorbed losers. End these rumors and thoughts around potentially trading these guys. If it is talked about enough and becomes a popular topic, Wilpon (Jeff) and Minaya will have to act on it, just like every other “popular” decision they have made in the past.
Correct except it’s worse. They are current superstars.
People are stunned and angry and are saying things that you would expect to come from stunned and angry people.
You can’t trade Reyes, Wright, or Beltran…period. They are three of the best players in the game.
It sickens me to think about it, but I want them to shop Reyes this off season. Yes, he’s our spark plug – but he’ll bring us a king’s ransom in a trade. Plus, trading him tells everyone else on the team that no one’s untouchable. They can either step up, or they’ll be gone.
No. Keep Reyes. Trade Delgado.
there is no way you can get rid of those 2 guys. People are so unrealistic sometimes … these are the same people who always ask why couldn’t Minaya get Manny or Fuentes for a bucket of balls
Trade Delgado to an AL team. Fill holes.
Replace Delgado with Manny Ramirez.
Not unrealistic at all.
I’m a little confused…Are you suggesting that they pick up Delgado’s option, then trade him? What do you expect to get back?
Yes, pick up his very affordable option that would be very attractive to AL teams … and trade him.
I didn’t think about what exactly to get back … but the Mets can get a good return on him, right now.
The thing is, the option is more affordable to us because it’s essentially 8MM but to other teams it would be a 12MM contract and that might make it harder to deal him…Also, who do you have play 1st? We have enough holes on this team we don’t need to create another one.
Eat a portion of it. Who cares?
Sign Manny to play LF. This replaces Delgado’s production and changes the dynamic of the team.
With Manny, you don’t worry about who plays first. Play Evans, who is a very good defensive first baseman. If you don’t have faith in him … find him a platoon partner .. possibly someone gotten in a Delgado deal.
Or maybe you get some bullpen arms for Delgado.
You want to change something? You want to keep Reyes, Wright and Beltran? This is the ONLY way to go.
Here’s another idea … convert Fernando Martinez to play 1B. Teach him the position now.
Yeah great idea then we can go get another Kaz Matsui to play shortstop please. Reyes is irreplaceable.
So you want to bring back the same core group of guys that’s now failed 2 years in a row in spectacular fashion? At the same time, trade pretty much the only on field leader we have?
That sounds real smart. The clubhouse atmosphere needs to be changed, and it won’t be if we bring back the same group of guys. I want Delgado for one more year. I’d like to see what we can get for Reyes. I’m not saying we have to deal him, but if we shop him and find a great deal we should take it.
The ONLY player I would consider trading Reyes for is Tim Lincecum.
And I stress *consider*
Trade Wright and Reyes for whom?
Change the club atmosphere at what cost?
You act as though we can get a player of the caliber of a David Wright or a Jose Reyes out of thin air to replace them.
“You have to change the culture because this culture isn’t working” is a cop out. It’s an act of impulsive frustration. It’s thoughtless. Go ahead and change the culture. See how much the team improves. It won’t. You are misdiagnosing the problem.
The only players in baseball who’s value is comparable to David Wright’s when you factor in defense, age, and production are Hanley Ramirez and Joe Mauer–leaving aside Albert Pujols who is a modern-day Ted Williams with good defense. Chase Utley? He’s 5 years older, puts up inferior offensive numbers, and for what it’s worth (which isn’t much) was possibly the worst clutch hitter in baseball this year by any metric–look it up; it’s true. Holiday? Coors splits–pushing thirty–easy position–inferior offensively when park factors are accounted for. Aramis? He’s older and his best year does not measure up to David Wright’s worst–which is not really valid because Wright puts up the same superstar numbers every year. Miggy Cabrera? Head case. Waist problem. Could not cut it defensively at 3rd so had to be moved to 1st. And the edge he has on Wright offensively is overblown. It’s there, but it’s slight. ARod? His numbers are only moderately better and he’s 8 years older and makes a ludicrous amount of money. Ryan Howard? Pushing 30, inconsistent offensively. Useless defensively. The list of players less valuable than Wright includes virtually all players in baseball. Only Mauer and Hanley compare, and you’d simply be trading franchise players with another team.
Maybe we should have another debate
who gets traded first
heilman or slappy
Heilman of course. He’s got much more value than Castillo. The only way we get rid of Castillo is if we package him in with someone who’s in demand.
You mean like tieing Slappy and Aaron together in a trade? The Cubs or Rockies are possibilities.
People are overreacting. This is comical there is more talk about how to trade our young superstars who i love, instead of who we should get for the bullpen.
I’m sure you guys don’t need to hear this.
But with a decent bullpen we finish this year with at least a 5 game lead in the east.
You cant at look at one game and say we didn’t hit . . . blah blah
Our hitters put us in a position to win many times and our bullpen blew it many times. We would not even question our hitters if it weren’t for the bullpens poor performance.
Lets stop talking about stupid pointless issues like trading our 1,2, and 4 hitter. Thats like saying we should trade Seaver.
Lets talk about who we should get.
just wanted to give a shoutout to all the new friends i made sunday
and while i dont think either of these will ever happen be prepared to hear alot about it especially wright for the following reasons
1. wright struggled mightily at times this year with RISP
2. they were apart of both last years meltdown as well as this years and people are going to say that when the core of your team continues to let yuou down you need to change it
we are gonna hear this crap all offseason…….so get used to it
but again i dont think itll ever happen
I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but Francessa kept saying that the Phillies core keeps winning and the Mets core doesn’t, but what he fails to realize is the Phillies core is much older than the Mets’. I believe the Phillies core was older in ‘06 than the Mets core is now. Howard was rather old for a rookie of the year right? The Mets core just needs time. I actually feel rather confident about next year because our holes are very clearly identified (bullpen, 2b, LF) and Murphy most likely fills 2B or LF. These positions should be easy to fill with decent players…its not like we need a CF, shortstop or 3rd base man lol.
You are correct. Howard, Rollins, Utley,Werth, Burrell are all around 28-30, smack in the middle of their prime, older than Reyes, Wright, Murphy, Pelfrey, etc.
The problem is at 23, the Wright Reyes (and Beltran Delgado) core got to game 7 of the NLCS. So even though they are where they should be at this age, it isn’t acceptable since of what they did at a young age. Of course there are other factors at play like good bullpen: 06 and bad bullpen: 08
Francesca is also a old, irrelevant Yankees fan, so… there you go.
How about we just Leave Heilman at shea for demolition day. God knows how far his value has dropped.
Howsabout selling Heilman off with a couple of chairs from Shea.
Why is it so “hilarious,” and “ridiculous,” to think about trading Wright? He has the most value as trade bait as anyone on our team.
- He has proven he is not clutch, and cannot handle the pressure. Why do people like to bury their head in the sand when it comes to Wright, but people will jump all over A-rod about him not being clutch?
- You are telling me if the mets could somehow sign Delgado and trade Delgado and Wright to the Cards for Pujols, you wouldn’t do it in a heartbeat? And then possibly sign Holliday the following year? A middle of the lineup of Holliday and Pujols won’t fold down the stretch like Delgado and Wright do – Plus they have both been to a world series, one of them winning one.
- Why should I have to sit through season after season with the same cast of heartless characters just to choke the last day?
- Insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different outcome.
- People who think Wright is untouchable are those who are like little kids who don’t want to see their favorite player moved for anything, and at the same time turn a blind eye to the fact that he is not a winning player.
> – Insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different outcome.
No, that’s actually just stupidity. Or loyalty. Insanity is something else altogether.
Surprised not to see the back page idea about CC all over this blog today.
Johan + CC + Big Pelf + Maine….
Because he is only 25 and not yet in his prime, puts up excellent numbers, and is locked up for a reasonable price?
Ok so I’ll just give him 3 or 4 more years to strike out in the big spot, then I will think about trading him after he goes through arbitration and will cut down the number of teams who would be willing to take on his contract. Can’t wait until 2012.
Cool.
You’ll make an outstanding GM one day.
Lol you will too, “man that David Wright is way cool, I won’t trade him for the world, I don’t care how many big games he strikes out in, he’s my man.”
good luck choking for the next 3-4 years.
I’m sure you are one of those people who think its just the players around our core that are the problem. Lets go get a catcher with some fire, then we will hit in the clutch.
you, sir, have a problem. you have three pillars and you want to trade them for uncertain quantities? you surround your core with rfinge players to put them over the top.
have we learned nothing from the keith hernandez and gary carter trades?
I didn’t know Pujols was an uncertain quantity. I said Pujols before, I wouldn’t trade Wright without bringing a proven star back.
Cardinals are still rebuilding. I am sure they would consider taking a cheap Wright and plugging in a cheap Delgado, and trading us Pujols. Even with the age difference, anyone who would rather have Wright for the next 5 or 6 years than Pujols is really drinking the kool-aid.
Pujols is 28 and CHEAP, why would the Cardinals trade him, where in the world do you get they are rebuilding from?
With a series of terrible injuries to their pitching staff they still competed for their division a good portion of the year.
You want to trade Wright and Delgado, fine, at least make a believable argument not built around your flimsy perception that St. Louis is rebuilding.
Fantasy baseball is great thanks for playing.
You too. You are the guy who drafts Wright with your first pick and won’t trade him to anyone because he’s so dreamy.
Actually dim one, I don’t play fantasy baseball because it makes morons out of humans like you.
It is comical in one breath you talk about how much David Wright and Carlos Delgado are choke artists, and in the next St. Louis is just going to hand you the best position player the team has ever produced for them.
It is just brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
Why didn’t we all think of this. Why didn’t we do this at the trading deadline, or last year, or the year before that.
It is okay for you to hate David Wright, but you do not have to be an absolute moron about it on the same side of a coin.
And you are the guy who takes a couple of hits from the bong before you get on the site. Take another puff, loser! Become a fan of some other team, sellout!
What about Ibanez, who they shoulda got at the deadline? I know he’s old but he played 162 this year, and has a good track record for playing games. Knocked in 110, with 43 doubles, could be a solid left fielder.
I probably sound like a hypocrit since I think we need to get younger and cheaper, but if you could get this guy for a year or two I think it’d be worth it. Course you take the chance he’s Shawn Green or Alou.
Need a RH hitter for LF. Not a bad thought if you could switch his arms. I know he handled LH very well last season but that was an exception to his norm.
Francessa is so clueless. Saying the phillies have won and this mets team hasn’t won anything. This mets team has won 6 more playoff games than the phillies. Obviously that may change this year but im just stating the facts.
He likes to ignore the facts when they get in his way.
There has to be some value for each player (anyone suggesting that they cannot be traded even if someone overpays is missing the point of improving the mets). For example: I would consider moving Wright for Pedroia and Lowell. If you still would say no, maybe if they throw Papelbon in you’d make the trade? If that doesn’t work for you, then you are blinded by your love of Wright.
There are no absolutes. I agree, they should be not be traded for equal or lesser value, but if someone wants to overpay why not?
How can you fix the problem if your not willing to make changes. This team core has had 4 years to pull something off and they can’t do it. Everything should be on the table.
I don’t think you can move Wright because he is so much more to this team then just a good hitting 3rd basemen. He is the face of this franchise. Beltran makes too much money to get good value back. That leaves Reyes. Reyes is by far my favorite player, but put into the business perspective he would be the best person to move. He make a low salary, he doesn’t have enough in the tank for the end of the season and as he gets older his speed will decrease which will severely devalue him.
If they can get the right package without being impulsive then he should be thought about. This main group cannot get wheeled out for a 5th with expectations of winning.
agreed…how many years do we give its team with core superstars to not make the playoiffs….
Reyes to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez are the main components of the deal I would do. Delgado can be exercised and then traded for shortstop and if you could get another team involved, I would do Christian Guzman
I wouldn’t touch anyone whos made a career at coors field. Please everyone whos interested in Holliday please take a look at his numbers on the road as they are average at best. Holliday is no David Wright.
I agree! I want change but not that kind of change. He would not make it out of his Shea contract live.
That is a stupid arguement. Just because somebody is on the Rockies doesn’t mean they are talented. If David Wright happened to play at Coors, would you say that his talent was a product of Coors Field. And anyways, nobody, at least me, is comparing Holliday to Wright. You are right about the fact that Holliday is no D-Wright, but if we can get Holliday for a reasonable price, why not? He is a good hitter, maybe not as good as his stats show, but he would definately be an upgrade over who we have in left field now. He would be a great hitter in the Mets lineup.
Reyes
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Holliday
or
Reyes
Holliday
Delgado
Wright
Beltran
This is a very dangerous lineup, depending on if Delgado returns and if he stays productive.
This might sound crazy, but the Mets need to bring up and keep these young guys and let them make mistakes (Carp, Parnell, Kunz, Niese, Evans, Murphy, etc). Getting experience in the minors is great, but bringing some of them up in SepTember and throwing them into the fire isn’t the answer. They need to be members of the opening day roster and worked them in to the identity of this team, get big game experience and work together to build a solid foundation to put around the big 3 or 4.
I wouldn’t rush F-Mart, but let him get some opportunities early on. We don’t need Marlin Anderson or a 3rd catcher taking up roster spots.
Hey what do you guys think of this. It is being reported that this offseason the D-Backs are going to be looking to trade Eric Byrnes. He has 2 years left on his contract for a combined 22 million. They have a young OF and don’t seem to have a place for him.
It is being reported they would look to dump his contract for another contract that can help them.
Luis for Eric has been mentioned.
I think that would be a great trade for the Mets. Byrnes is the type of player the Mets need. Tuff, gritty, firery type of guy. Right hand bat to play left felid for a year or two until F-Mart is ready. Great club house guy. I think he would be a great fit for this team. What do you guys think?
I’d go get Byrnes, absolutely.
Byrnes definitely has the attitude this team needs. He had a tough injury plagued season this year but he should come back around. The good thing to is the Mets can probably get him without having to give up too much.
I mentioned or replied to that earlier. Great idea. They will need a 2nd baseman when Hudson leaves.
I am not sure just Castillo gets it done but it should not cost much more.
I’d go get Byrnes in a heartbear, a$$uming he can recover from this injury. He has heart, fire, wouldn’t let Reyes get away with the crap and does a little of anything. You could slide him in the 2 or add speed to the bottom of the order.
Reyes
Murphy
Wright
Delgado
Beltran
Byrnes
Evans/Tatis/Whomever
Schneider
P
Byrnes has tremendous stolen base potential. You could score a million runs with Reyes and him at the top 2, or have Byrnes hit 6-7th and have a 2nd threat in the bottom half.
If ur planning on keeping Reyes and Wright and Beltran…you gotta add someone at least better than Byrnes….this team needs another big time player in this lineup….and if you cant make an addition then u gotta ponder trading 1 of hte 3 for a different star player
What happen to Church? I think Church will be just fine next season.
Thus your lineup would be
Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Delgado, Murphy, Byrnes, Church, Schnieder/Castro.
dude Church sux…hes a decent player at best…hes not gonna help this team WIN kinda like he didnt do anything down the stretch this year
I did not say he is a superstar but saying he was bad down the stretch is like saying he is a superstar because of his 1st half. Chances are he’s right in the middle and would be a great 7 hitter with excellent RF defense at a cheap price. That’s fine for me.
people continue to fail to understand that its these guys like Church that we pickup that make hte team fail…you guys are treating this like its the same year as last year…last year everyone was saying lets bring in another decent solid OFer to compliment our core and we’ll be fine…we brought in church and look what happened…now this offseason we’ll bring in a guy like Ibanez or Byrnes and THE SAME THING WILL HAPPEN AGAIN
Not if we fix the pen and the SP situation Airfeet. It may still happen but it’ won’t be because we did not sub out Church for Evans.
It’s not the point of Church being great, it’s the replacement factor. You don’t have to have a team full of allstars. Church’s league average production for cheap is very important to other goals.
false
What part is false Aft? Who is going to play RF for you? Church is not the problem. So you are saying that you want the Yankee’s with a superstar at every position. How many superstars do the Phillies even have? Even the Cubs? You have to have role players and Church will be fine in that role. Look around the league at #7 hitters numbers and factor in Church’s normal production for a year and see what you get.
no, you keep church. he’s a supporting player that this team needs. he’s not a core guy.
i don’t wanna see church or schneider anywhere near this team next year. church embodied the offensive ineptitude that plagued this team the last week, hitting .190 and striking out 9 times in 21 ABs, including 6 of his last 7 in the two most important games of his career. schneider was so bad jerry didn’t even start him in either of the last two critical games. his defense/game-calling was supposed to offset his anemic offense. that never happened. another metsblog poster said the mets lost 13 of the last 15 games he started. if we’re looking to change a “losing culture” around queens, start with them and luis.
This notion that Reyes or Wright are completely untouchable is the most ridiculous thing imaginable. Nobody is untouchable, with the possible exception of a Pujols or a Santana. Jose Reyes should definitely be considered a tradeable commodity if a really good defensive shortstop could be obtained to replace him. Leadership should come from the shortstop and catcher positions and the Mets are weak there. Reyes is still an undisciplined, unintelligent player who relies on pure talent and that isn’t enough to win championships, as A-Rod as also shown over the years. If we could get a slugging outfielder and a young pitcher for Reyes, plus sign Orlando Hudson for the top of the order, any serviceable shortstop can do the job. Remember Rafael Santana? Kevin Elster? Bud Harrelson, Rey Ordonez? Were those guys big hitters? If we are going to change the culture of the team to one of clutch players and leaders, Reyes should be considered tradeable.
Wow.
I agree….now someone brought up a possibility of Reyes and FMart for Tulowitzki and Holliday as a possible trade and I originally thought no way..but the more I thought about it the more i liked it….and lets not forget these 2 single handedly brought the rockies to the world series
and i Think WRight would respond much better with Tulowitzki and Holliday around him…i think hed feel way more comfortable around them
How does this trade make sense for the Rockies at all? Considering that a year ago Tulowitzki had just as good of a year that Reyes has had. He is just as young and signed to a long term deal. Oh yes and the Rockies wanted way more then just F-Mart for Holiday.
And look at Holiday’s numbers away from Coors.
i think the rockies would rather have REYES than Tulowitzki…and so if the rockies want more we’ll throw in a carp or some other freak in our farm system
You think the Rockies would rather have Reyes? Why is that? Did they let you know that? Tulowitzki is just as good as Reyes. He was not healthy this year that is all. Reyes has more speed Troy has more power that is it. Who is going to be our lead off man after this trade? And when Holiday comes in plays for a year then leaves as a free agent then what?
Why don’t we just not pick up Delgado’s option and trade Reyes and Fmart to the Twins for Mauer and Morneau becasue the Twins rather have Reyes.
I guess people are not buying into the numbers that state when Reyes goes the Mets go. When he is in there leading off and getting on base scoring runs the Mets record is outstanding. When he is not getting on the Mets record not so good.
So that being said who comes in and leads off for this team and can get on base and be the spark plug to this team?
Fine.
But make no mistake – 2009 is a referendum on the Reyes/Wright core.
And if (when) they fail in 2009, you’ll hear this conversation again.
Only then, you’ll see some action as well.
At that point I would agree to trade Beltran.
Nope.
Bring them all back for 2009.
Then there’s no excuses for any of them
You did not read. I said AT THAT POINT meaning failing in 2009 I would trade Beltran. I know he has a no trade but I am sure one could convince him to waive it.
You’re right….I didn’t read!
At that point, nobody will be safe though
No trade claus for Beltran he is not going anywhere
so u know he wont waive it?
First off what player are you going to trade Carlos for? Second how do you know he would waive it? Why would he when the whole reason he is here and not in Houston was the fact that he wanted a no trade claus and Houston would not give it to him.
cuz we collapsed 2 years ago and he wouldnt wanna stay somewhere where he is unwanted if they ask him if he’ll waive his no trade clause….OBVIOUSLY
So he rather go where? To the Rockies a worse team then the Mets? Where and for who are going to trade Carlos the best CF in baseball to? Who is going to paly CF for us then
you are a moron, if every team operated on your referendum premise they would trade their two best youngest players every time they missed the playoff for two years, regardless of their level of performance…
I mean honestly, I am as frustrated with Wright as anyone, but your suggestion is trade him because…
Billy Wagner blew 7 saves in 2/3 of a season?
Aaron Heilman lost more games than Johan Santana, Oliver Perez and as many as John Maine?
I actually Agree with Furioso…make this core come back 1 more year..and if and when they fail…there wont be any excuses, no if ands or buts…and we can ship either 1 or both of them off immediately when the season ends
But that would not leave you room to change the team. LOL. You go back and forth more than a clock.
i dont understand what ur saying…why wouldnt it leave us room to change the team??
For next season Airfeet.
airfeet is apparently gunning for most irrational, clueless poster of the offseason award.
I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but it may be time to move Reyes down in the order. If we can get a left-fielder with lead-off qualities, Reyes could bat third in the order.
I think Jose’s extra base hits are being wasted with such poor 7-9 hitters. A line-up or one like negates the 3 automatic outs we had this year.
Lead-off
Murphy
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Church
Catcher
Pitcher
Reyes is not a 3 hitter…cant be serious
I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but it may be time to move Reyes down in the order. If we can get a left-fielder with lead-off qualities, Reyes could bat third in the order.
I think Jose’s extra base hits are being wasted with such poor 7-9 hitters. A line-up or one like negates the 3 automatic outs we had this year at the bottom of the order.
Lead-off
Murphy
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Church
Catcher
Pitcher
I think you just did :)
The last thing on earth the Mets should do is even consider trading Reyes or Wright. That is your core team.
What’s been wrong with the Mets??? Let’s start with Minaya signing the aging Alou and Castillo. Both go down and the team has to rely on bench players to fill the gap. I give Tatis tremendous credit for doing what he did, especially with his bat, but he is NOT an outfielder. Minaya made no effort to sign any quality relief pitching in the off season when it was clear last year that we needed the help and I heard of no real effort made to get ANYONE during the trading deadlines.
How many times does it need to be seen that no lead is ever safe. Reyes I believe lead the league in hits and Wright was second with RBIs. How is any of this their fault?
Has the team left runners in scoring position…yes, but when they do bring those runs in they have watched that lead disappear almost immediately. Issue there might be the batting coach. I love HoJo but I don’t see the scrappy type of hitting that brings those runners in from second and third that I’ve watched other teams do to the Mets. We seem to always be looking for the big home run or line drive double and not the little blooper over the infielder’s head.
Leave Reyes and Wright alone and go after the real issues….bullpen, a leftfielder, and second basemen.
1 more year…..1 more chance to get the job done…then they are both gone if we fail
Do you realize how little sense that makes? Trade two superstars at 26 years old because they couldn’t win a championship before they reached their prime? Seriously, think about this. These types of players don’t come around very often – the Mets have had ONE superstar come through their ranks offensively. Uno, eins, ONE. In their entire 45 year history! Now we have TWO, at the same time, at the same age – both of whom are top 10 players in the game.
YOU DON’T TRADE THEM AT 26 YEARS OLD.
it has nothing to do with a chmapionship…if we lost in hte first round of the playoffs we wouldnt be having this discussion…we are talking about 2 of the biggest choking seasons in the history of sports..this isnt just a reguar standard season we are talking about here…go back to baltimore and root for the ravens or something
haha – yes “go ravens”
before we go crazy, let’s understand that this season was nothing close to one of “the biggest choking seasons in the history of sports” – it looks awful because it comes on the heels of last season – if the white sox lose today, their “collapse” is worse than anything we did (this year) since they were up 3 with 6 games left
regardless of that, you still have to explain to me why the prudent thing to do is to trade your best players when you’re trying to get better… are you really advocating change for change sake? These are guys you build around for 12-15 years. These are not guys that you try for 6 seasons and then ship them away if the results are not what you want – you put guys around them and make it work…
thank you…airfeet is lost….hey remember the bulls lost for 4/5 years with jordan….what would have happened if they had said, wow we cant win here….lets just get rid of our best players? hummm….sound familiar right now
Byrnes would be perfect for this team. But whats he gonna cost us? Im gonna say at least evans and parnell. And you know they’ll ask for murphy before evans. If it is evans and parnell – pull the trigger.
now trading Parnell is messing with our bullpen…and I THOUGHT THAT WAS OUR NUMBER 1 PRIORITY
parnell is a STARTING PITCHER….
I think you could actually unload Castillo in this trade. They will need a 2B when Hudson leaves. Byrnes contract is terrible for them.
Omar basically said that everything would be discussed. All this means is that if someone offered him something outrageous for any of our players he would consider it. As the GM you could and should say that every year. However, the Mets would be completely crazy to trade either Wright or Reyes. Trading 25 or 26 year old players just entering their primes who already have put up decent numbers makes no sense. Much of the hysteria comes from the colossal failure of our team the past two years and the media blowhards (like Francessa) who until last week haden’t watched a Met game all year.
We should be looking to dump mediocre players (castillo, anderson, etc.) and terrible pitchers (Shoenweiss, Heilman, etc.). Tweaking our offense by bringing in an Orlando Hudson might be nice. However, the glaring weakness is the pitching and the pitching and more pitching.
Agree with the pitching part. I am staying away from Odog. He is too injury prone and wants Utley money. Think Roberto Alomar with those 2 wrist injuries and moving to NY.
u said u wanted Hudson yesterday..makeup ur mind
I never said that. I have been against Hudson the entire time. He is just not worth the money and years. We have a kid in Murphy that may be able to play 2nd.
I agree with bullpen being the #1 priority. This bullpen needs a complete makeover but we also need a leftfielder and Byrnes was a great suggestion. We need a gritty player like that in this lineup.
Id rather see the mets trade Reyes than trade our best bullpen prospect for a mediocure left fielder….lets get serious..
Listen the offense does not get a free pa$$ because there were games that they could have and should have won for us down the stretch. That being said an offense that is 2nd in the league in runs is not too bad. No one was complaing about this offense when for about two months they and the starting pitching carried us while our bullpen fumbled away every lead.
The bullpen is the reason we are not talking about who we are playing in the playoffs right now. Keep this core fix the bullpen and next year if we are not in the playoffs then you think about trading our two still very very young superstars in Wright, Reyes or even Beltran.
I actually think the best way to fix this team is to go out and
1)Sign Krod
2) Sign Burnette and Lowe
3) Sign Juan Cruz (not familiar with this one, go look up his stats)
4) Move Murphy to 2nd base with Easley back as the backup or platoon if need be.
5) Trade Fmart and Evans for Holliday (May have to throw in some backend prospects as well). Yes I have seen his numbers away from Coors before you ask. His power numbers drop but his OPS is still very high.
Reyes, Beltran, Holliday, Delgado, Wright, Murphy, Church, Schnieder/Castro.
i actually agree with you for ONE SINGLE TIME
That’s not a bad plan. A lot of signings / trades to pull it all off though.
Agree some of those names could be subed out however. It does not have to be the frenchman and Lowe. Although I do love the idea of Lowe being a #4-5 starter for us. That guy is the prime innings eater.
SP
Johan, Pelfrey, Burnette, Lowe, Maine
BP
Krod, Cruz, Ayala, Stokes, Smith, Darren Oliver, Parnell/Sanchez.
its actually Burnett though not Burnette…hes not french
Whoops, that’s what I get. Oh well, at least you backed up your arguement for once. :)
btw Jaun Cruz is pretty nasty…hed be a great addition is he really a free agent??
From MLBtraderumors
Middle relievers
Jeremy Affeldt (30)
Luis Ayala (31)
Joe Beimel (32)
Joe Borowski (38)
Doug Brocail (42) – club option for ‘09
Shawn Chacon (31)
Juan Cruz (30)
Alan Embree (39) – $3MM club option for ‘09
Scott Eyre (37)
Kyle Farnsworth (33)
Casey Fossum (31)
Keith Foulke (35)
Tom Gordon (41) – $4.5MM club option for ‘09 with a $1MM buyout
LaTroy Hawkins (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Matt Herges (39) – club option for ‘09
Bob Howry (35)
Jon Lieber (39)
Jason Johnson (35)
Damaso Marte (34) – $6MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Trever Miller (36) – $2MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.4MM buyout
Guillermo Mota (35)
Will Ohman (31)
Darren Oliver (38)
Chan Ho Park (36)
Horacio Ramirez (29)
Al Reyes (38)
Dennys Reyes (32)
Arthur Rhodes (39)
Juan Rincon (30)
Glendon Rusch (34)
Rudy Seanez (40)
Brian Shouse (40)
Russ Springer (40)
Mike Timlin (43)
Ron Villone (39)
David Weathers (39)
Kip Wells (32)
Matt Wise (33)
Jamey Wright (34)
I actually think that if we can’t get Krod then Cruz could be closer material. He is dominant. I don’t know enough about his makeup to know how he would handle the stress. I would think the Dbacks may even think about letting Lyon go and allow Cruz a shot to close.
OK lets get serious they are not trading Reyes nor should they. Name one viable replacement for Jose Reyes that is available. And then tell me how you’re going to replace his numbers.
Hanley Ramirez and Toluwitzki are both viable replacements…not that they are realistic…but they are still replacements
However, the idea of the Mets obtaining either is not viable.
toluwitski is garbage
I said available, NEXT!
oh…Tulowitzki is more than avaiable for Reyes, NEXT!
What would be their motivation? Tulo is signed longer and cheaper than Reyes. IF he is just as good then why would they do it?
Toluwtizki is NOT better than Reyes…he has never put up actual stats anywhere near reyes…the guy has played 1 full season in MLB…are u guys serioius?? wed be taking a risk on Tulowitzki…Reyes is proven stats…just not proven clutch
Ok then why would you trade him for Tulo? Just to shake up the team?
I swear Airfeet, sometimes I can’t figure out what side you are on for nothing.
Oh i guess your The Rockies GM. Sorry. Tulowitzki makes about 1.5 mill less per year plays better defense and hes the same age. You cant tell me thats a done deal, And honestly would you rather have Tulo than Reyes?
Not to mention that he is actually under contract longer. People forget the fact that Jose chose to go with a shorter contract.
HE DOES NOT PLAY BETTER DEFENSE NOR OFFENSE…ARE U SERIOUS?
Looks like real got it out before me.
and the deal wasnt Reyes for Tulowitzki…the deal was Reyes and Fmart for Holliday and Tulowitzki…Reyes plays better D and better offense..Holliday shts on Fmart…thats the DEAL
Ok while we are having fun at this then
Holliday, Tulo and Ryan Spilborghs for Reyes, Heilman and Church.
LOL
Spilborghs, Murphy, Holliday, Beltran, Wright, Delgado, Tulo, Schnieder/Castro.
There you go Airfeet.
I think Jose is a better offensive player than Tulo. Im the on that wants to keep Reyes. Seriously airfeet stop playing devils advocate and come up with a reasonable argument. Right now you have nothing except getting to players that are unavailable.
Reyes is way better offensively and way better defensively and proven…but he has also proven that he cant lead a team into the playoffs or into the world series…Tulowitzki puts up worse numbers…but him and Holliday led the rockies into the world series…basically just the 2 of them…so thats my ARGUMENT….good luck trying to find a hole in that
ok so what did they do this year?
Ok I didnt see your previous post but i could’ve sworn you said hanley and tulo were viable replacements. so i said tell me someone whos available and you said tulo is. So im officially done wasting my time on you. Too much flip flopping.
maybe cuz i posted Hanley by accident…didnt see u said available…but yeah theres no reason to bring up hanley here
But Tulo alone is not a VIABLE replacement for Reyes. Yes if you start saying Tulo+ this or that then yes it becomes more viable.
Imagine someone getting on you for flip flopping. LOL ;)
I mean ur the one who thinks that we should trade Parnell for Byrnes…REAL SMART there….
Not logical at all. However, let say that they would eat all of Castillo’s contract and send us Byrnes would you throw in Parnell?
oooooooo maybe…i mean id rather throw in Carp than Parnell…you dont think we could find someone OTHER than our best bullpen prospect
Maybe but there has to be motivation for the Dbacks to take Castillo. Not to mention that they stand to lose their closer and setup man if they don’t resign them.
Mike Francesa and Michael Kay both suggested yesterday that Wright or Reyes should be traded. What do you expect from a couple of Yankee shills? These so called sports experts look at the last three games of the season to do their post mortem. True, the Mets scored just 5 runs. But good pitching always stops good hitting. The autopsy on the 2008 Mets will show that what ultimately did them in was a bullpen that blew 30 leads, 16 since the All Star break. The Mets should have never been in a position to have to win on the last day of the season. Had the bullpen done their job, a playoff spot would have been secured days ago. I’m not suggesting that the offense should not shoulder some of the blame. But the idea of trading one or two home grown superstars with the best years ahead of them is absurd. Of course Francesa and Kay want them traded. In this way the Mets are less threatening to their Yankee empire. They both are such amateurs.
I just hope Minaya will place his main focus on the bullpen. Unlike last season when our prized (sarcasm bullpen free agent was Matt Wise.
yeah lets focus on our bullpen but trade Parnell for Byrnes…that makes sense
Honestly I think this lineup needs a guy like byrnes that will bunt and hit and run and do all the little things that would not be asked of a player like holliday. We dont need a lineup of stars it doesn’t workout.
we wouldnt need a lineup of stars if OUR stars were capable of being stars when it mattered…but unfortunately they cant so if we cant trade our CORE we need to ADD another member to our core
Then do it with SP and Closer. That will have just as much impact on the team. Johan is now part of the Core. Why can’t Krod be? And the frenchman?
but remember when our bullpen actually pitches well our lineup finds a way to fall asleep…i think a core player needs to be a hitter
I just disagree. If you want to go get Holliday then fine but I still think the best cure for this team would be to have confidence in their SP and BP. You can tell that’s why they press. They know that they have to do something or the pen will blow it again. If you can’t see the impact a terrible pen has on the rest of the team then you are hopeless.
Ok I guess you feel like your boy parnell is the next Joba. I hope he does well but i just dont see him being anything special.
hes better than anyone we have in the bullpen…
To say that Tulo is better than Reyes signifies that you have never actually looked at Tulo’s stats or have seen him play. Yes, he has a bit more power, but actually, in 101 games this year, he had 8 HR. And he plays half of his games at Coors! As well, he is VERY slow. He also doesn’t bat leadoff. Who is going to be our leadoff batter? He is not as good of a fielder, either. He also strikes out once every four at bats.
Actually no one on here is saying Tulo is better, even the flip flopping Airfeet.
Come on Airfeet I was playing your game earlier in the thread. You have not commented on my mega trade with the Rocks.
what was the trade?
Ok while we are having fun at this then
Holliday, Tulo and Ryan Spilborghs for Reyes, Heilman Church and a prospect.
LOL
Spilborghs, Murphy, Holliday, Beltran, Wright, Delgado, Tulo, Schnieder/Castro.
There you go Airfeet.
i like it a lot…but that prospect would probably have to be Fmart….but if it wasnt i think that would have to be a done deal
Figured you would. Not very VIABLE though.
Reyes is my favorite player. I think hes much better than Tulowitzki but Tulo is a better defensive player. Dont get me wrong i think both of these guys will win gold gloves but i think Tulo is a better defensive player.
i dont think Tulowitzki being a better defensive player if thats even true is at all significant because it would be so little difference that it relaly wouldnt matter one bit
Plus it’s a different kind of defense. Tulo may be more solid on the everyday plays but he is not as dynamic as Reyes in the field.
Good Day mets fans.
Wait airfeet your the one that wanted Tulo instead of reyes, now you dont?
nope i dont….i never said that…not if holliday and Fmart arent included… i would never do reyes for tulo straight up
This is all nonsense anyway. There is not a player out there that is untouchable in the right deal. Would the Cards want to trade Pujols? Of course not. If the Marlins offered them Hanley, Uggla, and 2 young SP for just him would they do it? Halladay is untouchable. Would they trade him for Reyes and Wright, duh. Santana is untouchable would we trade him for…….
I know that’s a hypothetical, but why would the Marlins do that? No player, theoretically, is untouchable. But sometimes the price tag in acquiring an elite player is so high as to render team “virtually” untouchable.
Exactly and Reyes, Wright, Beltran and Santana are virtually untouchable.
I got you. Is anybody listening to Francessa right now? the guy is so clueless it is unbelievable.
No. What’s he babbling about now? I probably won’t listen to him again until spring training, and I prefer Michael Kay anyway. How sad is that? How bad must Francesca be?
Here is a question for someone smarter than I, (that does not include you airfeet :) ) will the Rays pick up Crawford’s 9 million dollar option? They have to spend some money elsewhere and they have done much of their damage this season without him.
Now that would be a dynamic guy to pick up for LF. Crawford and Reyes back to back could be a tough combo.
You’d think the rays would hang on to Crawford but i’d love him on this team.
ONE Question for everyone:
Can you name one latino player in baseball that the press/fan consider to be “scrappy” or “pesky” or a white player that is considered “lazy” or has “mental lapses”?
There is a definite racist bias amongst fans and the media that is getting out of control.
Jose Reyes
Are you joking? Show me one article that uses the word “scrappy” when discussing Jose. (Although I believe he is scrappy).
Im just saying Reyes is a scrappy player and I’d think most knowledgable fans would agree.
I agree with you. My comment was that the media and many fans do not.
I call it “The International Latino Baseball Conspiracy”, every time some tool from the suburbs suggests that someone would be signed to the Mets already if only their last name was Martinez or Gonzalez.
Yes. If David Wright didn’t run a ball out he would be “tired” while everyone would be calling for Jose to be benched. You are right.
That said, I had to spend a precious 15 minutes of my day – when I have a sign up asking for NO BASEBALL DISCUSSION – explaining to someone how we are not trading David or Jose, and that David actually tied the Mets RBI record this year.
As for him not being clutch, he’s a kid. We don’t know yet if he’s clutch. When you have a player like Wright you wait it out to see before throwing hte baby out with the bath water.
And the Yankees fans in the office are walking around like CC is already wearing pinstripes. They’re also telling me that we’re trading Beltran this year and they’ll be glad to take him off our hands. HELLO, YOU DIDN’T MAKE THE POST SEASON EITHER, MORONS
sorry, just had to get that off my chest
That might be the most cogent thing I’ve read on this site.
the stuff about Hanley Ramirez being better than Reyes is a joke… Ramirez can’t hold Reyes’ jock when it comes to fielding… Offensively, Reyes is at least comparable to Ramirez.
No they aren’t.
Hanley is basically going to be a 35-40 HR man
Hanley is better.
Seriously. Who does this guy root for? And is value measured only in home runs now?
and yet with ALL those hr’s…reyes had more rbi this year
On the K-Rod subject if the Mets want him he is there’s. What other big market team is going to be looking for a closer?
To put it also another way. What team is going to be looking for a closer that will actually give K-Rod the money he is going to want?
I think this plays in the Mets hands and against K-Rod because I don’t think the issue with the Mets signing K-Rod is money. I think it is the years. I don’t think the Mets want to invest another 5-7 years in a pitcher and I heard that is what K-Rod is going to look for. I can not think of another team out there that will give him that.
I think he is going to be a Met with a 3 year deal option for a fourth year.
Too early to tell. There is ALWAYS a team out there willing to spend. Do you know how many good teams had terrible pens?
K-Rod is as close to automatic shutdown EVERY YEAR as any closer is nowadays. Teams will be falling all over themselves to get him.
I just don’t see what team out there that needs a closer will spend 15 million a year on one.
One team I thought of is the cardinals.
But look at the big market teams they all have a solid closer with big money invested in them.
I don’t see it either. Most teams that even can afford him already have closers in place. St. Louis is not going to spend 15 million for 5 years, they like the scrap heap model. The Braves, nope. Yankees or Red Sox? Nope. Maybe Texas? I would say our best competition will be the Angels, Rangers, and uhhh….
Lets not forget that non-clutch David Wright actually got to K-Rod earlier this year.
The reason I became a Mets fan…
Family was Sox and Yankee fans but the Mets were bad boys. Kicking @ss and taking numbers. A no fear attitude and a grittiness that I immediately connected with. Ever since Keith, Lenny and Wally left it has been one softy after another. I loved Piazza but he never had that intensity that I longed for since the mid eighties. Now we have possible the most wussy team this franchise has ever seen. Arguably the most talented but by far the weakest.
So I ask you…
If your can build a team from scratch.. A completely new squad. Would you construct them like the 80’s Mets with grit and fire or like this current configuration?
If you haven’t realized yet.. Soft players cannot thrive in NEW YORK. They fold.. You can’t expect these guys to perform in big spots. So if you construct a team of Playboys you will get exactly that! We are on a road to NOWHERE. More heartache and more frustration
My question is after 1986 what did that team provide you? Heartbreak and heartburn. I want a contender every year.
Guys you can never compare 80’s era to 00’s.. They only had 2 divisions. No wild card. It was much easier to deal with after celebrating a WS victory. Yes 87 was a year of injury and 88 broke my heart but not even close to how much these past 3 seasons have hurt.
It made it much easier to deal with because I knew it was only a performance issue and not a mental one.
Please. Ask the ‘86 team what all that “heart” and “grit” would have gotten them without Jesse Orosco and Roger McDowell.
Let’s also not forget that Wright is going to 26 in December, and Reyes is just 25. The average Major Leaguer hits their prime around age 27 (thank you, CBS Sportsline). What does that mean? For all the greatness these two have displayed so far, odds are we HAVEN’T EVEN SEEN THEIR BEST YET. Really, do you want to be the moron who trades away these two guys before they’re in their prime? And Beltran is arguably the best CF in the game. His bat ain’t bad either. Again, trading any of these three is a ludicrous, ludicrous idea. You would never be able to get equal value back. Never. You want virtual untouchables? Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Santana, Pelfrey. You want guys who may not be untouchable but who are practically guaranteed to come back? Maine, Church, Schneider, Delgado, Tatis, Smith, Murphy. That’s twelve guys on your twenty-five man roster right there, almost half, and I’m just fine with that. The rest of them are fair game.
Thank you for saying something that makes sense!
Francesa has to be provacative – he’s a host of a sports talk show.
It’s true Wright and Reyes haven’t come thru in the clutch of end of season baseball, but I’m sticking by them. Build around them. I look forward to watching them play for the next 10 years in Mets uniforms. You don’t give up on talent like this.
Put up a poll. Ask fans do they want to trade Wright/Reyes? 90 plus percent will say no.
that is part of the problem there….wright has come through at the end of seasons….please go look at his stats in sept/oct…..ummm the best of any months during the season…he gets better as the season goes on….now he is getting sh*t because of one at bat and the failures of this “Team” over the last two years….but what you just sad about wright is simply not true
Again, anybody who thinks the problem with this Mets team was anything but the bullpen is a complete and utter idiot who knows nothing about baseball. That includes Mike Francesca.
the fact that you really think hte ONLY problem with the mets was the bullpen really scares me…its fair to say that it was the largest problem but not even close to the ONLY problem
And where would you like to be fitted for your dunce cap? Every offense, every bullpen, every pitching staff runs hot and cold and fails at least some of the time. The Mets problem is a bullpen that blew a franchise record number of leads, a bullpen that blew so many leads in the 9th that, if games ended after the 8th, the Mets would have won the division by at least 5 games. So yes, the bullpen was the only problem that WASN’T an expected baseball problem. The bullpen was cataclysmic. If you think trading a productive core guy is going to make this team better… well, maybe you should actually learn a thing or two about the game and then get back to us. This is E N T I R E L Y on the bullpen. Even with all the injuries, with a halfway decent bullpen, not even a GOOD bullpen, we’d be talking about who the Mets are facing in round one right now. B U L L P E N. If you can’t see that, I can’t help you.
dude if we could have gotten a sac fly with a runner on 3rd with NO outs one time out of 3 consecutive innings we would have been playing the Brewers for hte wild card last nite….
You’re right. But the offense succeeded far more often that the bullpen. The bullpen was historical in its failures. And statisically in baseball that;s supposed to be the other way around. Offenses sometimes leave men on. That’s the way it goes. Wright had some huge strikeouts. This is true. But it’s the bullpens fault for letting things get that dire in the first place by blowing all of those games. B U L L P E N.
its also a TEAM sport…you cant blame or target specific people…yes the bullpen was horrific..but you cant just let everyone else off the hook when there were many offensive blunders as well
What, like you’ve been targeting Wright and Reyes? I can say it was the bullpen’s fault, when it was clearly the bullpen’s fault.
Like I said, you have to be crazy not to consider trading Wright.
You have to be crazy to consider trading one of the best young players in the game. Or a fan of another team that wants him. If the Mets put Wright on the market, teams will be LINING UP for him, but they won’t offer anywhere near equal value back. That’s why you don’t trade young starts while panicking. Because teams will try to take them for less than they are worth.
WRIGHT AND REYES ARE NOT UNTOUCHABLE….IF THERE IS A DEAL OUT THERE THAT MAKES THE TEAM BETTER WHY WOULD WE NOT TRADE WRIGHT OR REYES….IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE ONE FOR ONE…IT COULD BE A PACKAGE OF PLAYERS… A 2 FOR 1 TRADE…LISTENING TO OFFERS IS THE BEST THING TO DO….OBVIOUSLY…AND IF THE RIGHT DEAL DOESNT COME ALONG THEN YOU KEEP THEM
Because you’ll never get equal value for them, that’s why. Be realistic. Who’s giving you what Wright is actually worth? Nobody. And if the Mets trade him for anything less than what he is worth, they will be DESTROYED by the fans and media.
well if we cant get equal or better value then we obviously wont trade him…but if someone gives us an offer for equal or better value than why wouldnt we consider it?
I’ll bite. Tell me equal value. To whom do you trade Wright, and for what?
Is it fair to say that if we keep all our core players around and they collapse again even with a better bullpen we will CONSIDER trading them?
airfeet just admit you dont like wright and would want him off this team even if we did make the playoffs…its obviously what you want so just admit it and we can move on to talking about what this team WILL acutally do to fix the problems
give me one person close to the team who thinks this should happen. any beat reporter. just ONE.
there aren’t any. just one yankees fan who had one too many twinkies: mike smugcesa.
only morons would listen to this clown and make this an issue.
reyes and wright were 1 and 2 in hits this year in the nl. none their 393 hits (2.5 per game) were clutch, lol
sign k-rod
Omar is in a very tight spot.. If you don’t change the mentality of this team and Wright continues to come up short in big spots.. It will ruin his career.. Next year will be brutal.
Marlins are on their way to becoming a powerhouse. We need to do something fast. The Mets mentality must change and change now. So we have what options to change the mentality? Change the Manger, or change the core.
Marlins are for real and very young and very unafraid. Next season the Marlins could easily win this division. Even with an improved bullpen the Mets will have a hell of a race. That without a doubt will have David Wright in big spots in big games. So how do you change him? He needs a manager or teammates that can mentor him. So who is going to do this ?
exactly…and even with a fixed bullpen i could easily see our team struggling to scratch out runs against Scott Olsen in a must win game
Some of you have to open up your eyes and realize that Wright and Reyes are NOT the best players in the league…yeah they are great but NOT untouchable aka Chipper Jones is a better player than Wright
you ve said that twice….now its obvious which team you like…and by the way if you look at what chipper did in up to 25 years old and/or his first 4 full seasons….wright is having a better career so far… i know chipper has done it longer and wright will have to continue this for the next 5 / 7 years to be in the discussion with chipper, but he is and imo will have a better career than chipper
Oye.
I have a GREAT deal of respect for Chipper Jones. But if you compare the two year for year age to age you will see how far off the mark you are.
I am as hard on David Wright as any Met fan on this board, but you are just flat out in depression land mode right now.
Know how many times Chipper Jones knocked in more than 120 runs in a season? Answer never.
More than 115? Answer never.
Chipper Jones was 27 when he knocked in his 500th run, 28 600th, 29 700th.
Wright will be 26 when he knocks in his 500th and 600th next season. He will have his 700th at age 27.
Wright struck out against Bob Howry, but he also did not cough up two games in two days against the Braves at Shea and then another one in Atlanta the following Sunday.
Take a deep breath. You are losing it.
aka? I do not think that achronym means what you think it means
I for one have decided to stop listening to Mike Francesca (which I probably should have a long time ago) after listening to his Yankee fan concern trolling about how Wright and Reyes are pretty much guaranteed to lead us to collapse every September, forgetting of course that they less us to within a game of the World Series, just two years ago, or that they are each in the top 2 at their position in majors (If you want Wright third behind A-rod and Chipper I can listen to that).
This has nothing to do with “guts” and “heart.” Teams that score runs win, and teams that give up runs lose. That’s it. You score runs, and it doesn’t matter one iota. Guys like Juan Pierre are scrappy as all hell, but a .655 OPS isn’t going to win you ballgames anywhere.
Trading Wright or Reyes would be a greivous mistake that would both hurt the Mets chances at winning baseball games in the future but also damage the relations between the Mets and the fans who have with good reason begun to see Wright and Reyes as the cornerstones of their franchise for years to come.
cuz players like Jeter and Hideki Matsui dont get big hits in big situations that win playoff games….right……….
Hideki Matsui? REALLY?
The last three years Overratezilla is 10 for 47 with 2 RBIs in the Yankees first round bounces.
If you go back to the Yankees crumble to the sox after game 3 in 2004 he is a total of 14 for 66 with you GUESSED it those same 2 RBIs.
Give me a break.
I don’t advocate trading David Wright unless its for equal or superior talent. But that is highly unlikely. Trying to protect him from being in big spots his entire career is ridiculous and counterproductive. He needs to learn how to handle this. If not David Wright will become nothing more than an average player. So lets talk about what can be done to help this kid.
IMO if trading any of our core including Beltran is not an option then you either get a new Manager or a player that can completely change the mets mentality. I don’t think there are such players available. So to me.. Jerry needs to go.
Jerry does need to go but picking up Manny isnt a terrible idea
ok braves fan
You know what,, your probably right.. If Omar can’t change the mentality then why not add Manny.. He might just be exactly what this team needs. A player that acts like a hot dog that comes through in the clutch. If you can’t change Reyes and Wright, at least get them a teammate that backs up his act. Maybe Jose will feed on that.
You know what would help change the mentality of all the Mets hitters, the same thing that helped them in 2006, the knowledge that when the ball was flipped from the Managers hand to the bullpen, they could trust Sanchez, Heilman, Wagner, Bradford, Oliver, Feliciano.
Last year they had that trust in at least Heilman, Feliciano, Wagner for 75% of the year.
This year they had that faith in literally NO ONE. Even when Wagner was available he was a mess.
Anyone who has played sports at any level knows that a weak link can destroy you.
i would agree…we dont need to take away these three, we need to add to them
I’m with Francesa on the FAN…
100% agree with Francessa!! You guys are scaring me!! Hopefully Omar isn’t listening to the callers, cause we are never gonna win if we don’t change the core!!!
Listen “Met fans” Let go…… Cut the umbilical cord!! I am a met fans since 73….. I love this team, and watched Reyes and Wright in the minors… Loved them both….. They are not clutch players! Two years running!! After last year I wasn’t ready to cut the cord, but two years?? It’s time!! I want to see new faces as long as we get obviously similiar talent back… “Intangibles” fans!!! Wake up!!
So, RD, why don’t the Yankees trade A-Rod???? What has he done in the clutch to win his team ANYTHING? And who exactly is going to replace Jose Reyes with his 200+ hits, 50+ stolen bases and 19 triples? Yeah, I didn’t think you had a name in mind. No worries.
You’re not a Mets fan. Please. Don’t even try that tired line. You’re one of those haters posting crap on the board to piss Mets fans off.
It’s really quite simple. If you’re all for trading Wright or Reyes you’re either a Mets hater or mentally disabled….or both.
You HAVE TO let go of numbers… Do you know what intangibles means?? These guys are not clutch!! Have you been watching this team?? They will never win! I am a MET FAN who knows and understands it’s time to let them go……
you are a dilusion met fan if you are actually one….please lets get rid our best players….lets keep everything status quo and get rid of our most productive players
I honestly can’t believe Met fans think we should trade our core players. Aside from the fact that they’re amazing and homegrown, trading them is almost guaranteed to not get equal value, and for all Met fans regretting trading Kazmir, this has a fine shot at being even worse.
We will win if we get better around the core. The core is the Mets strength – few teams have a better top three position players than the Mets.
Do you want a champtionship?? How about making the playoffs and not gagging it up every year when it counts? How do you say this core is so great when they haven’t won ANYTHING???
So, you believe A-Rod has to go too, right?
rd…stfu! get a clue, you freaking yankee homer! get off this site
Listen……. I’m not a yankee fan, so I really can’t comment on A-Rod…… but……. the mets have a similiar player in flushing, in that he almost NEVER hits in the clutch……. If the Marlins would trade Hanley Ramirez straight up for Jose you would have to jump on that…….. Or Sox trade Youkalis for David Wright, same thing…… Just examples for the momma met fans…
Niether Hanley or Youkillis is available to us. So, now what? What does that Fat Yankee Shill on WFAN say to that?
And I’m sorry, exactly why can’t you comment on A-Rod? Have you really no idea how non-clutch he has been for the Yankees? Have you no idea that he has won the Yankees ZILCH during his tenure in the Bronx? Are you that clueless?
Trade Wright and Reyes….DEAR GOD. You people kill me. I repeat: this nonsense is the all the talk of Mets haters….or those who have a mental disability.
Listen jsy….. Those are examples…. Omar needs to explore all rational possibilites……. IF he can’t come up with anything feasible, then we are stuck… We/Omar has to try to unload these guys but obviously for talent…
Are you Davis Wright or Jose’s mother? You sound like it…
Hanley will be an outfielder before too long.
ok so youkalis has ONE good season and that erases what wright has done for 4 plus seasons….
The core gets another year.
Give them a pen to work with (including Krod)
Swap Castillo for Murphy at 2b
Add an OF with guts (Byrnes? Rowand?)
Replace Ollie w/ a guy like Lowe….maybe another arm
None of these are impossible orders. All are obtainable for reasonable trades or through FA. (KRod will be the hardest to get)
Do all this.
And WHEN the core fails again, the discussion will be about how quick we can run Wright out of town because he’s a choker.
But they get 1 more season.
Perform or be gone.
And that applies to Omar and Jerry
Good plan furioso. Nice to see you’re being rational. But even if they did fail again. I would still never trade Reyes/Wright/Beltran/Santana. NEVER!!!!
You hear me rd? you Yankee homer!!!
This is the problem with you irrational fans!!…… I can only hope Omar isn’t reading this cause we may be stuck with these hearltess gutless players forever!!
the same ones that WON a division title in 2006? you mean those players?
Really what I feel this team needs is another big bat to add to their team like Holliday or Manny. They also need to revamp their entire bullpen. The rotation luckily will have to the 2 weakest pitchers leaving so we can also take advantage of that and sign a big #2 starter to go along with Santana like a Burnett or Dempster. K-Rod is also a must at this point!
I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss Ollie. They guy is 27 and just coming into his prime. These other guys are all a few years older and will demand lots of years and dollars. I’d be much more comfortable giving ollie a 4-5 year deal than Burnett.
I’d love to get Dempster though
Ollie is Scott Borris’s client!!! He’s gonna cost at least 12 mil. And he’s awful and too erratic. We need someone more reliable!
I felt the same way last year after the colossal collapse…… Re give them another year…. They went 5-12 last year final 17 games to go, this year 7-10…… It is time to break them up NOW!!
Just get off the site, Yankee shill.
1) Do the mets really need another big bat? Scoring runs wasn’t the problem. Situation hitting was the problem. The Mets need some role players that can play sound fundamental baseball, move a runner over, or put a ball in play when there is a man on 3rd with no one out, and inject a little piss and vinegar into this team.
2) WTF is a “core” that is such garbage. A team is a team. A leader isn’t always the guy who scores the most runs or hits the most HRs. He’s the guy who people look up to on a team for his character. See Jason Veritek, Julio Franco, etc.
3) I love this stuff
Man, I just can’t read all this without chiming in. How many Save Opportunities or Hold Opportunities did Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Delgado have this year?
There is entirely too much postional player bashing going on while the culprits are getting away scott-free. I know some of you have read the stats somewhere, and I am not going back to look them up for time’s sake, but they did a study that highlighted just how BAD the BP was this year. If baseball games went 8 innings, the Mets would of won the thing by 11.5 games! And if games went 6 innings, 27 games! Now, you arseholes are going to say something smart-alec, bu the point is clear. Those guys cannot be expected to always score more, score more, score more. Some of these so-called “clutch” situations that Reyes and Wright did not come through in SHOULDN’T EVEN OF BEEN A CLUTCH SITUATION! That is what happens when your BP is a F***IN sieve. Clean house? Sure. Where? Where else. BP!
I don’t think anyone would disagree with you Tblz. If they do, they should remove themselves from the gene pool.
This thread is not about the bullpen though.
Besides, talking about trading those guys is like washing the manure off the rug while the horse is in the corner. We could get some damn fine bullpen arms by trading those guys, though, for sure! Sheesh.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Unbelievable how everyone gets all nuts about the core when the obvious problem is the bullpen.
Well it’s ridiculous that a thread about trading those guys has more comments in it now than some wins did. Fair-weathered, entitled bastards. Nothing brings out the Mets fans like a little adversity.
Trade Reyes and Wright NOW!!!
please see above comment re: gene pool
stfu mrBill. get a freaking clue!!!
Trade the two biggest clutchless hitters EVER!
I’m not even going to justify this response with an explanation. You sir, are a moron!
oh yeah, btw, STFU!
Seriously ll and jsy……… Take a deep breath and look at this thing rationally….. You can’t be emotional here…… These guys have let us down for two years running…… Can we please get some new talent over here? Perhaps guys who are tough, with fire? Even if we lose id rather see that then watching these guys cough it up again….
Who let you down, dip*sht? Was it the record-setting RBI’s by Wright, or one of the best offensive seasons by SS in history? They were 1-2 in hits for the NL. The Mets scored the SECOND MOST RUNS IN THE LEAGUE. Now, I don’t know what all that means, but I guess it’s pretty good. And, oh yea, they both are under 26 and under contract for several more seasons.
Another einstein blogger who thinks numbers mean everything?? Rock heads…
You are tiresome, but I will give you the only number that matters. 29. That is blown saves this year by Mets pitchers. Do you understand what that number means? So unless you pull out the game log that shows every one when Reyes or Wright was responsible for those numbers, you don’t have a leg to stand on.
TB, I’ll give you a number: 1
The ONE guy Wright had to bring home (Murhpy) on 3rd NO OUTS and he COULDN’T do it!
That’s why you surround Wright with guys who excel at situational hitting.
Look at what Fukodome did for the cubs (despite his collapse) He showed an entire team that patience at the plate pays off and wears down opposing pitchers.
Guys like LoDuca were great at that in 06, we need some more of those guys who are going into their prime not past it
I’m not going to even look this up, but how many AB’s did Wright have over the course of this year? And you’re going to pick one (1!!!) to judge his season. Wow.
You’re the guy who wanted Zambrano cuz he beat the Yankees twice early in the season that fateful year.
Yeah, only 2 years. That’s the issue. You want to make crazy moves like that over 2 years. Look at the big picture, look at the Met career possibilities. Look at having a chance to win every year with this group. Don’t be so emotional yourself. I know it hurts, but trading any of the core would be irrational. I’d rather lose with these guys than try some other unknown.
How can you call yourself a Met fan? You are a disgrace rd!!!
You are confusing met fan with holding onto a dream… These guys have let you down two years in a row!! Up 2 games with 7 to play this year, and we don’t need to go into last year…. Two years in a row blowing it to the marlins, who have a payrolls 1/6th of the mets!! 5 runs in 3 games!! Are you a glutten for punishment?? Wake up….!!
The point you should try and take from all of this that with a better BP, we would of been MUCH farther up and the last series would of made little difference.
Remember when the BP had that good stretch? The Mets were almost un-beatable there for a couple weeks. Extrapolate that over the course of a whole season. Even just an average performance for the entire season means we’re in now, and all of this rhetoric is crap.
rd, without those guys, you don’t even get the opportunity for them to choke.
The solution is not subtracting the mets best players, it’s surrounding them with the right kind of role players that can help lead this team to the next level.
We need a Jason Vertik type that isn’t the best offensive player on the field, but he leads by example and plays the game well. We need to find a guy like that who is entering his prime and has a desire to win.
LL, stfu!
no mrBill, you should stfu! And turn in your Mets fan membership card. The Mets are not allowing any more dumb arses in their fan club. Get a clue, man, just get a clue!
rd…you need to wake up man. Realize what you have here with these guys. Don’t make the situation worse.
you are one of those fans whose opinions should be ignored
Hey Mr. Bill,
I understand with man on third with no outs and Wright could bring them home, however do you remember having a 4 run lead until the BULLPEN blew it. See you can try and blame lack of clutch hitting but it always seems to go bank to the bullpen!! hHow many times can the “core” guys go out a score and watch the bullpen blow it. Being clutch is not always at the plate in is on the mound too and the METS bullpen was far from clutch.
Thank you. And I like your tag. Look folks, the season is over. As far as I am concerned, there is not post-season baseball. There only is a long, boring winter.
Let’s not compound the problems by shipping out two of our studs. Surround them with a better supporting cast, and we got a good chance (not entitlement, see?) in 09.
(And btw, can you imagine other teams drooling over getting either one of those guys? All this trade talk for these two has other GM’s sporting wood).
dude we had a 4 run lead in the 2nd inning and COULDNT TACK ON A RUN….and the bullpen didnt blow it OLLIE blew it…that was the one game where the bullpen did its JOB and the offense failed…AWFUL post
4 run lead in the 2nd = offense failed? Do you understand the term “contradictory”?
you just blamed the bullpen u dumbA$$….do you even watch hte games…stop JUST STOP…the team failed as a whole yeah the bullpen was the worst of all time but you cant just think that the bullpen takes ALL blame…this is a TEAM sport last time i checked…and this game was NOT the bullpen’s fault it was the LINEUPS fault..
first of all, check the tags. I didn’t mention this game at all.
And it’s stupid to take one game out of a 162 game season and try to say it’s an effective microcosm. That’s why they keep stats, son.
I have been watching this team for more years than I care to admit. So long in fact, that the thought of moving our home-grown stars makes me shudder and relive the days of vaughn, alomar, bonilla, coleman, et. all. There is no logic to trading either man on the left side of the IF.
And by the way, Mr. Mets Almanac, Ollie left that game up 5-3 with the bases loaded, and what did the bullpen do? According to you….their job. Sheesh.
all ER were on Ollie….idiot
Airfeet!
Did you watch the game? When Ollie left they still had the lead and the BULLPEN could not hold it.
moron…
moron…
fans like you that just HAVE NO CLUE what they are talking about….you really expect a team to get up 5-1 on a couple errors that allowed them to score in the first place and just SIT BACK and do nothing the rest of hte game….NO team will win if u dont tack on a run after the 2nd inning…cant expecting pitching to go and give up 3 runs and win by a run or 2…lets get serious…even a great bullpen will give up at least 1 run over 4 innings or so
again, you are talking about one game. if we sat here and you wrote down every time wright didn’t perform up to your expectations, and I wrote down every time the bullpen blew it, whose list would be longer?
it has nothing to do with who failed more times…cuz yeah the bullpen did…its about addressing this team’s weaknesses and realizing that the bullpen is not the ONLY problem with this team
so you just want to address the least problematic part of our team (reyes/wright/beltran) and push the most pressing need to the back burner (bullpen)…this is where your argument dies a quick death
i never said anything about trading Reyes/wright/beltran….you dildo…all im saying is that you need to address the lineup after the bullpen..not just address the bullpen and get ready for the 09 season..
Wow, these Yankee shills really riled us Mets fans up today. Very impressive.
Here is a list of dead giveaways that proves “rd” and and his ilk are really haters, with no apparant life, just crashing the site to stir things up:
1. They know no stats. None. Instead, they site “intangibles.”
2. They’re focused soley on the best know, most successful and biggest ticket draws in the Mets franchise, Wright & Reyes.
3. Their usernames are derogatory to Mets players (i.e. Mr Bill aka David Wright). At the peak of my frustration with some of the Mets players over the course of the years I never created a permanent user name to make fun of them on a Mets fan site.
4. Clutch, by their definition, is carrying the team single-handley to the finish line when it was obvious to the Mets fans (that actually watched the games) that the last few weeks were going to be precarious regardless of how well Wright or Reyes hit or didn’t hit. WE HAD NO BULLPEN and NO ONE in the line-up beyond the #5 spot.
4. They never mention A-Rod. If their hand-wringing over Wright’s and Reyes’ intangibles and lack of clutch hitting was actually meant as constructive advice to the Mets, they’d be using A-Rod left and right as a text book example to prove their case. But they don’t, of course…because they’re Yankees fans.
Now, fellow Mets fans – let’s do ourselves a favor and never allow hater shills to rile us up like this again. Much to their chagrin, Wright & Reyes ain’t going anywhere.
Whether or not to break up the core of Wright-Reyes-Beltran is the stupidest, most moronic, fabricated debate ever. It’s instigated mostly by anti-Mets fans like Francessa who is licking his chops this week at the opportunity to try to diminish the Mets franchise.
Just ignore the tripe and nonsense. Wright, Beltran, and Reyes are NOT going anywhere. They are the biggest reasons to watch the Mets. Not some imported jaded fading veteran or some so-called gritty type who won’t make a bit of difference.
It’s the bullpen, stupid.
i’ll agree and say that Reyes Wright and Beltran should NOT go anywhere…but i will also say that all 3 of them do need to do a better job next year in big spots…is that not a fair thing to say??
Uh, what happened. Did you get hit on the head? Why the 180?
If they are at least roughly league average next year in terms of traditional situational stats and get their share of big hits throughout the year, I’ll continue to be happy with them — regardless of whether the Mets make the postseason.
My estimation of them is NOT contingent on whether or not the Mets make the playoffs. It’s a team game. And it’s clear the offense did their job this year, as did Santana and Pelfrey. If the bullpen continues to screw up, that doesn’t mean you dismantle an offense that is working.
That means you get rid of the guy who put together that bullpen. Everyone has been barking up the wrong tree the last 2 days. Especially blowhards such as Francessa who has a clear agenda.
Did someone take over your account? This cannot be the same Airfeet who was posting yesterday!
WTF airfeet? are you kidding me? What happened to your senseless blah, blah, blah? Finally you said something reasonable.
I was about to rip you a new one. Please stop acting like an idiot. You sound so much better showing you true Met colors
I never ever mentioned trading Wright or Reyes (however if a team offered Pujols or something outrageous I would do it in a heart beat and i hope you would too)…i did mention maybe considering trading Beltran….but whatever i dont even care anymore….I just want people to realize that although we shouldnt trade these guys, we should not ignore Wright’s inability to get hits with RISP prob batted like .220 and Reyes and Beltran as well. All im saying is that they really need to step up next year…that has to be clarified. There are plenty of other players out there that if you were to put them on this team they would have won even if the bullpen had collapsed because they would have batted .300 w RISP instead of .220
and 1 more thing….we still do need to add players to this offense..we do need to make additions…we cant throw out the same starting lineup as the 08 lineup
There are plenty of other players out there that if you were to put them on this team they would have won even if the bullpen had collapsed because they would have batted .300 w RISP instead of .220
See, airfeet, this is where I disagree …
1) First off you have a distorted view of reality. Do you know Utley, who Fatcessa has been holding up as an example of Mr. Clutch, hit only .271 w-RISP this year? And that both Beltran and Reyes had a higher BA w-RISP? Oh well, yeah, because the gra-ss is always greener on the other side, right? This stat just proves what a moron Fatcessa is as today he was going on and on about Utley as a solution when in fact he’s been Mr. Unclutch this year and Phillie fans were complaining about him just last week.
2) Last year Wright had a higher BA w-RISP than that super golden :lol: trio of Howard, Rollins and Utley. He hit .310 in those situations, while the golden :lol: trio hit .304, .282, and .272 (Rollins). Yeah, that’s right, Wright had a higher BA w-RISP than last year’s MVP.
So this just proves the “break up the core” contingent has no clue what it’s talking about. It’s all about making noise for themselves and getting under Mets fans skins.
If the Mets had had Lidge this year, then Mets fans would be preparing to watch their team in the playoffs and Phillies fans would be the ones complaining about their team.
Except for the bullpen, the Mets team was better than the Phillies this year. Better offense. Better rotation.
BTW, this does not mean I don’t want them to work on improving the offense this winter. I do, of course. Wherever they can. But most of the resources should be put towards the bullpen and also ensuring a solid rotation.
Reyes and Wright should not be traded. Trading them would accomplish nothing, I think it would hurt the team rather than help it, not to mention how many fans the team would lose.
Reyes and Wright are the best two young players in the game. Getting rid of them would be stupid. I can’t believe that anyone would even consider trading them. Subtract 124 runs from the total number of runs the Mets scored this year, and that is where the team would be without Wright.
Dear Psychotic Mets Fans,
On June 17th would you have traded David Wright?
On July 17th would you have traded David Wright?
On August 17th would you have traded David Wright?
On September 17th would you have traded David Wright?
The answer on all these dates was no. So stop being cry baby fans and being lead to the slaughter by Yankees fans who are loving the misery and feeding into the psychosis.
Trading Wright, Reyes or Beltran would be borderline insanity and full-out stupidity.
The one thing we have to realize is that even though most of us do not want Reyes, Wright or Beltran traded it may very well happen. It doesn’t occur to often but major stars have been traded (see Babe Ruth).
English, please.