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According to Bob Klapisch, in the Bergen 
Record, the Mets and Yankees are poised to get in to a bidding war over free-agent RHP CC Sabathia.
In the report, Klapisch writes, “Cashman and Minaya figure to empty the tank in their pursuit of (Sabathia),” who will likely seek a seven-year, $150 million contract.
In 18 starts for the Indians this season, Sabathia was 6–8 with a 3.83 ERA along with three complete games, but went 11–2 with seven complete games and a 1.65 ERA in 17 starts for the Brewers after being traded in early June.
Since becoming a full-time starting pitcher in his rookie season, in 2001, he has made at least 28 starts per season, while having a career 3.66 ERA, including a 2–to-1 strike out rate.
…i’m not saying i am for or against this, but, emotionally speaking, the idea of being able to pitch sabathia and Johan Santana in the same rotation is beyond exciting…
…that said, santana had 11 no decisions this season, and unless the team’s bullpen is addressed, i don’t see why this would be any different next season for sabathia…
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I’d rather they go after someone like Burnett and spend their money on the bullpen.
Can we please get Manny? Is anyone else watching him destroy cub pitching…IN THE PLAYOFFS?
Burnett is not going to be looking for too much less I don’t believe
Take that money, GIve it to Krod, Fuentes and Manny, and get a reasonably priced back of the rotation starter. You dont need ace performances every night with a reliable bullpen and an offense like this:
Reyes SS
Church RF
Wright 3b
Delgado 1b
Manny Lf
Beltran CF
Murphy 2b
Castro/Schneider C
Pitcher
Let the Yankees have yet another Over-rated “Ace” just like Choke Ming Wang, and their october misery will continue.
Delgado and Manny are both 37 years of age next season.
It is one thing to consider bringing back Delgado for his one year option. It is another thing altogether to basically have two potential Moises Alou’s as the foundation of your offense.
Pretty hard to call CC overrated, and no Met fan should be using the word “Choke” in reference to the Yankees at this time.
My one concern about CC is his weight and the effect it will have on his knees over time. He will be seeking a contract similar to Johan’s both in terms of $ and years. While Johan is fit, I can see CC having trouble down the road.
And no to Manny as well. Spend the money on the bullpen.
If the Mets win a WS in the next 3 years with those two, then that contract is well worth it.
You mean Minaya is going to throw money at the problem by overpaying for a superstar of questionable durability?
No! It’s not like this is all Minaya knows how to do!
I’d love Manny, but I wouldn’t be able to bring myself to give him more than 2 years which is what he is going to demand.
Same here, but I think one thing we’ve learned with Minaya is that he has absolutely no issue in giving extra years that no other GM would ever give. Pedro, Castillo, El Duque, etc.
You’re going to bat the greatest right-handed hitter in our time fifth? Are you insane?
he didn’t mention Pujols…
dude manny would NEVER bat 5th..he is 3 or 4
You can make an argument that having two big time horses like Johan and Sabathia strengthens the bullpen by default in that you will get 7 innings+ out of them 20 times each.
agreed
I agree in one aspect that if CC is signed the Mets would not have to worry about the pen as much when each of them pitch but there are still 3 other starters in the rotation.
In 2007 the excuse for the bullpen being bad was that they were overused down the stretch. Remember the bullpen was actually fairly decent if not good early in 07.
08 completely exposed that the bullpen is not that good simply because there are too many specialist and no one to get out both LH and RH
So if they sign CC, the bullpen would be considered better because they would be used less but they still blew so many games in the 8th and 9th this year..
CC or no CC the team needs a closer and a relief pitcher or 2 who can get both LH’s and RH’s out.
yes, but suggesting that Omar is making this a primary objective worries me.
This is what happened last winter, Santana was the primary objective and everything else waited until it was too late to be fixed.
The Yankees actually need Sabathia more (as$uming Mussina and Pettitte arent the cornerstones of their future) and will make this a long drawn out process. Omar gets sidetracked and will not make the best effort to make the trades this team needs.
With Sabathia and Santana the team might make the playoffs, but without a primary concern of the bullpen they would have the same chance of advancing as this year, almost none.
K-Rod is more important, and a better bargain as he is more likely to stay healthy for 5 years than Sabathia is for 7.
I think everyone sees an article or column by someone and they take it as fact regardless. I don’t think Omar or anyone in the Mets organization has made it known 1 way or the other that the Mets are interested. I have heard both sides from many different writers. Some say the Mets are considering CC others saying not at all. Some are saying the Mets are considering K-Rod others saying not at all.
It is way too early for anyone to really report what the Mets plans are on such a high-priced FA whose season isn’t over yet.
Sign Derek Lowe.
Or AJ Burnett, who’s 4 years younger.
Burnett will be on the DL for half the time he’s under contract…
So will CC. The Brewers abused the guy this year. There is no way CC makes more than 15 starts next season.
you have no evidence to support that.
No evidence of who getting injured? Burnett or Sabathia? There is PLENTY of evidence that Burnett will be injured half the time.
Sabathia it’s highly likely will be injured. Look at his IP the past 2 years.
Sabathia is a safer bet than Burnett and Burnett’s career numbers do not really impress me for the contract that he is going to receive this winter.
i’m talking about sabathia.
burnett getting hurt is a given….unless it’s a potential walk year then he’ll man up.
No evidence? I think it’s a safe bet that CC will not be able to bounce back from the tremendous amount of IP he put up this year. Don’t forget all the starts on short rest he made this year. Four in a row on 3 days rest?
The research has been done. Pitchers that pitch as often as CC does run into arm problems. The Brewers didn’t care because they figured he would make it through this season unscathed and whatever happens in a year or two will be someone else’s very expensive problem.
Back when pitchers only made $500K or $1M per season, it was ok to stress their arm and jeopardize their careers. It didn’t kill your payroll. Now that a guy like CC costs $15M season it’s crazy to put that much stress on them. CC will be out with a major arm issue some time before the end of the 2010 season. The time he spends on the shelf will give him ample time to bulk up to about 350 lbs. Look at Colon and Mo Vaughn, the same thing (weight gain) happened to those two once they had a long term injury.
Stay away from CC.
to be fair, when was mo not big?
Geees, your comment makes me wonder how pitchers ever made it more than a year or two back twenty or thirty years ago? I mean wow, how did any of them even last more than a year or two with the crazt idea of the four man rotation and the horrendous thought that was the complete game. I have even heard that some pitchers would pitch a complete game give up three or four runs and suffer a loss? Is this possible? Did anyone win more than twenty games in their career back then before being set aside with a career killing elbow injury????
Now, in all seriousness, come on people. C.C. Sabathia is a horse. Granted he is a Clydesdale and not a thoroughbred but this man can throw and throw and throw and all that throwing is going to do is make him stronger and able to throw more. The only place this guy can break down is quite simply his legs because of his weight and thats something that a training staff can work on through weight training and running to make less of a danger. All joking aside, the Mets should not be afraid to sign this guy. And it will help the bullpen because dont forget you have Pelfrey as your third starter and he has the ability to go seven at least twenty times in a season as well. Maine as a four and maybe Niese as a five and we got a solid rotation making the bullpen that much stronger. Sign Fuentes to close let Kunz throw that 95+ stuff for the 8th and you got yourself a champagne party at the end of the year..FINALLY
I think he is headed for the west coast, but it would be great to get CC. He pitches a lot of innings, even more than Santana. Adding someone like that to your rotation automatically helps your bullpen. Can you imagine a rotation of Santana, CC, Pelphrey, Maine, and Niese or someone like that. The bullpen would probably pitch 10-20% less than they did this year, keeping them fresh in September.
222 IP
218 IP
199 IP
211 IP
That is Derek Lowe the past 4 years. He will give you the innings you need at a much cheaper price than Sabathia will command.
Sign Derek Lowe.
IPs is one stat… if you turn your attention to Wins, Ks, ERAs, CY Youngs, and MVP votes.. yeah…. not much of an argument for Derek…
Not to mention CC is left handed….
If you want to Lowe to sub in for Pedro.. hey that works for me… but Lowe isn’t even fit to buy CC’s Jelly Donuts…. and you KNOW there’s jelly donuts where CC is….
We already have an ace in Santana. No need to waste money to get a guy we already have. Plus, the one we have is about 100lbs lighter.
True.. can’t think of any good that would come from having 2 dominant starting pitchers…
That def didn’t work for the 2001 diamond backs..
stilltheEWM:
This team has SO many holes to fill … going after Sabathia would be overkill at this point.
Is Sabathia better than Derek Lowe? Yes, of course he is. No one said otherwise. Fact is though that Lowe is a winning pitcher with a career 3.75 ERA … pitches well under pressure and he is a horse.
It’s a much wiser move, considering you need a closer, left fielder, 2nd baseman, 2 starters and a whole new bullpen.
Forget Sabathia. Use the money in other areas.
And I agree with parts of that…. just didn’t think Lowe = CC :-)
Like I said … Lowe is obviously not CC.
I’d rather have Lowe if it means still being able to address left field and the bullpen properly.
how is going after cc overkill? two dominant innings eaters? you’re right. it is overkill. why would i want two studs who are guaranteed to give the bullpen an easy night every start. who wants that?
In a perfect world where money is no object CC would be great. But I agree if getting CC means Daniel Murphy in LF, Luis Castillo at 2b and Luis Ayala as the closer I am not in on that.
beltran the warrior:
read what I said … I already explained myself. No need to keep repeating it.
i read what you said but you’re completely glossing over the fact that derek is 35 years old. he’s past his prime and there’s no guarantee that he can counted on for another 200 ip next year and a 3.75 era is not great. it’s mediocre
i agree the bullpen needs to be bolstered but if there is a chance to get cc. it’s due diligence on omar’s part to monitor the situation. the wilpons can open up the checkbook a bit more for both k-rod and cc if need be. the revenue streams coming in allow them that possibility.
Lowe is 35 … and Mussina is 40. Your point is?
CC will be too expensive. Perez has to be replaced and Lowe is an upgrade.
take a look at mussina’s last few years. you had a better case with lowe.
My point is that Mussina had a great year at 40. You can’t use age to make an argument with pitchers. Look at Moyer. Age doesn’t matter when it comes to pitching.
Lowe at age 35 has 4 very good years left in him.
then let’s resign pedro. give him another couple of years and then hope he pulls a mussina.
Look at it this way. C.C. takes Ollies place in the rotation. Ollie won ten games this year. The mets lost by one game of not at least getting a play in game….Could C.C. have won eleven? HMMMMMMMMMM perhaps. And dont tell me new year everything is different thats not the point i am making.
I’m for signing Lowe. Look Sabathia is clearly a top, top notch SP. But the Brewers have honestly been leaving hm out there without a care. They know they’re not re-signing him and it’s a shame they’ve been showing no concern or care for wearing him out.
The idea of Santana and Sabathia manning this rotation is obviously one every rational minded mets fan loves. But the reality is this team can’t and won’t be able to sign bullpen guys and an additional bat if they sign CC. Forget about K-rod if they sign CC. And with Pelfrey emerging, the other cheaper options available (Burnett, Lowe) I just think there is NO WAY K-rod ends up anywhere but Flushing.
And whether you would have asked me 6 months ago, last month, or in a month - I see absolutely, positively no way that CC ends up anywhere but the Bronx. In my mind he’s been pitching in pinstripes all season long. Of course after he gets a monster deal, 4 years down the line he’ll be the fat rich guy all the yankee fans boo every day.
Sign them both.
But the problem is, Lowe is 36 and is going to want a 4 year deal. No four year deals for guys past 35 that pitch. Bad recipe.
Burnett is basically the right handed version of Ollie Perez, 4 years older.
That is a dangerous gamble.
Lowe makes and excellent replacement for Pedro, but not Perez.
Santana, Lowe, Pelfrey, Maine, Niese.
Thats not a division winning rotation, imo.
If you have a bullpen full of sub 2.00 ERA guys then it would be fine, but that will take a ton of work and $.
Hmm… Omar throwing money around.. so that he can be called a good GM??
Never heard that one before!
So that means his next move will be trading young bullpen arms for magic beans again??
Magic beans that commit hit and runs that is……
what magic bullpen arms are you talking about
the bullpen has no arms whatsoever
I’m talking about in years past.. where he sent Lindstrom, Owens, Bannister, Heath Bell.. and got us zilch in return…
It’s the Omar pattern… over spend on free agents to get them to sign in NY (Wags, Pedro, etc)
Get credit for those signings even though it was the $$$
Then.. trade away decent young players, but not be 2nd guessed because of the free agents he was able to sign…
And around and around we go….
Lindstrom trade was bad, yes. Bannister trade looks pretty bad now, but how much could he have really helped us? Bell was awful when he was with us.
ehh…thats hard to say though.
he HAd to overpay to get Pedro and Beltran here…we had no credibility then and he had to spend to get em here.
We needed a closer, and Wagner was the best out there…again we had to spend and give 4 years to make it happen.
For the most part…he’s done well in the signings (not luis obviously) but he has struggled with the trades. But to be fair for each bad one he has made a good one.
The bell trade bad…but he did get ollie…the lindstrom/owens trade was bad…but he did get Maine and then as a result El duque (who did help in 06 big time)…and the bannister trade was more of a future look for Burgos (hard to blame Omar on that, the kids got talent just not a brain) …and he did get Johan.
It’s all about value.. I have no problems trading guys like Bell and Bannister… just don’t bring back Ben Johnson, John Adkins, and Burgos….
Give us something… they’re cheap young players.. for a contending team.. we should get a piece back.. not long shots like the crapola we got.
Bannister finished the year 9-16 with a 5.76ERA. You may complain about what we got back in return, but Bannister himself was no great shakes.
Well all I can say is.. thank god we overpaid for Pedro… what a great Met he was…
Thanks for all the big game starts Pedro.. all zero of them.
El Duque helped out big time? By breaking down and missing the playoffs?? And forcing Ollie, Steve Trachsel??? and Maine into the rotation of the NLCS???
The checkbook and the Yanks stupidity got Johan. not Omar.
And how on earth do you excuse this past season? The phils get Blanton, Brewers CC, and we do NOTHING!
You enjoying the Phils post season?? Nice job Omar! Four more year! Four more years!
Yeah, but someone like Heath Bell didn’t have that much value at the time, so you’re not going to be getting much in return. Bannister’s value was questionable, but he probably could have done better in that trade for sure.
It’s all about value like I said.. two years ago Bannister had much more trade value then a head case like Burgos….
Blanton was NOT the reason the Phillies made it the post season, don’t kid yourself.
Hmm really?
Blanton in, and Kyle Kendrick out of the rotation didn’t help them make up all 2 games on us??
You are the one kidding yourself…
Bannister is terrible. He is barely the fifth starter for KC.
Bell was awful in three years as a Met.
Lindstrom couldn’t get past AA in 5 years in the Mets system and he was drafted at 22. Also his Minor League #s were atrocious
Henry Owens has barely pitched in 2 seasons. Everyone knew his funky short arm style was going to land him on the DL.
Will you guys stop knocking Omar for those three deals? He got nothing in return because he gave up nothing.
Who knew Lindstrom was going to FINALLY blossom at the tender age of 29 and Bell was given multiple shots in NY. Peterson didn’t like him and we all know how Willie felt about rookies.
Blanton? Seriously? Now Omar should have dealt for Blanton? Have you ever watched Blanton pitch? Have you ever looked at his #s? The guy is not worth dealing anything for.
CC would have obviously been nice, but if I had to trade for either Johan or CC … I’ll take Johan every time.
StilltheEWM, I’m just completely on the opposite end of the spectrum. You use hindsight to judge Omar and I try to use common sense. If Omar hadn’t gone out to sign Beltran, trade for Delgado, trade for Santana, you wouldn’t even have the chance to be spewing your nonsense because this blog would be half as popular, because the Mets wouldn’t even be a winning ball club. Omar has made some big moves for the Mets. There will ALWAYS be someone knocking the GM, because the easiest thing in the world to do is look back at a move that was made - with hardly ANY protest at the time, oddly - and say, “oh, what a bad move by Omar. What was he THINKING?” I mean seriously man the guy has made a few big splashes for this team. He has signed Wright and Reyes to 2 extremely reasonable contracts. Everyone wants to blame Omar for the pen doing well but how on earth do you know he could have made any major moves without giving up way too much? How do you know? Because the bullpen failed this team, and you figure, ‘oh, Omar never addressed it,’ when he did. He tried making some moves, signing/trading some bullpen parts to change things up. There’s only so much you can do when Aron Heilmen forgets how to pitch over the course of a season and a half. That our most electrifying relief pitcher from 06 just had major surgery and hasn’t regained his form yet. Omar tried, but because the team failed we have know-it-all fans criticizing his moves, after the fact, because they need to blame somebody. Just keep in mind your hindsight based judgments are only made possible because Omar made some huge moves that brought this team back to winning baseball.
who would you have traded to get blanton or cc? you do realise this means we never daniel murphy, right?
nicely put boscov
Why doesn’t omar get credit for trading Jae F’n Seo for Duaner Sanchez?
I get that Duaner is a shell of his former self (due to an accident) but my god was that a steal or what.
Every GM makes bad moves. Especially when it comes to some young talent. EWM you are making it out like he traded Wright and Reyes for Mota. Phillips was the one looking to trade those guys and got lucky when other teams backed out of deals.
Bullpen pitchers are a freaky thing. There are few that are lock-down guys year in and year out. The ones who are good all the time are few and far between. Bell was not happy in NY nor were the Mets happy with him. I believe Bell blossomed in SD because he was learning from Hoffman.
Kendrick averaged 5.02 innings per start, Blanton 5.4. Kendrick got 5.93 in run support, Blanton 4.71. Average runs scored in total in games started by Kendrick 6, Blanton 4.71. It really wasn’t that much of a difference at all.
Whoops, for average runs scored in a game started by Blanton should have been 5.6. In fact their *lgERA’s were EXACTLY the same at 4.47.
EWM…you can bash Pedro…but that was a GREAT signing. it HAD to be made. Yes we now have Pedro in a shell of himself…but that signing enabled us to attract Beltran here…it enabled us to sign Fmart and Deolis Guerra soon after. (Obviously Deolis helped us this past winter). And countless other latin signees who view Pedro as a god.
It also put people in the seats. It was a great move business-wise and future-wise for this organization.
And in fact Pedro was lights out for us in 2005 and most of 2006. Unfortunately for him, he had to deal with braden looper as his closer in 05.
For the record, Blanton replaced Adam Eaton, not Kendrick. Kedrick was replaced in the last month of the season by JA Happ.
Bannister was a ticking time bomb. His walk rates were really high. His hits per nine were at about average, and his K rates were well below average. This means that means he starts throwing strikes there will be more hits if luck doesn’t intervene. Or those picthes that he throws for strikes end up turning into strikeouts. He has average stuff, no killer strike out pitch, which means trouble, you get more hits. Which translates into the numbers he put up this year.
Owens, Bell, and Flores were screw ups. Nady, O.P., not signing Zito when most of you wanted him, and netting Johan while not trading Pelfrey, F-Mart, and Niese, not signing LoDuca long term are triumphs.
I really can’t see the team spending close to $300 million on 2 pitchers in the span of 2 off seasons.
Why? Omar is a creative and good GM.. this is how he builds teams….
I’m pretty sure the owners have some input on contracts/commitments such as that.
Also, biting sarcasm there man.
But he’s a good GM! Who cares if he can only spend money that’s not his?
It’s not like he consistently trades away good young players and brings nothing of value in return?
Or ignores gaping holes on a contending team while his rival teams make moves that get them to the playoffs?
Certainly we wouldn’t give THAT kind of GM a huge contract extension??
So you can rest easy….
yea…I hate trading away good young players and gettin Johan in return…horrible trade.
but for the most part, matt lindstrom and heath bell would be nice right about now.
Yeah the Johan deal had nothing to do with the contract we gave him… good call.
So glad he sat on his hands at the trade deadline.. I’m loving the Phillies post season so far, you???
The johan deal was helped by his free agency looming aspect…yes…but Omar made that trade happen.he never gave up. and johan deserved the money. had the track record for it and showed why again this year.
I think he could have gotten Manny…and its easy to say now that we should have done it. But another year with the prospects we kept, who knows what will happen.
I dont think he had many options in the relievers market though.
Well we agree on one thing.. he could of, and should of gotten Manny…
There were even marginal relievers out there (Aurther Rhodes, Eddie Guardado) anything except the crap he got.. trading for another one of “his” guys in Luis Ayala….
you are so ridiculous, EWM. completely ignoring the great moves Omar has made to keep harping on ONE trade that NO ONE protested at the time. Wait, let me guess, you had a big problem with the trade at the time, right? How on EARTH do you know Omar could have made a significant bullpen acquisition at anything close to a reasonable price? You must be in the know, right? I bet you heard the Mets could have landed Fuentes for Heilman and Bobby V’s old fake mustache, right? It’s fans like you that annoy me so much because you need to point things out after the fact constantly. Without Santana this season the Mets wouldn’t have been in it by the end of August. But nevermind that, that’s strictly a result of the big contract the Mets offered right? Again acting like you are in the know. You have all the anwers EWM, that’s why you’re posting on metsblog.com and Omar is running a big market ball club. He’s done more good than bad, plain and simple, and the bad was almost always pointed out after the fact.
amen man…I remember before MetsBlog was so popular in ‘05 and ‘06. We were all openly killing the Jose Valentin pick-up and come middle of the year we were all praising him and Omar and saying how we are wrong. Sadly with the popularity of this team we have taken on idiot fans, know-it-all fans, and ridiculous complainers.
I remember watching Valentin swing a bat in April of 2006 and just wondering what is this guy doing on our team. And everyone here was saying the same thing. That was one of the moves you had to wait to judge. Just like the Tatis move. Feliciano same thing (for 2006).
Omar has huge weaknesses that Boscov refuses fo acknowledge. He does not fortify rosters well; he is bad at putting together good groups of complimentary players who can help is stars. (See Anderson, Marlon, Sosa, Jorge, Franco, Julio, Easley, Damion, the fact that for much of the season, we only had 2 outfielders)
He fritters away young talent (Milledge, Jesus Flores, Bannister, Bell, Lindstrom, Owens–contrary to what some people are saying, there was every reason to believe that these guys were going to be at least serviceable relievers)
With the exception of Santana, he has not gotten optimal value on trades, even when those trades have ultimately worked out. Bannister when traded, was at a high point in his value. Same with Seo and Benson (at the time a good 3rd starter who was traded for a reliever and an unknown quantity). Nady turned out to be a wash. Milledge was at a low point, and Omar should have resisted trading him.
He does not grasp the concept that you should not reward fluke seasons with big contracts, particularly when those fluke seasons are delivered by aging players (Anderson again, Jose Valentin, Jorge Sosa).
He invests too much in old players with injury histories (Franco, El Duque, Alou, and Castillo–everyone should have expected the rapid decline of Castillo. Players who rely on speed have short shelf-lives–particularly if they start to suffer from injuries.
That said, he has done some things right. He resisted the urge to overpay for Santana. He resisted the temptation to trade a guy like Murphy for a rental reliever.
His draft acumen has yet to be determined.
Omar is not terrible, but does anybody think that he would be a functional GM without an enormous pocketbook? Without money, he would be lost. This is not a characteristic of a good GM, which Omar is emphatically not.
I think that was sensible and I need to clarify in that by no means do I think omar has done a Great Job. I’m just really not into the Omar bashing that fans are way too into for the simple fact that this team missed the playoffs. You’re right with the injury point and it’s quite possible that without such resources Omar would fail with another team.
All I’m saying is enough with the hindsight judgments (like the Bannister trade, enough. If everyone was so smart they would have all been speaking out when the trade was made but NO ONE did.)
It’s hard to say what Omar would do without so much money but the fact is the MEts got it done when it came to Santana and Beltran. Both players were heavy, HEAVY Yankee rumors and in years past that would have meant they woulda been in pinstripes. As GM of the Mets you better start tossing money around to land those important free agents. And Omar has done that, which in my opinion has had a larger affect on this team’s directions than his mishaps, like trading away Fat Heath Bell and Lidstrom/Owens.
We agree on what Omar has done right and what he has done wrong, though we seem to weigh the two differently.
2 points of disagreement:
1-I recall there were indeed A LOT of people who questioned trading 400 MPH worth of fastball for nothing. No one thought guys like Johnson and Vargas would amount to anything. If you have 4 guys with 100MPH fastballs, chances are that at least one would work out. And Heath Bell is fat. So what?
2-We are not comparing Omar to nothing or to a real incompetent. We are comparing him to another GM who might do a better job. I am certain that there are other GMs out there who would do better. I, however, do not trust Jeff Wilpon–who is a greater liability to this team than Omar–to find the right guy, and it is very possible that he will find someone worse than Omar. It might be a good idea to stick with the devil we know, particularly when he’s not that bad.
The more i think about this CC thing as compared to the bullpen the more i think about just what can be done to fix the bullpen. granted signing K rod will help because you have an anchor at the end of the bullpen, but what about the other guys. You going to make Manuel pitch six guys every night cuz he still has only specialists like this past year? Unless I have not been paying attention, there is no such thing as a bullpen pitcher tree where we can just pluck guys off that can do exactly what we need. This team will not be dumping seven guys and replacing them with seven new ones. WE need a closer, we need one crossover guy and the rest like it or not we already have. So whats wrong with signing the best pitcher on the market to go seven innings, having two other guys in Santana and Pelf who can go that deep consistently and also Maine who is good for six probably. The less innings the bullpen throws the better they will be and a closer at the end like Fuentes will do the trick. Just my opinion of course but how much can we expect him to fix?
But I can see CC using the two NY teams to drive up the price for the Angels/Dodgers, where he seems to actually want to play.
While it would be great to have him, it can’t be done at the expense of not improving other areas of the team. The last thing we need is to sign him and then bring back the same bullpen under the pretense of “CC pitches a lot of innings so that will help the bullpen”. He used that line after Johan and we all can see how well that turned out.
I hate to say it, but I think the money has to be spent on K-Rod.
I’m surprised a bunch of New Yorkers can’t see the writing on the wall. The Yankees are signing CC Sabathia. Aside from the juiced up Giambi of 2001, or whatever the year was, there has NEVER, in my mind, been a more obvious free agent signing. Sabathia is a Yankee, plan and simple. And K-rod will be a Met, because Omar will address this team’s biggest need.
A few months ago I would agree on CC being a yankee. Right now I am not so sure as the West Coast/NL desires of CC have come about. This could all be a ploy by his agent to get the Yanks to amp up the bidding but you never know.
I do think the Yanks will probably get so desperate they will end up putting down a number that will make it near impossible to say no to.
yeah but let’s not underplay how they address first base, catcher and centerfield. they’ve got a few holes they have to plug themselves AND what of hughes/kennedy?
cc to the yankees isn’t quite the obvious move everyone thinks it is. there’s also talk that the yankees want to trim the fat.
That’s true - nothing is guaranteed. It of course is just my opinion which is just as valid as your’s or her’s (just not EWM’s). In MY opinion, CC is incredibly risky. He’s been beaten to death by a team that doesn’t have to worry about his long term health. He’s fat, which can be funny to joke about but true. He’s fat. And from what I’ve read he’s a very nice and honorable man, but you can’t do much about human tendencies. He’s going to get a huge contract and in 3-4 years I just can’t imagine him not turning into such a fat man that he’ll be injured, or ineffective, or both.
Either way after the season the Yankees just had, going into this wonderful stadium they’re about to - all signs point to CC in the Bronx.
good points.
agreed…Of cousre they may enter discussions but will quickly leave them when they dont offer 7 years…
At this point in time, Omar is sending out flares to everyone. And why shouldn’t he?
But when it comes down to crunch time, I dont think we’ll get CC…instead spend that money on Krod, Derek Lowe, maybe even Burnett. There are many holes…and we do need another SP…but spend a few mil and few years less for Lowe and then sign Krod and a few more relievers.
agreed, although if the mets were to get involved one major factor to consider is that cc is a great hitting pitcher who launches bombs. he wants to hit. advantage - national league.
but yeah, this is the good ol’ strategy of using new york to get your intended destination to ante up.
Bullpen has to be the #1 priority.
Can’t we all just agree to sign mike hampton?
10 years/$300 million
GET IT DONE OMAR
we got good schools.
would i love to have a rotation containg c.c. yes of course
but if it would mean we use up most of our funds to redo the pen, than let the yankees pay the money so we can fix the reason we didnt make the playoffs this year, our bullpen
but once the pen is completed than start doing the rest
This is a total smoke screen by Minaya. The Mets are not going to give CC that kind of money. Omar is making sure Cashman uses the majority of his resources on CC so he can sign Lowe without the Yankees getting in the way.
exactly…Omar is doing his job…
Exploring all possibilities and expressing interest everywhere.
At the end of the day…CC will not be a Met. (if he pulls CC and Krod, then we should build a statue right next to Jacki’s.)
Bingo!!
With 29 blown saves this year, EVERYONE knows the bullpen was the weak leg this year. We need one more solid SP to add to Santana, Maine, and Pelfrey. Niese showed some great potential but who knows.
Minaya is doing exactly what he should so we can sign a guy like lowe/burnett, work over the bullpen, and add that RH bat in LF.
I’m pretty sure that we will see Murphy in the line up this year, whether its in LF or at 2B, and Evans will either be on the 25 man or delt for bullpen help.
What about our old friend “Clutch”. CC didn’t perform last night and in ny, fans will disregard a year’s worth of service after an awful night in the playoffs. CC pitched 3.2 Innings with 5 ER last night.
are you surprised though? 4 straight starts on 3 days rest after pitching 250+ innings?
CC pitched horrible int he ALCS last year too…He got rocked in his two starts then.
and the umpire was squeezing the hell out of the zone
If Omar wanted to, he can sign both CC and K-Rod. That’s $35 million then you add a cheap Juan Rivera type in LF and get some one cheap for the 5th spot in the rotation. We’re talking about $45-50 million max. So why can’t this be done?
because that will add around $20mm to the payroll and last night on either DNL or the Wheelhouse they were saying that the Wilpons are flexible with the payroll but dont want to see it balloon much more than it is now.
Where’s the money for the rest of the bullpen?
Well, from money we’re paying our current bullpen.
Which will be used up to pay for K Rod and CC, as well as Juan Rivera?
Get real.
Lol, if Omar wanted to. The yankees will out big every other team for CC and he will sign there.
The common misconception I see here is that if the Mets sign K-Rod (likely) then they can go out and get an SP, and a bat, and we’re good.
This bullpen needs way more than K-rod. this bullpen needs new short relief, new long relief, a new setup man, a new 7th inning guy. This bullpen is totally and utterly a MESS. K-rod takes care of the 9th inning. This pen was awful even with Wagner there. See they need an SP if they don’t re-sign Oliver, who I’m tired of frankly, but other than that I don’t care if they don’t add a single bat to thsi team. They don’t need bats. They need bullpen, and that’s IT.
For the most part I agree Boscov, our problem wasn’t a closer for most of the year it was getting to our closer but I would say they do need bats. They probably don’t need a Mark Texiera bat but it wouldn’t hurt to add a middle of the line-up type bat. If nothing else than as for insurance for if Delgado underachieves.
Imagine Wagner actually coming back in Sept next year…If we have Krod and Wagner as a setup man…wow…scary…obviously all speculation and should not be counted on. But then again, Omar counted on Alou to play many games and El Duque to throw at least one pitch.
You’re right, Gina. I shouldn’t say that the Mets don’t need to add a single bat. Sure, there were a few problems with “getting the clutch hit” this season - you know, the clutch at bats that the bullpen constantly forced the offense to get into late in games.
But the main reason I say this is Delgado. Yea, great 2nd half, big surprise - awesome, etc. I get that, but there is no guarantee Delgado is doign this next season. In fact there’s no guarantee he’s hitting more than .250 with 22 homers and 87 RBIs. Now some of you woudl take that but Delgado IS the key to this offense. He’s the one true lefit Power Bat. I’d LOVE to sign Tex but there’s just no way. Beltran has and will always be a #2 hitter but because of the lack of meat in this lineup he’s seldom played there. Wright is the best hitter on the team and an RBI man so he’s got to go #3, and the 4-5 spots is the Key to any power offense. With Delgado hammering, it made such a huge difference. But that’s no guarantee and hes the MAIN reason why next season scares me. I’m sure Omar will address the Pen. But if Delgado resumes his decline, which is only inevitable, then this team’s offense could be in more trobule than I orginially anticipated.
We’ve seen what Church can do when healthy.
Hopefully he gets his rest and gets a good start from scratch in Feb.
Of course the Yanks are going to go hard after all the top FA, however they’re not going to get them all. They need a 1B, SP, OF and maybe 2B.
However, just because they didn’t make the playoffs doesn’t mean they are going to throw money away and overpay. That was George, now under Hal and Brian, they won’t be overpaying. Guaranteed.
yes, but we still need to see it over the course of a whole season so he is still a question mark and at 30 years old…
I agree Beltran warrior, if they want to compete next year they can’t afford to cross their fingers and hope the Church that we saw the first two months of the season is the Church we’ll be getting all next year.
Off the subject, but how come no one is talking about the fact that Derek Jeter only had 2 at-bats in the final 7 games once his average dipped to .301? You can’t tell me that the team and/or Jeter wanted to ensure that he ended the season with at least a .300 average, which he did (at .300).
If you watched him in his last game before the Yankees were eliminated, he could barely hold a bat…he was hit twice on the hand this year but played through it until they were out of it…once they were there was no point to him playing hurt.
exactly…there was an injury factor…He was barely ready to play for their last home game..but obviously he had to be in there for that.
But, like said below…this should be about Hanley.
who cares?
Probably because this is a Mets blog
that comment should be directed hanley ramirez who was batting .302 before game 162 and sits.
Lol, Hanley was injured. I like how the ‘Mets fan Twist’ has to be spun onto stuff like this. Like, Oh they sat Jeter and Oh they sat Hanley so the #s would stay above .300. these guys were injrued man. But I guess you’re in th eknow - you are, after all, posting on metsblog only on coffee breaks from your rfont office MLB position right?
Hanley was hurt? I didn’t know that. He played in the 2nd to last game didnt he?
you’re right, boscov. how did you know? when i’m not out there installing the wild card and screwing up the allstar game, i like to take a load reading comments on metsblog.
He hurt his hand on that diving play/rollover throw in the next-to-last game..
Lol that’s funny. BTW the all star game has got to be the dumbest, most twisted all star game in sports. How can the commish turn this media/fan showcase into a game with real implications? How can a Kansas City Royal or Texas Ranger have the ability to affect the momentum of a World Series that neither will participate in? Truly unbelievable. Beltran the warrior, if you can PLEASE advise your colleagues to persuade Selig into getting back on his medication so we can turn the all star game back to what it should be - a fun showcase for the fans to see baseball’s best players all on the field at once with no real implications.
listen, buddy. I AM BUD SELIG. any problems with how i operate, please leave a message with my colleague, mr. dialtone.
Hey, I like all this roll playing. It’s awesome. Can I be Johnny Damon….please….please? His wife wins boner of the month in my book!
CC is a LHP.
I thought RHP stands for Really Huge Pitcher.
while i believe trading Delgado is not a necessary move, a lot of media in Toronto say that they are interested in acquiring Delgado
How about the Mets trade a package including at least Delgado, Church and Kunz and get Overbay, BJ Ryan and Alexis Rios.
The Mets could then sign Manny or Hudson, Derek Lowe, Dennys Reyes and acquire 1 or 2 pieces for the bullpen, a 5th starter and 1-2 bench players
Reyes
Rios
Beltran
Manny/Wright
Wright/Overbay
Overbay/Hudson
Murphy
Schneider
Catcher
Eckstein/Easley
Tatis/Evans
Bench player
Chavez
Santana
Lowe
Pelfrey
Maine
Niese/FA/Pedro (no risk contract)
Stokes/Figueroa
Stokes/Parnell
Eyre/Lefty specialist
Smith
Beimel/Cruz/Weathers/Middle Reliever
Reyes
Ryan
Listen, we should be forming our bullpen according to the plans of success other organizations have had. Kevin Towers with the Padres, for the most part, has done an excellent job at constructing bullpens. Take a look at this article from last year by Tom Verducci of SI …
sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_verducci/11/13/padres.relief/index.html
interesting article but i still feel with Santana and Pelfrey going at least 7 innings every start a dominant 8th and 9th inning guy is essential.
Dennys Reyes and K-Rod are the perfect guys for these roles but K-Rod might be too expensive to cover all the mets needs.
for the other 3-4 guys we need in our bullpen then I believe Kevin Towers’ approach should be used
I think you are WAY overvaluing Delgado, and Kunz on this one. The Blue Jays played very well late in the season and have aspirations to contend in the AL East and WC next year. I doubt they would be interested in that. Delgado for a reliever and spare part maybe, but that’s it.
As for 2 dominant pitchers and a bad bullpen: See 2001 Arizona Diamondbacks.
while Santana can be as effective as Randy Johnson was
CC sabathis is not Curt schilling especially at 150 mil+ and the fact he can’t win in the playoffs
Or 2008 Arizona Diamondbacks
Good point
I’d be incredibly worried about Sabathia with his size and the weigh the cubs have been pitching him. I think giving him that kind of a contract is just to much of a risk. I’d also be worried about Sheets , and depending on the contract Lowe, not because of the injury history but because of is age.
Also maybe I’ve just missed it but I’ve noticed no one has really talked about going after Pat Burrel to play left field.
he’s going to want too much money. i could easily see him the juan samuel treatment too. he’s a phillie who strikes out a ton and doesn’t drive in as many runs as he should when you consider the lineup and his place in said lineup.
33 hrs and 80-something rbis? i dunno…
Actually I’d be more worried about the way the brewers have been pitching him.
i don understand how you are worried more about CC and Manny but less worried about Burrell…what world are u living in
easy. manny is going to be 37. cc’s weight concerns and mileage on his arm. burrell’s younger and addresses the concern of a right handed power bat.
pretty simple.
Incredibly insightful. The book on Burrell right now is that he cannot get around on an inside fastball, where he once crushed them. It could be his back bothering him, or age slowly creeping up on him. It might be time for him to adjust his swing.
I hope Burrell is not playing for us in 09…and I dont think he would want to.
He is very streaky…and another aging hitter. The only aging hitter I would pay would be Manny, and theres a big jump in ability when we starting talking Manny compared to anyone.
Any pitcher is risky.
Burrell….no thanks.
Did i miss something because i am pretty sure AJ Burrnet HAS NOT OPTED OUT OF HIS CURRENT CONTRACT. Why do ppl keep saying to sign him and to think he going to be cheap in a weak SP market after the big names out there sign…….ugh i dont mind ppl sayin sign this one or that one but come on ppl at least know who is a free agent and who isnt
there is the starting pitching available not much really
Kris Benson (33)
A.J. Burnett (32) - can opt out after ‘08 season
Paul Byrd (38)
Roger Clemens (46)
Matt Clement (33)
Bartolo Colon (36)
Ryan Dempster (32)
Shawn Estes (36)
Josh Fogg (32)
Freddy Garcia (33)
Jon Garland (29)
Tom Glavine (43)
Mike Hampton (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Livan Hernandez (34)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Jason Jennings (30)
Randy Johnson (45)
John Lackey (30) - $9MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Jon Lieber (39)
Braden Looper (34)
Rodrigo Lopez (33) - club option for ‘09
Derek Lowe (36)
Greg Maddux (43)
Pedro Martinez (37)
Sergio Mitre (28)
Jamie Moyer (46)
Mark Mulder (31) - $11MM club option for ‘09 with a $1.5MM buyout
Mike Mussina (40)
Carl Pavano (33) - $13MM club option for ‘09 with a $1.95MM buyout
Brad Penny (31) - $8.75MM club option for ‘09 with a $2MM buyout
Odalis Perez (32)
part two
Oliver Perez (27)
Andy Pettitte (37)
Sidney Ponson (32)
Mark Prior (27)
Kenny Rogers (44)
Glendon Rusch (34)
C.C. Sabathia (28)
Curt Schilling (42)
Ben Sheets (30)
John Smoltz (42)
Tim Wakefield (42) - perpetual $4MM club option
Kip Wells (32)
Randy Wolf (32)
Yes, we’d like Sabathia, K-Rod, Lowe, Tex, etc. The thing is that my head is a bit spinning from yesterday’s odd and vague accounts regarding the injury of Santana. I mean, when was he injured, when did he first feel pain, when did he know it, when did the team know it. I don’t think I have the patience right now to dig up all of the varying dates, but I do remember somewhere him saying that this has bothered him to some extent the whole season. That said, did he have this pain before he was traded? Were the Mets informed? What I’m getting at here is both Santana and Sabathia - and K-Rod for that matter, have a ton of mileage on them. Would you pay all of that money for a used car? We already have. The next question is can the team afford another one? OK, they are the Rolls Royces and Lamborgini’s of the MLB. Nearly 300 mil for those two pitchers and possibly another 75 for K-ROD is a ton of risk. But, we do need pitching and to get a guy like Ollie for 75 mil would be money worse spent.
We should be forming our bullpen according to the plans of success other organizations have had. Kevin Towers with the Padres, for the most part, has done an excellent job at constructing bullpens. Take a look at this article from last year by Tom Verducci of SI …
sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_verducci/11/13/padres.relief/index.html
Really good read.
I think you need to have a top of the market closer, but I would agree with Towers strategy after that and I think you see some of that in a few of Omar’s moves over the past few seasons, though not nearly to the extent or success of Towers.
Odalis Perez, Brian Stokes, etc.
Brandon Knight might be able to be one of these guys
One of his rules is to get high K/9 pitchers. Our best K/9 pitcher is Heilman with 9.47.
I wonder how much of that success has to do with PETCO?
Great article though.
I think I’d much rather spend tons of money on K-Rod then CC. At least with K-Rod, the Mets would be making a splash in the area of most concern, and not many would argue against that decision, at least outside of money considerations.
You get CC, yeah the team would improve. But then this offseason becomes one huge debate on whether or not his arm will survive the season. It’s not the step forward the Mets and the fans need to forget the past two “collapses”.
completely agree. bullpen first. CC wont be signed until late in the offseason just like santana.
i agree with Krod first and then work your way down. I think we need at least 2 “crossover” bullpen arms.
We do have some effective bullpen pieces, that when not over utilized can be a strength.
Stokes could be a good set up man in the 8th. Ayala could as well. I think most of us here are in agreement that Sanchez could easily return to form next year (of course he might not, but after his first full season back and a full offseason to rest and work out, who knows.)
Smith/Show as your Roogy/Loogy
then sign the two “crossover guys” as your long/middle relief.
9th - Krod
8th/7th - Stokes/Ayala/Sanchez
6th/long relief - “crossovers”
Roogy - Smith
Loogy - Show (he did have a good year against lefties, just cant get a righty batter out)
thoughts?
I’m not totally sold on signing Sabathia. The Brewers absolutely abused him this year. Plus, I’m not sure he’s a New York kind of guy. He seems to really like the smaller markets like Cleveland and Milwaukee. Not sure he would be able to handle the constant pressure that is NY. Someone I would definitely like to see as a Met is Jake Peavy. The Padres are looking to cut payroll and Peavy gets more expensive each year(although relatively cheap for the Mets). Maybe a package starting with Fernando Martinez and Aaron Heilman could get him. His contract is in the neighborhood of what Pedro was making, I believe. I’m not sure about Fernando Martinez. He has “Alex Ochoa” and “Alex Escobar” written all over him.
you have no idea how jake peavy would handle new york either. he’s a southern boy while cc is from cali. i’d trust cc more than peavy.
Also, what are the Mets plans for Eddie Kunz? I thought he was the future closer. Signing K-Rod pretty much ends that. This might not be the smartest idea, but it’s different: Why not resign Pedro to a smaller incentive based contract and make him the closer? Let Kunz develop in AAA for half a season or so. Pedro in short spurts might be pretty effective. I also think the whole thing with him giving up first inning runs this year was just an abberation.
what about kunz in the 8th inning? maybe not this year but next.
think of mariano and whetland…..
Anyone else realize Citibank is giving us $20 mil a year extra or is that just to cover construction costs? We could pretty much keep our budget this year and have that $20 mil to cover a bigger name contract.
READ THIS ARTICLE ….
sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_verducci/11/13/padres.relief/index.html
if omar can do that and sign manny and acquire a closer, some decent bench players and a 3rd starter then thats perfect
I don’t see any way the Mets get Sabathia….he is either going to go where he thinks the best fit will be, or where the money is best. By all accounts, he thinks the fit will be in the West, and I can’t see any possibility of the Mets outbidding the Yankees. Especially after the Mets got Johan last year, the Yanks will not let them get CC. If the Mets offer him 7/150, the Yanks will offer him 7/175. The Yanks have more money, and will spend it. There is no way that they go into their new stadium next year with the cross-town Mets also going into a new stadium with two of the top-5 pitchers in the game.
I’d like to see Sabathia done blue and orange, but that’s more of a dream than anything. I think we have the potential to throw that type of money at him, but he seems like a guy who’d prefer to go home and get paid a little less.
But it’s always a good thing to drive the Yankee’s price up. I would offer him inbetween Zito and Johan. Yankee’s will offer more but that’s a good thing.
Here we go again. The goal here is to have a TEAM that plays like a TEAM — like every frigging World Series winner ever. Slapping more dollars at C.C. Sabathia is meaningless if you’re not adding position players are bullpen pitchers with the right character.
Also, Delgado needs to go, largely for chemistry reasons. It’s clear he’s kind of the default veteran guru, and he’s no leader.
I think Manny would be a good team player on the mets…if u notice the only players that have had problems with Ramirez were Youkilis and Schilling…we know Manny was great friends with Papi. That being said with all the Dominicans on the mets I feel like he would fit right in and LOVE to be part of the mets and be a leader for Reyes and Beltran and take pressure of Wright
CC is a good club house guy. Does a lot for the community by way of charity work. He works hard, and a good athlete for a big guy. Don’t forget, he can hit.
I think we would get more use out of a $18M per year from CC than $15M per year from K-Rod. Imagine two Ace lefties against the Phillies. Game over.
Now, you mention first base. Who are we going to get to play that position? There is no one out there. One more year won’t hurt us.
Well, I think he will be on the left coast anyways so its moot. But if he is thinking about pitching in NY, it would help us out a lot if we could net him.
Don’t you think CC will cost at least 22 instead of 18?
Well….let me loosen my tie, unbutton my top button of my shirt, take a hard gulp, and say $18, lets meet at $20.
$20M.
i dont care where cc goes, but if he wants continued success, he must pitch in the national league
I don’t think there’s much chance CC is coming to the Mets. I do think he may stay in the NL, but it won’t be in NY. For any pitcher looking to play in a big market but not deal with the media scrutiny you’ve got to think LA is the place to be. However, their problem is they have the contracts of Schmidt, Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre to work off (and people think Omar gave out bad ones). Then there’s the case of whether they decide to keep Manny after his performance both in the regular season and the playoffs. However, LA has a lot of good talent and they’d be foolish not to capitalize on it while their best youngsters are under control. Adding CC to a rotation of Billingsley and Kuroda gives them a pretty good top 3 of young pitchers with Kershaw on the way as well. I think they’d like to see Penny go because he can’t stay healthy. And signing CC may signal the end for Derek Lowe. Maybe they’d keep Maddux around to help with the younger guys. A rotation of CC-Billingsley-Kuroda-Kershaw-Maddux should win them the NL West by itself. Yes the D’backs have Webb and Haren, but a weak back end of the rotation and poor bullpen.
From the remaining free agent list there’s not a lot to fawn over. The two names I’d consider would be Lowe and Randy Wolf if Ollie leaves. We wouldn’t be expecting Wolf to be an ace, but you can do a lot worse for a #5 starter and we’ll need another lefty to go with Santana. A rotation of Santana-Pelfrey-Maine-Lowe-Wolf isn’t that bad. I like having a couple of sinkerball pitchers, since those are the guys that tend to go deeper into games. Niese has what looks like the tools, but he’s still a ways away from being able to contribute next year. Even if he does do well to earn a spot, he’s going to be limited with how many innings you let him pitch. Remember, these days you don’t look at just buildings a starting 5, you have to realistically have up to 7 or 8 starters for the full year.
This really has to be the year that they finally give the BP some defined roles. I have to imagine that a few of the guys are definitely gone, but there’s not enough attainable arms on the market to completely blow it up. If we signed K-Rod and then made Smith as a righty specialist and either Schoe/Feliciano as the lefty specialist, you’ve got half of your BP settled there. Using Stokes or Ayala as a longman gets the needs down even further. I don’t have much confidence that Duaner will get back to his 2006 level.
cant have shoenwies around next season
yup
I dont like pay Manny all that money, sure he can play great in the post season, but the road to get there is gonna be very painful with him in the clubhouse.
I think for the same money Sabathia can get, you can get both Burnett and Lowe instead, maybe 2 or 3 more millions but you get to very good starters instead of one who don’t have a good history in the post season.
I trade N.Evans and A. Reyes to Oak for H. Street.
with the closer role ready….then i sign Burnett and Lowe
then trade Castillo and Heilman to Bal for B. Roberts and C. Bradford.
Trade Church and D. Sanchez to KC for Ibanez.
Re-sign Tatis.
If they can’t get D.Eckstein or A. Miles then re-sign Easley to back up the infield.
Then you have:
1 - Santana
2 - Burnett
3 - Pelfrey
4 - Lowe
5 - Maine
Niese can be use in case of an injury, later in the season…or to rest the starters in sept while we wait for the post season (hope so)
Long RP - B. Stokes
Left Specialist - P. Feliciano
Right Specialist - C. Bradford
7,8 inning - Joe Smith
Setup man - Luis Ayala
Closer - H. Street
Line up
1 - Reyes
2 - Roberts
3 - Beltran
4 - Delgado
5 - Wright
6 - Ibañez
7 - Tatis / Murphy
8 - Schneider / Castro (.253 16 HR 62 RBI) between them….unless you can get and all star caliber cathcer…is not bad their numbers together.
This is a opening day rotation, bullpen and lineup if something missing you can get it during the season…with the new soon to be free agents.
see thats the thing, enough with the guys on the downside of his career, or we know what they r. say no to the burnetts of the world.
i much rather take the money from lowe and burnett and put it on c.c then have neise in the 5 spot.
First of all, the trade proposals are ludacrous. N.Evans and A.Reyes for Huston Street? Not a chance. Billy Beane would laugh. Heilman and Castillo for Robers adn Bradford? NEVER. Especially because Bradford isn’t even on the Orioles anymore. Ibanez is a free agent and hasn’t been on KC in 4 years.
I never said that the trades can be done exactly like i put it…is just put the main pieces, the mets can add other minor players in the mix.
Bradford my bad i thought he was still with Bal, he’s now with TB, but the Mets commit an error letting him go after his great 06 season.
Ibanez is in Seattle my bad too, but the trade still good for the mariners.
If A. Reyes and Nick Evans are the main pieces if an offer Beane would laugh at us. Reyes is pretty much worthless in any trade. Same with Heilman and Castillo to the O’s.
FrankJay, again Ibanez is a FREE AGENT! No trade needed.
I’m not seeing how you can get Burnett and Lowe for the money CC will be asking for, even if you add 2 to 3 million. I think it’s more likely the two of them would cost 30 million + together.
Sorry Franky, I lost you with the Street trade and signing two Starters for less than CC. Not gonna happen.
ok..here is my take, the money used on pedro who did nothing and perez who cant go seven will almost cancel out the contract. i know it is a huge commitment but if you have a rotation of
santana
c.c
pelfrey
maine
neise
WOW!
Committing so many years and so much money to CC Sabathia, while he is outstanding, is beyond ridiculous.
Has anyone else been watching the Mets the last two seasons?
It’s THE BULLPEN that needs immediate repair and upgrading.
THE BULLPEN!
If your car needs its brakes fixed, do you then decide instead to get its windows tinted?
If your house has a leaky roof, do you instead go out and buy a big-screen television?
If you haven’t eaten in two days and you have money, do you spend it buying video games?
The bullpen blew seven games in the late innings in which the ace, Johan Santana, held a lead. It blew 26 games in the late innings in which the team held a lead.
Expecting Sabathia to alter this trend by pitching eight innings each time, in 34 starts (about 282 innings) is like expecting Ralph Nader to be elected president in November.
All the money to lavish on Sabathia could be much more wisely spent gutting and redoing the bullpen.
There are those words again for anyone who didn’t read them?
THE BULLPEN!
CC is the last guy we need….Krod is the #1 priority and Manny is the 2nd priority..;.CC is third on the list
Wonder if we could trade for Soriano after this latest debacle.
Airfeet: Breaking the bank to sign K-Rod isn’t the best option, either. Why not trade for Kansas City’s Joakim Soria, who at 25 is younger than K-Rod, was 42-for-45 in save opps last year, sported a 1.60 ERA and whose contract would be a tiny fraction of what K-Rod would command?
umm that all sounds good but what makes you think that they would give him up? 25, cheap $$.
doesnt make sense, unless they have someone in the waiting but hes “25″
I imagine the asking price for Soria would be pretty high. Possibly higher than we can afford.
speaking of ridiculous trade proposals…
Its funny that the article really does not give ANY hint of the Mets wanting to sign CC. The closest is “the Wilpons say that the budget isn’t strict”.
We are waisting our time gentleman. By the, if I were a Cubs fan, I would be really mad.
Cool Papa: The Cubbies were—and are—vulnerable. People forget they fattened their record by playing a total of 38 games against the Pirates and Reds. And not starting Zambrano in Game 1 to set the tone, was also a mistake.
Yeah, you have a point but they ate us up with half their team. They ate the Brew Crew up everytime they played them, even in their last series together when the Cubs had their AAA team out there. They are a lot better than the Dodgers. I am reliving 1988 all over again and its making me uncomfortable.
Zambrano
Lilly
Harden
Dempster
with a deep bullpen.
Sorian
D Lee
Soto
Ramirez
Thats tough to beat. Fukudome, I feel could make that line-up unstoppable, but the sad fact is that he is having a hard time making adjustments to the adjustments.
I would think Cubs fans would be used to this by now.
Still, they got better than expected seasons from Theriot and DeRosa at the plate. Not to mention Geo Soto came out of nearly nowhere.
Dempster competely overachieved but when I saw that of his 17 wins, 14 came at Wrigley it just screamed inconsistency.
Soriano is pulling a fold job in the postseason, something that happened even when he was on the Yankees.
No one in the NL is that much better than the rest of the league, or no one is baseball is that much better than the rest of the competition for that matter. Although seeing the Brewers absolutely lie down for the Phillies sickens me.
Soto was advertised as good as he is playing. The only question is was how long was it going to take for him to get that good. BP and Baseball America has Soto as one of the Best Catching prospects in the league.
Looks like Soto is supposed to be the next Russell Martin, too bad the Dodgers already have Russell Martin.
I do wonder if letting him play so many games was not the right move. He played like 140 games? I know he’s young, but that’s a lot for anyone to absorb behind the dish.
very frustrating, because we could have made a run for the pennant, as bad as our pen was
i write here that the Cubs pitching were overrated and some write that i was crazy.
i only hope that the dodgers bat keep doing in it to the Phillies too…the Phillies pitching is worst than the Cubs.
I prefer the dodgers to win thant Philadelphia.
hmmm, thats tough. I HATE the dodgers, so it will be tough to root for anyone. I don’t hate the Phillies, but I hate their fans. If they were to win, then we would never hear the end of it.
I’ve gotten past 1988, I think sweeping them in 2006 helped provide closure. I was 8 years and was crushed when I watched them go down early in game 7 because I knew Orel wasn’t going to let anything up.
To choose between the lesser of two evils, I got to go with the Dodgers.
I would love to have him don’t get me wrong … but it just does not make sense to me considering the fact that the Mets need a) bullpen help and b) maybe another big bat in that OF. Starting pitching was not the problem last year. IF they plan on signing K-Rod and CC then hey I am all for it. But if they don’t address this bullpen and try to fix it with the guys they have already signing CC won’t do anything for them. The problem with the Mets pitching was not from innings 1-6 or 7. For the most part it was innings 8 and 9.
I just don’t see that as a rational move by the Mets at all considering what they need. But again would love to see it.
I don’t know if I am buying into this. I don’t see the Mets going after CC when starting pitching was not there problem last year. How would Johan feel about the Mets bringing in CC and paying him more? The only reason he had all those complete games this year was one reason. The Brewers know they are not re signing him so they don’t care about his arm. There is no way a team is going to sign him to a 7 year deal and let him throw as many pitches and innings he did with the Brewers.
priorities:
1. k-rod
2. manny
3. sabathia
Yup.
184 comments and no one brings up yu darvish
I don’t think he would be much help next year.
Yu Darvish is not going to be posted this year.
we don’t know if he’s posting. until then, it doesn’t matter. he’ll be even more money than dice-k.
Forget Sabathia. Sign K-Rod, sign Lowe, trade for Roy Holliday, and bulster the bullpen somehow. Then we are world series bound
This guy who wrote this article is an idiot and obviously has not watched many Mets games this year if he feels CC is the answer for the Mets. K-Rod and other bullpen help is the answer.
Halladay would cost us a ton. At least Pelfrey or Maine and a major league ready prospect and a high ceiling guy (think Murphy and F-Mart or Wilmer “Valderama” Flores). We got the guy that can anchor the rotation last year. Now we need guys that can help us win on a daily basis.
If Toronto put Halladay available i geve them Maine and Fernando Martinez for him, then i signed Lowe instead of Perez and trade for a closer.
Platoon Murphy and Tatis in on OF and trade for a 2B.
The relievers you can get it via sign or trade and still have Church, Sanchez and Heilman to Seattle for Ibanez to play RF (not exactly only 3 players). Church can play their outfiled, Sanchez can play their bullpen and a change in scenario for Heilman can help him too, or even he can start there.
Ibanez is a free agent.
Ibanez turns 38 next season. Please stay away.
That is allot of trading. What team is going to trade us a top of the line closer? None. The answer is simple. K-Rod. The guy is a proven winner and gets it done in big games. He is by far one of the top 3 closers in the game behind Mo and take your pick between him and Papelbaum. That is what we need. He is 26 years old and already has 208 saves
i fully agree with what you are saying.
maybe we dont need to give up a core guy for holliday.
i was thinking a church, fmart, and a pitcher such as neise could get this done. Holliday is the perfect RIGHT HANDED bat this team really needs. we are way to lefty happy
Reyes (s)
Beltran (s)
Wright (R)
Holliday (R)
Delgado (L)
Murphy(L)
2b (anyone but killstillo)
castro/schneider
pitcher
that is an amazin lineup for the amazins
a core of reyes,wright,holliday, wowa!
The problem is, Holliday will be 29 by the time the season starts, and away from Coors he’s much less of a hitter than at home. He’s really not worth F Mart, Church and Niese. There wouldn’t be a HUGE discrepancy between Church’s production and Holliday’s.
Sorry, the Jays are not trading Halliday. Why would they? They’re on the rise in a division that’s becoming competitive again.
ohh and murphy…
he is no fluke!
We’ll find out next season. He hit about .180 in September and made a ton of errors.
Mets should try to keep Ollie, perhaps to a 3yr/40 mill deal with an 15 mil option for the 4the year. He’s the youngest SP on the market and we wouldnt lose our draft picks if we has to sign a type-A free agent to replace him. (Not sure if Ollie is a Type-A free agent, in that case, letting him loose and signing another type A free agent would be a wash, and we would still have our first round pick
.
It’s not a wash because if we let him go we get 2 picks for him in return. It would only cost us one to sign a new pitcher.
Yeah I’m all for keeping Ollie but not at a ridiculous price and especially if we get two picks for him.
I want no part of him. He is a bullpen killer.
He only averages 5 2/3 innings per start and never pitched 8 innings or more the entire season.
Nick Evans and Scott Moviel for Ian Snell.
Luis Castillo for Eric Byrnes.
Sign Chad Cordero(probable non-tender by Washington).
Fernando Martinez, Aaron Heilman, Bobby Parnell for Jake Peavy
Sign Brandon Lyon
Duaner Sanchez, Pedro Feliciano, A. Reyes for Javier Vazquez.
SP:
Santana
Peavy
Pelfrey
Maine
Vazquez
BP:
Snell
Cordero
Lyon
Niese
Ayala
Show
Smith
Lineup:
SS-Reyes
2B-Murphy
3B-Wright
1B-Delgado
CF-Beltran
LF-Byrnes
RF-Church
C-Schneider/Castro
Keep dreaming.
If that were my dream, I’d wake up screaming. Yikes.
Wow, why would the Whitesox trade Vasquez for castoff bullpen memebers and Awful Reyes? That makes no sense for them.
Cordero’s arm fell off and he prob. won’t be able to reattach it before 2025.
The Pirates want a young SP’s ransom for Snell. That’s why he was not already traded.
The Padres might do that deal IF you threw in Pelfrey. LOL.
Niese is a starting pitcher and the only real candidate we have in the minors for a starter. He will either be in AAA or our #5.
The Castillo for Byrnes on has weight but you would have to include another prospect. Most likely a pitcher.
But other than that, you are spot on. ;)
the peavy proposal made me laugh out loud
I liked the Ian Snell, Eric Byrnes, and the Brandon Lyon idea, but the rest in unrealistic.
I like the Jake trhe idea of bringing Jake Peavy over, but be prepared to part with F-Mart, Niese, and Flores.
So many of you guys say we should spend the money on the bullpen, and while it needs to be addressed, there are only so many guys out there. K-ROd or Fuentes would be great, but guess what? We’re not getting both. Say what you want, it’s not gonna happen. They both want to close games, and if we have one, the other is not gonna sign. Fuentes may be going back to Colorado anyway.
Who else do you want to get? Surely we need more in the pen, but who else is gonna be on the market that will really help us out? Jeremy Affeldt would be nice, but beyond that there’s really not much to spend the money on.
I forgot to mention Darren Oliver as well… do what it takes to get him back here. I don’t care if it’s weird because he was here once before. Just get him here if you want to win.
Check out Juan Cruz’s numbers from Arizona. This guy has closer type numbers.
Help you out a little. He had 71 K’s in 51 innings.
Give me K-Rod, Manny and C.C. or give me death!
Welp you will have to choose death. Not even possible to sign that many or come up with the extra 70 million it will cost to get it done.
If the Mets sign CC to go along with Johan, a healthy Maine and an improving Pelfry and some new arms in the bullpen(Fuentes?) and some tweaking of the offense They will be the best team in the NL AND in the playoffs they could put Maine or Pelfrey in the bullpen!! oh yeah and Bobby V.
Rotation
Santana
,Pelfrey,
CC,
Maine,
Niese
Lineup
1b Murphy
2b Hutson
3b DW
SS Jose
LF ?(Byrnes)
CF Beltran
RF Church
C Castro, ?
Bullpen
Smith
Feliciano
Stokes
Parnell
Cordero?
Fuentes
Bench
Tatis
A. Reyes
Endy
Evans
Trade Delgado and Scneider get decent catcher, reliever , bench player or prospect
i like it…it would be the most dominating rotation in baseball…which cordero are u talking about…i aslo think the bullpen would need a few more new faces…i like stokes and all but i think id rather see someone new in that spot …i also dont know if parnell is ready for a full time spot….but CC would be amazing…..y would he want to go to an american league team…..look how good the nl is treating him
Where do I begin –
Getting Sabathia would be insane. The Mets should address the problem — the bullpen — resign the parts that worked (Perez, Church, Delgado), then maybe consider excess frills (Maybe Manny).
The competition for Sabathia is the Yankees. THE YANKEES. They will heighten the stakes to historic levels. Levels that the Mets won’t take.
The Mets cannot magically summon Eric Byrnes. The D’Backs probably wouldn’t trade him at this point, considering that they are better off keeping him and hope he produces at 2006 levels. Even if they did, they wouldn’t settle for Castillo
Other teams will be looking for a second baseman. The Mets are better off going with Murphy at second.
Supposedly after the injury, Cordero’s fastball should be at the mid-80s. Not worth it.
If the Mets wish to trade Carlos Delgado, they must take his $16 million option, or he’s a free agent and the Mets pay $4 million for a buyout. Sounds like the worst idea I’ve ever heard.
Back up plan to Krod
Sign Everyday Eddie and Juan Cruz.Go with the 2 headed closer.
BP
Everyday Eddie
Cruz
Stokes
Ayala
Smith
Parnell
Loogy
love that idea. Save som cash.
isn’t he like 38,39? might as well just wait for wagner to come back
Sign
krod
CC
hudson
and a few new relievers??
i think that would be perfect for this team…the rotation would be extremely dominant and we would have krod to close it out…hudson is just an idea but it would give the extra bat they need in the lineup for situational hitting
Ain’t gonna happen
some of the trades proposed by fans are so incredibly absurd…I mean, I know it’s fun and all to fantasize, but for people to seriously put forth every year, “we trade crap player x,y and z for one of the best players in the game”…maybe I’m just grumpy. I’ll go get a beer.
This comment is for THE REAL…Jaun Cruz is a very good pitcher but he is not a closer…hes a good setup guy though
I would go after CC and offer him a contract just under Johan’s in terms of value — but only if they don’t skimp on a new closer and setup relievers. It would at least drive up the price for anyone else interested particularly the Yankees.
It’s nonsense that CC would lessen the burden on the bullpen significantly. Maybe a little … but if the bullpen isn’t addressed in a big way, then this team will go into 2009 once again with a fatal flaw. And then you’d hear all the disingenuous whining from blowhards like Fatcessa about breaking up the core up the core.
If CC were a Met on a big contract, you wouldn’t want to pitch him as hard as the Brewers did. You’d want to protect your investment. So CC or not, the Mets need to address their bullpen in a big way. That is priority #1.
As for Klaptrap, he reported last winter that the Mets were going to go after A-Rod full throttle after his opt-out. He was totally wrong. So take anything he says with a grain of salt.
It was wise not to go after A-Rod. You wouldn’t want the whole team to take after him and be bad in the clutch, would you?
I agree. I didn’t want the Mets to take on his baggage and huge contract. But there were some Mets fans here last winter who were pas-sionately advocating A-Rod for the Mets.
The thing is, Klaptrap wasn’t just speculating when he said the Mets would pursue A-Rod full throttle. He reported that as a fact. I don’t know where some of these reporters get their facts. I think he & Fatcessa are two of a kind when it comes to facts.
GET MANNY AND K-ROD!!!!
SCREW SABATHIA. HE CHOKES IN THE POST-SEASON ANYWAY!!!
WE HAVE AN ACE BUT WE HAVE NO PEN!!! WE NEED A PEN!!
hey guys think about this one. trade parnell, heilman showenweis and castillo for peavy. we pay castillo’s contract though. that would be great because we get a great pitcher with a small contract, we dump some really bad players and it saves us money to sign orlando hudson krod and fuentes.
LOL, why would SD want our “really bad players?”
A trade is supposed to benefit both sides. See: Volquez/Hamilton.
Totally unnecessary. Nothing else to be said.
Spending $10 million a year for a closer is ridiculous.
Getting another Million Dollar Starter is ridiculous.
Getting Manny I’d consider, but Objective #1: Brian Fuentes, Objective #2: Dan Wheeler
TilMets………,
The reason I mentioned Byrnes was an Arizona columnist suggested Byrnes for Castillo and as far as Delgado his option is for 12 million not 16. His value is at its best Trade him to the AL . I too would love to get Manny but is he worth 80 to 100 million for 4 yrs?
I say K-Rod should be our #1 must before we consider anything else(not nessicarily in cronological order, but on a prioritized standpiont). Feuntes won’t want to become a set-up man and somebody else will overpay for him anyway. My first choice would be Byrnes for left feild and Murph at 2nd batting 2nd. Other than that, other than that. No major ajustments are really needed. Yes a starter such as Lowe or Perez(when i say no major ajustement i mean we’re not getting Halladay or Peavy or evev CC for that matter so just stop idc how much they’d help….but its not worth it lol). For the number 5 spot, I don’t think Neise is ready. Mabe a low risk low pay guy like Freddy Garcia or Mark Prior.
Something that I think can really boost up confidence,control,consistancy and trade value is to put Aaron Heilmen in the #5 spot. Im not saying its permamenant, but from what I’ve seen from Aaron, when he gets into a groove, he can be an extremly effective pitcher. In June, when he pitched great, he got into a groove. That extra inning game when he pitched 3 innings. He got into a groove and trusted his stuff when it mattered and it turned out tremendous. The Astros in Billy Wagner’s young career thought he was alittle too erratic so sent him to start and get his stuff straightened out. Heilmen would be happier, we have a need. And I think the results would show. I understand all the reasons why you shouldn’t so save it. But until Neise is ready or somebody else knocks him out of the spot. I think it would help the mets and Aaron if he started #5. No matter if you want a new bullpen, I understand and fully agree. But as of now, his value is close to nothing b/c of the games he blew. But I can see it now. We trade him for nothing and when the pressures off, he’s phenominal on another team. “Great another mistake by Omar”. NOBODY ON THIS BLOG CAN SAY HE IS NOT A GOOD PITCHER. or potential to be, b/c we’ve all seen it. He seems plenty eagar to throw his slider and obviosly his fastball and change up, so tell me what you think. I just think his potential to get back to regular form it too great, while too little market value.
1) Heilman might be able to return to form as a starter, but can WE really afford to let him take that chance in a Mets uniform? That’s why we trade him, so another team with not as much to risk, can take those chances. We’ve seen what spotty pitching performances do to our postseason chances here, and I’m not on board for any more next year, are you?
2) If the D-Bags will do Castillo for Byrnes, you take the deal and do it quickly before they back out. Everyone knows about Byrnes’ injuries, but he can rebound and at his age, his contract is still redeemable. Castillo’s contract is not, it’s just smaller. But the biggest reason to do the deal is this: I would actually PLAY Byrnes when he wasn’t injured, while I wouldn’t want to play Castillo when he was healthy.
3) If Peavy is available, I think you at least need to check the price. I’m sure it’s too high, but if you started with FMart, Niese, Evans and Heilman if they were interested in him, how much farther away are we?
4) The same goes for Halladay, NOT Holliday, Halladay. And if they are interested in Delcrapo, he gets included in the deal. FMart, Delcrapo, Niese, Evans, and Heilman and how much farther away from a deal are we?
If either of those pitching deals are fairly close at that point, you’ve got to consider pulling the trigger.
That leaves all that extra money to go fix the real problem, the bullpen, and gives you the shot in the arm opening up Citifield next year. It’s a win-win. The ONLY downside is that it doesn’t allow you to get into the losing end of a bidding war with the Yankees over CC to make sure they bid that price up nice and high, because as has already been discussed ad nauseum, he’s gonna fall apart soon, and I’d love to see it happen in pinstripes for a long time with a hefty contract.