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According to John Heyman of SI.com, the Mets have agreed to terms with Jerry Manuel.
Manuel will sign a two-year contract with a club option for 2011.
…Update…8:20 am…
The Mets will hold a 1 pm conference call, according to WFAN, to announce Manuel as the 19th manager in team history.
“I am thrilled and appreciative for the opportunity that Ownership and Omar have given me to continue to manage the Mets,” Manuel is quoted as saying in team press release.
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Fire Jerry!!!! (though I’d get an early start.)
Haaaa
damn…beat me to it.
First bad move Omars made this offseason. Let’s hope it’s the only.
Why is it a bad move?? Because we didn’t replace him with a completely overrated shlub like Valentine who really never had a chance at the job?
Yup. That’s why. Stupid, stupid, stupid move. Omar does not understand what is needed to remedy this situation. Didn’t last year and doesn’t this year. Cronyism rules the roost.
So Jerry Manuel is the problem??
Oh now I get it!! He was the problem all along!!! Stupid me, I always thought it was our god awful bullpen, and lack of clutch hitting, but nope, it’s Jerry Manuel!
(People need to get off of Bobby V.’s……)
nope, he was just part of the problem. He was part of the Willie regime. The Wilpons think failure is acceptable.
The Mets went 55-38 under Jerry, how is that failure??
People need to get over themselves. Bobby V. isn’t some damn messiah, he’s an overrated manager, and he won’t “save” the Mets.
Failure is not being able to motivate or manage this talented team with their three stars having career years into the playoffs. Every team has injuries. The Wilpons decided to continue the Willie Jerry regime instead of a fresh start. We’ll see how that works out for them, hopefully not more of the same.
Jerry, the guy you decided to spend your day defending, ran Aaron Heilman out over and over again after rosters expanded. That should be case closed. The pen was a disaster, but there was one or two guys worse than the others. You can attribute the wins to Jerry if you like, but I can say this: there is no causal relation that you can point to that says that Willie wouldn’t have had the same results. The team was already starting to play better before they sacked Willie, and it had too much talent not to win between 80-90 games. The most I can say for Jerry is that he showed no creativity when it came to the pen, particularly on the one game that could have gotten the team into a playoff with the Brewers. The fact is Bobby V, no matter what you think of him, took a team lacking talent (check out his starting outfield) to the world series, while Willie/Jerry did precisely the opposite. In my opinion, this team doesn’t need a best buddy or a manager popular with the players and media.
itsmetsforme got it. 55-38 is nothing, it’s the results that matters, and the result was failure. This team never found consistency. The bullpen would stand up and have 20 scoreless, and then blow lead after lead. Manuel failed to learn his players, learn who he could trust, and make the right moves. He seemed to flip a coin or forget about players in both the bullpen, and the bench, and then suddenly find them again. (Ramon Martinez? Sat on the bench for weeks and then all of a sudden played everyday. He fell in love with Argenis who sucks.. We all complained about how he used Kunz.)
I don’t necessarily need Valentine, I just think an outside perspective is what’s needed here. It sometimes feels like there was/is a “anybody but Willie” crowd that fell in love with Manuel for that reason, and are blinded by it.
No one and I mean no one would be able to work with the Mets current bullpen and be able to survive even if the Mets were in the playoffs. Tell me what would of Bobby Valentine would of done differently than Jerry Manuel? He had Tatis out, no Alou, Castillo stinks, A. Reyes, while good defensively, had no bat to speak of.
I mean Jerry Manuel did everything he could do with this ballclub to get them close to the playoff picture and he was one game shy of doing that.
We should have waited until Mike Scoscia is fired next week. After all, his season was a failure, right? And the Angels MUST be smarter than us, and won’t keep a failure around.
I think Jerry deserved the extension. However, it’s all about the players and Omar Minaya must get creative and revamp a key aspect of our ballclub, the bullpen. What makes this task challenging is the fact that virtually every team in the Majors in looking to upgrade their bullpen.
Some names I was thinking about via trade or free agency
K-Rod, J.J. Putz, Chad Cordero (get him while cheap), Brandon Lyon, Brian Fuentes, Fernando Rodney among others. Some names in here appear unlikely, but you never know. How’s Luis Castillo and cash relief to Ariz for RHP Tony Pena? Or maybe Rafael Perez from the Indians…I don’t know, just fix the bullpen. Sign Derek Lowe too, he’s got post-season experience and is a warrior!
Maybe Bobby V. can be his body double. We already know he has gla$$es and a moustache. :-)
Bobby V must’ve been a ploy.
more i think about it, Omar probably couldn’t handle the V.
Big Deal unless Omar makes big moves this team would just let other teams walk all over them agian
I agree with you Metfreak… not just other teams but REALLY BAD teams.
I think Bobby V was the Press speculating.
Manuel makes sense to Mets, and I’m happy it’s a 2 year deal.
Now lets see what he does with his pen for an entire year.
I wonder what coaches won’t return
What’s his name at third has to go.
FIRE WHAT’S HIS NAME!!
He’s the worst!
Luis Aguayo
Duh….we know his name. Well, all of us except maybe the OP.
Yea, I kinda figured that after I posted it. Kinda hard to detect sarcasm on a message board.
Oliver Perez doesn’t know Aguayo? He must… (yes, I’m kidding)
Good got that over with. Next Delgado then the world. HAHAHA.
Victory Stewie!
Beefsteak Manny…Giggidy giggidy.
blast damn you all, victory stewie
Jerry was acting tough not wanting to sing the contract but as soon as bobby V became an option, he got scared and signed it. Tough no more….
I’d pay to watch Jerry sing the contract….what kind of melody goes with employment legalese? Gangsta rap? Old school? Motown?
gotta be gangsta rap. its called “if u sign bobby v, ill cut ya”
lol
*sign the contract
BOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Boo. I like Jerry but the Wilpons apparently want to keep everything the same.
What would letting Manuel go do?
The problem wasn’t Jerry. The problem was the bullpen.
I agree. I think we have to be careful not to get in the trap of thinking different is better. That’s Howe one makes bad mistakes. ;)
HA! Nice Art Howe reference!
And Manuel got the least out of it he could.
Willie is gone forever. I invite you to accept that and move on.
What more could Jerry have done???? He had pigsh*t to work with, you can’t make gold, silver, or even copper out of pigsh*t.
Even pigsh.. has uses. He didn’t even get that out of them.
He could’ve gotten more out of the bullpen with proper management. They did have some stretches where they were good. scoreless innings streaks, Or do you think that was just luck? If he didn’t warm up everyone, every day, and did’t go matchup crazy and tell his guys they suck constantly by pulling them at the first sign of trouble, but still expecting them to get every single out by bringing them in and intentionally walking the bases loaded until they faced some guy that limited history suggest they had a .05 better chance of getting out..
He got nothing out of Castillo, and you can’t deny Casillo hasn’t been a good player in his career, but while Manuel was treating the bullpen like spring training, he also should’ve been using Castillo that way. He should’ve been in there every day, and he should’ve been pushing him to get more work in. healthy and in a rhythm.
He should’ve used John Maine since the doctors cleared him and sent him to the team, why waste his time? John Maine was pushing hard to play that last month, and Manuel basically said “I don’t want you here”. He did the same to Kunz in the bullpen.
Ramon Martinez had some big hits, but did Manuel just suddenly realize he was sitting there? maybe he could’ve played all September. Maybe he could’ve helped. He was stubborn in his use of everybody, and never learned from his mistakes. He’s an amateur.
and Patrick, since you brought it up, for the 90th time, this has nothing to do with Willie, I suspect you’re one of those “anybody but Willie” guys that fell in love with Manuel for that reason and are now blind to his many faults.
And the disappearing Houdini act the Mets offense goes through in clutch situations.
Jerry Manuel’s a good coach. I know he wanted 3 years, but two with a club option was more fair. Minaya probably would have gotten a 4 yr extension and Manuel a 3 yr had they made the post season.
Tidewater, you’re right. The problem wasn’t Jerry. The problem was the bullpen – which undeniably comes onto the shoulders of Minaya. And it’s his job to do a full repair. And if he doesn’t and we have a disaster of a bullpen like this season, than it’s time for him to get fired.
so what was the problem in 2006 when they choked that Cards series away?
Aside from Game 2 (F-in Mota and Wagner), how exactly did they choke in that series?
Short series. This year we were swept by San Diego, think they were the better team? In ‘88 we lost to the Dodgers when we were clearly the better team. In 2000 we made it to the WS when the Braves were a far superior unit. These things happen in short series.
Agreed. In years past there was not much that could have been done. This year there are plenty of options out there in middle relief and closer.
Go get Krod Darren Oliver and Juan Cruz etc.
If we can’t afford Krod then make the entire pen stronger.
Go with the double headed closer and sign Everyday Eddie AND Juan Cruz AND Oliver.
Everyday Eddie
Cruz
Oliver
Stokes
Parnell
Ayala
Smith
That looks like a decent pen and only has 1 count them 1 specialist in it in Smith. Who I think they should use more against LH anyway.
it helps to have more than one lefty in your pen
If he stinks, no it doesn’t. If the Mets want a decent one, go get Jeremy Affelt.
Aguayo was next in line to become manager….He had all of the skillsets.
skillsets = omar’s friend
What is “skillsets” in Spanish? If you don’t know, you don’t have what it takes to coach 3rd base.
Jerry has all those years as a gangsta.
Didn’t Jerry Manuel get us to go like 26-9 in a stretch in between like August 4th and September 10th? I remember seeing Matt say that Giuseppe Franco took batting practice in early August and the Mets went 27-10 until they took his commercial off the air on the 13th lol
To go 26-9 with that horrible Billy-less bullpen in that stretch of time really was amazing. We saw dominance in the hitting and starting pitching with a weak bullpen that couldn’t even weight it down. The bullpen only got worse and the rest of the Mets went back to mediocrity so that’s pretty much why we ended out our last 17 sub .500.
Omar would be threatened by having Bobby V on board… therefore, we keep a choke-stained manager and a bumbling stumbling GM… wonderful
Why would Omar be threatened by having Bobby V? Think they are going to fire Omar for Bobby V? Come on. Bobby was ran out of town last time he was here. The Wilpons would never side with him over Omar.
bobby v is more well-liked by fans and he is a smarter baseball mind with a more complete resume… Omar would be over-shadowed. Omar don’t like that.
good answer!
i doubt most on this board know who Bobby was, since he wasn’t the manager in 2006 when they became fans.
Omar and Bobby are good friends, they worked together in Texas before working together in New York, it was MInaya who recommended to Fred Wilpon that Bobby come back to New York in the mid 90s
They went 55-39 under Jerry, he shouldn’t be “choke-stained”
55-38
Jerry was the bench coach who presided over the 07 collpase, and the manager who presided over the 08 fold … he is CHOKE-STAINED.
08 was not so much of a fold as it was good luck finally running out. How long did you expect us to hold out with guys like Tatis, Evans, A. Reyes, Easley, Cancel, and that horrible excuse for a bullpen? Disappointing? Abso-freakin-lutely. Choke? Not really.
Nope, sorry. The team had problems with situational hitting (and pitching) ALL YEAR. It caught up when a higher PCT of ABs were pressure-packed.
Your argument plays right into what I was saying. When guys like Wright, Reyes, Delgado, and Beltran keep going out and putting runs on the board early only to have the bullpen blow it, it’s only human nature to put added unnecessary pressure on yourself. I agree the big sticks came up short when we need them, but I believe that it’s the result of a trickle-down effect. Idk, I may be wrong, but that’s the way I see it.
Ron Darling and Keith say it, even though players don’t want to admit it, the everyday baseball players know who is going to potentially give up runs and who “spit the bit” in certain situations.
If players know that, they want to do more than they can, it doesn’t matter what these current active players tell you.
*sigh* well this news just ruined my day
listen this is my theory, if jerry and omar do not make the postseason next year, it does not matter how many years they get. this is the two person team you want going into next seasn, there lively hood! im telling you, there going to do something real big that will energize not only the fans, but the players for 162 games atleast.
big things are coming! :P
Can we sign Johan Santana again?
How do you know? Are you in the same office Omar and ownership is in? money is not growing in Citifield, they can’t get Manny, Tex, CC and whoever else and not be hampered by contracts for years to come.
no complaints with jerry getting an extension
now onto fixing the BP…the real culprit here for 2 years
the wilpons don’t respect managers. they float the bobby v story to rip manuel off. haha.
mark cuban…buy the mets!
You do realize that the guy you are advocating owning the Mets basically owns the Mets of the NBA?
You do realize that?
As for Jerry, good for him, best of luck, the honeymoon is way over, now all that matters is getting back to the post season.
Although interesting that a fairly representative number of Mets fans preferred the option of Bobby Valentine returning nearly 2 to 1.
the mavs have a salary cap and were terrible pre-mr. cuban
You are reaching the salary cap does not make teams choke.
this sux.. what a depressing end to an exciting day of Bobby V talks..
a lot of people are putting thier rosters up…well here is mine.
Reyes
Beltran
Manny
Delgado
Wright
Murphy (at 2nd)
Church/whoever they trade for (byrnes)
Schnieder/castro
Johan
CC
Pelfrey
Maine
Niese
Fuentes
cruz
d. oliver
parnell
smith
(lefty specialist…feliciano or ohman or someone like that)
Stokes
There is no way the mets can get both C.C. and Manny and Fuentes. Manny is not going to be a Met and C.C. most likely won’t be. The Mets need to get a second basemen, a #2 or #3 pitcher, and K-Rod or Fuentes.
And as a #2 or 3 pitcher I don’t mean C.C. They need to try and get Burnett or Lowe
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Mets chase after Pat Burrell. I read it on MLBTraderumors that they were considering it. However, I think we will land K-Rod instead of Fuentes (because he is younger and brings more excitement), along with Burnett as well. No CC, because the Yanks are going to throw a ridiculous amount of money his way and Omar won’t top it.
if manny batted behind beltran, carlos would give us:
.300-42-110 and 186 runs scored… ELESTAQUI!!!
hahahahhaa
im not good with #’s so does anyone know how much money is coming off the books this year? kinda want to find out, realistic ideas for this winter
I’m not that good with numbers either, but here are some 2008 salaries worth noting:
Pedro- $11.8 M
Alou-$7.5 M
Hernandez- $7 M
Ollie- $6.5 M (may re-sign, though highly unlikely)
Anderson- $1.05 M
Easley-950 K
If we could get someone to take Castillo’s contract, that’s another $6.25 M as well.
FIRE OMAR… FIRE JERRY
It’s okay…say it with me: wooo-sahhh.
Hows this look
Reyes
Byrnes/Church
Beltran
Wright
Texiera
Murphy
Blake
Schneider
Santana
Pelfrey
Maine
Garland
Garcia
Ayala
Smith
Schoenweis
Ohman
Cruz
Stokes
Fuentes
Please tell me that’s not Freddy Garcia
Besides, that’s 4 RHP and 1 LHP in the rotation. I think Omar wants at least 2 LHP, especially with guys like Howard and Utley in our division. I think Niese will get his shot in 2009.
Just thought I’d pop in to see what the mets faithful have to talk about nowadays…….
Let’s Go Phils!!
How the Phillies finally decided to earn the division this year, rather than having it handed to them on a silver platter. Don’t get used to it.
think they earned it last year winning the majority of their last 17 games but if it makes you feel better…..your boys omar and co better get cracking on achieving that winning formula again
in all seriousness, don’t you think it was a little ridiculous to resign omar for that long considering they’ve missed the playoffs 2 straight years with that enormous payroll? i can see a 1-2 year extension or something along those lines
Agreed on the Omar extension. I think you will find that most fans would have been ok with a 1-2 year extension. However, as for them “earning” it last year, I think being backseat for the biggest choke ever is more lucky than anything. Not taking anything away because you guys had our number last year, but you have to admit that if the Mets didn’t choke as bad as they did, the Phils wouldn’t have made it to the playoffs.
Agreed on that….I just like to look at it the other way since it had been such a long time since their last playoff appearance before last season
Well, things are looking pretty good for you guys this year. Up 2-0, Cubs down 2-0. Like I said though, don’t get used to it ;)
cholly will be fired in the middle of the season i guarentee it
wow the philths won 2 playoff games – maybe i should start believeing in god – or better yet – the devil :P
dont worry your phills will break your heart!
dodgers will sweep em i predict manny wil duplicate reggie’s 3 hr game at the band box
you guys love making fun of citizens bank….the phils hit homers in most parks so it’s not just because they play there…..kinda hoping citi field has some of those aspects so you guys can quit putting it down…..it’s a beautiful park and the games are extremely exciting
uhh dudeall teams hit homers in all parks its just that your stadium is so teeny tiny that rey ordonez pop ups will become homers or ground rule doules :)
*doubles
It is a small stadium. But what I don’t understand is why pitchers keep pitching Howard away? That’s when he’s dangerous. He loves going the other way with power, and it seems to me like he struggles with fastballs up and in. Then again, I don’t watch him every day so I may be way off in my judgement.
and nyc citi will have almost the same dimensions as shea – sorry to burst yer bubble
Agreed on your point about Howard but he is also very easily struck out by the down and away pitches as well since he stands so far off the plate….low and breaking away and high and inside if you want to K him
maybe he should lean in on a pitch and get on base cheaply like chase and his many hbp’s
hahaha exactly why i put the stands so far away from the plate part in there…..you guys love how close utley stands to the plate
Right, but of course those two pitches compliment each other. Too often, I’ve seen guys throw dick-city fast balls on the outer half of the plate. And yes, it was almost always someone in the Mets bullpen.
yeah i love it when players break the rules and the umps look the other way – i feel the same way with the use of too much body armor phillies phan
I suppose you can count me among the minority of people here who would have rather seen Ken Oberkfell get his long overdue shot at the job. He’s been successful at every level in our system and had nothing left to prove. I see Manuel staying on as just an extension of the Willie Randolph era. We should have just cut ties with that a long time ago.
cleon i’d like to see kenny o get his shot also – but you have to admit that what jerry was able to do was not easy under the circumstances and this is;nt a small sample unlike sveum with the brew crew
You can count me in too.
hey i;m happy with jerry getting an extension
Me too. But I think it’s safe to say that he will have a very short leash. Many people think that it’s 2009 or bust for him, since he has too many ties to the previous disappointments.
not as short as willies i believe
I don’t know. You may be right, but I think having two disappointing seasons in a row puts added tension between a manager, gm, and ownership. Sh!t rolls down hill, unfortunately. I hope that we don’t have to worry about it, though.
godsend they are still paying howe and willie i don’t think they wanna add jerry to the ny mets welfare role :P
Good point.
i think we are still paying saberhagen and bobby bo come to think of it lol
Do you bring Warthen back?
i hope so if not him thwn i’d like to see leo (the human rocking horse) mazzone or roger mcdowwel – it’s been a long time since ive seen a good hotfoot lol
Yes. You saw the results with Pelfrey, Ollie, and Santana in the second half. He’s got a gift, and he’s doesn’t over-complicate things like Peterson did. He, like Jerry, at least deserves another chance. It will also be interesting to see what he can do with some actual ARMS in the bullpen.
i don’t think he had enough time with the bull pen arms he was there for what less than 3 months? hell he had no time to aclimate himself with those scrubs
6 months with Jesus Christ, himself, wouldn’t help those guys.
lets not get into religion here gosend im a atheist lol i don’t wanna get into any theological arguments lol
No, I would not bring Warthen back. Please never again assume a pitching coach had anything to do with Johan Santana at this stage of this career.
HE ALWAYS DOMINATES the 2nd half.
Pelfrey was finding himself before Peterson got jacked.
Oliver Perez was the same enigma that ran out of gas under Warthen as Peterson in 2007.
Rick Waits and hopefully Obie will be Jerry’s bench coach.
I can’t believe I am typing this, but I want to see HoJo back.
they need new first and third base coaches, prefer a non Magoo at third.
Manuel is fine. Bobby V was a red herring. Fix the gd bullpen
agreed bobby v woulda been fired faster than cancel could eat a chimichanga
Castro could eat one faster.
prince feilder could save mexicos economy
by the way guy’s do you think that willie is savoring the end of this season like he thought he was gonna savor the bubbly last year?? i would hope he was as devastated as us since he says he has always been a die harrd mets fan but i guess im a pessamist about that
How much do we really think the Mets are spending this year?
There is $94.5 million committed to contracted players for next year. There are another 6 players arbitration eligible that should total another $8 million or so (perhaps more) which takes the team to $102.5 million. Plus, there are always more players who will make their tendered amount which will likely add up to another 4 or 5 million. Suddenly you’re already approaching $110.
The Mets’ opening day payroll was about $138 million this season. At least one article (I’ll look for it) suggested there was little chance the Mets would increase its payroll without some playoff revenue. So how many free agents are the Mets really going to fit into about $30 million?
Manny and CC and Fuentes? Get real. We’ve got HUGE holes and we don’t have an unlimited bankroll.
correct……
i’m hoping about 155 mil to 175 mill
they are going to go around 12 million shy of the luxury tax……which was 155 mil this year.
So let’s say it’s $155 million (I think that’s generous). That means they’ve got $45 million to spend on free agents. You have to sign at least one starter (Perez or someone to replace him), an OF (unless you go with the rookie platoon and Church and Tatis, ouch) and a remade bullpen including a shutdown closer. All this keeps Luis Castillo at 2nd unless some idiot will take him off our hands.
K-Rod will be at least $15 million a year.
CC Sabathia will be at least $25 million a year.
Fuentes will be at least $10 million a year.
Manny will be at least $15 million a year.
Guess what? That’s $60 million. And signing 4 big names doesn’t fill out the roster.
This team has to start getting smart. Not handing out blank checks.
look we have to believe omar still has the power to persuade freddie and paris to open up the petty cash till to sign a big name or decent name f,as or you never know what a trade might yield for us – if i remember right we bitched and moaned when we traded walt terrel for hojo we cried when we go bobby ojeda tim tuefel also and if i remember correctly we cursed omar when we traded for nady also – u see if we make a trade for an under the radar player we might step in dog cocky – and find a diamond in the turd
bullpen you are so right on….plus 2 type A free agents is the limit. I’m also hearing Fuentes may stay with the Rox. I think we should re-sign Ollie, sign Derek Lowe, and then either sign KRod, or move Maine to the closer and sign another type B pitcher.
agreed
There won’t be a CC under the xmas tree. 25MM for one guy isnt’ going to do it, especially when the Yankees will be throwing the entire YES network at him.
Need a closer for sure, but too many games were blown this year before a closer was ever needed. Maybe Krod, Burrell, and find somebody to take Castillo’s contract for their own mistake that we might be able to rehab
btw scott kazmir is very overrated. not saying i wouldnt want him, but he’s thrown 55 pitches in 2 innings and given up 2 runs already. He is really a 5 inning pitcher with a lot of strikeouts. He couldn’t hold Johan’s jock.
No matter what he did this year, and even if he never pitches another season, it will be a bad trade.
You should rate trades on how many good seasons you get out of a player vs. how many you gave up, as well as the relative quality of those season. Kazmir already has V. Zambrano beat.
Imagine if we still had Kazmir to go along with Johan?
Nice thought.
The thing about if we still had Kazmir is you never know what would have happened to team in terms of trades and signings after ‘04. Who knows if we have some the guys we have today and who knows if we would be any better or any worse as a team.
If I had the power to do it over, I would. I’ll take those chances.
Smart man-agement would know enough to hoard good pitching whenever you can. That’s how the Rays got to where they are. Not by signing aging sluggers and crossing your fingers on the bullpen.
is it true if we didn’t trade kazmir al leiter threatened to never speak again lol
Meant to say:
“If I had the power to do it over, I wouldn’t.”
we wouldnt have johan if we had kazmir, my guess would be. but hey definitely the trade STINKS, but he is not as good as people think. It hurts, but not as much knowing he is not this super ace.
That is an as-sumption you can’t make.
If we had kept Kazmir, there is no reason why they couldn’t also have Johan.
And it doesn’t matter whether he is overrated or not (which is a subjective as-sessment). The point is, he is one of the better young lefties in all of baseball. He would be an as-set to any team.
u can’t say that i mean if we did;t trade kaz duquette might still be gm which means no beltran no wagner no maine ollie or johan cuz omar wasn’t here to right the ship
You can’t say that if Kazmir hadn’t been traded that Omar wouldn’t have eventually replaced JD anyway. Remember, the Wilpons had been making overtures to Omar well before the Kazmir trade. So Wagner and Santana would have been possibilities as well as other players that Omar has not gotten but might have helped.
Also, you can’t as-sume that had Omar not been hired that the Wilpons wouldn’t have made an even better choice for GM.
hey we will never know but i think the wilpons liked being status quo – the trade for zambrano pushed us fans over the edge just like when we made ourselves vocal about wanting piazza and neither phillips nor wilpon not wanting him nelson ( our true owner) wanted mike and forced the trade
this trade will always go hand in hand with ryan for fregosi amos otis for joe foy and tom seaver for zachary henderson norman and flynn
scott kazmir should never ever be mentioned in the same light as nolan ryan and tom seaver. the trade was terrrrrribly awful, but he is NOT on that level!
ok metsy ill give you this he might not be as great or dominant as seaver (im a seaver fan btw) but he is the face of that franchise nd he has almost single handedly given the rays credibility
Dude, he is 24.
It still is an awful trade, I am just sick of the constant jabs at the Mets for a trade that happened 4 years ago with EVERY SINGLE mention of his name by the press.
def an awful trade. but he is definitely not the next seaver, nolan ryan, or doc gooden either.
He’s 24, younger than Pelfrey for what it’s worth, starting his first post-season game.
there are cheaper alternatives to k-rod and fuentes such as soiria if u can get him solomon torres possibly and thet reliever the pirates have – no not marte – i know he’s with the yankmees also what about valverde with the stro”s he was dominant at one point?
why would the royals trade soria? and who do u waant to trade for him? and what is his track record, i know he had an amzing year, but can you count on him to do it in NYC for 5 years?
heilmann val pascucci mrs met and the woman from 86 that twirled her arms between pitches from behind home plate :) by the way what about bautista from baltimore ?? he’s a dominant reliever – against the yanks anyway lol
Poor Kazmir not looking so hot thus far– given up 2 runs and thrown 56 pitches in 2 innings. Well, this might reduce the number of jabs at the Mets in press writes ups for a trade that happened 4 years ago from 500 to 200 this week.
exactly…..who would u rather, kazmir or johan?
both:P
I think we should deal reyes and sign orlando cabrera who always wins. We could get tons back for reyes.
Dumb. dumb, dumb
Cabrera is terrible and his teammates and manager hate him.
Reyes is a stud who shouldn’t be traded ever.
for who? they will never trade jose, sorry
There is no way you trade the most electrifying young studs in baseball. He does have a high value, but he, like Wright, is a cornerstone in this franchise and he isn’t costing us jack right now. You build around those guys, not trade them like Phillips and Duquette.
Orlando Caberera is A.)not very good B.) 33 C.)just happened to play on winning teams.
……..Wait that was a joke post.
somewhere chris russo is smiling
you have the most pointless posts..sorry..
guys this troll johan the ace is actually feyer mets man age ment in disquise
Dam it.. I dont care what you guys say. But Manuel was part of that collapse. I would have not resign him…..
i agree……its not change for change’s sake. it change b/c we failed 3 years in a row, in embara-sing fashion.
and other than bobby v – i don’t think the wilpons want to deal with him ever again davey johnson?? acta perlazzo?? tell me who
Ken Oberkfall.
dumb comment. so was the entire team, might as well scrap them and start over right?
I hear you. I don’t give that much credit to Manuel for the Mets play after Willie was fired. The Mets played better (or up to their potential) after Willie was fired NOT because Manuel is such a superior manager, it was WAS because he was not Willie and because the press stopped asking the players “if you lose tonight, do you think your manager will be fired?”
Manuel was still a big part of two successive collapses. The second of which he presided over.
It was time to make a big move and, once again, the Mets dropped the ball.
p.s. Great game pitched by Scott Kazmir tonight, huh?
Where is Mets Weekly? Or did Matt Cerrone post erroneous info?
I have SNY on now and there is Pro Football Weekly on. ;-(
i like jocelyn peirces azzets :P
ill tell u one thing if we did fire omar id love to have either joe macellvane gerry hunsiker or gene micheal as his replacement
I think the Rays are going to sweep the White Sox.
They are like the ‘69 Mets.
i’m hoping u r right – it will be like heaven to rub that into the yankee faithfuls faces lol
MANNY WOULD BE A GOOD FIT FOR THIS TEAM. i think that if manny was in the lineup batting third, it would take a lot of pressure of dwright…think of the first 5 batters as
reyes, beltran, manny, delgado, wright….those are five all stars all in a row…and manny is very clutch, has postseason experience (and is unbelievable), and he is a winner….some people may not like his attitude but i think his attitude would be very good for this team..we have too many softies in wright, reyes, and beltran…..dont tell me that they are not soft because they are….beltran is very good but is very much of a baby.
as much as i would like manny i don’t think he wants to come back east secondly if you do get him u might retard fmarts progress and he could be lost in the shuffle
i guess u r right about fmart but they could always put him in right and platoon him with church but for some reason i dont think he will play a big role on this team this year.
Manuel at 2 years is a good move. Let’s see what he can do over a full season. Of course, player personnel moves are expected.
Gottago:Heilman, Schoenweiss, Ayala, Castillo
We need to move away from signing and relying 35+ old veterans.
Glavine, Pedro, Duque, Wagner, Alou, Castillo……
Do we not learn about buying old players past their primes?
there is a big difference between pitchers and batter…those are all pitchers except for alou and castillo…alou is over 40 and can still hit but is injured…castillo was fine his first year with the mets but now has bad knees and never really came back from his injury.
mo vaughn, robbie alomar, delgado in all of ‘07……lots of hitters too. you dont hand out 60 million dollar contracts to players who are DH’s in their late 30’s, sorry. It is completely the last thing the Mets should be trying to do.
typical kazmir night: 2 runs over 5 innings, 4 SO, 8 hits…..very very nice. i’ve seen john maine and ollie perez do that a ton of times. overrated.
clueless….Maine and Perez have NOTHING on Kazmir. Plus Kazmir is several years younger.
He’s younger than Pelfrey and starting his first post season game ever. Some fans are ridiculous.
he’s 10 days younger than pelfrey, and has a lot more experience than pelf. but he is injury prone, and with the exception of pelf’s april, pelf has a better era!
pelf pitches to contact, so his SO and whip are not as impressive, but in over FIFTY more innings pitched, pelf has given up 6 less walks.
pelf has gone 7 innings or more 14 times, kazmir 5 times. pelf went 8 innings or more 4 tmes, kazmir did it once. pelf 2 CG, kazmir none.
so though kazmir had a slightly lower ERA (0.22 diff) and WHIP (.09 diff), pelf had more wins, better control, a better era since may, and a ton more deep into games outings.
You must be joking comparing their ERAs. They pitching in different leagues.
ERA +
Kazmir — 125
Pelfrey — 111
So, Kazmir has Pelfrey beat on that front.
And regardless of who is better, they are both VERY GOOD.
The Mets could have had a rotation of Pelfrey, Kazmir and Johan this year if not for the dumb trade back in 04.
As for your comparison of Kazmir to Maine and Ollie, that is also ridiculous. Sure, Kazmir this year has tended to pitch a lot like Maine … but he’s had 4 consecutive years of sub-3.80 ERAs. Maine and Ollie aren’t even close, especially when you consider the leagues again.
all i’m saying is to stop crying over Kazmir. You win some and you lose some. Think of how we won with Ollie and Maine, who we got for NOTHING. Would I love to have Kazmir back yes. Would I lament losing him like Ryan, Seaver, Doc, the Dodgers with Pedro, the Cubs with Maddux, NO. He is not that good. I say he is overrated b/c people make it seem like he is some world beater. He’s not, hes a number 2 pitcher playing on the least pressure team in baseball.
No, I won’t stop crying about Kazmir. It’s as much crying about the ignorance of the Wilpons and the FO as it is about the loss of a talented pitcher.
And we didn’t get Ollie for nothing. We gave up Nady.
I don’t see anyone overrating him either. I think it’s in our head. You are Fatcessa II.
Kazmir is their Ace. Plus it is not crazy to think Kazmir can be one of the all-time greats as long as he can stay healthy. I haven’t posted anything complaining about losing Kazmir, but he’s no slouch as your are trying to make him sound.
…your head.
LOLOL the idea that people think Kazmir is going to be an all time great is LAUGHABLE. If you haven’t noticed, he is one of those pitchers who comes on like a storm, but soon guys learn how to beat him. He is NOT THAT SPECIAL. And please stop crying b/c he is not a Met and won’t be one ever again. We got Ollie as a throw in. John Lannan is the Nats “ace” . Nick Blackburn is the twins “ace”. Scott Kazmir is not that great. He is very very good, but not some unique pitcher who is once in a generation. That guy is with the mets now, and he wears #57.
LOLOL … who is calling him “great”?
Who is calling him “unique” or a “once in a generation” pitcher?
LOL, I don’t see anyone doing that.
Why do you always make things up? Sorry if I’m getting on you, but you have a lot of Fatcessa in you.
I mean the other day you say Byrnes has better clutch stats that any Met and he doesn’t.
Can you stick to the facts?
What about his stats/age so far says he can’t? 47 wins and close to 800Ks before the age of 25. Never above a 3.77era in 4 seasons in a difficult division. Top10 in Ks 3 of 1st 4 years. Get a clue!
go look at what doc did when he came into the league then come back to me
yea, because they are the same player……doc would have been an alltime great if he stayed off the drugs.
doc was immensely better than kazmir in the same time served in the majors. it’s not even close.
no kidding, again whats your point? Difference is Doc sniffed the coke and his career went poop. If Kazmir stays healthy and keeps doing what he’s doing, he will be light yrs ahead of Doc’s #s.
you have no idea how he will do, but how he is right now is a very good pitcher, nothing more.
He’s a very good pitcher who’s been better so far than Maine and Ollie in his career.
Very good pitchers who are cheap and you control for 6 years are very hard to find.
I do think Kazmir is overrated but e is better than Ollie and Maine and still growing.
Good contract, good move.
Please. Manuel is not a bright manager. He just happened not to be Willie. Once Willie was gone, things lightened up. But Jerry’s in-game X and O decisions were not stellar by any stretch of the imagination.
But, hey, maybe it’s all about perception – like Sarah Palin last night.
You betchya!
It’s not so much what moves Jerry made, since the roster was severely flawed and was very limited. It’s more Jerry’s ability to connect to the players and have the players respect him(which in turn made players play better; like they need an incentive), something Willie could never do.
Manuel deserves this, he did a good job, now omar lets make some more moves like this..Get rid of Castillo, heilman, and sign & trade Delgado, his value will never be higher.
I saw this comment from a fan on fox sports
Great Moves By Minaya:
1) June 7, 2005: Selected Mike Pelfrey with the 9th overall pick in the amateur free agent draft
2) November 18, 2005: Traded outfielder Mike Cameron to the San Diego Padres for outfielder Xavier Nady
3) November 24, 2005: Traded first baseman Mike Jacobs and pitchers Yusmeiro Petit and Grant Psomas to the Florida Marlins for Carlos Delgado and cash.
4) December 5: 2005: Traded minor leaguers Gaby Hernandez and Dante Brinkley to the Florida Marlins for catcher Paul Lo Duca
5) January 4, 2006: Traded pitchers Jae Weong Seo and Tim Hamulack to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Duaner Sanchez and Steve Schmoll
6) January 22, 2006: Traded pitcher Kris Benson to the Baltimore Orioles for pitchers Jorge Julio and John Maine
7) May 24, 2006: Traded pitcher Jorge Julio to the Arizona Diamondbacks for pitcher Orlando Hernandez
8) July 31, 2006: Traded outfielder for Xavier Nady to the Pittsburgh Pirates for pitchers Roberto Hernandez and Oliver Perez
9) August 22, 2006: Traded Evan MacLane to the Arizona Diamondbacks for outfielder Shawn Green and cash.
10) July 30, 2007: Traded minor leaguers Drew Butera and Dustin Martin to the Minnesota Twins for Luis Castillo
11) January 29, 2008: Traded outfielder Carlos Gomez, pitchers Philip Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra to the Minnesota Twins for pitcher Johan Santana.
Questionable Moves:
1) November 15, 2006: Traded pitchers Heath Bell and Royce Ring to the San Diego Padres in exchange for Jon Adkins and Ben Johnson
2) November 20, 2006: Traded pitchers Henry Owens and Matt Lindstrom to the Florida Marlins for Adam Bostick and Jason Vargas
3) December 6, 2006: Traded pitcher Brian Bannister to the Kansas City Royals for pitcher Ambiorix Burgos
4) November 30, 2007: Traded outfielder Lastings Milledge to the Washington Nationals for outfielder Ryan Church and catcher Brian Schneider
11 to 4, in terms of good moves vs bad moves.
id rather have drew butera and dustin martin back
LOL … I like how that list includes Pelfrey but none of his bad draft selections … how it omits terrible contracts given out to Mota, Show and Castillo … and how it omits his letting bullpen guys like Oliver and Bradford go … and leaves off the Alou option and 2-year contract to El Duque.
It also omits moves like having Lima, Park, Lawrence, and ishii start so many games for Mets.
Very distorted biased list IMO.
Do tell, what are his “bad draft selections”??? Mulvey, who we moved in the Santana trade? Or is it Kunz, Davis, Holt, and Havens, who haven’t had time to show what they are yet?
Picking up Alou’s option was a no-brainer, even though he was injured a lot, the man still hit .341 with power the year before.
And wow, your going to count Lima and Park, spot starters, which EVERY team uses??
Then you should include moves like Endy, Tatis, Valentin, Roberto, Gotay, getting Bradford, getting Mota, etc.
If that list is biased, then so are you.
Yes, Pelfrey was a good choice and Omar deserves credit for him,, but he was a #9 selection in a year with good prospects. . What about prospects from the later rounds and the international free agents?
Where is Pena? And how could they leave Flores unprotected? Catchers who can hit are rare and Flores showed he could mash high A pitching.
Omar has had control of the farm system for 4 years, and while it isn’t as bad as some think, there hasn’t been a lot of ML-ready players produced who have helped the Mets.
As for Lima and Park, it wasn’t just those two. It was Lima, Park, Ishii, Gonzalez, and Lawrence. And while other clubs do use players like this, many such as the Braves and Red Sox are more likely to dip into their farm system and give prospects opportunities.
As for picking up Alou’s option, it wasn’t a no-brainer to everyone. IMO, it was a no-brainer to NOT count on a 41-year old as your starting day leftfielder.
Just as it was a no-brainer not to give someone as fragile and old as El Duque a 2-year contract ….
Or someone who fails steroids testing a 2-year contract.
Or a 3-year deal to a LOOGY with a baseball card full of bad numbers..
Even getting Mota in the first place was a mistake as he was nothing but a roided up cheat.
And if you include Endy, Tatis, Roberto etc than I can include Wise, and Sele, and Franco and Conine etc.
Ok, I am biased. I think Omar is a mediocre GM at best. Which is not good enough for NY. Not god enough to be given the responsibility of such a big payroll.
So I’m biased and so is the original post. Which means we cancel each other out. And what you’re left with is Omar is nothing special at all.
Imagine what the fortunes of this team would have been without those five days in November. Bell and Lindstrom would have looked like Goose and Sutter the last two years compared to what we had.
u gotta get a life dude
would anyone consider pedro martinez as a #5 starter next year for a very cheap 1 year contract… i kno everyone wants him out of new york but if he were to fail they could fall back on niese
As long as its very cheap. Perez isn’t coming back and Niese isn’t quite ready. Pedro would be my #5 until Niese was ready, then i would just have him spot start.
I really miss the enter sandman song being played at shea. that was one of the best parts of the game
o look its chad bradford pitching in the postseason
i think one of the big problems with the bullpen was that all the relievers could only get one side of the plate out….
smith – righties
feliciano – lefties
hielman – righties
shoew – lefties
hielman and schoew were supposed to be the guys who could get batters out from both sides of the plate
well this was a no brainer. I dont care what the final result was. Jerry had to manage under a terrible bullpen and inconsistent offense in the middle of the year and he still managed to have an amazing record managing the Mets.
by the way, SCREW FRANCESA AND HIS YANKEES. he doesnt know squat about baseball!
Holy crap! Talk about clutch pitching … prior to this October, Bradford had pitched 15.1 innings in the postseason over 17 games. He’s yet to give up a single run.
bradford and darren oliver leaving set this team back two years.
and they are both pitching in the playoffs, with great era’s and both have been super clutch (darren striking out Big Papi the other night was nasty)
This is embarrassing, bringing back yet another manager who collapsed in the previous season. A month or two ago, everyone was saying how there is no way you can bring back Manuel if he fails to make the playoffs…
I’m done
I guess the Mets were afraid to fire another black manager. Bobby V, where are you.
So they’re bringing back yet another manager who failed miserably late in the season. A month or two ago, everyone was saying how there is no way you can bring back Manuel if he fails to make the playoffs…and now all of a sudden everyone loves him? Am I missing something?
The only way this lousy team could have won me back was if they hired Bobby V. But I guess there was no way the Mets were going to fire another black manager, heaven forbid. Plus they wanted somebody who was REALLY CHEAP, and Manuel will work for peanuts- that works for Freddie! $ comes before winning, as always.
Yea, because Manuel didn’t have close to a .600 winning percentage with this messed up team or anything.
If Minaya was decently smart hed realize that Fans would actually be excited to watch the 09 season if we had Bobby V as a coach….but theres no way Minaya would let that happen
bobby V was never a real option.
tell me why not??
No way was wilpon going to bring him back and no way would Bobby want to work for him again. BobbyV and wilpons don’t get along at all. It was all media fodder to stir up the fans.
I don’t wanna hear about a .600 winning percentage, this team had a 4 game lead in the division on Sept. 10th, and a 2 game wild card lead with 7 games at home vs. teams with nothing to play for, even with the injuries and all the other problems. That’s a collapse, and Manuel has been involved with both of them now. Am I missing something though, why does everyone all of a sudden love Manuel when a few weeks ago they said there was no way he could come back if he didn’t make the playoffs?
agreed
This team was supposed to have a .600 winning percentage in the time Manuel was there, a monkey was supposed to be able to lead them to that- a competent manager would have MADE THE PLAYOFFS. In Vegas, the Mets were the pre-season favorite to win the NL pennant.
How do you figure? Willie had this team playing under .500 and there were MANY key injuries to starters and injuries to backups who were already filling in for starters.
Did that moron Aguayo, the 3rd base coach, get extended too? I’m sure Los Mets gave him a nice, long extension too. Horsesh*t. This organization rewards incompetence.
Im done
good.
No one cares if your “done”, moron
I know most people have enough sense to know trading the core wouldn’t be wise, but we do need to keep something in mind. Jose Reyes will be a FA after 2011 pending the Mets pick up the team option. 3 years isn’t all that long. It’s as long as Beltran’s under contract. In may not be this season, but at some point the Mets will have to decide if it’s worth giving Jose Reyes an extension at around 18-20MM per year for x amount of years. I personally think it’s worth it, but if they’re not willing to commit to that they can get a lot of prospects to build with in return.
random, but this Bay guy is pretty good. I’m not sure we had the prospects to pull it off but I still wish we had traded for this guy.
this wasn’t our year……..
I know it wasn’t our year, I’m just saying I think he’s a guy worth trading F-mart and possibly another prospect, even Niese, for. Although I’m not sure that would have gotten it done. He’s relatively young, I think he just turned 30 and under contract for another year or so isn’t he.
neise and fmart? nope.
A 29 year old left fielder who consistently posts a .900 OPS and 30 hrs isn’t worth a 19 year old left fielder who’s all projections at this point and at least 2 years away and a 21 year old pitcher who scouts are all over the place on, some think he’s a solid #2 others thing he’s a high end 4?
Yeah. I mean Bay would have been worth it. If we could have locked him up to an extension definitely. A lot of question marks loomed at the time if he could perform in a big city atmosphere. He sure has done it. The Red Sox got pretty ripped off if you think about it though… Manny + two team option years… Basically 2 1/2 years plus + Red Sox prospects for Bay. Bay is good, but he’s no Manny.
Maybe when Bay and Nady for that matter too become FA’s next season, the Mets will take a look.
Hey just curious, what did you all think of Ollie’s “playoff” game on Sunday w/ the Fish? How did he do would you say?
Ollies a sissy
Honestly, he didn’t do bad. He could have lasted longer, but Jerry had no other chance to pull the plug.
Oliver got no run support. Had the Mets just given him the 4+ runs they averaged all year, we would have been raving on how he did his good… He got through 5 scoreless innings. And started to lose it. On a 1-10 scale, it at least merited a 7 or 8…
He’ll do alright in Free Agency… I don’t know if he’ll be a Met or not next season. I don’t know if he’s worth 13MM a year for 4-5 years. I’ll remember him as a big game pitcher who was inconsistent at times. I’d be much happier getting Derek Lowe.
he pitched 5.1 innings of 2 run ball….same as kazmir tonight. does this mean they are equal, no, but the point is in a big spot they were equal. kaz is great, but overrated.
?
Omar can make this a huge offseason for the Mets (I, by the way, am all for Jerry) and he can truly make us forget all the way back to Carlos’ knees buckling in 2006. It appears we are going to keep Delgado which I am indifferent to. We could either sign C.C. or sign K-Rod. I would obviously prefer C.C. but I doubt that will happen. The Mets absolutely NEED number 99 to be their starting left fielder. Daniel Murphy should be the second baseman, and then we trade/sign all the bullpen arms we can get.
and who will we trade for these arms? do you like defense? cuz your team would be lacking in that area a LOT. Do you realize we aren’t allowed to get CC Krod and #99?
I’m sorry, did you not see the word OR between C.C. and K-Rod. We could trade Nick Evans, Luis Castillo, and some of our current bullpen arms. We would also be able to sign some bullpen arms due to the fact that Easley, Alou, Pedro and others are coming off the payroll. And how would our defense be any worse than the last months of last year. Schneider is a great catcher, Delgado surprised us all last year, Reyes and Wright both have the caliber to be gold glove winners (Wright of course is) Church and Beltran in center and right, respectively, will be able to make up for Manny. And how will Murphy be any worse than a gimpy Castillo at second?
Exactly… It wasn’t our year. It was obvious. Just look at the bullpen. Had we had a respectable bullpen, it could have been different. It wasn’t Billy Wagner going down. The Mets blew 19 saves before even getting to the 9th inning and Billy blew 7 of the Mets 11 ninth inning innings saves… so that just speaks for itself.
Trading F-Mart for a FA to be Manny Ramirez could have been the biggest mistake this team ever made. A guy who you may wind up getting outbidded for. Would have he really helped us get in? It’s possible. But we would have never even gotten through the Cubs who got wooped… Or worse, if we won the division… Would have we had a shot against the Dodgers?
I don’t get it with Joe Torre. How does he win? Does he pay other teams off? lol He’s not a brilliant manager. He does what he does and he sticks with it. A lot of Yankee fans thought he was a deadhead just like we thought that of Willie… no suprise he was on his coaching staff like 11 years. When you win, you will be celebrated though. We’re still very close… Close to winning a WS.
Who said anything about Manny Ramirez? I’m talking about Jason Bay. He’s not an FA to be and relatively young and would have helped next year and probably beyond.
nevermind i read your response above.
METSSSSSSSS
Manny loves LA and LA has money. And so do the Yankees. So I just don’t see how that’ll happen. I can be wrong, but the team just has a bunch of other needs to address. Although it’s likely we’ll get outbidded for C.C., it looks more practical for a couple reasons. One, he wants to play in the NL. He saw Johan make the transition from the AL to the NL in New York. If C.C. were with the Mets, he’d share the spotlight. His arm wouldn’t be getting burnt out like out in Milwaukee. Two, the Mets got money. And with that being said, the Brewers really don’t. Not for him. It’s pretty much a one time deal for them.
The Giants mushed what ever chance they had at him by wasting their decade’s post-Barry Bonds money on Zito, so X them out. It’ll come down to 5 or 6 teams. The Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox, Dodgers and Angels. They got to worry about Texeira and K-Rod too though.
The Mets had a decent amount come off the books last season. They used the majority of it on Johan – although it was part of the money that could have been used for Glavine had they re-signed him and never gotten Santana. Why can’t the same scenario be applied to signing C.C. in replace of Oliver if he wants to be here?
Likewise to the annual rate Ollie’s looking at, Glavine would have been on a 13MM gentlemen’s mutual option agreement. The Mets go out and get Johan who was got paid 13.5MM in 08′, but would eventually get an annual rate for 23MM for 6 seasons. If C.C. were to get 7yr/154MM, he’d get an annual rate of 22MM. So it’s a similar increase of 9-10MM. It’d be like saying would you rather sign C.C. or Ollie + Lohse? I’d probably rather have C.C. and go with Niese or Parnell in the 5 spot.
Wouldnt it be funny if Omar didnt make 1 single move the entire offseason…and we had the same roster starting opening day….id laugh
that would be kinda funny
I would lol
FIRE JERRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How funny would it be if the world series is RedSox vs Dodgers?
I’d pay to see that. I think Manny was quoted as saying he’d like nothing better than to face the Red Sox in thw WS.
Before Church, Maine, Feliciano, Heilman and Duaner who are all up for arbitration, the Mets number that’s been shed is 30 million.
That includes the pay hikes of Santana, Reyes, Wright and Chavez. This is including the 4MM less the Mets will have to pay Delgado next season because the Marlins covered it. It also include the FA salaries of Pedro, Alou, Perez, El Duque, J. Sosa, Wise, Easley, Tatis (400K minimum), 1/4 of Ayala’s ‘08 salary (425K). I didn’t bother including Rincon or Nixon/Armas Jr. who sat on the major league DL for most of the season earning the minimum.
The number becomes higher when you accumulate the decrease of 3.6MM in Schoenweis and 1.2MM in Heilman. And possibly the 0.85K in Sanchez. So the number can climb as high as 35 or 36 million. It can even jump higher if they trade Castillo, but because they’d eat a lot of it or acquire a contract like Byrnes there wouldn’t be much alleviation there. There’d be no reason why anyone would believe they wouldn’t at least use the 30MM that they’ve cut in payroll. Depending on how much the Wilpon’s want to win will determine how much money Omar can use.
For some reason I was thinking they would have more than 30 million to play with. I’m really curious to see what Church, Maine and Heilman will get in arbitration. When you consider some of the ridiculous asking prices, 30 million doesn’t seem like that much.
I agree. The number probably will be higher than 30-35 MM. I didn’t think the Mets would be willing to raise their payroll like 10-15 million or possible even higher last season, but they made the exception for Santana. I think if it were the right name, the Wilpon’s would do it again. It’s not like the money wouldn’t come right back to them anyway.
In that example I showed with Fuentes/Lowe or Perez/D.Reyes+J.Cruz/Grudzielanek, if the Mets were willing to spend 9 or 10 million more they can replace Lowe/Perez with Sabathia. If they were willing to use 5-7MM more, they can get K-Rod over Fuentes.
Manny Ramirez and Orlando Hudson don’t exactly fit so neatley into those scenarios because they get paid so much more than a Grudzielanek type player. Ollie and Derek Lowe pretty much have the given rate of a solid 3 pitcher which is like 13MM. If they went to look for more of a 4 in a pitcher like Lohse, they’d still be using at least 10MM.
Hitting clutch wins, but pitching is the backbone to all winning teams. It may not be as exciting or commended to close out 7th, 8th and 9th innings the right way, but that in my opinion is even more clutch than getting the big hit. All of us learned that the hard way this season.
So with that being, if the Mets were to let’s say have 35MM come off the books – how do you use that?
C.C or Manny are in the neighborhood of 20-22MM. So than you only have 13-15 left? Maybe we can still use 10 of it on Fuentes. We’d only have 3-5MM left though with at least one void in LF or 2B, the 5 pitcher and two set up men. Unless the Wilpon’s are willing to hike the payroll by 10-15MM or Minaya irresponsible goes lopsided on what needs to improve again, it probably wouldn’t be possible to get C.C. or Manny.
K-Rod will probably be towards 15-17MM depending on the competition in the market. The Mets would still have an extra 5 or 6 million to use which would help allow us to sign two extra set up men like Juan Cruz and Dennys Reyes.
If 35 or 36MM is all we got to use though, this would be the most efficient way of addressing all needs in my opinion:
Sign Brian Fuentes 3yr/30MM ; Sign Derek Lowe 3yr/39MM or Oliver 4yr/52MM ; Sign Dennys Reyes & Juan Cruz each at 3yr/13.5MM ; Sign Mark Grudzielanek 1yr/4MM.
This can all be done with 36MM. Names like Ramirez, C.C., Hudson, Burnett and Sheets either provide Wilpon’s wallet to get thicker or a burden on our team.
The Marlins arent picking up anything on Delgado for 2009.
Look it up on Cots.
I’m happy with Jerry is getting a chance. I believe he earned it.
NOW GET AN EFFECTIVE BP. And at least one more decent starter – if not resigning Ollie.
And enough with Bobby V. They fired him once already. What are we – the Yankees and Billy Martin???
If they did hire Bobby V. back, just goes to show you it’s less about good managerial skills and more about the chemistry of the ball club as a whole and the manager. For example: look at Torre as manager of the Mets and manager of the Yankees. Way more success with the Yankees. Was he a smarter manager with the Yankees? I highly doubt it. It just was a better fit at the time.
Guess you can’t fire 2 black managers in 4 months.
Yeah, too bad. Then your Klan meeting would have nothing to celebrate!
It’s funny how some of the messages you’d think shouldn’t be here wind up getting here. And how normal posts magically disappear lol
I don’t know what point you were trying to make or if you were just joking around, but you do realize that Jerry Manuel wasn’t under contract? Joe Torre wasn’t fired from the Yankees, right? He wasn’t re-signed. Had the Mets not brought back Jerry, he would have not been fired. He was an interim manager. So if you’re going to make a post like that, at least say it the right way…
Just to even mention color is truly immature though. I mean Willie and Jerry are as opposite as can be. Willie is a deadhead who’s not liked by the media. Jerry handled the media and coached well.
lol…guys u realize people who make posts like this arent actually serious and are just trying to make a joke cuz they there will be like 6 messages followed by “your an a$$hole and racist and blah blah blah
Yeah you’re probably right.. lol Just boredom being on here can allow you to respond sometimes. Some people did it with the trolls on here too. Oh well… I just hope next October we’re talking about postseason ball and not this
I just wanted Bobby V back because he was the man…..
If you got a new manager, and traded delgado, and brought in O-Dawg and either Lowe or KRod, you would have a lot less media saying “ooooh are you choking again” every five minutes.
And what happen if the injury prone O-Dawg got hurt again? They may just deem him another Luis Castillo or Kaz Matsui (Mets era). Trading Delgado doesn’t make any sense unless the deal offered to the Mets can’t be refused. He hit 38 HR/115 RBI. He had a higher RBI total and higher batting average than in 2006. I don’t see how trading him would be wise. The Mets wouldn’t have had the ability to have a second collapse if Delgado had not hit like an MVP in the second half.
No matter what happens, the Mets will always have to deal with the media. So will the Knicks, Yankees and all NY teams. It’s just a part of the deal. They can say that we’re choking. Who cares? It’ll give the Mets more to prove. They have something to prove next season. And they’re not all that far away from a World Series title no matter how hard it is to believe. Just a few touches can really do it.
Agreed. Screw the media. It’s not like of the media/baseball analysts were any better at their predictions than your average fan was. In fact, I think many on this blog do a much better job of analysis then the ‘professionals’ do.
It’s NY. No matter what the Mets do they’ll always come under intense scrutiny. And if the media can’t stir the pot with a current story, they’ll just invent one.
The trade would come of the collapse not because he is not that good of a player.
Believe it or no Delgado is the voice in that team. I know this because of personal reasons. And i tell you thats got to change….
YES THANK YOU ‘85! It’s no beef with him, but it needs to change. Did you see his last interview? Complete business as usual. I want the team to go in a different direction. You don’t need 3 100+ RBI hitters to win a world series! You need situational hitting, great defense, and pitching!
Something that I think can really boost up confidence,control,consistancy and trade value is to put Aaron Heilmen in the #5 spot. Im not saying its permamenant, but from what I’ve seen from Aaron, when he gets into a groove, he can be an extremly effective pitcher. In June, when he pitched great, he got into a groove. That extra inning game when he pitched 3 innings. He got into a groove and trusted his stuff when it mattered and it turned out tremendous. The Astros in Billy Wagner’s young career thought he was alittle too erratic so sent him to start and get his stuff straightened out. Heilmen would be happier, we have a need. And I think the results would show. I understand all the reasons why you shouldn’t so save it. But until Neise is ready or somebody else knocks him out of the spot. I think it would help the mets and Aaron if he started #5. No matter if you want a new bullpen, I understand and fully agree. But as of now, his value is close to nothing b/c of the games he blew. But I can see it now. We trade him for nothing and when the pressures off, he’s phenominal on another team. “Great another mistake by Omar”. NOBODY ON THIS BLOG CAN SAY HE IS NOT A GOOD PITCHER. or potential to be, b/c we’ve all seen it. He seems plenty eagar to throw his slider and obviosly his fastball and change up, so tell me what you think. I just think his potential to get back to regular form it too great, while too little market value.
he is not a good pitcher. it’s not just mental. his sinker doesn’t sink: how many groundball outs do you see him get? rarely ever! from a sinker! his changeup stays belt high. his slider is predictable, and he can’t throw it for a strike. he is HATED in NY. he blew game 7 in ‘06. he stunk it up all year and much of last year. for HIS sake, get him off.
Thats why I say let him get his stuff worked out rather than be in such a tight pressure spot where one little mistake means off with your head from the media and a$$hole fans like you. And I said POTENTIAL to be. His value is too low to trade. But as of now u can’t give him a spot in the bullpen. Build up his value and confidence in low perssure spots. He can be too good to trade for nothing.
he is not a good pitcher
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, I really don’t care. I mean, is he the Manuel who coached in July and August, or what like i’m confused. I haven’t been this confused since deciding whether I should choose mild salsa, or spicy salsa. I decided to go with spicy because spicy salsa just has that extra addrenaline that keeps me going. The mets should have eaten spicy salsa before Sunday’s game. Spicy salsa with lemon gatorade. Or maybe vitamin water. But it depends on what type of vitamin water. I mean, some are good, but some are just awful. Like grape, I mean, don’t get me wrong, I love grapes as fruits, but I hate them as flavors. I even refuse to eat purple skittles, that is how afraid I am of the flavor of purple. Like, if I saw a purple car, I would never lick/eat it. I mean, if I saw a yellow car, it’s a whole new story. And that is why I don’t know whether to accept or reject the idea of Manuel coming back to the team.
Keep Jerry. Fire Omar.
BoSox: Jason Bay: 1 1/2 playoff games, 2HR, 5RBI
Dodgers: Manny Ramirez
Angels: Texiera
Omar Minaya………Luis Ayala………WHAT???
Fire Omar. Pay him any moneys owed. He is the worst GM is baseball. Ditch him now.
Ayala………….LOL
Omar is a terrible GM..
But..
D-Backs: Trade for Dunn, Eckstein, Rauch
Golfing at the moment
Astros: Trade for Wolf and Hawkins
Golfing
Yankees: Trade for Nady, Pudge, and Marte
Golfing.
As for the Red Sox… Bay’s a downgrade from Manny, and honestly, offense is NOT what we needed to upgrade at the deadline.
There was nothing the Yankees could have done, or traded for. They could have won their last 25 in a row and still missed the playoffs.
Jerry Manuel may be a good manager…but not for the Mets. The Mets core is too young for a manager like him. While guys like Wright and Reyes are the ones that need to be the leaders, they won’t always be able to step up and lead without guidance. I don’t see Manuel being that guy to give them the guidance they need. Bobby V is exactly that guy.
Whether or not it was a ploy to get Manuel to sign, it’s too bad for the Mets and us that Bobby V won’t be returning…as much as some of you think Bobby V was overrated.
I was reading something that the Yankees may be willing to trade Cano. Maybe they’re looking at Hudson. Not sure exactly. But he took some steps back. John Maine did too. What about a swap of the two? Maybe the Mets throw in a cast off reliever like Schoenweis too.
ummm never would you ever trade a guy like john maine for an overpaid, poor defensive, low OBP, lazy 2B like cano. This is officially the worst idea ever on metsblog i’m sorry. maine was HURT…..cano is one of the last people i’d want on this team. the LAST.
Okay.. Just an idea, that’s all lol I’m sure you’ve heard plenty worse. Your resentment towards Cano is probably somewhat glued to the uniform he’s wearing. I don’t blame you, because I kind of am too. Cano does have talent though and is young. Just like Maine. I know Maine was hurt, but who says these problems won’t linger on? He really needs to alter his mechanics and motion. I understand though that the Mets have a hole to fill their rotation with a 3 starter in like Perez or Lowe as it is, so it might not be the best idea. Maine’s still pretty cheap anyway…Than again, we have a void at 2B. Either way, I doubt these two teams are making such a trade.
he needs to be a closer. he has such similar stuff to papelbon, a rising 95 mph fastball that moves late. he is clutch.
This franchise is a joke.
Just imagine how much more nervous our team is gonna be next September as compared to this September
True. Who says we’ll be there? We won’t be there if we don’t get a good bullpen. We at least had Billy doing well in the first 2 months last season. Than he went down and so did the rest of the bullpen. If Ayala’s the closer, we will not make it to September. We’ll be eliminated 2 weeks before the season even ends and we’ll probably be lucky if we’re .500.
On the other hand, if we get a solid club and play well all season… Than we got a good shot. If we had a solid bullpen this season of guy’s we’re more than capable of getting now…. We would have probably been at 88-90 wins ”17 games” before the end of the season. There still will be that psychological thing planted in fans heads. The media will be talking. If Minaya gives us a tough club, we’ll get there…
I know a reporter on ESPN said something about a Giant saying the Mets would have won the division by 10 if Rowand were here because of the impact he has on the clubhouse. This is true. They could have gotten him if they pushed themselves too. I know Lo Duca played intense, but no one should put Paul even in the same conversation as him. He didn’t do much in ‘07 besides sit on the DL and not produce…
After tonight’s game, I’m convinced signing K-Rod would be a terrible idea…
i mean whats gonna be going through our team’s heads next year…
Anybody want to make fun of me now for suggesting Maine for closer, Lowe and re-sign Ollie?
tell Ollie to go but maine as a closer doesnt sound bad but get Lowe
Let me ask this…..if Johan is #1, Lowe #2, Pelf #3…..What better number 4 pitcher could there be than Ollie Perez? He only costs MONEY. No draft picks, no prospects, no impact on future talent. Just money. Name me a #4 pitcher on a real staff in baseball that would be better than Ollie.
Anyone who calls himself “Ollie” should not be allowed on this team
you think Lowe will come cheap?? He’ll get a lot of interest and will more than likely get overpaid.
This franchise IS a joke. Over the last week, they have done everything in their power to estrange me as a fan – and i’m sure i’m not the only one to feel this way. Resigning Manuel was the icing on this utterly nauseating cake. After following collapse 1.0 with the brilliant decision of keeping willie, they make sure to immediately lock up a guy who presided over this second consecutive meltdown (and who, mind you, has been pressing his incompetent @ss against that dugout bench throughout all this misery – beginning with the 06 NLCS – another historic choke-job IMO…). Way to make sure history doesnt repeat itself, geniuses! Way to begin shaking things up Omar, you sleazy sell-out d-bag! Now please, go give a 5 year 100-million dollars to a grossly over-hyped and over-used closer with badly declining velocity, who btw had as many BSs as Wagner this year, and who just pitched his team out of the playoffs. I can’t wait till he’s getting booed off city field in may 2010, with the Mets in 4th place, and everyone is talking about how we can ship his remaining 3 -years and Castillo’s remaining 2-years to the Nats for their playoff push and get Milledge and A-Hernandez in return… BOOOOOOOOOO
First off, the ‘06 NLCS wasn’t a “choke”. We had to start Maine, 5.00 ERA Trachsel, and 6.00 ERA Oliver Perez
Second, few will read your rant because you don’t know how to make coherent sentences, and it all just comes off as idiotic rambling.
agreed
I don’t blame many people to not have confidence in this team. If they were fielding this roster on opening day next season, I probably wouldn’t even watch. Not without intensity. I wouldn’t give myself false hope at winning. It’s obvious there are missing spots on this club. It can be fixed though.
The best thing all of us can do is wait and grow more patient. As the off-season moves on, we’ll see better things happening. At this point, all of us are shot. Our heads hurt. It’s just rubbing it in our faces to see the postseason going on, not to mention David Wright on a billboard in Manhattan. They’ll be another 5 months of non-Spring Training baseball and at least 3 1/2 to 4 of nothing… Pretty much the same exact thing we saw in late September the last two tears. This time though I’m not going to believe without being convinced we have a talented squad. And one player like Johan Santana which could be CC can’t prove to me the other’s are any better.
I feel bad for KRod. Really bad, he looked miserably sad. But this is a great thing for the Mets. The need to acquire Scott Downs from Tor, and let John Maine close. Spending 15 mil on a closer, and losing a draft pick, should be for ONE man, and he is in the bronx.
K-Rod has a higher WHIP than nathan, soria, mo, paps, billy, lidge, jenks, gonzalez, rauch, purcival, saito, broxton, fuentes…….
He also a worse K rate than nathan, mo, paps, billy, saito, fuentes, lidge.
I love watching him, it is so entertaining. When his pitches are on its electric. But he would cause us even more ulcers, hair closs, etc etc.
JOHN MAINE FOR CLOSER
THEN SIGN MANNY…btw what everyones forgetting is if we can put together a very good middle relief and setup we dont need to spend 15 mil on a risky 9th inning guy…those guys are often good one year then awful the next
you also don’t sign 35+ year olds to millions of dollars (see alou, mo vaugn, pedro, glavine, duque, wagner etc etc)……but yes, John Maine should close.
Mookie Wilson for President!
We always Have Proceed for that hair loss….
all this talk about K Rod dropping velocity on his fastball has me worried about a 4 or 5 year commitment.
How is it that any of you know what John Maine will be as a closer, you will likely be the first to crucify Minaya if that fails.
I think people put too much stock in the idea that being a closer requires some mystical power. It doesn’t. I requires 3 things:
1) the ability to warm up a little quicker than a starter, which can be learned (see smoltz, wood, izzy, etc)
2) having a sack, which John has proven time and again
3) and the most important by far, HAVING GOOD STUFF!……
For example, the reason Duaner failed, and Heilman, and Schow, has much less to do with #2 than it does #3.
i really dont mind manuel being the manager….they collapsed under willie, they collapsed under him but clearly this team enjoys playing under him….we were at 500 if not less when jerry showed up…..he turned this team around…the fact that they didnt make the playoffs wasnt because of him, it was becasue the bullpen blew wayyy too many games and we didnt get the big hit when we needed it. If omar doesnt make any big moves in the bullpen and the linuep then they can get the best manager in the world and would still not make it.
whether it signing krod or fuentes and getting jon rauch the mets need to do something about this bullpen.Too bad we cant a have a lefty /righty duo with 20 plus saves each ala orosco/mcdowell. IT would take pressure off one reliever being closer all the time.
wasn’t he already the 19th manager in team history? I think he still would have counted even if they had gone with someone else…
John Maine for closer is the dumbest thing they could do!
You have to go into the next season with a TRUE closer.
You can not experiment
you do realize that all the best closers of today came up as starters right? i guess the cubs were idiots for not getting that true closer and having to use that bum wood. or the braves really s–t the bed with that talentless John Smoltz. The true “experiment” would be signing K-Rod for 75 million and seeing if he can have the highest whip an ERA in the NL for closers. Or doing the “experiment” of how many wild breaking balls he can throw before he completely loses his fast ball. And Brian Fuentes? He isn’t even a “true closer” he is a setup man.
biggest problem with this idea is it can turn into another heilman situation
aka – he DOES NOT WANT TO BE IN THE BULLPEN. That is a fact, he has said it, he volunteered to go to the bullpen this year because he was desperate to play again and he would do anything to help the team. He will want to be a starter and for pete’s sake..he had a bad year (10 wins?) while injured! get off it
i don’t want Maine in there b/c he was bad this year. I want him there b/c I legitmately see him as our best option.
And again, Heilman is bad in the bullpen b/c HE IS NOT A GOOD PITCHER, not b/c he doesn’t want to be there.
Heilman is fine….i’m willing to bet he works out like Dempster or any other bullpen gone starter…
dempster was a starter for YEARS, then went to the pen b/c the cubs needed a closer….and if you were a fan pre-2006, you would have remembered him being a serious pain.
who are you? don’t even try to question my fanhood. Heilman is not a bad pitcher, he never wanted to be a reliever, he wanted to be a starter and he has nasty stuff…i’m sorry, not a cubs fan so i don’t know everything about them.
Don’t forget Mariano and Eckersley……
This is what the Mets need to do this offseason:
-Trade Castillo for Byrnes (not that Byrnes is a difference-maker, but he is an energy guy and getting rid of Castillo is always a plus).
- Re-sign Ollie.
- Sign Derek Lowe
- Get Daniel Murphy to play second base.
- Pick up Delgado’s option, see what you can get in a trade, otherwise just keep him.
- Trade for Matt Holliday (Church, Heilman, F-Mart, Evans, Delgado? for Holliday).
- Re-sign another reliable starter which nobody will go after.
- Release their foreign translator (I went to a Mets game once, and I asked Jae Wong Seo’s translator if I could get his ball, but he refused. Like, he treated me like trash. He just said, No. Like no, he did not even bother to explain. Translators aren’t as good as they used to come. I mean, let’s check the free agent market and see what we can get. I heard Daniel Soriano is a very good translator. I mean, there is the injury factor and the price is steep, but he is an investment. Or maybe we can trade for the Nationals translator, he’s got some good stuff.
i’m down with all of this, but Murph is a 1B to me. Then you can trade Delgado + Heilman to Toronto for Scott Downs, or to Tampa for Balfour. Then you sign O-Dog for 2B, and have the best defensive team in baseball. With Castillo and Delgado gone I guarantee Church would feel more welcome.
Johan
Lowe
Pelf
Ollie
Neise/FA/spot starter
Smith R, D-Oliver L and Long, Kunz and Parnell 7th, Downs 8th, Maine closer.
Jose
O-Dog
Beltran
David
Murph
Byrnes
Church
Castro
Pitcher
line drives, speeeeed, sick defense, hustle, grit, youth, live arms in the pen, a solid rotation with Ollie as a #4 pitcher.
you forgot about Maine
get Manny and Fuentes. K-Rod blew a huge one last night!
Fuentes is worse than K-Rod….a lot worse, and much older.
just sign Fuentes for like 2 years, he won”t be looking for as big a contract.
Jesus Flores at first.
Trade Reyes…start Flores at SS next april
GET. A. LIFE. YOU. STUPID. WORTHLESS. TROLL
12 year old
hey Willie; get a job, man
woah someone needs to go to pre-school again…very bad spelling dude.