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In his latest report for the New York Post, Brian Costello looks at Brewers LHP C.C. Sabathia’s plans for his impeding free agency.
According to Costello, Sabathia will not go on a ‘whirlwind free agency’ tour and plans to make his decision quickly to avoid a stressful offseason.
With the Mets and Yankees expected to be players for the 28-year-old pitcher’s services, Costello believes location may be a factor in Sabathia’s decision making, as his family is based on the West Coast. Sabathia as quoted by Costello:
“We’ll have to see what direction the teams are going and would my family be uncomfortable being on a whole other coast? We’ll have to see.”
Meanwhile, Jon Heyman of SI.com reports the Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, Giants and Brewers are among the teams interested in Sabathia’s services.
Multiple reports suggest Sabathia, who was a combined 17-10 with a 2.70 ERA in 35 starts for the Indians and Brewers, will seek a seven-year, $150 million this offseason.
…i’m mixed on the idea of the Mets going after sabathia…of course, a tandem of sabathia and Johan Santana would be amazing and easily the most dominant one-two punch in baseball, but sabathia’s work load this season worries me…
…plus, as cerrone stated last week, without a realiable bullpen to hold and save leads, sabathia’s addition may not change things…
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Two words: The bullpen.
Signing another ace is not going to help this team solve it’s No. 1 weakness: The bullpen.
Last time I checked, CC Sabathia is not a relief pitcher.
He doesn’t pitch out of —there are those words again— the bullpen.
Omar Minaya, who recently received a totally undeserved additional three guaranteed years on his contract should focus on what he has failed to upgrade since 2006.
I’ll give you a hint…Two words:
THE BULLPEN.
Yea, I completely agree with you about Omar’s undeserved 3-year extension. I think we should bring back Jim Duquette. He did such a great job.
That’s a pretty low standard and a false choice. Omar is not particularly good at much besides throwing money at free agents, so now we’ll almost certainly see Omar sign a declining K-Rod for a gazillion dollars.
Before Omar took over, when was the last time we signed a big name free agent (from another team)? Bobby Bonilla? Key is attracting talent and building a farm system. Our previous GMs had trouble doing both.
So acquiring Oliver Perez, John Maine, and Ryan Church doesn’t count? Drafting Pelfrey doesn’t count? Trading for Santana doesn’t count? Argue all you want that Ollie and Maine were throw-ins, you may be right in that we saw it that way. However, I’m sure Omar doesn’t say, OK give me Roberto Hernandez and whoever else you want to throw our way. That’s not how it works. Players that are labeled throw-ins are such from the the media and the fans’ perspective…hopefully not the GM’s perspective as well. If you are going to bash him for letting Jesus Flores go unprotected in the Rule V draft (which is a recurring theme on this blog), then you can’t take away credit for these “throw-in” trades.
Bottom line is Omar has done a fine job. If you think Cashman has been better over the past 3 years, you’re insane. The only way I would agree with ousting Omar is if F-Mart turns into a bust or isn’t traded for a top flight player. F-Mart will be a defining moment in Omar’s legacy with the Mets.
I don’t have a problem with Omar - he’s made mistakes but has come up big a few times too - but you’re going to define his legacy by Fernando Martinez? And you’re optimistic about that?
I hate to be the negative guy, but F-Mart is a B-grade prospect and doesn’t have the slightest chance of bringing back a top-flight player. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with a 20 year old who’s only a B with upside, and if we want to sell now he could probably get us a solid arm for the pen. But if you’ve convinced yourself that this is a universally desired super prospect and that Omar should be using him to nab Roy Halladay, you’re just going to be disappointed.
I don’t think F-Mart would nab Roy Halladay. I’m realistic about that one and think it would take D-Wright and a prospect.
However, Omar’s reluctance and refusal to deal Fernando Martinez has been pretty well documented. There is a reason he and Pelf weren’t included in that deal for Santana. The plan is one of two things. A) We need chips to trade just in case, or B) these guys are going to be studs for a long time.
what 09 means is simply that omar is guarding fmart for dear life. We could have gotten many pieces that may have made us a better team in the immediate future if we would have traded fmart. Omar believes highly in fmart and that will make or break him if fmart is a bust.
Ah, OK. That makes sense.
I think that the Red Sox winning the WS twice since we beat them in 1986 and the Phillies winning the NL East two years in a row and looking lik ethe favorite to get to the WS as the NL team, makes me sick. The METS should have been in the WS three times now, we beat the Cubs, Dodgers, Phillies and Brewers during the season :{ We need to do two things in the pen. we need a reliable SET-up man to pitch the 8th and a good closer for the 9th at the minimum. A new BP woul dbe nice, but, what’s out there to get? If we can get a long man, like. Heilman USED to be, then I think we will be fine. A catcher that can hit the ball as well as a second baseman and a left fielder would fill out my wish list as well as CC … LETS GO METS !!!
The thing to remember here is that building a good bullpen doesn’t mean spending money (K-Rod notwithstanding) The pen, more than any other aspect of a team is built on scouting…looking for guys who may thrive after being shifted from a starter (Gagne, Wagner) or a guy thats a headcase who just needs a change of scenery (Lidge). Going for CC won’t preclude building a good pen, but it would hamper efforts to shore up LF and 2B.
Like Snell from the Pirates
I think LF and 2B will be okay next season, depending on which position Murphy plays. I have more than enough confidence that he can be a .300 hitter with about 10-15 HR and 80 rbi. It’s not like he was only up there for a couple of weeks, he actually exceeded the amount of at-bats required to use your rookie status (meaning next year he’s technically a veteran). As for CC, I’m also on the fence. If we get him, then I’ll be happy because how can you not be happy with a CC-Santana tandem? However, I’d much rather sign K-Rod (along with one or two other arms) to solidify that bullpen. If we went out and landed both CC and Rodriguez, and nothing else, I think things may get interesting in the NL East again.
The problem is only partly the closer. This team has to get to the damn closer first.
Honestly, I like Smith in the 8th inning role, with Stokes and Ayala in the 6th and 7th where they belong.
I don’t think the problem is role. I think the problem is outs. The bullpen simply didn’t record enough of them, so moving people from here to there does little.
We need arms that get outs. We need pitchers who can pile up the Ks, too, because when a guy comes in with runners on base, we need doors to be shut.
Until Smith can get lefties out at a rate closer to that of righties, then no thanks in the 8th role. The team does need a shut down 8th inning guy as well. I really think they just need those two roles filled. Then, you can use the existing talent to fill other roles. You have 2 “cross-over” guys in the closer and 8th inning man, plus Stokes, Ayala, and Sanchez/Heilman. Those guys get the 6th/7th, with Smith/Feliciano serving as specialists. Given the construction of the pen, the 8th inning guy would ideally be a lefty.
Then you just give away games earlier. Feliciano, Heilman, Sanchez, Stokes… these guys all failed wherever they were put. This pen needs something like 4 new arms, not just a 9th and 8th inning guy.
another aspect of building the bullpen is through your own talent like kunz and parnell. Kunz especially better be in the bullpen this year, he closed for a full season in the minors after closing his rookie year in short A not to mention he was a closer on his college team. The guy knows how to pitch out of the bullpen time to put him out there.
i think he should fight it out with parnell for a last spot.
The truth is that US mets fans were totally on board to sign Johan even though he had thrown 4 straight 219+ inning seasons. This will be CC’s 3rd season over 200 innings (2002, 2007, 2008)
Sure he’s been overused lately, but with proper pitch counts and extra days off, he will revert back to usual activity over the next yr. Face it, nobody will drop 150mil on a guy and work him like the brewers did. Plus he’s never had a major injury
Fact remains that the guy has averaged 7 innings per start over the past 3 yrs. Anyone who says this doesn’t help the bullpen is crazy. 7.1 innings means his team only needs 5 outs.
Now give me sound reasons as to why we don’t want him, and i’ll listen. Too much money wrapped up in 2 LHP…No good in the postseason…Looks like a walrus…..etc etc
Why would Sabathia come to a cesspool like New York?
Well, K-Rod looked better last night than he did on Friday night. I think if it’s one or the other (because I fully expect the Mets to get one of these two), I would lean towards K-Rod. Changing leagues may help him regain his dominant form of his first few years.
Saw K-Rod pitch last night, a first in a long time, and although he pitched better than he previous performance (according the papers) his delivery is so violent I cant help being scared off from signing him. He looks like he’s one bad landing from major injury. He almost reminds me of the Bugs Bunny cartoon character Tazmanien Devil!!!!
Remember when people said Mark Prior had the “perfect delivery” and would never get hurt? How’d that work out? I know his delivery looks violent, but if he’s still pitching well and has his velocity, I wouldn’t be too worried about it.
exactly. none of us are pitching coaches. and after hearing an interview with rick peterson you cant even break down a delivery without incredibly slow moving video which i doubt any of us have access to with krod. so i dont care what gammons or olney or francessa think about his delivery bc i doubt any of those guys could throw a baseball to begin with. He hasnt had injury problems yet and he has had the same delivery for 5+ years.
Agreed Zeile. The people who are worried about K-Rod’s violent delivery are the same people who thought we should stay away from Vladimir Guerrero being fearful of back problems.
You also have to take into account how many one-run games the Angels are involved in. The reason why he broke the record was because he was pitching almost every night. The Mets WILL blow teams out, giving him time to rest in between. I think he was a little worn out this season. I agree, though, that we should definitley choose Rodriguez if given the choice between he and CC. We can trade for more arms in the bullpen since there are (amazingly) teams interested in guys like Heilman and Sanchez.
I understand why teams are interested. I’d be more reluctant to give up Sanchez. He is under contract thru 2010 I believe and just came off of major shoulder surgery. At the start of the year, his fastball was hitting 93-94. He obviously got worn out as the year went on.
Heilman is the guy I would look to move.
Maybe, but as I stated in another post, pitchers dont lose more than 1-2 mph in velocity because of fatigue. They lose their command and their “stuff”.
i think his shoulder was fatigued, not his lower body. i think that would make him lose a little off his fastball. i think he deserves another look next year.
I’m with you Mike.
Bullpen is #1.
But the Mets also need a starter and/or a hitter.
Since they can only sign two A free agents, one of those 3 spots needs to be either traded for or be Ollie Perez.
They should sign Derek Lowe and they should look at the 22 year old Japanese free agent. I believe his name is Tazawa.
how much would it cost to even talk to the guy?
He’s an unrestricted free agent. He’s choosing to skip his Japanese career to come to the MLB. No one has to post anything for him … that’s the beauty of the whole thing.
Look him up … there are lots of articles about this.
I’ve seen some videos of him. He has nasty stuff, throws hard too. But how will he handle NYC as a 22 year-old foreigner? How will he get along with guys in the clubhouse? He better grab a “Spanish for Dummies” book in the airport. I like the idea, but I think there are better options on the table. As for Lowe, I don’t think we should take a chance on him. He’s 35 years old and will most likely start to fade. We don’t need another Pedro.
As far as Tazawa … I’d be looking at him as a #5 starter … so all of those concerns should not be such a big deal. We’re not asking him to be an ace or a #2 starter. They should try to get him.
I’ll agree to disagree with you about Lowe. To me, he’s an upgrade on Ollie. A perfect replacement.
I think Lowe is an upgrade on Ollie as well. However, I’d be careful about being too righty heavy in the rotation. I like Ollie because he neutralizes those Philly bats. He also pitches well against the Braves. Important to beat teams you play 19 times a year.
Good point on being righty heavy. Besides Ollie (who I’m pretty sure isn’t coming back) … what other lefties are out there to get?
agreed 09 thats why i believe the mets should make a play for ollie and lowe. Getting both those guys would take care of the sp situation and still give us room to address the bullpen and possibly upgrade our bench
Tazawa is sort of a touchy subject for te league office. If any MLB team were to sign him, it would go against an agreement between the Nippon Baseball and MLB. Selig would not allow that.
That too. Great mention.
I’m sure MLB could smooth things over with them.
$$$$$$$$
Stranger things have happened.
I just don’t trust the quality of talent coming from Japan enough to pin hopes on a guy like that. Too many guys come over here and struggle.
Matsuzaka … Okajima … Kuroda … Saito …
They’ve been pretty good lately.
ive been weary of the mets signing japan talent after matsui……
Mikey:
I never said they were all bad. It’s just that there doesn’t seem to be a proper metric established to accurately predict whose skills will translate here and whose won’t.
That makes signing these guys a little bit of a shot in the dark.
For every Matsuzaka there is an Igawa. For every Okajima, there is a Fukodome.
Very true. But most of these guys are signed as big tickets to fill prominent roles. If this guy is a 5th starter … I don’t think it’s much of a risk.
Igawa was signed to be a 5th starter.
Igawa was a panic move in after the Sox got Matsuzaka.
I don’t see your point. You’re saying the Yankees knew Igawa was no good but in a panic to keep up with Boston signed him anyway hoping against hope?
They thought he’s be a #5. They wouldn’t have signed him otherwise.
Yup … that’s exactly what I’m saying. Brian Cashman has a history of making pitching decisions like that.
CC….get him.
He can help to relieve the BP. Plus, it’s not like we’d just stop IF we signed CC. The BP is an obvious hole that will be fixed regardless of us signing CC or not.
So, with that being said…sign CC now. DO IT!!!
And, Nick, after signing CC, what exactly is your plan for improving the bullpen?
If the current relievers blew seven games for Johan Santana, how many do you think they’d blow for CC? It’s completely unrealistic to expect CC to be able to go 8 innings or throw a complete game every time out.
And it’s not as if the Mets have limitless resources. They’re still on the hook for $10M next year to Billy Wagner, as insurance won’t cover that.
My plan for the BP would be the same pre CC as it would be post CC. How much money do you think we’re going to exhaust on the BP? How many pitchers do you think we’re going to sign?
I really don’t see why so many people are bent on it being either A) sign X or B) work on the BP. If you plan accordingly, it can easily be both.
People need to relax a bit and think logically for once.
well your plan leaves alot of stuff in the air unanswered…all seaver was doing was bringing to light the real reason the mets are not playing in the playoffs right now..bullpen. Our starters imo preformed better than anyone could have expected but you are going to tell me with 11 arms in that bullpen we couldnt get it done….Signing CC would be great on paper but with that investment you gotta look at 2 things
1) the abuse the brewers put on his arm
2) the money obligation to him in respect to the other things we have to do.
you talk as if trading and signing is a no brainer..seavers question is to put something definitive on the table addressing the bp as you did with the sp issue.
In a perfect world, we would be able to sign both CC and K-Rod. Actually, it really is possible, but highly unlikely since there are other issues to address as well. I think we need to land a closer. We can shore up the MR with a couple of arms via trade (Heilman, Sanchez, Scho), and bring back Smith, Stokes, Ayala, and Feliciano. Parnell and Kunz are also very likely to get a shot at a spot in the bullpen this spring also. If we get K-Rod, we go from there if CC is still available and affordable. $150 Mil for 7 years is very risky.
I agree with Nick. Why is everyone so quick to rail against the idea of getting CC, as if it precludes Minaya from still improving the bullpen. Personally, I would love to get CC. I wasn’t sure earlier in the year, but I’ve come around. And from what some baseball color guys have said, CC’s broad backside actually helps keep his arm from taking too much stress.
I think the trio of Santana, Pelfrey, and Sabathia would be deadly. Then add Maine to the mix- wow! Now I’m going to go one step furher. If someone thought the idea of getting Ollie and Lowe was good, why not spend the extra money and get CC and Lowe? Why not? It would be like an extra 7 mil, and given how much money this team would generate with the new ballpark, in addition to the SNY channel, and factoring all the money coming off the books, such as Pedro, Ollie, the 4 million less they will owe Delgado, etc, why not?
It doesn’t mean they still can’t improve the bullpen. I just don’t think they should get K-Rod is all, nor Fuentes at the price he’s asking. Instead, they should try to trade for their closer, and either trade or sign an 8th inning guy. The rest they can get from within. Perhaps they can trade for KC’s Joakim Soria. He looks like the next big deal closer. He did really well this year. I would even trade F-Mart straight up, or at least consider it. Or, how about a three for one. We give them Heilman, who could start for the Royals, along with Ayala (and save a lot of money by losing those two), and a prospect, don’t know who, but something that would work. And then we can try to trade for an 8th inning guy. I agree with whomever said we should get a lefty in that spot. I think it allows us to go with only one lefty specialist in addition to the lefty set up man, and it sort of kills two birds with one stone. Someone like Daren Oliver (don’t know if he’s a free agent or not).
Then the Mets can go with Kunz in the 7th inning, letting him develop in a less pressure type situation… Niese would be your standard long man/spot starter… Feliciano could still be your lefty specialist… and then you have Parnell and Stokes as your mix and match relievers- they can come in to help out a starter in the 6th, or give the 7th or 8th inning guys a day off, pitch in an extra inning game, mop up, whatever Manuel needs. I think all of these guys would succeed, even thrive, in their respective roles as long as Minaya got a closer and an 8th inning set up man. And it allows Niese and Parnell to warm up to the majors before being full time starters.
I just don’t think Minaya needs to spend a ton of money on K-Rod or Fuentes or the like. With a little money, but more likely using trading chips (Heilman, Ayala, Sanchez, F-Mart, Nick Evans, Castillo if the Mets eat up a chunk of his salary), I believe the Mets could solve those those two innings, and not only save the money they would have spent on K-Rod or someone else, but all the money they would have spent on those other guys I mentioned, and they can go and use that saved money on Satbathia and Lowe, and hec, even think seriously about Orlando Hudson if they so choose (which does make some sense, btw).
Get Sabathia. Get Lowe. And then use creative means to get guys like Soria and Oliver, or something along those lines- I just don’t know who’s available.
Seaver, your question is just an example of why I cant stand New York baseball fans. The fact that you expect another fan to come up with a “plan” for improving the bullpen (or the offense, or the team for that matter) is ridiculous. None of us know ANYTHING about front office matters. Furthermore we all know nothing about what it takes to get deals done, how other teams view the Mets prospects, who the Mets plan on trading, etc. It’s not tha tI think you expect a serious blueprint from NickA33, it’s that you probably think that, let’s say the Mets sign CC the nthey can’t go sign anyone for the bullpen. But how do you know? Because you a$sume that giving a huge contract away will not allow us to do more? But you don’t know enough to even asume that much. I really don’t understand fans sometimes. This is the New York Mets. With smart meanuevering this team can rebuild th ebullpen and make a big free agent splash. What about Fuentes, can they finally get him? Would that not enable us to go land Teixiera?
We as a collective group of fans need to look in the mirror and stop pretending we know about stuff we dont. It’s not healthy.
and what give you the authority to question seaver when you yourself dont work in the FO. This is a blog my friend..NOBODY in here is a GM.
“With smart meanuevering this team can rebuild th ebullpen and make a big free agent splash.”
-and thats precisly what we are doing here..guessing what those “smart meanuevering” would be.
except none of us here know what budget omar is working with. we get our information from third party sources who themselves are being used by agents and gms to dangle misinformation most of the time.
it’s fun to play gm but one person’s desire to obtain cc and k-rod is just as valid as someone who wants to get fuentes et al… neither side knows what’s really going on behind the scenes or what will eventually happen.
agreed and we are all playing gm..thats my point.
Why does it have to be either improve the rotation or bullpen?
Can’t a NY market team moving into a new stadium with $20M per year naming rights starting next year plus $35M coming off the books after a season where they nearly drew 4Million fans spend a bit more and get both done properly.
Look…everyone on this board would trade Oliver Perez for Sabathia. That is what I would be thinking about when making a play for CC. OP made 6.5M Sbathia will make what $19M per
The math to me on that is 12.5M more for switching those two guys.
Then, turn the attention to the pen in a big way. We really need 2 very reliable and very good pen pitchers. A top flight closer and a true 8th inning guy.
One will have to be done through trade I’d guess
But we can definitely do both.
A rotation of Santana, Pelfrey, CC, Maine and whoever else we use would be dominant.
Keeping Delgado puts off at least one more year the need to acquire a big time middle of the lineup guy.
Get a servicable RH outfield bat and go to war with Murphy at 2b
I love the idea of getting the best free agent pitcher and possibly redoing the pen with 2 very good backend of the pen guys
Ayala, Sanchez, Smith, Shoe, and Stokes to handle innings 5 6 and 7 are decent options. Just need that power close to the game for the 8th and 9th. Lock down guys if possible.
agree 100%. As for the fifth starter in your plans I would bring back Pedro. He would get more rest and if, its a big if, comes back healthy that would be one hell of a 5th starter.
And you idea of the bullpen, with the four front starter you listed the team shouldn’t need relief in the fifth or sixth, maybe the seventh. So I would keep Sanchez, Smith, Stokes and maybe Showe. Fill the rest of bullpen through cheaper FA or the minors, like Kuntz let him get his feet wet slowly.
And as for the closer ..the trade route might be the best and only way to go.
Sign CC & Big LF bat.
No more Pedro. The Mets cannot keep going with guys who are unavailable for a good chunk of the year, and you know that Pedro will absolutely not make 30+ starts. With regards to Murph, the guy has been rated as a substandard fielder throughout his minor league career. Before we annoint him the 2b, lets see how he does with it in the AFL. I believe up the middle defense to be critical, and this is why I’d like the team to go after Orlando Hudson, who can pick it at 2nd with the best of ‘em, and would fill in nicely as a #2 hitter. Murph cna play in left, if they don’t upgrade with a guy like Manny, and hit 6th.
thank you ravi…..if you have watched any of the angels, redsox, or rays games, youd see how a truly dominant defensive team basically adds an inning to your starter and lowers his era. I think they need to re-sign Ollie since he is a type A that they can get without having to give up one of their 2 type A spots.
I agree with getting O-Dog. However, I wouldn’t necessarily bat him 2nd. He’s not a patient hitter, plus, I think it would do a disservice to his ability to switch hit for this lineup. I think Murphy should stay as their #2 hitter (and be in LF), and Hudson would bat 7th after Church. That way, you have a switch hitter at the top, another in the middle, and a third toward the bottom of the lineup. Hudson would hit between Church and Schneider, so they wouldn’t have lefties back to back when a specialist came in.
O-Dog is a nice hitter, though he doesn’t walk too much, but he can hit for a solid .280 or better avg., get you the occasional homer, 12-15, get you around 8 triples, and 30 doubles, with nice numbers in the clutch. Since he doesn’t steal a lot of bases, he would fit well after Church, continuing rallies started by the guys above him, or starting new ones. I just think Murphy fits better up there than Hudson does.
While I like the idea of Murphy playing 2B so we can get a righty bat in LF, I just don’t see too many viable options out there, plus, with Delgado at first, I can’t imagine Murphy having anywhere near the range he would need to help Delgado out. I think the Mets might be much better off going with Murphy in LF and Hudson at second, and Hudson can make up for the fact that they didn’t get a righty bat. I know Hudson tends to miss about 20 games some years, but we have Easley who could slide right in there and give him a rest here and there.
I truly think that the Mets can afford to get all three guys: Sabathia, Lowe, AND Hudson, while refraining from spending much money on the bullpen as I think they can improve it mostly through trades.
If you signed CC your starting four would be:
Santana, CC, Pelfrey, Maine.
So, with that being said, you could afford to bring up a guy like Neise or someone from the Minors and develop them.
But Niese wouldn’t be able to go a full season. Sign Pedro (1 yr) to split the season with Niese.
I would rather split the time between Niese and Parnell if that were the case. I think Niese could get something like 18-20 starts, and Parnell the rest of them. Manuel could work it out so that either when he thinks it would be time to give Niese some time off, or when the Mets face off against righty dominant lineups, Parnell starts. I imagine Manuel could go month by month figuring out who would start which games in that fifth slot. This allows both pitchers to ease into starting without pitching too many innings their first year.
Having said that, I would still prefer the Mets went with another option for their 5th spot, and use Niese and Parnell in the bullpen.
Sanchez and Schoenweiss, should never be allowed to wear Mets uniforms again.
Especially Schoeneweis. He is utter garbage.
i agree on show…but why not sanchez…because he did not pitch like he did in 06 after coming back from 2 surgeries and 1 1/2 years of not pitching….
Show shouldn’t, I think Sanchez deserves another shot. The guy came off an entire season off he was clearly fatigued this year. I say give him another shot.
What I would do with the current Bullpen
Trade: Show and Heilman
Keep: Smith, Ayala, Sanchez, Stokes and Feliciano
Either sign Fuentes/K-Rod or trade for a closer. Either way no messing around we need a guy who is proven in the role not a guy who has been a set-up man and they thing can do a serviceable job.
Fuentes and K-Rod will want similar contracts, but Fuentes is 33 (the same age as Wags when we signed him). Make a bid for both, but push hard for K-Rod. As for Sanchez, I am really worried about his drop in velocity. When a pitcher gets tired, he doesn’t lose velocity, he loses his “Stuff” and command. His 8-10 mph drop in velocity means he can’t throw it by people anymore, so he has to try and paint. Im sorry, but he’s not able to make this change (which is why he fell behind almost every hitter in clutch situations). He’s not as adaptive as Pedro was. I feel sorry for the guy because the accident wasn’t even his fault, but I honestly think its time to cut ties and move on. There are potential buyers out there.
when he started this season he was in the low 90’s for the first few weeks. Since then he had the major drop in velocity. All I am saying is that his velocity was there. Maybe not all the way there but it was 90+ to start.
Keep in mind he reported to St. Lucie in January so he had thrown a lot more then any other reliever going into the season.
but also keep in mind he is coming off 2 surgeries and has not pitched for over a year and a half…
I rather have K-Rod, not that Sabathia wouldn’t make an impact on the Mets, heck he can hit too! Him and Santana at the top of the rotation going into the 8th and possibly going for a complete game would be a thing of beauty but I still would rather get a Lowe type and sign K-Rod.
I think another intriging option to consider is Bobby Abreu who will become a free agent. I know he’s 35 but he can steal bases, hit for power and drive in runs, a table setter for the rest of the lineup. Unlike some guys on the team, Abreu hustles every night. I know there is that wall issue but if the Mets can get a bat like Abreu into the Mets lineup, it makes them stronger and he plays everyday and isn’t injury prone which is also a plus.
…bobby abreu who also hits left-handed, is afraid of walls, and doesn’t steal as many bases as he used to and lest we forget, he’s 35…
no thanks.
Umm the last three years he’s had 2006 - 30 2007 - 25 2008 - 22 = Equals a pretty good base stealer.
Stay away from Abreu. He is one of those deceiving stat players. Puts up good numbers but he’s a loser.
ok stevie, great. he can steal bases and….it doesn’t change the fact he’s 35, is a lefty and isn’t good defensively anymore which means his stolen bases don’t help.
I’d much rather go after Pat Burrell. Yes, I know he is hated in NY, but he can flat out hit. We need another right-handed bat.
idk…first of all burrell is hated!!! and second..he went into alot of streches where he looked awful at the plate..ice cold.
I don’t want either of these guys. Pat the Bat just had his best year. Sure he always killed the Mets but I’m not convinced he’ll repeat his 2008 performance against the rest of the league next year. I’m pretty sure both these guys are on the decline.
If we could get CC, a legit closer, and improve the bullpen, I’d feel really confident going into 2009 even without offensive additions. I’m not counting on this scenario though…
no thanks on burrell. hitting .250 isn’t exactly killing the ball.
Did any of you guys see this news about the Padres fielding offers for Peavy? I know, this would mean the Mets would have to give something of value - but his contract is reasonable and he’s better than Sabathia. He’s also not as fat and not as beaten down. I think thye should make an offer for Peavy.
Heard about that. Peavy would be great … what would the Mets have to give for him though? What are the Padres needs?
The Padres need offense, which means they would want either Reyes or Wright.
Hmm … yeah, somehow I just don’t see that happening. I don’t think the Mets would have the guts to trade one of those two. I could be wrong.
The Padres wouldn’t expect Reyes or Wright.
Fernando, Evans + Niese is a good starting point for Peavy.
the padres will want offense. we need all the offense we can get. f-mart is a starting point. if they’re going to trade one of the top six pitchers in the game, you’re going to bet they want your best hitting prospect and pitching prospect and then sweeteners.
the mets don’t have enough this time. add the fact that the padres don’t have to trade him as he is under team control for another what? three years?
I don’t think Martinez, Evans and Niese comes close to getting you Peavy. I’d be shocked if there was any deal we could put together that didn’t involve Reyes or Wright that would be good enough to get Peavy. Especially considering he’s under control for a few more years.
Just like we HAD to trade Reyes to get Santana, right?
Umm it’s a completrely different situation Danny. Santana was going to be free agent, there were like 4 teams in the league who could afford his contract plus he had a no trade clause, which is the number 1 reason he ended up with us instead of the Rangers, they basically had a deal done but the twins didn’t think Johan would waive his clause.
Neither of that is true for Preavy, he’s under control for 3 more years. Any team in the league could concievably go after him.
Abreu has good offensive stats but he doesn’t play as hard as you suggest and he is terrible in the OF. I mean god-awful.
And of course he is 35…The only 35+ yo guy i take in the OF is Manny
abreu may be the worst idea of any i’ve heard…..
Im afraid that if they sign Sabathia, theyll get cheap in the actual areas of need for the team. K-Rod + Fuentes are the most important signings this team can make, and maybe Manny Ramirez.
Whether it’s Manny Rameriz, Pat Burrell or Bobby Abreu, Mets need another big bat in the lineup. I think each one has their own strengths and weaknesses but they’d help prevent the rest of the lineup to slump for long periods of time.
Besides, I’d rather sign one of them instead of trading 4 or 5 more guys for Matt Holliday. I just wouldn’t do it.
Pat Burrell and Bobby Abreu are OK, but are streaky and strike out a lot. Manny Ramirez is on a different planet. MLB pitching is like AA for him.
manny is on a differnt planet if he “likes” where he is playing
Burrell does strike out a lot, but a few more k’s wouldn’t hurt this lineup too much if it means more run production in return. Besides, how many more pitches will he get to hit when he is surrounded by guys like Wright, Beltran, and Delgado? In Philly, he is usually followed by either Victorino, Feliz, or sometimes Werth, all of whom aren’t as fearsome as Pat is. If you slide him into the 3 hole, they have to pitch to him with Beltran, Wright, and Delgado following. There’s no way around it. Just an intriguing thought, that’s all.
****arino, feliz, werth, dobbs are all guys who are making a reputation..not as a HR player but a pesky hitter. Burell to me is a streaky hitter and we should stay away from…not to mention i dont think i can bring myself to root for him.
If the pockets are deep enough and he’ll come Omar would be stupid to not look into CC. We are losing Pedro and Ollie and Maine is coming off surgery.
No doubt the pen needs some serious help but that 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation would be great for years to come.
I think it is obvious the bullpen will be addressed. If they went out and got C.C it wouldnt be telling the fans they are going cheap on bullpen help, it would be telling us that they are going into this offseason no holds barred with money being no object.
The problem is that last year we all thought it was “obvious” that the BP would be addressed. All that happened was getting rid of Mota.
I’d love to keep Smith and dump the rest, but with whom do we replace them?
I think Omar was a little more forgiving last year. After all, they did put up incredible numbers in 06 and half of 07, so I think he was hoping they would snap out of it. It was a bad gamble, and I think he will not make the same mistake twice. Have faith in the man. If it weren’t for him, we wouldn’t be as hopeful for this team in the first place.
And we can replace guys like Heilman, Sanchez, and Schoeneweis with a couple of arms via trade, and/or give Parnell, Kunz, Stokes, and Ayala a shot at a spot as well.
We thought that with the return of Sanchez, he along with Heilman would be serviceable 7th and 8th inning relief, complimented by Wagner in the 9th, Sosa for long relief, and LH and RH specialists along the way. Getting rid of Mota and signing a bunch of scrubs like Wise, Armas, and Rincon to battle for mop up duty was supposed to be enough. Johan and a full season of Pedro would give less innings to our bullpen in general.
It seemed like a solid plan, but there were many moving parts to it. There were so many risky what-if scenarios.
As it turned out, everything about that gamble went wrong for us. Sanchez wasn’t quite the same after all and Heilman had the worst season of his career. And, then, Wagner got injured. We had no 7th, 8th or 9th inning pitcher.
According to MLBTR, Delmon Young might be available on the trade market this winter. He might be that young left fielder that we are looking for.
I don’t see the mets, who got rid of milledge because of attitude problems, trading for a guy with bigger attitude problems
He’d be nice. He’d also probably cost F-mart plus a lot more.
And considering they traded Matt Garza for him I’d be interested in knowing why he’s on the trading block. Young left fielders with upside like Young don’t just get moved twice for no reason.
probably didn’t show enough power considering he played in the homerdome
KROD….AJ…MANNY…DONE
no ollie…or pedro…get rid of heilman…show…castillo…and luis aguayo
the big 3 above make everybody better…aj will be cheaper than ollie than and has more guts…pick up delgados option
1) you still got one more sp slot….you planning on going with niese?
2) what makes you or anybody think manny would sign over here..he seems to like LA. I doubt LA would let him walk considering how their lineup looks with him there. Also the type of money he would want + his attitude…you heard what he had to say about boston…wonder how he would have played if he actually “liked” where he is playing. I dont want that circus. You can see it now…If manny doesnt execute its because he doesnt like NY….
I want absolutely NO part of Manny Ramirez. Everyone’s pretending like this guy will still be motivated and hustling everything out AFTER he gets his 4 year 100 million dollar contract. He’s past his prime and I dont trust Manny for ONE SECOND to bust it and play hard eery single game after he gets paid. That’s not Manny. It’s just not Manny and everyone’s gettin gblinded by his postseason right now. Just wait till he gets those mysterious knee cramps before the Mets have to face HArden or Hamels, the guy is a joke and he lacks heart. NO WAY, NO HOW, NO MANNY.
agree 100%
Boscov, every report I have read or saw about Manny says that he is the hardest working major leaguer in baseball. He works on his hitting on a constant basis and is one of the most motivated guys off the field.
I get your concerns about the “knee problem” but I would suggest you reading Bill Simmons article on Manny and that whole situation.
Plain and simple Manny was manipulated by Boras to get out of his current contract. Boras was not Manny’s agent when he signed the current contract so Boras does not make any money until Manny signs a new contract. Boras told Manny lies about the Sox organization and Manny followed Boras instructions of getting himself traded.
i guess than it just boils down to where he “likes” to play…..
Manny will go where the money calls. If LA ponies up then he will stay, if the Royals are top bidder he will go there.
The money is what is mostly important to him simply because he does what Boras tells him to do. I think Manny would like the clubhouse of the Mets as they are a loose fun club. I think he fits right in and takes ALOT of pressure off the rest of the team.
i think he would be bad for the clubhouse..that guy is a human drama show and will bring a circus to ny to the magnitude of willie watch. I dont want that kind of distraction on this team going foward.
You mean how Pedro Martinez was for the Red Sox? I actually think we would see a more tamer Manny Rameriz and I can see Manny giving two more very good years followed by two so - so years after that.
can’t sign 3 type A’s, unless one of them was already on your team. So no, this is literally not possible at all.
Big bat?
Why not sign free agent Milton Bradley? I couldn’t give a rat’s rear about his temper issues. The guy’s a swtich-hitter, a 2008 All-Star who hit .321 and his .436 OBP was third-best in the Major Leagues.
he is also coming off the only year that he has ever done that
Bradley breaks down every year, and he’s probably one of a handful of players who immediately pop into mind when thinking of baseball headcases, or players with an attitude problem.
CC is the big free agent this year so he will be talked about a great deal. If the Mets make a run for him, that doesn’t mean they are not intent on addressing the bullpen problems. Even if money and budget were concerns, between Pedro’s and El Duque’s salary coming off the books, CC could be signed regardless of what improvements are made in the bullpen (including the closer). I am a little puzzled why Wagner’s injury is not covered with insurance (maybe you can’t insure a pitchers arm at any premium) but that’s a lot of money to pay for someone recovering. Alou’s salary comes off the books and If they can unload Castillo and only pay half of his salary, then more monies become available. A lot of salary is coming of the books (including Burgos who is likely to be convicted and then the Mets would be off the hook for his pay). It’s not like if the Mets sign CC they have nothing left to do anything else….
wagners injury was called a preexisting condition…and was therefore not insurable
I don’t think thats the case…No way Billy’s ligament damage was preexisting. I believe the reason is that companies generally will not insure a player over the life of a contract. He may have been insured the first 2-3 seasons, but thats it.
but it would give them alot less to work with given the investment to CC. Bullpen should be our #1 goal in the offseason. We can do w/o signing an overused starter.
Counting Burgo’s salary as coming off the books is a non-issue. The guy made 415,000 last year. Not really a big deal in baseball terms.
Mike i agree 100%. Yes CC and Johan would be a hellova 1-2 punch in baseball but the fact of the matter is SP was one of our strenghts last year…Bullpen was not. I am worried about the abuse the brewers put on the poor guy. Yes he got the job done but im sure that will affect his future and i dont know if an investment of 150 mill would put us on the short end of the stick.
When they acquired Johan last year they made a point that having him on staff was going to help the bullpen because it would lighten the load on them. But it didn’t really work out that way. Since Maine was out (and not particularly effective when he was pitching) and Pedro was out (and definitely not effective when pitching) and you never knew what you were going to get from Ollie, it didn’t really help.
Although I think CC would help, I am concerned about not focusing resources on the bullpen. I would not want to sign CC, using all resources, and then scrape together bullpen pieces as has been done in the past.
Now if you can tell me there is no budget, and that they could go out and sign CC and K-Rod and Fuentes and Orlando Hudson, then great. But I still think there is a budget.
And beyond all of that, I’m a little wary about how CC is going to do towards the end of a long contract.
agreed. I doubt they are going to have a budget bigger than this year. They havent gone yankee crazy yet and i think CC is going to be a health issue later on because of the abuse milwake put on his arm and will tie us up money wise.
there is no chance they sign K-Rod AND Fuentes. this pipe dream that some fans have that we can sign 2 closers and use them as set-up/closer role is ridiculous
I agree from the $$ side of it. I think that because Fuentes has been on again/off again closer/set up guy the role wouldn’t be as big of a problem for him as for someone else. But I am sure that $$ won’t allow it.
I wonder if Capt. Lou wishes he started all his regulars against Milwaukee??
lmao i was thinking the exact same thing this weekend…boy i bet lou wishes he was playing us than the dodgers….
Sat his regulars then their bats cooled off…The post season is so much about the hot team going in.
His regulars did not walk 7 guys in the opening game.
The Dodgers pitchers had a big series and the Cubs did not.
No matter what way it scaled the Cubs played the team with the worst record in the National League playoffs as they should have, and they failed.
Had the Mets gotten their business taken care of and the Cubs played them in the first round or say the Phillies depending on how things shook out, and either beat them and the Dodgers got beat by the East winner people would be saying the Cubs probably wish that…
bottom line if you ask me, some players on the Cubs expected to just roll and came way over confident and once they were down they played tight.
After watching the Angels/Red Sox series. I’m frowning toward signing K-Rod and leaning toward signing Fuentes instead. Will cost less money and K-Rod seems ripe for a downturn in his productivity. Seems to have loss something off of his fastball and is relying more on off speed stuff to get hitters out.
ok but dont let all the saves hes gotten during the regular season be the end all on your decision about krod..
and the reason he is relying on that offspeed stuff is to lessen the chances he will get injured in the future..you know…what most people have been saying around here…
guys who throw fastballs do not get hurt, guys who throw breaking pitches and rely on torque the way Rodriquez does are more prone to breaking down.
I’m hoping you have some academic sources with proof of that loaded statement right there PAtrick
right and krod has altered his delivery to reduce the torque and lessen the chance of injury. Sure his fb suffered a bit but the bottom line is the kid knows how to pitch and has helped himself out more by finding a way to reduce the chances of injury in the future.
I agree … I think they should save the money on K-Rod and use it in one of the other 7 holes that need attention on this roster. Maybe trading for a closer would be a better idea … a guy like Soria, Putz or Street.
impeding? A new low for Nichols……
Because he missed the “n” key?
Picky, picky.
The Mets do not need another “big bat” they need a reliable bat, if Alou was healthy he is the type of guy who singles the opposition to death with runners in scoring position.
That is the kind of guy they need.
Hopefully the kind of guy they need is slightly more healthy. :p
no kidding, but that is what they need, there is a lot or rah rah about a guy like Eric Byrnes, but he has I believe only had one season where he hit above .300 with RISP and he has at least one where he hit below .200.
To me, Ramirez is just too old and will command too many dollars to make the risk worth rolling the dice on.
Omar is going to make use of trades this off-season, not just free agents. I see him trying to get players like Magglio Ordonez, Benjie Molina and Francisco Cordero via salary-dump trades.
A trade of bad contracts involving Castillo (though not for Eric Byrnes, who doesn’t meet our OF requirements) is a very real possibility. Silva and Zito are probably not good enough and too expensive; ditto Pierre and Andruw. But somewhere out there is a contract a GM is looking to dump.
Paging Omar.
As other have stated, signing CC doesn’t mean the bullpen cannot be addressed. I’d stay away from K-Rod and instead try to get Fuentes, who will be much, or at least a bit, cheaper. 82 Ks in 62+ innings will definitely help our pen. Jeremy Affeldt would be nice too, but we can also address the bullpen, as someone else suggested, by determined scouting. Find some guys that other teams are tired of waiting for, guys that need the change of scenery, and so on. I think Ayala and Stokes can be useful here, as long as they are not counted on to be a closer (and they won’t be). Bring in about 100 guys and see how Spring Training goes.
But CC can help too, because he pitches a lot of innings. Part of the bullpen’s problem the past two years has been the fact that it’s been overworked, early and late in the season. CC relieves some of the pressure on the pen by going 7 every time out. It’s not ideal, because he will cost a lot of cash, but I do think the Mets will make a run at him. Probably won’t get him, but at least make an effort.
I posted it in another threat, but I believe we need to add only a couple pieces to the pen to make is suscessful. its obviously easier said than done however.
we need a closer and two “crossover” guys that can routinely come in and just throw strikes. we have a good defense and they should be utilized
9th - krod
8th - ayala/stokes/sanchez
7th/6th/long relief - two “crossover” guys
Roogy - smith
Loogy - Show.
both smith and show were very effective at getting out their respective hitters. it was when they were placed incorrectly they failed.
now the question of who those two crossover guys is the difficult part. I dont know who they are. but its just a basic blue print that i think can be succesful.
plus im sure they can find teams that are interested in heilman, feliciano, etc to trade with.
in addition to my post above, maybe parnell can fill in one of those crossover spots as he throws hard and throws strikes. maybe also kunz? again, just ideas.
You’d be better off having Ayala and Stokes functioning in the 7th as “crossover guys” and then signing a guy like Beimel or Lyon to pitch the 8th.
to paraphrase Bill Clinton’s campaign slogan: It’s the bullpen stupid! Omar loves the media splash when he signs star players, but this isn’t what the Mets need. They need a whole bunch of guys who can pitch two to three innings effectively. Stay tuned.
I have no problem with the Mets looking away from Rodriquez to find the closer but Brian Fuentes simply does not make me feel any more secure than Luis Ayala or even Brian Stokes in that role.
They should trade Delgado to an AL Team (Soria, Putz, Street) and then use the money to sign Teixeira.
Tex at first and a closer not named K-Rod = a better team.
What the hell?
Why would a team who isn’t going to win next year (Seattle, KC, Oakland) want to trade their biggest bargaining chip for an expensive, old 1B who they’ll have for one year?
Teams don’t make trades because we want them to.
Oakland’s the only team that has ANY chance of being decent next year. And Street gets hurt ALL the time.
It doesn’t have to be a straight up trade. Make a package around Delgado as the main piece. It could work.
Lets hear your idea. Let me guess … sign K-Rod and Fuentes and Sabathia. Right? Because that’s realistic.
Dafatone80 is right. Teams like that aren’t going to be in the market for Delgado. Teams like that who are rebuilding are going to want to trade their closer chips for top prospects or young players under team control.
I wonder if the Blue Jays would want him back. They are close to contending and could use a big bat. I’d sure love to have BJ Ryan….
Now the Blue Jays could make sense. I think we’d have to throw in a prospect who they could see taking over as the closer or set up man eventually. Kunz would be my guess.
My suggestion is below. It’s sign Fuentes, if he wants too much money go for K-Rod. CC would be nice, but not necessary.
All 3 of those teams can use a DH. Add another piece to the deal and one of them might bite.
BJ Ryan is not a bad idea either.
The piece would probably have to be F-Mart. And $$ to pay Delgado’s salary.
That piece would absolutely not have to be F-Mart.
They could use a DH. They could also use a lot of other position players. KC could be a surprising team in the future, although I don’t see them parting with Soria, who has to be their most popular player. As I said, Oakland might consider it, but Street gets hurt too much anyway.
That leaves Seattle. Now that Bavasi has been fired, I figure they’ll probably stop being run awfully. And they’re so far away from respectability it’s ludicrous. But if they do want to continue being idiots, I wouldn’t mind ripping them off. Putz’s injuries last year concern me.
I wouldn’t put anything past Seattle. In their mind they are probably still contending.
Just because these teams could “use” a DH doesn’t mean they would go trade for Delgado. They aren’t going to give up young pitching for a veteran on a one year deal. That is the type of deal that a team on the cusp of contending would make. They are going to hold their chips and try to get multiple quality prospects.
Take Oakland for example. Look at some of their recent trades of pitching (Haren, Blanton). They don’t take high priced veterans back, despite their need for a DH. They get young players back.
I understand what you’re saying but instead of trying to prove me wrong, come up with a better idea.
The Mets need to be creative … I’m just trying to think outside the box.
I thought I did. Send him back to Toronto. That is a team that is close to contending but could use a bat.
Lets see. Both the Angels and the Red Sox apparently will be interested in Teixera. Send Delgado to which ever of those teams misses out. The Angels have a bunch of promising bullpen arms.
I don’t think you are going to to get a real stud closer for Delgado. I think you could get one via trade but it’s probably going to take more of a package of young players. I think if Delgado gets traded (maybe pair him up with Heilman) you could get other bullpen help.
The problem is trading Delgado puts a huge hole in our line-up, we need him not only to be there but to hit like he did the second half of the season. How do we replace that?
If you wait to see where Tex goes … who plays 1B for the Mets if you trade Delgado? That’s the catch 22.
I like your Toronto idea.
If you do trade Delgado with Heilman … what would you expect in return?
Adam Dunn could work.
I’m not really advocating trading him. And to be honest I don’t think they will. Did you hear all of the complimentary things Jerry Manuel had to say about him on his conference call?
I was just throwing some ideas out there for those who think they can get a big time closer for him.
MILWAUKEE - CC Sabathia smiled when told Mets fans are dreaming of a starting rotation that begins with him and Johan Santana.
“That sounds good,” the premier free agent pitcher of this winter told The Post.
And he said he likes it here..sound good enough…i would love to see that but they need to fix that bullpen.
Ugh. Just had a huge post vanish on me because I said something bad about Cinci’s offense. To summarize:
If CC, yay. If no CC, get Lowe. He’s older, but he’s been solid forever, shows no signs of slowing, and has performed in big spots. Ollie wouldn’t be bad either, as he beats the Braves and Philly.
If Fuentes is significantly (4-5 mil a year) cheaper than K-Rod, get him. I don’t want to spend 16 million a year on our closer if we don’t have to.
Joe Beimel, Jeremy Affeldt, Juan Cruz. Take two of those three. Or all three, if you’d like.
Keep Scho as a LOOGY, keep Duaner as he might just recover some of that arm strength (he had major surgery, and it was a pretty new/unique procedure, so we don’t quite know how long full recovery is.) Trade Heilman and Feliciano. I think the league has caught onto Feliciano, and as much as I’ve defended Heilman, it’s time for him to leave NY.
That leaves LF. I like Dunn. I heard murmors of a Castillo for Byrnes deal, but we’ll have to eat Castillo’s contract AND throw in some prospects. And Byrnes is overrated. Still, he’d be better than Angel Pagan.
As to Dunn, I bet he puts up very good numbers (large runs total,, with his great OBP) when he’s on an offense better than Arizona’s “we don’t walk or hit for power” or the Dusty Baker “watch my sluggers bunt!” show.
I like your bullpen guys, as long as they are acquired to be set up guys. The last thing we need again is Omar trying to be “creative” and getting some setup guy to try to become a closer. We all know how well that works.
I personally prefer Feliciano to Scho as the LOOGY. I think we should get rid of Heilman and Scho and all of their baggage.
I believe that the idea of Byrnes for Castillo was a bad salary swap. They are owed about the same amount of money, just Castillo has 3 years remaining and Byrnes 2. So they wouldn’t have to eat the salar as much as it would be a wash. I don’ t mind Byrnes as long as he’s healthy and you could upgrade at 2nd base. Dunn is definitely much more intriguing and would change the dynamic of the lineup.
I am also sick of Schneider. I thought he was a bust. I’d love to get Benji Molina in here.
that wasn’t omar trying to be creative. conventional wisdom said that if wagner got hurt, then heilman or duaner could be servicable replacements. unfortunately, we know how that went.
omar didn’t want to be held hostage by billy beane or o’dowd in colorado (who had no intention of trading fuentes, instead making another run at it) for a closer. i agree with omar and respect his foresight on this. had he traded the farm (murphy/evans) for fuentes and we still missed out on october, he would have guaranteed himself a one way ticket out of new york. instead, we still have chips if we want to make a deal.
wonder how quickly reese havens can move up the ranks in the minors. you hear good things about him and comparisons to pedroia. where do i sign up?
That’s not what I meant. Omar has made some comments that if they don’t go out and sign someone for next year (like Fuentes or K-Rod) they had some “in house options” (Stokes and Ayala) who they could use as closer. That’s what I meant by “creative”.
that is simply positioning. if omar said we were desperate, k-rod would have the upper hand in negotiations from the start.
he also said the same thing last year, that we have in house options for our starting rotation if unable to acquire santana. it’s a front.
do you really believe half the crap that omar says…you got to think they got to downplay the krod market as much as they can to see if they can shave off a few $$.
No, I don’t necessarily believe it and I understand posturing. However, I don’t necessarily believe that the Mets want to spend the $$ for K-Rod. And if Fuentes signs somewhere else, then what?
I actually have concern that Omar isn’t going to do enough to fix the bullpen, just like last year.
well im sure certian pieces in the bp have to be moved that at the begining of this year didnt have to be(heilman). Be certain that the bullpen is top priority for omar as i doubt he will let it bite him again come 09.
From MLB Trade Rumors, here’s the “closers” who are available. If they decide not to sign K-Rod (which I can understand) the pickings are pretty slim here. Then you get into a situation where you have to trade, which could work, or you have to sign a non-closer type and stick him in the role, which could end up a disaster.
Closers
Brian Fuentes (33)
Eric Gagne (33)
Eddie Guardado (38)
Trevor Hoffman (41)
Jason Isringhausen (36)
Brandon Lyon (29)
Francisco Rodriguez (27)
Salomon Torres (37) - $3.75MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Kerry Wood (32)
Call me crazy, but I would go with the 27 yr old that isn’t a head case…..yet.
you can’t play Dusty Baker for Adam Dunn’s putrid one dimensional look, Baker only managed him for 4 months.
Blame, not play, that made no sense
One dimensional?
Power and the ability to draw walk are two dimensions.
They’re two very, very, very important dimensions.
I can blame Dusty Baker for having three players hit walk off homers in at bats where they were earlier bunting.
I would love Dunn, but based on the the rumors/stories that were floating around during the trade deadline the front office just plain doesn’t like him/has no interest in him. Personally I agree he would be a good investment as he brings a power bat and could possibly take over first base once Delgado leaves.
Also as far as catchers I’m pretty sure the Rangers are going to be trying to move Laird and probably Salty too, I just have no idea what the asking price would be for them. I’m not sure we would have the pieces to get either without making another area weaker.
I’m fine with our catcher situation. Why do we need to give up lots of pieces for a catcher that will most likely not hit tons better than Schneider?
The Mets were 2nd in runs in the NL last year. If we want to improve the offense, work on it in at a position where you can get real offense. Corner OF, for example.
If Salty turned out to be the next McCann, great. But I don’t see it worth the risk.
Wonder if Maine, F-Mart, Castillo, and Murphy would get us Ian Kinsler and Salty. That guy would be a good fit. Sign Manny and CC. Texas upgrades their biggest weakness, lose a bat (but they already have them), get a guy who can DH if you can’t find a position for him, get a top outfield prospect (we know how much they love top outfield prospects , and I’m just hoping they take Castillo :-).
Any shot? Would you guys do it?
One of my friends is a huge baseball geek and a huge rangers fans. I basically proposed the same trade to him and he laughed at me. The Rangers are loaded with offensive prospects, really it’s ridiculous how much better their offense is going to be, if they make trade it’s only going to be for quality youngish pitchers and Maine isn’t enough of a sure thing/good enough to tear Kinsler away.
Basically what I mean is everyone in that deal, other than Maine, is worthless to them, and Maine isn’t nearly good enough to be a center piece.
Glad I’m not dreaming though. They are loaded with young bats, which is why they would needa good arm. I’m sure they could get better though. Just a thought. But then again, I’m the same guy that proposed D-Wright for Roy Halladay :-)
I don’t think the Rangers would have any reason to part with Kinsler for less than they got for Teixeira, considering he’s actually signed and reasonably so. AND through Salty in?
The Mets would have to give up a whole lot more than the Mets have to get Kinsler. Maine is the only thing there that would mean anything for them.
too many type A’s, try again.
having sabathia and santana will take a lot of pressure and innings off the backs of the bullpen. i want k-rod, but having two aces is nothing to sneer at. 1986 had a very nice line-up, but it blew away the league with starting pitching
If they want Sabathia, spend the money on K-Rod. He will most likely last longer since he only pitches 80 innings a year max and weighs about 100 lbs less. He’d also be cheaper.
When you consider you’d be paying per inning pitched I don’t think he’d be cheaper.
we need to fix the bullpen first. we all know that. I was just thinking what if there was a chance to sign CC then trade him for some really good bullpen arms. not sure who those arms would be but it may be interesting if we get CC and then turn around and trade him for bullpen help as our tradeable players, heliman, castillo, sho, sanchez may not bring in much better arms than the three relievers mentioned.
a guess we should look for a good three way deal too. perhaps involving Angels, Mets and Brewers.
Sign CC and work on the bullpen afterwards. Everyone is saying how the BP kept us from the playoffs this year and I don’t disagree…however, if CC had been on the mound last Sunday rather than Ollie, I’m pretty sure we’d have made the playoffs. AND with a 1-2 combo of Santana & Sabathia, once in the playoffs, we’d be pretty indomitable.
umm take a look at the post below in regards to cc in the postseason. Second there is no way to know what CC could have done for us on the last day so dont bother to speculate. We could have had the best pitcher in all of baseball on the last day but the point is if we would have had at least a decent bullpen…it would not have come down to the last day for us to make the postseason. That is why the bullpen is so important to fix. We are pretty set with the SP we got. Just need to plug up 2 holes and make good changes in the bp.
no we’re not. let’s make sure maine comes back fully from the bone spur. we need to replace pedro and ollie. even if you resign ollie, he’s no sure thing. pelfrey and santana are locks. so you have santana, pelfrey, and then what? neise/parnell as your #5/6 you still have to replace ollie. i see why people want cc because you double him up with johan and that’s two guys who will go seven every time out. 60% of your rotation ?(including pelfrey) going deep for certain can do a world of good in masking the flaws in the pen. if you add k-rod then the picture becomes a bit clearer and you can play a little bit with roles in the middle.
im not sure if you interpreted my response correctly but in any event. There was a post that maine would be 100% come ST. So we got Santana,pelf,maine. Those 3 are set. The plan has always been pitchers that go deep mask the bullpen but our problem is no matter what time the pitcher comes out..the guy following finds a way to mess it up. Omar has to address the arms in the bullpen so that whenever the sp is done the next arms that follow will get the job done. You got to fix the arms in the bp and get 2 people for the sp holes with not alot of money. I am not going to depend on a kid that cant do well against better teams than the atlanta braves in a year that we want to contend(niese). You resign ollie or if you let him go, pick up guys like garland and lowe. Both combined would be probably what you sign CC for(21mil per). Now that you got 2 holes filled, the rest you can use to address the bp\upgrade the bench\get a more servicable LF if possible.
Do we know what Maine is at 100%?
You know, I’m surprised no one has brought up that CC’s been pretty bad in the postseason.
I’m willing to chalk this up to inexperience and luck, but he’s done the following:
6 IP, 2 ER
5 IP, 3 ER
4.1 IP, 8 ER
6 IP, 4 ER
3.2 IP, 5 ER
I vote to Sign CC.
Although, I’d love Manny on the team I don’t think we need him but do need Church to have a good year and a solid (RHB) LF for the next year or two until F-Mart is ready.
With Santana, CC, Big Pelf, and Maine, we could split Niese and Pedro (1 year $8 million).
K-Rod (no way he’s not w/ the Mets next year) and a cross-over pitcher or two to complement Smith, Stokes, Ayala, Feliciano.
first off NO to pedro and he will want more than 8mil
second i dont think we need CC. We got santana, pelf and maine. If we can afford to plug up the last two holes with perez and lowe we are set and it gives us the deepest rotation out there.
your right that we need more crossover pitchers..affedvit has good numbers for both L and R. I would also look at cruz. I think show or pedro needs to go.
Glavine was paid 8 mil. I’d think Pedro would do the same with incentives. He wasn’t worse than a 5th starter and if you can platoon him with Niese, why not?
Do you really think Lowe and Perez are better than CC and Pedro/Niese? They will both go for 15mil each. Plus, I’d rather get draft picks for Perez at that price.
Besides K-Rod, I don’t think we should look at top tier relievers.
yes i believe lowe and perez are better than cc and pedro/niese because you know what your going to get with perez and lowe. CC you have to take into consideration the abuse the brewers put on that guys arm and the long term invesment your doing with him. Pedro cannot pitch anymore and cannot stay healthy and niese is not ready to pitch against hi quality teams(sorry but we wont be playing teams like atlanta all year). We need dependability and people who can eat innings. Lowe will give you the innings eaten and servicability as well as ollie when he is good(and he has been more good than bad this year under warthen). I dont think lowe will go for 15 mil and maybe perez will come at 15 or cheaper. CC will want roughly 21 mil per year and pedro wont come cheap either.
I dont think there are top tier relievers other than krod. I think we should get the best arms or trade. Cruz and affidvit(spl) are worth a look. We have trade bait in castillo/heilman/feliciano or show. Hopefully omar will make the best of it.
The jury is out on whether Pedro will be effective next year, but I’d prefer CC and anyone else instead of Perez and Lowe. I’m thinking heading into the playoffs with a rotation of Santana, CC, and Pelf.
I just think that if you’re going to spend money, might as well get the best out there.
I think it would pretty much be a waste of money to bring back Pedro. He might have an effective year but chances are he won’t. I agree with Sanchez. I’d rather go Perez & Lowe or something, i actually would prefer not lowe than CC and ???
We have to be realistic, we all know what the mets are gonna do !
Im from Aguadilla PR , the hometown of Mr. Delgado, he is one of my favorite players but i bleed orange and blue way before he arrived ; that being said, this is what i think the METS have/will do:
1- dont pick Delgado’s option
2-Sign Mark Teixeira 7 yrs/140 m with player option
3-Sign K-Rod 6 yrs/96m with Both option
4-Sign Derek Lowe 3 yrs/43m with club option
5-Sign Juan Cruz 3 yrs/12m (not type A free agent)
6-Sign Joe Beimel 3 yrs/9m (not type A free agent)
7-Trade Heilman,Endy and Castro for Bengie Molina’s big contract
8-Trade Scott Shoeneiweis,Mike Carp and Argenis Reyes to the Orioles for George Sherril
9-Trade Luis Castillo to Arizona for Eric Byrnes
10-Sign Jose “Tony” Valentin
11-Re-sign Fernando Tatis
12- Trade Pedro Feliciano to Texas for Frank Cattalanotto
I know pretty busy offseason, but that is the price that we have to pay!
Now our team will look like this :
Lineup
ss Jose Reyes
2b Dan Murphy
3b David Wright
1b Mark Teixeira
cf Carlos Beltran
rf Ryan Church
c Bengie Molina
lf Eric Byrnes/ Catalanotto
Bench
2b/3b Jose Valentin
OF Angel Pagan
C Brian Schneider
LF/RF/3b/1b F. Tatis
1b/2b/OF Catalanotto /OF Byrnes
Starting Pitchers
L-Johan Santana
R-Derek Lowe
R-Mike Pelfrey
R-John Maine
L-John Niese
Bullpen
CP-Francisco Rodriguez
SU-Juan Cruz
SU-George Sherrill
MR-Joe Smith
MR-Joe Beimel
MR-Luis Ayala
LR-Sanchez/Stokes/Parnell
I’ll go to war with this team !
cannot be done…..how many times have i written this but YOU CAN’T SIGN MORE THAN 2 TYPE A FREE AGENTS.
TRUE ! What about OLLIE in there for Lowe ?
CC would be such a better sign than Manny. Though I wouldn’t be opposed to signing neither, if the Mets made other moves.
Having CC and Santana back to back in the rotation makes a team ’slide’ nearly impossible. It also gives the bullpen some much needed rest.
That being said, if it’s between KRod or Fuentes and CC, they have to get the closer.
I’d love to see the Mets sign both Fuentes and CC, then trade for either a 2nd baseman or LF and play Murphy in the vacant position.
Sign a bench player or two (or trade for Byrnes or someone like him) and an additional decent reliever and this team is set to dominate in 2009!
I think defense is key. Watch a team like the Red Sox, Angels, Rays, or Twins, and they take away so many extra base hits, runs, and they keep pitchers pitch counts down. This all helps the bullpen.
I think Omar is going to have to consider trading FMart. I also think he should trade Delgado to the Jays or Rays for one of their nasty bullpen arms.
The two Type A’s i’d sign are Lowe and either KRod or O-Dog. I would retain Ollie Perez, as he would be the 4th starter on this staff. What better 4th starter on a real staff that exists can you find? Jerret Weaver? Wakefield? Blanton? Jo Jo Reyes? Dave Busch? Give me a break.
If you get Krod:
Johan, Lowe, Pelf, Ollie, Maine
If you get O-Dog, Neise for Maine who would close.
Delgado and Sanchez for Scott Downs to set up, Murph at 1B.
Fmart, Kunz, and Heilman for Matt Holliday.
Reyes
Hudson
Holliday
Wright
Beltran
Church
Murph
Catcher
OR
Reyes
Murph
Holliday
Wright
Tran
Church
Catcher
Argenis
bench would then be chavez, tatis, schneider/castro, anderson
ugh, marlon anderson.