|
In his latest report for SI.com, Jon Heyman, citing ‘one GM,’ reports the Mets will make a ‘big play’ for Manny Ramirez this offseason.
Meanwhile, according to Tracy Ringolsby of the Rocky Mountain News, Ramirez’s agent Scott Boras has said his client will command a five-year deal worth $85 million for the veteran sluggers services.
In 53 games for the Dodgers this season, Ramirez batted .396 with 17 HR and 53 RBI.
Prior to being traded to the Dodgers, Ramirez hit .299 with 20 HR and 68 RBI in 100 games for the Red Sox.
 |
 |
 |
RSS 2.0 Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Just please no.
We already have three prospects that can play left field, 2 of them have already produced at the major league level. This is not where the money should be going.
Can he play middle reliever or closer?
I agree.
Say no to Manny.
We do not need another “Pedro” contract, where the players is good for a year or two, and then dead weight for the remainder of the contract.
(And the above comment is not meant as a slur to Pedro, he has meant more to the Mets than is on-field time for sure).
Manny is different. He is a liability, defensively, day one. This team should be built on defence.
Not to pick on Daniel Murphy, but he is probably a better fielder with better range than Manny, and he committed two errors each of which probably cost the mets a game. Granted, Murphy’s bat made up for it on other occasions, but this would be the same for Manny.
Sure, Manny would be a lightening rod taking pressure off the other players. However, if we was a lightening rod, which he does not seem to be in LA, he may become the disgruntled Manny that was in Boston rather than the happy-go-lucky Manny that is in LA. We do not need that Manny.
For the offense he could bring, we made the right move in 2008 not to trade for him. Lets keep our heads and stay away from him.
Lightning. There’s no “e.”
I totally agree with you, magic. Well said.
I profoundly disagree with you. How can you possibly say it was not the right move to get him this year? For basically nothing?
This team is soft, has little fight and no character. Manny address all that plus he’s one of the most feared hitters in the game and will be for at least another 3 years.
Who do you want to play left field instead?
Everyone should listen to the doctor.
If he wasn’t going to be looking for a 5 yr deal at $17mil per I’d agree….he’ll be 37 early next season, you really want a 42 year old Manny roaming LF? Does his contract include a provision for a rascal to increase his range?
I’d be fine with 3 guaranteed and an option 4th. He plays a good enough left field to play next to Beltran.
I’ll agree with you there, but with the performance he’s been putting on in LA and his #1 motivation being money, I highly doubt he’d settle that low.
As exciting as he’d be, I’d still rather move towards younger, home-grown players then expensive free-agent aging vets…
Manny won’t get 5 years. I can see him here for three though.
I agree with the Doc, our team is soft. Manny would be great in those tight situations. But even with that being said a 5 yr deal is definitely too much. But if we can meet him half way which most likely he wont go for it, I would say heck yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
We can’t take the option of Manny off of the table. He can hit lefties and righties, and makes Delgado more expendable.
Hmmmm ..Fmart is not ready – Nick Evans? no thanks.
One of the most feared hitters in baseball – no brainer – sign him now. What this lineup has been missing is someone to protect Wright and Delgado – and to scare the beejeezus out of the opposing team. It’s an easy call. You can always trade him later on to the American League.
That being said we still have to address the other issues but I like Manny in orange and blue.
we do??? Nick Evans being one of them???
Yes Nick Evans being one of them..
I’d rather take my chances on a player who showed great potential this season, has his career on the rise, and costs significantly less than for a player who will be greatly overvalued and will most likely be on the decline.
A little late on my comment but Evans did NOT show great promise. He is a utlity OF at best.
NO!!! I have one word for you “OLD”, does that sound familuer? He worked for the Dodgers because they had a one year lease. To OLD and too much money.
Omar can’t have Manny on the Mets.
See, Manny never played for the Expos.
So he’s off the list.
GET MANNY! He will be the only Met who will score runs for Johan.
I am not in favor of adding Manny. He WILL break down at the end of this contract, just like Pedro was obviously going to break down towards the end of his (and now everyone is suprised, and angry).
Manny will start sitting out games, oddly, when Dan Haren is in town, or Zambrano, or Hamels. He hot dogs it, he is putrid in the outfield, and with no contract to play for a compelte utter lack of motivation. Why on earth would the Red Sox have traded him for Jason Bay?
If you want Manny on this team I have to a$sume you’re either 13 years old or just senile. And I can’t even spell that word a$sume right because the sit eblocks it, because this site is becoming worse and worse by the day.
z z z z z z z z z z z
A: Sign Manny, what a grea player, we need him.
B: No, he’s old, can’t play D, only out for the money
A: No, you’re an idiot. Manny is great, we win a world series who cares?
B: no, thye need bullpen help
That, MrBill, is worthy of a z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z
Let me guess, “this is a blog, we can say what we want” yeah, ok. This site if infested with high school and junior high school kids pretending they know what’s going on. All of you are pathetic.
dont forget us college kids
Geez, dad, why so glum? If you treat Manny with respect, he will return the favor. It’s as simple as that. Boston’s front office runs underhanded smear campaigns in order to manipulate their players. How would you like it if your boss did that? I’d be angry. He is, without question, the most feared hitter in the league. He also recently (as in right now) took a team on the brink into the second round of the playoffs. I’m not sure about a 5-year contract. I was thinking 2 with an option or something. I’m not sure he’s what this team needs, but it would be hard to say no.
Sign Manny. No Brainer
Hes too old, a liability on defense. He needs to stay in the AL where he can DH. I’d love his bat but the contract hes going to command is just too much when you weigh in the other factors.
I love Manny’s bat, but even if he wasn’t a little bit crazy giving a 37 year old a contract like that just isn’t a wise investment.
5 years isn’t a wise investment?
He’ll be in his 40s for the majority of his contract!
John McCain would be in his 80s for the end of his second term, yet almost half the country believes that he will be productive the entire eight years.
We just want 40-60% of the contract, when Manny is 37, 38 and maybe 39 — to be worth it.
You’re right, it wouldn’t be a wise investment, but for the first 2-3 years, he could produce with the best of them and bring a championship. If that happens, then years 4 and 5 wouldn’t be a big deal.
normally i would agree, but Manny is just a natural hitter and will always be able to hit just like Alou. I would definately sign Manny at 17mil per.
Did you really just compare him to Alou? Have we not seen enough of natural hitters who can’t stay on the field?
Manny screams of a guy who is going to start breaking down. Let’s not get so giddy over what he’s doing for LA that we make an insane long-term commitment to him.
except the difference is manny doesnt have a history of injuries and he is a better hitter.
Manny doesn’t, but 40-year olds do.
He has all the signs of a player who will make his next employer regretful over offering such ridiculous money to him.
He doesn’t hustle. Fact. He plays a putrid left field, fact. Boston traded him, with some minor leaguers, for Jason Bay. Why would Boston trade him for Jason Bay?
Because he’s only motivated by money, he’s dominating right nwo because he knows he’s goign to get his contract, and Boston, being a smart franchise (see: Pedro, Damon), was not going to sign him to another deal.
This would be a huge, huge mistake. 3 years from now everyone would be calling for omar’s head afte seeing Manny magically miss all these games that coincidentally have come against other team’s top aces. We’ll be screaming that he doesn’t run fly balls out, ground balls out, he doesn’t run doubles out. We’ll al lbe mad because Manny will be 40 when it’s just impossible to keep producing – meanwhile the sensible among us understand that signing Manny would be a huge, huge mistake. He can’t come in and close games – he can’t even come in and shut teams down in the 7th or 8th inning. That means the Mets don’t need him.
Let’s get a few things straight. Manny has no injury history and he showed up to camp this year in the best shape of his career. Regardless of age, comparing him to Alou is ridiculous. Might as well compare him to Barry Bonds at the same age? See? Ridiculous.
have u seen what jason bay has done in the playoffs?
They traded him + minor leaguers+ paid his whole contract for Jason bay. And I’m a big fan of Jason Bay I would have had no problem with the front office givin up a lot to get him (back) in a mets jersey. But Jason Bay isn’t Manny. Manny slugged friggin .700+ with the dodgers. The Red Sox wouldn’t have given him up if they thought they could win with him.
How long into Manny’s contract would it take for him before he would start behaving like he did when he was in Boston. I mean come on build this team on GOOD fundamental baseball players. Manny is not one of them regardless of how he swings the bat.
5 and 85, good grief.
Yeah, no kidding. I already thought the reported 4 year deal was too long.
That’s Boras talk. I’m still waiting for the Beltran negotiations to “start” at $20MM per year for 10 years. He never actually gets the ridiculous numbers he throws out there.
5 and 85 is cheap considering Fuentes is looking for 3 and 38. That is insanity.
Yeah, that’s crazy. I wouldn’t even give myself a 5-year contract.
Why not. Aside from the draft pick we’ll lose the production will be better than the left-field shuffle we’ve dealt with this past season.
the leftfield shuffle is not the reason we lost this year or last. manny is a luxury not a necessary upgrade.
But Manny is clutch. The king of the “big hit”. He would have gotten Murphy in from third against Bob Howry.
Would he have single-handedly prevented us from blowing 30 saves this season? Nope. Manny is NOT worth 5 years at $17M a year. That’s ridiculous. He will be 37 next year, which means he will be 42 when his contract expires. We don’t need another Moises Alou. Stick with Murphy/F-Mart for the FUTURE of this franchise.
who is to say murphy wouldve been at 3rd there? he wa splaying LF that game.
I didn’t mean it in a literal sense. I just meant that in that type of situation, Manny wouldn’t have struck out on ball 4.
while manny doesn’t save games, i bet you he would have found a way to get a runner home from third base instead of striking out and looking helpless doing it.
manny in some respects is a luxury but at the same time, he’s the perfect stopgap so we can give f-mart time to mature with no pressure.
agreed…
5 years? no thanks. love manny but we missed the boat at the deadline. we had our chance its done, focus on a starter so no names and rookies arent making crucial starts in september for the 3rd year in a row. and obviously improve the bullpen.
He won’t get 5. Why would you expect him to start at 3? So he can get less than 3? Of course he’s going to ask for 5. He won’t get it.
Besides, when Delgado gets traded, everyone will be salivating over getting Manny’s bat in the lineup.
Delgado traded? Who will play first base? Nick Evans? No way…he’s not ready for every day playing time at the MLB level. I’m not salivating over Manny. I’m salivating over a World Series, and we need pitching to get us there.
do you really think the mets will trade delgado? this isnt the nba hes either on the team or they buy him out and we get nothing.
I think they will pick up his option and they will seriously look to trade him.
Who will play first base … I don’t know … I guess it’s possible that Teixeira gets signed here, if they don’t sign Manny. Don’t rule that out.
And yes, Evans actually can play first base … that is an option too.
Evans can’t hit at the MLB level on a consistent basis though. He batted like .260 something as a platoon player. Let him develop down in AAA for another season or so, then give him a shot at 1B next spring when Delgado is gone. As for Teixeira, I would love having him in NY. I don’t think he wants to be here, however, since he’s already said he loves it in Anaheim.
Yeah, well they are all options right now … and it all should be considered. That’s all I’m saying.
As far as Evans … he plays good D at first. If you end up signing a guy like Manny … you can let him mature at the MLB level. It’s not unheard of these days. Look at the Rays.
I think if anybody would be traded in the next couple of years it would be Evans. I’m sure a few teams would like to have a decent prospect in exchange for some relief pitching. Another point to make (and it is a big “if”) is the fact that the Mets drafted Ike Davis this year. I think he will be the future of the Mets at 1B. He did struggle a bit in Brooklyn, but in 3-4 years he could be ready. Until then the Mets can find a short term solution at 1B for a year or two after Delgado is gone. I know its a long time from now, but it may give you an idea of where Omar wants to go with this team in the future.
Hey, you may be right. Evans is a definite trade chip if they go that route.
i doubt you would get much in return for a str8 up trade with evans. Im sure evans would be a complimentray with a trade not the centerpiece of it. Omar seems pretty high on evans though so we will see…
That’s why I think it’s Delgado that goes.
I love Manny and would love to have him…BUT…no way in heck I’m giving a 37 yr old man a 5 year contract. That’s crazy. Yea, Manny would be great in years 1 to 3 of his contract, no doubt. But it’s years 4 and 5 that are the issue.
If the Mets are prepared to take a hit like that then go ahead but it didn’t work out with Pedro, Alou, Wagner or Castillo, so Omar should have learned his lesson by now.
so you frontload the contract and maybe in years 4 and 5 he has value to an american league team as a DH.
The left field shuffle did not blow 30 games.
Man, you people are insane if you think a 5 year $85 investment is good for this guy.
I’d give him no more than what his two option years were worth, He is 37.
Of course it’s not a good investment … but do you honestly believe he will get 5 from any team, just because it’s his first asking price?
Do you honestly think he will accept a 3 year contract? He will accept a 4-year deal with a player option for the 5th year at the least. In his own eyes, he’s still 27. Manny is too egotistical to lower his demands that much.
He can’t accept what teams won’t give him. That is the point. 5 is the starting point and it will be talked down.
If any team is stupid enough to actually give him the asking price … well then … good luck to them.
I guarantee somebody will give him at least 4 years. Ridiculous contracts aren’t new to baseball, or even NY for that matter.
4 is still not 5 though. I think he’ll get a 4th year as an option year. That’s the limit.
how about 3 years 82 mil with a 4th year team option?
As much as i don’t want to pay a 37 year old hall of fame out fielder 4 tp 5 years and 70 to 90 million dollars, watching Manny play makes it awfully tempting.
Umm……considering this team isn’t really known for clutch hits, I say get him. I don’t care if we top the Yankees for #1 payroll, just sign who we need to sign.
the wilpons care..besides how has the #1 payroll in baseball served the yanks….
We need to sign Manny? Seriously? Wow, I’m glad you aren’t the GM. Here’s a tip:
30 Blown Saves = We need a new bullpen
$17 mil per year at age 37 for 5 years!!!!
thats insane..guess boras didnt learn from the arod deal..
Didn’t learn? It worked for him there, why wouldn’t it here?
didnt arod negotioate the majority of the yankee deal and left boras out of it. Boras wanted what was it like 330 mil over 10 years…nobody would pay that and i thought that damaged his credibility(not to mention the timing of that announcement in the WS).
A-Rod is making 30 mil a year, no? Boras gets 3 mil a year off of that one contract. I’m sure he’s boo-hooing his learned lesson.
lol that was not my point at all but thanks for contributing.
ARod was 32 at the time. Manny is thirty-freakin-7. Please, no Manny.
despite everything this would not be that bad of a contract.
Its a cheaper annual salary than he was going to get with the 2 option years on his old contract. At one point they were saying he wanted 25 million for 4 years.
If you think 20 million a year for 3 years (doable) then 25 million in the 4th and the 5th year (maybe he’ll retire by then) is free.
17 million for Manny is doable and sahould be done.
for 5 years justin…no thanks
I’m not sold on him, but 5 years is too much. If it was 3 years for $60 then maybe. Having him hang around for that long just seems like a bad idea.
You need to spend time on your mathematics.
I think 3 yrs, 60M is a good deal for Manny. He’s worth $20M, but committing longer than 3 years would be a nightmare.
The other problem I would worry about is Manny in NY. Fans and media will tire quickly of Manny being Manny, especially if his production drops off.
IMO that would be the biggest problem, not the age but the media head ache he would bring with Manny being Manny. He didn’t function very well in the fish bowl atmosphere in Boston so I can only imagine it would be worse here, and I we have no idea what kind of affect the constant media frenzy will have on the rest of the club house.
agreed gina. You made this point a few weeks ago and i completly agree. Manny didnt help himself by saying what he said about not liking it in boston. You can just see the headlines now if manny doesnt come up big…”manny doesnt like ny”. Manny seems like a very sensitive player and theres no room for that here.
I disagree with both of you. Manny is oblivious. He is not sensitive. All he did in Boston when they were trashing him was go out and win World Series MVP. All the guy did in Boston was perform very well, in the clutch.
He’s just like Strawberry in that he responds to negativity with big hits. (Straw said that in a recent interview that he loved being boo’d so he can prove people wrong) Manny is perfect for NY.
Or jogging, make that walking to first base when he is pouting.
If Manny is perfect for NY, let him play for the Yankees. We play baseball in Flushing.
LOL … we play baseball in Flushing? OK. But the Red Sox won 2 championships with him … and now he’s in the NLCS with the Dodgers … mostly because of him.
What would you call it that they are playing, chess?
Mikey, the Sox won the series thanks to a certain group of people known as the PITCHING STAFF. When you have guys like Mike Timlin and Jonathan Papelbon closing games (and Beckett, Dice-K, Lester, Schilling, etc. starting them), the importance of a guy like Manny becomes less significant. No, they are not playing chess, they are pitching very well.
The point I was trying to make was that if we sign Manny but don’t completely address the BP, NY will be nothing but a circus next year. All hitting and no pitching isn’t “baseball”, in my opinion. Manny will go back to being Manny after he has signed his fat contract, and we will still be blowing games in the late innings.
As for the Dodgers, see Cubs post-season record
Well actually, Papelbon didn’t close for that first championship. Yes, they pitched well but if you remember it was Manny and Big Papi who did most of the damage the last 4 games of the ALCS … and in the World series. The first game against the Cards was a slugfest … not pitched well at all.
Offense was a huge part of it … and a bloody sock.
Manny won the World Series MVP. He got that for a reason.
Now, I don’t think anyone on this comment section is proposing signing Manny and not fixing the bullpen. Obviously, the bullpen is the top priority. It’s pretty much a given that it has to be addressed.
The discussion here is whether or not Manny is a good fit for the Mets, regardless of the other needs.
Yes, Manny is absolutely a very good fit. Anyone who doesn’t want him on the team is silly.
“If Manny is perfect for NY, let him play for the Yankees. We play baseball in Flushing.”
Yeah, we play baseball in Flushing until September, then we just collapse every year. Just because Boras wants 5 years doesnt mean he will get it. Manny is worth 3/60 million. Spending huge money on closers or relievers is the most dangerous thing. We all know that relievers are inconsistent from year to year. Even if Manny does start to act up, he has real value to other ballclubs. Manny produces in the clutch and he puts up the numbers year after year. And he isnt injury prone like Alou, so dont compare the two. Alou wishes he could put up the numbers that Manny does , healthy or not.
Signing Manny only reduces our money to spend on a bullpen, though. Look, I’m not discrediting anything Manny has accomplished. I’m just saying that we should stay focused on what our goals are and not get sidetracked.
i dunno. i think two rings and a world series mvp while putting up some of the best numbers ever for a right handed hitter tells me two things. the guy is a legend and whatever problems he may have had in boston, they did not affect him on the field.
if the mets can get him at a reasonable front-loaded deal, you have to be tempted to get him. all this talk about clubhouse chemistry is overrated for the mets. where has having a bunch of compliant model citizens gotten the team the last two years?
agreed….
my agreement was for dwrights post.
No matter what happens the bullpen will get addressed. The starting rotation will also get addressed. You have to decide if you want to spend that money on K-Rod or Manny … or Teixeira. One of the 3, the Mets will be throwing money at.
The argument can be made that the close role can be addressed without spending all that money on K-Rod. If that’s the case, money spent on Manny won’t effect the Mets addressing the pen.
If your not going to sign a closer..only option left would be a trade option. Only trade bait i can see would be castillo/heilman/show/feliciano/castro and you can make a argument reg delgado….not the best trade bait out there imo.
No, you can still sign a closer not named K-Rod, for less money.
Yes, you can trade for one.
Or you can go really outside the box and try Maine as the closer.
I’m not advocating any one of the three … just stating the options.
lol i love that picture of manny though
Heyman has no real sources. Half of his comments are complete conjecture and the rest are his personal opinion.
5 years, LOL, 5 years. Boras is amazing. 5 years for Manny this is great.
3/60 is the most you get bud.
I think Manny would be the player to put the team over the top. Boras won’t get that 5 yr deal though…Maybe 3 years guaranteed, with two easily vesting options, with more money in the guaranteed years.
The Mets CAN in fact afford to acquire Manny, and focus on the rest of the team. We have seen how much the offense has struggled against LHP…Manny would fix that.
In addition, it doesn’t preclude the team from addressing other areas of concern. The team needs a closer, which will cost some money, but other than that, they really just need a lights out 8th inning guy, and those types really won’t cost ya anymore than $5mill, which is a relatively small outlay. With the closer and set-up guy in place, then you can use the guys we have now in defined roles….Stokes/Ayala/Sanchez as middle relievers, Smith/Feliciano/Schoenweis (whichever lefty stays) as your specialists. That my friends is a 7 man ‘pen.
The only thing that getting Manny stops you from doing is going after a guy like CC. As many other people mentioned, there are some other attractive starters on the market.
right but those starters arent going to come cheap either and we need to fill 2 holes in SP. If the mets make a play at manny..should be the last thing on the list.
Ah Great point Dirty. Fix the pen, get SP, see if you can trade for Holliday then look at Manny.
I’m almost sure the plan is to trade Delgado and have Manny replace his bat. Trading Delgado will help fix the pen.
I dont think trading delgado is the plan..he is a cheap option with a major upside offensivly. His age works against getting anything good with delgado via trade. I see your point mike and i can see both sides of the coin but i just dont see the mets pulling the trigger especially w/o a back up. Then again murphy is going to play 1b aparently in the fall.
Yeah but his cheap option with major upside offensively is precisely why he will get something good back in a trade. Yeah I could be wrong but if they’re really going to get hot and heavy with Manny … it makes perfect sense to trade Delgado for some bullpen help.
Delgado will not be resigned to be traded. I can almost as$ure that. You don’t need to trade him for bullpen heilp anyway. There is plenty on the open market. I would much rather have Delgado, Cruz and Oliver over whatever middle reliever you could get. It’s not like someone is going to trade their closer for Delgado. You don’t trade a guy like Delgado for middle relief when you are the Mets. You get both.
I see what you’re saying but I also see that the Mets have two many holes to just fill with all signings. Couple that with the fact that internally they want to make some kind of change, without breaking up the “core” … Delgado is the prime candidate.
Delgado’s gone!!! and here’s why. It doesn’t matter if he guarantees 40 HRs next year, the Mets need to change the identity of this team since the current one just didn’t get it done. I agree that the BP was a disaster but how about some scoring in innings 4-9. Had they done some of that the bullpen wouldn’t be so stressed. Manny’s a professional hitter who, unlike Alou, doesn’t have injury problems, and is outspoken, which is what this team needs.
It has already been mentioned that the Mets intend to pick up his option. They won’t do it and trade him for a part that can be picked up on FA.
actually they should, and hopefully will……besides KRod and Fuentes, there is no one that should be getting a contract. See Scott Schowenweiss, Guillermo Mota, Eric Gagne, etc etc. Trade him to the Jays or Rays for one of their MANY live bullpen arms, ei Scott Downs, Grant Balfour. Throw in Heilman to tip it in our favor.
I don’t think they will go after 2 starters….Omar will definitely go after one higher profile starter, and I think his pursuit of a second starter, who would occupy the 5th slot in the rotation will depend on how he meets the needs of the offen. The pitching market is very deep this year. Omar will be able to strike quickly for that top of the rotation guy, and then wait for the 5th starter. If he is able to acquire the left handed bat (I still think it will be Manny over Holliday) then I would think they would give the 5th spot to Niese.
we already have a top of the rotation guy-santana
I still believe it would a HUGE mistake giving the 5th slot to niese, a total failure on omars part if that plays out. Omar would have to trade holliday and holliday would be on his walk year so to resign him after this year would cost big $$ where we would have a cheaper and (scouting opinion) similar production out of fmart when hes ready to take over LF. I would be ok with signing manny but NOT at that contract above..thats just rediculous and again as a last option.
How is giving the 5 spot in a rotation to your top pitching prospect a huge mistake? It worked with Pelfrey, didn’t it? I think Niese is capable of being a decent 5th starter.
Disagree on Holiday. There is just nothing to point to that Fmart will give Holiday production soon or ever. I would send him packing and worry about Holiday’s contract later.
As for you point about the 5th starter, unless that big name starter is CC you need to get 2 starters. Having Niese and Maine as question marks in the rotation is asking for another bad bullpen.
Actually it did not work with Pelfrey at all. Did you completely forget 2007? Niese is not ready. We are lucky we did not ruin Pelfrey by bringing him up too early in 2007.
If I remember correctly, Pelfrey only had about 12 starts in the minors before making his debut. He only had 18 total in 2006. Between 2006 and 2007, Pelfrey has just 33 starts in the minors.
Niese has had 88 starts in the minors.
Those two are not comparable.
how did he do against teams OTHER than the atlanta braves dwright. Point is the kid is still a bit raw and i dont believe we need to rush him. Like people have said the pitching this FA is pretty deep and if we dont have to rush him out of neccessity like we did with pelfry, why should we do that with niese when omar can pick up a pitcher that can eat inning and give you servicable production while niese can work on his stuff and contribue later when he has more weapons in his arsenal than a 85-90 mph fb and a 75mph curve. I just dont see the point in rushing a kid thats 21 to the majors and giving him A WHOLE SEASON after 3 starts..2 of which he got lit up by above .500 teams. Im sorry give the kid more time to develop and get someone to fill the 5th hole. No need to pull a pelfry
Teams other than Atlanta? He had 3 starts! Not to mention, all three of them were in a pennant race! Look, with almost 100 career starts in the minors, he’s not going to get much better facing that level of competition. He’s done very well at each level. Anything he needs to work on to make him better in the MLB can and will be done in the off-season and Spring Training.
And like I said, this should not be considered in the same category as what we did with Pelfrey. Pelfrey never had time to work in the minors, since he had only a couple of starts. Pelfrey was drafted in 2005, and debuted in July 2006 (pitched many times in 2007, also). Niese was drafted the same year, but didn’t debut until this season. Having him start in 2009, four years after being drafted, isn’t considered “rushing” him.
i still disagree depending on niese for #5 starter. I would like him to develop a bit more before handing him the job. We can easily find a stop gap until that happens with this FA market. We know what we will get with a lowe or a garland..but with niese it will be pelfry all over again during his debut year going 0-6 and couldnt make it out of the 5th inning. I agree in eventually handing the job to niese but i dont think he is ready for it quite yet. I would not be opposed to having him spot start here and there though or if an injury were to happen to one of our sp
Agreed Dirty.
I’m only advocating Niese in the event that all holes on the offense are shored up, as there is only so much money than can be spent. If the Mets can bring on a guy like Manny or Holliday to play left field, then why not go for Niese in the 5th spot? As long as he can go 5-6 innings without giving up 5 runs, it is fine. Development on the ML level will only help him more.
Of course if you can bring in a cheap stop gap, who won’t be looking for more than $5mil/year, then go with that.
This team hit lefties better than righties this year.
The Mets are forever stereotyped as always wanting to make the “big play” for a guy 5-10 years too late. They get Alou, Pedro, El Duque (and maybe Delgado?) off the books and they urge to splurge on a 37 year old. How on earth could a 5 year deal to Manny ever work out in the Mets favor? It’d be 4.75 years of overpaid cancer hell. Might work out with a different team, but the Mets? No shot in hell.
THANK YOU!
The Yankees have been buying aging big name free agents since the beginning of the decade, and how often have they won the world series?
What a huge waste of money this would be. Scott Boras is insane. I think Manny can be entertaining and obviously incredibly talented, bu the’s aging and will not help the clubhouse. How can Omar possibly sign Manny before addressing the real reason of this past failed season…the bullpen?
I wonder if in a way he may help the clubhouse, at least in the beginning. His presence would probably take a lot of attention away from Wright/Reyes/talk of collapse. That might be a positive in the beginning.
Of course that may change eventually. But the first year might be a nice honeymoon. That’s probably why I wouldn’t go to 5.
No National League team should give him a 5 year contract. 3 years top. AL team on the otherhand could use him exclusively as a DH on the back end of that contract.
Or an NL team could plan on signing Manny, use him for his best 3 years, and then dump him to an AL team after winning the WS. Of course that NL may have to eat some of $ off the last couple years.
They’d be eating a TON of money.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Omar do this. He’s given out the extra year in the past so it’s not unheard of for him. Five years would be a big mistake.
he gave the extra year to secure a need(he misread the market but bottom line he sealed a hole) and not to mention didnt really go overboard with $. Manny would be a luxury not a need.
Clutch hitting is not a luxury, it is a need.
And the manager and hitting coach should be providing that need, it’s not the players. Proper approach at the plate is everything, and Manuel already admitted he didn’t do that right.
lets not get into the clutch hitting argument that goes on every once in a while here…just by getting manny doesnt mean we will get clutch hits….and btw clutch hits/clutch runs mean nothing if you dont got a pen to preserve them.
How will Manny get the clutch hit when it’s Carlos Beltran batting with 2 out an RISP?
Now if you could get him for a stacked 2 years with 3 option years maybe. I would even go 3 years with 2 options if the option years were where the money was. Maybe 3 for 48 and 2 option years at 18.5 million each. That would be 5 for 85.
“Maybe 3 for 48 and 2 option years at 18.5 million each”
-id go with that..dont know if boras will though
2 years $42M guaranteed, MAX. Anything more is financial suicide.
I am going back and forth on Manny. IF< IF < IF they could get him for 15-17 a year for 3 years with big option years and went with 2 cheap closer options they could still afford the SP they needed.
That being said I am not sure I would not rather have a trade for Holliday and a top closer.
A)
Sign Krod, Lowe and a # 5 starter, trade for Holliday and small moves for the pen.
B)
Sign Manny, Lowe and a 5th starter. Go cheap with Everday Eddie and Juan Cruz as our closers.
Sign Manny for 3 years and give him Luis Castillo as a consolation to use as he wishes (total cash value approx. $18 left on his contract) to offset the remaining 2 years Satan Boras is asking.
Get a bullpen.
Get a bullpen.
Get a bullpen.
Agreed, if we don’t go the Krod route I want
Everday Eddie
Juan Cruz
Stokes
Ayala
Oliver
Smith
Parnell.
Thats a good looking pen with only 1 specialist. And no one returning from the originial collapse except Smith.
I’m kind of on board with that, though Eddie has been a shell of himself lately. Personally, I think they need to find a better talent than Juan Cruz, to step in and be that lighs out 8th inning guy.
i agree but i still think they should pick up juan cruz.
A better talent than Juan Cruz? Have you looked at the guys numbers? He has closer type numbers and is a FA. That is all that needs to be said. The guy strikes out somewhere around 12 per 9.
As for Everyday Eddie. He had a rough couple of games once traded to the Twins. However, he was very solid for the Rangers. A 3.65 ERA and a WHIP of 1.11.
Folks, wake up. We are in the worst economic crisis this country has seen in 80 years. Who the hell is going to pay for this contract? Its the financial instituions that buy up a lot of the season tickets and the luxury boxes. Half of them won’t exist by Opening Day. I’ve signed on for season tickets myself and have already e-mailed the Mets asking are they going to adjust ticket prices for next year. I expect the answer to be a flat out “no”, so I’ll need to re-evaluate if its worth just kissing goodbye the10% deposit. I am sure others are in the same boat as me.
Aww, so you’re already rich compared to the average Mets fan, and because you’re seeing problems you think the Mets should make a bad business move and lower prices?
News flash, the majority of Mets fans aren’t affected and will make the same amount of money this year as next. The average ticket price for the cheapest seat might even be lower next year, which helps out the rest of us.
No, I am by no means rich. I split outer loge box seats with 5 other people, so you do the math. I am not shelling out tens of thousand of $$$ here. Its obvious you have no clue what is going on in the economy.
And to further comment, everyone is affected by this economic melt down, from the bank teller to the CEO’s who ignored the risk their instiutitons were taking and are largely responsible for this mess.
I’m making the exact same amount of money I was, and I will continue to. I doubt any of my expenses are rising significantly(unless you count the Mets actually making the playoffs in ‘09 and me paying for tickets). So how is this affecting me exactly? Citi Field is still going to be full. People are still going to be buying the tickets, and going to the games and buying merchandise. So why should they suddenly decide to make less money because some other people screwed up their own finances?
Dude, people are losing their jobs left and right. Unemployment just went from 4.9% to 6.1% with many of those jobs in the high-paying financial sector. Even the bank teller who worked at a WAMU branch in NY is affected b/c those branches will likely be shut down. The recent jobs report announced 159,000 jobs were lost in september and every sector was hit hard. Unemployment is only going higher too. While your pay may be the same, inflation is eating into it. Overall, our economy is a mess and the first thing people will cut back on is entertainment. While 2009 may not be affected as many people have already committed to buying tickets, if this is a long-term recession, corporations will be cutting back on those multi million $$ luxury box purchases.
The Wilpons would be follish business men to fork over 5 year contracts at this time.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling. The world is at end. Oh wait, why do we keep having gas shortages? Because people keep buying gas.
All this while the top of these corporations make 100’s of millions? Why would they cut back on entertainment? Your average joe might cut back but someone else will step in there place. It’s laughable to think the entire Mets fan base will be effected by the economy and not afford to be able to attend.
You obviously have no clue if you don’t think everyone is affected by what is going on in the economy.
The economy has been getting crappier for years and yet attendance and revenue is up.
Affected? Yes. On hardtimes and changing their style of life? Nope. I am a teacher. Exactly how is my life changing? Because I have to spend more money for food? Ok. So that’s gonna keep me from going to a baseball game? Only if I can’t budget my money. Fact is if I give up my seat someone is going to take it. Plain and simple.
Hubie,
Baseball stadiums (though not Shea – but that was due to a horrid team) still filled up during the late 70s when we had double-digit inflation, double-digit unemployment, and double-digit inflation. As did movie theaters, Broadway theaters, football stadiums, etc.
You must be awfully young not to realize that our current problems are fairly mild, historically speaking.
thereal –
The cost of everything is going up. Gas, heating oil, food. Budgeting can only stretch your money so far.
Need a new car – the cost of a loan and the car itself is going up.
Credit cards – minimum payments will go up, as will rates.
Corporations will cut back on tickets, because it is discretionary spending. How can they justify having seats when they are laying people off?
People who work in sectors impacted by the economy (finance for example, which is a good portionof the NY economy) may cut back on buying tickets if they are worried that they may lose their job, or if their raise is not there, or their bonus is going to be low.
Wall Street is the engine of the NYC economy. As it cuts back, it impacts the rest of the people in the city, from the corner bodega to the neighborhood diner and beyond.
gipper –
ticket prices in the 70’s were a LOT cheaper than they are now. It is not even close.
ceetar – revenue is up because ticket prices have increased.
and they are going up even more dramatically next yr.
The more companies that close up or cut back, the fewer season tickets are sold. A good portion of the seats are season’s. And a lot of places are cutting back. From the big banks down to the local business.
That hurts attendance.
Hey Ed:
I am glad at least someone here gets what is going on. While I stil hope this recession is going to be mild, it looks more and more likely this will not be the case, especially given Bernanke’s comments today.
Speaking of ticket prices, was thumbing through my old ticket stubs last week as I added my 2008 ticket stubs to the pile and my loge box tickets from May 1985, when I saw Doc strike out 16 on a 3 hit shuout, they were $9.
Gipper, I guess someone needs to explain to you that today’s problems are not mild. We have not even hit the bottom yet.
Someone needs to explain to you that baseball and other sports did not suffer as much as the rest of the economy even during the Great Depression.
Yes, some will cut back, but in general, attendance is still up. The economy hasn’t been great for years. Payroll and costs have probably doubled in 10 years, yet we have record attendances. So why would that change? Demand is obviously high enough to accommodate. It’d be a bad business move to lower prices after a record attendance season (MLB-wide and at Shea) with no real suggestion that attendance will drop or the park won’t be sold out.
sign me up, manny at just a mil more than what delgado made. plus he has shown no signs of slowing down. if Alou can still hit until 41-42, so can Manny.
*supposed to be what delgado will make next season
alou could still hit….when he was healthy enough to bat. Surprisingly i dont think manny has many health issues. Like i said i think manny should be last on the list of things to get this offseason.
thats fine, but getting Manny allows you to trade Church or more likely FMart to fill other holes.
why trade church….hes solid in RF. No need in creating holes to fill
well if they would rather keep FMart, i would trade Church, but acquiring Manny would would make 1 of them expendable.
i dont really think so. Church is young and can give you servicable RF defense as well as offense. manny is 37 and i doubt if signed we would keep him till 42. We need to get younger and fmart can come in behind manny when his time here is up. That would give fmart 3 years of development in the minors and would make him better at contributing. Not to mention how far along our draft picks from this year would be in 3 years time
church is not young, he’s 30. outside of defense, we still don’t know what ryan church is as an everyday player. he’s still a huge question mark and let’s not forget the concussions.
well im hoping a full offseason of rest and working out would benifit churches recovery…your right we do not know what church is capable of when playing everyday but the first 2 months were pretty impressive befor an injury took him out…
Really so we can get Manny for 13 million? Cause that is all Delgado is supposed to make next season.
It’s just idle speculation by an opposing GM at this point. And I hope it stays that way.
My prediction is the Mets don’t even court Manny. They have too many issues with their bullpen to allocate the type of money he’ll want.
The Mets scored the second most runs in the NL this year, more than Philly or LA. Just fix that damn bullpen.
good point heilman..they did that with this offensive squad and the majority of them are coming back.
The article also mentions that the Mets think Castillo, Heilman and Church would do better playing somewhere else. That’s total B.S. Church has never had a problem playing here. That’s why I don’t believe anything until I hear it from Matt first.
Huh? Most of the time all Matt does is just post links to other people’s commenataries.
Regarding the speculation that Church doesn’t want to be in NY (which was started by Mike Francessa) Matt just posted a link to Adam Rubin’s blog.
LOL, don’t you know? Heyman is close to Fastcessa who is the one who is pushing that Church story. Also, note that Heyman says “may include” when mentioning Church, so I bet he’s just listening to the FatMan.
I’m not discounting the possibility that Church may have been unhappy, but Fatcessa has no credibility. I’ll believe it when a reliable source says so.
Also, I would think if Church were really unhappy, he’d ask his agent to ask Omar to trade him. Heilman’s agent called Omar a few winters ago to tell him a trade would be welcomed if he couldn’t start.
I don’t really believe that Church is that unhappy. I wouldn’t, however, be shocked if he were traded. He is a younger guy, good fielder, good hitter, under team control, and may be attractive to other teams.
And if people are upset then Omar can just say “he hated it here”!
Church and Heilman for Soria and Miguel Olivo? I’m a huge fan of Olivo. I just hope he can co-exist with Jose and Sandy “Human Shield” Alomar :-)
I am a fan of Manny Ramirez and like to see his bat in the Met lineup between Wright, Delgado and Beltran. But for five years, 85 million: HELL NO!!!!!!!!!
I’d rather pursue pitching than overpay for a 37 year old who can hit the heck out of the ball but whose personality may conflict with the New York media intense environment. If he couldn’t deal with the Boston media, he probably can’t handle the NY media.
Heyman has flip-flopped on this numerous times.
Who is this “one GM”? Theo Epstein? Billy Beane? Unless it is Omar Minaya, it is irrelevant.
trade church and a prospect (or heilman) for JJ Putz
if it’s true, trade Castillo for Eric Byrnes
Sign Manny
Sign Derek Lowe
Sign Orlando Hudson or keep Murphy/Argenis at 2nd
Sign Bob Howry and Dennys Reyes (not sure if these are A free agents, if so we can only sign 3 i believe, so go with the murph and reyes at 2nd)
New OF is Manny, Beltran, Byrnes
New 2B is O-Dawg or Murph/Reyes
New closer is Putz
New pen is Howry, Reyes, Ayala, Dirty, Show, whoever (stokes, parnell, etc)
New Rotation is Johan, Maine, Pelfrey, Lowe, and Neise
All problems solved
lol it’s wishful thinking, i know…a man can dream, can’t he?
sorry, left joe smith out of the equation
I didn’t read beyond Argenis. He should be in Binghamton, Buffalo, or somewhere flipping burgers. If Manuel hadn’t played him for a month where he got on base once, maybe the Mets would still be playing.
YOU CAN’T SIGN THREE TYPE A’S……..NEXT
“New Rotation is Johan, Maine, Pelfrey, Lowe, and Neise
All problems solved”
Maine is a wild card here, Neise shouldnt be handed a starter spot. Other than those 2, i agree.
Two points…First Manny made sure that the Dodgers dropped his 2 option years at $20 million a year. Why would he sign for less that $20 million a year when he fought so hard to get out from that contract? Second of all would you rather have Pat Burrell or Manny Ramirez? Burrell would probably give you 75% of the prodcution at about 50% of the cost.
would love to sign pat burrell…if he’s with us, he can’t kill us anymore!!
horrendous idea……
burrell will cost more than 10mil a year.
It’s about the years and the total money. Big difference in 5/85 and 2/40. There is no way he would get a multiyear contract at age 39.
Thinking about the team long term, we’re going to need a big bat after Delgado is done next year. Looking at next year’s FA market the only big bat I see is Holliday. Therefore, I think the team needs to either trade for Holliday or sign Manny or Vlad (if available).
I still think we have to take care of the bullpen before we even think about 2010.
I’m sure the Front Office takes the long term makeup of the team when they are making these decisions.
Why not call Oakland and ask them about one of their young outfielders? They’re loaded with like 4-5 studs who can play every day?
NO, NO, NO for all the reasons that have been already stated. BUT, Omar just loves the media splash of signing big-name players so don’t be surprised if this happens.
Just an FYI for everyone, here is the order of the 2009 MLB draft that I pulled from the Baseball America web site:
Protected First-Round Picks
1. Nationals (59-102)
2. Mariners (61-101)
3. Padres (63-99)
4. Pirates (67-95)
5. Orioles (68-93)
6. Giants (72-90)
7. Braves (72-90)
8. Reds (74-88)
9. Tigers (74-88)
10. Nationals (compensation for failure to sign 2008 first-rounder Aaron Crow)
11. Rockies (74-88)
12. Royals (75-87)
13. Athletics (75-86)
14. Rangers (79-83)
15. Indians (81-81)
16. Diamondbacks (82-80)
Unprotected First-Round Picks
17. Dodgers (84-78)
18. Marlins (84-77)
19. Cardinals (86-76)
20. Blue Jays (86-76)
21. Astros (86-75)
22. Mariners (compensaton for failure to sign 2008 first-rounder Joshua Fields)
23. Twins (88-75)
24. White Sox (89-74)
25. Mets (89-73)
26. Yankees (89-73)
27. Brewers (90-72)
28. Phillies (92-70)
29. Red Sox (95-67)
30. Rays (97-65)
31. Yankees (compensation for failure to sign 2008 first-rounder Gerrit Cole)
32. Cubs (97-64)
33. Angels (100-62)
Met free agents: Pedro Martinez, El Duque, Moises Alou, Oliver Perez, Carlos Delgado ($12M option, $4M buyout), Damion Easley, Ricardo Rincon, Matt Wise… Oliver Perez is a Type A free agent… I hope Carlos Delgado got himself up there to Type A… Should the Mets sign KRod, CC Sabathia or anyone who is a Type A free agent, they will lose the 25th pick in the first round.
Delgado is a Type B.
Anything more than a two year deal would be a HUGE mistake. I personally think he’ll be out of control being so close to Washington Heights. Can we fix the bullpen first before we blow apart the clubhouse chemistry?
Given the state of the economy and in particular in nyc, the Wilpons are sensible and will not be shelling out silly money this off-season, in particular long-term contracts, when they have no idea if the financial institutions that bought luxury boxes and high priced seats for 2009 will even be around opening day.
You heard it here first. The Mets will not be providing 4 or 5 year deals to anyone this off-season.
I will bet you a New York pretzel that if the Mets convince either KRod, Sabathia or Texiera – they will shell out a 4-5 year deal (5 years plus two vesting options for Tex).
Notice I leave Oliver Perez out of the equation. I don’t think he is coming back. I hope he goes to the Dodgers so the Mets can take the 17th pick and a compensatory pick (between first and second rounds) for losing Perez.
If you don’t think the state of the economy is going to have a major impact on the economics of baseball and other major sports, you are crazy.
My friend, I have a bailout package to propose to you: Let’s find out who gets the $100M contract this year and then talk to me about baseball economics. By the way, the whole bailout package as “impactful” as it may sound with lots of pork being handed out to who knows what (look it up online and you’ll see what I mean), what it fails to address is the golden parachutes that a lot of these executives are getting with the fall of these companies from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack to Lehman and AIG. You know how much the former CEO of Lehman walked out with to this date after several years heading the firm: $500M. Now what CEO deserves that kind of money in stocks and options (unless your name is Jack Welch or Warren Buffett) while employees get ****ed over? Anyhow, this is about baseball… Mark my words: there will be a dumb owner this year who will overpay.
What are babbling about?
Here are my thoughts….I like Manny for the Mets, I know he is not the priority in the offseason as relief pitching is the priority but he is a complete game-changer when it comes to the offense. The Mets do not have a guy in the line-up that other teams try to work around or keep their eye on of how many outs they need in order to have him come up with nobody on. If you get manny you have probably the best line-up in baseball. Along with the best pitcher in baseball.
I do not think if the Mets sign Manny they will rid themselves of Delgado. Really if Delgado has 3/4’s of the season he had this past year he is an absolute bargain. I think with Manny and Delgado this team could be lethal at the plate, relieving pressure from nearly every other aspect of the team.
With Manny you sign K-Rod and Resign Perez. Just with these moves we are left with 1 hole in rotation and 1 in the bullpen. Sign Cruz if he is not a Type A FA. Your bullpen is set. Give Niese a shot to win the starting job in ST but sign as many retreads as you can to compete and have stocked away for down the road.
The bullpen would be: K-Rod, Cruz, Ayala, Smith, Feliciano, Stokes, Figueroa (or some other long-man)
Rotation would be the same with the exception of Niese instead of Pedro.
Line-up
Reyes
Murphy
Beltran
Manny
Delgado
Wright
Church
Schneider
Pitcher
Bench
Easley
Evans
Castro
Tatis (maybe)
Any LH bat not named M. Anderson
This team would be hard to compete with.
BTW I am not suggesting giving Manny 5 years. That is a bit ridiculous. I would imagine Manny gets 3 years 65 million with an option for a 4th.
LOL, You do not bat Wright 6th…
umm then where do you hit him? In that line-up that is absolutely where you would bat him. I would prefer Beltran batting before the big guys because he has a very high OBP.
The only you could change is batting Beltran 2nd and moving murphy down in the line-up but then your bottom half of the order is lefty heavy with Church Murphy and Schneider.
I wasn’t a big Manny supporter until I’ve seen him over the last few weeks. Despite the personal issues, he is one thing — a winner!
And another thing, he has this “carefree” attitude– maybe we need a little of that in September, when we have gotten tight…
I would do the 2 for $42 million deal that someone mentioned earlier, and given 2 1-year options. If we make the upfront part more money than anyone else, we might have a chance at getting him.
And, oh, by the way, shoring up LF means that we could (and I emphasize could) use our excess OFers (read: FMart?) to go after a pitcher in the TRADE market. You could also trade Church and let Endy and Nick Evans roam RF until FMart is ready.
So, in sum–
Sign Manny
Sign Derek Lowe (ex-Red Sox central here, too bad Pedro’s not coming back)
Use FMart/Church, Heilman and others to trade for mid-rotation or higher starter and possible reliever
You said trade F-Mart then you said have Endy and Evans cover RF until F-Mart is ready…Which is it?
He said you can trade F-Mart or Church. When he said, “you can also trade Church”, he didn’t mean “in addition too. He meant “also”, as in “alternatively”.
I get what you are saying
Excellent post Boisclair. I agree completely.
Manny/Lowe could be the parts that Ojeda/Keith/Carter were in the 1980s. Yes, I know Manny is older, but his career is one of being a huge part of winners everywhere he has been. And he is 36, which is hardly ancient.
And let us remember the Boston media’s portrayal of Pedro when he came here—supposedly a prima donna and a bad influence, etc, which turned out to be absolutely untrue here.
3 years, 60 Mil, and if we win one title, Manny will be a Met hero forever.
And let’s remember that with another reliable starter such as Lowe, and a hitter like Manny, first off the bullpen will have less innings to pitch, and very possibly much bigger leads to protect.
Better starters who go more innings and more run production equals less innings and less pressure for the bullpen.
And Evans did play first a lot in the minors, and even if we did not trade FMart, it is very conceivable that Evans, Church, Endy, and Tatis could very well hold down RF and 1B next year, as*uming Murphy plays 2B, although he might be being groomed for 1B.
I just don’t get the need to get rid of Delgado with the signing of Manny. The 8 million dollars would not break the Mets and it’s not like the middle reliever Delgado would bring back would be any better than the guys on the market.
Well, I am not sold on the absolute need to get rid of Delgado, but the 8 mil could certainly pay for a couple of bullpen parts. Also, losing Delgado could get us a bit younger, if Murphy winds up at 1st, which is possible, or if Evans can show that he is ready (he played 1B largely in the minors.)
Also, while I do like and respect Delgado, maybe he is not the best veteran presence in the clubhouse…who knows, as we are not there, but he has not exactly been on a string of winners in his career. Not his fault entirely, to be sure, but Manny has an truly amazing career of being on winners. And the Indians and the Red Sox got MUCH better with him. As have the Dodgers.
I don’t disagree about Manny, I am actually netural there. I just disagree with it making any sense to get rid of a cheap Delgado.
agreed.
5 years? hahahahaha
i’ll take manny being manny for 2 years @ any number, that’s it.
2 years @ $44. omar…get it done.
bring in k-rod or cc too. let’s get that citifield money into the ball club…we all know it didn’t go to manuel who the wilpons low-balled
2 years and $44? Wow. That’s a hometown discount!
lol.
$44 million. you know what i’m saying?
i’d replace castro with josh bard too. if the latter is healthy.
I know….I was just breaking em.
I think Manny would add a lot of excitement to this team. He would be a welcome addition to this lineup in my eyes.
it was funny
how about 2 years 60 mil? or 3 and 82? or 4 and 100 with the 4th year a team option?
What the hell? Didn’t Manuel just get finished saying he wants the team to be less focused on personal stats? And we’re considering bringing Manny aboard? Mr. I Can’t Get Enough Of Myself Ramirez?
NO.
Our bats are doing well enough. What we need is a BULLPEN. Why the hell are we even considering this? I can think of about five other places the money would be better spent.
lmao good point.
One major problem, how is Citifield going to be a pitcher’s ballpark with Manny being the staple in LF for at least its first 3 years? The green monster at fenway shielded much of Manny’s defensive shortcomings. With Omar going for flyball pitchers, you can’t have a DH playing in the OF.
I really can’t believe all the negativity for Manny. Maybe the greatest hitter of our generation on the downside of his career who will still go at worst .295, get on base 38% of the time and hit at worst 25 homers and someone that is fantastic in the clutch.
For anyone that says he is washed up – look at what he is doing this year in LA. We’re still playing if the Mets had traded for him. It’s that simple. There’s no way Boston has any of their WS rings without him.
Think of what this does to the lineup – everyone gets to move down a slot, Wright gets better pitches to hit with Manny behind him, and maybe Wright doesn’t try so hard with RISP because of who’s looming on deck.
All the talk about character guys is great. We have a chance to add a premier slugger to our team (again!), hopefully we don’t wiff on this chance. Sign Manny and Hudson and the offense is fine – go with 4 OF’ers of Manny, Beltran, Murphy and Church and then we can focus on pitching.
exactly Dave, but most Mets fans seem to want to blow huge money on pitchers who are inconsistent from year to year. Get Ollie or Lowe, a #4 or #5 starter, sign a few cheap bullpen arms(dont overpay) and get Manny.
Geez, open your eyes Mets fans and see what Manny has done for the Dodgers. He has made this ballclub into a contender and a dangerous one at that. This club was a weak hitting ballclub before Manny got there and now no one can beat them. He is clutch and i dont think he is a cancer like everyone says he is or he wouldve made the Dodgers worse.
You got it man, correct 100%!
And again, Pedro was painted by the Boston media in a manner that turned out to be absolutely false after he got here.
Imagine Manny’s legacy if he comes here and wins a ring, after 2 rings in Boston, 2 WS trips in Cleveland, and what he has done this year.
you just outlined what omars plan should be. Look im sure nobody is really opposed to manny coming here and nobody is discounting his offensive abilities but you want him at that price..it would severly handcuff us from moving on to more important aspects that have to be addressed.
It’s not that I mind Manny. It’s the 5 years. That is 2 years too long.
I agree–but if there is any truth to the 5 year/85 million numbers, maybe he would eventually take something like 3 years for 60 mil and one option year?
he forced the Dodgers to give up a 2 one year options at 20 mil a piece.
I think he wants to get more than 20 mil a year. And after this year he may get it.
I know nothing of Ryan Church’s hatred for NY. I know he was frustrated about being injured, but in all the conversations I had with him he never mentioned, even off the record, not liking it here. … He was also genuinely touched about the ovation he received when he came back –John Delcos
helloooo, mike fraudcesa
I’ll start now: Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Trade for Holiday would be wise. I would also keep an eye out for what the Rays and Angels are going to do with Crawford and Vlad.
Then sign Lowe and a #5 type such as Garland. I would even bring back Pedro for a year to be #5 as long as we still have Niese.
1. This is just Boras doing his job…he is very good at it, it at no point says that the Mets will give him a 5 year deal.
2. John Heyman is an extension of Mike Fatcesa…no actual facts just conjecture…see Johan Santana
Johan has no interest in pitching for the Mets!
You know everyone keeps saying trade for holiday. Why? We complained this year that we had no minor leaguers worthy of trading because we gutted the system for Johan. Holiday is still going to become a free agent. Why waste the prospects now on a guy who is a 1 year rental when you simply give up money for another LF who is better and has done it in the postseason?
Because he is much younger? Because he can still play defense? Because we can use the money this year in other spots then when Delgado leaves next season you will have more money?
exactly DjDef, what prospects do we have left that could pry Holliday from Colorado. Also, why would you want Holliday when you can have a bigger lineup presence(Manny) and not trade the last of our precious prospects??
Mah-Knee to a big market:
Boras wants him in LA LA Land or NY- its this perfect storm of intra-city rivalry which in the end will jack up his price. Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, Angels, its the Boras short wish list.
Dark Horse: Chicago Sox
I’d be open to the idea of three years of manny thats it but there are bigger marlins to fry
CC, Lowe, Burnett, Sheets in that order. One of those guys (Sabathia) and I’m happy, are you?
However, first proirity is the bullpen and the Mets will throw a ton of cash at K-Rod….(how much are we insured against Wagners lost year?)……Omar will get creative with the rest, in small signings a trade here and there and the rest up from the farm.
The tricky part of the offseason is O-Dog (don’t know how I feel about that name, yet its better than Gibran “The Bomber” Hamdan of Kuwait, the Bills third string QB).
If you can unload castillo early enough for say a byrnes and eating all the contract then do it otherwise, stick with the youth movement which is slowly coming to fruition in Flushing.
Is all this possible, yes
Is all this possible and perhaps a little Holliday Icing on the cake? Those luxury boxes at CitiField will beget a new meaning and probably cost a bit more.
at any point in the post feel free to insert maniacal laughter
I really like Texeria …
… count of our current GM to make the wrong moves
Well, that would mean signing Tex. The guy wants 8 years 200 million.
yes. Give it to him. He was very impressive in the red sox series.
Beltran was very impressive in the playoffs before his signing. Now you want to trade him and say his contract is too much. LOL.
again…
you have..no clue
When I saw the figure of 85 million over 5 years, I actually took that as a positive. Scott Boras never really gets the ridiculous amount that he initially speaks of for his clients. Manny is definitely coming down to a contract of at least three years, with an option for a 4th year, probably close to 60 million. You can write that down right now. The real question is what team is going to crack and guarantee that 4th year.
I’m not so convinced that Manny will bring down the clubhouse environment.
I would welcome him on the team not just because he’s a phenomenal ballplayer but because I actually enjoy his antics. Baseball should be entertaining.
Agreed, I have no problem with Manny. I am just not so sure he should be our top priority.
Double agreed.
lol tell that to jimmy rollins
Our top priority is the bullpen, and Manny second…
I want Manny on the Mets, but NOT for 5 years! Sorry. What happened to Pedro is going to happen to Manny– we all know he is good, but he will be declining in the next few years because of his age. Save the $$…
agreed although he does not show any real signs of declining tho.
True, it’s still really risky. I would do 3 years with obtainable options for the last 2. That’s about it. And still I am not sure how high up on the list Manny would be.
i like that blueprint for a contract with manny…i hope he bites..that would be the best deal for us as well.
The important difference being that we all knew pedro’s shoulder was hanging on a string when we signed him.
If delgado is back dont bring this guy…….. Delgado is a piece of sht. Believe me hes a bad person in the club house. If we have manny and delgado on this team, forget it we will not go anywhere.
85mil, overrated. No way i would pay him that much. He’s too old to be given a contract for that much.
do you play for the mets…..
I think you have to at least be 16 before you can play right?
There you go again real ….. insulting people that disagree with you. It seems YOU are the child on this site.
geez no sense of humor….buddy how would we trust 1985 to know that delgado is bad for the club if he himself did not play nor plays for the mets….chill out dwright
No I just like facts. You can’t prove at all that Delgado is a piece of sht. Unless he melts when it rains?
actually MrBill,
I completely disagree with you. thereal is one of the more levelheaded people on this site.
This team (Omar) NEVER learns. The idea is to get YOUNGER. This makes me sick.
agreed but out of the LF available this year..hard to make a case against manny even with his age as the best option available. I believe omar is intent on getting younger based on his protectivness of fmart but it wont hurt to bring manny in for a few years until fmart is ready to take over….just of course not at that price.
Yes, and you can still get younger at both 1st and 2nd base … and if that’s the case, Manny is fine in left field for 3-4 years.
Why not convert F-Mart to a first baseman this year in the minors and see how he does?
Looks like the Marlins will be making moves getting rid of their arbitration players. I wonder if the Mets would be interested in any of them.
I am going to look for myself but if you have a list handy, who would that include?
Aaron Heilman for Josh Willingham?
This is from MLB Trade Rumors:
The Marlins are one of the intriguing storylines of the upcoming offseason. The general sense is that they’ll shop Jacobs, Uggla, Willingham, Hermida, Olsen, and Gregg. Those hitters accounted for more than a third of the team’s plate appearances this year. The Marlins want to rebuild the team based on pitching, speed, and defense for ‘09.
Best I can figure out it would be the following
Gregg, would have 1 more year of arbitration eligible.
Amezaga, 2 more years
Treanor, 2 more years
Uggla, 1st year
Ross, 1st year
Olson, 1st year of arbitration
Willingham, 1st year
Hermida, 1st year
Jacobs, 1st year.
So I could see them really wanting to move some of these guys. That’s a lot of pay raises.
hm maybe we can cash in on one of those guys..maybe two
I’d rather sign Pat Burrell and one of Sabathia or K-Rod. Manny is a flake.
We need manny desperately, but not at that price!! A winner, who knows how to hit in the CLUTCH and perhaps we can keep the core together….. Perhaps 3 years 60….. We are losing Pedro’s and hopefully delgado’s contracts off the bat…. Sign Manny!!
I would never want Pat Burrell on this team. I’m sure the asking price will be in the $13-15MM range. No thanks. Spend the $$ and get Manny.
exactly ‘09, Manny is twice the player and a much bigger presence in any lineup.
I’ll give you an offseason plan, first things first you pick up
Delgado’s option and then promptly look to TRADE HIM. We’ve got to shake up the leadership of this team and since we can’t touch the core (I sound like Francessa)of Wright, Reyes, and Beltran then Delgado’s gotta go. Reyes and Wright need to finally step it up and take over this clubhouse.
Where do we ship Delgado too? How bout this for a suggestion? Send him to Oakland along with Heilman and Nick Evans for Huston Street. Oakland gets a big bat in their lineup ala Frank Thomas, Heilman gets his chance to prove hes a starter and Nick Evans could develop into an everyday player for them either in the OF or 1B. That way we
don’t have to waste money on Krod who is a Tommy John surgery waiting to happen. Replace Delgado at 1B with Murph, the thought of him ever being competent defensively at 2b is a pipe dream. His footwork is terrible, did we not see him in the OF. You think he’s gonna be able to play 2nd and turn double plays?
Dump Castillo, if you can somehow pry Byrnes out of Arizona
that would be great, if not, just get rid of him and eat the money,
there’s really no other choice. Sign Orlando Hudson to replace Castillo and plug him in the 2 hole. Solid hitter, Solid defense, supposedly a good clubhouse guy. LF, give Fmart a chance, maybe sign a Juan Riveraor bring back Tatis to platoon with him. Offer Church arbitration, give him a chance to prove the first 2 months of the season weren’t a fluke.
2009 Lineup:
1. Reyes
2. Hudson
3. Wright
4. Beltran
5. Church
6. Murphy
7. Fmart/Rivera/Tatis
8. Schneider/Castro (I wouldn’t mind an upgrade but there’s really
nothing out there).
I know, lots of lefties in that lineup. Manny would look GREAT wedged in the middle, but very risky.
Rotation? Let Ollie walk, Borris is his agent, he’s gonna want a
monster contract and Ollie is too much of a mental midget to be trustedwith a long term deal for big bucks. We need to rid this team of as many mentally weak players as possible His replacement? Derek Lowe, he may be older than Ollie but he’ll come cheaper, he nevers gets hurt (7 straight years of 32+ starts) he’s got playoff experience, he’s won a
World Series, won ever clinching game for the Sox in 2004, and he’s asinkerball pitcher which will serve him well at Citi Field which will have the same dimensions at Shea. Give Niese a shot as the #5, kids got
a nasty curveball.
Bullpen? Everybody goes except for Smith, Duaner, and Ayala who could be a very good setup man like he was in Was. Give the young guys like Parnell and Kunz a chance. Take a look at Jeremy Affeldt and Brandon Lyon who was money as a setup guy for Arizona 2 years ago.
Sign me up Omar
I agree except Manny being a risk…… Well, five years 85 mil, no way, but if they can get him for 3, with options he can realistically obtain, Manny is a must…
wheres your big bat..beltran..church…and you put murphy probably our best “hitter” in the 6hole?
Agreed, this lineup might be one big bat short. A 3-4-5 of Wright, Manny, Beltran is awfully tempting. Then maybe you let Church walk and put Fmart in Right. Problem is would the Wilpons be willing to pony up for Manny, O-Dog, and Lowe?
And I get your point but I wouldn’t exactly call Murph our best “hitter” just yet. So you’d rather put Murph 2nd and move O-Dog to the bottom of the order?
eh..good point.. i would go about the offseason a different way but odog would serve no purpose in the 6th hole..gotta leave him in the 2. I would i guess switch church and muphy and have a RSRLR…makes it tougher on pitchers and bullpen imo.
Agreed. I don’t like his lineup in the middle at all– it’s a bit soft. Keep Delgado in there. If you want to add O’Dog, fine, and then keep Murphy in LF.
I say run at Manny, keep Delgado, try Murphy at 2B; if Murphy doesn’t work then you plan to have him either at 1B in 2010 or move him back to 3B so that Wright can move over to 1B.
So where are we getting a closer then from guys, are we all fine with K-Rod and his arm that’s about to fall off?
No proof at all that Krod has ANY arm troubles.
How bout his drop in velocity? How bout his ridiculous workload this year breaking the save record coupled with his violent delivery? Is that really a guy you want to give 5 years 75 million too? I don’t and I’m hoping that Omar is smart enough not too and will get creative with a trade instead.
Drop in velocity was on purpose. He and his pitching coach changed his delievery to lessen stress on his arm. Also, they talked about backing off some on the FB. Do some research. Also, although he saved a lot of games he was not in an extreme amount of games nor did he pitch a lot of innings. He was not at the top of either catagory.
Why the hell would Beane even consider the that trade? Pretty much everyone in that trade is worthless to them. Delgado is expensive and gone after this year, why would Oakland want anything to do with them, they ahve their first basemen of the future in Daric Barton and probably outfielders so Evans isn’t much to them either and Heilman is arbitration eligible and a lot older than Street and not 1/3 as good.
Also a line-up with Beltran and Church as the 4 & 5 hitters isn’t going to get us anywhere, especially with our current manager.
How valuable is Street really to them anyway when they have 3 guys making peanuts who could step in and fill his role (Casilla, Devine, Ziegler) and Daric Barton didn’t exactly prove himself ready with his .220 batting average this year.
this plan is the best one offered…….the future of baseball is:
youth
defense
small ball
a dominant bullpen
balanced lineups
balanced rotation
Why would ANYONE not wanna get Manny??? The guy will give us a chance to win the world series for the next 3 years…if his production is off so what, if hes anywhere near what he is now he’ll take us to teh world series period. Its basically like paying for a trip to teh world series and idk why anyone wouldnt want him…
lol getting manny does not stamp a ticket into the ws my friend..manny can hit 100 hrs it wont matter if the bulpen cant seal the deal
thats funny because even with this year’s bullpen this team still should have made the playoffs….if Manny was on our team theres no question we would have easily made the playoffs by prob like 3 games
really…based on what definitive evidance that in fact by having manny would mean we would be in the postseason…please also include the pieces we would have had to trade to aquire manny inthe first place…oh thats right there is none..your speculating
Dodger’s were a sub 500 team and added Manny and they are now in hte NLCS…u people are crazy…Manny is a one of a kind Jeter type player that hits homers…adding a player like this to a team taht sux and is full of collapser’s is a no brainer….
If Krod was on the team we may have made it by …….
Manny is a free agent dirtsanchez…you dont need to give up anyone except cash…are u serious??
and THE REAL…yeah wed be in the playoffs if we had Krod but NOT the world series..Manny gives us a shot at winning it all..not KROD
“Manny is a one of a kind Jeter type player that hits homers”
-lmao @ jeter type…are you hoping jeter will read this and give you some free g2?
“collapser’s”
-did you just make this word up??
“Manny is a free agent dirtsanchez…you dont need to give up anyone except cash…are u serious??”
-yes manny is a free agent THIS OFFSEASON..my response was to your comment:
“if Manny was on our team theres no question we would have easily made the playoffs by prob like 3 games”
-which would mean that the mets would have had to aquire manny from the redsox during the tradedeadline..so again im asking you to show some definitive evidance that supports your position that had the mets aquired manny we would have made the playoffs by 3 games…and for ****and giggles throw in the trade pieces that would have aquired manny….you cant because your speculating.
im sayng hypothetically if he was on our team we would have made the playoffs which is COMPLETLEY true i dont need to explain anything….my point for saying that we woulda made the playoffs is my reason for adding him to our team next year…its a No brainer dirtysanchez and im a more knowlegeable baseball person than you. I mean if you have a chance to lockup a player as bigtime as manny theres no reason to keep someone like Nick Evans in the OF
Ok so you are saying that with our current pen, we could have made the WS with Manny and would have had a better chance than we would have with a real closer? That makes no sense at all. Manny could have scored 10 runs by himself and the pen would have still given it up.
thats actually not at all what im saying…you can obviously address the bullpen AND manny…why would i ever want the mets to get manny and not do anything w the bullpen…and my point about manny and the WS as sumes that we will have a fixed bullpen next year
“im a more knowlegeable baseball person than you”
-lol based on what..just the fact that you would say something like this proves otherwise……
“im sayng hypothetically if he was on our team we would have made the playoffs which is COMPLETLEY true i dont need to explain anything…”
-lol first you didnt say you were speaking hypotheically…second yes you do need to explain why you would think manny would make us a playoff bound team when we had 11 bullpen arms in september and 30 blown saves this year…While we did have offensive bumps in the road..the argument is our bullpen did us in more than the offense. So go ahead im sure his rings would put us in the postseason for sure.
“I mean if you have a chance to lockup a player as bigtime as manny theres no reason to keep someone like Nick Evans in the OF”
-agreed but im not going to sacrifice fixing the rest of the team for him. We have many areas to address and as heilman stated earlier our offense isnt that bad compaired to the nl and thats just with our squad. We need help with sp and bullpen first before we can address an offensive upgrade. Just remember manny is 37.
“Manny was on our team theres no question we would have easily made the playoffs by prob like 3 games”
Thus I responded that we would have made the playoffs if we had Krod.
You responded
“yeah wed be in the playoffs if we had Krod but NOT the world series..Manny gives us a shot at winning it all..not KROD”
Thus according to your logic this season we would have had a better chance of making the WS with Manny than with a real closer.
You have no idea what you are talking about and continue to flip around everywhere like a fish.
where is everyone getting the report that delgado is bad for the clubhouse or does not provide leadership….
Did anyone hear Jerry Manuel’s conference call when he got the contract extension? He made a point to say Delgado is a leader in the clubhouse.
That’s obviously because he wants Delgado on his side, as he saw what happened to Willie when Delgado is yoru enemy…
True, but that makes me think they aren’t really planning on trading him.
This would be an awful move. Mets need a youth movement.
ur wrong
it would be wrong if they signed manny for that contract…
Very true, this regardless of IF we decide is the best move, can not be more than a 3 year deal. You can’t be serious having Manny under contract at age 40+
Manny’s contrat would be JUST AS MUCH AS WE ARE PAYING BELTRAN..except Mannys a MUCH better hitter and more clutch and has won more rings
um..beltran is younger..plays a hellova better defense than manny and can steal….yes manny has more rings and more power but why should we have to pay more for an OLDER player..i thought that was the problem no……like i said manny wouldnt be bad..just not for that amount of money.
why pay money for an older player???maybe because Manny is WAY better player than Beltran regardless of his AGE…if hes still proven to be way more valuable of a hitter than beltran and backs up his talk by having huge playoff games…he deserves as much money or more
and btw Beltran doesnt steal anymore…what did he have like 13 SBs this year…hes done running…
Or 25 SB, but close!
lol ok first of all please do some research before posting bogus statements..carlos beltran had 25 sb this year..manny only had 3. Offensivly, yes the edge does go to manny no question but defensivly no question does the edge go to beltran. Manny has 6 years over beltran in age so yea i dont want to overspend on aging talent when offense is not our biggest problem.
What in the world does what we are paying Beltran have to do with it anyway? That’s money already spent. We are paying Wagner 10 million next year does that justify paying Fuentes 10 million+?
does anyone else’s head hurt upon reading “airfeet”’s postings?
mine does lol…
shouldn’t you be at school?
why people think that if we sign manny, we wont address the bullpen issue?. sign him and you still have money to sign good guys for the bullpen.
the mets have to sign a big hitter for the middle of the lineup. I want a new superstar, I am kind of tired of seeing wright,beltran and delgado as the big 3 RBI men
agreed
double agreed
I am not opposed to Manny. I am just not sure I would rank him ahead of vacant closer, starter, and 2nd base issues.
I would probably go
Closer
Starter
Manny
2nd base
Yeah, I agree as well. It bites when 3 of your players are in the top 13 in RBI’s. Also bites when two of your hitters are 1-2 in hits in the national league. And bites as well when 3 or your players are in the top 6 in runs in the majors. Oh, and having a the guy with the third most homers in the majors…how boring!
You know what stinks???? The flippin bullpen….thats what I was tired of seeing!!!
This Marlins thing actually intrigues me. I don’t know if we could still get them to trade with us but there are a few opprotunities there.
According to the Miami Herald they will move most of their arbitration guys and remake the team on speed and defense.
Uggla is a likely candidate. Hmm. They said they would be looking for a speedy corner OF to replace him. Hello Fmart?
Gregg will also not be brought back. I would rather go with Gregg than Fuentes.
At least we should be looking at lesser deals like Evans and a prospect for Willingham. That gives them a guy to play 1B as they will not be bringing Jacobs back either.
A lot of posibilities there.
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Uggla
Murphy/Willingham
Church/Willingham
Schnieder/Castro
That looks pretty good.
i agree about some of those names and their availability but i would not want to trade fmart to a division rival.
uggla is a DH, not a 2B
F-Mart isn’t exactly a “speedy” corner outfielder. And besides … you need to get something a lot better than Uggla if you’re going to trade him.
Your Evans idea is better.
No on Uggla. And definitely no to Gregg.
Is there anyone on the Marlins (maybe Hanley, but we have Jose, maybe Maybin) for whom you would trade FMart? Nope…
In the right package yes. I am just not THAT impressed by Fmart. I am affraid he will go down the Milledge road of never living up to his hype here. Granted he is still incredibly young and may prove me wrong but if we could get a package of arbitration guys from the Marlins for him that improve many holes then why not?
If I could get Uggla, Willingham, Gregg and Amezaga for Fmart, Evans, Awful Reyes and a low level prospect? Sure I would do it.
I’d trade F-Mart in a package for Peavy. Not for these guys you mentioned.
Difference is Mikey these guys are actually available and I don’t see Peavy being.
Available or not … it’s still a bad idea.
the day Dan Uggla becomes the Mets 2B is the day i stop watchin baseball.
I swear people were saying Johan= automatic world series birth last year. And obviously that didn’t happen, so now we’re going to do the same thing with Manny?
Gina ur crazy…do you not watch Manny play…every team hes on makes the playoff/goes to the world series….EVERY TEAM
Not this “people” were said that. Johan was huge, but still have a core of offensive players who shrink in the clutch…
because manny is a god gina…didnt you get the memo
Gina, you make really good posts on here all the time but you’re way off base on Manny.
Spot on, Gina.
I’m in the ‘I love Manny camp but no thanks’. Not for 5 years. 3 years is a risk. He brings nothing to the defensive table – and how much ground can we keep asking Beltran to cover out there?
We don’t know how long his bat speed will continue. Anyone who thinks this is a guarantee look at Delgado for all of ‘07 and half of ‘08.
And then there is the whole ‘Manny being Manny thing’. Just what the Mets need….Not!
delgado sux compared to Manny though
You contradicted your own point.. Look at Delgado for half of 08….. The most recent half… He was hitting MVP quaility…
Mannys 2nd half was actually muhc better than Delgado…lets not forget he hit .400 w the dodgers since july 31…what delgado hit .295 2nd half of the season??
Don’t understand your point. I said ‘half of ‘08′.
Meaning, Delgado was a power hitter until ‘07. Production fell off on ‘07. Remained off half of ‘08. Put up great numbers second half.
I like Delgado. Not ‘picking’ on him. Making a comparison on what can happen to an aging power hitter.
Three years puts Manny approaching 40. 5 years – it’s just flat out ridiculous.
Everything is a risk though. Signing K-Rod for 5-6 years to be your closer is a risk. Signing Sabathia for 7 years is also a risk. Both those pitchers can break down. You can’t use “risk” as a factor. Risk is a given in any signing.
Manny is a prolific offensive player and a winner.
eh, this suit is blacknot.
Pause.
eh, this suit is NOT BLACK!!!!
my brozer billow, he has a very funny eh reeeetardation.
Manny should visit New York and go to Omar’s office, point to his crotch and say, “you will never get this, you will never get this…la la lala la.”
Very Niiiice. Where do they install the _____ magnet?
Yo, what’s up vanilla face?
What “wit it” vanilla face?!! We need someone to post our blek esses for the night.
One time, I make sexy time wiss my mazzer in law.
High Fivvvve!
Eh, should I be pohliite?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOT
Eh, this is my neighbor. He pain in my a$$holes.
(singing) “khazakstan, is the greatest country in the world. all other countries are run by little girls…”
If we really wanted Manny we should have traded for him during the season. Minaya thought it was too much of a risk, then he saw what he did for LA and now he wants him.
Remember people Pitching wins championships. We can always find another bat.
Not of that caliber you can’t
Really? Hasn’t seemed to be too easy for Omar to find that “bat.”
I’m reluctantly on the “get Manny” bandwagon.
I realize that if he gets a 5 year deal, years 3 and 4 are going to be disasters.
But for years 1-3, there is absolutely NOBODY else who can take the pressure and spotlight almost completely off Choker Reyes and Choker Wright, and probably drag them over the finish line by personality alone.
Manny is not your ordinary 36 year old ballplayer. He has not slowed down and he is a Hall of Fame player. He should produce for another three years and for the cost, that will be worth it to the Mets. He also is very clutch.
Also, signing him will give the Mets a little more latitude in trading players. For example, if they have his bat, they can trade off Church for some bullpen help and put a rookie or young guy in right field. He may not be a perfect all around player but he can still produce with the bat. If you have him hitting behind Delgado or Wright those guys will have monster years.
And quite frankly, I am for the most part against the Mets being old, but in this case, I am not against it. Manny is not your ordinary player, he is by far one of the most feared bats in the game.
I totally agree with Mingo Manny is NOT your avg. 37 yr old
in Manny we get the PREMIRE rbi man of this generation
we get what many are only now starting to realize that Manny Ramirez may very well be the greatest right handed hitter to ever play the game.
Though it is a valid concern (a 5 yr deal ) a contract can be crafted to bennefit both parties.
Manram turns the Mets into THE BEAST OF THE EAST offensively he is the right handed bat , the bad boy persona, the one guy that turns the Mets lineup into the MOST FEARED LINEUP IN THE MAJORS, with Manram we go DEEP INTO OCT FOR THE NEXT 3 OR 4 YRS.
One more thing, he needs to bat 3rd in the order to maximize his rbi output.
Some of you guys are blind. Manny is everything that has plagued this team in the past: older guys who get big contracts and their skills deteriarate, or get injured.
We’ll go out and get Manny at a 4-5 yr deal. They’ll make the playoffs next year, lose in the first or 2nd round and in the middle of yr two he’ll be injured and for the next 2-3 yrs we’ll be screaming about his 20+ million /yr that is handicapping this team from getting the next big star.
It’s a vicious cycle, but you some of you r too stupid to realize it. Do the Rays or Sox have a Manny or Santana right now?
lol these would be the same to scream at omar and want his head if your reality would play out. I hope omar never reads the comments on this site and take notes or we would be in big trouble.
I swear its about making the biggest splash with some of these Met fans. We jumped in the Santana pool and splashed the whole league. How did that work out for us?
We need to address the minor bit parts and secondary roles, not add more stats.
So rigsay … are you totally against the mets signing any one of the big 4 free agents this off season? K-Rod, Sabathia, Manny, Teixeira?
Or is it that you just don’t like Manny, but signing one of the other 3 “big splashes” would be ok in your book?
Just curious.
I can see both sides.
I would have no problems with signing 2 of the 3 and going with scrubs and small trades to fix the others.
Or
I could see going with a trade for Holiday, signing Everyday Eddie and Juan Cruz for closer, Lowe for the rotation…..
Yes Mikey FF I am against Tex, Krod, Sabathia and Manny.
I am in the minority of Met fans who believe we have to stop being short-sighted and build a smart team for the future (HELLO Boston).
The answer is not dumping all your eggs in one basket (Santana last year) (Manny/Sabathia/Tex this yr). We added a 140 mil chip and had 1 more win.
I’m for building parts for the future. Trying to further inflate the payroll in hopes of grabbing the best at every position is not the answer.
Has anyone watched the Yankees these past 8 yrs? If your satisfied being competitive and making the playoffs, enjoy it, but I wanna buld a nucleus which can win it all
Great points. I am not opposed at all of signing a big name now and then. But it gets ridiculous when people want to trade Church because he is not an allstar, get rid of Delgado and sign Tex. Sign Krod and CC blah blah. They just take up space on the board.
Again, most likely the Mets will sign 1 (Yes ONLY 1) type A starter this season. Which 1 will it be?
agreed. The new trend in baseball is to build around young talent with complimentary pieces. We need our gm to follow that trend
Thanks. I actually think Manny can still be an extremely productive player until 40, but I’m still not willing to wager on it. I love the guy, but there is a lot of history in baseball and that history isn’t particularly kind to older players– Mets fans should know this. I don’t care how “unique” Manny is, when you reach a certain age things begin to change, whether it’s due to naturally aging or the fact that you just aren’t going to back from injuries the same way you used to. I know Manny has yet to show the signs, but I would be extremely wary.
Exactly, not to mention that according to reports he wants years 41 and 42. No way do I do that.
This ain’t the steriod era, teams are winning with young players who stay healthy and aren’t afraid of the big spot, Defense, pitching and a balanced team win trophies, not overpaying an injury riddled vet at every position.
Manny will be a liability in the outfield and just wait till the guy is upset about something and starts pouting. The dodgers are a bunch of young impressionable kids, where he can be THE man. The Mets have lots of big personalities and “stars”, which Manny could have a problem dealing with.
Did anyone watch the september collapse?? Again?? How many times did the offense let the team down?? I agree anything more than 3 years is crazy, but we need a winner who can hit clutch… Especially a right handed bat…
yeah to me getting Manny is a no brainer…like i said before…if manny was on our team this septemerb we woulda made the playoffs by like 3 games at least
if
Back to this again. If Krod had been on the team we would have made the playoffs by…..
If Holiday had been on the team…..
If Fuentes had been on the team…..
If Wagner wasn’t injured……
If Lowe had been pitching for us….
If we had gotten Roger Clemens instead of the Sox…..
LOL.
You can not play that game.
No. Not one single person who posts here on Metsblog.com discussing Major League Baseball’s New York Mets witnessed September.
I guess they forgot what happened then, huh?
Umm, not as many as the bullpen did the last 2 seasons?
Manny and Johan guarantee a playoff spot.
LOL. I thought Johan alone did?
Show of hands:
Who here is comfortable relying on the Reyes-Wright core to get this team where it has to go?
They need Manny to cover up for the choking.
Or perhaps he can show them how to win and hit in the clutch……
Not me. Those two are the core biggest chockers…
Sign Manny!
Writing off a couple of 25 year olds, whom have yet to reach their prime, careers’ as chokers. Way to go man! Because every kid that comes up and puts up monster stats his first few seasons automatically becomes the leader of a team with many veterans and gets a hit every single time a runner is in scoring position! Please give me the names of players 25 years and younger, that put up similar numbers to this duo, always get the clutch hits and are already the unquestioned leaders of their teams?
Not to mention what Wright’s “Clutch” stats were last year.
Derek Jeter, Pedroia, Longoria, Upton for starters just off the top of my head…
Wow, I did not realize how young Jeter was.
Longoria and Upton are not the leaders of the Rays. I would also say there is A LOT less pressure coming up in Tampa playing to 8,000 people a night. They also benefit of being on a much better team than Wright and Reyes did in their 1st full seasons. Let’s also see them do it for more than 1 season….
I’m just saying it is dumb to expect these guys to do everything when they have yet to hit their primes.
Yeah, because you can’t watch the playoffs and see any young kids coming through in clutch spots…
And Wright/Reyes aren’t kiddies. These guys are vets at this point.
Vets with a history of choking.
Wright and Reyes are what their resume says they are.
It is a sad commentary on those 2 that so many feel Manny is necessary to win.
You’re incredibly dense.
I mean according to some of you guys there are, like, only 8 “clutch” players in the game and you like to write guys off before they are even in their prime. I mean remember a few years back when Utley and Rollins were younger and the Phillies would miss the playoffs by a game or 2 every year and now they are guttiest guys ever?
Murphy is STILL stranded on 3rd courtesy of D Wright
- Manny takes away the stress on reyes and especially wright.
-Manny has been consistently healthy and does not look he is slowing down in a rapid pace.
- we will not have attitude problems as long as Manuel refers Manny as Gangsta. How could Manny hate our coach?
- The man is clutch.
I’m game for four years if he can win a world series in one of them.
that pretty much sums it up….Manny is the best chance for any team to win the WS…such a force in the lineup
Would Manny being on the Yankee’s next season with their terrible rotation give them an automatic WS berth?
oh and as far as him being a defensive liability. Well we were ok with Tatis and Murphy taking that spot. Why not Manny?
But we weren’t. They cruised for awhile but their ineptitdue came thru in the end. The play Tatis got hurt on was a catchable ball for a good outfielder and a big reason why we lost that important september game.
Murphy made multiple gaffes the last week of the season and hurt it (Endy anyone?)
you would prefer endys bat over murphys..no question endy’s defense is better than muphy.
That’s a tough decision there. I just wonder if it would have been better to have Murphy’s bat on the bench and Endy in the OF? Who knows.
yep and unfotunatly thats the problem with murph. You need his bat in there but his defense is lacking..i just with the mets would make up their mind reg his future defensive wise OF,3B,2B,1B….Bottom line we need his bat in the lineup but we need some sort of direction with this kid.
Kinda interesting that Manuel wants to find a permanent place for him but we don’t have a clue where that will be. A lot will depend on where he plays in fall ball this season. I know he is listed as 1B but that does not mean much yet.
I usually agree with you Mookie. I am not opposed to Manny but for some reason that 4th and 5th year are getting me. I just keep thinking about all the bad contracts we have given to guys that are older and then magically breakdown with the Mets.
If I could get him for 3/48 with 2 18.5 million options then sure.
Still I am just affraid that the Mets will ONLY do this and still not fix the bullpen and rotation because of the money spent.
If they can lose Delgados 13 million, and pedros 13+ that’s a lot coming off the books…… If they can deal Shoenweisse that’s another huge chunk…. Not sure the deal on Wagner re his insurance…..
wags contract was uninsured..we are on the hook for 10 mil with no closer at the moment.
That hurts…
You can’t just lose Delgado’s 12 million. It will cost you 4 million just to lose it.
You also have to replace 2 SP a closer and reshape the entire pen.
I look at it this way. Only one team wins it all, and everyone tries to get someone. Heck Tampa Bay got cliff Floyd and Percival. some work out and some don’t. It worked out when everyone outside the Mets thought Keith Hernandez was finished or even Gary Carter. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. As far as the Bullpen, they know that if they don’t bring they do something, the fans will boo in the opener of Citi field. They don’t want that.
not mention a repeat of the last 2 years…
Like it or not Dirty, I think that is the number one reason that we will pick up Krod. I am not sure if he is the best option but if we make a splash at all I think that is where it will be.
My only fear with Manny is that the Phillies might be stupid enough to give Manny 5 years.
I’m going to go with the emergence of Longoria, the continued development of Upton and Crawford along with a solid year from the starting rotation and a great middle relief as the reasons why the Rays did well. In fact Percival was on/off the DL.
I like Cliff and I think he does bring some much needed “veteran presence”, especially to a team as young as the Rays, but he’s kind of like David Eckstein, he just happens to be on the right teams and the right times and is a likeable player.
Crawford had a terrible year for him. I still wonder if they will pick up his option and if they do if they would consider trading him?
i agree and im leaning toward omar gettind krod(that should satisfy his splash fix). Geez your right…the phillies would be missing burell and can you imagine howard and ramirez on the same team…scary. Well look at it this way im sure we wont be the only teams included in the ramiez sweepstakes..including LA if they go the distance.
LA is an intriguing one for Manny. Do you think they can continue to pay Jones, Pierre and Manny for 1 spot in the OF? They have Lowe coming off the books as well. Will they make a big push for CC and let Manny walk?
Im sure they will kick the tires on CC but from what ive heard(i could be wrong on this) but they have a good farm and im sure they will just go with that. Manny undoubtably changes that offense and nobody can deny that. I think LA will take a looooong look at manny before they make a decision to let him walk. Having manny/either/kemp i think that would make jones and piere expendable..trade bait even imo
Problem with Jones and Pierre as trade bait is that their contracts are as bad or worse than Castillo. They won’t be easy to trade at all.
I just think that with CC’s comments about the West Coast that LA will be a major player for CC.
I think the LA Times reported that they would rather go after C.C. than Manny. LA loves players raised in the west coast. I like C.C. a lot but he’s not clutch in the playoffs ( I’m not counting his past game on three days rest though).
what did CC say about LA?
Rigth now he is posturing and saying the right things about everyone. He did say that for NY he would have to see if his family wanted to move across country. So that either means he wants to stay on the West Coast or the Yankee’s are going to take it up the rear.
Well thats the only negative thing about Manny is the fact Scorr Boras will make his client seem like he is the best player in baseball, just like he is asking a price range for Oliver Perez as if he is an Ace pitcher.
Maybe we can get a 2 for one deal? Anyone know if a team has EVER signed 2 Boras clients in the same offseason?
Not sure. There are a lot of Boras cleints, David Newhan for example.
But if you’re thinking in terms of superstar (real or percieved) players that cash in for a big payday, I don’t know.
I’d have to imagine if anyone did it’s going to be the Yankees, Red Sox or Cubs might be the best bets.
Speaking of the Cubs, you think they would want to trade Soriano and Marquis? They would fit in quite nicely in LF and #5 starters.
I have been asking the same question for a little while. I think we could try to get them to take Castillo back in that deal as well. Castillo has a bad contract and Soriano’s looks pretty bad too. You can just tell that Piniella hates him.
If the Cubs fans ran the team Soriano and Fukudome would be off the team.
Can Soriano play 2nd base still? I could see Jimmy Rollins complaining about his “hop” as showboating. He’d be intriguing in the 2nd half of the order maybe 5th or 6th. One of the talking heads on some sports webpage nailed it when they said he’s been miscast as a leadoff hitter. I don’t know who we’d trade and whether we could get them to keep some of his salary.
I wouldn’t be too warm to taking on Jason Marquis, but considering we’ve used the likes of Brian Lawrence, Dave Williams, Jason Vargas, Brandon Knight, et al as our spot starter/5th starter I suppose it could be worse.
As most GM’s will say, you don’t build just for a 5-man rotation over the course of a 162 game season, you realistically have to think about 7-8 that can make starts.
Very true about the rotation. I would think that would take a lot of pressure off Niese. Allow him to be that #6 starter that is always needed.
Johan, Lowe, Pelfrey, Maine, Marquis is not a bad rotation at all.
The thing about Soriano is he has one of the most absurd contracts ever given to a player his age and for his level of production. Was this the 2nd year of his 8 year deal or the 1st?
6 years and 114 million left. I would guess that would mean the Mets would dump Castillo and Show on them. Thus making it 6 years 94 million?
I think the Mets should at least investigate it. I could live with Marquis even coming out of the bullpen. Soriano can either slide to 2nd or stay in left while Murph attacks 2B.
Here is another interesting thought. I don’t like Huston Street at all, but how about a deal including Murphy (and not much else) for Street? Murph seems like a Billy Beane type of guy and he is under control for some time. Street isn’t very old(maybe late 20s?), but has been a closer for a few years. It will save us some $ and one of our allotment of Type A free agents. Then Omar could set his sights on two of O-Dog, Manny, and CC.
Just a thought.
For some reason I would rather hang on to Murphy right now. Don’t get me wrong I am not ready to name him the second coming but I want to see what he does in a full year. I would think that Beane still wants more than Street is worth. Also, with the fact that guys better than Street can be had in FA without giving up that kind of talent. Now if it was the Jays dumping BJ Ryan’s salary for Evans or something silly like that then….
Manny is the only one who can show Wright and Reyes how to win.
Those 2 are stat padders, nothing more.
Wow, that’s some interesting stuff right there.
and manny isnt?
Manny is a winner.
Wright and Reyes? Chokers.
More brilliant analysis from Furioso, ladies and gentlemen.
How’d all those pretty stats help out in the clutch again?
Dear Omar
1. Bullpen first- We need a legitimate closer, then everyone else besides Joe Smith should go.
2. Then Rotation- Pedro is looking bad, Maine will be recovering from his surgery, and Perez is a free agent. We need one or two more above average starters to bolster the rotation.
And lastly 3. Offense/Defense- Get rid of Luis Castillo and get us a new second baseman. Also sign Delgado to a 1 year contract, and then sign an outfielder.
Manny shouldn’t be on our importance list until after this occurs, I don’t think he will save our ball club when our bullpen couldn’t pitch its way out of a paper bag.
Thank you for your reason…….This is the exact order that Omar should follow.
Im still leaning towards no on manny. I’d consider it under special circumstances such as Krod already locked up along w/ Perez as a non-A free agents but only 3 + option years worth around 16-18. I dont see his tools diminishing the way someone like Nomar Garciapara’s did. He’s very professional and works hard unlike the thoughts of many portrayed. But I would prefer Eric Brynes much more for obvious reasons such as after 2 years of brynes, Fmart might be ready. In my book, Manny…is an almost no. But possible.
“Manny Ramirez is the best hitter of his generation, has won championships, and thrived in the tight media spot” circa 2008
“Pedro Martinez is the best pitcher of his generation, has won championships, and thrive in the tight media spot” circa 2005
Then add in Glavine, Alou, Castillo, El Duque, Wagner. Every single one has been hurt, a shell of their former selves, or both. None of them has stepped up int he big spot. None of them carried us to anything, and most were not even on the one playoff roster the Mets have had in 8 years.
Very true Metsmad. Again, I am not against Manny it’s just I am not for him over a true closer, 2 SP a remade pen and 2nd base.
same here…….manny is a luxury. the clutch hitting has more to do with the fact that our lineup was VERY unbalanced, and the fact that the bullpen blew so many leads the offense was constantly pressured into executing, and the fact that they had a lot to prove after the collapse.
What do you think about my idea of adding Roberts and Brynes to the lineup?
i like byrnes a lot.
Jon Heyman doesn’t have real sources. He makes things up.
I still like the idea of trading for Roberts from the O’s. They are not going to be able to resign him and he would be perfect for the 2 hole. Trade Castillo and Heilman for Byrnes and you have a nice rounded offense.
Reyes, Roberts, Beltran, Delgado, Wright, Murphy/Byrnes, Church/Byrnes, Schnieder/Castro.
Oh and about this, those moves don’t really cost us any money. Thus we would still have money to improve the pen and SP.
also a good plan…..i’m a big fan of roberts.
What do you think it would take to get him.? He only has 1 more year left under arbitration.
i have no idea, but if you COULD get him, it allows you to sign two type A pitchers. Frankly Roberts or Hudson would be awesome.
actually over the last three years, hudson has been better, plus has the better glove, and the whole clubhouse thing. roberts is a great great option, but if you look at the splits, O-Dog has been real nice in the clutch the last 4 seasons: .297 RISP 2 out, .318 bases loaded. They are very similar players, but I think O-Dog is more valuable. Unfortunately he is a type A free agent.
Hudson’s numbers are just not enough for what he wants.
As for Roberts, I was thinking something like Niese, Evans and Awful Reyes?
doubt that would get you Roberts, and I wouldn’t give up Neise.
For all those in love with Hudson, go look at Brian Roberts stats. They blow Hudson’s away. The guy had close to a .380 OBP and 40 steals. You put him in our lineup and it is an automatic change.
btw, Juan Cruz is a type A free agent. so you can’t go after him, manny, and a closer…..basically if you are going to sign cruz, you might as well sign Krod.
I did notice that Cruz is a type A. As for Krod, it just depends on how it shakes out. I would still not mind if we could not get Krod to go with Cruz and Everyday Eddie. Yes it would cost us a type A but Cruz is worth it.
Then you could still sign Lowe and make a few trades.
Krod has better numbers though than Cruz, plus has the closer experience, and is 3 years younger.
Signing Cruz is a waste of a free agent. The Mets need a closer who will shut down everyone. That’s K-Rod. For our other pick it’s either Manny or Orlando Hudson. MetsyMad22 you’re starting to sway me towards Hudson haha. He’s younger and would be a vast improvement at second base. Question is what do we do with left field?
if cruz was a type B, i’d sign him in a SECOND. but if you are going to spend one of your two type A’s on a reliever, it might as well be on the closer with better numbers who is younger.
Left field is dependent on delgado……if gado is at 1B, then you put Murph in LF……if you trade delgado for a set up man, Murph at 1B and you either bring up FMart, or try for Holliday, or let pagan play.
5 years. He’ll be like Alou by the end of that. I think something like 3 years 55-60 mil would be more realistic.
i think three years at 80 mil or so is more likely
btw Heyman is on, and he said the Mets will consider Manny, but he is not sure it would actually happen.
Manny may be acceptable to me for three years at A Rod money.
He gave up two 20 million dollar options with the Dodgers so you’d think he’s after a bump up from that.
If you can somehow turn delgado into a few young arms like the yankees did with Sheffield it may all work out on the payroll.
Use Murph/Evans at 1st base and fill in the bullpen from the farm and the delgado deal.
I dont like the Krod talk. he seems to be an injury waiting to happen and most of the big successful closers in the game have been internally developed and not signed to big FA Contracts.
2009 New York Mets: Opening Day Roster
LINEUP:
REYES – ss
MURPHY – 2b
WRIGHT – 3b
DELGADO – 1b
BELTRAN – cf
HOLLIDAY – lf
CHURCH – rf
SCHNEIDER – c
BENCH:
Castro
Tatis
Anderson
Chavez
Uggla?
ROTATION:
Santana
Sabathia
Pelfrey
Maine
Neise
Bullpen:
K-Rod – cl
Stokes – su
Smith
Sanchez
Kunz
Ayala
____?
____?
RELEASE / TRADE:
El Duque
Martinez
Nixon
Perez
Alou
Castillo
Schoeneweis
Heilman
Feliciano
Burgos
Vargas (or put in bullpen)
Everyone should be watching the Wheelhouse tonight. Kevin Burkhardt says it is a no brainer for the Mets to get Manny. The Mets were 25th in baseball with RISP at .253 and Manny is .329 with RISP. He is clutch in the regular season and playoffs and the Mets dont period. He says it was their biggest problem and i agree. You can blow up the pen and sign a bunch of retreads and have a dominant bullpen without spending big money and go year to year that way. Manny and a couple of FA starters would put this team over the top. Forget about Omar making any trades because we dont have anyone that other teams want.
” Forget about Omar making any trades because we dont have anyone that other teams want.”
Sorry, before anyone jumps on me, i will correct myself and say that other teams dont want the players we are WILLING to trade away. Wright, Reyes, and Beltran arent going anywhere, so who else would anyone want in our lineup and give us something significant in return???
I agree…Manny is a NO brainer. I think this team can make the playoffs w/o him but I dont think this team can win a world championship without him.
price tag, age, and potential risks are WAY to high to consider manny. sign orlando hudson, make a play for CC, and FIX THE BULLPEN!!!!!!
but it doesnt matter what i think, omar has been in love with manny for a long time and hes a native new yorker. i have a gut feeling that its gonna happen whether peole like it or not. but also have a feeling that with no DH luxury its only a matter of time before his playing time becomes very limited because his body wont be able to hold up to playing almost everyday.
you’d have to be a fool not to want manny. get him and then husdon to play 2nd, and then a second tier closer (no k-rod, fuentes will do) and we’re fine. the bullpen will respond better next yr (only pen guy i’d get rid of is heilman).
MANNY = TROUBLE
Manny will be great until he doesn’t get his way. He brings nothing to the clubhouse, he is 100% selfish, and he brings tons of baggage.
Look at Boston and LA! Even in LA he is showing signs of “Manny being Manny” Its only a matter of time before the real Manny resurfaces.
I say get Matt Holliday, save the extra money and put it toward Sabathia and K-Rod and let some other team worry about Manny and his tons of baggage
NOMANNYNOMANNYNOMANNYNOMANNY