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In his most recent report for SI.com, Jon Heyman writes, “The Angels don’t seem as gung-ho to retain record-breaking closer Francisco Rodriguez as one might think.”
…this is a bit of a red flag to me, since the Angels have the money to bring him back…and so, when a team with money turns its back on one of its own a player, a player they know better than any other team in the league, it raises my eyebrows…or, they’re just playing coy with the market…
Heyman also reports on the Yankees interest in CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Derek Lowe; how the US economy could impact the free-agent market; the future of Jaime Moyer; and Padres RHP Jake Peavy, who, according to Heyman, ‘is expected to be available, as the Padres will likely scale back.’
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i agree with the argument that you arent getting anywhere dumping 15 mil a year for 5 years into an imported closer.
The next great closer has to come from the inside or great scouting
for a guy who choked his a$$ off in the playoffs this year.. I Agree…
Can I say something? Will someone please tell Omar
that he can’t sign anyone who will be in his 40’s at the end of the contract?
Will someone please tell Omar that DW and Jose still
could have 15 years to play yet?
Thank You.
wat about trading beltran for rowand, matt cain & a young power arm….u get a hard nose player in rowand, a quality young starter and a possible bullpen filler (plus some salary relief, hudson?)
Terrible post by Turd here with bad grammer and a crazy trade proposal…
Why would SF (a rebuilding team) trade a 24 year old power starting pitcher with a career ERA around 3.70 and a solid OF PLUS a “young power arm” for Beltran who is very good but will be 32 next year? No chance SF does that deal.
What the METS have to do is BRING ME BACK !
go back to the yankees
Yes Willie,
You can replace Jay Horowitz in the PR department
I can imagine the silent press conferences that would go down.
Willie is the baseball version of George W. Bush
Lets look at all the teams that need a closer and can afford this one. The market is small and now the angels make it smaller. The only team I would worry about out of left field would be the dodgers. Yes I know they have a closer, but they are not exactly thrilled. I think the price has dropped and k-rods agent is well aware of it.
i’m not one of the people who is gung ho on the mets signing KROD but…a bit of a red flag??? In all honesty, they are a team that has a good farm system, they have that Arrodondo guy to hopefully fill in, and a great bullpen besides KRod. This is just them being intelligent. Not a red flag
Plus they have too many FAs they need to resign. Can’t sign them all.
exactly, this may simply be them saying we need teixera more than we need krod. they might just feel they can replace a closer alot easier than a 3-4 hitter than plays gold glove defense at 1B.
I think the Angels feel like they need to shred some payroll to compete with the Yankees to get Texieria more than anything else.
why did you have to mention peavy now this thread will have 500 responses with asinine proposals like “trade schowenweis and nick evans for peavy”
no way I’m not trading Nick Evans!
schoenweis and burgos for peavy, get it done.
Why should we give away two guys for Peavy? Castillo should be enough.
Unfortunately, I don’t think we’ll be seeing Burgos for a long, long time…not only is he being accused of hit and run, there are suspicions that he actually hit the woman intentionally…it’s a really ugly story either way…
has everyone suddenly forgotten how much of an ace Jake Peavy was an year ago? For those of you that only look at wins and losses (10-11), let’s all keep in mind that the Padres are one of the lowest scoring teams in the League. With that in mind, Peavy’s 2.85 ERA is 3rd in the league, (after Santana and Lincecum). So let’s not get crazy and say that we can give away two 2nd rate relievers to get an ace.
Perhaps the Mets can send them two seats from Shea Stadium for Peavy.
You may want to send Burgos some cigarettes.
I think Burgos’ last phonecall will be placed to Tony Benazard, who will come to his jail cell to hold his hand one last time.
Please…nobody is that dumb…Plus if Omar can’t get Peavy for Ambiorix Concepcion and Alhaji Turay, then he needs to be fired.
what is this “amateur hour?” ravi3, you have to be dumb yourself for thinking that the Padres would trade Jake Peavy for 2 minor leaguers that barely make a name for themselves. Obviously, you don’t know baseball cause your probably thinking Peavy’s losing season will get him instantly traded. He had a 2.85 era, which makes him second to few in the National League.
It doesn’t shock me at all.
First off, he’s going to demand a five year deal w/ an average of around $15-20m. That is insane for a closer.
Second, his motion is EXTREMELY violent and may lead to arm problems sooner rather than later.
Third, you can tell just by watching him that he doesn’t throw nearly as hard as he did and for a guy that is still young, that is a concern.
Yes he has developed that nasty changeup and such, but his walks were up, his K-rate was down. I won’t be screaming murder if NY signs him, but I don’t think it’s all that great of an investment.
your right he does not throw as hard as he once did but thats because he altered his delivery to avoid injury in the future. He developed a changeup to compliment his new delivery and instead of blowing people away and getting injured because of his delivery..he learned how to pitch and adjusted his delivery to avoid injury.
Dirtysanchez there’s got to be at least 50 different instances where someone has said, “K-rod’s delivery is so violent, he’s going to get injured” followed by someone (usually you, I believe) responding, “no, actually he has changed his delivery so as to avoid injury.”
Just fascinating this could keep popping up over and over and over and over.
My opinion is this: if the Mets can get another closer – I mean a LEGIT closer – fuentes, street, soria – then I’d favor that over giving K-rod big bucks. But if they fail to do so I think K-rod is a must, an absolute must. Just imagine Omar not being able to land a closer and letting K-rod sign elsewhere. I would be incredibly angry going into 09 with ayala or kuntz or anyone on the current roster as our closer. It’s the only weakness this team has for pete’s sake. (do it for pete)
It’s not just the closer. It’s the whole damn bullpen.
Omar IS GOING to sign K-ROD and Mr.RAMIREZ ! You know why ? Because they are DOMINICANS . So stop arguing about that.
NOTHING against the dominicans,whom i think are the most talented players in the world,but not always the better TEAM players.
krod is venezuelan….nice attempt though.
“NOTHING against the dominicans,whom i think are the most talented players in the world,but not always the better TEAM players.”
-I’d say thats sayin SOMETHING against the dominicans?
You can’t go the “blockbuster” trade route when you’re the one trading prospects two years in a row.
It’s one thing to make a trade with young guys thrown in, but after emptying out the farm system last year, NY could ill-afford to deal say, Niese, Evans, Murphy, Parnell and F-Mart.
One? Fine, but a deal for Peavy (if SD even liked it), would consist of 3 of those guys, at least.
This is why the team has fallen on hard times down the stretch (outside of the bullpen). They had so little help to aid in the inevitable injuries except for older players/borderline MLBers who are then forced to fit in.
Look at the Angels, the guys they promote when injuries happen are prospects or younger players.
Aside from Murphy and Evans, we were treated to Robinson Cancel, Raul Casanova and Ramon Martinez.
You’re not winning when players like that are forced to contribute almost daily.
I’ve read from many online articles that if any team makes a run for Peavy it will be Atlanta. They’re in dire need for a starting pitcher and have the current prospects and players to make such a trade.
The only issue is, will they? They should, if they can. THeir rotation for next year has more question marks than the Riddler’s suit.
In fairness, Robinson Cancel and Ramon Martinez didn’t cause this team to miss out on the playoffs. In fact, they single handedly won that game against the Cubs with those 2 clutch 8th inning base hits.
Why does everybody continue to laud Nick Evans. What am I missing??? I saw very little to be excited about. He looks like a career bench guy to me.
Very good minor league numbers and decent scouts, prior to the season at least, plus I believe he’s only 21/22 so he should be expected to develop offensively. And even with his offensive struggles he had a .706 OPS on the season. And he hit the hell out of lefties. .894 OPS. Even if he ends up being a career bench player he’d be a very useful one for a team with so many left handed batters.
I just don’t see why people think we could get anything for him, or why people want to cling to him. Our system not withstanding (and maybe that’s my answer right there) these guys seem like a dime a dozen.
Oh yeah I pretty much agree with you. I do think they’re a dime a dozen for the most part, and I don’t think he’d have much value in a trade as more than a throw in. That’s just why I like him as at least a bench player for us. He can’t be worse than Anderson/Easley
everyone knows why people cling to Nick Evans…
same reason everyone clings to Murphy/Wright/Church
I, for one, like all 4 players and if Murphy and Evans CONTINUE to develop, I would love to see an infield of Wright Reyes Murphy Evans
However, it is pretty clear that there are people here that give a lil extra special love to certain players…
( I think Wilmer Flores may be a dark-horse candidate for 1B in the future though )
I dont think K-Rod is going to cost nearly what people are saying. It doesnt seem like anyone needs him as much as the Mets do. Even if they did, no one is going to give him 15 mil for 5 years, there is no way. Im betting he gets something along the lines of 4yrs/50 million, which is reasonable
You’re probably dead-on with the years, but I guarantee you that he’ll get closer to $60 million than 50.
And to me, there are wiser ways to distribute that cash.
but that is why he might cost what people are saying because he knows, boras knows and the mets know that they need a closer for next year and based off 2 years of bullpen blowups..the mets know they got to address the issue. Krod is in the driving seat because as you said it doesnt seem like anyone needs him as much as the mets do but teams may still be in the market for krod. Omar has been trying to downplay the necessity of signing krod to hopefully shave off a few $$ by lowering their demand for a FA closer..making krod look like a 2nd or 3rd option as opposed to being a #1 need. Basic economics and sales. Omar may very well sign krod but he is not going to broacast it.
I think at the end of the day, the Mets will have the best offer on the table for him, and I dont think Omar or Boras are stupid. If he comes in with a hard offer of $X for X number of years and will not budge, eventually he will come back to the mets because i dont think anyone else is going to blow him away. So in the end I think his choices will be security for less than he wants, or a 1 year deal with the angels to get more teams to be in on the bidding to overpay. All Im saying is that I dont think the market is going to be beneficial for K-Rod and Boras, and if Omar holds firm, he can take advantage of that.
Boras does those one and two year deals when he doesn’t get what he wants. Don’t be surprised.
i dont think he is a boras client.
Well, that would change everything then, wouldn’t it?
7-train has said No to K-Rod. Dudes throwing 91-92, he’ll be throwing 89 in half a year. I know, I know – fastball doesn’t equate to pitching he has a great curve, but it helps a stike out pitcher.
LOL
True, but in all seriousness, thats what I mentioned in my first post. It’s not the decline in velocity per se, it’s that it has happened to him and the guy isn’t even 30 yet.
well, his drop in velocity coincided with many people losing velocity, which coincided with the mitchell report. just saying.
that being said, i still want him. we need a guy we can rely on in the 9th inning. soria will cost too much. the only way we won’t have to give up a boat load of prospects is if we trade murphy and a minor leaguer for huston street. don’t even know if oakland would take that.
Like I said, I won’t be upset if they get him. He’s good and probably will be for awhile yet.
BUT
There are several warning, let’s say signals instead of flags. And to me, there are too many other holes on this team that need to be patched up before you slap down $60 million on a closer.
I hear you. But closing out games was a major issue for this team last year. I think K-Rod will also benefit from a change in leagues. He isn’t 33 yrs old. He is 26. If we were willing to give a 33 yr old guy 4 yrs, why not the 26 yr old guy (that has a ring)?
Again, it’s either this or trade Murphy in a package for a closer. Sorry folks, but Evans wouldn’t net us Dennis Eckersley.
Language like the following sentence can be found in all Mutual Fund prospectuses or fund fact sheets.
“Past performance is no guarantee of future results.”
K-Rod has been worked hard by the Angels and may begin to break down soon.
They should create the closer from within or target a pitcher in another organization to deal for and make him the closer.
I don’t see anyone “within” stepping up and being an even remotely reliable closer. No one. If this team was rebuilding and had a few years to waste, I’d be fine with that. But they don’t. They need someone who can come in the 9th inning and get the job done almost every single time.
In terms of targeting a pitcher from another organization and making him the closer, I’m all for that one. But keep in mind you are expecting Mr Minaya to make this decision, to make this talent evaluation. Omar will have to target player X in the hopes of him becoming a closer.
I’m not sure about you, but I have much more faith in Omar throwing a lot of money at a player this team needs. Because he’s proven he can do that, and he hasn’t proven the ability to be creative and find that diamond in the rough.
And if anyone has been beaten to death, it’s been CC by Milwaukee. K-rod and his stupid saves record is the product of pure luck. I mean just to be given the opportunity to come into the game so many times with a one or 2 run lead is amazingly lucky. I care not for the saves record. I care for the Mets addressing the only glaring weakness they have on this team – a closer (and the bullpen as a whole).
Omar HASNT proven he can find a diamond in the rough???
Trading Benson for Maine = diamond in the rough
I could STOP here…but for extra measure…
Trading Cameron for Nady = diamond in the rough
Trading Nady for Perez = diamond in the rough
Drafting Murphy= diamond in the rough
Drafting Evans = diamond in the rough
Signing Easley = diamond in the rough
Drafting J.Smith = diamond in the rough
You can make an argument for Tatis/Ayala/Stokes as being good reclamation projects as well…
The Angels are also notoriously cheap and they have guys who can step in and take over that role. Plus they get 2 nice draft picks if he leaves.
But I wouldn’t commit that much money and that many years for K-Rod either. He’s melted down 2 playoffs in a row. Can you imagine the fan outrage if he did that at Citi Field? And for a “lights out” guy, he sure did have a lot of blown saves (just what we need).
7 out of what 80 something….Billy blew the same amount with less chances.
Agree whole heartedly. We don’t have a viable replacement. If I have to go through another season of watching Luis Ayala nibble at the corners to try and get Chris Coste out, I will probably hang myself.
Luis Ayala didn’t nibble.
In fact, he is the one guy in that bullpen who DID NOT. He got the job done more often than not and even when he didn’t, he’d go right after the hitters.
It’s not his fault he’s not a closer with lights-out stuff.
OK, you’re right about Ayala coming out and trying to throw strikes. However, that simply isn’t enough out of a closer. I have no problem with Ayala coming back as a setup man or 7th inning guy. But I can’t watch him (try to) close games anymore. He’s not a closer.
right. I hope they bring back ayala. Bottom line i believe we respond better when there are roles defined in the bullpen. This closer by committe left alot of people unable to develop a consistancy night in and night out. We need to get the right people for the job rather than just auditioning people and hope someone will stick.
I just have to comment on this here. Because this whole “defined role” bit is old, imo. “I can’t pitch the 7th, I can’t pitch the 8th”. Horse$hit. These are major league pitchers, folks. Besides the closer, who cares what the title of the next guy coming in happens to be. I got an idea! Here’s a “role” for you. Come in, throw strikes, and get outs. That defined enough for everyone? Scott, Aaron, Joe, Pedro? You guys with that?
(Pause)…
(watching the results of the latest BP melt-down).
Apparently NOT.
oh wow your soooo funny. like they give up runs cause they want to. if you think it’s so freaking easy, you go out there and show us what you got. or keep quiet.
I’m not sure if it’s a red flag as much as it is an indictment that the Halos will look to spend money elsewhere. They have a guy named Arredondo they think can close right now, he had better stats then K rod last year anyways….
Our problem is we have NO ONE right now we can say is an internal candidate and is ready for the job..
That is what makes a good GM a good GM.
You cannot win by simply playing checkbook baseball. The Mets need a closer and need one badly, but IMO, no way would I pay that much for Rodriguez.
It’s stupid.
You cannot win either by ignoring your weaknesses either. We benifit from being a big market team we have more money available. If we can get someone of krods caliber w/o having to trade valuable commodities that later on will help us save $$ why not do it. Omar has to build a competitive team and preserve our farm/future to get the same production for cheaper and longer saving us green. Thats what makes a good gm a good gm
Right, and by signing K-Rod to a ludicrous contract, he’s forfeiting two more top picks.
Its obvious this team needs a closer, but in my mind, it’s just too much money.
I agree its alot and i have a post about that earlier in the thread. Im sure omar will persue other options as well and that will benifit us double fold
1) reduces the impression that our only option is to sign krod which imo takes krod and boras out of the driving seat and hopefully shaves off a few $$
2) if we are able to find a good trade we save the draft picks that we give up signing krod.
Omar is playing this the right way..just hope we come out on top one way or another
Come on, so this raises a red flag but Hudson’s 100 injuries to his wrist and hands does not?
The Angles spent a lot in prospects including their starting 1B to get Tex. That money on Krod will be spent to retain him and find a starting pitcher if they let Garland walk. You have to make cuts somewhere and they have more of a replacement for Krod than they do Tex, Garland, Vlad…..
bingo..we have a winner. The only red flag is they have the internal resources ready to replace his production..so you let the guy go and save the money to address other areas.
yup. this is nothing more than mets fans looking for reasons not to sign someone with a fine tooth comb.
TRADE SOMEBODY….maybe Ryan Church or a package of Evans, Carp and someone else for GRANT BALFOUR!!! He is our answer. No use in investing millions upon millions when you can get a guy like that for cheap.
so, you want to trade church,evans and carp for a 30 year old reliever who has a carrer 3.93 ERA
I whole heartedly agree. 31 should be retired :-)
1 Balfour will be their closer next season
2 They don’t need an OF or 1B
3 You can get similar results out of Juan Cruz without giving up Church or Evans.
4 See number 1, they are not trading him.
Dan Wheeler will close for them next year – the same Wheeler who had an era of 5+ two years ago. Who can figure this stuff out..
Actuall based on mulitple reports Balfour will. Either way he will not be traded.
K-Rod has the lure of the Kavorka! There is no way for Omar to resist him. Questionable mechanics, great previous track record, best years in rear view mirror, Latino.
Career era is pretty irrelevant when it comes to Balfour, someone who is clearly coming in to his own this year. Also, I did not say Church AND those guys, I suggested Church OR a package revolving around Carp and Evans. This guy has a closers mentality and he’s proving it on the biggest stage right now. I’m sure TB wouldn’t be eager to trade him but I think the right package get it’s done. He’s definitely not untouchable, especially that he’s 31.
His numbers are no better than Juan Cruz who is actually available. The Rays are not going to trade next year’s closer for Church or Evans. Just stop.
Sorry Omar, I didn’t realize you have already been in talks with the Rays and they told you Balfour wasn’t available for that very reasonable package. And I don’t care about numbers that Juan Cruz has put up, this is about a certain mindset that Balfour brings everytime he toes the rubber. You’re telling me to “Just stop”? Get it straight, Real. I know more about this game than you’ll ever dream to learn, you know it all baby.
Ohhhh, did I hit a nerve using logic on you? WHY WOULD THEY TRADE HIM? Answer that first then whine about something else.
Don’t the Rays have more OFers than God’s team?
You can’t trade what we have if the other team doesn’t have the need.
lol @ God’s team, but yeah people don’t seem to understand teams are just going to take random players they don’t need so we can fill our needs.
once they gor rid of the “devil…”
the 2008 Tampa Bay Jesus Rays!!!
It makes me crazy. It really does. “Let’s trade Heilman Evans, Feliciano and Stokes to the Padres for Peavy.”
Let’s trade our trash to a team for their star regardless of the fact that the other team knows it’s our trash and even if they didn’t would have no need for those players.
He also likes to eat and lick up vomit.
Balfour?
Isn’t Balfour just a terrible name for a pitcher?
~ha
Like Bob Walk.
I think this should be a Go Dodgers! blog for the next week. All in favor, say “aye”.
for the nl i am pulling for the dodgers(obviously)
for the al i am pulling for the rays(go rays)
Let’s go Dodgers!!!
He likes when people puke down his open mouth.
Do me a favor, insert your index finger down your throat and touch your uvula. Do it until you cough and gag.
When you’re done, wipe off your finger on your shirt and then smell your index finger.
what….
Ok, remind me never to read one of your post again.
For once we agree. :)
forget K-Rod, the mets need to get someone that is just a flat out save machine with a high era, which would not cost a lot and not lose a top draft pick.
OMAR!!! get Steven Register back from the Rockies or try to use the rule Five Draft to get the mets a reliever for the bullpen.
I bet your finger smells like butt.
Matt, clean up on Isle 9. Krod section.
Where’s 9 Island?
I’d love to go there.
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFF
There is a new thread. Too bad there is no comments section though. The thread is “Send me your Q’s for Omar Minaya”. Judging by some of the questions that came through here this offseason when Matt was interviewing someone else, I’m not surprised.
Want to post some possible questions in here?
The current state of the economy may certainly have an impact on the economics of many teams. Baseball revenues across the board will be down next year as ticket sales, concessions and sales from team merchandise certainly will take a hit. Perhaps the impact wil not affect free agency until after the 2009 season, but I’m certain some teams will be factoring this into the equation when they bid on players this offseason.
We’ll see what the Mets do, but I don’t anticiapte the Wilpons opening up the bank and signing as many players as some of you are anticipating.
You again. LOL. It might hurt concession sells but not ticket sells. Do you really think that people are going to stay home? If you give up your ticket then someone else will buy it.
The only thing it might do is boost TV revenue.
I feel sorry for you because obviously, being that this is all you post about, you either lost a ton of money or your job. It’s ok buddy, everything will be ok. This is not even as bad as it was during Carter yet.
thereal,
um, i work on wall st. and it’s pretty bad. i don’t think we’re at the point where people will stop going to the ballpark, nor do i think it will affect the mets next year. luckily for them, there will be a buzz about the new stadium which will drive ticket sales up.
however, if this continues for one more full calendar year, then the wilpons may have to worry a little bit. i understand his concern. things don’t look great right now. the good news is, there is a bottom, but there is no cieling.
the real:
First, you are an a-hole. Second obviously, you don’t work in the fianncial sector where tens of thousands of jobs have been lost and many more will be cut. This is the backbone of the NYC economy and this slowdown wil affect the Mets next year. Next this crisis is hitting every corner of the US economy. You don’t think you are affected right now but you will be at some point when you try to get a loan to buy a home or lease./buy a car etc etc. it will
If we head to a 3/4 year recession which is looking more and more likely, the 4 or 5 year contract you hand out today could hurt you down the line, if you don’t have the revenues to support it.
Already last week, when Omar was extended, the Wilpons were asked such questions concernng Citi Field, and any potential impact the current economy may have. They replied none to date, but conditons have gotten worse.
Thankfully I still have a job and have not lost significant money inthis crisis, but there are many that have and it is foolish for the Mets to ignore this when making decision this offseason.
Nope, I am a teacher with great credit. I will not have any problem obtaining a loan, in fact I just did.
Yes, seriously Real, you are terrible and for someone that thinks they know everything, you bring extremely little to the table to back that up.
You are constantly posting about this. Do you realize that during the great depression people still went to watch baseball and boxing? Baseball will be just fine.
I will admit I know very little about the “crisis”. However, I do know that it’s not time to panic yet or think that baseball will be grossly effected yet. Lets cross that road in 3 years.
You guys are also looking at this in a vacuum. If the economy is that bad and all teams are going to feel the stress then wouldn’t all teams be giving out less money in contracts. Therefore it would all even out and would not really matter either way?
thereal,
I wasn’t trying to start a mob against you. was just pointing out that it has to be a very real concern for all of major league baseball. not just the new york teams. wasn’t trying to imply that you are ignorant, because you have made many intelligent posts on this site. i am just of the opinion that if i had season tickets last year and find myself unemployed this year…i may not be able to afford those tickets anymore. i think they will still draw, but you would have to figure attendance and concession sales would drop at least a little bit.
Hubie,
The sky is not falling!
TRS86 is right…this “crisis” is bad. but hardly the end of the world. Do any of you remember the Carter years? – we had double-digit unemployment, double-digit inflation, and double-digit interest rates. All that with the highest marginal income tax rate being at 70%!!!! And, stagflation raged, and we all sat in lines for gas.
Yes, the credit market seizing up would be horrible, but it is being addressed. Yes, we may have a recession – but we have had plenty of recessions over the decades without it hurting baseball.
As TRS86 points out, people went to the ballpark in the Great Depression, never mind the late 70s….and we are a LONG way from being in as bad shape as we were in those eras.
We have employment rates that for many decades would have been considered “full employment,” historically low interest rates, a comparative;y low rate of inflation, and top marginal tax rates (until Obama raises them) at 35%.
Citi Field will be a tough ticket for years,
gipper, while the sky is not falling yet, we have yet to see a bottom yet. It also does not have to be the “end of the world”, for baseball and other sports to be affected
I don’t see 2009 being affected much, but a few years of this will certainly affect people’s spending habits. Also, it could be more difficult to sell luxury boxes to the finacial firms that are bleeding so much right now. Look at the flak AIG got for having a $440k boon doggle.
Also, lets not forget a ticket in the 1970’s was probably 3 or 4 bucks. Not sure what the inflation adjustment is today but I’m sure its well below the price today.
Lastly, all I am saying is if you open up the bank today and shell out a bunch of long term deals, you may be hurting in a few years if this recession hits hard and your revenue base contracts, which is certainly a possibility. it’ll be difficult to raise ticket prices if demand is waning.
Always09 Your post did not bother me at all. Now Hubie the panic man……
Anyway, my point still remains that if NY of all places has to cut back on its spending then all of baseball will. Thus, NY would still be in the best shape to get the top players and would not really effect who we sign. That’s my theory anyway. I don’t see the Mets saying “That’s too much money” but the Pirates saying “That’s a great investment”
Unfortunately, I should not engage in a conversation with someone who has no clue. Just look at the Heyman article from yesterday where he mentions the potential impact of the financial crisis.
There was an excellent article in the New York Sun “What the Wall St. Crisis Means for Sports” that addresses this subject. I would post the link but the filter here won’t accept it.
i’ll throw some trade ideas into the ball field.
how about the mets try to get Khalil Green from Padres and move him to 2nd base for someone like Ryan Church? the Padres have been somewhat soured on him, also his contract is a salary dump waiting to happen, and Brian Giles might get traded this winter.
or
how about the mets try and get Asbrudal Cabrera, 2nd base, from the Indians for some minors like Adam Bostick?
The idea of Greene is not a bad one. It would not cost you Church so no need there. In fact you could prob. get him for Awful Reyes and a couple of lower prospects. They have to cut payrole so you would imagine he would be one of the 1st to go.
However, he did have a terrible year last season.
Khalil Greene is a career .248 hitter who hit .213 last year. He has a little pop, but he also has a career ops of .731.
He’s an awful hitter. Trading anything, much less Ryan Church, for this guy would be a terrible idea.
the only way i would trade for him is if he dresses up like jeff spicolli during the press conference and answers questions only with quotes like “you diiiii$%” or “aloha mr. hand”
is he good defensely?. if yes, trade for him. he is a 15 HR 60 RBI guy, for 2B thats not bad.
Who is playing the outfield when we trade Church?
Anyone ever actually eat poop?
Like a real, bona-fide turd?
Hey Cerrone…I bet you’re wearing a long-sleeve, button-up shirt that is two sizes two small and have the sleeves rolled up.
Since the weather is getting cooler, I also bet you’re wearing a sweater-vest over it.
You and Matt Yalloff, that other BLOW HARD are made for each other.
Fire Isiah!
“…this is a bit of a red flag to me, since the Angels have the money to bring him back…”
The Angels are a penny pinching organization. Yeah, they have the money. But consider this: Lackey and Guerrero’s contracts will expire shortly. Mark Teixeira is a free agent and they will likely want to re-sign him since they gave up Kotchman for him. Also, they have Jose Arredondo to take over as closer.
Angels letting K-Rod walk is not a red flag. They may have money but they have more pressing needs and are not a franchise that spends a lot.
Well, they have more pressing needs and more importantly, they have a viable replacement. We don’t even have a #1 guy.
Johan for closer!!!!
the Mets really need to consider putting Heilman back in the rotation if he is not traded this off season because i think we can all agree he is not a reliever anymore
i think it is better for Heilman to go somewhere else to get a fresh start as either a starter or a reliever. there is no point in continuing to trot Heilman out there in a mets uniform anymore.
Agreed, it’s best for him and the Mets to get maximum value out of him and move on.
We lost any chance to get maximum value out of him a long time ago.
Heilman needs to prove he can get left-handed hitters out, or he has no trade value or future with the Mets.
But I agree that he should be brought to spring training to see if he’s healthy. Why trade him now, when his value is virtually nil?
I think we can all agree Heilman should take a long walk on a short pier!
drugs nordberg…no, heroin.
Nordberg’s in the clink!
I fully agree with stretching Heilman out in Spring Training to see if he ca either rehabilitate his trade value as a starter, or possibly compete as a fifth starter. Wathc him go to the Cardinals who will make him a serviceable starter.
As far as F-Rod is concerned, the Mets already have an abundance of pitchers who can give up late inning homeruns in key situations for a lot less $$$
Good, let the Braves get Peavy. It’s not like their one player away from contending/winning a World Series. This move would set them back.
i guarantee by may fans will be going crazy over not having a good closer. not doubt about it. nothing upsets a fan base more than a frustrating, mediocre closer.
unless brian fuentes is the answer or scott no-show…k-rod better being wearing an ny mets uniform next year
The contract that Fuentes is seeking maybe even more hilarious than Silva’s. Does HE even think he is worth that much?
If we can’t get Krod then we should just settle for Cruz and Everyday Eddie and use the money on SP.
What about getting Braden Looper back? There’s some mediocrity for you.
Normally, I would agree with the general consensus to stay away from both K-Rod and Manny but that would really be dictated by whether we have a legitimate chance to trade for a J.J. Putz or Huston Street. If such a trade is clearly not possible, we must sign K-Rod or hope that we can turn John Maine into Joe Nathan since a closer has to be our #1 priority.
If we go the free agent route, I think it imperative we trade for Peavy (again, if really available). If the price were F-Mart, Evans, Heilman and another low minor leaguer, I would jump on this in a heartbeat. F-Mart is no longer a sure thing (far from it now), Evans projects to be a 4th OF, and we need not discuss the reasons for trading Aaron (it would take too long!).
The key is how imaginative Omar can be on the trade front because that will dictate our direction with free agents. Or we will be frozen out of both markets and spend next year with one hand on the Maalox and the other on the barf bag.
i was just saying if Aaron wasn’t moved (which i don’t think many teams are looking to grab him from us any time soon) he should be a starter
two words: manny ramirez
Two more words, Albert Bell
If the Mets want to be in the playoffs next year and want a legit chance to go deep and contend for a title you can not just look inside the organization for your closer and bullpen. Every guy on that roster who pitched in the bullpen failed last year except for Kuntz and Parnell. But at the same time they did not pitch enough to look at them as your answers in the bullpen.
The Mets can’t roll the dice on one of these two as there closer. Oliver is bye bye so Maine needs to be in that rotation next year plus who knows how he would do as the closer? To unproven. They need a proven closer via free agency or trade.
I want to see Parnell and Kuntz in the bullpen next season from day one but can’t count on them to be your 8th or 9th inning guys. The Mets need a strong proven closer and at least one stronge solid reliever to fill the eighth inning roll.
Look at what happened this year. Wagner gets hurt the Mets have know one who can fill his role. They need another strong arm in that bullpen who can fill in and do a good job if the closer goes down. They put to much stock in Sanchez coming back and being the 8th inning guy, Heliman bouncing back and going back to the way he pitched in 2006. Just too much dice rolling going into last year when it came to the bullpen.
Can not do that this year. The Mets can not roll the dice with guys internally this year when know one is proven.
A proven closer is needed and a solid set up man. After that you want Smith, Parnell, Kuntz throw in 2 lefties I am good with that.
its kunz…not kuntz
that’s a hilarious mistake though…
it amazes me how you still can’t read through the lines Matt. This is so much more to do with the value of a closer than anything to do with Krod himself. The Angels are smart enough to realize that closers are not worth 5 year contracts worth 15 mill a year. Sorry, they’re just too good of an organization for that. Scott Shields or that young 7th inning arm they have could easily step in and the Angels still win 95+ games next year, and they can spent that extra money on Texeira or a starting pitcher. Krod is good, don’t get me wrong, but as proven by his past two postseason performances, he’s no game changer (ala Mariano Rivera).
sign manny and krod..
sign relief pitchers
use hielman, castillo, shoew, church and prospects to fill in the rotation and rest of pen
reyes, beltran, manny, delgado, wright, murphy @2nd, church or whoever, schnieder
that would be the sickest lineup in the national league. especially he first 5 or first 6…they are all allstars
not trying to be racist but omar likes to sign these types of guys..
Well I just hope Murphy handles 2nd base good this winter.
I really want to see him at 2nd base next year. Considering he did not hit for much power that is the perfect position for him and then when his power comes along you’re possibly looking at the next Chase Utley.
I mean I don’t want to get ahead of myself I realize the kid only had what 130 at bats. But I mean all the talk is the Mets want him in the everyday lineup next year. Omar has said it and Jerry has said it. So I mean hey hope he works out there.
i hope he continues hitting next year…i cant see him not hitting well at all…..and yes..he could defenitely be the next chase utley
Let’s not obsess on “the next…” stuff. Let him be the next Daniel Murphy. Comparisons likethis are just plain unfair to young players.
umm…he’s playing 1B this winter according to the roster.
he played second last night. I think the roster list is wrong.
My friend Marc, who is an Angel fan, is hoping they don’t resign him. As far as he is concern, good riddance. Rather they pickup the options of Anderson and Vlad and resign Tex and Lackey. Doesn’t mind seeing K-Rod and Garland go.
Why does Marc want him gone?
Doesn’t come through in the big spot. Sort of Benitez like. See the last two years in the playoffs.
I wouldn’t blame him. They’ll have question markets at the closer’s role though. They’ve gotten as much of what they can get out of K-Rod in his prime. Garland was simply just an average innings eating. A guy who can come or go. They gave up Kotchman to get Texeira though, so I’ve got to believe they’ll spend lots to get him.
Have I been banned from commenting? I don’t like this filter.
Nope. Must have had a pseudo swear word. Oh well, I had a good point a few minutes ago…
keith is up for stache of the year again
americanmustacheinstitute.org/MustacheAmericanOfYear.aspx
Our PEN is gonna be okay,we just neeeeeed K Rod or Fuentes !
Then we’ll go with Smith,Kunz, Parnell,Ayala,Sanchez and Feliciano.
That bullpen wouldn’t be adequate. You’d be returning 5 of 7 of the guy’s who played through the last game of last season. That wouldn’t be acceptable. That’s what tanked this team.
I’m ok with Smith. I’m okay with Stokes who you didn’t mention. Or Parnell. And maybe even Feliciano. Ayala’s a FA though. He don’t need to sign him. There’s no guarantee if Kunz will be ready.
I say you sign one of K-Rod or Fuentes like you mentioned, bring back Smith, Feliciano and one of Stokes or Parnell. They need to sign two set up men. There’s loads of lefty’s out there. Some right-hander’s. Sign one of each. And if it has to happen, bring back Sanchez. Or allow Kunz to compete.
Fuentes is a much more logical option than K-Rod or trading loads of prospects for a closer – especially if it’s a questionable one like Street. By not signing K-Rod, you have extra money on SP, LF and 2B and most important other relievers. And you can commit one less year.
Let’s all think of this logically when it comes to money.
K-Rod = 15 to 17 Million a year. Let’s say 16 Mill.
Fuentes = 10 to 12 Million a year. Let’s say 11 Mill.
What can 5 Million extra buy us in the bullpen? At least one good core reliever like Joe Biemel, Juan Cruz or Dennys Reyes. Plus possibly a Rudy Seanez.
i dont kno if u realize the reason one is 11 mil and the the other is 15 or 16 is becaseu one of them is a million times better….compare their stats..and thats y krods making more…so yea we can sign fuentes for cheaper or spend that extra 5 mil. for krod who is a million times better
Sign Lowe at 14MM a year, Fuentes at 11MM, one of Ohman/Biemel/D.Reyes at 4MM and one of Cruz/Weathers/Brocail at 3MM = 32MM spent. The Mets got 30 mill coming off the books + the probability of trading of Schoenweis and Heilman which can hike the number to 35 Mill. Trade Castillo (6MM) for Byrnes (11MM) and you’re still breaking even to that point.
They may not even have to sign a 2B either if Murphy can play there. If not, than that’s where the Mets will need to spend a little extra. Just about the whole bench is already filled out. Arbitration will kick in, but the payroll probably wouldn’t hike up more than 10-15 Mill.
Because the Giants may want to bid for CC or Manny and Rowand’s coming off a mediocre season, do you guy’s think they’d be willing to swap Rowand for Church? The Mets need some toughness and Rowand can play a corner OF position well. He thrives in a competitive environment.
don’t dump too much money on relief pitchers. We don’t need a 16 mil closer. Get someone cheaper like Fuentes or make a trade for one. Use the money to sign a free agent starter like Lowe. And we also need to do something to the lineup to make it more consistant, and we have to dump Castillo!
did u watch any of the games this year…the bullpen was by far the worst in the major leagues…y shouldnt we throw money toward relievers???thats our weakest problem…..think about all the games we would have won if it was a 7 inning game instead of 9………ALOT MORE THAN 89.
yeah but I really don’t think K-Rod can solve anything. Id rather improve the overall pen then just get a big closer.
I would rather look elsewhere – especially given the amount of money he will ask for. Also, look at his post-season stats. Not that impressive.
I think we should look around for some other options. I’m more in favor of trading for Putz or Soria.
Look at the Phillies. JD Durbin? Off the scrap heap. JC Romero? Again, off the scrap heap. Even Brad Lidge – pretty much off the scrap heap.
“don’t dump too much money on relief pitchers.”
u were talking about spending money onn the offense and rotation where the big need is relief
People have a tendency to believe cause and effect always has to be as direct as it sounds. In 2007, I would have agreed that the Mets collapse was a collective effort. In 2008, it was mostly the bullpen.
The Mets went 7-10 in their last 17, but it should be said the bullpen done that. Ayala blew back-to-back saves against the Braves in the 9th inning a couple weeks before the end of the season. And they blew another one in the 8th. So right there, the Mets SP’s and hitter’s can say we put you in position to go 10-7. If the Mets had gone 10-7, they wouldn’t have just made the postseason, but would have clinched the NL East.
The Mets would have been 16-9 in September play had those three games been won. Why shouldn’t this be recognized? Why should the hitter’s and SP’s be held accountable? Why should we blame Wright? Or Church? Or Oliver Perez? Or even Pedro? Or anyone who’s not in the bullpen?
The Mets were 3rd in scoring in the NL which speaks for itself. People say bullpen is hit or miss. So is the line up. Who knew Tatis would lay well? Who knew Pagan would go down? The whole sport is hit or miss. And you’ve got to swing to get a hit because our bullpen hasn’t even allowed us to play the game. The Mets did not have the ability to perform as a cohesive unit this year because of the bullpen. It was like going swimming with a big rock chained to your ankle.
Outside of dumping Castillo or swapping him with Byrnes and re-signing or replacing Oliver Perez, the main focus has to be getting a closer and revamping the bullpen. Anything from there is a bonus because from the way I saw it this team’s hitting and starting pitching produced 100+ wins for us. Throw a healthy John Maine and Ryan Church and it’s a dangerous club once again.
… and your suggestion for our closer is?????
… and your suggestion for our 8th inning set up reliever is????
… and your suggestion for our 7th inning set up reliever is????
My suggestion for closer is to sign Brian Fuentes to a 3yr/33MM deal. Sign one of Dennys Reyes, Joe Biemel or Will Ohman as a left-handed set-up and Juan Cruz, David Weathers or Russ Springer are your right-hander. Slot one of each of two of those guy’s I’ve mentioned as the 7th and 8th inning set up. It’s financially possible for the Mets to have themselves a good closer, a good set up core and a 3 starter without spending a penny more than last season. From there, my suggest is that’s where you begin to look at 2B and LF. Murphy will fill one of those spots. Pitching has to come first though because the offense the Mets have right now is still dangerous. Losing one of our main SP’s is a serious void as is a horrendous bullpen in need of being revamped.
‘09 Bullpen:
Stokes or Parnell (not and) – Long Man
Joe Smith – Right-Handed Specialist/Middle Reliever
Pedro Feliciano – Lefty Specialist/Middle Reliever
Duaner Sanchez – Middle Reliever
Will Ohman – Set Up
Russ Springer – Set Up
Brian Fuentes Closer
I got more hope in Sanchez than I do in Ayala. I don’t know why, but if Sanchez were not to start out well I’d look to trade him. Maybe promote Kunz or Burgos if he’s not being man handled by Bubba in prison.
Russ Springer hasn’t really been mentioned, but he’s really a guy we could use. A good veteran set up man. Look at his numbers.
‘08: 2.32 ERA, 70 Games, 53 Innings, 39 Hits, 18 Walks
‘07: 2.18 ERA, 76 Games, 66 Innings, 41 Hits, 19 Walks
‘06: 3.47 ERA, 72 games, 59 Innings, 46 Hits, 16 Walks
MATT …ONE MORE QUESTION…….TELL HIM NO TO KROD….BRING IN A FUENTES TYPE AND TWO OTHER GUYS …DOES HE THINK HE CAN JUST SIGN ONE GUY IN THE PEN??? WE NEED TO SIGN OR TRADE FOR AT LEAST 3 MIN….WHY DOES HE CONSTANTLY IGNORE THIS. HE HAS BEEN QUOTED TO SAY WHEN THESE GUYS GET BACK IN THEIR ROLES THEY CAN REBOUND FROM YEAR TO YEAR…..no waay!!!!!!!!!!! IS OMAR NUTS/????????
look at the split stats for feliciano and show…they held lefties to under B/A around .189
Righties hit like .800 against them
for the record, show had no business pitching to a righty in the 8th inning of an elimination game…
i know u will throw tomatoes at me but Heillman or Joe Smith should have come on at that point
In my opinion, Omar Minaya is obligated to revamping the bullpen to it’s entirety if he expects Mets fans to believe in this team. I watched because I love baseball and this team, but I’ll be honest. It was not fun to watch this season’s games. Even when we won. This is not how the game is supposed to be played.
I still don’t understand how he earned three years – more than Jerry Manuel. It brings me back to be questioning of the ownership. The way how Omar got an extension and how Willie and Peterson got fired (not why they were) really makes you think. It makes you think is this ownership and personnel really on the same page as us? Do we really see the game the same way as they do?
Winning seems to heal bruises. I remember Marty Noble saying that about Willie doing this for the Mets until the candle burnt out. And he said it about Jerry and the candle held out longer, but burnt out too. I just want to see some initiative in Minaya. I know he’s made moves in the past so I’m not worried there, but I just don’t know if it’ll be the moves that matter.
Anyone see Yu Darvish as a possibility?
i understand the argument that most bullpens that are good are built mostly from the farm system instead of free agency but right now we need HELP! K-rod seems like the best option but honestly, what kind of toll is a record setting save season gonna take on him. is he gonna break down and never come close to the success he had this past year. i dont know but for the money hes asking i wouldnt risk it. id go for fuentes instead. hed probably be more reasonably priced anyway. by the way, SIGN O-DAWG PLEASE!!!!! who cares about castillos contract, take the hit and ship him out on the same flight as heilman!
To be fair, most bullpens that are good are also utilized properly. When you expand to a 40-man roster and get a bunch of extra arms in the pen and still keep bringing in the gas cans that are Heilman and Schoe, you get what you deserve. Manuel infuriated me as much as Willie did with his lousy managing of the pen.
This Fuentes stuff is really getting to me. There is no way he is worth 11 million. That is as insane as Silva’s contract.
If you don’t want Krod then get someone with value. Go get Juan Cruz and Everyday Eddie. Those 2 combined would cost less than 1 year of an average Fuentes. Fuentes was demoted from the closer role 2 times in the last 2 years. We could have had him for Hielman and Show in December last season. That’s how far he had fallen.
Either
A) Krod
B) Guys like Cruz, Eddie, Lyon, etc.
C) Trade for guys like Ryan, Street, Sherrill
D) Take it up the rear with Fuentes.
Anyone listen to Max Kellerman yesterday?
He proposed trading Daniel Murphy, and 2 good prospects for Jake Peavey while signing CC.
And we thought the US govt had issues with spending too much.
Scary, but could you imagine the Mets could do that and still get bullpen help and a bat. I mean, I love Murphy, but a rotation of Santana, Peavy, Sabathia, Pelfrey, and Maine…yikes!!! It would probably have to be Murphy, Niese, and F-Mart, plus though.
Maybe add a Juan Cruz and Eddie Guardado mix to the pen (or Russ Springer as posted above).
Obviously no money to sign Manny or Orlando Hudson in this situation, but add a suitable left fielder and this team would be stacked. And honestly, you are adding about $55 million to the payroll but subracting $35 million, which I think is doable.
This obviously isn’t happening, but wow if it did. I think they could even get Peavy with a different prospect package not including Murphy, and allow Murph to platoon with Evans in left to save on a left fielder.
I would as$ume that for Peavy it would take Fmart, Niese, Murphy, and Maine? Fmart, Niesee and Murphy is not enough and we really don’t have anyone else to trade. I am not sure Kunz swings it. Maybe they would view him as a potential closer replacement?
no to peavy
The TMDUP Plan for survival:
Trade:
Carlos Delgado (while eating a little contract) to Angels for Jose Arredondo
(Angels need offense, namely a DH, have great farm system and pitching staff already)
Mike Carp, Dylan Owen & Scott Moviel for Brian Roberts
(The O’s may not agree to an extension with Roberts, in which case they’ll trade him for prospects.)
Sign:
AJ Burnett to 4 year contract worth $54 million OR Derrek Lowe to 2 yaer contract worth $20 million
Juan Cruz to 2 year contract worth $9 million
Arthur Rhodes to 1 year contract worth $1.2 million
Cliff Floyd to 1 year, $2 million contract
Rocco Baldelli to 1 yaer, $1.2 million
Mark Prior to 1 year contract worth $800,000
Lineup: Reyes, Roberts, Wright, Beltran, Floyd/Baldelli (LF), Church, Murphy/Evans (1B), Castro/Schneider
Rotation: Santana, Pelfrey, Burnett/Lowe, Maine, Niese
Bullpen: Arredondo, Cruz, Kunz, Parnell, Smith, Feliciano, Rhodes
To be quite honest I think we’d still have more offense than we had last year despite trading Delgado, we have improve defense, and a very improved bullpen.