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In his first game for the Peoria Saguaros of the Arizona Fall League, Daniel Murphy was 2-for-4 with two strike outs and a run batted in.
As expected, Murphy started and played all nine innings at second base. He did not commit an error in his four chances.
…in my opinion, for murphy to be even considered to be the Mets second baseman next season, it’s important he shows the ablility to play the position during his time in the afl…
…i always find it interesting that fans think players can play any position on the field, but it’s not that easy…for example, look back at Mike Piazza’s first base experience…
…the Mets would be making a mistake to just put murphy at second and let him ‘learn’ the position, as many fans have suggested…it’s too important of a defensive position on the field to let a young player learn as he goes, especially at the major league level…
For more on Mets in the Arizona Fall and Hawaii Winter Baseball League’s, check out Toby Hyde’s excellent Mets Minor League Blog.
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I believe part of the Mets offseason plan needs to be to make Murphy take 1000 ground balls a day at second base. Everyone talks about the kid’s love for the game and this is his chance to show his dedication.
It is not just about ground balls. It is mainly about his ability to turn a double play while having a runner baring down on him and how comfortable he is making quick throws to second to start the double play.
There is so much more to 2b then just your range and ability to read the ball off the bat.
I honestly think the Mets need to have Murphy play first base..he was a third baseman which means he has the ability to play the corner and pick it..best option imo for the mets is to sign a second baseman (ie ORLANDO HUDSON) and train murphy at first base.. i think thats the best position for himif delgado is gone or for 2010 and the future and infield of wright reyes hudson and murphy sounds pretty damn good to me..the middle infield is too impt a position to mess around with!!! MURPH AT FIRST!!!
YES!
He will be a viable option only if his defense is that of a average 2nd basemen,
Piazza was not an athlete. He was a hitter.
Yeah, that was a horrible comparison. Piazza was a DH, hidden at catcher for his whole career. His bat made you overlook his defense, because his bat was that good.
Murphy is a better option for 2nd base than Orlando Hudson. The Mets don’t have money to waste on Hudson … there are more pressing needs on the roster.
not to mention murphy is a natural infielder, granted not a natural 2nd basemen, so he at least has experience fielding grounders and throwing to 1st base. not a very good comparison.
Yeah he’s a 3rd baseman. Everyone sees him playing Left Field and doesn’t realize that he’s an infielder, playing out of position.
he had near 50 errors at thrid base so he’s not much of that either.
He’s a natural hitter. Should be breaking in a first baseman’s mot right about now.
He’s 22. It is possible for players to learn better defense. It has been done before. Stop being closed minded.
His outfield defense wasn’t bad. It wasn’t really pretty either but it wasn’t bad by any means.
Nah, it wasn’t bad. He never played outfield before that. That shows me that he’s a quick learner … and with infield experience already, learning 2nd base should be no problem for him.
Again, Murphy’s glove improved darastically between A+ and AA. It is way too early to dismiss the possibility of his playing 2nd. A .275/.350/.460 line with about 15 HR (which is about what I would expect him to pull in a full season in the majors) does not cut it at 1B for a contending team. It is excellent production from 2nd.
(If Murphy can’t play 2nd, putting him at third and Wright at 2nd might also be considered…although I would be skeptical of that possibility)
Nonetheless, the single best thing that could happen to Murphy or to the Mets is for Murphy to be able to handle 2nd. It plugs a huge hole with no money (you’re kidding if you think that O-Dawg will be signed while there’s still $18 million of 2nd baseman in the scrap-heap and the Mets have other pressing needs) and allows Delgado to stay one more year while we see if Carp and Evans can develop into at least a platoon 2nd base situation for ‘10. To simply not pursue the matter is foolish.
It’s not a done deal that Murphy can play 2nd, and I’m not saying it is. I’ll give him a 50/50 shot at it. What the Mets are doing now–giving him as many innings as they can at 2nd so that he can work on the position–is correct.
And Cerrone, the Piazza comp is terrible. Piazza was 33 years old when they tried to get him a new position and had been a poor defender throughout his career. Murphy is about converting him from an adequate 3b to an adequate 2b. You put him there even if he’s close to adequate.
Excellent points. You nailed it. The only thing you got wrong is that it was Nichols, not Cerrone. Nichols is on the Hudson bandwagon.
I like Murphy’s bat, but something tells me we should still pursue Orlando Hudson this winter. I would feel much more comfortable with an experienced veteran at second base, especially with the amount of sinkerballers we have on our pitching staff (mainly in the BP). If Delgado is in fact traded, Murphy should be moved to first.
Murphy is not 22 — he’ll turn 24 by opening day.
We already went the route of experienced 2nd baseman. Castillo. No need to go down that route again. The other holes are more important to fill.
And AR, by opening day, 23 … 24 … what’s the difference. He’s under 25 which means he has plenty of learning to do. Let not act like he’s 29 and just coming out of the minors.
Good point mikey….the Mets have roughly $36M coming off the books this year….they need to spend it wisely….the fact is they played their best ball when players were platooning and competing for jobs…..they should bring back Easley for another year @ $1M and hope they can get some production out of Castillo, because, like it or not, he will be VERY difficult to trade…something to consider is that the Mets pitchers, for the most part, are fly ball pitchers with the exception of Pelfrey, so when he pitches you put your best defensive 2B out there (Castillo).
This is the current state of the Mets and their 2009 salaries:
C – Schneider – $4.9M
C – Castro – $2.5M
1B – Delgado – $12M
2B – Castillo – $6.25M
3B – Wright – $7.5M
SS – Reyes – $5.75M
MI – vacant
LF – vacant
CF – Beltran – $18.5M
OF – vacant
RF – Church – $2M (arb elg)
RF – Chavez – $2.05M
PH – Anderson – $1.15M
SP – Santana – $19M
SP – Pelfrey – $1.9875M
SP – Maine – $450K (arb elg)
SP – vacant
SP – vacant
Cl – Wagner – $10.5M – out but on the books
SU – vacant
RP – Heilman – $1.2M (arb elg)
RP – Feliciano – $1.025M (arb elg)
RP – Sanchez – $850K (arb elg)
RP – Smith – $398K
RP – Stokes – $402K
In order to fill in those 7 vacant spots they will have to sign free agents and choose from the following:
RP – Burgos – $415K
SP – Jason Vargas – $394K
SP – Niese – league min
RP – Kunz – league min
RP – Parnell – league min
OF – Pagan – $402K
2B – Murphy – league min
LF – Evans – league min
What they should do:
1 – bring back Tatis and Easley for $1M each
2 – sign Ramirez for LF for $19M
3 – sign Krod for closer for $15M
4 – have an internal competiton for set up role between Burgos,Kunz and Parnell – all have live arms
5 – have an internal competiton for 5th starter between Niese, Heilman, Stokes & Vargas
6 – trade Evans/Murphy to the AL for a mid-rotation starter
So you spend the $36M on 4 free agents and make one trade for a decent 4th starter
Projected line-up:
SS Reyes
CF Beltran
LF Ramirez
1B Delgado
3B Wright
RF Church/Tatis
2B Castillo/Easley
C Schneider
I forgot Schoenweis $3.6M, so there will be one less vacancy at RP
There is absolutely no WAY that Burgos is still with the team in ST….He is a complete headcase, and may end up in jail for the hit and run he was involved in. Even if there is no jailtime, the Wilpons are extremely PR conscious, and try to put a family friendly product on the field….Burgos doesn’t fit that mold.
He’s already in jail, actually.
I think you guys forget that it was only his inability to throw out baserunners that was a problem. He called a good game, blocked pitches in the dirt well, and blocked the plate better than average, certainly better than the other NY catcher.
I am totally with you on this one. The whole Piazza is a poor defensive catcher killing the Mets was a product of the NY media and the Mets let that determine his future with the team.
Piazza was not good at throwing out runners but he was good at all other areas especially balls in the dirt. Posada is a pb waiting to happen.
Plus what’s a good rate for throwing out basestealers? 25% 30% Well Piazza wasn’t at 0% so who cares? And how many of those runners ever scored? And how many were negated by big Piazza hits. And what about the runners that didn’t get to 2b because of saved wps and pbs.
To me that whole “controversy” was complete BS.
Piazza was a lot older when he tried to switch.
It doesn’t matter. It’s not always easy. Todd Hundley couldn’t play left. He’s a catcher you say? Well he could steal bases. Juan Samuel couldn’t play CF.
Nobody has any idea if Murphy can play 2b until he plays 2b at the ML level.
And has anyone seen Soriano play LF? OMG.
Or if he can hit like Uggla.
Murphy seems awfully big to be a second baseman. Although, in earlier days, they thought all shortstops had to be wee. And Cal Ripken pretty much blew up that idea.
Murph’s a gritty competitor and a tough out on offense. I hope they can find a way to get him in the starting lineup when CitiField opens.
Awfully big? He’s not THAT big.
I met dan murphy and stood right next to him in person hes a pretty big dude but id imagine up close all major leaguers are and he doesnt stick out as a monster on the field so im sure his size isnt the problem. not to mention dan uggla and jeff kent are both pretty big guys.
Haha … yeah well I’m 5′9″ … and most of those guys standing next to me would look pretty darn big. I don’t think he’s too big for 2nd base, though.
It’s not like we got Robinson Cancel out there, haha. Murphy isn’t to big, in my opinion…I just think he doesn’t have the agility and speed to be a valuable second baseman. I hope he proves me wrong, though, because this kid really is special.
Right. I understand skepticism, especially since, as Biggie reminds us, he hasn’t been stellar at third throughout his pro career.
But as a high school and college player, he was a 2nd baseman. And he improved drastically at third from his 1st to his 2nd professional year.
Considering his upside, the skeptics should at least give Murphy a chance to prove them wrong.
This is off topic but being posted for all the know-it-alls who ridiculed me the last two days for saying the financial crisis would have an impact on free agency.
From the a local paper last week:
“In baseball, the Steinbrenner and Wilpon families need to see the language of the final bailout agreement. Both the Yankees’ and the Mets’ new stadiums are being funded by very high ticket prices for luxury boxes, club seats, and nonpremium seating. With Wall Street monies drying up, the two teams may have overestimated the marketplace. New York could lose as many as 64,000 financial sector jobs by April 2010, and that will greatly impact the city’s sports economics if true.”
“New York could”
If there were people that could see the layout of the financial sector 2 years from now, we probably wouldn’t be in the situation now. Who knows what it’s going to be like, and there are other rich people besides wall street. It’s not like there are 500k seats to buy, we’re talking about less than a hundred luxury boxes and maybe 10k seats over 162 games that are really ‘high priced’. The money will be there, and if over all economic decline does happen, it’ll happen for player salaries too, and will level out. Doesn’t mean they need to cut prices now, that doesn’t make financial sense.
Ceeter: Who said they had to cut prices? I don’t see that for 2009
Anyway, its too early to know the impact, but my main point has always been, in this environment, it’ll be difficult for owners to shell out for 4 and 5 years contract when they face a possible contraction in their revenue stream, which includes TV revenue, merchandise, concessions etc. Perhaps this will not impact the NY teams and could be an advantage as the NY teams may have a large enough revenue to pay the potential contracts estimates for K-Rod, Manny etc, we have seen on this site. It’ll all play out in the next few months.
You mentioned that it was too expensive and that you were considering losing your deposit in the first post, and that you think they’ll have problems selling them.
When the _baseball_ financial model falls/declines, _then_ they can see about adjusting contracts. Right not we’re at all time highs, the baseball finances are good.
There were such people. The writing was on the wall as early as 2004.
Why do you keep with this? You are posting this same stuff over and over again.
B/C it is as important of a topic out there right now and most people like you don’t seem to get it.
The Mets and Yankees, with their television networks and new stadiums, are going to make so much money that even a severe recession will not affect them nearly as much as virtually any other sector of the economy will be affected. 64,000 job losses will of course hurt the economy and will be awful for the 64,000 and their families and neighborhoods, but the Mets and Yanks draw from tens of millions of folks, very few who will cancel their cable tv or their one or two outings to the stadiums in the next year or two–especially considering that brand new parks are being built.
And as others have pointed out, entertainment–especially sports and Hollywood—have a tradition of doing fine during the worst of economic times.
We get your point Hubie, and I am starting to wonder if you are Paris Wilpon or one of his operatives, posting this exact same thing again and again and again to lower fans’ expectations going into the offseason.
Many of us here are grown-ups with good jobs, and we do understand the economic situation in the world right now.
This guy is still a joke. He refuses to acknowledge that if the Mets don’t give out any big contracts then neither will anyone else. Thus it really does not matter either way. It’s not like the Royals are going to say, ooo the Mets can’t afford Krod so we should step in and pay him more than we can afford.
I did not even think of your point, which is an outstanding one. If the economy tanks severely, the Mets and Yanks will be in an even STRONGER position regarding their ability to spend compared to almost everyone else, as the huge revenue streams which come from their TV networks (which they own) will still exist pretty much regardless, and virtually no other team has this advantage.
The worse the economy gets, the greater the disparity between what us and the Yanks can afford to spend on free agents will very possibly be.
Of course, the last sentence meant that the greater the disparity between what us and the Yanks and then almost everyone else can afford to spend…..
It’s a loaded question. The Mets need to find room for him, but maybe that means keeping him in the outfield Depends on Castillo, his trade value, or even his spring training.
The issue is not about upgrading second base, but finding somewhere for Murphy to play. (Btw, I never checked, did he stay under the mark to be considered a rookie next year?)
Having Murphy work out at second provides depth should Castillo’s injury/down year this year prove to be the beginning of the end, and Omar should look at getting a fourth (and 5th and 6th judging by our luck and injuries the past two years) outfielder for depth in that department, so they can move Murphy around as things shake out.
either way, number one issue is still the bullpen over upgrading at second, or left field. Finding Murphy a spot to play is important, but it doesn’t have to be at second.
agreed ceet. Theres alot of ways this murphy situation can play out but we got to get him in the lineup one way or another.
I believe Murph went over the rookie mark 1 or 2 games
Yeah he did. He is no longer considered a “prospect” and has lost his rookie status. As of Spring 2009, Daniel Murphy will be a veteran (sort of).
he had 131 ABs (I think the limit is 130, to still be considered a rookie)
you really wish Castillo is backdon’t u….lolol pathetic.
Even if Murph proves to have great hands, I question whether he has the range needed for 2b.
Granted, if he has a great bat, may be you forego the range that you would want at 2B. I would prefer range similar to Reyes, though that is hard to find. I think Murph’s range is far less than Reyes.
The problem is that Delgado’s range is terrible at first. To compensate you need some one with greater range at 2B. I do not think Murph is that person, though I would love to be proven wrong.
Many have spoken about Delgado perhaps being traded. If that occurs, who plays first? Whether Murph can perform at 2B may in part depend who plays at first.
The question is if our first baseman has range, then we can go with a person at 2B with perhaps sligtly less range. However, if the first baseman has zero range (i.e. delgado) then we really hurt ourselves with a 2b with less than average ranage.
Delgado is not as horrible at 1st as some make him out to be. He’s a tad below average at fielding balls and a tad above average at fielding throws. Delgado prevented far more throwing errors from Wright than he caused.
Agreed. Gado can dig some balls at first, I will give him that. His range is pathetic, but he’s an old guy. And with a noodle arm like Wright at third base it was good to have someone who could save an error at first.
Give Wright credit where credit is due. His defense seemed to turn a corner in the second half of 2008. He not only made few throwing errors, his throws were more often than not right on the money.
Viable option? Yes. Do I want him there over Hudson? No.
It’s about limited resources and where you use them. Orlando Hudson is overrated. He’s over 30, has a career OPS+ of below 100 playing in hitters’ parks, and has only played 2 full seasons in his career.
You have huge hole in LF and SP, a question mark in RF, and severe bullpen problems. You really want to go all in on Orlando Hudson.
Murphy’s optimal position is 3B, but that’s already taken and his bat will not play a more offensive position. 2B is Murphy’s only shot to be highly productive.
If he can only play 3rd and 1st, you have to think of trading him for someone who meets our needs.
Who said we had to go all in? I don’t think Hudson will be very expensive simply for the reasons you pointed out above. It would be more of a side pickup rather than a key acquisition, and if we can do it we should.
I would see where you are going, but then Murphy might have to be sold high.
Orlando Hudson is the type of player who often gets overpayed. He is very close to average, but carries a better reputation. (Granted, he is an excellent defender, but even that has shown signs of decay last year.)
O’Dawg strikes me as a $10 million per year guy. For a team that already has a bloated payroll (including $18 million on a 2nd baseman already) that’s a lot of money. It’s also 2 draft picks. If Murphy’s 2nd base defense proves completely inadequate then he can be an option, or perhaps you could move Murphy in a package for a young and not particularly expensive 2nd baseman–and hopefully dump Castillo in the process.
Actually based on reports he wants 4 years 12-15 million. That’s WAY too much.
Then maybe we trade Murphy. I like the kid, but I will always trade potential for proven. Why hang on to someone that “could be as good as _____” when you could just go out and get that player? Yes we have holes, but we also have a lot of money coming off the books in Alou, Pedro, Perez, and possibly Delgado (if we don’t pick up the option). I think it’s safe to say that the Mets want to make a splash to open the new stadium, so let’s not rule anything out at this point.
Ok im confused is he playing 1b or 2b in the fall?
2nd.
wasnt there a report that he would play 1b though….
Nah, that was just a typo on the roster that people looked at online … and then inferred that he’d be playing 1st base because of that. The only report was that he was going to work at 2nd base, which he is.
You basically said that there needs to be a wait and see attitude in regards to Murphy playing 2nd and then you ask if he’s “a viable option”.
He’s not an option until the team sees how he handles 2nd.
Conduct the poll after the AFL concludes and we have a pile of stats to draw from…not after one game.
Yeah- I was also wondering what we’re supposed to base this on… One AFL game? That’s good enough for me. I vote yes!
even if he plays well out there, none of us are going to see it (so how can we comment on it)
if he plays well then a fan can say that Murphy is a viable option and if a fan can say that the manager and gm can it as well. but he hasnt played enough for any poll to be taken.
Defense up the middle is way too important to have Murphy play there.
The read on Murphy all along has been “Great bat, no glove”.
Try him at 1st, and if at first he doesn’t succeed… sell high.
I think they should go on with the expirement, why not? See if he can play a good 2B, and if not, leave him in LF. While fans shouldn’t be going crazy and expecting a battling title within 2 years, the kid has thus far looked impressive and I too hope he’s in the lineup. If not at 2B, then in LF.
And this team doesn’t need Orlando Hudson. Christ. This team needs a bullpen.
It would be a beautiful thing if either Murphy’s bat or glove could play LF. From what I saw, neither can. His glove might be a worse liability in LF than in 2b, and he didn’t show that much more than decent to good doubles power and adequate home run power with the bat. Murphy’s an OBP guy with gap power and a good average–good at 3B, a godsend at 2B, but subpar for LF or 1B.
Murphy’s too good for the bench, and 3B is, shall we say, occupied, so if he can’t play 2nd you have to trade him for someone who can, hopefully in a package where you get optimal value.
can someone please explain what kind of hitter keith hernandez was? thanks!
I’m beginning to think that the best option for Castillo is to bring him to ST, see if his knees have heeled and either trade him then (when his value increases) or hold onto him for part of the season.
If we DO hold onto him, it will be essential to bring another heavy hitter into the lineup. (Manny, Milton, or Magglio). Having Castillo, Schneider and a possibly woozy Church all making automatic outs is a recipe for another disaster.
luis castillo is the worst cancer on the Mets I have ever seen. Go look up the stats of him with the Mets, versus n the DL.
I feel like there should be a lets wait and see option. It’s kind of hard to say whether he’s a viable option when his only experience there is 17 AA games.
I agree Gina. Always the voice of reason.
ive been saying that for a while now. 2b is a very important position and daniel just doesnt have the exp imo to handle a starting job there.
Unless the Mets address the real needs (Bullpen, Starting, Left Field), the Mets won’t be a playoff team.
Whether Murphy plays 2nd base in the year of 2009 makes no difference if those other things are not addressed.
Talk about the importance of 2nd base all you want, there are more pressing needs to worry about. You guys will have to accept this will not be a good team, regardless what position Murphy plays, if they don’t fix the real problems.
Obviously. However we have so many options this season. Do we go after Krod and go cheap on other spots? Do we go after Manny and trade for a closer.
Do we get Hudson and sign guys like Juan Cruz and Everyday Eddie.
That’s enough to keep us busy all offseason. Because if you are logical, unlike many on here, you realize that the Mets are not going to get Manny, Tex, CC, and Krod. Infact they may not get any of those and still have a better team.
Yes I agree. If the Mets make a big signing it will only be 1 big signing. If that is the case than it is in my opinion that signing Hudson would be a waste.
Fill out the other holes properly with the options out there, and give Murphy a chance to play 2nd base. Worst case scenario, it’s only for one year. Better case, he does well.
If he can play 2nd then he can play 2nd and if he can’t he can’t. Whether he’s done it for 2 months or 20 years is of no importance at all. Experience is only relevant insofar as it builds skill. In the end, skill is all that matters.
Or if you want experience, you could go with Marlon Anderson; that dude has a ton of experience at 2nd base. I also hear that he’s a winner and that he knows the game. You can’t put a price on that, and it doesn’t come through in statistics–(.200/.240/.260?–please, as if that means anything!)
We’re talking about bad position switches, and you guys are talking Piazza instead of Hundley? Hundley was absolutely awful in LF, and brought everyone to their feet whenever he caught a fly out there. THAT was a bad idea.
Murphy, he’s a natural 3bman trying to convert to 2b. Not a LF’er trying to play the infield.
I think it depends on how good of an athlete he is, and so far he’s been pretty good.
Aki made the transition well last year.
Fonzie made the transition back and forth pretty well.
It’s not so far out there that we’re talking about Hundley in LF, but as long as he doesn’t get injured during the offseason, and he’s really able to get his time in at 2b, I think he can be fine defensively.
the problem is, he’s not old enough or overpaid enough to be a starter on Minaya’s team.
that last line is bull…
I think Minaya is trying to find a spot for him. Furthermore, Minaya is also the one who decided to give him and Evans a shot rather then trade for a one year rental.
However, you were spot on about Hundley. Boy was that an adventure. He is still one of my all time favorite Mets.
Do you realize how many people we went through before Murphy was finally the LF starter? He didn’t get a shot, he was the last resort.
And I’m not saying the other guys didn’t deserve their shot. they played well. but still… it took a lot before Minaya didn’t try to replace them.
Alou. he gets hurt, then it’s Pagan.
Pagan gets hurt, then it’s this hodgepodge of people who just didn’t desrve to be there:
Marlon Anderson.
Trot Nixon.
Andy Phillips
Brady Clark
Endy Chavez (i love the guy, but he’s a bench guy. not a starter)
Finally, he let’s a minor leaguer try the field. Aguila.
He doesn’t work out after a week (even though the albatross Marlon got a bigger shot)
Then finally Fernando Tatis takes over the job, even though Murphy was doing decent at filling it.
Do you guys remember the crap trades he made in the middle of the season for lf?!?! phillips? nixon? clark? seriously?
the problem with not knowing is that if he can play it, then we need a left fielder,…..if he cant then we need a 2nd baseman….cuz i think if he cant play 2nd then he will go back to left
Couple of ideas
A) Sign Manny, trade Delgado, Heilman, and lower prospects for BJ Ryan. Move Murphy to 2nd base and Evans to 1B. Evans is supposed to be a good fielder. Maybe the increase in production at 2nd and LF will make up for the lack of production at 1B. Then you still have money to get a starter and some bullpen help.
B) A big package for Holiday, Spillboroghs, Barmes.
C) Hudson on a discount and keep Murphy in LF and Delgado at 1B.
Do you really think it would take that much to get Ryan? I would think Delgado and Hielman/lower prospect could do it.
I think so, there will be a preimum for closers this offseason as there are only 2 real options for experienced closers on the market. The Jays know that if we are looking to trade for Ryan we are trying to save money. I guess if we ate a few million of Delgado’s contract we may be able to hold on to the prospect. Yes I think it would take Heilman. They would use him in the rotation with Burnett leaving.
I think trading for Ryan would be the best thing the Mets could do. I just quesiton that extra prospect- Ryan would probably be the least valuable of the closers on the market (FA or trade) and I don’t see alot of teams looking for closers.
Actually he would have more value than Street based on numbers. His contract is a little expensive but still cheaper than Fuentes. I have changed my mind the last few days and think that Ryan would be the best case for the Mets.
I agree with you about Evans and that is a very good point. He is a very good defensive 1st baseman. If you trade Delgado and hypothetically replace his bat with Manny … or Holliday, somehow … then Evans can play D at first base and mature as a hitter without too much pressure.
True, I would like to bring in a LH 1B back up if that is the direction they go. Someone like Eric Hinske would be ideal as he can play the OF too.
Man, this is going to be a fun off season, huh?
lol no question.
My problem with Ryan is that he’s 32. I’d rather not trade for anyone over 30 unless they’re a beast.
Guys if Jeff Kent can play 2B then Murphy can.
um no…….this is not a valid argument.
Does anyone think we could trade with the Yankees?
I wouldn’t mind trying for Cano.
I think if we package Delgado and Jocelyn Pierce (they need a first baseman and an attractive woman on their team) for Cano.
We fill the gaps m\by playing Cano at 2B (of course we would still need to trade Castillo) and play Murph at first (we get Manny for LF to replace the bat). We promioe Julie Alexandria to the weekley show.
I think it would work. Thoughts?
Actually a yankee blog metioned a rumor or Beltran for Cano (yanks pay his contract) plus Ian Kennedy, bruny/veras and a lower prospect. They said the Mets were clearing salary to sign K-Rod.
I don’t believe it and wouldn’t like it anyway.
Yes that sounds like a very Yankees blog type rumor.
I would stay away from Cano. Another “Me First” loser.
Yep, him and Hanley Ramirez are the same.
No, not the same at all. Ramirez has concentration problems. Cano has showing off problems. Two totally different things.
You don’t think Hanley is a showoff and an arrogant player?
no, they’re both the same thing. lack of focus on the game as its being played. see cano in the field taking lackadaiscal routes to ground balls, making throws to the wrong base, not being prepared for a relay throw….
Ugh. No Cano. And at the expense (I mean loss) of Beltran? No way!
But anything that features a more prominent role for Julia Alexandria I am 100% for! :-)
I just know that I saw Cano hit a homerun in a game this season, go back to the dugout and smile, laugh and give the peace sign to the camera in the dugout. He was so proud of himself.
Two innings later I saw him throw a routine ground ball away and the Yankees lost the game.
He’s a bad defensive player who thinks he’s great because he can hit, and all he wants to do is say “look at me, I hit a homerun”.
I’ve never seen Hanley blatantly performing for the camera. Cano is a selfish loser.
Hanley might not blatantly perform for the camera, but he is obsessed with individual statistics. He has made comments about how he was upset he missed 30-30 last year, and watching him play, he just has an arrogance about him that doesn’t exude “team player”.
Yeah, I guess you’re right. I’d still take him on my team though … but I’d never want Cano. Maybe I’m just biased.
Nah, it’s not being biased. Most people would agree with that. Hanley Ramirez is on a much higher level than Robinson Cano when it comes to talent. Hanley’s skills far outweigh his attitude. Cano’s do not (not this past year anyway).
i’d trade beltran to the Yanks, but NOT for cano.
Ok, so I am out for a while. While I am gone your as$inment is to find out what the Jays would want for BJ Ryan. LOL ;)
The only thing i have a problem with is(and i have changed my mind about this) the phillies have burrell coming off the books. What do you think the chances of the phillies aquiring manny?
If omar can c-block the phillies from aquiring manny…that would bode well for us?
I am terrified of the Phillies and Manny. It makes a lot of sense for them.
i have been thinking about that for a while…imagine howard and manny back to back with utley ***arino werth …no dobut the power is shifted in the nl east
I highly doubt the Phillies could pull it off. They would get outbid by someone. Gillick seems to be the anti-Minaya. He’s ultra conservative and doesn’t do the big splashy hig priced deals.
How about Murphy at 2nd (they’ll be a learning curve so be patient with him). Trade F-mart and Kunz for Holiday (as long as we can sign an extension). Trade Delgado and Hielman (and maybe another low prospect like Carp) for Ryan. Sign Cruz. Think about Evans for 1st- if we don’t trust him maybe Casey Blake? Sign Lowe and another pitcher that won’t cost draft picks.
No? Yes?
With a little time he’ll be in the same area as Utley and Uggla. Nothing spectacular defensively but the offense will make up for it.
Utley has improved a lot and is actually pretty good there now. Uggla on the other hand, he’s still a train wreck.
I think it is pretty obvious that no met fan with a brain wants to throw Murphy at second base during spring training and let him “learn” the position. OBVIOUSLY he needs to learn the position in the fall league, that is why hes there, jeez.
I don’t think that any smart baseball fan thinks it’s easy to move from one position to another but there have been countless success stories over the years For every Mike Piazza there are many more Craig Biggio’s,Pete Rose,Joe Torre, Gil Hodges,success stories. Murph is young,athletic,can hit and is cheap. Give him 2B if he does OK in AZ and spend the money on pitching and other needs. His low cost a t2B will enable us to eat Castillo’s contract
cmf, I am in 100% agreement with you. I am just taking offense that Mike Nichols is suggesting that any met fan who has a brain would suggest that Murphy’s play in AZ doesnt matter and we should just throw him into the fire, which is what his post suggests:
…the Mets would be making a mistake to just put murphy at second and let him ‘learn’ the position, as many fans have suggested…it’s too important of a defensive position on the field to let a young player learn as he goes, especially at the major league level…
to me this is a pointless comment and a non-issue
one word that says why he can’t do it….RANGE! he may very well make all the plays he can get to but I see alot of balls getting the through the hole with a runner on 1st.
Why do you say that? He played 3b, it takes a lot of range to play that position also. I have no doubt he can do it and will excel
Second base requires much more range than 3rd, time will tell I guess, I hope he can do it. But I can really see him costing us alot of runs simply b/c he can’t get to the ball, not for lack of trying. He runs like he has a parachute tied to his back
plus remember with delgado at first, it’s imperative the second baseman has enough range to compensate for the range you lose at first.
Off topic:
Ive got season tickets next year for lower Promenade (new upper deck) near 3rd base and would like to sell about 20-25 dates. We can meet and “draft” according to preference and schedule before the season starts.
phgrant05@gmail.com
are we in that movie with that guy about the Boston Red Sox???
Just use stubhub man…I would put my tickets up that none of my friends wanted and sold them for enough that after their percentage I made my face value back…
I tried posting on here and noone ever responded
Murphy just doesn’t LOOK like a 2B. 2B’s tend to be smaller (and faster). Just because Fonzie made the switch, doesn’t mean it’s easy to go from 3B to 2B.
Although it would be great to have his bat in the lineup as a 2B, I think the Mets will need to make other plans.
If it involves Hudson, no thanks. I’ll live with Murph.
give him a chance…it doesnt matter what he looks like…hes 6′3……utley is 6′1 and is very good…. soriano was 6′1…..jeff kent is 6′2….1 or 2 inches in height is not gunna make a big difference……if he doesnt have the abitity to play second base than thats different but it has nothing to do with his size
height is not the issue, its his legs. They call him D-Rex for a reason, his legs are huge and his foot speed is just not there. He’s a nice player and I hope the mets keep him, but keep in mind he still hasn’t done it for a full year yet. lets not anoint him the next will clark just yet
im not annointing him anything…i never said that. i simply said that size should not make a difference but i do understand that if u are not quick enough then 2nd base is not a good position
i’m really not sure “they” call him DRex….it seemed to be some stupid nickname fans made up
delgado and hielman for bj ryan
left field manny
2nd base murphy
1st base evans/carp?
Sign someone like lowe
i really like the idea of giving the young guys a shot…evans is supposed to be a very good defensive 1st baseman and he can ht as well…manny would give us that bat that we lose from delgado…and lowe would fill the rotation
1.reyes
2. murphy
3,4,5 manny, beltran, wright (any order)
6, 7, 8 evans, RF, C (any order)
johan, pelf, lowe, maine, niese
ryan as the closer
other FA relievers
again, payroll doesnt mean championship!! look at the rays…the best team in the majors right now with the second lowest payroll in the majors!!…thay have a lot of young players, so maybe with murphy and evans we can do the same…..looking at the top ten payrolls in the mlb, only two teams are still playing baseball right now….im not saying to get rid of all our contracts but im saying to get some young guys in there…..they will play very hard to try to prove themselves as a good baseball player and prove that they want to play in the mlb
I like it but I would sign Garland as well for #5. No reason to rush Niese or rely on Niese and an iffy Maine with no backup.
The only problem is that Johan is the only lefty in the rotation, if that’s the case. I was making a case for the Japanese kid, Tazawa, who is also right handed.
Are there any left handed pitchers out there on the free agent market?
No not really. In fact I don’t know of any besides CC. Niese can eventually be that man but I would not depend on it yet.
Yeah so it pretty much looks like we’re going to have an all right handed rotation next year, aside from Johan. I agree about Neise. I think CC is already wearing pinstripes … the Yanks are going to go all out for him.
No errors doesn’t mean he didn’t miss balls.
ALSO TEACH MURPHY HOW TO BUNT IF HE WANTS TO STAY IN THE 2 HOLE
lol yea that bunting show was pretty hard to watch
Delgado, Evans, Heilman and Kunz for Overbay and Ryan?
i dont know if they would do that but i like it….how old is overbay
31, signed for 09 and 10 for 7 million each season. They could get by with a cheap Evans at 1B in a platoon and Delgado as DH. If Delgado had an average year it would make up for Overbay’s production.
Had Ryan on my fantasy team this past year, his numbers were decent but alot of close calls. His fastball is down and his control was questionable I dont like ryan
I like him because he is signed for 2 years at only 10 million a year. He is better than Fuentes, signed for cheaper money and less years.
well overbay would be a better defensive 1b than delgado but the offensive differance is notable. Def gotta make the play for manny. Bj ryans numbers are ok…..
True my hope would be that would allow us to sign a 2nd baseman and play Murphy in left or Murphy at 2nd and Manny in LF.
agreed. This murphy situation is very interesting and will impact the moves this offseason
Skip Manny and sign O-Hud. Leave Murph in the Outfield in 2009. Then in 2010 when Delgado leaves we can move Murphy over to 1st and sign someone like Holliday, Vlad, or Hamilton to LF.
I don’t see the point. Hudson’s offense does not make up for the lack of a bat. He only put up 41 RBI and 57 Runs.
he was hurt alot
Another reason not to. He still managed over 400 AB’s and had more strikeouts than runs or RBI’s. He has injured the same wrist twice. This guy is not what we need. Not to mention that his defensive range has went down each season.
For the price, and the salary the Mets will have to eat on Castillo … it’s way too much money to spend on 2nd base. I hope they do the smart thing and don’t sign Hudson.
Lets all remember, Hudson wants the Mets, the Mets don’t necessarily want Hudson.
Yeah if Hudson wants to be a Met so bad let him come in for 3/18.
eh….after the castillo blunder im sure husdon is on omars radar…
Yeah he’s on the radar … but at a really low frequency, I hope.
I like this idea better, but hopefully F-MART in left field in 2010. and with the money savings we should get K-ROD or B.Fuentes this year and and AJ burnett.
Our hitters arn’t terrible. If our bullpen had been even sub par as opposed to terrible we win 5+ games this year and we’re not even discussing how bad our clutch hitting is.
i gotta see it to believe it … it just never looked to me like murphy had the coordination and quickness in his feet to be a widdle infielder
things the mets need to do for spring training:
1.) everybody on the team must practice on how to bunt a ball. i expect all 25 men on the 2009 roster knows how to bunt a ball. the failure to execute a bunt this year especially in September was one of the many reasons this team choked.
2.) if Murphy plays second base next year, Jose Reyes should be expected to keep Murphy in check and make sure that he is positioned in the right spot at second base for each batters. i am confident Murphy can pull off the double play with little problem, but it is when getting to the ball that concerns me the most.
3.) this team needs to work on things like suicide squeeze and drag bunting.
4.) i expect Nick Evans to play some third base, first base, and left field in spring training if he is still here in 2009. i feel he has the ability to contribute to the 2009 mets team greatly.
Nick Evans can’t hit righties. And Jerry hates suicide squeeze just like most managers. Did you see how it backfired for the Angels?
that’s the Angels…….they CHOKED in every aspect of the game against the Red Sox.
the mets would have killed the Cubs the last week of the season if they had the ability to play the small ball.
Or had decent bullpen.
Jose Reyes is not going to take charge and keep Murphy in check. It’s not his style or personality.
1. u r saying that we collapsed because we cant bunt??? murphy failed to bunt a guy over in one game but other than that there was no other important times when we needed a bunt.
2. If murphy plays second base next year, he should not have to count on jose telling him what to do. he is working this offseason on that and the coaches will tell him where to play during a game.
3. YES..suicide squeeze…we need to to more of that but its not the players decision…its the managers and willie didnt like them and manuel never did it.
4. It depends on what we do. but yes hopefully he can be a guy to go to off the bench late in games
What are the thoughts on a possible Delmon Young trade?
I was thinking that last year the Milledge for Schneider and Church trade came out of no where. So I was trying to think of what teams might be willing to unload an Arbitration eligible OF. I know the Marlins have a few, any others?
if Church feels that he does not want to play in New York, the mets should be opened to trading him for a young right handed hitting right fielder with some speed.
Church and Neise for Holliday.
Only problem is Holiday can’t play RF thus we have no RF then.
IF you could get Holiday and Spillboroghs in the deal for maybe Church, Evans, Heilman, Niese and a prospect?
Didn’t he play RF in 07 … the year they made the playoffs? I don’t know why but I have this mental picture of him running down a ball in right field, near the wall.
That’s an interesting team to look at though … I think they are one of the biggest potential trade partners with the Mets.
Not sure how they value Spillboroghs…
Holiday has never played an inning in RF according to baseball-reference.com.
I really like the idea of Spillborghs. This guy can flat out hit. He had an OBP of over .400 last season. How he is not getting more AB’s I will never know. He can’t hit for power but can play all the OF positions.
Put together a lineup with that group.
OK, maybe it was the All Star game that I am thinking of.
What if you do the trade, Church and Neise for Holliday … he plays LF. Then you also get Byrnes for the much rumored Castillo dump. I’d take an outfield of Holliday, Beltran and Byrnes. That would be a damn good outfield.
There is most likely no truth to the Church rumor at all. He’s cheap and should only be traded in a trade that fills 2 spots. Like what Milledge did.
Church is young RF with speed and plus arm. The gossip about him not wanting to play in NY has been debunked. Trading Church doesn’t help our LF problem.
what about jorge cantu for 2B, he’d be a nice 7th hitter
there is a really good chance Cantu is most likely to remain with the marlins. dan uggla and mike jacobs along with kevin gregg might get traded.
I would not be surprised to see any of these guys go
Gregg
Amezaga
Treanor
Uggla
Olson
Willingham
Hermida
Jacobs
They are all arbitration guys and the Marlins want to remake their roster around speed and contact.
I would love to get Olson and Willingham.
agreed….
I think Kevin Gregg will go, for sure. He makes the most money on the team and is a pretty average reliever. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Mets made an offer for him.
Willingham and Olson would be nice, but what do we have to give that they’d want?
Fmart of course. Other than that (before you read this I am not advocating any of these, just mentioning names they would want. I have no idea how many or which ones it would take) Niese, Parnell, Kunz, Evans, Murphy, Endy, Carp, Smith, etc.
Well, you can scratch F-Mart, Niese, Murphy, Endy and Smith.
I can see all of those except for Endy. Why would we care if our backup OF got traded. Plus if I could get Olson and Willingham for Niese and Endy. LOL. You bet I would.
From Bill James’ Primer:
“Rightward shifts along the defensive spectrum almost never work…
The defensive spectrum looks like this:
[ - - 1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS - C - - ] with the basic premise being that positions at the right end of the spectrum are more difficult than the positions at the left end of the spectrum. Players can generally move from right to left along the specturm successfully during their careers.”
Craig Biggio, who was mentioned above, is the perfect example of a player moving in the natural order of the spectrum from right to left, playing C, then 2B, CF, and LF.
I am not sure I get it. So leftward shifts would be more likely to happen? like a C going to SS?
lol..(picture of castro playing ss)
Leftward shifts are not only more likely to happen, they are the rule.
The idea is not that the skills are wholly transferable from right to left–I can’t think of any catcher that became a short stop. The skills on the right side of the spectrum are more rare so if a player does change positions, it will be in some way from right to left on the spectrum.
Also, take it with a grain of salt. It doesn’t mean that Murphy can’t be the team’s 2B. In fact, I hope he is. I just don’t think anybody can count on it.
I still disagree and there are many instances in which those moves have happen. How many CF have moved to 3B. Now how many 3B can you count that have moved to 2nd?
Plus, if you notice it goes from premium, up the middle, postions, to those where defense is less important.
I’m sure the progression is not meant to stop at every position. For example Delgado went from C – 1B with out any stops in between. But the thought of Delgado at SS is hilarious. Dale Murphy went from C to CF.
Catcher probably being at the far right because no one moves to catcher from some other postion.
Also the comment is “almost never” not “never”. So it sometimes does work but apparently the instances are few. And you could probably argue that a guy like Fonzie who went from 3b to 2b probably should have been at 2b to begin with.
I like Murphy a lot, don’t get me wrong but he’s not the right choice at second base. And his production out of first base would be Meinkiewicz like (Higher Average) without the good defense. Sign Orlando Hudson (Type A #1). Then trade for an outfielder and a closer. Preferably getting Holliday and Street. I know a lot of people don’t like Street but I think he is a young hard thrower who would give our bullpen some life. Then sign Burnett (Type A #2) and Garcia as well as Farnsworth and Oliver. We would be getting these pieces by trading/releasing Evans, Murphy, Show, Heilman, Castillo, Sanchez.
Lineup
1. Reyes SS (S)
2. Hudson 2B (S)
3. Wright 3B (R)
4. Delgado 1B (L)
5. Holliday LF (R)
6. Beltran CF (S)
7. Church RF (L)
8. Schneider, Castro C(L,R)
Rotation
1. Santana (LHP)
2. Pelfrey (RHP)
3. Burnett (RHP)
4. Maine (RHP)
5. Garcia (RHP)
Bullpen
Closer- Street
Set-Up- Ayala
Stokes
Smith
Oliver
Rincon
Farnsworth
Bench
Chavez
Castro
Reyes
Tatis
R. Martinez
GARCIA IS CRAP. AND NO WAY ARE WE TRADING MURPHY!
We could easily sign Garcia and if he bombs at spring training just use Niese and why wouldn’t we sell Murphy he has no where to play on this team so you might as well sell him at his highest value
For guys like Murphy you make a spot. You can’t trade him until you know what you have. He is too popular. If he can’t play 2nd then you leave him in LF and get a 2nd baseman. If he can’t play LF then you put him at 1B and trade Delgado. I know his production won’t make up for Delgado but he is around for many more years than Delgado and much cheaper. You can use that money to replace Delgado’s production elsewhere.
trading murphy might be one of the most foolish moves you could make.
I don’t know where to start. No way we have enough to trade for Holliday and Street, let alone one of them. And if our bench includes Reyes and R. Martinez, ouch.
Matt, you forgot to add ‘maybe’ – which is the right answer to this question.
I have my doubts personally. IMO Murphy is best suited as a super-sub. A little 2B, a little OF, a little 3B.
…in my opinion, for murphy to be even considered to be the Mets second baseman next season, it’s important he shows the ablility to play the position during his time in the afl…
Wow, I am certainly glad we have these Metsblog Analysts to tell us important stuff like this. I don’t think anybody would have figured out that Murphy would have to show he is adeuqate at 2B before he played 2B for a major league team. What a concept.
I have loved the O-Dog option. But another way to go would be playing murph at 2B, evans/easley/tatis at 1B, and trading Fmart, Heilman, and Kunz for Matt Holliday. Retain Ollie, sign Lowe and Krod. Trade delgado for Scott Downs or Sonnanstine or Edwin Jackson.