|
|
|
At his blog for ESPN.com, Buster Olney breaks down the potential teams that would fit free-agent 2B Orlando Hudson. 
As far as the Mets are concerned, Olney writes:
“It seems all but certain that the Mets will work to dump Luis Castillo, whose signing was a mistake, and Hudson would fit New York perfectly in so many ways. He would give the Mets tremendous defense at second, covering a lot of the ground on the right side that Carlos Delgado doesn’t cover, and as a switch-hitter, he would fit in perfectly between lead-off man Jose Reyes and those who follow. But beyond all the on-field pluses that he would provide, the chatty Hudson would give the Mets another guy who is comfortable with the media — and in this way, he would give relief to David Wright, Delgado and Carlos Beltran.
The guess here is that Hudson would really help the mercurial Reyes maintain a level of consistency, and help the whole team work through the cloud of doubt that will inevitably hover over the team next September, when questions about the 2007 and 2008 late-season failures will pop up.”
Other potential suitors listed by Olney include the White Sox, Indians, Angels, Cubs, Cardinals, Reds, Yankees and Diamondbacks.
Before dislocating his left wrist on August 9th, Hudson was hitting .305 with 41 RBI and 40 XBH.
 |
 |
 |
RSS 2.0 Both comments and pings are currently closed.
So, in other words - he would be a perfect fit.
Yes because he would be injured and overpriced. Perfect.
Look if he comes here for 4/32 then sure. But accounts have him looking for 5/60. No way.
couldn’t disagree with you more. this guy would be a great fit for the Mets and he is young and talented. have you watched him play? he is worth the investment. like Murphy but who says he can play 2nd. i understand in the arizona league he is mentioned as 1B anyway.
Need to get someone who can secure the position-we have been running guys in and out of there since Doug Flynn. hudson would be a great fit.
Agree to disagree. Hudson is not young anymore and is coming off 2 serious hand injuries. His production does not warrant the money he seeks. If Murphy can’t play 2nd then there are many things we can do but giving Hudson more than 4/32 should not be one of them.
but your missing the point..think about the money we would have to eat to unload castillo plus take on a 5/60 mil contract…thats alot of money we would waste on 2b when its not really a big priority over the bullpen and sp. You dont want to handcuff yourself by commiting to an area that doesnt really need help and impair your ability to address the areas that really need improving.
my comment was for metsfrenzy not real
Wow, I think you said it so right here, Dirty…..
The fact is that Hudson is at an age at which many second basemen significantly decline–or has everyone forgotten Roberto Alomar that quickly. Many people predicted Alomar’s drop-off as a Met, due to his age when we got him, and most people (myself included) ignored these warnings because of how well Alomar had done. He proceeded to stink up the joint and became a target for Mets fans’ hatred.
Face it, Jeff Kent is a freak of nature. Second base is a very physically demanding position which takes it toll on a player, with all the take-out slides and all. It did so with Alomar, Baerga, Sandberg, and countless others. And Hudson has a ‘headstart,” so to speak, since he missed most of the end of the last two seasons due to major injuries. And if he declines offensively, as we should expect him to do, all of his “clubhouse presence” will be useless, as light-hitting infielders will not garner much respect as leaders. See Julio Franco circa 2007 and Marlon Anderson circa 2008.
Great post Metsfan…..Castillo, Alomar, Matsui, Baerga, and Samuel….what a list.
2nd base is our Spinal Tap drummer position.
I think the Mets NEED Hudson. Looking back on this last season, it’s pretty clear. Hudson has a great fastball that can reach the upper 90’s and wicked off-speed stuff. I envision him getting 40 saves and being able to extend himself and get those tough 2 inning-saves when needed. Yes, the Mets will clearly sure up that big hole they have with Orlando Hudson.
No wonder there’s 6 posts a day about Orlando Hudson - WE NEED HIM. He’d solve all our bullpen woes.
and from time to time i guess he can play second or whatever….
ok, have seen the posts and I’m not totally disagreeing with the points raised. But he is going to be 32 - that’s not really that old for that position. I’m not saying through the bank at him - I’m just saying at least look into it. Who is going to play 2nd or are we saying we need to live with Castillo another 3 years-forget that. BTW-I did forget a mets second baseman who was decent in my earlioer post-Edgardo Alfonzo.
And yes, I realize he is not solving our bullpen - and 2nd is not necessarily a priority. But face it, we do have a problem there and we may not be able to get all the pieces filled.
he is 30 right now……please look up these guys info before bringing up points.
Dear sherlock:
he was born on 12/12/77 so that will make him 31 before he plays next year-if we sign him he will be going on 32. maybe you should check your reference points before posting remarks!
if he stays off the DL
Are comments getting blocked?
All the time.
So many times I’ve written long, flowery, extremely thought-out comments only to have them not post for no obvious reason. I don’t know if it’s because certain letters are placed beside other letters or what. I don’t understand the algorithm. I wish there were error messages to point out what exactly is wrong with the post.
that would be great…so tired of trying to dissect a post word by word to try and find the offending combination
The mercurial Reyes?
Oh please.
I agree with some of his sentiment but the talking to media stuff is way overblown.
Thanks Wagner!
Hurt down the stretch 2 years in a row, virtually the same injury if I remember. no thanks, he have Murph and other more pressing needs. Lets not just sign a guy because he “is comfortable with the media”.
He was hurt down the stretch two years in a row, but if I remember correctly, it was wrist injuries both times. Kind of a freak coincidence, not some habitual injury that you’d worry about (hammy, knee, back, etc.).
Coincidence or not you have a guy that has had season ending injuries to his wrist 2 years in a row. Also, his defense has declined during that time. Not to mention the fact that he wants 12-15 million a year.
Like shea_guevara said, Hudson’s injuries aren’t of the nagging sort that tend to recur, like a hamstring. That being said, his “not likely to recur” injury happened two years in a row–and down the stretch each time. And in 2007, he opted for season-ending surgery, rather than attempting to rehab and come back in time for the playoffs, which is a *big* “black mark” on his record that, for some reason, is not getting mentioned.
He went out on Sept 5th of ‘07. Highly unlikely that any rehab would have had him back in time for the playoffs. So no, it’s not a *big* black mark at all.
Well, “Dr. Slob,” while I would love to hear the basis for your comment, the news at the time was quite different. Not that anybody ever said that he could definitely get back in time for the playoffs by rehabbing, but it was expected that he would try. And then, all of a sudden, he announced he was undergoing season-ending surgery, deciding only a few days after the injury to not even try rehab.
Keep in mind, nobody thought Kent would be able to play again this year, and he made it back–after surgery, no less.
Kent stunk this year. He significantly dropped off.
And who cares if they are non-recurring type injuries? They are still injuries to his wrists, which hurts your ability to hit. Ask Carlos Delgado. I love Hudson, but no thank you.
The 2007 injury apparently didn’t hurt Hudson since his 2008 ops+ was the highest of his career.
supposidly he has a great clubhouse demeanor..at least thats what has been reported on this site. He would be more of a sure thing at 2b than murphy (defensive wise).
Obviously, but he would cost about 10 times as much.
agreed…I mean people are not even taking into cosideration we will have to eat alot of castillos contract to get rid of him. Then to add more payroll on top of that….
I’m not sure why people are so crazy about signing a free agent 2b like that was the reason we didn’t win.
Exactly like Odog’s production alone over Castillo’s next season would magically make us that much better. Take a look at their REAL production using 2007 as a guide for Castillo. Castillo scored more runs in 2007 than Hudson ever has.
I don’t want to go with Castillo either but thinking that Hudson is worth the buyout of Castillo AND the 12-15 million a year is insane.
runs scored is more about who hits behind you, and last time i checked hudson has never had THREE 100 RBI guys behind him.
I just dont know. I mean if he comes relitivly cheap omar should press the trigger but then i feel like we are wasting our time with murphy…..
I guess IF you could get him for 8-10 million a year and leave Murphy in LF or trade Delgado and sign a LF then it works. To me it’s just not necessary the way so many make it out to be.
what part is not necessary?
Hudson at 2B.
agreed. Kingman has a pretty good layout of the plan with murphy should be. Have murph start and replace him if needed for defensive purposes with easley. Of course the mets need to address other issues first but i guess we will see. Omar as you said real shouldnt go nuts with odog
Not necessarily. Murphy/Evans make for an excellent LF platoon. The offense actually started to go downhill when Jerry inexplicably switched gears and stopped running platoons out there in both corners.
Evans v. LHP: 79 PA, .319/.380/.514/.894
Murphy v. RHP: 138 PA, .306/.391/.455/.846
Yea i know but they are a defensive liability out there. They got murph playing in 2b for what i guess is my point if they are not even going to use him there and sign odog?
They are just inexperienced. Both are athletic enough to play an average LF at least.
I dunno. If possible i would like some stability next year. I want daniel playing against L pitching and i want evans available to PH(since he kills L).
I am ok with Murphy playing every day, too. But we don’t know that he will hit major league LH pitching consistently. There needs to be a platoon fallback plan in place.
agreed and like we have said evans is available if dan cant handle it…although something tells me he wont have too much of a problem. Theres just seriously SOOOOOOOOOO many options its rediculous going into the offseason……….
Yep, Omar has a lot of different things he can do.
Do you really want a fulltime platoon? Is that really what is best for Murphy and Evans? Does that protect the lineup from a Delgado decline? Too many if’s.
Did you see what our production was out of LF last year before the Murphy/Evans platoon?
It is a SEVERE upgrade from what we got from the position last year. Severe.
tatis did pretty good….
Tatis did most of his damage playing RF. We had Marlon, Endy, Angel Pagan and various other losers playing LF after Alou got hurt and before the rookie platoon.
We were getting about 40% below the league average offensively from those guys. That is horrendus.
If the Mets are serious about courting 2nd-basemen, they wouldn’t be trying to get Murphy to learn 2B. I think they would much rather put Murph at 2B and go for a LF and pitching options. We can’t sign or trade for everything we are missing.
I hope you are right. As long as Murphy can handle 2B (and the early reports from his limited playing time there in the minors suggested he can), there is no reason to go after Hudson when there are so many other needs, all of which are much more pressing.
I just do not get the obsession with this guy.
Hudson is going to be 31 in 2009, and is coming off two pretty big injuries.
He is a 3-time Gold Glove winner and has good “clutch” hitting stats, but there is absolutely nothing else in his career that ranges above the pretty good, in any category. And he has never played in the postseason. And his career has been spent in the very un-New York-like environs of Toronto and Cleveland.
Why would we spend tens of millions on an over-30, possibly now injury prone, pretty good 2nd baseman?
I know that we need change, but why not spend the money on pitching? Murphy is playing second right now, and while it is indeed very tough to learn to play 2nd and turn the double play, why not give him a shot with Easley as insurance?
Oops, meant Toronto and Arizona of course…must have been thinking about Robbie Alomar…..
“Murphy is playing second right now, and while it is indeed very tough to learn to play 2nd and turn the double play, why not give him a shot with Easley as insurance”
-If the mets plan to go with murph that would have to be the plan right there.
that screws us for the “defensive” replacement late in games. Both players would be sub-par defensively.
true but easley while not the best defensive 2b is better than evans and i would prefer having easleys bat in the 2 hole than awful reyes….
better than murphy*
I get this point but Omar certainly values defense at 2b so I would wonder if Easley is the back-up
yea…maybe he can find a better option on the market as we could use an upgrade on our bench….
Although I have no problem with Easley, I would not be surpised to see him gone next year, which would mean Omar would definitely need to find a replacement for him on the bench. Whether he does so with a solid righthanded bat, or a defensive-minded middle infielder remain to be seen. With Evans around, though, I would go for the defensive-minded middle infielder (of course, he would have to be able to hit some, or else we could go with Argenis Reyes).
Hudson never played for Cleveland
Yes, thank you, as I immediately posted below my original post, I know he was in Toronto. Even the folks who can correctly evaluate Hudson’s career and worth can make mistakes…..
Isn’t Hudson pretty much Castillo except with a bad wrist 2 years in a row instead of bad knees?
Kinda. He hits for more power but has no production to show for it. He K’s more times than he has Runs or RBI’s.
Is not playing in the post season supposed to mean something?
I’m starting to think I wouldn’t mind if the Mets used next year as a tweener. Meaning: no crazy FA signings this winter, keeping our picks and picking well, further developing the farmhands we have, and if possible, making artful trades of veterans for youth. We have an excellent core in place for at least three more years. I’m not saying give up all hope for next season–we’ll be competitive even if didn’t change a thing–but changing direction from the feeling of “must win now” to patience, and taking advantage of time to “thicken”.
Due to the results of the last 2 seasons, Omar will never waver from the “must win now” approach. He is going to want to nip this “choke” issue in the bud as soon as possible.
very good point.
I agree that’s probably true.
You know, as much as I am the first one to say break the bank and sign Manny, CC, a setupman, and trade for a closer, your suggestion makes plenty of sense too.
honestly, if they decide to break the bank and get those top guys, whatever, fine, it’s their money, and I’ll have fun watching them. I just think we can stay competitive and deepen our team at the same time by not chasing those guys (because I also happen to think they’re not going to be worth the $$ they eventually get on the back ends, and I’d like that to be someone else’s problem).
Next year could never be a tweener year if it is Delgado’s last year. There is no guarantee that any big FA 1b are out there after ‘09 with younger players get signed earlier and for longer.
I think the complete opposite. This year is the win now in the worst of ways. After the past 2 years and Delgado in his final year they need to go all out and get it done now.
so maybe we trade Delgado midseason to a contending team with need for a good 1B prospect. Maybe Carp’s development this year was real and continues. I think each year of “win now” feeds on itself…this will be the third “must win now” year in a row. Time for a break.
Carp is a DH and we play in the NL.
thanks, I thought we played in the NBA
whether you believe Carp’s a DH or not, we’re eventually going to need another 1B anyway. Who knows how he’ll develop - Players can improve their skills, after all - or who’ll be available. And building the team around the idea that we’ll definitely get the same production from Delgado next year is just as dicey as hoping the kid develops.
It definitely is important to have a contingency plan for Delgado. We got away with not having one this year, because he miraculously turned it around in the second half, but it would be foolish to ignore the possibility that he declines.
That being said, we also cannot make Carp into a first baseman just because we want him to be one. All of the scouting reports indicate that he is a hitter without a position–i.e., a DH–so we should not ignore that. Trade him to an AL team who can handle it if he never can field any position while he still has value as a hitter. We have glaring needs, will need good prospects to pull of trades, and have no use for Carp, who still is considered a good prospect. Carp is a clear-cut trade chip.
The Mets should deal Delgado and Carp in this off-season. Just put the Murphy/Evans platoon over there to hold it down, and sign Floyd and Baldelli to platoon left field.
You do know that Baldelli suffers from some mitochondrial disease that is a threat to his entire career, right? Add to that the fact that Floyd is injury-prone, too, and that is a dangerous platoon you are asking for. Just think, instead of wasting one roster spot on an injury-prone leftflieder in Alou, we would be wasting two roster spots on injury-prone leftfielders in Floyd and Baldelli. That’s the exact opposite of what the Mets should be doing.
i’d thought baldelli recovered? I guess not.
Can someone tell me why Minaya-posterboy Bugos is still on this team?
clueless….you sir…are clueless
Thanks for playing. Do you know the answer?
he is in jail dude, pretty much as good as gone.
The fact that you say Minaya Posterboy is laughable…give up on the hatred, you have NO clue about anything
The “poster boy” comment is silly, meaningless, and maybe even offensive to some.
Burgos is in jail in the Dominican waiting for trial, and while he does seem to be a true piece of garbage, there is this concept in America called “innocent until proven guilty”, and while the Wilpons and Omar are surely horrified with this, and while Burgos will surely never appear again in a Met uniform, and while he is in a jail cell as we speak, perhaps they are waiting for the legal system to run its course?
Just a thought…..
Or the fact that it is not as easy just to release a guy with no real cause until after the trial. Also, you let it play out and you most likely will owe him no money instead of releasing him and him getting paid or filling a griveance.
you’re right except he’s not getting tried in america so the whole “innocent until proven guilty” doesn’t fly.
I think whats going on is that Murph is playing 2b in the AFL …. if they trade castillo, and are not able to sign/trade for another 2b….he plays 2b if capable..if they can’t trade castillo…obviously castillo is in the mix and if they sign o , then murph goes back to LF….
Exactly. They are giving themselves some options. IF Murphy shows he can handle 2B, then the Mets have any number of things they can do this offseason to address 2B/LF. If he can’t handle it, then Murphy will likely play LF.
They just want to figure out how to get his bat in the lineup.
Right. Guess we will have to wait and see.
The other thing is this at least gives him more experience at the position that he can play both LF and 2b. We have seen so many other teams who have regular everyday players switching from position to position over the course of the season to put the best line-up possible on the field for that given day. It will allow a lot of flexibility
Yep, and we have our fair share of injuries every year, that’s for sure. Whatever flexibility we can build onto the 25-man roster is absolutely advantageous.
If the Mets sign hudson…they tie up too much money in both the O-dawg and what they have to eat on Castillo’s contract
that means no Tex or Mannym unless we just dont plan on signing any pitching
so…this deal makes absoluletly no sense
2b is not the issue, a power-hitting, heart of the order threat that has a high avg w/RISP is what we needed…O-dawg is a nice player that is best left alone or as a fallback option if we miss out on guys like Tex, Manny, or Bradley
We aren’t gonna sign Tex or Bradley anyway.
Can you also tell me the winning numbers for the next drawing?
Signing Hudson and dumping Castillo (even though we’ll eat most of his salary) sounds good to me. Hudson is obviously not a huge impact guy, but he plays very good defense and he’s a consistent .270 - .280 hitter. From all reports, he also seems to be a good guy and positive presence. This isn’t a huge move, but a good one if we can get it done.
I could then live a Murph/Evans LF platoon with an eye toward Murph possibly replacing Delgado in 2010.
It is a huge move if he gets the 12-15 million for 4-6 years like he is seeking. Which do we need more, Hudson for 12 million or another starter. The Mets are not going to spend more than 42 million this offseason. That leaves you 30. Then you take Delgado’s 12 that leaves you 18. That will get you 1 SP or Krod. No boths.
1st of all the Mets are loaded so money is not a concern. It’s a tough call on who to sign between O-Dawg and Manny. If Manny was willing to agree to a 3 or 4 year deal he wouldn’t be a terrible fit, but 5 years is too much in my opinion. I think Murphy is more suited for the infield than the outfield, but his defense is still a question and O-Dawg could help Reyes in the field. It’s a really tough call. Either way we should at least sign one of them and trade for a SP like Peavy. The bullpen still comes 1st in my opinion.
Money is a huge concern to an extent. The Wilpons will not go over the luxury tax. Thus we have about 42 million to spend after all the raises and cuts are made.
Mets are not as “loaded” with money as you may think. You go to think they got to address Closer/Bullpen/2Sp and secondary priorities LF/2B/Bench with about 35-40 mill.
Exactly, I can’t remember how I came up with it but I figured about 42 million a few months ago factoring in everything and going up to the luxury threshold.
That goes down to 30 if they resign Delgado. If you sign Hudson that leaves 18 million for 2 SP a closer and more bullpen help. Not to mention it takes no pressure off the offense really.
sign Manny! Trade for Peavy!, and sign K-Rod!
yep. Im sure your right with 42 million as an exact number..i just chose that range because i was being conservative about our resources and trying to show we dont really got THAT much money to do everything that we want..but i believe enough to plug up the major holes.
Money is always a concern. Twins owner Carl Pohlad is the richest of all the team owners, and you see how small the Twins’ payroll is.
What you guys don’t get is that the Mets are trying to turn 2nd base back into an average price that is not hurting us later.
If you teach Murphy to play 2nd and have to eat Castillo’s contract then you are essentially paying Murphy 3/20 to play 2nd. If you sign Hudson you are paying Hudson 5/78 if you eat Castillo’s contract.
Do you guys not see this?
I get wat ur saying about the money, but lets face it we do have alot of money lol.as long as it doesnt prevent us from getter a solid bullpen and good starting pitching whynot sign orlando. and if hudson helps us get into october this year, and possibly farther its worth it.
But offense was not really a HUGE issue this year. I do not think we have alot of money but enough that if used properly can fill alot of holes and make the team stronger. We have more important issues to address first and i dont want this contract + eating castillos contract(so basically we are paying for 2 2bmen for one) to tie us up financially.
Thats true offense wasnt as bad an issue. I wont lie, i really want hudson cus he could do so much for the team, defense, offense, in the clubhouse, huge upgrade at 2nd base. But i think first priority is bullpen, and since we are losing 2 starting pitchers starting pitching is gonna be important to. If we can find a way to get rid of castillo in a trade and make that team pay for the remaining contract though, hudson should be signed
agreed. I like what i have read about his personality so far but with all the other issues we got..i dont think he will bring enough back to warrent the investment.
The problem is that there is no reason to believe that it *wouldn’t* prevent the Mets from fixing their bullpen or adding one or two starters. Yes, the Wilpons have a ton of money, but that does not mean there is nio limit on the payroll.
I don’t get you people. If you don’t want Hudson, then who do you want at second? Castillo, a broken down clubhouse cancer who can’t get a hit to save his life? Or do you want Murphy, a dude who isn’t even considered a rookie yet that has played like 5 games at second base?
id rather have a upgraded bullpen, deep starting rotation and murphy at 2b(with someone on the bench for a defense replacement) than signing hudson and omar having to piece together junk to fill holes….
No one wants Slappy McCrappy back.
I think that 2nd base is FAR from the top of our list of priorities (see: bullpen, another innings-eating starter, one more big bat, and bench improvements).
Murphy is obviously who the Mets want at 2nd, as he is playing there right now. With Easley and maybe Martinez as backups–or, as Dirty posted above maybe another backup 2nd basemen that we can acquire cheaply who can field and improve the overall bench–we will be fine at 2nd. Maybe Murphy can do it, maybe he cannot, but if he can hit anything like what he showed flashes of this year, we can afford a trial period. If by May it is clear that at 2nd he is like Piazza at 1st or Hundley in left, well, we play Easley/Martinez/a new guy and hopefully have made enough other improvements that this will not cause the team major grief.
Respectfully I ask–have you really looked at Hudson’s career, age, and injuries?
I have seen his injuries and age, but I’m not too clear on his numbers.
Plus I think Murphy playing at 2nd now might be a back up plan. Maybe not.
Cool, Los Mets…I agree that Murphy is far from certain to be able to handle second defensively, but with Wright and Reyes very capably manning the left side, maybe we can afford to try it for a month or two, with Easley and another backup.
I guess my main thing with Hudson is his numbers. They are really not all that great. Sure, he is a good offensive player, but thus far not anything close to great, and he is almost 31, which is an age at which very few players significantly improve offensively.
Especially in the age of big-time drug testing. All of these big improvements in players in their thirties should be considered a thing of the past.
Murphy has a good bat but hes definently not gonna be a really good defensive 2nd baseman. if he practices 2nd he will obviously get better, but he just doesnt seem as the fast, double play turning type. I like how everyone talks about murphy as a solid good hitter now. He showed potential , but hes only had around 140 ABs or something in the major leagues. Hudson should be signed as long as hes not asking for some crazy price. He wants to be a met so if we offer him something reasonable and a decent price we might have a deal. Hes got a bat, hes got a glove, and hes good off the field to.
Hudson *is* asking for a crazy price, though–that’s the problem.
Bring on the O-Dog! IMMEDIATELY!
Hudson is am absolute must.. he is one of the MAJOR answers to the mets problems..everyone always talks about no heart..well hudson has a ton of it..he is an awesome acrobatic defensive player, a switch hitter perfect to hit in the 2 hole, he brings heart drive and EXCITEMENT to the game..he is ALWAYS AGRESSIVE. thats how he go hurt this past year..he will rake up x base hits..i see him as the second coming (presence wise) of jose valentin…the team played hard and focused (esp reyes) with valentin there and hudson would have the same effect..u need that hard nose player..and everyone needs to stop sayin he is old..he is 31..what you want a 22yr old rookie to “see” what he has got…HUDSON is a MAJOR key to this team defensively, offensivly and heart…a no brainer
yup…….it wasn’t just the bullpen. the mets need to sign O-Dog, and then make trades for everything else. Get creative Omar!
Delgado, Fmart, Kunz, Heilman, Sanchez, Schow, Castillo, Ike Davis, Carp, Evans, Schneider, Pagan ALL should be available for trades.
Targets should include: Sonnanstine, Edwin Jackson, Balfour, Howell, Scott Downs, BJ Ryan, Soria, Duchscherer, Street.
Also, the Japanese pitching market should be explored for relievers, closers, and SP.
Ollie should be re-signed. I know he blows up sometimes, but he owns the Fish, Phils, Yanks, and Bravos. Does CC? Not sure.
I’d rather look into trading for Brian Roberts. Hudson just came off of a major wrist injury at age 31. Some great hitters wouldn’t be able to recover from that, and Hudson was only ok to begin with.
Hudson would be as big of a mistake as Castillo.
I’m really surprised to see how many people really buy into the notion that Murphy is a feasible option at 2B. I give him little chance of being adequate. The reports on his defense at 3B in the minors were not great. The jury is out on whether he could even play acceptable D at 3B in the majors.
It makes sense for the Mets to stress strong up-the-middle defense. They are going to continue to play in a pitchers’ park, and even with a flyball-oriented staff (which we may or may not continue to have), it’s really important to have middle infielders who have some range and can turn the DP. The strong run we had prior to mid-September coincided with a near-historic streak of near-errorless ball.
Whether getting Hudson is a good idea or not is another question. But Murphy at 2B is a square-peg/round-hole situation. My guess is that the Mets are giving him time at 2B in AFL to see if they can use him as a multi-position guy — get him 440-450 ABs playing at several positions, like Mark De Rosa. Speaking of which, having De Rosa at 2B was not to the Cubs’ benefit in the NLDS.
Murphy as an everyday 2B is an idea that should be tabled indefinitely.
There is just as much of a reason to believe that Murphy can handle second base as there is to believe he cannot play second base. The Mets are trying Murphy out at second base in the AFL, not on the spot in the majors. He supposedly did well in his brief stint at second base in the minors, so hopefully he can do so on a permanent basis. Maybe he cannot, which means the Mets cannot go into 2009 without a fallback plan but, unless he proves incapable of playing second base in the AFL, there is no reason not to try him there in 2009–at least to start the season.
No matter how condescending your tone, you do not know anything the rest of us do not. We are all going to find out about Murphy’s ability to play second base together. And, since his limited time there has been a success so far, there is reason for optimism. There needs to be caution, too, though, since his experience at second base *is* limited.
And we don’t “know” yet if you or I could play 2B well, either.
I’m sorry, it’s not condescending. It’s just common sense. I don’t believe that there is “just as much reason” to think Murphy can be a good defender at 2B as that he won’t. The odds are really against it. Most quality defensive 2Bs were successful middle infielders in the minors. Murphy did not get high marks for his defense at 3B in the minors. It’s rare for players who are at best average at one position to become good at positions that are more difficult on the defensive spectrum. I don’t credit vague reports that his time 2B so far has been “a success,” because the Mets have a vested interest in saying so. This is the exact same thing the Mets said when they raved about how well Kaz Matsui was learning to turn the DP, blah blah blah.
I guess there’s a possibility that he could be OK. But I don’t want the Mets wasting time and opportunities on that hope. If they have an opportunity to get a high-quality 2B — and I think Hudson qualifies — I don’t want them to hesitate because Murphy might work out, and just rely on a “fallback plan” such as 39-year-old Damion Easley.
i agree…..pelf needs a strong infield D, as does joe smith, kunz, and derrick lowe (if we got him). but defense isn’t a fantasy stat.
More and more I wonder if this franchise isn’t better off burning it now- break up this core of losers, stock up, and build a proper team the proper way.
Because in the NL, the following teams are as good or better than the Mets, and most of their cores are younger and better to boot:
Phillies Marlins Cubs Brews Dodgers DBacks Cards
That’s a lot of competition, including 2 superior teams in their own division (and you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think the fish will be rough customers next year, they have great pitching. Better than ours overall)
What do we have? Johan is a beast, after that we have a core of chokers who are destined to be broken up in 2010, the worst BP in baseball, lots of holes, and a mediocre GM.
I see very little hope for the future of this franchise, and anyone who does is an optimist of the highest order
The window on this team is shut, latched and bolted.
all the teams besides the brew, dodgers and dbacks dont have more than 1 core guy that is as young as wright reyes or pelfrey and those teams have worse sp’s (dodgers and brews without sabathia and sheets) or no big time sluggers (dbacks)…mets have wright and reyes and pelf all 25 or younger…mets have a fine future, and have the best sp in johan, in the game, which all those teams dont have…utley howard and rollins are all in their prime now, and burrell is gone after this year since howard and hamels are due big contracts…all we need is a solid bullpen…if we closed 5-10% of the blown saves last year we are in the playoffs….so dont sound so bleak
marlins have young core but how long before they trade them off? besides hanley, they are planning on shopping all of their position players…nolasco and johnson are nice but the others are question marks…
I’m a little surprised by all the enthusiasm for Hudson.
He’s missed the end of the last two seasons due to injury. He’s an ok hitter, nothing great though.
There’s talk that he’s good in the clubhouse and with the media. But has he played in NY? All bets are off in this town.
It’d be amazing if the Mets had a solid and dependable 2B. No doubt. And Hudson would be very good. But people are talking like he’s a potential guardian angel.
Personally, I’d be much more excited if Brian Roberts became available.
Hudson isnt no guardian angel but would be a great upgrade at second base and a good player overall. can hit for average, gold glover, and even if he cant handle the new york media as long as hes good in the clubhouse and gets along good with the team whynot get him? besides, i dont think he will have nearly as much of a problem in new york as castillo has already.and just because hes never had a chance to play in a new york environment doesnt mean he cant handle it.
But a solid piece to the puzzle. I’m all for grabbing O. I also want us to get Derek Lowe. Then somehow trade for Soria.
Manny Ramirez would be the perfect fit on the mets…left fielder, right handed, clutch…..not to mention he would take ALOT of pressure of of mr. wright….last year everyone was expecting a lot from wright which put alot of pressure on him…..if manny comes to town, all the pressure will be on him which he can take and wright will feel alot more comfortable.
Ok, we know all the positives that come with Manny. There are some negatives too. Also, I wonder whether the Wilpons are going to tie Omar’s hands with “a budget” as they have in the past.
When we begin to learn what the realistic value of Orlando Hudson is going to be, that’s when we’ll begin to know if he’s a Met.
Trading, buying out or dumping Castillo is a necessity. Even releasing if it takes it it. I’m going to guess Hudson gets around 12-13 Mill a year at 3-4 years. I don’t think the Diamondbacks will give him that money. He’d make a great fit. But it’s a lot of money to throw at a position where we may alreay have a guy - Murphy. We need that money for the bullpen. Plus, we’ll have to see how the Manny thing plays out.
All I know is the main priority has to be the bullpen because the rest of the roster won 100+ in my mind. The second thing needs to be to sign a 3 type pitcher like Lowe or re-sign Ollie. And than you work from there.
I don’t know about you guy’s, but if I don’t see a new closer and at least one set up men I won’t watch next season. All I’ll do is check in to see the box score and I’ll laugh at all the people who stuck around. We need even more than that, but at least getting that is necessary.
I honestly don’t fully understand this love affair for O-Dawg. Yes he is a fine player and I would love to have him hitting behind Reyes and playing a good second base. The signing of Hudson would hold us back in many ways.
-tons of money tied up at 2nd with Castillo
-he doesnt help any of the major concerns
-he will take one of the type A free agent spots we can sign of 3 if Ollie leaves (which hopefully he does)
-most importantly he isnt a PITCHER or game changing hitter
I am all on board for signing Manny…bring in the power and average… .332 37 and 121 combined for the year…the dude can flat out rake. Then use everything you have left to get pitching.
Hopefully that Castillo for Byrnes deal could be worked out because that would be fantastic.
Reyes
Beltran
Manny
Wright
Delgado
Byrnes
Murph
Catcher
PItcher
Yeah, I agree. I mean if it comes between Manny and Hudson being in the line up, it’s no question Manny. It’s more the circumstances that’d tell if it’d be worth it or not. From next year and ‘10 perspective, Manny’s the guy you’d want. But Hudson would probably be the guy we wish we had in ‘11 and ‘12.
Manny is pretty much guaranteed 4 years. They’ll be someone out there willing to give him 5 so if the Mets expect to get him it will take that. With Hudson, I think it’ll take 4 years. Probably ranging from 52 to 60 Mill. It’s a lot of mone to throw at the second base position with Castillo’s 18MM being there.
If it were up to me, I’d take C.C. Sabathia over both of them. Try to swap Castillo for Byrnes so the money is not a total waste. And in the OF, look to a guy like Casey Blake. We don’t need a stud at every position. Give me Fuentes, Lowe, Blake one or two decent set up men and I’m happy.
With Murphy playing 2B of course. If not, I’d look to Ray Durham. The 2B market is thin outside of the expensive Hudson. They can look via trade too.
I think Manny will be willing to sacrifice extra money for more years. As I would believe the same about Oliver Perez. Ollie’s the kind of pitcher that can win 20 one year and be out of baseball the next so I can see that. And Manny’s old.
So I don’t know how worth it is to get Manny. The Dodgers will have to be somewhat hesitant considering the Pierre and Andruw Jones signings. That’s 27MM annually for two guy’s who weren’t evn in the their starting line up in game one of the NLCS.
I think it’s reasonable to expect Manny to keep being Manny for at least two more years. From there, I’d expect him to be alright. A decent hitter who’ll get some clutch kids. He may get hurt or require more rest. Some one will give him 5 years. In my opinion, pitching wins. And C.C. is the guy who the Mets should could before Manny and Hudson. These are all optional boosts though. Basically the kind of thing that requires the Wilpon’s to open up their wallets.
Signing a Lowe or even Lohse is a must. We need that in losing Ollie. And getting a closer like Fuentes and a set up like Springer or Biemel is too. If it weren’t for acquiring Johan last season, most people would have thought our offseason was a disaster. I’m not going to be naive. Signing one Manny and using Duaner Sanchez to set up games in the 8th doesn’t work.
So………when are we getting Manny??
How does this look for opening day?
SS - Jose Reyes
2B - Orlando Hudson
CF - Carlos Beltran
LF - Manny Ramirez
3B - David Wright
1B - Daniel Murphy
RF - Ryan Church
C - Brian Schneider
P - Johan Santana
that would be a monster lineup the question is who would be pitching in the 4 and 5 hole and closing out games for that squad.
I guess you propose trading delgado for some arms, but he isn’t going to land you the closer we need. Unless you sign Fuentes but now your looking at spending over the luxury tax so I doubt you will be seeing that lineup to start the year.
would be friggin sweet though
typical that the usual suspects who are republicans on here don’t want O-Dog. Hmm wonder why that is?
They want us to have the worst infield defense, with a 39 year old as our backup for defensive purposes!
They want the same team, devoid of balls and leadership, devoid of standing up to a fight.
Castillo will get swapped for basically anybody who will take him and his contract. And btw, Manny is awesome, but he’s no Philly killer, and as such what’s the point? I hope he proves me wrong the next week.
Defense helps pitching, it makes all pitchers better. Re-sign Ollie, get Lowe and let Maine close! Trade Delgado for a setup man!
If signing Hudson does not compromise addressing the more important areas that must be upgraded, e.g. the bullpen, then it would definitely be worthwhile.
Consider poor Pelfrey pitching with an infield of Murphy at 2nd and Delgado at 1st. The ground crew will have to make sure that the infield is very, very slow.
The dude is watching his zone rating dropping faster than the market. Zona’s letting him go before he turns into Luis Castillo