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In the latest post to his blog for the New York Post, Joel Sherman takes a look at possible closer solutions for the Mets on trade market.
According to Sherman, Mets ownership has shown ‘indications’ they are uninterested in signing a high-priced closer while paying Billy Wagner’s uninsured 2009 salary.
Sherman believes the Mets may need to explore the trade market for an undervalued closer, such as the Marlins RHP Kevin Gregg, Rockies RHP Manny Corpas and Brewers RHP Eric Gagne.
…this is where i believe Omar Minaya is at his very best…minaya and his staff are very slick at acquiring undervalued talent, a la Fernando Tatis…
…while most believe the Mets should break the bank for Francisco Rodriguez, i’m in the camp that believes the Mets should try and address the closer role via trade or from within, with a guy like Bobby Parnell, Eddie Kunz or John Maine…
…there are far too many holes on this team to give krod a blank check and expect him to be the solution to the team’s bullpen woes…
may the freddie coupons jokes begin!!
*note the sarcasm
Very simple – 1.4 Mil Contract of Jesse Crain from the Twins in a trade. He was Joe Nathan’s setup man , and could bring it. If Twins did not sign Nathan, he probably would have been their closer. Probably a couple of minor leaguers would bring him here. Twins deep in the pen.
The built by the minors , so they could hit us again, but probably Single A – Would we give them Ike Davis ? I think so.
We trade Pedro, Heilman and Show to the BrewCrew for CC !!! Thats what we should do.
So you’re saying that the Twins will trade a major league set up man who was possibly going to be put into a closer role for Ike Davis? You’re kidding, right?
what sarcasm?
Ok, please dont yell at me for this one but consider the following to stengthen pen and 2b, while weakening slightly (at least defensively 2B).
(i) trade Beltran to the Yankees for Jaba and Cano/
This gives us a solid bullpen guy (and perhaps a closer) and a potential 2B. Add a niese to the deal if Yankees need some youth in return.
(ii) fill gap in CF by signing FA Mike Cameron who excelled with the Mets.
Note, this also clears payroll for further acquisition or trade to take on payroll.
second 2b reference should have been “CF” (centerfield)
No. Beltran will stay a Met until his contract expires. Then we go from there.
We will never, ever trade Beltran, and I doubt the Yanks would trade Joba…
However, trying to get Cameron back if he would maybe play right or swing between left and right is a very interesting idea.
THE YANKEES WILL NEVER TRADE JOBA FOR BELTRAN STRAIGHT UP!!! OR PRETTY MUCH ANY OTHER PLAYER IN HTE LEAGUE
Never trade anyone above the caliber of Armando Benitez to the Yankees. NEVER EVER!
Don’t kid yourself. Neither the Yanks nor the Mets would be interested in this deal. Don’t even try to compare Beltran to Cameron. Beltran is a MUCH better hitter. Cameron barely hit .250 in a much more potent lineup, and doesn’t play nearly as good defense (anymore). Plus, Beltran has become a leader on this club, why would the Mets want him gone? Beltran is comfortable here, he’s used to Mets fans and has learned the league’s pitchers. Why would he want to leave?
The Yanks, on the other hand, are holding on to a 23 year old who can throw 100 mph darts. Not only that, but he’s been groomed into a starter, not closer. They’re looking for him to become their ace, and simply put, there’s no value (other than Josh Hamilton maybe) that you can place on that, although there’s something to be said about the increase in Beltran’s production once he’s under the radar, taking a back seat to ARod, Jeter’s, Giambi’s and Mo’s profiles.
Cano is not even worth a mention here. Did anyone look up his stats? There’s absolutely nothing special about Robinson Cano, and we have plenty of guys with the same description who can man that position just as well. I’m sure we’d also much rather see Murphy developed into the position than Cano take it over.
Speaking of Murphy, are we really supposed to buy into the whole “playing 2B in the Winter League….that was something that was decided a while back before he actually came to the Major Leagues” What is this stuff Omar is feeding us? Obviously he can’t make an announcement now that Castillo is going to lose his job. It’s still October people, do you know how much drama that announcement will bring? It’s easy to downplay it now and then let Jerry make the announcement in ST or something. Have no doubts, however – come next season he’ll be there with a bat and a second baseman’s mitt in tow.
i know the person below is joking about looper, but looking back on it, i think looper did what he as supposed to…he served his purpose as a fill-in closer while the team rebuilt itself…sure it would have been great to sweep the yankees on the road in 2005, among other bad losses from that season, but you can’t fault a guy for pitching with an injury all season and never complaining…when looper was signed he was expected to bridge the gap to something (that something turned into wagner)…i’m not necessarily supporting looper, but i do think he did exactly what we all expected of him when he was first signed
also, it’s amazing how one game could change the outlook of a mets closer’s career (if looper held on against the yankees in 05 and if wagner didn’t blow the 4-0 game against the yankees in 2006)
looper was also pitching while hurt so we us fans did’t give him a fair shake
Omar has no magic at obtaining undervalued talent. He’s like all GMs who cast a wide net and get lucky once in a blue moon. Yay on Tatis, but let’s not pretend the Trot Nixon, Brady Clark, Ricky Ledee, Ben Johnson, Jeff Conine, Chip Ambres, David Newhan, Michael Tucker, Eli Marrero, Chris Woodward, and Gerald Williams stabs in the dark didn’t exist.
awesommeeeeeee
que? awesome??
NOT awesome.
How can ANYONE advocate finding a closer from within this system?!
Have you already forgotten the absolutely circus of a bullpen this franchise was showcasing at the end of this season?!?!
Finding a closer from within….that’s A-B-S-U-R-D.
maybe not absurd – unlikely yes – absurd – nahhh
So, basically, the Mets are going to be cheap with the most important part of the pen, which is what everyone agrees is the team’s biggest problem.
This makes ZERO sense.
BRING BACK BRADEN!
(joking… i think??)
i hope you are kidding i’d rather bring back rich rodriguez and mel (the armando clone) rojas
seriously though this may actually be a better idea,signing 2 of these guys, then spending money on a starter and offense
actually, i was hoping they’d sign 5 or 6 of these guys. A closer for every inning and for less money than krod!
btw guys just want to get your opinions – do you think with the economic downturn that we are experienceing that the owners will not shell out obscene contracts for the likes of k-rod c.c etc???
Rusty, I’m not an economist, but I play one in school. My humble opinion is that the trickle down won’t be felt for another year or two. At this point, some of the seats for 2009 might be paid for, so budgets are set. Come next year, I think that the number of corporate seats that are sold will decrease as companies tighten up, leading to the Mets feeling the pinch next year. At that point, any contract this year will already be a sunk/fixed cost.
you make a valid point – did u stay in a holiday inn express last nite??
Actually, the answer is: It depends. What does it depend on? How fast the economy can recover. If we think that this recession will last for 5+ years, then it will be felt everywhere: product sales, advertising revenue, ticket sales, food/beer sales. Note that the bulk of the revenue generated by MLB has nothing to do with regular ticket sales – if you do the math, it really is a minute amount. The richest teams are in the large market – and that’s not because they’re able to sell out games – but because they can generate enough popularity to drive other revenues up. A prolonged recession in an economy curbs consumer spending, which means that as a result all sources of revenue decrease. However, if the economy can rebound within a couple of years, the effect of what’s happened won’t trickle down to the majority of the population. That said, contracts already in place can be lost if any of their debtors go under (like if Citibank would go under, they’ll likely lose their $25m deal). Luckily, the government has realized that it’s easier to flood the markets now and feel a moderate degree of financial crisis rather than do nothing and fall into a depression for the next 20 years – so it’s unlikely that any other financial institution will follow the likes of Fanny and Freddie, and more likely that they’ll fall like Washington Mutual and Merrill Lynch – via a takeover that does not impact operations.
Bottom line – you’re unlikely to see cheaper ticket prices, so your world can only get worse. Sorry.
we still have claudio vargas and maybe the kid we got from the marlins (bostick) might pan out in relief
I think there’s a good reason why Gagne is “undervalued”. I think it has something to do with the fact that he can’t get anyone out anymore….
that and the steroids
Mike (Nichols), please remember to take your meds…
*correction
That joke should have been addressed to…
* Joel Sherman *
sherman i think forgot his hormone injections for his preop tranny procedure :P
Nichols should take his meds. he’s nuts wanting kunz or parnell as the closer.
Well, he can’t get anyone out anymore except for the entire Mets lineup. But, of course, that hardly makes him unique…
church and fmart for Putz
he said putz hehehehe
I just puked in my mouth…….
cuz he said putz?
No, because of the names mentioned as possible undervalued closers…….Gregg is a headcase and my sister pitches better than Gagne……
hell doug sisk pitches better than gagne
Nordberg, any idea what your sister’s contract demands for pitching are?
She would definately demand a manicure after every time she pitches…..
does she use palmolive :)
guys what about those guys that the giants released??? also the closer for the orioles might be available i forgot his name bautista ?? i know he shut the yanks down this past season
I would certainly take Tyler Walker and Kevin Correia. Don’t know too much about Hennessey, but the other two are exactly what you look for. Guys who have had past success and come relatively cheap.
Walker had a great start and then a few bad outings and the fans jumped on him, so a change of scenery sounds appropriate.
As for Correia, an injury seemed to slow him down, but he had been fairly decent in previous years. I would even go so far as to let him battle for the 5th starter with Heilman, with the other becoming the long man (if they were to sign CC Sabathia or get another big time starter to replace Ollie). I even agree with an off the wall article that the Mets should leave the lineup “as-is” and try and sign Sabathia and trade Fmart, Niese, and others for Jake Peavy, while moving Maine to closer.
Has anyone heard what it would cost to get the lefty closer from Japan?
Just looked at Hennessey. I’d even take a shot at him if it didn’t cost too much.
I’m suprised the Giants just dumped these three, although no one ever confused them with a well run ballclub.
Apparently they all cleared waivers more than once so they figured no team had interest.
gina i respect your opinion i mean i am a die hard but your knowledge of the everyday workings of the team and mlb is superior than mine would u try to get tyler corriea and put claudio vargas in the bp as a longman?
Kevin Gregg is the last guy you want to close games for you … he’s just another bullpen arm and he seems to crumble under pressure.
Gagne is an interesting guy to take a look at, because his 2nd half stats were actually very good. His biggest problem was control. He walked 16 in the first half and only 6 in the second half and his strikeout rates were much better in the last two months.
daniel cabrera from the oriloles – he was lights out against the yanks !!! could get him for a song – o’s don’t want him ne more
Yea…no way the O’s would want a 27yr old righty with dominant stuff….Even if they did put him on the block, its gonna cost considerable talent to get him….Cabrera was annointed the ace of the staff when Bedard was traded to Seattle. While Cabrera’s K’s were way down this year, its gonig to take something of substance to get hm
i heard the o’s were looking to shop him cuz he was unhappy there
Old Backstop, is Gregg really that bad? I thought he pitched pretty well in the 8th inning the last few months at the very least. Perhaps not to close games, but… considering the price we’d likely have to pay for him (i.e., not much) I think it would be worth kicking the tires.
Dude, I’m not sure you could say his 2nd half stats were “very good”:
3.52 ERA
6.65 K/9
1.00 WHIP (this is very good)
1.57 HR/9 (negates the good WHIP)
Not bad, not very good.
Small sample size, but no thanks on Gagne
Bobby Jenks might be available.
Jenks would be a nice add, but rather see Soria.
Gagne is a free agent.
no to the new wild thang
You have to be kidding Mike.. Omar at his best??? This where Omar is at his worst…
Does everyone forget Omar traded away his own bull pen solution?
Heath Bell?
Matt Lindstrom?
And what under valued talent did we get back in return?
John Adkins?
Jason Vargas?
Adam Bostick?
How did Matt Wise work out? Or the Show?
Tatis produced on par with other scrap heap guys like Edmons, and Werth… he’s nothing special except that he had a longer break inbetween productive years…
Adam Bostick is pitching well in the afl and mike tatis was in our minors for a year and a half .. he wasn’t a free agent he was a carfax reclamation project that actually worked in our favor for a change
So who would you rather have.. Lindstrom whose pitched well in the MAJORS the past two seasons.. or Bostick?
Stay away from K Rod, just go back and look at what Bobby Thigpen did after setting the saves record, and Gagne for that matter.
You have to find someone, someone fresh…..we may not know the name.
i agree with what u are saying – but someone posted b4 the 48 hour news blackout that if we kept lindstrom and bell the would have to be kept on the 40 man roster or face being made into mlfa or exposed to the rule 5 draft so it is possible omar mightve had his back to the wall
If our bench was full of “scrap heap” guys like Edmonds and Werth instead of offensive/defensive black holes like Easley, Anderson and defensive specialists we’re forced to give at bats too we might have made the post season.
Easley is no balck hole. He is a beam of light.
How about some of the successful undervalued talent he brought in?
Xavier Nady
John Maine
Oliver Perez
Fernando Tatis
Marlon Anderson (the 2005 version)
Now those guys have MUCH more of a positive impact than the guys you mentioned….At least look at it objectively instead of letting your anti-Omar bias (not that there is anything wrong with that) ruin your argument.
don’t forget jorge sosa his first 7 starts
They need to get a “REAL” closer they can not go into next season and experiment with somebody. Ther is no way they should even consider putting Manie in that spot. We need him in the rotation.
I would make a stong push for Putz.
i agree 100% this guy is very very very good and is young
No way a guy named Putz pitches in NYC. Not without changing his name.
is our power arm gonna be outta jail in time for ST?
our power arm is going to be a power bottom in the dominican republic prison leauge :P
I think John Maine would be a sufficient closer to if your worried about the other holes to fill. O wait now you have another starters hole to fill. I understand why not to go after K-Rod but I also know that the whys over-power the why nots. Its not as simple as we have a need, we have money and we have an availible record breaking closer. Well thats really what it boils down to. I think Murph has the natural infeilder tools to become a starting 2nd basemen to be a well developed number 2 hitter while shareing time with a vetern off the bench such as david eckstein or easley. As far as starters I think either sign Perez prefeiabliy or Lowe. Leave the 5 spot to Heilmen/cheap FA like Gracia/even Pedro if cheap until Niese is ready. I’d really like Byrnes in left but I’d be open to other options. Not too sure about Manny though, leaning towards no. I think the bench can be similar but gotta think about signing Eric Hinske as a true left handed pinch hitting specialist, like a better form of Greg Dobbs. lol
Dobbsy
Kevin Gregg??
AND KNOCK OFF THE JOHN MAINE AS A CLOSER TALK.
my god..kevin Gregg isn’t undervalued, in fact he is likely OVERVALUED!
kevin gregg is like eric gagne with even less talent
and less hair
Next year is going to be a very long year. You can pick up a player off the “scrap heap,” when he is a 4th or 5th Outfielder or an extra stick off the bench. You don’t pick up someone from the “scrap heap,” when you plan on making them your closer.
I totally agree with that.
The problem is that, despite K-Rod’s price tag and red flags, I think you have to sign him. He’s the best on the market and would give the team a lift, at least for the short term. And he’s be a better option than a scrap heap option like Gregg (who would be a servicable set up guy).
The other thing is that the Mets just don’t have that many trade chips. Most of the players at the big league level who we want to get rid of aren’t going to bring much back. So you are going to have to use free agency to fill most holes.
I agree, but to an extent. In general, you don’t want to pick up someone from the scrap heap, but there are more closers that you think who came from that talent pool…Remember, up until very recently, players were never groomed to be closers. Here is an abbreviated list of some closers who came from the undervalued pile:
Failed starters: Mariano Rivera, Billy Wagner, Eric Gagne, Joe Nelson, Kerry Wood, Bobby Jenks
Reliever Scrap Heap: Brad Lidge (v.2008)
Dennis Eckersley, Joe Nathan, Jonathan Papelbon, John Smoltz, etc.
don’t forget tug mcgraw
I meant Joe Nathan, not Joe Nelson. Paps and Smoltz I disagree with because neither one was undervalued. Injuries pushed them into the pen. Eck too.
I’ll only take gagne if there is a clause in his contract that he must go back on steroids
deal
I think we should sign K-Rod. Joe Beimel and Jeremy Affeldt shouldn’t cost much and would be good signings. And we’re getting an extra 20 mil. What’s the point of having money if you’re not gonna spend it?
If u got it, take it out yo pocket and show it!
Including the raises in Wright/Reyes/Santana’s contracts in 09, we are getting $32million off the books.
1b – delgado
2b – castillo
ss – reyes
3b – wright
c – schneider/castro
rf – church
cf – beltran
lf – murphy
of – anderson, chavez, evans, pagan
if – areyes
p – santana
p – maine
p – pelfrey
p – niese
p – parnell
p – show
p – feliciano
p – sanchez
p – kunz
p – smith
p – muniz
p – heilman
That’s pretty much the roster before spending the $32mil on arbitration raises, FAs or trades. Then there are minor leagu possibilities that have no ML service that have futures, such as F-Mart and Vineyard.
minaya and his staff are very slick at acquiring undervalued talent, a la Fernando Tatis…
I totally disagree. Omar is at best average at this. The only players he “acquired” who might fall into this category are Duaner and Maine (who was a throw-in). But his failures outnumber his successes.
I don’t think Omar has ever made a trade to equal Gillick’s brilliant pickup of Lidge last winter.
And Tatis really wasn’t acquired. He was a no-risk pick-up who spent the previous year at AAA. No one thought he would have a year like this.
I hope they are a player for K-Rod, regardless of what they’re saying publicly. Theoretically, trying to find a closer from within also makes a lot of sense. The problem with that route is Omar’s apparent lack of talent evaluation skills when it comes to bullpen arms. He tends to go after the Burgos-Julio types who never seem to pan out … while letting go of those who have proven they can succeed in NY and/or have a consistent track record of success.
I just want them to fix the pen. I don’t care how they do it.
FAHIII,
I think you can look at many of those points in 2 ways,
I look at the Lidge trade as more lucky than “brilliant”. Anyone can say the Lidge still had nasty stuff, but it was a matter of performing..and that surprised EVERYONE (including Phillies and mets fans).
Duaner was a great pickup and its been said since, Maine was NOT a throw-in, Julio was the throw in on that, but he was “MLB ready” right away.
And furioso, you aren’t even worth responding to
If you want to call the Lidge move lucky, it was lucky in this sense — Gillick was dealing with the inferior ex-Phillie GM who had an attachment to one of his ex-players who isn’t very good, something we’ve seen with other GMs (Bowden, Omar).
Otherwise, it was simply a brilliant move. He gave up virtually nothing and got one of the most precious commodities in the game back — a solid closer.
You’re totally wrong about Maine. Your version neither jives with the way events unfolded NOR with what’s been reported. If you recall, the deal as originally reported early that winter was simply Benson for Julio. Derision and criticism ensued, both in the papers and on fan blogs like this. Then we hear nothing for a few months. The deal finally resurfaces with Maine in it. So your scenario couldn’t have been right. Also, it was reported by Olney that Omar had to go back and ask for more (Maine) after he got panned when rumors of the initial deal leaked out.
So really, Omar only gets credit for Duaner, and partial credit for Maine.
faa we were all snickering when the philths got lidge – and they proved us wrong – tell me lidge wouldn’t of thrived for us in our pitchers park!?!
rusty, I was not snickering. Though I didn’t think he’d be this good, I felt he could be solid.
At any rate, how does anyone NOT make that deal? They gave up nobodies for someone who was just 30 and an elite closer just 2 years back. At worse, they don’t offer him a contract for 2009 and let him walk at the end of this season. It’s a no-brainer deal. Gillick was lucky that he was able to bamboozle Wade into making it and getting nothing back.
And of course Lidge would of thrived at Shea.
…this is where i believe Omar Minaya is at his very best…minaya and his staff are very slick at acquiring undervalued talent
—————————————————————————————
Like Burgos!
Like Ben Johnson!
Liek David Newhan!
Like Schoenweiss!
Like Vargas (from FL)
Dude, do you want the pitching equivilant of Tatis closing games for this club?
FUGH.
Go cheap at closer Omar…..you’ll get what you pay for.
No playoffs in 2009.
Yes playoffs in 2009.
furi tale som xanex
Win some lose some
Maine, Nady, Perez, & Sanchez were steals
Tatis isn’t that big a success story. He spent a season and a half in the minors before getting the call
Would anyone trade Beltran for Papelbon?
Wood chopping time. The hot stove is coming!
Like Nady!
Like Oliver Perez!
Like Maine!
Like Marlon Anderson (2005)!
Like Duaner Sanchez (2006)!
Great. But the list I provided shows that Omar isn’t “slick” at finding these hidden gems.
SF released a couple of useful guys. Give them a looksee
apparently the cubbies would like beltran so my proposal is this delgado and beltran for marmol, soto, theriot, and lee. this would get rid of the core i soooo hate for a decent second baseman, a solid closer, a younger first baseman, n a stud catcher. then trade schneider for a undervalued releiver. in centerfield, give f-mart a shot. if for some reason one or the other team doesnt feel this trade is fair add heilman or add a prospect from the cubs
I still don’t understand people hating Beltran..
i phrased that wrong i hate delgado, i believe last year he was just on a lucky streak, but i feel u need to make this team work harder, prove that ur not safe just cause of ur name, n trading 2 of ur core players is perfect especially wen u solve ur problems n let f-mart prove himself
We will never trade Beltran, and the Cubs liking Beltran and the trade proposed is directly from some Chicago writer’s recent piece speculating after HE read the ridiculous and totally made-up idea that we are listening to offers for Beltran, which we surely are not.
Beltran is still young, is an excellent all-around player, hustles his as* off on the bases and in the field, and most importantly, with LF open and Church a huge question mark, why would Omar even think of trading Beltran now?
I don’t think it’s “hating” him, but acknowledging that something has to change about the fundamental makeup of the team. Beltran is the oldest of the real blue chip trade prospects, and less of an offensive force than Wright or Reyes. No one is saying he’s a poor player — he’s a perennial All-star (or should be.) But if the Mets could turn him into two young players like Daniel Murphy (hypothetically), would anyone think they were worse off?
This team will not be “fixed” just by getting a couple bullpen arms. They have to at least explore fundamental, systemic change, and that means taking inquiries on star players. No more winning on spreadsheets and losing in the standings.
Oh, and that trade to the Cubs wouldn’t happen unless you threw in Murphy and then some. Soto, Lee, and Marmol for Delgado and Beltran? Not gonna happen.
Offense scored the 2nd most runs in the NL. For the final time, THE OFFENSE WAS NOT A PROBLEM IN 2008.
How do people not understand this? Fundamental change is only needed in the bullpen. BULLPEN BULLPEN BULLPEN BULLPEN.
And everyone needs to stop with the crackpot trade proposals. What a waste of time.
well if u had any common sense ud realize that our catchers offense stats were pathetic, delgado in no way is gonna have that much of a lucky streak again in 2009, beltran is a poor,pooor leader, and marmol and theriot solve our closer n second base problems, o and if we must include murphy who cares, honestly did anyone hear of him being a top prospect? NO, the kid just caught a brake
Why do you think Beltran is a poor, poor leader?
And don’t you think Murphy went from little-known prospect to top prospect based on his impressive success late in the year coming right from AA ball?
delgado and beltran for marmol, soto, theriot, and lee.
Derrek Lee is $13mil for 09 and 10, Delgado is $12mil for just 09. Lee had a down year but even still it may be a pretty decent deal if we gave them something else. Beltran is a premier CFer but he is still owed $18.5mil each of the next three years. The Cubs are selling their team and financial issues could be a problem for them, so taking that salary on and giving away Marmol and Soto, who are under control for years cheap, and Theriot, is probably not going to happen unless you throw in F-Mart, Niese and other top guys, or maybe with just J Reyes. And that is not a joke. Soto and Marmol are not going to be had for Beltran.
Closer JJ putz (trade church and fmart or hielman or whoever)
cruz (setup)
biemel (L)
affeldt (L)
smith (R)
parnell (R)
stokes (long man)
That right there would be a very very solid pen and would not cost too much..that would be signing 3 guys and who cares how much money they cost… they are good and remember how bad the pen was last year…it might need a lefty specialist but other than that i think this would be perfect….
Then sign manny and lowe and we are done and maybe garland (i didnt realize garland was only 29…i would defenitely take a chance with him…hes not too expensive and would be good as a 4 starter..and moving from the AL to NL is always better)
why would you trade fmart and a ton of people for a guy who will be 32 before the start of next season and has had 2 good seasons and this one was injury prone???
i never said who i would exactly trade for him…i didnt say i would trade fmart and a ton of guys….i was just putting players out there as options…he is 31 right now and his past 3 years have been good…he doesnt give up homeruns which our closers did too much of…
Dude, your proposal is literally impossible – Mets can’t sign 5 Type A/Type B free agents this offseason.
Do some research on this stuff.
dude i have a life…im not gunna spend my spare time researching how the mets cant get 5 free agents this offseason…why cant they?? since u have no life and do the research tell me why they cant sign lowe, manny, garland, and two relievers that would not cost much at all????
manny – 20 mil?
lowe – 10 mil?
garland – 8 mil?
two relievers – 4 mil?
thats around 40 mil
we are losing 20 to 30 so that means we would be spending about 10 to 20 million dollars next year.
Why cant this be done James K
Get Hitoki Iwase from Japan to set up, and FA Juan Cruz to close.
Good lefty-righty punch in the eighth and ninth.
or Koji Uehara….that guy has FILTHY stuff.
I think after the Mets address thir BP woes( middle relief ) they should go after Fuentes, yes K-rod did have all those saves
but his mechanics and violent delivery make him very suspect
coupled with the fact of volocity loss, his emotional makeup is another issue.
Considering these factors the asking price and amount of years makes this questionable or worst a disaster in the making plus with the money we save we can go after the PREMIRE RBI MAN OF THIS GENERATION,MANNY FREAKIN RAMIREZ.
You would want Manny when he’s NOT playing for a new deal? Really?
I’d rather have Fernando Tatis.
this is where OUR CURRENT GM is at his worst … building a team around a bunch of scrap heap guys and then taking credit when one or two of them work out.
are the keys on your keyboard worn out from typing the same thing all day?
You’re mean. :(
i would not touch eric gagne and his size 49 slacks at all. i would take a chance on kevin gregg – he pitched most of the year injured (and the marlins knew it) which hurt his stats however when he was healthy he was lights out.
link on the kevin gregg injury?
nevermind i found a link to the injury..
eh
Are you kidding me?! There’s a reason why these guys are undervalued! Throwing more mediocre relievers onto the roster solves NOTHING. All three of those guys mentioned are absolute trash.
I think Braden Looper and Armando Benitez are still available. How about Jason Isringhausen? Gagne has a HIGH ERA. This post actually angers me.
no armado please make the pain stop !!!!
How can you say there are far too many holes to not give K-Rod a blank check? You’re telling me that we wouldnt have made the playoffs(and almost definitely won our division) had we had K-Rod this year?
There is no other hole that we could fill that definitely would’ve gotten us into the playoffs.
The Mets need to sign a closer. End of story. I’d lay off Kerry Wood because of injury problems in the past, but I’d look into K-Rod and Fuentes as the best options out there. The reason why is these two guy’s are better than anyone who’s out on the market. Everyone who is out on the market is young and will command a lot of prospects in return. I don’t even consider Sherrill to be much of a closer with a 4.73 ERA so X him out. And B.J. Ryan has equivalent numbers, is the same age and gets paid 10MM a year – so wouldn’t signing Fuentes be smarter? Plus the Jays probably wouldn’t want to trade him anyway and he’s had Tommy John.
The Mets have 30+ Million coming off the books. Before adding or improving the strengths of the club (the offense), all of that 30MM should be used on a closer, a set up core and Oliver Perez or a replacement of him. The bullpen lost it for us. Not the SP’s or line-up. So address the weaknesses before putting icing on the cake.
I’m sorry but undervalued closer? what he means to say is a guy who doesn’t close anymore or who aren’t meant to close who omar would pray that he would work out, like Brian Stokes or Luis Ayala, both of whom are not closers. Once again they will be piecing together a bullpen…after what has happened the last 2 years, they better go get a real closer because that is just unfair to the fans
Exactly. It’s a total misconception that Ayala did well in New York anyway in my mind. He had a 5.50 ERA which was similar to the one he had in Washington. He got down some saves, but he blew some big ones too.
Carlos Delgado (while eating salary) for Mark Teixeira
Sorry — Carlos Delgado for Jose Arredondo
never going to happen.
If another team grabs Teixeira, than the Angels would definitely do it. If they want to win a world series, they need a power hitter to hit righties. Without tex, they won’t have that. If they don’t sign tex, then the get K-rod, and the need for Arredondo is significantly diminished.
How could anyone recommend the idea of John Maine being the closer when we haven’t addressed the void of Oliver Perez’s likely departure yet? We’re in need of a 3 starter and now you want to poke out our 4 starter who’s had arm problems to go into a role he’s never been in?
They need to see the bigger picture. It’s not just the closer’s role. The Mets blew 18 games before the 9th inning. It means something is wrong with the bullpen. I hope Heilman and Sanchez not being used in September much indicated their departures. And Schoenweis’s alright year and salary can get out of here too. Shave off some of the money there and they’ll have more to use on a closer and set up guys.
All teams that win have either a good closer or a good bullpen. Is this not a true statement? When Saito went down, Broxton became the closer. When Wagner went down, who was ours? Ayala? Heilman? If Wood were to go down, Marmol would have been their closer.
Every good team has a good closer. Or a good enough bullpen to compensate for an average closer. Mariano’s awesome, but how was their bullpen? What about Arizona? Maybe they would have made the postseason had they held onto Valverde. So you need a closer and a bullpen. Not just or the other. And if the bullpen core is neglected, it’ll be disappointing.
especially with what has happened the last 2 years with respect to the relieving core…they are only paying wagner + another closer for 1 year, so that better not be an excuse for not going and getting a real closer along with 1 or 2 set up guys
I agree about pa$sing on the huge money/long contract name guys.
ALthough I would also pa$s on Gagne, unless he came cheap (like a minors deal) and you weren’t counting on him, jus hoping to get lucky.
I also don’t mind picking up 2-3 potential closers, and letting them compete for the job. The losers get to do set up.
Just please, no more BPs full of specialists that aren’t very special!
We need to shave off the problems. And where do you start with that? By just not re-signing your own junk. That’d be Pedro, Ayala among others. Than work with trades. Schoenweis can be traded. As can Heilman and Sanchez. Eat most of Castillo’s contract.
Either buy out Castillo or trade him to LA for like Jason Schmidt who’ll probably never throw another pitch (although you never know). He’s due 15.5MM next season. We’d be virtually giving Castillo to the Dodgers for 3yr/2.5MM. Kent has mentioned he’ll probably want to retire.
this just goes to show you he is saving money for sabathia or manny, or both. only if he goes that route of course of trade or within
but who cares about those guys if we dont fix the pen? that was our achilles heel and it needs to be addressed…i’d rather them platoon in LF or 2b (not both) sign a number 3 and 4 starter on the cheap and sign a real closer than piece together a garbage pen with manny and cc…i’d love to have them but sp and lineup was not the big issue, and we already have the ace of aces, so no need to strengthen the top of the rotation when it is already our strong point
Yup. Just for the sake of satisfaction, it’d be much more pleasing to me to know that we have a solid bullpen. Or what would appear to be so.
Last Spring Training, I used to hear the Mets had a really good line-up on paper. It turned out they had a pretty damn good line-up all year even through their injuries.
Even the best teams have open gaps in their line up. Look at the time Longoria and Crawford missed for TB. Or Lugo for the Red Sox. You’d rather have a platoon of one or two in your line up than have a bullpen that makes you say gulp every time they go out there.
absolutely…jayson werth? did anyone think he should have been an everyday starter before the season? You cannot possibly have an all star at every place in the lineup, unless you are the yanks… you can hide 1 or 2 guys in your lineup…it is much more difficult to do that in the bullpen, because at some point, every guy in the pen will have to come in at a breaking point of a ball game during a part of the season….look at 99 and 00, we were built on our bullpen, and it carried us…it also did in 06, when our rotation was in shambles…
I know Wagner’s salary will be a nuisance to the Mets, but this can’t undermine the fact that they have 30MM coming off the books and that number will rise to 35MM after presumably unloading Schoenweis and Heilman. The number will turn out to be even larger than. Probably 10%. The Mets payroll next season will probably look to be around 150 million which would be a 10% increase.
After trading Schoenweis/Heilman for what ever they can get, they’d have 48MM to spend. That means they could even give CC a 7yr/154MM contract (22MM anually) and still have 26MM left over to play with. 12MM can be used on Fuentes. Still 14MM left. Maybe a 2yr/10MM deal for Eckstein to play 2B? Still got 9 left. Sign someone like Dennys Reyes 3yr/13MM and David Weathers 2yr/7MM? And Easley back to a 1yr/1MM deal? That’s your 150MM payroll.
1. Starting pitching isn’t that much of a problem. Derrek Lowe would be a perfect fit for the Mets
2. Fuentes? He’s good, but he’s a 33 year old reliever. No thank you, especially with that contract.
3. David Eckstein really isn’t an upgrade from Castillo no matter how “scrappy” or white he is.
4. Have you learned nothing from Scott Schoeneweis or Guillermo Mota or Jamie Walker? Never sign free agent middle relievers to more than a 1 year contract!
BEST POST OF THE YEAR. everyone of your points is spot on and I concur loudly.
Also, people don’t see a very simple solution — Junichi Tazawa
Yes. He’s intriguing. And I’m sure the Mets will bid. Don’t the Japanese league make that bidding price though? Look at what the Yankees paid on Igawa. It’s like a contract of it’s own. If they can get him at a reasonable price, I’d go for it.
Tazawa isn’t part of the Japanese League. All the money goes to him.
yeah no bidding 50 mil for the righs to talk to him
not tazawa…..he is an amateur, basically it’s like signing a big time prospect.
Yeah but maybe signing him and giving him a shot at relief wouldn’t hurt? At worst we just send him down and have another solid prospect…
guys bullpens aren’t made just by throwing money at the sexiest names out there look what happened to gagne a couple of years ago sometimes u have to take chances like when we had cook turk etc the small names generally provide big numbers because there is not as much pressure on them to live up to their contracts
This is true. You can’t do this for every guy. You can’t tell me the Mets wouldn’t have been better off investing in their own relievers like Bradford or Oliver from ‘06 though. Sometimes the best thing you can do is just retain what isn’t broken.
As for closer’s though, it’s more common to see the best names be the most productive. This is not always the case with set up cores, but look at the first couple years of Wagner here. Or Cordero with the Reds. Or Ryan in Toronto.
When you have nothing and I mean the Mets are pretty much dried out of talent in their bullpen, you get desperate. And the only way to compensate for this is by signing FA’s who look good. And even if they don’t do awesome, it’s not ridiculous to expect them to still do alright.
Just look at Weathers numbers the past 4 seasons in a row and even his numbers with us. Or Russ Springer’s the last 3. Or Dennys Reyes and Joe Biemel in their last 2. These guys are all solid and would give us what they need. If the Mets were to sign 2 of those 4 I just mentioned plus K-Rod or Fuentes, there’d be a transformation and many happy fans.
they shoulda kept bradford and oliver – omar was penny smart and dollar foolish – he banked that those 2 would have off years and he gambled on scho and lost
I don’t know what the Mets plans are for Orlando Hudson, but if the Yankees do trade Cano (to Pittsburgh?), I could see them bidding for him too. I think it’d probably be in the Mets best interests to sign K-Rod (who’s only 27) or Fuentes.
Pitching wins. Scoring makes it easier. And when you know you’ve already scored 3rd best in the NL and you’re holding onto virtually every productive hitter on your roster, you know it wouldn’t be that hard if we just had a decent bullpen.
methinks o dawg won’t be a met luis ( the human pinata) will be a met for the entire year – remember this is a team that refused to eat bobby bonillia’s contract untilhe made life totally unbearable – and even then it was in the second to last year of his contract (i’m surprised he didn’t show up to the shea goodbye ceremonies but leiter did lol)
guys how did bartolo colon and freddie sanchez do this year when coming back from injuries??
turk was pretty decent with the cubbies before the mets and cook had a history with the phils, and they had johnny franco…the point is you need to make sure you have a strong anchor in the pen, thats all im saying…i dont necessarily want krod, but i also think omar needs to have the attitude that he will get a proven closer and not have a tryout in spring training because it is too important a position to just bring in guys who arent closers anymore and hope to piece something together
agreed and up til this past season heilman was our anchor – i think he was more hurt than he had let on to be honest
Yes, Heilman was hurt. I respect his courage for being willing to pitch through it. But there’s just a way he’ll be seen in this city from here on and out. And it’s been that way for a while.
The way I see Heilman is the same way I see Marbury. At this point, Heilman might be an average set up man again. As may Marbury could be an average PG. Who in their right mind would believe Marbury would help the dynamic of the Knicks though? It’s probably not a fair comparison because Heilman’s more respectful and good for the clubhouse than that waste of money the Knicks got. But there just comes a certain point when cutting ties is necessary. Omar was wise enough to realize this with Mota last season.
yeah…i still dont think the mets should give up on him yet, he was too good for an extended period before this year to just trade him for nothing, and it is not like he costs a lot of money…you cant sell low on him either, and i think it would be worth it to save a spot for him since we dont want to go out and get like 5 relievers for 5 mil a piece, and i do think if the mets were able to get a good closer and a great set-up guy it would take pressure of the rest of the pen…maybe sign beimel and weathers and then get a closer via trade or fa…and keep stokes, heilman, and 1 of the lefties…stokes has a live arm
remember we ran looper out on a rail in 05 and it turned out he was hurt – he went to the cards and was reborn – ok so he wasn’t the second coming of bruce sutter but he was effective
then again, heilman was the bane of my existence, so i could definitely live with the mets throwing him out
I can see omar going after chad cordero. he loves him
did’nt he need tommy john surgery??? he might be out as long as wagner
i’d like john rauch aka the balding wookie
haha but he is a scary mofo…i would definitely like him as a setup guy
Our bullpen is currently mush. Rock bottom. Garbage. Junk. What ever term any of you can think of. This is how it has to be mentally thought of. We can’t give ourselves false hope of believing Schoenweis, Heilman and Ayala can do it. We all know they aren’t good and even if all things were sound, they’d still barely scrape mediocrity.
You aim high and if mediocrity’s the consolation, so be it. You aim for mediocrity and the consolation turns out to be less attractive. What we currently have is a mess and the only way it is to be improved is through multiple signings and/or trades. I didn’t say it’s make us awesome, but rather respectable. And a lot of people will be calling for it.
thats why i say make a play for danny cabrera jeremy affeldt tyler walker etc i want k-rod but i am also leery about his velocity
This is probably why Fuentes looks like the better option because of the less pay and less years. K-Rod being 6 years younger would surely outweight what ever velocity or injury issues we think about with a mid-30’s pitcher. Walker and Cabrerra’s ERA are unattractive. They can’t set up games for us. We need veterans who’ve done it before. Or guy’s who we can reasonably believe in like Juan Cruz or Will Ohman.
Or guys like Guillermo Mota and Scott Schowenweiss? You should never hand out contracts to relievers, unless they are TOP NOTCH closers. Fuentes is not this, Cruz , Ohman, Affeldt, none are this either. The best setup men in the game are system guys who are young cheap and throw hard.
daniel cabrera is more frustrating than ollie p…he averaged 1 walk every other inning…why would you want him? he is 27 and has shown a penchant for walks his entire career….can you say victor zambrano?
Why should we believe in the guy’s who currently withhold the bullpen slots? What reason do we have to believe in them? They hurt us in ‘07. And they destroyed us in ‘08. Ayala was dumped by the worse team in baseball. Stokes the second worse at the time. Why should we keep playing with sloppy seconds?
if they want to replace them with a parnell or some other young guy i am with you…but i just dont see the mets replacing every bullpen guy, it would cost too much in money and talent in the ownership’s eyes, they should but i dont see it happening
Will the Dodgers pick up Penny’s option or buy him out? If he’s bought out, is he worth a shot at gambling on in the back end of the rotation?
if he is a type B, yes. if not, then no.
is this a win now team or what? then either sign krod or fuentes. and trade for a good middle reliever.
You mean middle relievers. One middle reliever is no solution. We’d still be bringing back 5 guy’s if it were only 2 new guys. Those 5 likely being Stokes, Smith and Feliciano who are worth bringing back. But the other two coming out of Ayala, Sanchez, Show and Heilman – probably Sanchez and Heilman because they’re cheap and under contract. I’d still think we need more than that and when the time is right, Kunz and Parnell can mix into the bullpen well.
If we were going to sign a closer, why not sign a set up men or two? We got the money coming off the books. Look at all the money the White Sox spent on Linebrink and Dotel. It’s the reason why they won their division.
if freddy coupon wants a bahgain he might not find one this time and i think met fans deserve more after the last 2 seasons!
If Stokes/Ayala are our September set up/closer crew, I’ll be about as upset as all the kids going back to school on the 1st day lol
with some thinking maine should be our closer then who replaces ollie and pedro?
They didn’t seem to follow up with a good answer on that. If Maine were the closer, it’d mean the Mets have to sign more starters. And starters are more pricey than relievers. They’d wind up giving Odalis Perez 7 million a year when they could have spent the same amount on Dennys Reyes and Russ Springer and won us at least 10 more ball games.
If Maine becomes the closer (and who said he’d be good?), than the Mets would need to sign 3 SP’s or depend on the inexperienced Niese/Parnell. Or it’d cost us our prospects. It’d be a more costly scenario that utilizing the FA market the right way.
We should have looked to replace Pedro long before now too. In my opinion, we were going with 4 starters and a dud the whole season. And when Maine went down, it was 3, a dud and a rookie/Olympics dude.
niese might replace one of them but what about the other? and dont say heilman!
ive heard rumors that the red sox have soured on taylor bucholz . From what ive heard this kid has a great arm.Also heard the royals are listening to offers for zach grienke.
What would be more irresponsible? Having no closer and Heilman/Stokes as your set up men in ‘09 or Jamie Moyer pitching game 7 of the NLCS for the Phillies?
either way Omar has a lot to prove for 2009.
Rudy Seanez would probably be the equivalent of Joe Smith to the Mets – arguably our best reliever. And Seanez isn’t even on the Philles NLCS roster. What’s this say? I hope Omar has an answer.
as for middle relievers id be happy with david weathers and juan cruz or jason grabow and jon rauch.
Hey Nichols can I have some of what you are smoking? Give the closer role to Kunz, Parnell, or Maine, who have NO CLOSING EXPERIENCE!!! This sounds familiar, oh yea its what the Mets did at the end of last year when Wagner went down. How did that turn out for them?
what id like to see? juan cruz,brian fuentes,rauch and zach grienke as one of our replacement starters.
I don’t give a CRAP about Billy Wagner’s contract, if this ownership cares about us the fans they should do and spend WHATEVER IT TAKES to get the Mets into October.
This whole business about Minaya having an eye for “given up on” talent is ridiculous. Minaya subscribes to the theory that if you throw enough crap at the wall, some of it is bound to stick (see Lima, J and Gonzolez, J as examples that didn’t work out). To promote the falsehood that Minaya is some kind of wonder scout and “at his very best” in these situations is laughable and a disservice to the readership of Metsblog.
agreed….although hes picked a few winners look at all the scrubs hes gotten as well…if ur gonna get credit you have to take blame as well
the only guys i would keep are feliciano and smith.
I still don’t think Minaya should be back, but now it’s time to earn your MONEY son. After the last two years the Mets OWE US a team that will not only play well in September but play some meaningful October baseball. Stop with this Bill Wagner contract nonsense, this is New York not Kansas City, spend WHATEVER IT TAKES to get a championship back to Queens.
out of topic guys, anyone knows the name of the music entrance for murphy and church?
Why do i feel like im gonna be either VERY happy or VERY angry of Omar’s moves this offseason…one or the other
I feel the same way. On the last day of the season, I thought one of these teams will be celebrating by around 5. There won’t be a game tomorrow. I guess I was right. I probably would have rolled the dice on it again considering Pedro on 3 days rest was our Monday pitcher. Oh well. I expect big things from Omar though.
The only reason to not sign Krod is to make a legit run at Manny and or CC
Good statement. Or signing Hudson + Fuentes would be a good consolation too.
I hope we don’t get Gagne. I know many Brewers fans, and they all hate him. I do thank him, however, for giving up the Mets’ winning runs at the game I was at.
Here’s a little joke, but a reality too.
If Obama were to somehow lose this election being up this high in the polls 3 weeks from the election, would it be a worse collapse than the Mets of ‘07 and ‘08?
I know there are a lot of Giants fans out there who used that to ease their Mets pains a couple weeks ago. I’m a Jets fan, but can’t say I’m not happy with the recent imporvement and 6 TD game of Brett. I still don’t have a SB to rely on though. And I can’t depend on the Knicks.
So if Obama wins, I’ll know how good it tastes to be on the winning team for once lol If he loses, I hope I didn’t jinx him.
The way I see it, if Obama wins, we all lose.
Closers are a luxury, but the 9th inning is like any other inning. What happens in the 7th or 8th or 6th is just as important. The fact is, the Mets are better off just getting a solid bullpen core (which are usually made up of ex-mlb or minor league starters… see Kerry Wood and Carlos Marmol, or guys from the minors)
So what do I want to do?
Trade away Delgado and part of his due 2009 salary as well as Aaron Heilman for Jose Arredondo
explanation: Delgado isn’t that necessary to the Mets success. If you really look at the numbers, he’s a replaceable hitter and a bad defender. However, with the Angels possibly looking at the loss of Teixeira, Delgado’s lefty bat and 38 HR may look attractive. Remember, they still may bring back K-rod. Also, Heilman would be a nice throw-in for the Angels, for if he gets his command back he’s a lethal reliever. Move the Murphy/Evans platoon to first and you have practically the same productivity out of that position.
retain Joe Smith, Bobby Parnell, Pedro Feliciano and Duaner Sanchez
explanation: These guys deserve some kind of credit. If Smith gets his command down, he’s one of the best righty relievers in the game. Parnell has setup man type stuff, Feliciano still gets lefties out and Sanchez didn’t have a bad year at all, all things considered.
Trade away Scott Schoeneweis, Luis Castillo and his contract for dirt.
explanation: unnecessary
Sign Derrek Lowe to 2 year contract worth $22 million, team option worth $9 million with $3 million buyout
expanation: It’s a reasonable contract considering his age and production, and he’s be of great help considering the Mets’ bullpen situation
Sign Arthur Rhodes to 1 year, $1.5 million contract and Juan Cruz to 2 yaer $9 million contract
explanation: No FA reliever is a guarantee, but Rhodes is an ex-setup man who can handle lefties pretty well, and Cruz has greast stuff that would be very useful in the setup role
Trade for or sign Brian Giles, sign Rocco Baldelli to 1 year contract
explanation: Giles is a solid lefty hitter and a decent fielder, Rocco Baldelli is a high-potential righty who can be a platoon man or a starter, depending on his health. This is a great platoon for left field, imo.
first of all you DONT want Giles…second of all if you arent signing a closer, who are u gonna spend your money on…lets not forget we dont wanna go into next season w the exact same lineup and Giles is not the solution hes very old and not good anymore…and Baldelli isnt much of an option
What’s wrong with Giles? Even at his worst he gets on base a good amount. His worst year was in 2007, even then he had a .271/.361/.416 line, which kind of what you’d get out of Brian Roberts without steals…
And I flaty disagree with what you’re saying about Baldelli. He’s very talented, and we can definitely expect at least around 150 ABs out of him. He smacks lefties.
arredondo is going to be their 8th inning setup man or closer next year, with scot shields taking the other spot. i’d like to see parnell get the shot, and trade for scott downs to setup.
If the Angels don’t re-sign Tex, then they are all but locks for K-rod. If so, their need for Arredondo is diminished, and their need for a lefty power bat is heightened. That’s where Delgado comes in.
Lowe will get at least 3 years and he’ll get more than 11MM a year annually. My guess is he’d get at least 3yr/39MM.
Arthur Rhodes may get a team to give him 2 years. Even if he only gets one, I know it’ll be for more than 1.5MM. It could be double of that.
Rocco Baldelli is on team option years. He is due 6MM next season. He’s played very well since returning from the DL. The new revenue the Rays have accumulated will allow them to pick up that option. Not just that though, but they’d have to buy him out for 4MM if they were to decline it. Why do that? For only an extra 2 you get to hold onto him. He’d be on a 8MM option in ‘10 and 9MM in ‘11. Even if they didn’t want him, they could trade him elsewhere and get prospects in return.
If it were guaranteed that Delgado’s numbers could be repeated, I’d love to have him back. I don’t see him being as productive next season though. It doesn’t mean he’ll have a bad year, but this is the time to move him so I agree. His value is at peak. I don’t think the Angels would trade such a good reliever for Delgado though. The Angels will most likely re-sign Texeira. They lost Kotchman to get him. They wouldn’t lose another prospect they could need for years to come for a rent a player. I doubt they or any other team holds Heilman to a high esteem either.
I do like the idea of Brian Giles. I don’t think it’d cost too much to get him. I don’t know how willing he is to play for the Mets, but he’d an idea worth considering. The Mets will likely pursue a right-handed hitter though because they’ve already got Church and Murphy. Randy Winn may work better because he’s a switch hitter.
1. Who’s going to give Lowe that contract? The Cubs seem like the only team that would, and possibly the Yankees if they aren’t already consumed in Sabathia, Burnett, Mussina, Pettitte or Sheets
2. The Rays already bought out all of Baldelli’s option years, making him a no-strings-attached FA.
3. You forget that Teixeira may not sign with the Angels, rather another team willing to pay Tex’s enormous salary required, in which case they’d re-sign K-rod, and welcome Delgado with open arms.
Maybe we should consider Shawn Chacon from the scrap heap for the bullpen. Then when things go wrong he can tackle Omar.
btw, the Rays are going to trade Sonnanstine and Edwin Jackson. I would love to see E-Jax as a setup man or closer, the dude throws HARD and is YOUNG. Or sonnanstine as the #5 pitcher.
For example:
Church, Delgado, Kunz, and Heilman for Jackson and Sonnanstine?
Delgado?? Why would the Rays ever want delgado..he makes money and is old
Not to mention why would they need an OF? They have 106 of them. You gotta get better at this. You still have plenty of time though.
baldelli is gone. who is their right fielder? cliff floyd has an option next year. Who is a better one year rental DH than Carlos Delgado?
next year delgado costs 12 million…..name another 1 year rental who can put up 115 RBI as a DH and hit 38 HR? please do! the rays are going to win the W.S.
Baldelli is not necessarily gone. I guess they could use Church in RF. They are not going to pay 12 million for a DH so you would have to eat part of his salary.
baldelli is very very very much going to be gone. they have no right fielder of church’s quality. if they win the world series, don’t you think they can afford an 8 million dollar swing for DH? (delgado – flloyd = 8 mil)?
Can? Yes. Want to? Nope. There will be other guys that they can afford for less money without trading. Why make that trade when they could sign Raul Ibanez for less?
the hell with the scrap heap id rather see a young pitcher learning to pitch in the big leagues than some retread that has no future.
the mets have money[what they spend it on is anyones guess]
David Wright and Delgado for Pujols
Nah, Pujols’ arm would fall off as soon as we got him. ;)
i mean i wasnt being serious..but if you wouldnt make that trade ud be not a smart person
Airfeet, I was joking too. Man……
If we go this route I want Juan Cruz and Everyday Eddie. That would make for a decent 2 headed closer
Eddie
Cruz
Parnell
Stokes
Oliver
Smith
Sanchez/Ayala
Juan Cruz IS A TYPE A FREE AGENT. THAT IS A HUUUUGE WASTE.
We are not going to sign our limit anyway. It does not reall matter. Look at his numbers. He has closer potential for 1/3 of the price.
You could still get CC or Manny or Tex or Lowe (&Garland), or Hudson. If you let Perez go you could even still get 2 of those guys.
if we waste our signing on Cruz then we HAVE to get Manny or CC
you can only sign two, or the number of type A’s you lose. therefore, we can only sign 2. you want darren oliver and juan cruz. no wonder u are a republican.
If you let Perez go you can sign 3.
no, you can sign 2. if say we lost 3 type A’s to F.A. we could sign 3. but we are only losing one, so we can only sign the typical limit of 2.
Read below. That’s just NOT TRUE. Unless you can find a written rule that says that. Otherwise you are saying that a team that does not lose ANY FA could only sign 1 type A? That’s silly. That would only apply if there was a FA shortage. If there were only 14 type A FA or something.
As far as the Republican comment? You mean I am not in favor of spending 50 million? Yes I guess that does make me a republican.
oh and so is darren oliver…..so basically you spent your type A’s on two middle relievers. brilliant.
After whats happened the past 2 years dont we deserve krod or fuentes?
and we dont need a big middle of the order bat……124, 115, 112 RBIs from our 3,4,5 hitters is more than any team in baseball.
we need pitching, defense and a balanced lineup
we need a clutch bat in the lineup…numbers are very deceiving..Id rather have Manny for his clutchness than his actual production
it’d be better to have a balanced lineup of clutch hitters than one clutch hitter in the middle. they can’t just send manny up whenever they need a clutch hit you know?
the strength of this team was it’s RBI production. starting pitching, closer, setup man, and 2B are all priorities over Manny, sorry to shatter your dream but there is literally no reason to bring manny here. and have you learned NOTHING about bringing in old rich veterans???
right but how can we do that?? the only way to do that is to trade away like 6 players and get 6 new balanced hitters…the only possibility is signing someone dude
and Manny is twice the hitter than Beltran is
castillo for byrnes.
sign o-dog for less money, less years, gold glove D, a position of need, leadership, and a #2 hitter, which we desperately need.
trade for david dejesus in LF. look at his clutch numbers.
all three are more clutch by the numbers than any current met.
balanced lineup with BA
Reyes .298
O-Dog .305
Wright .304
Beltran .284
Dejesus .305
Murphy .350
Byrnes .280 (his ‘07 season, he missed most of ‘08)
Catcher
Pitcher
whats ur belief that the mets can trade the worst player in MLB for a solid player in Byrnes?
Salary dump. The guy is actually owed more money than Castillo and had worse numbers. They would save about 5 million. If you threw in a little cash to give them a free season of Castillo and a low level prospect it could get done.
does anyone know what happened to jeremy accardo? he had 30 saves and a 2.14 era in 2007 for the jays.
all i can say is if the bullpen is not improved… we aint goin nowhere.
Ok, I ask this a long time ago but for some reason on this site it has became an automatic that I don’t think is true. The unfounded rule is that you can only sign 2 type A FA. I can not find anything saying this. In fact, Keith Law the resident guru on this made this comment.
-Teams are limited to the number of Type A and Type B free
agents they can sign, which is determined by the number of free agents available. Example: If there are less than 14 Type A or B free agents, no one team can sign more than one Type A or B free agent. According to Law, last season there were approximately 93 Type A or B free agents, who filed for free agency, which left the per-team quota at eight.
I think until this is put to bed otherwise consider this a dead rumor.
you don’t read well……
the # of type A’s you can sign is dependent on how many type A’s there are.
the # of type B’s you can sign is dependent on how many type B’s there are.
so, there may have been 93 type A and B combined, but how many of those were type A? probably between 14-24. this year will be about the same.
THEREFORE
you can only sign 2. GET IT?
My brain hurts, but here it goes:
If you can trade Castillo for Byrnes, you do it. Byrnes can easily come off the bench, and be a long term sub if necessary. Both teams sell low.
O-Dog is slipping in range factor. Throw away the 2005 stratomatic cards. The guy is losing ground faster than McCain. On the plus side of 30.
Sign Felipe Lopez to play 2B. If he doesn’t return to 2005 form, play Argenis Reyes or Murphy at 2B. A lot cheaper than O-Dog. 3 years younger. More likely to rebound.
Avoid Manny Mania. I think the Yankees will make a bigger play for him anyway.
KRod will be more than the wilpon’s will want to spend
CC & Santana can take a load of work off a bullpen. I’d break the bank for him alone
I like Jon Rauch. I’d see what the D-Backs would want for him. i think he could be an effective closer. He pitched very well for the Nats, but imploded a bit after the trade. Brandon Lyon was really ineffective, so I’d avoid him.
I also like dan Wheeler. He stepped up when Percival was injured and got the job done.
IRod behind the plate. Bank on it
Avoid Tex: he’s a stat compiler.
So I guess I’d end up with
Reyes SS
Murphy LF
Wright 3B
Delgado 1B
Beltran CF
Church RF
IRod C
Lopez 2B
Not much difference, but scoring runs wasn’t always our problem. I think the bottom 3rd will be much stronger
A Reyes
Chavez
Byrnes
Castro
Evans
Santana
CC
Maine
Pelfrey
Neise
Rauch
Wheeler
spare parts from the grave yard
.
I like Rauch but F wheeler…he was on this team once before you know…he aint coming back
Wheeler is better than he was two years ago.
Glad I didn’t mention David Weathers….
-Rauch is no closer. He’s barely a setup man
- What if CC gets injured? He was certainly overworked last year. What happens then? He has a huge incredibly amazing contract demand which he’ll get. You better believe that the Yankees are locks to get him, and whatever the Mets offer the Yanks’ll double it.
- This team is offensively impaired. After the 6 spot in the order it’s a wasteland, and especially with that crappy bench
I had Rauch on my fantasy team when Cordero went down. He pitched very well from the closers roll.
CC will have knee problem’s before he has arm problem’s a la Sid Fernandez. I think he would be a worthwhile signing. If CC goes cross town, I’d move the money to Manny and try to outscore everyone.
lets hope omar doesnt go and get someone like..matt chico and josh fogg.
it wouldnt be horrible as a #5 guy ….if they had 4 solid relievers in front
I want a good 5th starter
i went to a game in chicago (white sox – i was there visiting ppl) and saw a game. i reallly liked how they announced the starting lineup…..they announced the lineup…i think they should bring that to citifield. so it would be like “leading off jose reyes” and he runs to short, “batting 2nd” say its carlos beltran and he runs out…etc. batting 9th the pitcher johan santana he walks out and they shoot off fireworks…..it was done very nicely
Batting 9th, the pitcher, C.C. Sabathia….
This is from this site last offseason. Lets put this junk rumor of how many type A’s we can sign to rest. We can sign more Type A FA than we will EVER be able to afford.
Here is a quick rundown on free agent compensation using information collected from the above Law post, Major League Baseball’s 2007 – 2011 Collective Bargaining Agreement, MLB Trade Rumors and Cot’s Baseball Contracts:
Free agents are grouped into three types of players; Type A, Type B and Unclasified.
Type A players comprise of players in the top 20 percent of their positions. A team that signs a Type A player must give its top draft pick to the team that is losing the player. The team that lost the player also receives a supplemental pick between the first and second rounds. However, if the signing team has a draft pick in the first half of the first round (picks 1-15), their first round pick is protected and would then surrender their next highest draft pick.
Type B players comprise of players in the top 21-40 percent of their positions. Any team that loses a Type B players receives a supplemental pick, but the signing team does not lose any picks.
Any team who loses an unclasified player is not subject to any compensation.
The formula to determine player types, which is not widely known, is comprised of several factors, including statistical analysis of the players previous two seasons, and players are grouped into the following positional categories: 1B/DH/OF, 2B/SS/3B, C, SP, and RP.
In order for the former team of a free agent to receive compensation for losing a player to free agency, the player must sign with another team before December 2 or the team must have offered the player arbitration before December 1.
If a team signs multiple free agents from within the same category, the team loses picks in order of the highest-ranked players.
Teams are limited to the number of Type A and Type B free agents they can sign, which is determined by the number of free agents available. Example: If there are less than 14 Type A or B free agents, no one team can sign more than one Type A or B free agent. According to Law, last season there were approximately 93 Type A or B free agents, who filed for free agency, which left the per-team quota at eight.
8 total. not 8 type A. go look up the number of type A’s that will be available!
Teams are limited to the number of Type A and Type B free agents they can sign, which is determined by the number of free agents available. Example: If there are less than 14 Type A or B free agents, no one team can sign more than one Type A or B free agent. According to Law, last season there were approximately 93 Type A or B free agents, who filed for free agency, which left the per-team quota at eight.
There is no clasification here. The top 20% are type A. There would be MUCH more than 14. Think about it. Unless you can actually prove otherwise it is a moot point. This rumor is dead as far as I am concerned. I have never seen it ANYWHERE but on this site. You would see something like this on MLBTraderumors and it is not.
You are flat out wrong dude, and when you are proven wrong, will you STOP POSTING.
typical republican……
Limits on free agent signings
If only 0-14 players in all of Major League Baseball file for free file for free agency, no team may sign more than one “Type A” or “Type B” player (terms defined below).
If 15-38 players file for free agency, no team may sign more than 2 such free agent players.
If 39-62 players file for free agency, no team may sign more than 3 such free agent players.
If 63 or more players file for free agency, then there are no such limits applied. Furthermore, a team may sign as many type A and B free agents as it has lost, regardless of the limits above.
Thanks for proving my point. There will be NO LIMITS ON THE METS THIS SEASON. Using that post find anything that says the Mets will only be able to sign 2 type A FA.
and as there were 23 type A’s in 07, you could only sign 2. there were a ton of type B’s, so you could sign any amount.
You still don’t get it and I give up. It plainly states that if there are more TOTAL Free Agents than 63 then the limits do not apply.
2-7 fogg 7.58 era and chico 0-6 6.19 era.. nuff said?
if their choices you might as well make heilman a starter.
I’d be on board with that
i would ask kc what they want for greinke.
ok for example after ‘07, there were 23 type A’s……so you could only sign 2. GET IT?
but then again, you think saddam made 9/11, had WMDs, that the tax plan would work, that the economy was great, etc etc.
stop being wrong about things and trying to justify them when you are WRONG.
or colorado about jimenez.
or matt scherzer[98 mph fastball] from arizona.
Try this one MetsMady. See I like to use actual proof for my arguements. I guess that makes me republican.
From Mets Geek
Elias Sports Bureau Free Agent Types
Scribbled by: Mike Newman @ 11:48 pm | Filed under: Journals
I found a site with projected Elias Sports Bureau free agent types and they look very legit. It was updated September 14th so the last two weeks of the season could have changed things slightly.
Based on the findings, the Mets will have the following guys as type A/B free agents;
Oliver Perez – A
Moises Alou – B
Luis Ayala and Fernando Tatis should just miss being type B free agents with Ayala stinking down the stretch and Tatis missing the end of the season due to injury.
Overall, there could be 70 or more type A/B free agents which means the Mets could sign as many as five type A/B free agents or more based on my understanding of the following free agent rules;
If 39-62 players file for free agency, no team may sign more than 3 such free agent players.
If 63 or more players file for free agency, then there are no such limits applied. Furthermore, a team may sign as many type A and B free agents as it has lost, regardless of the limits above.
If 63 or more players file for free agency, then there are no such limits applied. There will be more than 63 FA. There are already 70+ expected.
right, and how are they split between A and B?
in other words, the mets can sign 5 total. 2 type A and 3 type B.
Again, can you find ANYTHING that says this. I have provided 2 that show that the limitations are based on BOTH not 1.
It says IF THERE ARE MORE THAN 63 NO SUCH LIMITS APPLY.
ive heard a lot of good things about scherzer i wonder what it would take?
they aren’t trading him sorry.
whats the score of the filthy game?? GO DODGERS !!!
2–1 Phaillies, top of the 3rd…and I second the motion, go Manny and the Dodgers!
as they say in japan FRUCK THE FRILLS!!!
damn i can’t wait for the winter meetings so all this bull poopie speculation will be over
What?? You don’t want to trade Beltran to the Yanks for Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, and Hank Steinbrenner, and then flip Melky to the Cubs for Lee, Soriano, and their entire bullpen??
all i know is i want bob bailor tom pechorek tim foli and stanley jefferson back let wayne twitchell mark bomback and pete falcone be closer by comittee – jose cardinal will be our third base coach lol
I am sure it was an oversight, but you left out Anthony Young, who surely must have a spot on this team.
Ted Martinez at SS after we trade Jose, and Nino Espinosa and Ray Burris can be the 4 and 5 starters, and Roy Staiger at 3rd after we get rid of that horrible unclutch, overpaid, aging clubhouse cancer and all-around bad guy David Wright….
Lol.
can we pull a tonya harding and knee cap moises so omar wouldn’t consider resigning him again?? :P
i wouldn’t mind trying to pry valverde away from the stros btw
Valverde is dangerous
Anyone out there watching this game? Second time this game Burrell can’t make a throw to the infield and hit the cutoff man.
I don’t want Berrell anywhere in the Mets outfield…
Go Dodgers! Up by one now.
I’m watching. Go Blue!
Dodgers are finally putting some plays together. I would love to see a TB / Dodger World Series…
honest question. you have to know that as much as we might want it, its unreasonable to expect omar to replace EVERY arm in the bullpen. some of them will be back next year. i your opinion, for anyone to answer, who would be the 3 guys you would be ok seeing return to the bullpen next year (john maine not included)
joe smith
brian stokes
duaner sanchez
Smith
Stokes
Feliciano
Actually, it is not unreasonable to expect Omar to replace every single bullpen arm.
He f**ked it up, we should expect him to fix it.
But hey, you all seem interested in giving the guy a pa ss.
It so happens I’d keep Stokes, Parnell and Smith for the pen, and could be convinced to keep Feliciano for LOOGY and Figgy (long man)
Maybe.
But there’s no reason for anyone to start excusing Omar’s offseason failures before they even happen (and they will happen. You thing a bargain-basement closer will get the job done?)
No playoffs AGAIN.
Can we just fire him now?
seeing that he just got extended, no. parnell is def a keeper, but i didnt count him b/c he was a callup.
Come on, you’re just setting your self up to be more angry than you normally are if you think Omar is replacing every single arm in that bullpen.
Given that is a fact, he’d better make moves that greatly improve it. Bottom line, no one is going to convince me that BP is the reason I’m watching the Dodgers/Phillies tonight instead of the Mets. Not the injuries, not no ‘clutch’ hitting, not managing, etc. etc. etc.
Obviously, I meant no one is going to convince me the bullpen is NOT the reason….
lol – reading the Phillies fans over on beerleaguer and Phills Nation. Not very happy, would be an understatement…
im sure they are happy now.
Except the pen WASN’T RESPONSIBLE!
They were in position to make the playoffs with 17 left
They were in position to make the playoffs with 7 left
They were in position to make the playoffs with 3 left
They were in position to make the playoffs with 1 left
PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE THE PEN MADE THEM FALL 15 GAMES OUT. ALL THE LOUSY PEN DID WAS ENSURE THEY HAD A SMALLER LEAD W/ 17 TO PLAY THAN THEY MIGHT HAVE.
But over the last 17, over the last 7, over the last 3, over the last 1- it WASN’T THE PEN THAT FAILED TO SHOW UP.
It wasn’t the pen that disappeared 4 of the last 5 games in big spots
It wasn’t the pen that scored 5 runs over the last 3 games
It wasn’t the pen that scored 2 lousy runs in the finale.
Blaming the pen is the easy way out.
But the blame for the season rests SQUARELY with Wright and Reyes. And the rest of the choker offense.
You’re like a reverse Homer Simpson. Just because you care, doesn’t mean you understand.
by the way, GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You call them “undervalued closers”, I call them “bad pitchers.
Omar calls them his offseason targets
gagne would be under-valued if the mets were playing in the mexican league next year.
I rather put a pistol in my mouth than watch Gagne and Gregg attempt to close a big game.
Hey, I see Victornio again did what Wright could never ever do.
The Phils are going to the World Series and Wright can’t drive in a runner from 3rd w/ nobody out.
Piece of garbage.
just shut up dude…….
Why should I? You may be interested in giving Wright a pa ss but some of us are gonna make you see the truth about that guy
if you really think the mets didnt go to the playoffs bc of david wrights clutch hitting you are a fool. they (delgado, reyes, to an extent beltran) dogged it for willie, their bullpen was a joke, we never had a 5th starter, pedro was a 3 inning pitcher, wagner blew his arm out in august, and jon niese was forced to make starts down the stretch. Yes i understand if wright drives that run in we may have made the playoffs but a dozen other things contributed to us being in that situation before wright ever got up to the plate.
Except that he was in that situation (and many others down the stretch) and he failed.
Despite all you mentioned, they were still in position to make the playoffs until the final day.
And the offense – led by Mr. Overwhelmed – gagged it.
3 runs in the final weekend.
Oh, and though I get on Wright because that AB was the biggest (and most symbolic) choke of the season, don’t think I don’t have as much disgust for Reyes either. Another overrated clown who can’t do anything in Sept.
But hey, Wright is the face of the franchise. And some of you have this fantasy about him being a captain.
Well, that means there’s a higher expectation level for Arod Jr.
And he failed.
FAILED.
FAILED
So yes, they’re not in the playoffs because he couldn’t handle it.
Man on 3rd, nobody out……and Pinella PITCHED to the guy.
Tells me all I need to know about him (and what the league knows about him)
Furioso, you have gone from being silly and perversely amusing to being a truly idiotic clown. Wright hit over .300 with RISP his whole career until this year, and most likely will again next year.
Teams pay scouts and have minor league systems to try and produce players like David Wright. He did not have enough support, and the bullpen “choked” away dozens of leads.
You should shut the hell up, learn something about baseball, and stop with your complete idiocy.
Yeah, and other teams produce guys like Wright, except those guys seem to produce in the clutch when it counts.
Throw all the stats for Arod jr you want at me, here’s your two stats:
2 CHOKES IN A ROW. (3 actually, going back to the NLCS where Wright also failed to show up)
So you can enjoy your precious Arod Jr, but some of us would like to see them win. And this scared sh*t Wright (and Reyes) aren’t the ones to get it done.
Maybe if they’re in a support role, but that means getting Manny to overshadow them.
Victorino is a punch and judy hitter. He only got that hit because the Dodgers had a no-name pitching.
is our bullpen playing for the dodgers tonight…
andre ethier should be shot for swinging at the first pitch after romero walked the leadoff man. he cost his team the world series.
andre ethier had the worst at bat i have ever seen in the playoffs. complete moron. completely ruined the game.
honestly when is brad lidge going to blow a save?
First game…..Next season
he never should have had the chance if it wasn’t for the disgrace that was andre ethier.
watching brad lidge makes me think the title for this post should say “Omar Minaya learns his lesson too late”. we couldve gotten the ultimate undervalued closer last offseason or anytime after 2005 when Billy Wagner was telling Omar to get lidge on the mets.
Hindsight is 20/20 but we have no idea how Lidge would react to pitching the 8th rather than the 9th. Most closers struggle in that role. I don’t blame Omar for not getting Lidge, I really thought he was ruined when Pujols hit that ball and he followed it up by giving up a HR to Podsednik in the WS.
You’re suprised Minaya learned his lesson too late? How long did it take him to learn not to sign and rely heavily on old, injury-prone latinos?
(Oh wait, he maybe still hasn’t learned that one….we’ll see)
i understand hind sight is 20/20 but he was an 8th inning guy before he was a closer and wagner was in omars ear about it. thats why its frustrating. if wagner never said anything about it then i wouldnt be as mad.
Yes, because Church, Schnieder, Heilman, Pagan, Wise, Schoenweis, a terrible manager for the first half are the fault of old injury prone latinos. If you want to say Minaya stinks as a GM because he didn’t fix the problems I’m not going to argue. However, playing the old, latino card is weak and getting tiresome. Most of the guys who let us down this season seem to be from all races, colors and creeds.
Racism is the product of truly mediocre minds which cannot compete on level playing fields and who have nothing to say.
Racism is absolutely appropriate for a sad mind like that of Furioso.
Back that comment up.
Because noting that Pedro Alou Duque and now Castillo are injury prone latinos sure isn’t racism.
But hey, you’re a pedophile.
What is the point of mentioning ethnicity unless you mean it in a negative way?
Seriously man, why mention that they are Latino? Can you answer that?
Unless the point of mentioning race is to show that a boss only hires people of his own race which would make it you who is crying racism.
I am not even sure who you are directing this to, but have you looked at the Met roster? We do have many non-Latin players. The young guys Parnell, Niese, Murphy, Evans, Kunz, etc—-how many of them are Latin? Omar hires the best players in his mind. And baseball history of, say, the last 50 years, shows that there are many great Latin players.
I guess it is best for me to exit this conversation, but I will leave you with the immortal words of legendary little league manager Morris Buttermaker, who once said to his non-Latino right fielder Ahmad Abdul-Rahim “Let’s leave racism out of it–we have enough problems as it is!”
Hey Omar established his pattern with Duque Pedro Alou and then he kept it up with Castillo so what’s the problem?
Even noting someone’s ethnicity is now racist? WOW.
Hypersensitive a bit are ya?
Oh well. At least you have your 2 straight chokes to enjoy I suppose.
Not hypersensitive at all, and you are entitled to your opinion. I just think most people look at Duque, Pedro, Alou, and Castillo as moves which did not work out, not moves with Latin players which did not work out.
How about Schoeneweis, which I would argue was perhaps the worst signing of them all?
How about Wagner? How about trading for Church and Schneider? Murphy, Evans, Niese, Parnell, Kunz. Hojo and Oberkfell and Jerry and Warthen. Stokes and Knight. Pelfrey, Joe Smith and Marlon Anderson.
This attitude is just like focusing on the times when players fail instead of when they succeed. You are cherry-picking certain players to fit into a certain view of things, which I feel is incorrect.
We don’t only sign players of certain ethnicities, that just isn’t true.
You know I used to envy people who lived in NJ and NY who had the ability to see a game almost anytime they wanted either at Shea or in Philly. Now with the Phillies looking like they are headed to the WS, I don’t envy you one bit. I don’t want to be anywhere near Philly if these idiots make the WS and their fans have any reason to gloat over us.
As if 2 straight division titles over our chokes weren’t already reason for them to gloat?
Division Titles are pretty much meaningless. I have to say as an out of town Mets fan I never try to play the “we won the division in 06″ card. The first thing I point to is our 2000 NL Pennant. Pennants and WS are what matter.
if you’re gonna cry racism, you better back it up
how bout you back yourself out of this blog, youve got nothing to say that anyone cares about. you add nothing but GARBAGE to some decent baseball discussions so hit the bricks.
with every phillies win i fall deeper and deeper into depression. would somebody PLEASE beat this team. dodgers aint up to it so hopefully the rays/redsox will beat the CRAP out of them in the ws cause i swear, i pennant is bad enough but if they win the whole thing we will NEVER hear the end of it! im getting sick even thinking out it, goodnight all :(
The only positive I can find in this is the fact that most of us (unless you are very, very young) can remember the Phillies winning a pennant (1993). I know the rivalry was less then than what it is now but its not like the Phillies winning the pennant is a new thing we haven’t seen. Hopefully the result of this year is like the result of 1993 though.
We shouldn’t let the Phillies bother us so much. The same way how some of us see the Phillies is how the Mets are seen to them. The Mets gave the Phillies the division. The led in a 7-0 in the 4th and handed the Phillies the game. They were winning 5-2 against the Phillies at Shea and the pen blew it. There was no reason for Santana to have come out of that game either only being at 104 pitches.
The Phillies won the pennant in 93′ and than what? Maybe winning the pennant is what they need to come back down to earth. They’ll probably lose Burrell – an integral part of their team. It doesn’t mean the Mets will get any better, but if more than 4 out of the 7 relievers are there from last season I won’t even bother watching next season’s games.
Its easy to say we shouldn’t let the Phillies success bother us but actually believing it is another story. The whole series I’ve been telling myself its ok if they win the pennant so long as they lose the WS because at least fans my age (20) will be in the same boat as Mets fans (seen a Pennant but no WS title). However, watching them win really bothers me even if I tell myself it doesn’t matter. You can’t take rivalry out of the game. I’m pretty sure no Yankee fan wants Boston to go to the WS and no true Giant fan wants to see the Dodgers in the WS.
It is very sad that some people are immature enough to bring up the idea of race, nationality or any of that period into this. The New York Mets are a business. As is all major league teams. And when you’re a ball player regardless of your ancestry or citizenship, everyone’s looked upon equally.
You know what I believe is even more sad though? The guy who made the prejudice remark convinced you that it being ”Latin” is a race. Latin America is arguably the most diverse region of the world. There is not one race. Nor one country. Nor one anything.
The only people in this world who convincingly believe that all Spanish-speaking people are supposedly the same ethnicity are Americans. And it’s because they’ve been brainwashed by their government and subsequently their media in the past few decades.
There is no such thing as race. It’s a man made idea that comes off out of imperialism, capitalism, religion and many other things. If you’re going to beat people who make insensitive remarks such as him, labeling him a racist or a meanie isn’t the way. Don’t concede to believing in the same system that’s taught him what he does can even be understood.
Absolutely great post, and you are SO right. Thank you.
As for the Phillies, did any of you not expect this series to be over after they won the first 2? It’s been over since than. They had a chance to give themselves some luck tonight, but winning three in a row in LA seemed to be a task that seems to be above their head. And now having 2 of the next 3 in Philly in all must-win games, it won’t get any easier.
The Dodgers could have won this game. The Phillies winning tonight didn’t remind me of my Met miseries. The Dodgers inability to tack on much needed runs and hold a lead reminded me of the ‘08 Mets. Too much actually.
In the sixth inning, LA had 2nd & 3rd with 0 outs and didn’t score a run. In the seventh, they had 2nd & 3rd with 2 outs and didn’t score a run. It felt like Deja Vu to that game when the Mets had runner on 3rd with 0 outs against the Cubs in the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th inning and only scored one.
It’s hard for me to even believe the Phillies earned their way to the World Series, even though they did. The Dodgers have played with no competence. The difference between the Mets of ‘06 and the Phillies of ‘08 is that the Phillies take advantage of LA’s mistakes even if they make mistakes themselves.
I still see the WS winner coming out of the AL because of the home field. Tampa Bay’s pitching is incredible and the Red Sox are 8-0 in their last two World Series. I believe that series is going 7 and Tampa Bay is going to take it. The PHI-DOD series probably goes 6 with Philly making it.
Well, the “bullpen woes” mostly concern set-up pitchers, not the closer—of course you’re going to blow some games when your end-of-the-road guy gets hurt: it’s only to be expected.
K-Rod’s a bit of a drama queen. With his expressions of emotion, an entire level of subtlety & humility is pretty much removed from the game when he’s involved. This demonstrativeness has already ruined football for me–but then again, I like to sit around & read books, so maybe I’m not the “ideal” fan the PR men like to pitch to, anyway. Glitz, sensation, & exploitation…just give me an unhittable pitcher on a warm evening and a bucket of popcorn, and I’ll be happy for 15 innings.
But all this said, who wouldn’t want the guy? I’d love to have someone of his skill in blue & orange, even if he is mostly past his prime.
this filter is killing me. I keep trying a post that I can’t find one hidden bad word in, and it won’t go. And yet, some of the stuff that does get posted amazes me.
GUess I should just spell everything wrong in all caps?
the Phils were actually the dominant team in the east for a while in the late 70’s/early 80’s. Tons of talent. they went to the WS at least twice (80 and 83), and probably should have gone more than that.
But real lucky this year.
So they need to enjoy this run, cause who knows if the miracle will continue with a WS trophy, or if the pendulum swings next year and everything breaks wrong for them.
But, I don’t care. let them win, they earned it.
10 tries and cutting out half the material to get this to post. Absolutely ridiculous, since there was not one obscene word, or anything not G rated, in the post.
You can all guess what else I tried to say, since Big Bro won’t let me do it!
Yeah, I’ve had to give up on a number of posts because I was just comletely foiled at every turn by the censors. Sometimes I just don’t understand what gets a post blocked.
if you bad mouth omar, you get blocked
Although I don’t agree with all of Omar’s moves, I wish that were true. Therefore we would never read one of your post.
Ok I had this debate with Mady last night. Can ANYONE find out what the restrictions on Type A FA are and actually post it. The best I have found is this.
Overall, there could be 70 or more type A/B free agents which means the Mets could sign as many as five type A/B free agents or more based on my understanding of the following free agent rules;
If 39-62 players file for free agency, no team may sign more than 3 such free agent players.
If 63 or more players file for free agency, then there are no such limits applied.
Furthermore, a team may sign as many type A and B free agents as it has lost, regardless of the limits above.
Mady seems to think that somehow this limits it based on Type A and then Type B. Thus there would have to be 63 type A FA alone for a team to be able to sign unlimited type A’s. I see it as if 63 or more players FILE for FA then there are no limits.
This is imperitive because it could change what the Mets do. Juan Cruz and Darren Oliver would be great additions to the pen but according to his theory we could not then sign Manny, Lowe, Krod or any other type A FA.
Even if his theory is true. I have looked and there are already 19 Type A FA pitchers alone.
wow — the phillies are awesome … I envy thier fight, their toughness… they are awesome
i know we’re supposed to hate them, but as a baseball fan, you gotta hand it to them after last night.
When you watch the Phillies you realize that they seem to be a team in which everything falls their way.
Sometimes, teams just have the luck and they win it all as a result. The Patriots are a reminder of this. Then again like the Pats, the Phils are cheaters. I have no doubt they steal signals from the stands.
That said, it’s a Rays world.
I knew the name “Gagne” would elicit approximately 361 comments. Make it 362.