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In an interview with his home-town newspaper, the Crescent News, Jon Niese talks about his time in the minor leagues, and what he learned this season pitching for the Mets.
Niese, on moving beyond September:
“A lot of the New York media and the fans want to dwell on what happened the past two years with the team falling short, but the whole team is ready to move forward and put that behind us.”
In three starts for the Mets this season, the 21-year-old lefty was 1-1 with a 7.07 ERA, with 11 K and 8 BB in 14.0 IP.
He was 11-8 with a 3.13 ERA in 29 combined starts for Triple-A New Orleans and Double-A Binghamton.
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Off topic, but some of you need to be educated:
THEY WERE UP 3.5 WITH 17 TO PLAY
THEY WERE UP 2 ON THE WC WITH 7 TO PLAY
THEY WERE UP FOR A PLAYOFF SPOT IN GAME 162
THE OFFENSE – NOT THE PEN – FAILED THE TEAM 4 OF THE LAST 5 GAMES.
ATOP SCAPEGOATING THE PEN
5 RUNS THE PAST 3 GAMES
2 RUNS IN THE FINAL GAME
MURPHY STRANDED ON 3RD W/ ZERO OUTS
STOP SCAPEGOATING THE PEN!
If the pen performed just averagely all season, they would have been 8 up with 7 to play.
So your argument is to blame the pen because they didn’t provide the team a large enough lead that they couldn’t gag it?
WOW.
Hey, when you’re 4 up with 17 to play and 2 w/ 7 to play, then you cannot blame the pen.
lol if the bullpen performed all year long like the offense did 2nd in the NL in runs then it would never be 2 up with 7 to go.
I agree the offense could have won a couple of those games the last week but the bullpen could have won a hell of allot more games for the Mets all dam year long and come the last week of the season they would be getting ready for the play offs instead of fighting for one.
First off, IM SICK AND TIRED of hearing that old “put it behind us”, “that was last year” stuff. We heard it in 2006 after we lost, we heard it in 2007 and again in 2008. It is starting to look like a pattern here. When we collapse again in 2009 will we hear the same old stuff again? The pen blew 18 games, the highest in the majors, I do beleive? Please correct me if Im wrong. IF we had won just 2 of those games we are in the playoffs. If we had won half of those games we cruise into the playoffs and the Phillies may not even have made it. Yes, the offense went to sleep at the end, but, thats baseball. The pen blew some major leads and some big games for us. Knowing that you dont have a closer and a bad pen puts more pressure on the team and gives the other team a huge advantage. Without some changes we will be having the same discussion next year.
EVERYONE LISTEN TO ME I AM A TOOL AND I DON’T KNOW HOW TO SHUT UP. ALL I DO IS SPEW OUT THE SAME STUFF EVERY SINGLE DAY. I MUST BE HEARD I MUST BE HEARD I MUST BE HEARD . ME ME ME ME ME
Yeah you are a tool.
The pen was not even average. They were god awful. In all my years watching baseball I have never seen a bullpen perform worse then the Mets bullpen did this year.
You’re right. Even Mel Rojas and Anthony Young didn’t seem as bad. If I had the choice, I’d take them over Aaron Heilman.
Whoa!!! Are you sure? Haha.
Exactly, furioso you need to calm it. Sure, the offense “could have” won one of those games. I bet there’s a game from May, and a game from July where we can pinpoint an at-bat and say, with a hit, the Mets would have won.
But that’s ridiculous hindsight. We’re talking about a FULL season – a 162 game body of work here. Not just the las tweekend. With a pathetic bullpen, this team would have won the division. But the bullpen wasn’t even pathetic. It was worse than that. so they didn’t win plain and simple because of the bullpen.
CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK
MORON MORON MORON
Why not? It’s all the pen’s fault. LOL. You’re like Jerome from Manhattan reincarnated as a Mets fan. You’re hysterical.!
Keep it up, the the fricking PHILS are in the NLCS, and precious Wright and Reyes are where?
The morons here are the ones who think the pen is to blame.
You are the only moron who thinks it WASN’T their fault.
Furioso,
I’ve learned a few things about metsblog… you will get respect if you try to have real thoughts. By just saying Wright and Reyes get no blame, you are being very ignorant. They get PLENTY of blame… but trading them or doing something to them is very unintelligent. As much as they may have come up small in september this year, where would the team be without them?
Trying to act like this year didn’t have to do with the bullpen? Coem on bro…add in HALF the games that the bullpen blew (and not just against high octane teams), we win the division going away. And MAYBE just MAYBE WRight and Reyes don’t put a lot of pressure on themselves and have fun. The #1 concern is bullpen and pitching for us…. give it a rest…try having new arguments, you might just get respected here
Not about respect.
The fact is they were in position the final week, and the pen didn’t blow it in those games.
Period.
It’s about accurately evaluating the team.
They blew enough games that the last week or so wouldn’t have mattered because it would have been clinched by then.
seriously furioso…ever heard of SMALL SAMPLE SIZE? thats what you are doing…you are going to take the last week of the year? THe last week of the year should have been a time to let starters go 5, and give players rest…not to be PLAYING for the playoff spot….. open your eyes man
Npanzeca-
So translated, you’re saying that because they didn’t have a 17 game lead thanks to the pen, they get a pa ss for blowing 4 game w/ 17 to play lead.
And a 2 game lead w/ 7 to play.
Ok.
WOW
Mrose-
Small sample size?
2 years in a row.
Good leads with 17 games to play each time.
Twice miss the playoffs.
That’s a pattern my friend.
There’s your sample size
Rose you lost all creditability the day you proclaimed Heilman was a great talent.
Ok moron i’ll bite on this one. i’m saying that the games the bullpen blew early would have made the last few meaningless. if you don’t realize that the bullpen cost us the season then i don’t know what to tell you.
ok let’s not blame the bullpen guys because they pitched not even good but average the last week of the season which was a great improvement to there awful pitching performances all year long. So lets not blame them at all.
I am not given the offense a free pa$$. But the major problem was the bullpen all year.
That is like being mad and blaming a defense in a 7-3 lose because the team was winning 3-0 all game long and the defense who got turnovers all game long lets up a touchdown in the final minutes.
DK…
He does have talent… and i’m not gonna lose sleep that you think I lost credibility…
He has talent…..he can/will be successful somewhere, sorry that you are a complete heilman hater. I’m not saying he didn’t have a bad year…but he does have talent
and Furioso..
they did not simply lose the lead only because of offense…many of those games were also blown because of bullpen..
Hence, you are using the small sample size of the final 5-6 games
FURIOSO THE LAST GAME OF THE SEASON THE BULLPEN BLEW IT. If you want to use the last series as a way to really EVALUATE the team as you just said, then the last game of itself is a microcosm of the season. The bullpen let up the winning runs.
just look at the numbers. I’m not someone who takes numbers and judges teams that way but this offense, hwoever streaky they were, were top 3 in most offensive categories in the NL. They had an above average offense. Their starting pitching was above average. It’s not hard man. When you graduate high schoo you will understand.
“the offense,however streaky they were, were top 3 in most offensive categories in the NL.”
this offense was 25th in MLB with runners in scoring position. That is avery telling stat about this offense and it is mostly on the bullpen, but this offense is very inconsistent.
The bullpen blew the last game of the season?
The offense scored 2 runs off a pitcher they hammer usually.
You’re gonna blame the pen for that one?
WOW
They’re not in the NLCS…they’re in the WS!!
it hurt to type that.
Keep it up, the the fricking PHILS are in the NLCS, and precious Wright and Reyes are where?
-As much as I want to keep you from the ledge, they are in the WS now :-)
Why does Furioso have to be on every day and talk smack? Don’t the spankees have their own site?
I’m beginning to think Furioso is Mike Francessa.
Listen, I understand the bats went cold at the end. In fact, when David Wright couldn’t get Daniel Murphy home with nobody out vs. the Cubs I really think that was sort of the last straw.
But to not put a signficant amount of blame on the horrid bullpen is just ignorant. Not only in the last few weeks of the season (um, like vs. Atlanta) but through the whole season.
Think about some of the gut wrenching games the bullpen blew for Santana. Like vs. the Phillies when Wagner wasn’t available. Or Wagner blowing that day game vs. the D-Backs at Shea.
I hate to break it to you Francessa/Furioso, but the games in April, May, June and July count just as much as the ones in August and September.
Speaking of Francessa, here is what he had to say regarding the Mets, as per Dugout Central:
1. The Mets need to break up their core. Preferably trading David Wright.
2. They have no chance for a title in 2009.
3. The Mets only get a big name player if the Yankees let them.
4. David Wright is a “Dime a Dozen” player
5. The Bullpen woes is an excuse to feel better about the Mets collapse
There is apparently a rift between Wright and the Fat boy, which may account for the extra ridiculousness you see here.
Hate to say it but I agree with Fatso on all points (*spit*)
And don’t dare complain on #3…..because if the Yanks weren’t idiots they’d have gotten both Beltran and Johan easily.
What, who is this dude anyway?
#1 The Mets need to break up the core? What drugs are you one dude? They need to change some postion players, like LF, Catcher, 2B and perhaps 1B. BUT, Not the whole team.
#2 They have NO chance in 2009? I almost agree with you , IF, they do nothing this off season. We will need 2 starting pitchers, a few arms in the pen and a closer at the least. If they do that we may have a chance.
#3 The Mets . like the Red Sox or any other team can get any player they want if they throw a ridiclous contract ( like 4 years for LC) and a huge amount of money at them.
#4 David Wright is the METS, its that simp[le. Just like Derek Jeter is the Yankees. He is not a superstar, yet, give him some time.
#5 The pen was an excuse? Your correct that was an excues of a pen. They stunk so bad and blew more games than the NATS did. Look at the game against the Phillies when we had a 10-1 lead and barely won it 10-9, that was a joke. They had more games like that than I care to remember.
Go back and put on your Yankee hat and shirt and prey that the Yankees can finish above third in 2009.
regarding number 5:
David Wright has become in a very short time, a perennial all-star/mvp candidate, puts up a .300+avg/30+HR/100+RBI line playing in a pitchers park his entire career with gold glove defense, and has not even hit his prime yet! He is a superstar.
ravi3, i agree with that 100%, a lot of people need to stop hating on Wright because he is yet to reach his prime and he already is a superstar.
“David Wright is the Mets”
So sad and true.
And David Wright is a choker who couldn’t get a fly ball to drive a runner from 3rd and 0 outs in the biggest spot of the season.
Furious…You troll! Scram!
When you strand Murphy on 3rd w/ zero outs in April, you have a much larger amount of time to recover than you do when you strand him the final week.
That is a terrific point actually. Every game is important, but this is why the games in September are very important.
Thats BS….April or September, each win or loss by itself is only worth .5 in the standings. Take care of business in April-June, and you’ve got nothing to worry about come September.
So they get a pa ss for not taking care of business in Sept? Gotcha!
PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!! WORLD SERIES BABY!!!!
Newsflash, pal:
You still root for a team in Philadelphia…no matter what you think…no matter what they do, your city is a city filled with losers….always will
The people, the town, everything about it…LOSERS
exactly your city is a sh*t hole.
Where are the Muts Mr Roach2? How appropriate your user name is Roach since you live in roach infested immigrant filled slum that is NY.
GO PHILS !!!
Talk about an inferiority complex…in the world series and STILL on a mets blog…
The METS are sitting at home watching a good ball club go to the world series….
But some of them are still living in the greatest city in the US. Philadelphia is and always will be a crap town.
we may have roaches and immigrants here, but i’ll take them over Philadelphians ANY DAY
The Philatios are in the WS. And yet trolls troll other sites! How sad? Still living in your mother’s basement?
The difference betweeen NY and Philly is that in NY roaches are otherwise known as annoying bugs that people step on, in Philly raoches are otherwise known as citizens.
I come in here expecting a civil debate instead, once again, Furioso is being a retard.
Good luck. Notice that I have had limited post the last few days. The entire site is full of guys like him, philly fans and guys who want us to trade garbage for Adrian Gonzalez.
Manny’s playoff numbers:
520 BA and .667 OBP, 4 home runs (in 8 games), 7 for 8 with RISP
So glad we didn’t get that guy and make the playoffs… nice job Omar!
Considering the Dodgers gave up Andy LaRoache to get him, who was considered the 13th best prospect in baseball (Mets top prospect, FMart, was much lower on the totem pole), who would you have sent away for Manny? Would you then complain about the thin farm system?
The pirates have Neil Walker.. and drafted Pedro Alvarez? And oh yeah.. La Roache is a bust! So don’t even begin to tell me that we couldn’t of beaten their offer.. the last thing pittsburgh needed was ANOTHER corner infield prospect.
I would of given whoever they wanted… when he leaves.. we get 2 more 1st round draft picks!
And we make the plaoyffs…
Are you enjoying watching the Phillies go to the world series?
im sure nobody is enjoying the phills in the WS but did manny get the dodgers to the world series…no. The bottom line is it takes a team not just one good player. Manny is a hellova player but not even he can carry a team to the WS byhimself.
Obviously I don’t enjoy seeing the Phils in the WS, but fact of the matter is that the Dodgers put together a better offer than the Mets could have. Regardless of what you seem to think would work, you are not the Pirates GM. They acquired LaRoche before Alvarez even signed, so that point is irrelevent.
Of course I may have missed the part where you were talking with the Pirates GM to know that he would have preferred any Mets prospect over LaRoache…
This isn’t a videogame. Just because Omar didn’t get Manny doesn’t mean he could have. There are two sides to a trade.
thank you ravi…videogame and fantasy team trades do not work in real life…
Oh my god, thank you. It was like nobody else realized that the Dodgers sent away their big prospects to get the trade done.
Uh.. actually.. their “big” prospect was Carlos Santana, who is now in the top 50.. and he went to get Casey Blake…
LaRoache has been a total bust…
If the dodgers had LaRoache.. and he was so good.. do you think they would of started Blake DeWitt and traded for Casey Blake over him?? Think about it!!
They needed a 3rd baseman.. yet traded away this “stud” 3rd base prospect!
Get a clue.. they fleeced the pirates!!
Unless you were willing to give up F-Mart, you get a clue.
Gee let’s see… F-mart.. whos being down graded by the second…
For a playoff birth.. and two 1st round draft picks?
So.. no more choke jokes.. I would of gotten to watch post season baseball this year.. and at the end.. gotten TWO first round draft picks…
Or… I get to watch the Phils go go the world series.. and wonder if F-mart will actually be healthy enough to play AA for the 3rd year in a row?
yes.. I’ll take option #1…..
Forget giving up F-mart, we just didn’t have the pieces to get it down. Regardless of our opinion on Laroche or how he’s performed he was a top 20 prospect in baseball at the time. F-mart isn’t even top 50 according to some scouts now. We did not have the pieces to get it done.
We certainly did.. we just didn’t want too.. and fans like you are too scared too since we refuse to spend in the draft.
stilltheEWM….Man….where to begin:
“Uh.. actually.. their “big” prospect was Carlos Santana, who is now in the top 50.. and he went to get Casey Blake…”
Um….Clearly math isn’t your thing….13th best prospect (LaRoache) > top 50 prospect.
For the record, FMart, out best prospect, is close in ranking to Carlos Santana….The best that Omar could do is Blake for Fmart – No thanks.
“If the dodgers had LaRoache.. and he was so good.. do you think they would of started Blake DeWitt and traded for Casey Blake over him?? Think about it!!
They needed a 3rd baseman.. yet traded away this “stud” 3rd base prospect!”
This is an absolutely inane point. Where to start….Blake DeWitt stepped in for LaRoache when he got hurt and performed very well. The Casey Blake deal, was a precursor to the Manny deal, which was consummated 3 days later. More than a 3rd baseman, they needed a player who can carry their offense. So, when opportunity presented itself, LA acquired arguably the best RH hitter of our generation. The result? An NLCS appearance.
The Dodgers went for it now. In no way can LaRoache today replicate what Manny did.
And for the record, you are calling him a bust despite the kid not having a full year in the bigs.
We wouldn’t have had the pieces to make the trade in the first place. If we did it probably would have been like F-mart, Niese, Murphy possibly more.
Right.. cause the Dodgers gave up a package even close to that…
F-mart would of gotten it done.
You are an idiot. Laroche is considered a top 20 prospect, F-mart isn’t even considered top 50 by some scouts now. They got a high risk high reward player in Tabata in the Yankee trade. Laroche is considered a sure thing by prospects. They would not have taken F-mart. It doesn’t matter how he’s performed now, it matters what the opinion was at the time. At the time he was a top 20 prospect.
And by your Casey Blake logic Murphy must be worthless too, since we waited until we’d gone through like 4 left fielders, 2 of whom were kind of crappy, before he got called up.
Wow name calling.. there’s a mature way to win an arguement..
LaRoache WAS a top 20 prospect.. who has FLOPPED in the big leagues..
When Blake DeWitt beats you out for a starting job… and you get sent down to the minors.. guess what.. your value isn’t exactly that high…
Toss in the fact the Pirates have Neil Walker… Pedro Alvreaz.. AND Adam LaRoache.. what exactly did they need another 3rd base prospect for???
Face it.. the Mets had PLENTY of chips to get Manny.. and sat on their hands..
As I note above.. the player they gave up for Casey Blake is infinetly better then Andy LaRoache.
So stop calling people names.. and GET A CLUE
I’m sorry did the Pirates have a future seeing machine that told then Laroche was going to struggle in his first season? And do you know how many top prospects have struggled in their first season and turned it around?
Dewitt beat him out because of defense, but regardless what does it matter, Evans got called up before Murphy, we used Anderson and the offensive black holes that are Damion Easley and Endy Chavez lf for like 2 months and traded for Trot Nixon before Murphy got his chance. Does that mean he’s worthless too? And Alvarez hadn’t been signed at the time they traded for him, plus they can always move their positions. I mean does us drafting Ike Davis mean Carp/Evans/Murphy are worthless?
And the player they traded for Blake was their 24th ranked prospect, he was like 22/23 in low A ball, thats why he puts up monster numbers,. I’m sure if we dropped Murphy or Evans down to low A ball they’d be raking too. He hasn’t done anything above that level and he’s going to be turning 23 a few weeks into next season. Plus he’s a catcher and was going to be blocked by Martin forever anyway.
You keep bringing up that Laroche hasn’t done anything in the majors, F-mart hasn’t even done anything in the minors, yet, so how does that help your case?
wow never seen you this animated before gina but again your right.
EWM your missing the point. Your perception has laroche where you feel he is NOW. At the time of the trade he still had alot of value and upside. I dont think the mets had enough to get manny and even if we did have the pieces…it would have set our team back for years to come in regards to the talent we would have to cough up. Even with manny..it takes a team to win and the mets main problem has been the bullpen. You cannot score 100 points and your bullpen gives up 102 and expect to win every night. If we were the dodgers right now and we gave up half the farm for manny and we STILL didnt get the job done and manny is a FA…who do you think go the short end of the deal…..
A time machine???
he had 96 at bats for the dodgers in 2007 which he batted .226!!!
in 59 more at bats he batted .203!!!!!!
All the pirates had to do was watch film.. they didn’t need a time machine!!!
You are seriously basing your agument, that the mets couldn’t beat an offer of a career .184 hitter? Who had failed to batt higher then .226 in over 150 career at bats???
Prospects are judged based on ceiling, as well as performance.. F-mart has much more projection then LaRoache… and is easily more marketable then the now 24 year old La Roache who owns a career batting average of .184!!
Keeping telling me how good LaRoache is.. please!
Dirty spare me..
in 2007 (one full year before the trade) LaRoache batted a cool .226
in 2008.. again he batted .203 with the dodgers..
You tell me where the upside is??
And in case you were wondering, he batted .152 for the pirates in 164 at bats..
He is a BUST.. and the Dodgers knew it..
We fell one game short… ONE GAME… look at Manny’s 2nd half..
Look at the game where Murphy is on 3rd with NO OUTS and he doesn’t score the winning run!
We had to start Nick Evans in the last game of the season!
If you can’t see the different that Manny would of made for this team, both on paper, and the clubhous ethen I can’t help you…
Toss in the two first round draft picks.. the Manny move was a no brainer.
But instead.. we get to watch the Phils win the world series.. we’ll give Alou 8 million for 30 at bats.. and Pedro 15 to get rocked evrery time out.
Great job Omar.. way to earn that 3 year extension!
“We fell one game short… ONE GAME… look at Manny’s 2nd half..”
-first off you nor I know what the package to get manny would have took…perhaps the very same people that made it POSSIBLE for us to be a game out would have been included to get manny. Like i said you can score 100 runs…if you bullpen cannot secure a lead you lose and that was problem with the mets. Yes the offense had its stuggles but overall the bullpen could not get the job done to secure ANYTHING.
“Look at the game where Murphy is on 3rd with NO OUTS and he doesn’t score the winning run!”
-Yes that was bad..but look at the next inning that stokes gives up a 2run hr to ramirez….
“We had to start Nick Evans in the last game of the season!”
-We had to use john niese for 3 starts…Dont really understand your point here.
“But instead.. we get to watch the Phils win the world series.. we’ll give Alou 8 million for 30 at bats.. and Pedro 15 to get rocked evrery time out”
-Did manny get traded to the phillies or dodgers….i cant remember….must have been the phillies because they are going to the WS…
“If you can’t see the different that Manny would of made for this team, both on paper, and the clubhous ethen I can’t help you…”
-Yes i can see the differance but bottom line the offensive increase manny would have brought would be invalidated by the pen not being able to secure leads…and if you cant see that i cant help you
“Prospects are judged based on ceiling, as well as performance.. F-mart has much more projection then LaRoache…”
-based on what…Fmarts major league ab….prospect rating….
Even with the pen we were one game short… look at Manny’s 2nd half numbers… they speak for themselevs.. and more then make up for the 1 game we were short this season.
The bottom line. is.. the mets did NOTHING at the break.. they didn’t get Manny.. they didn’t fix the pen.. they left their fanst to twist in the mind AGAIN..
My original point is that Omar did a terrible job.. and if you’re going to point to the bullpen that he didn’t fix.. well then I guess we can agree on something.
Go ask 30 GMs who’d they’d rather have.. a 19 year old playing AA…
or a 24 year old who can’t hit .230… int he majors…
I’m pretty sure all 30 would say the 19 year old…
F-mart and a Mike Carp gets us Manny for FUN.
The statement that Walker and Alvarez make the Pirates overloaded at third is simply not true. Walker made his name as a prospect as a catcher, a position at which he had pretty good relative offensive potential. His move to third and continuing offensive struggles has made him pretty much a non-prospect at this point. He had a .694 OPS as a full-time age-appropriate AAA hitter last year- that’s not going to cut it as a major league 3B. Alvarez has yet to play any pro ball and is tangled up in a nasty contract dispute- there’s a very good chance that he’ll never play in the Pirates organization, and even if he does, he’s a ways off from even potentially being able to contribute at the MLB level. This is a position of much greater need for the Pirates than the outfield, where they have McLouth, McCutchen, Pearce, and a whole host of other young players with potential. We can disagree on LaRoache’s potential, but his position is clearly a much bigger need for the Bucs than the role F-Mart would potentially fill.
Uh.. Alvarez actually signed his contract….
So there’s is NO CHACE he DOESNT play for the pirates…
next time check your facts…
In 2003, at the age of 25, older than Laroche, Chase Utley came up and hit .239 and had an ops like 10 points higher than Laroche’s current one. Should the phils have decided he was worthless too? Corey Hart hit .193 in 2005, was he worthless? Garret Atkins hit .159 at 24 when he was called up, how about him? Plenty of prospects don’t hit when they first get called up and turn out fine.
Laroche just turned 25 this sept, and he had a .987 ops in triple A in 07 and an .891 OPS this year. And even with his lack of hits in the major his career obp was .346. And was still considered by scouts to be a top 20 prospect in baseball. There was, and still is, no reason for them to value a 19 year old who is nothing but projections at this point over him.
The Dodgers who have had LaRoache his whole career.. traded for Casey Blake… and but Blake DeWitt over him.. doesn’t that tell you anything?
The kid was.. and continues to be a bust.. in 316 At Bats his career batting average is .184
Thatos hundreds of poitns lower for the same career numbers of Utely, and Atkins, and Hart at the same points their careers.
F-mart would of made the trade worked…easily…
By the way.. F-mart was #20 in Baseball America’s top 100 list for 2008
So you can throw out your Adam LaRoache top 20 arguement too.
Alvarez did indeed finally sign his new contract last month, but he hadn’t as of the time of the trade, which is the only thing that matters from the Pirates perspective. That he would eventually sign almost twomonths later was not something the Bucs could have forseen with any confidence at that point.
Even if they did, that doesn’t change the facts that Alvarez may not stay at third for more than a couple of years for defensive reasons (he’s not a liability yet, but he doesn’t project as a very good 3B either), and if you were to ask a GM if having a quality college prospect who’s never played in pro ball would prevent them from getting someone who has already performed extremely well at the AAA level, none of them would take you up on that.
lol EWM spare me
“My original point is that Omar did a terrible job.. and if you’re going to point to the bullpen that he didn’t fix.. well then I guess we can agree on something.”
-Ill agree that there were people that returned to the pen that i had no idea why in sosa. Wise was not a good canidate either but nobody could really give me this super stud reliever that apparently was available that omar should have gotten in 07 FA….
“The bottom line. is.. the mets did NOTHING at the break.. they didn’t get Manny.. they didn’t fix the pen.. they left their fanst to twist in the mind AGAIN..”
-Your mad the mets didnt get manny. That is your point. Your willing to sacrifice the future on this team on a guy that even traded to a team with a better bullpen and better team could not get the job done. Thats fine your entitled to your opinon as distorted and unprioritized as they are. Omar did trade hernandez for ayala who gave us 9 saves. Yes he had blown saves also but i felt much better with ayala coming in than heilman/stokes/feliciano/show.
“Even with the pen we were one game short… look at Manny’s 2nd half numbers… they speak for themselevs.. and more then make up for the 1 game we were short this season.”
-So you praising omar for the job he did with the pen but mad that he didnt get manny. Nobody is saying anything about mannys second half. Do the math…30 blown saves……if they would have blown half of that we make the playoffs w/o manny no problem. If lidge didnt have a perfect save record…we make the playoffs no problem…..again if you cannot understand this concept your on your own.
So you want to sacrifice the future LF for us for someone who will be a FA..probably has 2 or 3 years left of good production. By the time manny is done with his time in ny fmart will be 23/24….not even in his prime with another team. We would have had a cheap option under control for many years with fmart but you want to blow that for a guy who will be here for 2 or 3 years tops….good stratigic planning……And again i harp the point which i noticed you did not address in your response…THE DODGERS DIDNT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS EVEN WITH MANNY..
Ha and in 2008 LaRoache was all the way down to 31!!
That means to START 2008.. LaRoache was ranked 11 spots LOWER then F-mart by baseball America…
So tell me again how we didnt have a prospect to match the deal?????
Dirty.. how am I sacrificing the future of this team.. when signing Manny gets me two first round draft picks??? And we have the budget to sign whomever we want???
How is adding two picks to the draft for next year taking away from our precious farm system that you’re so worried about??
Did you complain when we lost our 1st round pick to sign Pedro?
How about when we lost our 1st round pick for Mosies Alou??? Those moves hurt our farm system???
Yet you’re against adding draft picks to sign the best hitting left fielder in baseball?
What do you mean the Dodger’s DIDN’T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS?
Are you out of your freaking mind????
You realize baseball america is the end all of prospect ranking right? baseball prospectus had laroche at 14 and f-mart in the 50s. And considering the pirates current front office are supposed to be heavy into metrics I’d as-sume they’re opinion aligned more with baseball prospectus than baseball america’s.
All you guys ganging up on me need to make up yor minds..
Gina says LaRoache couldn’t beat out Blake DeWitt cause of defense..not the fact that he couldn’t crack that .230 mark….
KidfromQueens didn’t know until 5 minutes ago that Alvarez had signed, and now is already telling me that his defense will force him to move.. and La Roache’s is better.
Queens spare me.. the pirates had every intention of signing Pedro.. and they DID sign Pedro… they didn’t even know there was a problem with the deal until days after it was done…
Even baseball america had F-mart ranked 11 spots higher on the prospect level then La Roache…
Give it up guys.. f-mart would of gotten the deal done.
Oh my god give it up Gina..
He holds a .184 career batting average in 300 plus at bats.. and he plays the same position as their top draft choice this year who they gave a record bonus too..
They cant move him to 1st cause his brother is there. and he can atually hit…
if you want to argue like your friend Dirty that F-mart was too much to pay for Manny.. that’s fine.. but you don’t have a leg to stand on if your argument is that LaRoachei s somehow more valuable then F-mart in the trade market.
I’m off to lunch boys.. for those of you who didn’t resort to name calling.. thanks for the debate.
That’s a great point about BA, GIna- in 2007, LaRoche had a .988 OPS as a 23-year old in AAA. Pretty much every prospect ranking system had him ranked extraordinarily highly at the beginning of the season, and rightfully so…
my point is very simple EWM…just because we trade for manny does not guarentee
a) a playoff spot
b) a WS title
Yes i do know the importance of draft picks but let me ask you this…you expect whoever we draft to step into the ML scene? This is your logic(correct me if im wrong) We trade fmart + (whoever) and get manny….we dont have the money to resign manny so we get draft picks for him….the person who we draft will play LF…..
Drafted talent needs time to develop..who would take over LF now and in the future….
If we want manny now we can sign him and have a viable backup for many years to come when mannys time is done here. Your logic would leave us with a hole that we would be plugging up by signing more FA to fill and yes giving up draft picks in the process because we can take only so much of tatis/evans/murphy/pagan in LF over the course of the year when those guys are bench guys to begin with..
Thanks for losing the debate..have a nice lunch
I also think the important point here is not who was inherently more valuable in an abstract trade market- it has to do with the team’s needs, and signing a college player, no matter how good he is, doesn’t preclude you from signing a young elite AAA player at the same position, especially when you know you might have to move that college player to a different position in a couple of years. The Bucs’ outfield is already stacked for years to come, even if a prospect or two of theirs out there flame out. Even if they liked F-Mart more in the long run generally, they’d be insane to be so confident in either Walker suddenly turning things around or signing Alvarez (again, remember, at the time, things didn’t look like they were going to work out and most Pirate fans wanted them to be rid of Alvarez immediately) that they would instead turn to a prospect at a position where they’re already very deep.
And one last quick point- judging someone with an excellent minor league track record on their first few hundred MLB ABs is just a bad idea. By the same token, you could have argued at the beginning of this season that Pelf was an obvious bust based on two years of struggling part time in the majors (he pitched 94 innings across 06 and 07- a little less than half a season’s full time work- just like LaRoche’s 07 and 08)….
Have a nice lunch…
Omar wanted him the WIlpons did not want him
I would say if we got Manny, the playoffs were a lock.
He hit 17 home runs in less then 2 months.. and we fell one game short…
Do you really think Murphy doesn’t score from 3rd with no outs if Manny is up there?
Nick Evans staretd the last game of the season!!
“ready to move forward and put that behind us.”
I can’t tell you how sick I am of hearing athletes use that line.
Whether they broke the law, got caught with their pants down, did drugs, got drunk, cheated on their wife, made a error, or simply failed in the clutch – they all want to ‘just put it behind them’.
Let’s just make it like it never happened at all! Wouldn’t life be grand if we could all do that!
“A lot of the New York media and the fans want to dwell on what happened the past two years with the team falling short, but the whole team is ready to move forward and put that behind us.”
And with that attitude…..choke 3 (or 4 depending on how you view 2006 ) is on the way
You are one miserable, dude. Get over it, will you?
Were you watching the same games the rest of us were?
Did you not realize, there would be no reason for ‘clutch’ hitting – as you keep harping on – if going into the 7th, 8th or 9th, that 4-2 lead we had was given up by the pen and now what would have been tack on runs becomes must have runs?
There should be no reason to score 8 runs a game to win if you’ve got a decent pen.
You have blinders on. Or you’re related to those guys in the BP….
Yup, they were 4 up w/ 17 to go TERRIBLE BULLPEN!
The problem with Furioso is that when he comes on here, we all react like Pavlov’s dog (me included) and get angry at his ignorance and we all respond. Look at how many comments he generates.
Furioso may be a teenager, he may be 60, but he doesn’t understand baseball. YES we all know Wright didn’t get Murphy home from 3rd–we all know, we all watched the game. However, as I have tried to point out, while Wright did have a down year with RISP in 2008, he hit over .300 in those spots every year before this year, and most likely will again next year. And his career is on a clear HOF path, and he is very likely the best non-pitcher the Mets system has ever produced.
Plus, if Wright wasn’t doing all of his nefarious “stat padding” in May, June, July, etc, we never would have been in the position to choke on the last weekend anyway.
Furioso clearly gauges his self-worth by how much attention he gets on this board, and it is sad indeed.
I asked him very nicely the other day just who should replace Wright and Reyes, and he could not come up with ONE NAME.
Furioso should be ignored, and then maybe he would go away.
woah woah…theres no room here for logical posts kingman…next time post it in Caps too.
lol
Well said, Kingman.
And I’ve got no problem with opposite or even negative opinions. My problem with the likes of Furioso is it’s the same post over and over and over and over and over and over and over – again….
Half the time I skip over it it if I see his name, knowing it’s nothing new. Every once in a while I read it, like this morning, thinking maybe he’s finally moved on. But no, dude just cannot let go.
Yes, it;s the same post from me over and over because all I read here is BLAME THE PEN!!!!
So yeah, I’m responding to that plenty.
Not my fault brutha
“…but the whole team is ready to move forward and put that behind us.”
Translation: The last time we checked, our checks were were still coming in the mail.
Advice: On the subject of moving forward, I hope that you enjoy your new digs in Buffalo!
I nominate Furioso for dumbest person on the planet……
I am so glad you were able to find the caps lock button. I understand it is one of the hardest keys to find on the keyboard but you did, sport! We are all awfully proud of your accomplishments today.
Nordberg: boat
Frank Drebbin: that’s right Nordberg. when you feel better, we’ll go sailing again.
Nordberg: drugs
Frank Drebbin: nurse, get this man some drugs.
Nordberg: no….heroin!
Frank Drebbin: that’s a pretty tall order Nordberg, you’ll have to give me some time on that one.
Enough with the ‘moving on’ talk. Just shut up and play better.
Plan to fix the Mets:
Sign Manny
Sign Lowe
Sign ODawg
Trade Heilman
Trade Church and get Eric Brynes
Let Parnell and Kunz pitch out of the ‘pen to start the season
Why would you rather have Brynes than Church?
Also IMO, there’s really no reason for Parnell not to be either in the pen or the first guy they plan on calling up from the farm system, at the start of the season.
Neise: “…but the whole team is ready to move forward and put that behind us.”
1 — Well, Gezze, I hope so!
2 — Seems to me I’ve heard this song before.
I just don’t understand what people like Furioso are trying to accomplish with their posts. Do you like the Mets or not? Do you want them to succeed or not? Do you think Omar is reading this and is going to call you and thank you for showing him the light?
Well first off if he is a Mets fans and wants to think what he wants tot think then whatever fine.
If he is not a Mets fan and comes on here just to annoy all of you well then he has no life.
What do I hope to accomplish? With you people nothing, but if you refuse to be educated it’s not my fault for lack of trying
Mets fans treat this franchise entirely too well
Man Ram in 09 lol
By the way, anyone hear during the broadcast of last night’s game what the Phils did to Victorino after Game 4? I guess he pointed his finger in the air while rounding the bases (oh god, the horror). They posted a sign in his locker that said “J. Reyes”. These guys need to move past the Mets. I can say, as Giants fan, there is no team I hate more than the Eagles. That team never once crossed my mind in the playoffs or Super Bowl.
Grow up, Phils.
I head that comment too and I got to admit, it bugged me that they even have to bring up the Mets while making their run. I was surprised it wasn’t brought up on this site earlier. I as a fan of the sport see what the Phil are doing and am a bit jealous. Jealous that it isn’t my team doing that, but when it is all said and done, I was hoping the Phils could take the hight road and let sleeping dogs lie. Nope, they just couldn’t do it.
Dont worry they will crash and burn in the WS
We’re talking about the same team that sees purposely injuring players as ok. Heck if we still had metal cleats I don’t even wanna think about how many ‘accidental’ slides into people we’d see.
It takes a big man to talk smack about a team that is already down and out (i.e. Cardinals chanting “jose, jose” in 2006). Especially a team that claims to be the quintessential baseball team and playing the game the way it’s supposed to be played, etc. Guess we can throw all that out the window right now.
are we really surprised? look at the guys that make up this team they’re all trash just like the people who root for them and the people who live in their city (not directed at you few unfortunate transplant NYers). They hate when the mets celebrate but have no problem doing it themselves, they try to injure people and blatently throw at opposing players but when it happens to them they cry “oh please dont hit me in the head”, if you dont want to get hit in the head tell your pitchers not to go headhunting.
well said Zeile, it sounds like a Philthy double standard.
You know what the double standard is?
WINNING.
Mets should try it sometime
so furioso….if the mets could replace wright at 3b….would a player that hits 300, 25+hr, 100 rbi, 100runs and since we need someone to be clutch…lets say his career average RISP is around 300, late and close is around 300….and since DW cant get it done down the stretch (aug/sept) he would bat 320 or so in those months….do you think this guy could be the fix the mets need?
Isn’t this chain supposed to be about Niese?
My suggestion is to move him into the pen for ‘09 and make him into our version of Joba.
1) The guy’s best pitch is a curveball, which I’ve heard puts a lot of pressure on the arm and thus he may fade towards the end of the season with a lot of innings on his arm.
2) He’s a young guy without a few years of 180+ innings on his arm and will fade as the season gets older.
3) The Mets need a couple of workhorses in their rotation that can take the pressure of the pen. Niese in the starting rotation would only add to the problem of having too many 5-6 inning pitchers.
I just see this guy as an Adam Wainright type reliever for us next season. he may not be the closer, but I think he can work his way into being a dominant 8th inning guy in front of a veteran free agent closer.
Of course I said the same thing about Pelfrey at this time last year and look how that turned out. The main difference though is that Pelf is a fastball pitcher whereas Niese has the big hook.
Furioso = Jerome from Manhattan (the Mets version). He’s hysterical!
Tony Bernazard didn’t make the cut for M’s GM. Nooooooooooo.
ugh worst news ever!
why doesnt kooz work with niese????