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Bill Price at the Daily News expresses his disbelief over the Phillies’ fans new rally cry, “Ya Gotta Believe”.
Price writes:
“Go on any Phillies message board, look at the banners in their tiny little stadium, find any fan who is somewhat sober (good luck) and you will find the phrase “Ya Gotta Believe.”
“Yes, the late McGraw coined the phrase and was a great Phillie. But any real baseball fan will tell you “Ya Gotta Believe” is a McGraw/Met thing, not a McGraw thing than can be transferred from one franchise to another.”
…that’s like mets fans waving rally monkeys or screaming “fire isiah”, it just doesn’t make sense…
It was coined in 1973 – LOOK IT UP! The problem is most Phillies fans can’t read.
No, it’s more like most Philly fans became fans on Oct 1, 2008.
Just another benefit of the Phils in the post season and not us.. thanks again Omar!
agreed
As long as their World Series experience is the same as our “Ya Gotta Believe” season was in 73,….then it will all work out.
ta gotta believe, the Girl Horses are going down!
(a philly is a girl horse, ha,ha)
I GOTTA BELIEVE that the Rays will womp the Phillies HARD! LETS GO RAYS !!!!!
With Floyd, Bradford and Kazmir on the Rays, and their “worst-to-first” comeback this season, the Rays are the next best thing to the Mets.
OK, that was a stretch.
and Dan Wheeler.
YOU GO !! I was saying the same thing to my wife while watching the game. This is as close to watching the METS as we can get without watching the METS :} LETS GO RAYS !!!!!!!!
wow i guess philly envys us a great deal
first victorino does his best reyes impression on the field and now they take our phrase……talk about flatering…
Ha ha, that’s ridiculous. This rivalry is getting better and better. 2009 is going to be great.
What rivalry?
All I’ve seen so far is the Phils owning this “rivalry”
It’s the rivalry of the hammer and the nail…..guess which the Mets are
didnt we have a better reg season record vs the phills….
We beat them in the season series, Furioso’s insanity gets funnier by the day.
So?
Do we get a banner to raise because of that or something?
Yeah who cares if we beat them head to head.. we dropped the most important series to them, and they for sure won the war.
don’t use the hammer and nail reference when we won the season series. Go away troll boy and stay away.
look guys as far as the rivalry mets vs phills..we won that rivalry based off season record. We didnt play philly 162 games…we are not in the playoffs because we did not perform well against the other clubs not really because of the phillys doing
I don’t know what planet you live on, or what philly fans your friends with.. but after 2 straght divsion titles?
The mets haven’t won a thing vs the phils.
lol i live on planet earth
i have no philly friends
you are mixing up two different things and no listening to what me and others are saying EWM. The mets vs philly rivalry has us winning that fight in 08. Now as far as accomplishments than yes philly has claimed 2 nl east championships back to back. I guess its how you view it. I will repeat, we beat philly head to head this year but we didnt play very well against the other teams in the league while philly did and thats why they are where they are.
And the phils killed us last year so what?
The point is to win… that’s where bragging rights come from.. that’s all that matters..the phils got better as the season went along… beat us in two huge games (johan 8 innings, and the 7 run lead we blew)
I’d rather go 0-16 agains the phils in the reg season, and win the world series.
And I have to believe that holds true for 99.9% of mets fans…
“And the phils killed us last year so what?”
-the phillies had a better record against us last year but the nail in the coffin was florida so really the marlins killed us by beating us on the last day of the season where philly snuck right in. We were free falling for a while in september and philly capitolized but your right philly had a better record against us last year.
“The point is to win… that’s where bragging rights come from.. that’s all that matters..the phils got better as the season went along… beat us in two huge games (johan 8 innings, and the 7 run lead we blew)”
-Absolutly..the point IS to win and we did exactly that AGAINST THE PHILLIES THIS YEAR. I dont know why your having such a hard time understanding that. If you want to talk just about rivalry vs philly then we have a winning record against them for the season….
“I’d rather go 0-16 agains the phils in the reg season, and win the world series”
-then the arguement can be made that philly was better than the mets whatever that year would have been and thus they won the head to head rivalry. In that reality we would have had to play awsome against all the other teams in the mlb and yes your right everyone would enjoy that very much.
bottom line EWM i still stand by the fact that
1)we have a wining record against philly so that imo satisfied my head to head rivaliry bit
2) we didnt make the post season not because of our winning record against the phillies but rather how we played against other teams all year. We didnt play well…the phillies did.
We didn’t beat the phils from July 5th on in 2007, and you think the Marlins were the reason we lost the division?
Wow.. and I mean wow.
i say wow to your understanding of my post. I already acknowledged the phillies had a better record than the mets. Fact is the marlins beat us on the last day of the season so yea the marlins were the reason we lost the division. Philly won on the last day and took over first..no time for the mets to fight back. I also noted that the mets have been free falling in september so again ewm….this boils down to your definition of a “rivalry” compaired to mine. I see a “rivalry” as our season long series against a team. You obviously see it as an overall acomplishment for what they did all year. The problem with looking at it that way is what if the mets and philly didnt make it to the post season…..you would have no way to tell who won in your definition of a “rivalry” because they both didnt go anywhere so you would have to resort to who won in the season long series which is my definition of a rivalry…..go ahead and sarcastilly dispute my point or just misinterpret it.
11-7 against the Phillies says otherwise.
Where do you think the Phillies would have been this year if they lost Burrell for most of the season and Lidge from July onwards? Third place at least.
The Mets played most of this season with one hand tied behind their back.
STFU
We’re home, they’re in the WS
right but not because they “owned” us furioso.
Wait, I’m confused. Is Furioso a Philly fan or not?
closet philly fan
I’m not sure he even watches baseball.
Jeez, the rah rah guys on this blog are disgraceful. It should sicken all Met fans that the Phillies *the Phillies* are in the W.S. and we are stuck with a mouthbreather for a GM and gutless players who will most likely all be back next year. I never thought I’d see the day where fellow NY fans are satisfied with mediocrity.
The only thing “fellow NY fans” about you is that you are likely a Yankee fan.
hey fiya i want you to find someone that is not sickened by philly in the WS….ill give you a minute
bottom line there are fans that are mad at the world the mets didnt come thru and there are others who realistically understand why we didnt go all the way. Has not thing to do with being “satisfied with mediocrity”..in fact we have spent thread after thread of ways to IMPROVE our team via trades and outlining our weaknesses….so again nobody is happy that we are not playing in october and even less happy that philly made it to the WS…im pretty sure on that…with that being said…GO RAYS!!
Well spoken Dirty, great post!
I guess 2006 didn’t count? We actually dealt the first blow in this “rivalry.” Try to pay attention.
Furioso = Crazy Head
Don’t ever go changing on us, cowboy! You’re hysterical!
this is like the yankee – redsox rivalry. it’s not a rivalry until the mets can beat the phillies once. otherwise it’s the phillies and the wannabees.
Why are the Phillies so bad at being a baseball club? Their stadium is tiny, the fans stupid, and their rally cry stolen. We better win the division next year…
or else what…the philly fans will become smarter, their stadium will get bigger and they will get their own rally cry….not a big chance of that happening lol division or not
The Phillies are lucky that we have incompetents in the front office.
Ahh Furioso’s twin
more than likely the same person with 2 screen names.
i know, but its more fun to call him the twin
Agreed! Crazy twin trolls
Are you denying that the front office is incompetent? Are you happy with the performance of the team given their $140 million payroll? Are you satisfied will all of the worthless contracts given out the past four years? Are you STILL drinking the kool-aid?
For the record, I am not furioso. There are many fans who are not happy with this team and the direction it’s taken.
And many trolls who love to rub it in. Which is exactly what you and him are.
How does it make someone a troll if they’re un happy?
Jeez get off your high freakin horse.
I was a Mets fan when you were a glimmer in your Dad’s eye. Your loser mentality is exactly what the fan base does not need.
Doubtful troll. I saw my first game at Shea in 1964.
Oh no the high and mighty I am older then you therefore I must be a real fan argument.
Am I satisfied with ALL of the contracts? Of course not…it’s pretty hard to make everyone happy all the time. Contracts I am pretty happy with…lets see:
Picking up Pedro brought instant credibility, and while he’s through it brought other big names that made us relevant again.
That nicely brings me to Beltran. Yeah, I’m pretty happy with having the best CF in the NL starting next year.
Wright and Reyes were home grown, but I’m still happy we locked them up for a few more years at least.
Johan Santana.
You get the idea. Are there stinkers? Sure. (See Castillo, Alou, etc.) When you take everything together, I’ll take where we are now instead of where we were in 2004
i love this defense of the pedro contract, like a team in NY needs credibility.
pedro was at best one of the three worst free agent contracts signed in the history of the mets franchise.
Any team regardless of market needs credibility after it’s been in the can for a number of years. I still prefer NY Mets 2006-2008 to NY Mets 2002-2004…
At least they aren’t playing Sweet Caroline . ..
LMAO
you gotta believe the phails will get smashed by the Rays.
+1
when the mets make the playoffs…they’ll earn the right to complain.
go rays.
Actually Regis, Tug McGraw was a philly news sports correspondent on the local ABC affiliate, Channel 6, in the ’80’s and each week he did a piece during the broadcast itled “YaGotta Believe”. I don’t know if you can blame us for using the phrase that he introduced us to, just saying….
Fair point, but it started when Tug was on the ‘73 Mets and has since become a mantra for Mets fans everywhere. That’s 35 years of it being our unofficial slogan game in and game out. The 2008 playoffs are the first I’ve heard of Phillies fans using it as theirs.
I believe you – I actually never knew it was a mets phrase – it’s been used here for years for many sports, not just baseball. And other local sports guys have used it for years, maybe as a Tug tribute. No disrespect – I think alot of fans (younger fans like myself) probably never knew it originated with the mets.
i obviously have not followed philly baseball…have they ever endorsed that slogan before this year….i know the mets have been using that for a while but i dont recall the phillies every using it before now…is that right?
I understand your point but then again if the mets have been using that slogan for years and philly used it for the first time this year…..
I’m calling BS. I’ve lived in Philly for years (unfortunately) and I’ve never heard this phrase used at all. It is a Mets phrase. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is some front office idea to anger Met fans, increase the rivalry, and put more butts in the seats next year.
I think it worked because I’m pissed.
Lets Go Rays!
I have lived in the philly area all my life, and I saw a banner with the slogan on it for the first time in philly last year at the phillies’ City Hall celebration for winning the NL East…it is the Mets’ slogan, but I wouldn’t expect philly baseball fans to know that because they have only taken an interest in the team in the last 4 years
You know, we’ve had this conversation before. A year ago. On these boards. Metsblog has already talked about this “ya gotta believe” thing… and I do believe there were some philly reps duking it out with us about where it originated and who has the right to use it.
So if the question is “have they used this phrase before 2008?” The answer is yes.
I’m a Phillies fan. This phrase has definitely been used in Philly for quite some time. Since the Phils haven’t been in the playoffs a whole lot, I can see why you haven’t heard us use it. I’m not old enough to remember Tug using the phrase in ‘80, but it’s definitely been part of the Philies culture in the last 25 years.
I can’t believe we are getting all torn up over another post about what Philly is doing. Why do we care? They need a rivalry to legitimize their run. They are trying to make one. To me there isn’t one. Let them have their fun, you know they will only be decent for so long before the wheels fall off.
if only the mets could be decent for so long before the wheels fall off.
This is a real reach by Price, trying to make up a story over nothing at all. The only example he shows is one sign that some fans made up that says “ya gotta believe” to try to make this a story but this is waaay over blown. It is not some official rallying cry and you will not see it on more than one or two signs. Everyone knows it was Tug that coined this back in ‘73 for the Mets. But he also said the same thing with the Phillies in ‘80. So I think this is more like a few Philly fans paying tribute to Tug, who closed out the only championship for them. I think you are more likely to see signs that say “80=08″
Overblow. Reach. Non-story.
Exactly, the NY fans are out of it so they are doing something to try and pull them back in.
Maybe he works for FOX. You know he stands to move up if so as the top guys are all killing themselves when they found out it was going to be Rays Phillies in the WS.
GO (away) METS!
Matt
Please post the “season series vs Phils champions” flag that everyone thinks trumps the NL Champions flag?
Matt, please require a certain level of intelligence before posting on this site.
lol if that were the case we would have ALOT fewer posters than we have now
Could we make it like the gmail drunk emailing filter?
Furioso…
noone is saying it trumps the NL Champions flag but when you argue that the Phillies OWNED The mets….then yes, you can use the season series flag. If you are going to argue that the philly have had a better couple years..then no $hit noone will argue that….
so…see..logic wins..you lose
Logic:
7 game lead w/ 17 to play
3.5 lead w/ 17 left to play
Who finished 1st both time?
Looks like ownage to me.
Logic:
3.5 game lead w/ 17 left to play.
Games played vs. Phillies: 0
7 game lead w/ 17 left to play.
Games played vs. Phillies: 3
So of the 34 games that were played, 3 out of 34, or roughly 9%, were against the Phillies. The Phillies had very little to do with the “ownage”.
It’s hysterical how hard you’re arguing to defend this team that has choked MULTIPLE times.
You’re so desperate to salvage anything, all you can do is sit there and thump your chest and be proud that the Mets beat the Phils in the season series by a few games.
WOW.
Well, if god forbid the Phils win the WS, I don’t think you should be expecting Timmy and Buck to add “….but they lost the season series to the Mets” as the Phils celebrate.
But hey, you homers have to have something to feel good about I guess.
Maybe the Mets will hang a flag on the wall to signify that mannoth accomplishment.
Lol at you calling anyone a homer. I didn’t beat my chest, I didn’t claim the Mets won anything over the Phillies. It’s just plain STUPIDITY to claim that the Phillies owned the Mets based on the 34 games at the end of the last two seasons. YOU brought it up as an example of ownage…The Phillies won and the Mets lost, but you can’t claim the Phillie’s owned the Mets WHEN THEY PLAYED EACH OTHER 3 TIMES.
The Phillies owned the teams they actually played, and the Mets got owned by the teams they played…
As pointed out above, Tug’s phrase has been used in Philly since Tug was traded to Philadelphia back in the mid 70s.
Was this a big deal back in the mid 70s when it was Tug himself using it in PA? I’m not old enough to remember.
Much like the Mets’ fans stood and applauded Santana’s 1500th strikeout this year as if they’ve been rooting for him since the start of his career, you sort of get the whole package when a team trades a player from their team to yours.
Quite possibly the worst analogy I’ve ever heard.
A good majority of Phils fans really don’t use this slogan, and the ones that do use it as a tribute to Tug, which both our teams can agree was truly a great and loved man. When the phrase is used, it brings a smile to everyone’s face.
Tug used it a lot during his time in Philly, so it really has stuck onto the culture in this town.
There have been a few including the ones photographed at Dodgers Stadium. The Phils board I post on really rarely uses it.
I totally understand the frustration, but it is sort of arbitrary.
The unofficial rallying cry that Phils fans have been running with this postseason has been “Why can’t us?”
The lack of correct grammar doesn’t surprise me.
With all due respect, “Ya gotta believe” isn’t exactly correct grammar either.
Wait wait..
WHY CAN’T US??
Ya gotta believe is fine…it just takes you and makes it Ya…
why can’t us is completely incorrect and just dumb
Well…. that’s a stretch. It would actually read “You got to believe” which isn’t very good grammer. But it sounds great! Grammatically correct should be “You have to believe.”
“gotta” isn’t a word either.
at least you can understand it! Why can’t us makes no sense man..
It doesn’t make sense to you because you don’t want it to and naturally you’re not a Phils fan.
So you have programmed already into your psyche that you don’t like it and won’t make sense to you.
The fact is that both are bad grammar. You shouldn’t have a double standard by arguing that one phrase is dumb because of its bad grammar yet the other is ok, despite its bad grammar.
ok…if i had the time or cared enough to run a poll..i’m sure random people in the middle of nowhere would find both dont make sense, but why can’t us..makes less
why are you trolling on another teams board anyway?
I read a lot of baseball blogs, not just for my own team. I saw a post that was about the Phillies, so I checked it out.
I do post here from time to time. I was invited by many Mets fans who are posters here and have been welcomed and told “come back and post anytime.”
I’m not trying to be a “troll” or like those other annoying fans who come here to talk smack. I was simply offering clarification, that is all.
fair enough…
I guess its better than the typical things phillies fans post…. odd that us Mets fans will converse with you guys, but hell, i’ve seen some fans try to converse on beerleaguer and they don’t know how to have a conversation with someone other than a philly fan..pretty sad indeed
I read Beerleaguer, but don’t post at it. That seems to be the hot spot for the good, the bad, and the ugly all mixed into one.
The only Phils blog I post at is PhilliesNation.
The problem with being able to post anonymously on the internet gives people a sick pleasure in being an overall, well, brat. They can do it, get away with it, and get a rise out of people.
The reason I posted here was the number of times I’ve seen annoying Phils fans come here to talk smack (which I don’t condone). I posted to offer a counterbalance and to show that there really is a silent majority of Phils fans who are very level headed, even keeled, and overall good people.
Just like any fans, there are good and bads ones. In our case, the bad ones in the very vocal minority get the attention.
One last point before I go.
There are some really awesome Mets fans who come and post at PhilliesNation and we welcome them (the ones that come to talk baseball at least).
There are trolls that come there too, but there are a couple good Mets fans that I’ve had very pleasant conversations with over there.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Hey Mr Dude, love the name…I bet if I asked my phillies fan friends who the dude was they wouldn’t even know, so you must be one of the true phils fans…doesn’t it piss you off to see all these jerk phillies fans give you a bad name? I live in philly and about 75% of my friends are bandwagon fans, and the other 25% hate the bandwagonning
From Deadspin.com “On the XM RadioBaseball This Morning: Playoff Edition today, a caller from Delaware chimed in to share his joy for the Fightins. He may have just created the next great new catch phrase, saying, “Boston did it. The White Sox did it. Why can’t us? Why can’t us.” 2008 Philadelphia Phillies: WHY CAN’T US!”
The fact that he said it so many times makes it all the more hilariously bad.
why can’t us? because you guys don’t deserve a world series champ, the only good fans in philly are flyers fans
LMAO…the only good fans in philly are cheering for teams that aren’t from philly
I’ve been thinking in the perfect world how do we want the Phillies season to end?
Get swept in 4 games? Lose a heartbreaker in game 7? Blow a huge lead to lose the series? Have Lidge choke in a big spot?
Anything that gives them a hangover into 2009 is fine with me.
The ironic thing is that phrase came from a team that ultimately lost. May it bring the Phillies the same luck…
The 2009 Mets: FIRE MILLEN
I couldn’t care less about this … go phillies… make the nl east proud … you deserve it … their fans deserve it to … unlike rays fans who are bandwaggon hoppers at best, transplant new yorkers who jumped ship from the yankees this year.
ah…the true feelings come out….
Rooting for the Rays myself. They’re the Cinderella team.
The Phills fans deserve it???? Yeah, the only fans I know who cheer when an opposing player goes down hurt on the field and boos if they manage to get up and continue.
They deserve to get beat, which I sincerely hope they do.
seriously..i already had an argument with a Marlins fan about this (yea..some do exist!) . Even without it being the Phils, i’d probably be rooting for the Rays, the exception being if Chicago had made it
The Phillies deserve it but I am not sure ANY fan base ever deserves anything.
Well, I don’t know about that. I too, would have been rooting for the Cubs, had they made it in. If ever a fan base deserved to finally see another WS win, it’s them. They pack that Wrigley field year after year with their support, no matter if that team is good, bad or ugly…
Point taken. But I think they also, EXPECTED a WS this year. No team can EXPECT a WS.
Phils have had the luckiest of bounces this post-season. They avoided playing the Cubs, the BoSox and Angels in this post-season.
Sickening really that they are probably going to be world champions.
Fair play to the Phils and all for playing some good ball at the end of the season.
well you can possibly make an argument that they had the better situations but they still had to win…and they did. It is sickening but if they win the WS i would like to think it will be a hard fought victory as the rays will give them problems. They had the better bullpen all year and that played a major role in their post season campaign
All 3 teams the Phils played/will play this postseason had a better record than the 2006 Cardinals. So lucky with opponents doesn’t always pay off.
Yes….”luck”
Of course.
You gotta be thieves!
How about…
You gotta bereave??
Seems right for this year….
I agree with all of the above. Don’t we (Mets) have some type of copy write on that phrase? Can someone check would be great if the Mets legally sue the Philadelphia Land Phils for a copy write violation?
Since Tug McGraw’s foundation uses “Ya Gotta Believe” it’d be bad PR for the Mets to try to steal it from them.
This blog needs to stop posting stuff about the Phillies. This is Metsblog, not Phillies blog. I hate stupid Mets fan who are obsessed with the Phillies! Shut up about it and let the mets win or lose or whatever! The mets aren’t in the playoffs, theres always next year so who cares.
And remember your baseball history
“All through baseball history, Philadelphia has had to take a back seat to New York City. Well, New York can take this world championship and stick it ‘cause we’re number one.” – Tug McGraw after the Phillies won the World Series in 1980
Seriously Tug was a Phillies punk. And, his whole rah, rah phrase was from a season where the Mets LOST the World Series. I have never understood Mets fans who have good feelings for Tug or for that 73 team.
There’s footage of McGraw saying Ya Gotta Believe in a Phils uniform on The Baseball Bunch on youtube…
WHO CARES? Seriously…..
As Mets fans, we should be more concerned about the dunderhead posing as our team’s GM, than some slogan that is terribly outdated.
I’m tired of believing, anyway. I want to KNOW whether our illustrious GM is going to do about this team.
He is going to sign every available free agent so that next year’s payroll will be over $500 million. But with the economy continuing to stumble and the decrease in the value of US currency, it really only costs the Mets $18 million. Pure Genious!
10226 days, 15 hours, 59 minutes and fourty eight seconds since the phillies won the world series! haha
Burn Philly down ???
You better look out your window for a 747!
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/1005954/
Shouldn’t our saying be It ain’t over till it’s over by Yogi Berra, or will Yankee fans claim thats theirs also?
Burn_Philly_Down: Stop obsessing about the Phillies! Worry about the Mets!
I love how we spend more than 100 comments talking about how the Phils are obsessed with the Mets.
Um… pot… kettle?
For those who remember, Tug was being sarcastic and in his usual sour, antisocial, dark humored mood,
it was only the papers that made it a rally cry!
Read your history or it will repreat itself!
I think Pat Riley tried to trademark “Threepeat”. Did that work for him?
Every single Muts Blog filled with Phillies envy! Oh how it must hurt you poor Muts fans. I love your obsession over the Phils but enough is enough!
Stop talking about us! Talk about your own pathetic choke expansion team and how you happy you are to watch the Phils in the playoffs again ..
Phillies envy/Penis envy .. get over it
GO PHILS !
Can’t wait to see the Phils square off against Scott Kazmir, Cliff Floyd and Chad Bradford in the World Series….
Has Beltran finished renewing his vows yet? How’s that Arizona Fall League shaping up for you Mutts fans?
Choke much, Mutts fans??
LETS GO PHILS!!!!!!!
Oh I’m hurt…Why don’t you Philatio fans frolic with the other incmopetent slackers in Philly. This also explains why our economy is in the rutts!