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Jeff Wilpon was a guest this afternoon on WFAN, during which he had the following to say when asked about what his team’s fans can expect in the off-season:
“I think we’re going to be active in trying to remake our roster. I think I said it at the time, I want it to be some addition by subtraction, whether that happens more by free agency or through some trades.”
…so, in order to improve, he feels that the Mets must cut ties with specific players, and i totally agree…the thing is, to have an impact, this would suggest some combo of Luis Castillo, Carlos Delgado, Pedro Martinez, Oliver Perez, maybe Aaron Heilman, etc., but how much of an impact is that…i can’t imagine he is talking about a player like Carlos Beltran…so, who…who can be removed from the roster, which would help this club take a step forward…
To listen to Wilpon’s entire 12–minute interview, click here.
Agree with Castillo, Hielman, Delgado, and Pedro. How is getting rid of Perez considered addition by subtraction, though?
well i guess the argument you can give is one less headache with out ollie = one more consistant pitcher (lowe, c.c etc)
i DONT KNOW IF TRADING BELTRAN IS THE ANSWER? WHAT CAN YOU POSSIBLY GET FOR HIM THAT EQUALS HIS VALUE OR GREATER, BELTRAN WAS NOT THE METS PROBLEM THIS YEAR. IT WAS THE BULLPEN OBVIOUSLY. TRADING CASTILLO AWAY I AGREE WITH, JUST NOIT BELTRAN. GO AFTER SOME RELIABLE BULLPEN GUYS AND CAN CLOSE DOWN INNINGS AND GAMES.
los mets
I don’t care as long as they los win.
maybe he does mean Beltran…who cares if Beltran goes as long as we win
Sure. But who are you getting back for him who improves the team enough to get over losing the best center fielder in the league? (And he has a full no-trade; he ain’t going anywhere he doesn’t want to go. All indications are that he doesn’t like being traded, as the no-trade was a dealbreaker back when he was a free agent.)
I cant say I would be dissapointed if we got back 3 solid players for Beltran…we dont need the best CF in baseball to win…maybe we can get some pen peices, lower salary, and improve our farm
I think lots of fans would care….his offensive and defensive production, and incredible consistency at a very high level the last three years would be next to impossible to replace…
Great. Three solid players. Who?
yo la tengo?
It’s very difficult to find a good CF. Beltran is not the reason we are “losing.” I say keep Carlos B. There are many other pieces to this puzzle that are more responsible for where we are today than him. I think Delgado is the one who must go, notwithstanding his numbers this year. Let “his numbers” get us something decent from the AL. Don’t get me wrong, I was amazed at his production the second half of the season (sans the last week) and I rode on that bandwagon like everyone else here. But he dogged it for Willie when we needed him because he hated him – and I believe he dragged Jose and Beltran down a little too. So, for me, Carlos must go in order to begin to change the atmosphere here.
I obviously agree with trading or letting go of Castillo, Pedro and El Duque.
As for Perez, if we can get him for no more that 4 years/$50 million, then ok. I wouldn’t pay him $60 Mill./4 years. He’s proven to be too inconsistent to warrant that kind of money. Maybe he’ll get that consistency with somebody else. I’d rather go in another direction.
totally agree with u slider – i just hate to lose delgado especially if he puts up anywhere near the numbers he did this past season
Everyone says this but idk if they mean if it’s a bad thing or good thing
Why is everyone so quick to get rid of Delgado? He was 2nd in the NL in homers, and did that in essentially two-thirds of the season. Could he regress? sure, but he found his stroke, a stroke which led to a borderline HOF career. His salary is reasonable and there aren’t many alternatives out there (Texeira is great but expensive. After that, they’re all worse than Delgado).
We cant get the production Delgado will provide us but lets not forget he doesnt hit for a high BA…maybe we can get a younger cheaper faster better defensive 1b that can hit maybe .290 instead of .265
Like Daniel Murphy?
Don’t you find it odd how he turned back into a feared slugger almost overnight? This after a year and a half of absolute awfulness.
a) he’s on some kind of juice
b) he turned it on in the last year of his contract
c) he laid down for Willie
d) he really was in a bad slump for that 1 1/2 years he looked washed up
Of the four I’d pick “d” last.
i think people feel sell while his value is still high like we coulda done with lastings 2 years ago u know try to get a good reliever and maybe a prospect or 2 before carlos goes to pot
It’s one of those things that sounds good in theory, but what team that’s looking to sell off their bullpen has any interest in a 37 year old designated hitter who earns twelve million dollars, has averaged at OPS only a little over .800 over the past two years and has a very real chance of turning into a .200 hitting sack of bad?
There are lots teams that have room for Carlos on the field and in the budget, and we’re all fans of one. He’s a perfectly good option at first for another year. But no team that’s playing to win now and trading for veterans is going to use their bullpen as their trading chip. And even if they were, if you have twelve million dollars to play with, you can find a perfectly good, .820 OPS 1B/DH without having to give up a good relief arm.
Seriously, the Yankees.
Only $12mil for one year of Delgado with Posada lined up to play 1b in 2010-11 makes a lot of sense.
Delgado for Nady and Marte. They can put Damon back in LF, and we can sign Teixeira instead of a LFer. Delgado in that ballpark (same dimensions) will be a force.
The Yankee’s like Nady and may not even pick up Marte’s option. That trade is not happening. Now if you wanted Damon or Matsui then you might be on to something. I guess we could do worse than Damon in LF and netting a bullpen guy or prospect to go with him for Delgado.
Allow me to cut everyone off at the pa ss: trading Beltran, Reyes and Wright is subtraction by subtraction, UNLESS you’re getting back equal or better talent.
So if you’re going to scream and shout and post that one of those three have to go, PLEASE, I’m BEGGING you, put in the post WHAT PLAYER you think we’re getting back for them that means the Mets would be better off.
is it me or was jeff not so disapointed by the way he sounded – he even said that win or lose the experience at citi feild would be first rate – i don’t mean to be a cynic but ithink he was thinking more about the bottom line financially than winning btw the wife and i laughed when jeff said $iti feild would be available for bar mitvahs
Jeff Wilpon is our version of Hank Steinbrenner. He’s not as bombastic, but equally as stupid.
His father should be doing all the talking for the family.
At least Hank has an intelligent brother, supposedly, who can keep him from ruining the franchise. What’s going to happen to us?
well jeff does look like alfred e newman
gina something tells me once fred goes to that real estate agency in the sky jeff will sell to the highest bidder ( hopefully an doubleday or a payson)
Maybe we should start doing fund raisers.
Thank You racemccloud!!!
guys i asked this last night so id like your opinions mlb trade rumors reported that the cards were not picking up mark mulders option hence making him a free agent would you consider signing him to a minor leauge contract with an invite to s.t and if he makes the team give him reachable incentives??
He’s going to look for an actual contract first. If he doesn’t get one, I’m sure that the Mets and a lot of teams would be interested in something like that.
Please. No. How many years are we going to do that and continue to be disappointed. I’d rather give Jon Niese or Bobby Parnell. Mulders arm is hanging by a thread, isn’t it?
Look at the Rays. I want power arms on our pitching staff – unless we’re talking about a Brandon Webb type of pitcher.
We’re not talking about a three year deal; it’s a minor league contract. For an organization like the Mets that’s like saying “no money”. Mulder’s been too good in the past not to get some sort of something from some organization next spring.
hell in retrospect don’t u wish we did that with garcia or bartolo colon?? well maybe not colon but you get the gist – if we had garcia that coulda put us over the top whether he was in the starting rotation or the bullpen
Race, race, race. If we have to rely on a Mark Mulder in 2009, then Omar did not do his job this off-season. Do you also want to sign El Duque and Moises to minor league contracts too?
And “rustyjr,” Freddie Garcia or Bartolo Colon???? LMAO! What exactly did Garcia do for the Tigers that would have propelled our heartless club into the playoffs? (You already conceded on Colon without a challenge.)
Hey, thanks for being condescending, I appreciate that. <— sarcasm.
Mulder will have a job with somebody next year. If it costs the Mets no money, I don’t see the harm.
I’m sorry for the “race, race, race” part. You’re right. But the rest of my comment was not condescending. And I do equate signing Mulder to re-signing a Moises or an El Duque minor league contract.
In all seriousness, if this is where we are at, I’d rather just re-sign Pedro as opposed to Mulder, notwithstanding that he’d be more money. I’d rather have Niese or Parnell in the rotation before Mulder.
Maybe Garcia could help. Maybe. But, again, wouldn’t you rather give Niese or Parnell, or both, a shot before going with a Mulder or Garcia?
hey glider i’m sorry if my suggestion’s did’t coincide with your opinions but hey i do think garcia pitched well for the tigers (or i might be wrong) all i was saying it might be worth exploring – and no i don’t want to resign el duque and moises i want to resign david cone and steve henderson :P
just read what u posted glider it did come across as condecending but hey thats the prob with posting you cant read inflections – all i was saying is who knows it mightve been different if we trotted garcia out of the pen instead of heilman – but we will never know now right lol
Pat Zachary? My buddy who was at Mets fantasy camp said he didn’t throw one pitch above the knee cap.
I apologize if it came across as coming down too hard on you two, Certainly, my opinion don’t mean shyat either. We’re all just talking.
no harm no foul man i;m from brooklyn i can tell u some funny maz and pete falcone stories lol
Look, if all they did was Mulder, then we’d have a problem. But if they fix what needs to be fixed, and then invited Mulder to spring training… what’s the harm?
That having been said… I’d rather put Niese in the rotation, Parnell in the bullpen. Nobody’s counting on Mulder to do anything, but if he were to end up as a nice surprise, then hey, no harm, no foul.
I dont think that will work, i dont know if a wait and see can will help the mets. they want to win now. i’d prefer a guy like lowe.
btw guys mlb trade rumors also said that the heyman article about lowe not wanting to go to n.y is bull poopie
Heyman is usually very reliable.
sorry it was in mets fever here is the post
It was just last week that Ken Rosenthal believed Derek Lowe would stay on the west coast. However, Lowe clarified himself directly to Rosenthal saying that he would like to return to the east coast. It’s further reported that Lowe would prefer Boston but if their not interested it’s just down 95 to Flushing……
In a recent item, I started that the Yankees shouldn’t be confident of landing right-hander Derek Lowe in free agency, saying that some rival clubs believe that Lowe wants to stay on the west coast. Lowe told me that my information was wrong, that he actually wanted to go east. He backed up that remark by telling the Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo that the Red Sox were his first choice. source Fox Sports
Right. Lowe’s agent told him that he was leaving millions on the table by not telling the press that he was willing to come back to the east coast. It compromises his bargaining position with the west coast teams to do so. So . . . .
hey i’m just telling you what i read u know kinda like a-rod wants to play for the mets thing from 00 lol
Right. All BS.
It’s all about the $$$. I think we would have to overwhelm Lowe to come here. Not I’m against that. I’d rather give the money to him than Ollie at this point. I was rooting for OP, but he scares me. I think Lowe is inconsistent.
well thats what happened with vince coleman eddie murray bobby bo ricky henderson etc
i think ollie is more inconsistant than lowe though i love ollie don’t get me wrong but that game against the pirates back in july damn i was pulling my hair out – its like he didn’t care
also about the interview maybe i’m just cynical but did jeff really sound commited to keeping the payroll where it was like at opening day 08 or larger – or smaller i don’t know if omar has free reign over spending anymore (shudder)
anymore? jeff wilpon has been pulling minayas strings from day 1. he got a 4 year extension after two miserable collapses because he’s such a great front man for the way the wilpons have always operated.
Would anyone trade Beltran and Heilman for David DeJesus, Joakim Soria and Gil Meche? Back to K.C. for Carlos. Would he mind that? Do we even know if he enjoys New York?
Why would KC do that? Why would they even consider it?
Why wouldn’t they? Maybe they wan to get rid of Meche’s $11.5 million dollar a year contract? To get back Beltran who started his career there? To maybe give their fans a real star? I don’t know. That’s why I threw it out there
So they’re going to give up 2 young very good players under control cheaply for a while so they can swap an 11 million contract for an 18 million contract+ an arbitration eligible relief pitcher? Just because Beltran started his career there.
That makes perfect
Gina, I’m afraid we’re in for a long winter of explaining to people why the Royals aren’t going to give us Soria just because we’d like to have him.
Is that you Omar? Sorry you don’t agree. Wasn’t aware you had all the answers. By the way, I was responding to the post above that said include names coming back if we were to trade one of the core guys. Those are the types of names the Mets would need back if they were to trade one of their core guys.
And you think the Royals of all teams would give the Mets all of those players?
KC is a smallish market and they are rebuilding. They are not going to give up 18 or so cost controlled years from 3 players for one market-value year of Carlos Beltran.
I would be open to trading Beltran, but would be extremely careful about it. Look at what happened to the Twins with Johan. They traded the best pitcher in baseball and got 4 scrubs in return. It’s very difficult to get equal value for one of the top players in baseball even if you get 3 top prospects in return.
If we trade Beltran, it has to be a Miggy Cabrera type trade, where you are overwhelmed by a package.
stemog first off beltran has a full tno trade clause – me thinks carlos would veto going back to k.c secondly the royals owner said he wants to be competative and signed soria to a contract – he ain;t goin anywhere trust me
Anyone think the Royals might be tempted to do Soria if they could get rid of Guillen at the same time without taking a bad contract back?
First of all, I wouldn’t. Second, the Royals wouldn’t. Third, the Mets wouldn’t. Finally, and the only thing that matters… Beltran wouldn’t. Full. No. Trade.
That trade hurts the Royals more than it helps them. They lose their best starter, their stud closer (who was just resigned to a very reaonable deal and is under team control for the next few years) and a very good outfielder, and they get an expensive Carlos Beltran and garbage Aaron Heilman.
I personally think that Wilpon’s “addition by subtraction” theory means he wants to get rid of some of the players who haven’t performed (Heilman, Castillo, Schowenweis) and that the team would just be better by the mere fact that they are gone. I mean, if you can get rid of Heilman/Scho, at least you have to bring in new bullpen guys rather than keep trotting out the same losers every year.
I also think the last thing he wants is the constant booing of these guys in new CitiField.
Good points.
ill buy castillio the greyhoound ticket to the mexico city sun devils if i have too :P
Addition by subtraction? Yeah, lets get a new owner. THAT does the trick ;O)
I also think the last thing he wants is the constant booing of these guys in new CitiField
Too bad. Twin chokes will do that for ya
furioso is it true that if you didn’t have a hard-on you wouldn’t have a freind ?
lol
You guys should get off furioso’s back. He serves a very useful purpose here and, point in fact, his position in not unreasonable.
The Wilpons are not shrewd baseball owners. At the very least, Jeff is a dope. Getting Santana was a good move, but they let too many other positions on the field vulnerable this year. Their handling of Willie, Church, LF, 2B and the bullpen was abysmal. Luis Aguayo as a 3B coach was shear stupidity. So, what next?
could it be because omar can’t reach them from friday night until sat sundown lol – hell i was born jewish i can get away with saying that lol
i apologize if i offended anyone seriously furi sometimes makes valid points but like feye mets man-agement b4 him he gets annoying after awhile because he is trying to get our goats
I’m not sure if bringing people’s religion into the subject of baseball is appropriate.
i did apologize gland like i said i was born of the jewish faith and after i posted that i felt very bad if i could take the post back i would
Don’t worry about it Rusty, everyone makes mistakes, and at least you made just one and immediately apologized for it.
And Metsblog needs more posters who appreciate the Blues Brothers as much as we do…..
thanks kong and blue lou marini salutes you !!!
Oh, good, Furioso is here. I was worried some optimism might leak into the world. Thankfully, that’s taken care of.
by the way guys murh and the magic tines went 3 for 5 with 2 rbi’s he’s battin .417
* tones
Donald Duck Dunn went 2-for-3, but had no hits with RISP and two outs….CUT HIM!!
we do need to add some clutchness to this team though. beltran and delgado and last year wright were not very good in that department.
True, but I hope you are not one of those folks who are not aware that Wright hit over .300 his entire career until 2008 in every “clutch” category and well over .300 in some of those spots. He had an off-year in clutch spots, as did Beltran.
While his demands may turn out to be ridiculous, that is why I have thought that if Manny can be had for something like 3 yrs/65 mil with maybe 2 option years, he would be the piece we need. He makes everyone better and takes tremendous pressure off of everyone, and is the king of clutch and leading his teams to the postseason.
And as for the Manny-as-cancer folks, he has been a key part of the best Indians and Red Sox teams in the last 50-plus years, and look at what Ortiz did without Manny in the lineup this postseason. Not to mention what Manny did.
OK, Morechocolate—I see now that you said “Wright last year” so I am sorry to suggest you are unaware of Wright’s excellence in the clutch before this year….but Beltran has had some pretty clutch moments, regular and postseason, of course other than a certain at bat against the Cards in 2006….
beltran is what he is— very streaky……in regular hitting, and clutch hitting……
yes, wright is actually very clutch, and he is a monster in september……his year this year was probably the result of the added pressure off the collapse, and a change in his swing which is somewhat alarming (uppercut, pulling off, not going to RF).
manny is the emperor of clutch…..period. it is a real statistic. “grit” is a bs thing, but clutch is for real.
how about this trade?
beltran,heilman and niese for papelbon and elsbury and a mid-level prospect?
LMAOROFL. You’re joking right?
No way Boston even considers that.
See I think the opposite. I think Boston would consider it but we wouldn’t be getting enough back, unless we plan on moving Papelbon into the rotation.
ok, maybe I am asking too much, but elsbury is not a star, he is avg at best.
if we are trading beltran which I dont want, we better get a proven superstar back(papelbon)
thank goodness you retracted that statement dominican i was thinking that weed on capmus in buffalo was warping your better judgement lol :P
wow
lololol this is NEVER EVER GOING TO HAPPEN…..
the net salary increase for the Red Sox of that trade would be about 20.5 million dollars. aside from anything else, that’s a TON of added money to what is already the 3rd highest payroll, and then they’d have to go an get a closer!
They could probably turn one of them 50 pitching prospects into a closer, thats what they did with Papelbon.
Random fact but papelbon has 6 pitches, 6. Outside of Johan and Pedro I’m not sure any mets starter has more than 3, and only 2 they can do anything with.
papelbon may have 6 pitches, but he uses 2….he’s been a closer for them and is a top 5 closer in the league making NO money. gina i normally agree with you, but they will NOT part with papelbon, not going to happen.
and once again, aside from the fact that over every red sox fans dead body would they trade papelbon, that trade results in a net increase of 20.5 million dollars for the Sox!
pelf “has” a 4 seam, a sinker, a change, a slider, and a curve.
maine “has” a fb, slider, changeup, and curve.
etc etc etc…..i’ve never seen paps throw anything but a well located fastball and the occasional splitter.
According to pitch f/x Pelfrey threw the fb, the sinker, a change and slider this year, maine threw a fastball, slider and change and Paplebon threw a fastball, curve, change and splitter.
how many times did they throw those tertiary pitches? how often? what % of the time? my point is they have those pitches, but they RARELY stray from their main 2…..
Are you sure you are not mixing up Papelbon and Dice-K? I know Dice-K has six but I have never heard Papelbon having six.
addition by subtraction means bye bye to castillo, heilman, scho, pedro, el duque, moises, aguayo, muniz, maybe sandy alomar senior, probably easley.
delgado is such a tricky situation. we need pitching. he is tradeable. but we won’t trade him and sign a 1B, we’d probably put tatis or evans at 1B. i’m very torn with delgado.
My guess for next year:
gone are pedro, alou, heilman, scho, castillo, easley, maybe schneider or castro…..
signing of Krod, Ollie Perez, one of the japanese free agent pitchers, Fernando Tatis.
I’m also very very curious what they will do with Angel Pagan.
agree on pedro, alou, heilman, scho, castillo, easley
let’s not forget elduque (well let’s forget him), ayala is a free agent: let him go. also include sanchez
perez should NOT be re-signed, he’s going to command too much money for a an unproven pitcher.
the way i see it the mets need 2 starting pitchers: sabathia and livan hernandez (to a one year nothing contract). if you want to keep heiman then have him start the year in aaa as a starter (if he has options).
get a closer, prefer fuentes. bring in hard throwers to the bullpen to complement smith and feliciano.
Do NOT sign Burrell or Dunn.
Sign Orlando Hudson and Manny Ramirez
Trade Castillo and Delgado to the Dbacks for Captain America (Byrnes) and Brandon Lyon or John Rauch.
1997 Mets: 88 Wins
1998 Mets: 88 Wins & collapse by losing their last 5 games after leading an NL Central team in the Wild Card by one game with five games to go.
1999 Mets: 97 Wins with a dramatic 163rd postseason win over the Reds to clinch Wild Card. Lose in the NLCS in 6 games.
2000 Mets: 94 Wins to clinch Wild Card, beat SF & STL to make it to World Series and lose to Yankees in 5 games.
2007 Mets: 88 Wins
2008 Mets: 89 Wins & collapse by losing 3 of 5 after leading one game on an NL Central team in the Wild Card with five games to go.
So can we win 97 games and get back to the World Series? And win it this time?
Had the Mets won at least one of those last 5 games too, the Mets would have at least been in a three way tie with the Cubs & Giants. So in many ways, that collapse may have been worst than this one.
This year’s collapse only feels so bad when put back to back with last years collapse, which WAS the worst. This year’s “collapse” was the sort of thing some team or two goes through each year. Last years was historic.
Yeah, that’s sort of true. Had the Mets not won the Wild Card in ‘99, we may have felt similarly that year. This season was not a collapse, but more of a let down. Or choking under pressure. People can choke under pressure, but to allow a team catch you seven games with seventeen to go will always be regarded as one of the worst in history. Omar Minaya has to do everything in his problem to prevent a part three of this. He has to work with acquiring a bullpen and leadership up.
I say the Mets have to look to address three big things: Leadership, Getting Younger & the Bullpen.
That means bring in a leader (i.e. Rowand via trade – possibly swap for Castillo) , get rid of Pedro/Alou/El Duque & what ever other elderly players we have and sign a closer (K-Rod or Fuentes) + 2 other set up men. And trade away Show & Heilman.
This team has to bid for K-Rod. They have to draw the line though. That means we can’t give him more than 4 years. Or 60 million. I think that’ll be enough to seal the deal because the Angels won’t bid that high and other teams may not either. K-Rod is 6 years younger than Fuentes. That means he could have played out a 4 year contract and still been 2 years younger than Fuentes. This team has to draw the line with Oliver Perez too. That has to be 4 years/52 million. He’s a pitcher worth holding onto because of his age and health. Derek Lowe is old – the core of the Mets problems. Garland is an idea, but he’s not coming off his best season.
Give me K-Rod, Oliver Perez, Dennys Reyes, David Weathers & Aaron Rowand via trade and I’m very happy. This can all be done while keeping the payroll under 150 million.
I know Weathers is old, as is Russ Springer who I would have recommended. Many of the best relievers in the game at old though. He’s done it year in and year out and both are very healthy pitchers so I wouldn’t be worried with him. In fact, Juan Cruz may even be more of a question. The left-handed set-up market is much deeper so there’s no excuse for Minaya not to bring in at least one of Rhodes, Reyes, Beimel or Ohman.
weathers is wayyy past his prime i don’t think he can be like arthur rhodes and catch lightening in a jar like the marlins did last year plus wasn’t weathers on the mitchell report?
Besides you need a bottle to catch lightening!
brian fuentes is a part time closer and he’s 33…..TERRIBLE idea.
i would be very hesitant to give ANY contract to a middle reliever. especially anyone from the NL…..
name me one #3 pitcher in the NL that has the talent, health, stuff, upside, big game success, playoff experience, and dominance of the phils/braves/yanks/fish, and youth of Oliver Perez….
rowand is very expensive and not that good……he’s not that clutch either……
I had an interesting idea for LF that nobody has been tossing around, what about Jerry Hairston, Jr. I don’t know that much about him as I don’t follow the Reds at all, but he seems to be a part time player for them. Could he play LF full time for us and spell Reyes at SS from time to time? He’s not a Type A, so he won’t cost us a draft pick. I honestly don’t know if this is feasible or not, any thoughts?
It’s a good idea. He’d be similar to Fernando Tatis. Hairston hit better for average this season, but Tatis has more power. Tatis is only a year older too. Bringing in Hairston would help expand our depth. His value would come primarily through his versatility to play multiple positions. He can play 2B too. He can’t be depended on though because in ‘07 he hit .189. I don’t know if it’s reasonable to depend on Tatis either for a platoon. However, as a bench player it’s an idea worth considering.
Rowand would change the dynamic of this team incredibly. I’m not saying he’d impact through his statistics entirely. However, I’m sure you can agree he wouldn’t necessarily hurt. He’s a good contact hitter. He is right-handed and can move to a corner OF – something we need. He’s a decent 2 hitter and may remind us of the ‘06 Lo Duca.
Rowand’s due 4 years/44 million + 4 million due on his signing bonus. Overall, it’d be like signing him 4 years/30 million because we’d be dumping Castillo in the process. If SF isn’t willing to take him, than I’d walk away. The Giants will listen though because it’ll shed 30 million off their books. Plus, they need a 2B & have a habit of holding onto old middle IF’s.
I don’t believe Fuentes would be the best idea out there either. However, I don’t think trading Fernando Martinez and/or Jon Niese for Kunz or Street would be worth it. B.J. Ryan is virtually identical to Fuentes in age and stats. Fuentes hasn’t had Tommy John though. He’d only be a back up plan.
The best thing they can do is bid for K-Rod if the price is not out of control. Most good teams have a closer. The only big market team that may have the money for him are the Angels & Tigers. The Angels don’t want him because of how deep their bullpen is. Does anyone honestly think the Tigers or Cardinals would even try to outbid us?
You’re right about Oliver Perez. In my opinion, the clinching factor is that he’s left-handed. Every other pitcher who we’re interested in (besides Sabathia of course) is right-handed. Many of those other pitchers (Sheets, Burnett) are injury prone.
If the Mets look to go more cost friendly, they may opt to Randy Wolf or Braden Looper. I think the best thing the Mets can do though is hold onto their big game pitcher. I just don’t know what the competition out there will be for him though. Outside of C.C, the Mets should than look to Ollie. From there, Lowe, Garland, Wolf, Looper in that order. Lowe’s the only old guy out on the market who’s pretty much never missed a start who’s got loads of postseason experience.
First thing, if we lose Perez we get protected picks, meaning no matter how many type A free agents we sign we still have at least a first rounder and supplemental from losing Perez. Given all the needs we have, and a ranking system that makes Darren Oliver and Juan Cruz as valuable as Manny Ramirez and C.C. Sabathia, we had better get used to not having Perez on the team. We need those picks desperately after all the picks we’ve lost in recent years to other type A signings. If perez could be had for 10 mill a yr as our 4th starter fine. But 15 mill a yr and 2 high draft picks is too steep a price.
Second, I wouldn’t be so quick to dump Pedro. Historically pitchers have good yrs the 2nd season following surgeries similar to Pedros. He loves NY, will not be as pricey because he is coming off injury, and he’s good in the clubhouse. You could do far worse as a 5th starter on a 1 yr deal and yes I think he would re-sign at that price. Niese is insurance as 6th starter.
Third, Braden Looper would be a heck of a fit for this team. You give him 2yrs @6-7 million and use him as a 4th starter (199 innings and a lower ERA than Perez in 08). He could be converted to closer or set up depending on need and has performed in NY. He blew 7 saves his worst yr as mets closer, same as Wagner. Not saying he’s the new closer, just that he’s a possible solution to three problems, comes cheap, and can pitch in NY.
Next, trade Castillo and Heilman or Scho for Zito and cash. We get five years of zito for about 12 mill per and end up w/ a guy who provides 220 innings, is left handed, and who knows-maybe turns it around a little. San Fran would dump him in a heartbeat.
So we end up with Johan, Big Pelf, Zito, Looper, and Pedro with Niese as our 6th man and Maine as the wild card. 4 starters a virtual lock to pitch 800 innings combined. the 5th is just as likely to win 15 games as Oliver Perez is. Sign Fuentes and add Maine to the bullpen, poss. to share closiong duties with fuentes, who was used in set up in CO from time to time as well.
This is a better rotation than last year. I feel like Maine will never be able to go deep into games and I’d make him the closer outright were he left handed and not coming off surgery. If Looper struggles or Pedro gets injured again we have some flexibility to plug holes within our own staff. The back end of our bullpen would be strong with Fuentes, Looper/Maine, Sanchez (who will also be better a year removed from surgery-maybe not the old sanchez- but def better) and perhaps Denys Reyes and Darren Oliver. Adding Manny makes the lineup as fierce as they come and even allows for a defensive 2nd basemen (of the bargain variety, not Hudson) since the 1-6 hitters are just absurd.
Thats my blueprint for 09. I would stay away from Sabathia and K rod ( both will be dl prone midway through their contracts) Lowe (can’t see him coming to the mets) and Hudson (over rated and will soon decline) and hold onto our young players and draft picks. Comments?
I don’t know why so many people are against the idea of signing solid relievers who’ve done it before. Look at the White Sox. They signed Linebrink and Dotel who are actually much more risky than say Beimel and Weathers and it worked. It’s why they won their division. Had they not had them, Minnesota would have won it.
We got money coming off the books. And we have a problem that is like a shining light. I agree it’s not the preferred route because of it’s expense, but it’s sometimes they only route. I think when Omar said ideally ”you wouldn’t want to sign relievers to multi-year deals, but it’s the reality of it” he was indirectly preparing the Wilpon’s for a couple mid reliever signings.
What other thing could we do? Irresponsibly stick with what we got? That’s not going to work. Trade all of our prospects for guy’s who’ll probably be more question than the ones we can sign? Like I said, all Springer, Weathers, Reyes & Beimel have all had three consectuvie good years. I don’t know what they’ll choose, but some sort of overhaul is needed.
something they really need*
Which would you prefer, b/c i don’t think we could have both….or should.
A) trade delgado, sign Manny, evans and tatis at 1B
B) use Pagan in LF, keep Delgado….
A.
or tatis in LF in choice B could be also…..
I’d choose option A, but I don’t know why you’d put Angel Pagan in higher regard than Murphy or Evans in option B. Still though, it’d depend on the length of Manny’s contract and what we can get in return for Delgado via trade.
murph is gonna be our 2B next year…..
evans is no LF….pagan handled the position fine….
I don’t think Murphy will be our 2B next season, but if he is I’d love it. The indications Minaya has given us has shown incredible reluctance. Plus, as much as it terrifies us Castillo’s still under contract and will be a pain to trade. Both of us know Omar might be stubborn enough to leave Castillo on the roster. It wouldn’t shock me if he left Anderson there too.
One month of Pagan isn’t enough to prove to me he’s capable of playing every day. Endy Chavez virtually gave us that for 2 months straight. There’s no guarantee either that Tatis will be back nor productive. I don’t know why you’re so against Evans when he was productive last season. I’d only use him to platoon against left-hander’s in either LF or 1B.
i’m not against evans but he’s a 1B and was nothing special……
the whole point of this thread is addition by subtraction. castillo will be gone.
i didn’t think murph would be our 2B either, but he’s done well in the AFL at the position and it’s clear that is the plan for now.
the white sox won their division b/c it was a weak weak division this year. the way you build a pen is through young strong arms that hitters haven’t seen enough of.
I hope the addition by subtraction will work. I think the only team out there that’ll be convinced taking Castillo will be SF who has a 2B void and Aaron Rowand who the Mets need and the Giants need to trade. I haven’t seen any of the AFL games, but I do believe the reports… He is a sound player. I think he’ll be able to do well at 2B. The main question is whether or not the Mets give him the chance.
Hitters have seen plenty of Weathers and Springer throughout the years in the NL, yet they good set up men. And Weathers is a good back up option at closer too being that he’s had 50 saves in his 4 year tenure in Cincinnati. Reyes is solid year in year out too. Give Beimel a little time and he may destroy his arm with his pitching motion. Rhodes is a big question mark. However, Affeldt would only take one or two years.
The AL Central wasn’t all that weak either… I know they weren’t the AL East, but they were much better than the NL West. The NL East only took 3 more wins to win. I don’t know how much of an impact it made, but had the Mets been the one to sign Dotel who was out on the market for a while… maybe we would have won the Wild Card.
Whether we like it or not, it’ll either be Castillo, who ever he’s traded for or a FA in the line-up. Murphy will be there. There’s really only one void in the line up. Most likely that’ll be at 2B and not LF. If it’s 2B, I think the best thing they can do is sign Eckstein. He’s a tough player who’ll help the Mets tremendously. He’s much cheaper than Hudson, Manny, Ibanez or who ever else is out there. If the Mets buyout Castillo, they should be able to still pull off Eckstein. I think by swapping Castillo for either Aaron Rowand, Andruw Jones or Juan Pierre, it’ll alleviate the burden of his presence and provide us with stability in the OF. I just don’t know if it’ll happen though, but I guess we’ll have to see.
david eckstein is a complete waste of time sorry dude…….he is not good……
castillo is not getting your rowand……jones is basically the same disgruntled former all star castillo is…..id take pierre in that situation.
I don’t think Andruw Jones would be worth it either because it’d hamper next year’s payroll. We’d only get his services for one year, he is well past his prime and has injuries so I’ll X him out. ARZ isn’t interested in Castillo, so I’ve X’ed out Byrnes. And Guillen’s a clubhouse nightmare, so I’ve X’ed him out too.
I would take Pierre too. He’d cost us 10.5MM extra over Castillo in 3 years. He’s had experience playing corner OF positions. The problem that would exist is that he’s got no power. He is coming off 40 stolen bases in a part time season and has never hit below .276 in a season though. He’s requested a trade. The question would be whether LA would want Castillo or not.
The Giants would do the swap in a heartbeat because it’d save them 30 million. If we had to, I’d throw Heilman in there to get it done. They’ve used Rowand as a middle of the order hitter (something he’s clearly not). Plus, as I mentioned they have a 2B void. LA obviously does too with Kent, Furcal, Blake & Garciapara all FA’s.
hey if the giants wanna trade aaron rowand for luis castillo straight up, then sign me up……
that said, i don’t see what is at all special bout rowand.
and i also severly doubt they’d make that trade…..seveeerely doubt.
i think if we could do luis for what his name on the royals ( left fielder) then i’d do that in a heartbeat he has only 2 years left which should give f-mart plenty of time to sink or swim plus this guy is a power bat which other than beltran and tatis on a limited stretch we had almost no power in our outfield
Jose Guillen is a poison to the clubhouse. Not as bad as Milton Bradley, but he’d bring more negativity than his game. He’s a slightly above average player. I’m not so convinced the Royals are going to give up on him. It’s not like they have the best line-up. Castillo wouldn’t help them much.
Mr. Met made a cameo on the Daily Show last night, reruns on today.
was he doing the watusi in stiletto heels? :P
very disturbing image….
thank you
all this searching for a leader and pointing fingers, no matter who this messiah is the mets are bringing, he better be able to pitch the 7th, 8th and 9th inning, five days a week and also be a great situational lefty and a righty who can be counted on to cross over.
i definitly agree pat
look we don’t even know who will truely be available until after the shrills lose the world series and remember sometimes the best moves are the minor ones or the ones that are the least expected (see john maine, Ollie perez Ron Darling etc)
btw guys i don’t know if there are many bloom county, or opus fans still out there but it looks like this sunday will be the last comic strip just wanted to let ya’s know since i always thought opus the penguin was a mets fan
I’m in the same camp as More Choco. Sign Ollie.
We’re in need of 2 starters and if Ollie was a FA from another team, we’d be looking at him. His age, health and LH are reason enough. He won 15 games last year with his awful consistency. I know he didn’t this year, but what starter on the Mets did win the games they should have? — thanks to our BP. Everything else that’s been talked about – even C.C. – is also going to be a question mark. If we’re not going after C.C., then resign Ollie.
The only problem with Ollie is how much he taxes a bullpen. He only averaged 5 2/3 innings a start and never pitched over 7 2/3 while having many starts that he did not even get to the required innings to even have a chance at winning. We can get better consistancy out of Lowe and even Garland. Neither have his potential but right now I would take consistancy over potential.
Ollie gets an offer for 4/44 and that’s it from me.
Good enough. I’m on board with that offer. But with his current agent, probably not going to happen. So we should be looking at alternatives, such as you suggested.
Agreed. Offer him arbitration and take the picks if he does not take that offer.
I would much rather have Lowe for 3/40 and 2 picks than Ollie for 4/60 and no picks.
agreed..
I could agree with that too… 4 year/60 or 5 year/60 is too much for Ollie. I wouldn’t go any higher than 4 years/48 million. Maybe throw a team option with a 4 million buyout in there. I don’t think Lowe will be interested in pitching in New York though. And Garland may be declining. Ollie’s probably the best bet because of his age and he’s lefty…
He ain’t taking 4/$44 mill. No way. He’s a Boris client. Expect to ask for something like 4/$65 million, or 5/$75 mill. The market for talented, though inconisistent, pitching is high. What did Carlos Silva get?
Perez gets more than Kyle Lohse did.
4/50 makes sense, although I see it going higher.
Expect the number to go up to 4 years/52 million. If it jumps any higher, that’s when negotiations have to end. The market out there will give him more than 11 million a year. I could be wrong because Lohse only got a 4 year/41 million dollar extension. I don’t think Boras will have a home team discount on the Mets though. Ollie can’t get 5 years. I don’t think Lowe would command more than 3. And Garland’s pretty young like Ollie too, so he might get 4. Probably a similar deal to Lohse. The best realistic option in the 11 to 14 million a year range for us is Ollie, but there’s other good options out there.
I really think that Delgado should be traded to the Jays for Ryan. I could see them doing that. IF we could expand the trade to get Overbay then even better.
Delgado, Heilman (who could start for them), Evans (Could be their 1B after Delgado) and Carp for Ryan and Overbay?
Then you can go out and sign your LF if you want or Hudson for 2nd and Murphy in LF.
What about a trade with the O’s for Huff and Roberts? It would take Fmart but maybe with cash we could send them Castillo to be his replacement and Delgado for 1B as they will need a 1B next season.
Maybe something like Fmart, Evans, Delgado, Castillo and cash for Roberts and Huff.
Huff could play 1B for us.
Reyes, Murphy, Beltran, Wright, Huff, Roberts, Church, Schnieder/Castro?
Here’s another idea with that. Even if we don’t have enough to get Roberts (which we do and should) maybe they would do a Castro and Castillo for Hernandez.
Hernandez and Schnider combined could make for a decent platoon. Castro is never healthy enough for us and is only looked at as a backup. With the O’s he could prove he is a starter. They would save 16.5 million on Hernadez but gain 18 in Castillo so we would have to pay some cash as well or include a guy like Heilman I guess.
only problem with that i guess would be castro never proved he was a starter here due to injuries…how would he prove hes a starter over there?
Shhh. The major thing for them would be getting out of Hernandez salary. So I guess I would not see them bringing in Castillo unless we included cash. Maybe if we paid for an entire season of Castillo? Leaving his contract as 3/12?
as drastic as that sounds your probably right….
Hernandez may actually do the Mets some good because he’d provide an offensive boost at the catcher’s position. I don’t know how much they’re looking to move him though. He’s still not that unreasonably priced. to how they traded for Santana, they’d probably want to sign Roberts to an extension upon the trade if they were giving up F-Mart or Niese.
Trade Schneider/Delgado/Castillo/Niese for Ramon Martinez/Aubrey Huff/Brian Roberts/Melvin Mora Schneider, Delgado, Castillo & Niese are due 33 Million. Those 4 Orioles’ are due 33 million.
Huff replaces Delgado at 1st with similar production and a smaller ego. Roberts & Huff are each due 8 million next season so they’d save 4 million on Delgado who’s due 12 million. We take Martinez for Castro which saves Baltimore 5.5 million. Plus Mora who’s due 8MM next season + a 1MM buyout in ‘10. Overall, the Orioles would be saving 18.5 Million.
It’s a good idea, but the main concern would be can Huff play the OF. He hit 32 home runs, over 100 RBI’s & over .300 so he would be about as good of a replacement for Delgado you’ll find out there. Huff’s only due 8 million in ‘09 & is a FA after that. Castillo’s owed 18 million so I don’t know how willing Baltimore is to take him. I like the idea of Roberts though. F-Mart is a lot to give up, but this is a trade that’d be worth doing.
Meant to say trade Castro. Unless Baltimore were interested in Schneider. And Mora can held the Mets with some depth on the bench. Much more than Castillo.
Why on earth would you want to get rid of a 19 year old potentially amazing of/1b for brian roberts and aubrey huff…that could possibly be a top 5 worst trade in mets history
Clean house.
Obviously, the guy we have to get rid of is TACO. Right Kingman?
get rid of your sub-par GM
Delgado/Schneider/Castillo/Niese for Huff/Hernandez/Roberts/Mora – Would it be worth it for us? Would Baltimore do it?
Or just Delgado/Schneider for Huff/Hernandez?
What about that Eric Byrns for Castillo deal?
From what I’ve heard, Arizona’s not interested in Castillo. I don’t blame them because Byrnes is only due 4 million more. When you’re talking about a guy like Pierre who’s owed 10.5 Million more and is on a team that has 4 OF’s + a pursuit of Manny, the Dodgers may be more desperate. As may the Giants who can shed 30 million by moving Rowand.
If it were up to me, this would be the order in which I’d move Castillo by preference:
Rowand/Pierre/Byrnes … than Jones/Guillen/Schmidt but I’m not so hot of any of those guys.
Juan Pierre is an absolutely atrocious offensive player…repeat: AWFUL, ATROCIOUS, ABYSMAL…as in worse than Jeff Francouer and even worse than the immortal Michael Bourn if you take into consideration the fact that Bourn at least plays center field whereas Pierre PLAYS A CORNER OUTFIELD SPOT
This is the mess that Omar has gotten the Mets into.
This isn’t 1990 anymore, where every year there was a glut of free agents to shop from, at every position. In 2009, teams are already locking up all the decent players to long term contracts, and the only guys available via free agency are old players looking for ridiculous contracts (Manny). There is a handful of free agents, and if you want one of them, you have to overpay to an insane degree. Just watch what Sabathia and K-Rod get.
Meanwhile, the Mets now have gaping holes all over their roster, a crappy farm system to re-stock from, and they are set up to get fleeced in the free agent market. The alternative is to “rebuild” through the farm system, which will take 2-3 years, even if they do it well, which they probabaly won’t, given their history.
Omar is an idiot, he doesn’t understand baseball in 2008, and the Mets are NOT in a good position for the future. They are not “one player away” from anything.
And oh yeah, we have 4 more years of Omar chasing his tail, trying to use a 1990 model of baseball operations to get the Mets a championship. Never going to happen, sorry. We have to wait until the clueless Wilpons finally dump Omar, which should be around 2011.