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According to a statistical break-down by Beyond the Boxscore, the Mets not only had the worst second baseman in all of baseball, in Damion Easley, they also had the third worst in Luis Castillo and the sixth worst in Argenis Reyes.
…thanks to Nate for the info, i guess…
Naturally, according to the same post, the best second baseman in baseball was Phillies 2B Chase Utley, followed by Sox 2B Dustin Pedroia and O’s 2B Brian Roberts.
In a recent report for FoxSports.com, Ken Rosenthal wrote that the O’s could look to trade Roberts if the two sides do not reach agreement on a contract extension.
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Ouch.
no surprise there…..lol
We didn’t need a statistician to tell us this.
We only needed a pair of eyes.
How could Easley be worse than Castillo and Argenis? If you gave me a choice of those three, I’d take Easley hands down.
Probably because defensively Easley grades out as by far the worst of the 3. Argenis is by far the best of the 3 defensively, but can’t hit a lick. And Castillo is mediocre (at best) at both.
They basically all 3 stink.
Yep, the defense makes sense. I’d still take Easley because he is the only one of the 3 capable of hitting the ball out of the infield. Man, I really wish Jose Valentin was healthy. He played flawless defense and hit better than most second baseman (in 2006 at least).
Yep, some clone of Jose Valentin would be perfect for this team.
if we’re gonna go back in time for a cloned second basemen, I’d like Edgardo Alfonzo circa 1999, thank you very much.
Of course, if we’re allowed to go back in time and make clones, I see no reason why we can’t clone a non-Met 2B, in which case I want Rogers Hornsby circa 1924-25.
Probably because defensively Easley grades out as by far the worst of the 3
Not so. I’m not sure what stats they are using but Easley and Castillo have almost identical fielding stats this year (ZR and FLF PCT), and even in their chart, Easley only has 1 fewer point on offense than Castillo does.
The reason his method ranks Easley lower is because they gave him 3 fewer points on offense which is also a mystery since Easley had more RBIs and a higher OPS than Castillo.
Also, I believe his method is quantitative which means that any player who played much less than a full year is at a disadvantage.
If he had used a qualitative methods I doubt Easley would rank that low.
Easley only made 4 out of zone defensive plays all year, which is tragically low for someone that 539 innings at second base.
And Easley fielded more balls successfully in zone than Castillo did. So they pretty much balance each other out, which is basically what this author said.
It was on offense that he ranked Easley much lower than Castillo, which as I said makes no sense to me since Easley had better offensive numbers
He must place a heavy emphasis on OBP.
he must place a Mo Vaughn heavy emphasis on OBP. I like guys with high OBPs, but not if that’s the ONLY thing they contribute, which it was for Castillo.
I’m guessing you don’t understand linear weights.
Dan Murphy has something like 10 double plays and 1 error in 10 games. It’s about darn time that Cerrone & co. give credit where credit is due and view him as a legit candidate.
Daniel
Minaya pretty much said that he wasn’t a candidate, so I don’t think you can hang that on Cerrone.
How do they determine who was best/worst? because in my mind, Easley is better than Castillo and Reyes
Methodology is all linked there in the post.
Oh, and that same site lists Beltran as the # 2 CF and says:
“…Beltran is one of the ten best position players in the world”
and
“Given what Manny and Tex are going to sign for this year (and what Andruw Jones signed for last year), his $18MM yearly salary is a steal.”
So of course he should be traded. Geez!
Insert anti-Beltran rant by Furioso here
You know, his name is perfect because that’s exacly how I feel after reading everyone one of his posts.
FYI, Carlos Beltran is #2 on the Best Center Fielders list in all of baseball, behind Grady Sizemore.
Yep, and Wright will be #2, and Reyes will be #2 at his position as well.
TRADE THEM!
Yet people still love to dismiss the notion of Daniel Murphy playing 2nd base for this team next year.
Well there you have it, even if it wasn’t blatantly obvious to your eyes. The Mets get absolutely zero from 2nd base to begin with. Anything is a major upgrade.
I’m confident Murphy can figure out a way to play at least a respectable enough 2nd base to warrant his bat in that spot.
It certainly can’t get any worse. And it’s a hell of a lot cheaper than Hudson, who I do like but would take money and resources away from LF, the pen and starting pitching.
I was one of the doubters but you can’t get worse than worst.
People, as in people here, aren’t dismissing the notion.
The Mets seem pretty skeptical.
That being said, they have him at 2B in winterball right now. I’m sure they’re thinking about it.
I think that people here underrate how difficult a position 2B is. That being said, if Murphy can play it, Murphy can play it.
I do find it rather surprising that the Mets seem so dismissive of the mere notion of Murphy at 2nd base.
If nothing else, it’s a very tiny bit of leverage in talks with Hudson to show some confidence in Murphy at 2nd base. It certainly can’t hurt to be less dismissive.
All that said, I view Murphy as one of these gamers who will figure out how to do whatever he is asked to do. He seems to have that makeup.
Put him at 2nd and tell him you need to learn 2nd base in a hurry because we want you there next year. I’m sure he’ll justify your confidence in him.
The smartest thing the Mets can do is let Murphy play 2nd base next season. He’s capable and a fast learner. It will allow the Mets to address the bigger needs of the team.
Jeff Kent made it to the hof playing an average, tough 2b, with a hot bat. Now I am not making Murphy out to be a HOFer… however, it would be a good move for both him and the team. 2b is going to transform some, just like SS did.
As much as I want O-Dawg’s attitude in here, If Murphy plays a solid 2b in Winter Leagues, it makes sense to save the cash for the bullpen and SP. I would rather have Murph at the 2b, then put the money to CC, or Manny, or KRod, or whoever.
Its not as if DM is a defensive wiz out there anyway. He gets by because he is a smart baseball player, and understands the finer points of the game. That quality will translate to 2b.
Might as well put Murphy on 2nd– anything is better than what they had in ‘08.
Iceman is a good bat off the bench and occasional fill-in, but we all know he can’t be starting too many games for a contending team. I’m very much in favor of starting Murphy at second and dealing Castillo for Guillen, if that deal’s still on the table.
And, yeah, you gotta look at Manny for LF, but I get the feeling the Dodgers will throw a lot of money at him to stay in LA.
I think the Mets also might be well served to look into the possible availability of Milton Bradley. I might even be willing to part with Niese in such a deal. Personally, I don’t think Niese projects as anything better than a #4 or #5 starter, so I think the Mets would be best served to deal him for a good reward while his value’s high.
I don’t know if I’d dismiss Niese that quickly. His stuff from the left side (curve, fastball) is reminiscient of Barry Zito circa 2001 (back when Barry cracked 90 MPH). I think he has a lot more potential than a #4 or #5.
I dont think you can afford to trade any of our pitching prospects this offseason.
Too many bullpen/rotation holes to let something go…
Bradley is going to be a free agent this off-season. So we wouldn’t have to trade for him.
I think we are all missing that bottom line about Roberts. He would be perfect for us. Check out his numbers, they make Orlando Hudson look like Awful Recraptillo’s. He is the perfect 2 hitter as his OBP is just incredible. A 1-2 punch of Reyes Roberts would be something to see. Trade them Fmart, Evans and cash for Roberts and a salary dump. PLEASE.
lead him off and bat reyes second…he’d be on base for all those reyes XBHs
I agree. I’ve long felt that Reyes is the absolute PERFECT #2 hitter. Just perfect.
roberts-reyes-wright-beltran
i’d love that 1-4. throw delgado in the 5 spot with an .850 OPS and 25 bombs..we’d be in the top 5 in runs scored again.
I’m not too sure about that. I love Brian Roberts at 2B but I honestly don’t think he fits in the batting order. I like:
Reyes
Beltran
Murphy
Wright
Delgado
[Left Fielder]
Church
Schenider
[Pitcher]
I don’t care how they do it, but Murphy needs to be in the lineup every single day. Offensively, he’s worth more at second base, if he can learn the position. I like Eric Byrnes at LF but the D-Backs don’t want anything to do with Castillo. He would make a good 6 or 7 hitter tho, IMHO, and I love his hustle.
Maybe we can get Roberts for The Taco? (see next thread)
Take this guy’s ranking with a grain of salt.
I’m not sure what stats they are using but Easley and Castillo have almost identical fielding stats this year (ZR and FLF PCT), and even in their chart, Easley only has 1 fewer point on offense than Castillo does.
The reason his method ranks Easley lower is because they gave him 3 fewer points on offense which is also a mystery since Easley had more RBIs and a higher OPS than Castillo.
Also, I believe his method is essentially quantitative which means that any player who played much less than a full year is at a disadvantage.
If he had used a qualitative method I doubt Easley would rank that low.
Easley only has 1 fewer point on defense than Castillo does.
What makes you think RBIs would factore in to it at all? That’s a team stat.
The methodology is completely there. If you really want to have a critique, the best way is to get informed.
Also: remember OPS is unbalanced. SLG is not equal to OBP.
I didn’t say that RBIs factored into it. I don’t really know what factored into it. I simply said that from those two perspectives (RBIs and OPS) Easley was more productive.
The results just don’t make sense looking at many stats and from what most fans saw this year.
As for being informed, I did glance at that page but he doesn’t go into detail as to how he came up with his ranking.
Since you seem to know so much about it, why don’t you explain it for the rest of us? OK, smart guy?
And what do you mean SLG is not equal to OBP? Do you mean OBP is more important than SLG as some sabermetricians believe. You know, many sabermetricians believed that clutchness doesn’t exist, but the father of the field now believes it does. So there ya go!
The supporters of Castillo have always said that he’s valuable because of his high OBP. Heck, I was even one of them last year. But after watching him for over a year, I now think that his OBP must be one of the emptiest in baseball. For whatever reason — unclutchness, clubhouse chemistry, other intangibles — he adds nothing to this team and seems to bring it down. It could be as simple as his seemingly lethargic and/or disinterested personality.
The explanation of how the numbers come out would fill this block. The long and short of it is it’s a very, very typical offensive run estimator and then a run estimator using a prism of defensive numbers.
I myself like adding VORP to an estimate (x0.8) of plus/minus, and it comes out extremely similar.
The point is that he provides a link to thorough explanations. You might as well follow them. It gives you a better platform to stand on then merely “the numbers don’t agree with my anecdotal opinion.”
The rest of that rant was pretty crazy.
one point of OBP is about 3 times more valuable than one more point of SLG, with variation from year to year. and no, that’s not an arbitrary number.
don’t worry about FAH. he’s a baseball luddite. clutchness, grit, clubhouse chemistry, all the other empty platitudes…he loves them. no idea why. and yes, he is sort of crazy.
metsftw ftw
philkid, all I’m looking for is an explanation of what numbers he uses to come up with his calculations. You don’t need to give me the exact formula, but I would like to see a comprehensive listing of what stats go into it. For example — OBP, BBs, KOs, etc. What exactly goes into his stew? You don’t need a city block to just list the ingredients.
When you click on the link, there is no detailed information there either.
For example, Justin says he uses RZR and ZR, yet Easley has a better RZR than Castillo and an almost identical ZR. So how did he end up with one less point than Castillo :?:
Is it OOZ?
So would you care to list exactly which stats he uses?
The main problem I have with his column is that this is basically a quantitative method. You can’t use such a method to determine the “worst.” Though it is valid for determining the best (or more correctly, the most valuable). And this Kalkman guy actually uses the word “worst” when listing those who ranked near the bottom of his list.
Also, what was his cutoff? In terms of win shares, Easley is certainly no where near the bottom of the pack for second basemen in the NL this year. He’s about in the middle.
T