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	<title>Comments on: Stat: Mets have Not-Good Second Basemen</title>
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	<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/</link>
	<description>MetsBlog.com features the latest Mets rumors, player movement, and news circulating around the Internet, as well as Mets related insights and opinions by Matthew Cerrone and his team of guest bloggers.</description>
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		<title>By: brahmabull75</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-378192</link>
		<dc:creator>brahmabull75</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 23:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-378192</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not too sure about that. I love Brian Roberts at 2B but I honestly don&#039;t think he fits in the batting order. I like:
Reyes
Beltran
Murphy
Wright
Delgado
[Left Fielder]
Church
Schenider
[Pitcher]

I don&#039;t care how they do it, but Murphy needs to be in the lineup every single day. Offensively, he&#039;s worth more at second base, if he can learn the position. I like Eric Byrnes at LF but the D-Backs don&#039;t want anything to do with Castillo. He would make a good 6 or 7 hitter tho, IMHO, and I love his hustle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not too sure about that. I love Brian Roberts at 2B but I honestly don&#8217;t think he fits in the batting order. I like:<br />
Reyes<br />
Beltran<br />
Murphy<br />
Wright<br />
Delgado<br />
[Left Fielder]<br />
Church<br />
Schenider<br />
[Pitcher]</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t care how they do it, but Murphy needs to be in the lineup every single day. Offensively, he&#8217;s worth more at second base, if he can learn the position. I like Eric Byrnes at LF but the D-Backs don&#8217;t want anything to do with Castillo. He would make a good 6 or 7 hitter tho, IMHO, and I love his hustle.</p>
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		<title>By: skyking162</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-378123</link>
		<dc:creator>skyking162</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-378123</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a link to the study showing the AL&#039;s superiority in pitching, through the 2008 season: 

(ok, I forgot I can&#039;t post links.  but it&#039;s at the Inside The Book Blog -- google it.  or email me: skyking162 AT gmail)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a link to the study showing the AL&#8217;s superiority in pitching, through the 2008 season: </p>
<p>(ok, I forgot I can&#8217;t post links.  but it&#8217;s at the Inside The Book Blog &#8212; google it.  or email me: skyking162 AT gmail)</p>
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		<title>By: therealsince86</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-377443</link>
		<dc:creator>therealsince86</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 00:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-377443</guid>
		<description>With or without roids?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With or without roids?</p>
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		<title>By: Leiter22</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-377441</link>
		<dc:creator>Leiter22</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 00:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-377441</guid>
		<description>I saw above we were talking about cloning 2B&#039;s....how about Jay Bell of 1999-2000...holy crow!  Slick glove, speed, gap and HR power!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw above we were talking about cloning 2B&#8217;s&#8230;.how about Jay Bell of 1999-2000&#8230;holy crow!  Slick glove, speed, gap and HR power!</p>
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		<title>By: philkid3</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-376099</link>
		<dc:creator>philkid3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-376099</guid>
		<description>Since this thread is dying and I&#039;ll get no more wild guessing, I&#039;ll answer that I&#039;m a Rangers fan.

I was linked here by a Mets fan a while ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since this thread is dying and I&#8217;ll get no more wild guessing, I&#8217;ll answer that I&#8217;m a Rangers fan.</p>
<p>I was linked here by a Mets fan a while ago.</p>
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		<title>By: skyking162</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-375974</link>
		<dc:creator>skyking162</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-375974</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve explained both these issues.  Obviously your a--umption of carelessness or incorrect numbers is not &quot;the only way&quot; to explain the results.

FAH, I invite you and anyone else here over to Beyond the Boxscore for some quality discussion of the entire list, including the Mets players.  There&#039;s also a link to the best center fielders article and the first base article should be up within the hour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve explained both these issues.  Obviously your a&#8211;umption of carelessness or incorrect numbers is not &#8220;the only way&#8221; to explain the results.</p>
<p>FAH, I invite you and anyone else here over to Beyond the Boxscore for some quality discussion of the entire list, including the Mets players.  There&#8217;s also a link to the best center fielders article and the first base article should be up within the hour.</p>
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		<title>By: skyking162</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-375968</link>
		<dc:creator>skyking162</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-375968</guid>
		<description>or maybe his name is &quot;Phil&quot; -- ever thought of that?  philkid posts at many sites and is a smart guy.  not a troll.  not sure how someone who posted a bunch of intelligent comments here could be mistaken as a troll anyways, but whatever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>or maybe his name is &#8220;Phil&#8221; &#8212; ever thought of that?  philkid posts at many sites and is a smart guy.  not a troll.  not sure how someone who posted a bunch of intelligent comments here could be mistaken as a troll anyways, but whatever.</p>
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		<title>By: skyking162</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-375966</link>
		<dc:creator>skyking162</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-375966</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t post that link, evidently.  If you google &quot;hardball times is the AL really better&quot; it&#039;s the first result.  Again, that&#039;s just an example of the quality of the work done to explain the AL&#039;s advantage over the NL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t post that link, evidently.  If you google &#8220;hardball times is the AL really better&#8221; it&#8217;s the first result.  Again, that&#8217;s just an example of the quality of the work done to explain the AL&#8217;s advantage over the NL.</p>
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		<title>By: skyking162</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-375963</link>
		<dc:creator>skyking162</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-375963</guid>
		<description>2. Ok, I didn&#039;t actually look at the numbers.  My other guess is that you&#039;re not looking at out-of-zone plays, which are added to in-zone plays to compute a modified version of RZR.  Yup, Castillo had 16 OOZ plays while Easley only had 4.  That puts Castillo ahead.

3. Justin uses THT&#039;s position cla-sifications.  I a--umed they went by most innings played, but I&#039;m not sure.  Ok -- Gomez actually played in more GAMES at third base, but played more innings at second base.  THT must go by games played.

As for Lopez, he played for both the Nationals and Cardinals.  His overall rating is a combination of the two.  Justin lists him twice and I&#039;ve combined the two stints into one listing.

4. My system does not overrate defense.  &lt;b&gt;And it&#039;s at this point that I&#039;m going to ask that you read through the methodology articles, because it&#039;s all laid out for you.&lt;/b&gt;  I&#039;ve already given you an article for linear weights, which is what&#039;s used for offense -- my ratings don&#039;t overrate OBP or any other stat, because the proper, park-adjusted rates are used for every single individual event (singles, doubles, GIDPs, CS, HRs, HBP, etc.)  Please know what you&#039;re talking about before criticizing.

5. You quoted some RZR numbers for Gomez and Durham.  Remember, I&#039;m including OOZ plays and also using STATS&#039; zone rating, not just RZR (BIS&#039; zone rating).

6. LoDuca vs. Easley: Lo Duca is a catcher and therefore gets more credit for his position than Easley.  In other words, he&#039;s allowed to be worse at the plate because catchers in general hit worse than second basemen.

He also only had 190 plate appearances compared to Easley&#039;s 350.  When you&#039;re performing below replacement-level, the extra playing time hurts your value.  What would you rather have, a really bad player for 190 PAs plus the rest from someone a bit better or a really bad player for  350 plate appearances plus someone a bit better for the rest?  Obviously you&#039;d go with the first, which gives you LoDuca.  Had LoDuca been given 200 more PAs and played at the same level, he would have been less productive than Easley.

As for LoDuca&#039;s defense, catchers are rated by SB/CS and preventing PB/WP.  Lo Duca allowed only one pa-sed ball.  And while an 18/2 SB/CS rate isn&#039;t good, it&#039;s only 18 SB!  How much could those hurt?  At .17 runs per SB (linear weights, read about it), Lo Duca&#039;s 14 net SBs allowed were worth less than three runs against his team.

10 (or whatever): I&#039;d appreciate if you took back the comments about Justin being careless.  Just because you don&#039;t fully understand what&#039;s going on doesn&#039;t mean he&#039;s messed something up.  Again, please read the methodology before making a--umptions about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2. Ok, I didn&#8217;t actually look at the numbers.  My other guess is that you&#8217;re not looking at out-of-zone plays, which are added to in-zone plays to compute a modified version of RZR.  Yup, Castillo had 16 OOZ plays while Easley only had 4.  That puts Castillo ahead.</p>
<p>3. Justin uses THT&#8217;s position cla-sifications.  I a&#8211;umed they went by most innings played, but I&#8217;m not sure.  Ok &#8212; Gomez actually played in more GAMES at third base, but played more innings at second base.  THT must go by games played.</p>
<p>As for Lopez, he played for both the Nationals and Cardinals.  His overall rating is a combination of the two.  Justin lists him twice and I&#8217;ve combined the two stints into one listing.</p>
<p>4. My system does not overrate defense.  <b>And it&#8217;s at this point that I&#8217;m going to ask that you read through the methodology articles, because it&#8217;s all laid out for you.</b>  I&#8217;ve already given you an article for linear weights, which is what&#8217;s used for offense &#8212; my ratings don&#8217;t overrate OBP or any other stat, because the proper, park-adjusted rates are used for every single individual event (singles, doubles, GIDPs, CS, HRs, HBP, etc.)  Please know what you&#8217;re talking about before criticizing.</p>
<p>5. You quoted some RZR numbers for Gomez and Durham.  Remember, I&#8217;m including OOZ plays and also using STATS&#8217; zone rating, not just RZR (BIS&#8217; zone rating).</p>
<p>6. LoDuca vs. Easley: Lo Duca is a catcher and therefore gets more credit for his position than Easley.  In other words, he&#8217;s allowed to be worse at the plate because catchers in general hit worse than second basemen.</p>
<p>He also only had 190 plate appearances compared to Easley&#8217;s 350.  When you&#8217;re performing below replacement-level, the extra playing time hurts your value.  What would you rather have, a really bad player for 190 PAs plus the rest from someone a bit better or a really bad player for  350 plate appearances plus someone a bit better for the rest?  Obviously you&#8217;d go with the first, which gives you LoDuca.  Had LoDuca been given 200 more PAs and played at the same level, he would have been less productive than Easley.</p>
<p>As for LoDuca&#8217;s defense, catchers are rated by SB/CS and preventing PB/WP.  Lo Duca allowed only one pa-sed ball.  And while an 18/2 SB/CS rate isn&#8217;t good, it&#8217;s only 18 SB!  How much could those hurt?  At .17 runs per SB (linear weights, read about it), Lo Duca&#8217;s 14 net SBs allowed were worth less than three runs against his team.</p>
<p>10 (or whatever): I&#8217;d appreciate if you took back the comments about Justin being careless.  Just because you don&#8217;t fully understand what&#8217;s going on doesn&#8217;t mean he&#8217;s messed something up.  Again, please read the methodology before making a&#8211;umptions about it.</p>
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		<title>By: skyking162</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-375960</link>
		<dc:creator>skyking162</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/21/stat-mets-have-not-good-second-basemen/#comment-375960</guid>
		<description>1. By &quot;a--umption&quot; I don&#039;t mean I pulled it out of thin air.  I just mean that I didn&#039;t run the study myself and instead used the conclusions of people I trust.  And it&#039;s not &quot;anecdotal&quot; evidence.  There were REAL studies done correcting for everything that can be thought of, including everything you worried about in your response.  It&#039;s not perfect, but I&#039;m confident it&#039;s way more accurate than a--uming equal pitching talent between leagues.  Here&#039;s an example of the thoughtfulness put in:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. By &#8220;a&#8211;umption&#8221; I don&#8217;t mean I pulled it out of thin air.  I just mean that I didn&#8217;t run the study myself and instead used the conclusions of people I trust.  And it&#8217;s not &#8220;anecdotal&#8221; evidence.  There were REAL studies done correcting for everything that can be thought of, including everything you worried about in your response.  It&#8217;s not perfect, but I&#8217;m confident it&#8217;s way more accurate than a&#8211;uming equal pitching talent between leagues.  Here&#8217;s an example of the thoughtfulness put in:</p>
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