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Marty Noble reports for MLB.com that the Mets will likely keep Howard Johnson and Dan Warthen on the coaching staff in 2009.
Noble writes:
“The club has all but decided to retain the respective pitching and hitting coaches, and it is inclined to bring back another incumbent, Sandy Alomar Sr., who served as Manuel’s bench coach.”
…it’s so hard for me as an observer to gauge how proficient these coaches are…the only one i can come close to evaluating is luis aguayo who seemed trigger-happy at third base…that being said, i place the responsibility of the bullpen woes squarely on the pitchers themselves and don’t blame warthen too much for their breakdown last season…
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that’s fine. it’s not about the coaches. omar needs to add a little grit and get rid of the castillo, no-show, and heilman along with not (obviously) resigning pedro and alou
i hope the rays sweep the phils. crush them.
Agreed. On both points.
Not to be cruel, but it was somewhat satisfactory to see and hear about how utterly devastated Hojo was after the loss and during the Shea Stadium closing ceremonies. We need guys that care. It didn’t hurt him that we had the 2nd-highest scoring offense in the league, either…
Rays in 5.
Quick, someone send Aguayo home!
I hope Aguayo gets the boot and Oberkfell gets promoted to 3B coach.
I vote for Wally B. at third base..
Not a bad choice at all.
You only hear people complain about 3B coaches when they make the 3-5 bad decisions per season.
howz about we sign “wave em home willie” as the third base coach – u know let him earn the rest of that 2 million dollar contract :P
You cannot blame Warthen for the bullpen implosion since the exact same thing happened the year before when he wasn’t with the team.
I like Hojo as a member of the 86 team, but I’m not sure he’s anything special as a hitting coach.
Aguayo has to go.
how is howard johnson keeping his job.
the mets situational hitting has been pathetic since Johnson took over for Rick Down.
if his name wasn’t Howard Johnson he would have been fired along with Randolph and co.
Mets did average 5.0 runs/game, which is above league average.
There is definitely an issue with scoring runs late int the game that should be addressed. But I think that has more to do with the bottom half of the lineup rather than the hitting coach.
Nah, it means the players are good, but aren’t executing when needed. plan at the plate, proper bunting, driving the ball, hitting the other way, whatever needs to be done. A plan would help them relax at the plate and focus.
Hitting coaches are a useless position.
so is a superfluous third nipple :P
Why keep all these losers? Cause thats what they are folks, losers. We lost this year…no kudos for doing so well after they took over…NO.
They had a 3+ game lead and blew it AGAIN. Now we keep all the loser coaches and probably most of the loser players and expect something different to happen? Please.
i agree. let’s get scott brosius in a mets uniform.
i’d like to see jow mcewing as third base coach
You know, defining people as losers is just myopic. this is not meant to be a defense of anyone, but by this logic the Rays are all losers (except Longoria and Price). Upton was there last year and they were awful. Upton is a loser. Kazmir was there last year and they lost. Kazmir is a loser.
Or how about the Phillies? If everyone who lost last year was a loser — because they lost so badly in the first round — then Utley is a loser, Howard is a loser, Rollins is a loser, Victorino is a loser.
One person never makes the team win or lose. Never. So to call the coaches losers is ridiculous. Analyze who is good and who is bad using some real information and then determine who is worth bringing back and who is not.
Yaz never won a WS: loser. Ernie Banks never won a WS: loser. Piazza: loser.
It’s just short sighted and small minded.
good post. 100% agreement.
agreed . now does that make prince feilder a big fat loser?
I agree Tidewater, fine post.
And Rusty, I think the fact that Fielder acts like a prima donna and criticizes/attacks teammates when he is not disciplined enough to lose the 30 or more extra pounds he carries, which clearly puts him at a disadvantage at the plate, in the field, and waddling around the bases, is what makes him a big fat loser in my book.
Joliet Jake could run circles around him with one hand cuffed behind his back, while eating four fried chickens with the other hand.
prince makes robinson cancel look svelte :P plus joliet jake could snort up the first baseline faster than price could run up it :P
very good post Tidewater
I agree – good post, Tidewater – but then explain why everyone finds it so easy to call Castillo and Willie “losers”? Guess the definition fits only when you want it to fit.
They probably help his point. Willie has won almost everywhere he’s been yet his time with the Mets didn’t magically turn them into winners. Castillo won a world series but he’s not helping the Mets win here.
Ellen:
People shouldn’t call them losers. But that’s not to say that everybody’s good. I don’t think Willie is a loser, but it sure appeared to many that he was not getting the most out this team. Maybe he’d be a better manager with another team, maybe he’s just not a good manager. And Castillo isn’t good, at least not right now.
My complaint here isn’t that all players are good, it’s that people paint individuals as losers or winners based on what their teams have done. Ted Williams is not a “loser” simply because the Red Sox were not champions all those years.
I do agree with you, Tidewater. I was just trying to point out (not to you because I believe you “get it”) that your argument was good and that a team’s success is never based on any one member’s performance. I agree – Castillo is not performing well at all this year but for some to say he was the main cause of this year’s failures is utterly ridiculous. To me, this year’s collapse was a team effort.
But again, I was agreeing with your sentiment.
I don’t think any pitching coach could’ve helped that bullpen!!
i don’t buy that if one guy has a funk then everybody falls into that misery loves company b.s gina – i’m sorry guys like Smith and Ayala for the most part and i stress for the most part were solid that goes for knight also
unbelievable … we choke out the same exact way we did last year and everyone gets retained just like last year too… clueless franchise.
sigh. just…sigh. do you really think the coaching staff contributed to the mets not winning the division that much? oh, you do? i’m sorry you don’t have a clue how professional baseball works.
oh, forgive my naivete… i thought coaching staffs had more than zero effect on how a team performs, the environment surrounding a team, its approach to the game… i didn’t realize that it makes no difference who is put in a position of authority over the course of six months … i also would like to thank all the people on this site who’ve educated me on how a GM actually doesn’t have the responsibility of constructed a ball clubs personnel.
Get with the program! You are not a real fan if you believe that anyone other than Heilman and Castillo contributed to the dreadful performance of the team!
you really think a hitting coach is going to change a guy’s approach to hitting? please, these guys got to the majors hitting a certain way, some coach isn’t going to change their approach. i know i wouldn’t change mine if i’d been hitting a certain way for almost 20 years (longer than that for the veterans). the players barely need coaching at this level of baseball. in the minors…sure, it may make a difference. not in the majors.
hey fiya and flight go get a room
Flight–
Who should be our coaches next year and why?
blue lou marini and da col steve cropper !!! honestly i’d like to see mookie back at first or maybe alfonso – edgardo could teach murph and the magic tones to feild second and id be happy with oberkfell at third – JUST NO MIKE CUBBAGE ! ! !!! (my sister and me always blamed him for those teams in the early 90’s we called it the curse of mike cubbage lol)
That was no worse than in the 70s when the Mets would always blow a game right after Rube Walker waddled to the mound. He was far worse than Cubbage.
But thanks to the above posting, now I realize I was completely wrong to ever blame a coach!
Funny, on prior years when coaches were bad and fired midseason, and a new bunch of coaches arrived and the team responded. Guess they get no credit either?
Of course the coaches have an effect on the team. I don’t think MLB give out meaningless positions to so many.
While I agree that a hitting coach will not change a ML hitter approach completely, he will observe and watch for inconsistency and help detail game plans. In that regard, I think HoJo was a failure.
As with others, I believe HoJo was a great Met. He just did not get the results we needed as a hitting coach.
Do I think we need change at that position? Yes!!!!
see above post by Tidewater…
situational hitting is mostly a product of luck so you can’t pin that on hojo. bottomline, the mets score a lot of runs so he stays.
as far as aguayo, i don’t know if i’d call him “trigger-happy” as much as i’d say he was just downright bad. when he needed to hold them, he sent, when he needed to send them, he held. he has to go.
if the Coach cant even help the slightest bit then what is the purpose of the coach
im talking about the bullpen.
shouldnt the coach be able to detect errors?
Help the pitcher adjust?
Teach something?
if it was one rotten egg out of the pen, fine.
but it was the Whole pen that smelt of rotten eggs
Shouldnt the chicken teach these eggs not to smell?
or the chicken stinks?
it’s not that easy. scott schoeneweis could learn everything about johan santana’s delivery/motion/mechanics and he still wouldn’t be as good as johan, simply because he lacks the talent. coaching can’t get you beyond your talent.
Luis Aguayo is a solid coach and skillful tactician at third base.
Who should be our third base coach and why? Who are some of your favorite thrid base coaches and why?
I always liked Cookie Rojas
stop replying to that tool. he’s another worthless troll.
metsftw if fiya flight and furi did’t have hard-on they wouldn’t have a friend :P
I love how anyone not in lockstep with guys like metsftw are considered “trolls”. Group-think is harmful to your health.
i;m not in lockstep i just know a tool when i read one
LOL
btw guys i posted this early this a.m your toughts comments??? i don’t know if there are many bloom county, or opus fans still out there but it looks like this sunday will be the last comic strip just wanted to let ya’s know since i always thought opus the penguin was a mets fan
when jerry manuel gave his last press conference he talked about a SS that was the key to the fundamental of the white sox-that player was jose valentin- do you think he might hire him as a coach???
Actually, based on what you say, and based on Valentin’s production and apparent influence in 2006, if he is 100% sure he is done playing, this is probably the best idea on this thread.
You dont blame warthen?why not? everyone blamed peterson? ?
Hey I was wondering if anyone knew how i could get in contact with Cerrone. I know there used to be the email box on the left that is no longer there. I have a question about the Mets strength trainers that I was wondering if he could help me with. thanks for the help
Try clicking on the ‘contact’ under ‘what is metsblog.com’
I think ya gotta get rid of HoJo. Since Down left the offense can’t hit when it counts. At least try somebody else. I like HoJo as a player and a person but he’s still got too much ‘Willie baggage’ to continue with this team as their hitting coach. While the offensive numbers may have looked okay, remember that most of those stats came prior to the 4th inning. If they are truly going to make some changes then he should go. I think they should bring back Rick Down!
Warthen I like. He seemed to connect with the pitchers and the starters seemed to improve under his tutelage after the departure of the guru.
Lets go Rays!! From worst to best,like the 69 Mets.
Kazmir looks great in his Rays cap, with the WS logo on the side going against the NL Champion Phillies
Floyd might have a good series too….but Bradford could definitely shut us down…
Choke much Mutts fans???
LETS GO PHILS!!!!
No wonder Wall Street is in shambles they let Phillies fans work there.
remember trading places slappy remember trading places
2-0…damn
CUE UP THE ROCKY THEME!!!
BOO-YAHH
You are on a Mets blog while your team plays in the World Series. That is truly pathetic.
Why aren’t on cheering for the Phils on a Phillies blog with your kin?
Must be nice knowing the greatest sports hero in your city’s history is a fictional character invented by a guy from New York.
That’s a damn good one Zeile!
The WS patch looks good on the Phillies cap too
Do you ever get back to that cesspool of a city? I always saw it as a prime example of why left-wing politics never work.
Jesus Christ, your team is playing in the World Series right now and you’re hanging out in a thread asking if the Mets’ should fire their hitting coach? Uhh, obsess much????
Hah, what a loser. :D
yeah, you should get one tatooed to your behind….for all your little friends to see!
hey fiya we finally agree on something lol
I liked Warthen and Ken at first. I don’t think HoJo is that great though, yes they scored runs but they were an incredibly undisciplined team at the plate which ended up hurting them.
Philly Fan on Wall St.= typical loser phillies fan jumping on the bandwagon once the phils are in the playoffs
Well Rollins did call the Phillies “fans” front runners, right?
and the front running “fans” booed him all through their losing streak
There is no way in hell he could possibly be a Phillies fan. No self-respecting Phils fan would even waste their time in a ‘Mets hitting coach’ thread while their team is in the playoffs. Would any of you be wasting your time talking about Rich Dubee while the Mets were in the WS? No way in hell.
I think this guy exposed himself as a Met fan tonight.
i wonder if rich was a founding member of the doobie bros :P
NYC > Philly…..in every possible category.
There is not one area that NYC is below Philly. Not one.
bedstuy?
A certain area of the Bronx where they play baseball?
park hill in s.i?
could scott kazmir be any more overrated? the guy is not that good.
yeah he is definately overrated, but let me just say this. I’d rather have Kazmir than what’s his name Zambrano who? haha
of course……but still, kazmir was going going to be in the league of johan, halladay, oswalt, or sabathia……
Yeah, but he is 24 and until this year has played for horrible teams…..he has accomplished infinitely more than Johan or Halladay at that age and compares very favorably to CC at age 24. Only Halladay was better by age 24.
Oops, meant only Oswalt was clearly better at 24….
joliet jake was incarcerated at the age of 24 just hope murph and the magic tones will be our 2b man at that age
LOL……well, I certainly hope Dan Guitar Murphy is the man at age 24!
does that make steven knight the “col”? i’d like to see jose do the funky chicken :P
I think Jose is clearly the Reverend Cleophus of this team, no??
does that make jimmy rollins the carrie fisher role and ryan howard the john candy role? btw i thinki can imagine chase saying ” both types of music country and western!”
I can DEFINITELY see Utley saying that! I guess Victorino would be the lead singer of the Good Ole Boys who drives the Winnebago, and Pat Burrell seems just dumb enough to be Bob of Bob’s Country Bunker….
zambrano made steve “trash”el” look like an ace
its actually kind of funny seeing the phils in the world series, b/c we trashed them so badly this year i just think they are a joke that had the easiest path to the series in years.
more choco they said the same thing about us in 2000
You know I can understand a little trash talking between Mets/Phillies fans on the blogs during the season, and especially when they teams are playing each other. But for a person to come on here when his/her team is actually playing in the World Series, well that is just sad.
you must have missed it throughout the season when he came on too
pathetic human being
are you howie’s father?
i don’t either trust or listen to anyone that eats scrapple abd boo’s santa claus
any one know how vargas is doin in the afl?
pretty good i think
God, Joe Buck is just abysmal to listen to. He makes the World Series sound as if it were as important as a little league scrimmage. Perfect example of riding daddy’s coat tails.
im afraid to ask what the score is
3-2 phils
still gotta chance guys bow yer head in a moment of silence for the departed tug mcgraw and the scream YA GOTTA BELIEEEEEVE !@!!!!
bring back hojo? why not i mean cleary its not his fault some of the mets didnt get clutch hits but ya mad dumb 2 relize when david wright was slackin he went 2 hojo and they met up early b4 batting paratice and paratice the whole day and david got better hojo isnt suppose 2 bring miracles and promise clutch homerun hits hes there 2 help and improve and the batters gotta do there part….don mattingly says manny works on his swing all day very hard by himself and gave the other kids on the dodgers sum tips u dont need ur hitting coach 2 do all the work for u its mainly on ur own i mean hitting is something u gotta be known 2 do b4 u reach the majors anyways duhhh lmfao lets go mets 09 k rod baby!!!!!
I don’t know, shouldn’t we be routing for the NL team?
In many cases I would be, but I think we should be rooting for Kazmir, Bradford, Wheeler, Cliff, and hitting coach Steve Henderson, who lost by 1 damn vote to Andre Dawson for Rookie of the Year in 1977…I still think he should have demanded a recount.
hendu batted 305 in 77 – he deserved roy
kingmanblue lou marini and da col steve cropper as possible options for 3b coach!!! honestly i’d like to see mookie back at first or maybe alfonso – edgardo could teach murph and the magic tones to feild second and id be happy with oberkfell at third – JUST NO MIKE CUBBAGE ! ! !!! (my sister and me always blamed him for those teams in the early 90’s we called it the curse of mike cubbage lol)
(Comments wont nest below this level)
I would love to see Mookie back on the field at 1st, and if Sam Perlozzo isn’t available, then Rev Cleophus at 3rd would be perfect to wave his arms wildly and scream and make everyone see the light…..
Yeah, I liked Cliff. The NL gets dissed a lot though. So, it’s a win-win (within the parameters of a rival instead of our team being there.)
Generally I do agree, and am definitely an NL fan…if it was the Yanks or Red Sox, or any team without a sizeable Met contingent, I would surely be rooting for the NL.
I followed Kazmir totally in the minors, and it is not his fault that we gave him away in such idiotic fashion. And I’d love to see Cliff win it all, and Henderson too.
The young core some people would like to break up ranks high with analyst Bill James, who ranks David Wright fourth and Jose Reyes ninth in his list of the top major leaguers under 30 years old in his book, “Young Talent Inventory.”
Here’s James’ top 25:
1. Prince Fielder, Milwaukee Brewers first baseman, age 24
2. Hanley Ramirez, Florida Marlins shortstop, age 24
3. Tim Lincecum, San Francisco Giants pitcher, age 24
4. David Wright, New York Mets third baseman, age 25
5. Ryan Braun, Milwaukee Brewers left fielder, age 24
6. Dustin Pedroia, Boston Red Sox second baseman, age 24
7. Matt Kemp, Los Angeles Dodgers center fielder, age 23
8. Francisco Rodriguez, Los Angeles Angels pitcher, age 26
9. Jose Reyes, New York Mets shortstop, age 25
10. Nick Markakis, Baltimore Orioles right fielder, age 24
interesting, no kazmir. no hamels. no papelbon. no joba. no longoria. hmmmm.
here’s the rest of his top 25
11. Joakim Soria, Kansas City Royals pitcher, age 24
12. R. Zimmerman, Washington Nationals third, age 23
13. Cole Hamels, Philadelphia Phillies pitcher, age 24
14. Troy Tulowitzki, Colorado Rockies shortstop, age 23
15. Felix Hernandez, Seattle Mariners pitcher, age 22
16. Jon Lester, Boston Red Sox pitcher, age 24
17. Evan Longoria, Tampa Bay Rays third, age 22
18. John Danks, Chicago White Sox pitcher, age 23
19. Adrian Gonzalez, San Diego Padres first, age 26
20. James Loney, Los Angeles Dodgers first, age 24
21. Stephen Drew, Arizona Diamondbacks short, age 25
22. Brian McCann, Atlanta Braves catcher, age 24
23. Miguel Cabrera, Detroit Tigers first baseman, age 25
24. Grady Sizemore, Cleveland Indians center, age 25
25. Joey Votto, Cincinnati Reds first baseman, age 24
probably should’ve waited until the rest of the list was posted. just saying.
Very interesting….Thanks for posting this…I sure would take Wright or Reyes (or Lincecum) over Fielder though…and Wright and Reyes’ extremely good contracts make them even more valuable.
yea but fielder hits long homeruns. who cares that he is obese, not a great fielder (no pun intended).
yeah, all he does is hit long home runs. he doesn’t have a career .900 OPS or anything.
yeah i’m not sure why fielder is 1st…he’s a very good hitter no doubt…but he’s a 1st baseman..
Worst umpiring of a World Series game I have ever seen. I wonder how much Tim Welke got paid to call it for the Phils.
This strike zone is all over the place.
Wally Backman should be the third base coach and teach this team some situational hitting along the way.
Wow, that is an interesting idea, and a way for Backman to ease his way back to being considered as a manager, and Toddniem up above suggested Jose Valentin as a coach and he played for Jerry in Chicago and seemed to be a great influence in 2006.
I think you guys have solved it—Valentin as 1st base coach and Backman as 3rd base coach.
NOW we are getting somewhere!
Nice rendition of God Bless America.
100 pitches for Hamels through 7. Does he come back in this 3-2 game?
the umpires deserve to get fired. the non balk call, the abysmal strike zone…….it’s the world series. i hope these guys realize they look like they are being paid off.
I don’t think it was a balk.
It’s been a well-pitched game though.
Phillies had chances but couldn’t convert.
what you think doesn’t matter. the reality is it was a balk. the reality is, the strikezone is all over the place. the reality is these umpires need to do better.
Whatever.
Let’s see if the Phillies’ pen can hold the lead.
The Rays’ guys have been good.
bartlett swung himself out of that at bat.
another bad call
96 mph.
thanks umpires for ruining this game!
Nice pitching by Madsen.
u r a phils fan obviously. how much did your city save up to pay off the umps?
Dear God:
Two years of collapses and now the Phils winning a W.S.? Why the hate?
Long way to go MoreChoco…..we were down 2–0 in 86….
rain on sunday will likely push the game back, and hamels will get an extra start. god is a loser.
Big strikeout there.
I’ve decided just to be a fan of the game and not root for either team. It is what it is.
Rays get one more chance.
I bet Lidge blows it
If the Phils win th world series, you think Omar and wilpon will care?If they do I will hate both of them so much.
make Jose Valentin one of the mets coaches if he fails to make a comeback in the 2009 spring training.
3-2. Coulda been more.
maybe a casino in las vegas told the umps they had to help the phillies bc they couldnt afford to pay off the 1000000:1 odds they set for the rays to win it all.
What’s with all those cow bells?
Are there any met fans here sort of feeling like rooting for the phillies? If they win at least the National league wins so I wouldn’t feel that bad. It’ll only be their 2nd championship in over 100 years i think. I still wish the Red Sox would’ve been playing, they seem more exciting to watch in my opinion because of their comebacks. They got the same never give up attitude like the Phillies so it would’ve been a better series. After all, it would’ve been the biggest rivals from both NY teams competing for the championship.
Mets fans: Stop obsessing about the Phillies. If you can watch the World Series as a Baseball fan and not a Mets fan, go ahead and watch, otherwise just turn it off.
Phillies fans: Stop obsessing about the Mets. Your team won game 1 and your on a mets blog? WTF?! The series isn’t over yet, 3 more wins are needed.
i wouldn’t say most mets fans are OBSESSING about the phillies….we are on here showing the fact we want the Phillies to lose..and i’m sure they’d do the same when we are in the series…
I watch it as a baseball fan, but just very much want the phillies to lose..nothing wrong w/ that….in virtually every game I watch..I have a favorite
I do agree with the philly fan argument though, the trolling is pathetic..
I want the Phillies to lose, but I won’t be heartbroken if they win. I watched half the game last night and then turned it off.
Is there any hitter on the Mets who did not get significantly worse the day Hojo took over for Down?
I love Hojo, as a player, maybe as a 3rd base coach, but the guy has no business being the hitting coach anymore, if managers can be fired because of their players performance, how can you justify keeping a hittinc coach that had every single hitter underperform, with this lineup, only one guy hitting 300, terrible.
Warthen gets to stay because he showed what he can do with Ollie, and to some extent, Pelfrey
Warthen did seem to have positive effect on Ollie, Pelf, and maybe Smith. Johan is just good, no matter who is coaching him. But IMO, I think some of the others did not flourish as much under Warthen. Show, Duaner, Heilman and maybe even Maine might have done better under the Jacket. But it is all speculative at this point.
Heres hoping Jerry will be allowed to replace Omars
spy and get a 3B coach who actually knows his players
speed,base running ability and the arms of the opposition players.
How come Guy Conti is never blamed for the bullpen woes?
well, since you are such a pathetic fan…. lets see….you want to show different quotes? how bout this one?
“When you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you’re getting your @$$ hammered by guys — there’s no better feeling than to have that done.” – Matt Stairs Philadelphia Philly
And are you SERIOUSLY counting playoff wins in that equation? That is so pathetic…