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In a report for the Daily News, Bill Madden quotes Phillies GM Pat Gillick as saying:
“If you want to know the best thing we had going for us this year, it was the fact that all the other teams in our division hated the Mets’ guts. It started with Atlanta and all the hostility they had with the Mets through the years. Then Fredi Gonzalez left Bobby Cox to manage the Marlins and he didn’t forget everything that went on between the Braves and Mets. Look what Florida did for us the past two years… Washington doesn’t like them very much either, and all those teams seemed to really get up for the Mets.”
This is the same irrational idea that we heard on the final weekend of 2007, when print journalists and talk-show hosts said, ‘Lastings Milledge woke up the Marlins.’ As if Florida had been a great team all season, but 
had been sleep walking and losing, and needed Milledge to wake them up in order for them to realize their potential. Give me a break?
Correct me if I am wrong, but the 1986 Mets won a World Series, not Miss Congeniality, right?
So, does this mean the Mets can now only win if teams love them? What does that even mean?
Seriously, who cares if teams hate the Mets?
Hey, how about the Mets just play better baseball and win on their own effort, and not spend time worrying about what other people think of them. How about that? How about, instead of backing down, the Mets fight back.
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that’s funny … ya know, i’d love to be hated if we could win …
which made 1986 all the more sweeter
Along with the champagne……..just ask Willie
you making this post, matt, is just a reflection of the fact that you and the mets do care what other teams think of them. if you don’t think it’s such a big deal then don’t make it one by giving all the idiots on this website nonsense to argue about
What’s funny to me is that we hate the Mets too.
ha ha ha
After being present at the last game vs. the Marlins in 2007 & 2008, they can’t POSSIBLY hate the Mets as much as I hate the Marlins!
You are 100% right in that the answer is for the Mets to play better baseball. However the fact is that the Phils had a much better record against the Braves,Nats and Fish combined than the Mets did.Is that because those teams hated the mets and p[layed harder or because we didn’t play well? It really doesn’t which it was to me but it is a fact.
That’s not really accurate. The Phillies CRUSHED the Braves and the Mets struggled with them.
The Mets had better records against the Nats and Marlins than the Phillies did.
The Braves didn’t win a single home game against the Phils, while they won all but 1 against the Mets
I think what he means is that the other teams in the NL East took great pride and loved beating the METS more than the Phillies. I would not put it past the Braves or Marlins to NOT play as hard or make that extra effort against the Phillies that they would against the METS. I did hear one of the BRaves players say something like that. But, if the METS had a sack at all, this would all be taken care of on the field. They let these other last place teams kick them around and beat them. They deserve it, until they pull there heads out of that deep dark hole between there legs. Dont settle for anything less than 2 out of three against these teams and go for the throat. Dont let them get in a position to knock you out of the playoffs during the last week. Lets wake up and play good baseball from the start so it dont come down to the last day, for the third year straight.
Matt, seriously, you take a quote from someone not on the Mets, has nothing to do with the Mets, and you turn it around like its some excuse for the Mets. What exactly are you missing here? Is this idea that hard to understand? Is it also that hard to understand that it also could have nothing to do with anything? This isn’t Omar saying this, its Pat Gillick.
how does a quote that talks directly about the Mets have nothing to do with the mets?
exactly, matt: boo hoo, they hate us. so get up and bust them in the ribs. let’s make them hate us even more.
unfortunately, the mets are as soft a team as they come
it’s is huge for a sitting gm to give that kind of quote.
a sitting gm who’s maybe retiring this season…
I don’t mind being hated…but time and time again we back down from it. Look at the Rays this year and they have alot in common with the 86 mets. They got into a number of fights this season, even in spring training. They didn’t take crap from anyone and fought back not to mention also payed great baseball…maybe theres a link there…maybe the idea of coming together to defend your team can provide the unity needed to fight through the tough struggling times.
the 2007, 2008 mets are a bunch of pus sies and i can’t stand it.
Well put starz. This team lacked backbone. This team will continue to lack backbone until they part ways with a large number of players and coaches. We are going to see most of the same people back next year and most likely will see most of the same results from last year as well.
the team lacked backbone or a freakin bullpen who was able to get somebody out?
The New York Mets have “NO… MAARRBLEES” –> movie reference anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
I have often said in the past couple of years that the mets just need to get into one serious brawl… just throw a couple punches, take a couple hits and show everyone including your team mates and fans that you are a part of this team and will do whatever it takes to stand up for the unity that it represents… but no, not this team… in other words, yes I agree with you, the mets are a bunch of ******* and i can’t stand it either…
Major League 2
You win!
The idea that getting into one fight would prove anything, or make this team play any better is quite simply retarded.
Sorry, but it’s the truth.
no its not. Its the idea of coming together…bringing your team together…its the idea that we wont back down from anyone…and that can be translated into we can come back from this deficit or lead. nobody can hold us down. its that aggressive mindset that sparks confidence not worry or second-guessing.
You must have missed what its done for the rays or 86 mets or 04 sox?
im going to have to agree with adro. i want the mets to win games not get in fights.. its not hockey
if you need a fight to get motivated to play harder then you are obviously in the league for money and not the championships
its not “retarded”… you here about things like that all the time, when something dynamic like a fight happens, it brings a team together… especially if its against a rival… playng with a chip on your shoulder (other than the dissapointment that was 07 and 08) makes a team play harder and with more heart.
But I guess we have to agree to disagree…
I know one thing, getting into a fight wouldnt do any harm, other than a couple games suspension for a few guys, soo since nothing anyone is doing is helping, i say give it a whirl
Brawl?? Ha. With who? Beltran? Luis Castillo? Reyes? Delgado? These guys have no heart and you think they can brawl? Bawl, maybe. Brawl, not so much.
Wow, everyone you named is a Latino.
Well done.
I guess thats my point, nobody on the team has the cojones to step up to the plate, no pun intended…
Although, i have visions of D-rex throwing a couple fists with dropkicks emanating from Citi Field’s brand new speakers, i bet he could do some damage
whatever, everyone loves a fight, even if it doesn’t bring the team together (which i still think it would)
I’m pretty sure Beltran would kick someone’s a$s if he was pushed too far (or if someone started sh!t with him). He’s a pretty tough dude, and in the rare instances he’s let the stoic mask slip, he’s got dem crazy eyes.
is gillick a moron(I know, dumb question) but is that REALLY the best thing they had going? Not Howard having another great year hr’s wise…not brad lidge having no blown saves???
That’s funny..I was thinking the exact same thing:
Did the Phillies GM just say that the biggest reason his team was successful was because their competition isn’t well-liked? Sounds like a real vote of confidence. And I guess it doesn’t bode well for the Phillies in the series since I don’t believe the Rays have any strong feelings about the Mets.
I’d hope they LOVE the Mets…we handed them their game 1 starter!
I think its more of a shot at the media. The majority of the media pointed to the Mets to win the division before the season and even after Willie was fired. The Phillies were coming off a season with a horrible bullpen and they just acquired a risky closer. The fact that the division beat up on the mets and the phillies are now in the World Series its like hey, screw the mets, we’re the team to beat.
if he did mean that..he could have said something like “the best thing that happened was the distration of…..etc etc”
The media? Yes..the media created some of the hate, but jeez…some Mets fans could not wait to throw the Johan signing in the Phillies fans face. Beltran declares “we are now the team to beat”. The whole year was full of arrogance. Listen, the Phillies GM said a dumb thing, but he is not entirely wrong. More then any other sport, baseball is a mental game. There is such a thing as overachieving based on determination. The Braves, Nats and Marlins were determined to beat the Mets. They were not determined to beat the Phills. It made a huge difference! On the flip side, the current Mets team is not mentally strong enough to handle these teams when they smell blood. Gillick is right…it helped against this particular Mets squad.
So why did the Mets have a better record against the Marlins and Nationals than the Phillies did?
Logic FAIL.
Down the stretch? When it looked like the Mets could take the division?
Yeah, and it was definitely “extra motivated” teams and not a horrible bullpen that did the Mets in.
doesn’t seem like they can beat those Marlins pitchers though. Come on…they were quite fired up, and stated so. Listen….some teams get motivated when they’re hated…not this one. Emotion can carry you a long way. All I’m saying.
No, Gillick is a genius who is going into the Hall of Fame at some point. I would not discount what he says. I wish he was our GM.
agreed, i don’t know why everyone is killing gillick for this quote. i guess matt led with his ignorance about how baseball works, but still, i don’t get it.
The 1986 Mets started the season 20–4 and had the division won by Memorial Day. Comparing the 2007–2008 teams to them, in any manner, is more than a bit of a stretch.
I love Reyes, but his behavior is childish and ridiculous with the asinine celebrations, and after losing the way we have two years in a row, every other team (especially the Phillies) SHOULD be mocking Jose and his childish behavior.
Let’s start the dugout dances when we are in first place by 10 games next year.
I agree, this team needs to get serious and focus on 1 goal WINNING!
Thank you…and I did love the curtain calls in the 80s, but those teams were as far from chokers as could ever be imagined.
yea but kingman its not only reyes that does celebratory things.. i would adv you to look at
victorino
hanley
dukes
the only team that doesnt have a player that comes to mind right away would be the bravesi
you have to win before you celebrate, and this team celebrates before winning, time to get serious and win a thing. then you celebrate as much as you want.
Dirty—I only watch the Mets on a regular basis so I don’t know what the others do every day, but I am not sure that virtually any other player in the game celebrates as regularly–and as childishly–as Reyes does with the silly dugout dances, which, if they were forced to tell the truth, probably embarra*s his teammates too. This group shouldn’t act that way after the last two years, in my opinion.
And Victorino has been in the postseason two years in a row.
Victorino got to the postseason by himself!
Yeah, smart comment.
So because Victorino’s teammates are better than Reyes’ teammates, he’s allowed to celebrate? Even though Reyes is a better player in every way?
exactly danny. It took the whole philly team to get there(in 2007 however it took a historically epic collapse on the part of the mets to get in). My point is this…we know who hates the mets but my question is why??? Imo the marlins/phillies/nats recently seem to despise the mets or at least its been made more public…if those teams hate the mets because of reyes’s celebratory actions, they themselves have players that do the same thing so i think thats a bit hypocitical. Also its not like the mets have won anything in a while…so really why do these teams hate the mets. I understand the braves because we have ALOT of rivalry history..but why the remaining teams
Danny, you are missing my point, and regardless, it is just my opinion. I think that even if we went 108–54 and won the World Series, Jose’s dances would still look ridiculous. The fact that he does it on a team which has failed to make the playoffs two years in a row, and does it constantly, is just silly in my opinion, and is bush-league nonsense.
And, the curtain calls in the 1980s, and lots of things players do that annoy opponents, are for the fans at least sonewhat. Jose’s dances are 100% self-promotional and for him.
Victorino is as tough and scrappy a player as they come. Implying that he is a flake-ey show-off is absurd.
Of course it is hypocritical, DirtySanchez. Because it’s not about Reyes as much as it is jealousy of the team that plays in NY and has the huge payroll. Reyes is just the scapegoat.
kingman, do you actually think Reyes does what he does out of self-promotion?
No, and even though I obviously do not know him personally, from what I see, I primarily think he does it because he is incredibly immature, selfish, and childish, as he showed by his pounting at Willie in 2007 and by his comical tirade in Jerry’s first game this year, and in other occasions.
And again, NO ONE does this kind of thing as often as Reyes.
I love how when Reyes gets angry, he is pouting and being immature.
But guys like LoDuca are fiery.
It’s nonsense.
I think we should agree to disagree, but again, Lo Duca did not do things virtually EVERY day to anger opponents.
He was fiery in certain situations when he disagreed with something, like an ump’s call.
Jose’s acts are ALWAYS something that show up opponents, and happen on a constant basis.
You’re arguing two different things. The LoDuca example is designed to argue against the fact that Reyes is a “pouter” or “immature”. Sure, he’s an emotional type of player, but so are many players in the league, like LoDuca. Yet when Reyes shows emotion he is petulant and a child, but when David Wright throws a helmet he just cares a bunch.
As for the celebrations, I think you are forgetting that this is a friggin game. This “showing up the other team” stuff is bullcrap. And all these teams have choreographed handshakes these days. They all do. And a bunch of guys clap excitedly after they get hits or point to the sky after good things happen. It ain’t just Reyes.
This is all about the Mets being the team in the NL from big, bad NY and having the highest payroll and every other team being JEALOUS as to all of the attention that the Mets garner. Even though the Mets generally encounter mostly negative attention because they aren’t the yankees and collapse every year.
I am out of time for now, and again, I think we have to agree to disagree, but LoDuca did not act fiery constantly.
Wright does not throw a helmet constantly.
Reyes does his dances almost every day.
You missed the whole point.
As did you, so we agree on something.
Wish I could stay, but gotta go.
But I do respect the opinions of all of us who care, you included Danny.
I don’t mean to jump down your throat but I feel particularly strong about this one. I think Reyes is way too maligned by some of this fan base.
im with danny on this one. Again if the team is emotionless they have no heart, if they express emotion and happyness they are immature and childish. Cant have it both ways. I for one want reyes to keep doin him and if they hate so what. Those teams need to man the f up. Do teams get extra riled up when they play against manny??
Danny, I think what you’re trying to get at is that if Reyes were white, this conversation wouldn’t be taking place — he’d be described as “fiery” and “emotional” like the biggest cry baby to ever play the sport, Paul O’Neill.
BTW, I’m white, so this is not me getting overly sensitive about race — it’s just the way race is perceived/portrayed in sports. (i.e. the white QB is successful b/c he’s intelligent, and reads defenses well… but the black QB is a great athlete, etc.).
White guys like Paul O’Neill get to throw their helmet after every AB, or smash a water cooler with their bat and they just “care too much aboout winning”, but Jose Reyes gets excited about a HR, and he’s a petulant child.
I am white, and I HATE racism, and I think O’Neill was one of the biggest whining idiots to ever play the game, and I am very glad I never had to root for him.
Race has NOTHING to do with this, as far as I am concerned. And I wish I did not have to be frigin working right now.
And I agree with what you say about QBs. McNair and McNabb are/were as smart on the football field as any QB.
Nail on the head, Armando.
And Kingman, I mostly agree with your postings as they make for a good read, but it’s so true that Reyes gets murdered by some people just because he’s having fun out there when TOO MANY of our players are just vanilla. IT’S A GAME! HAVE FUN!
I could see the argument if say MLB instituted a rule where celebrating deducted runs or caused an out for his team, THEN it would make sense saying Jose’s celebrations are a detrement to this team, but that is far from the case.
I understand your argument Kingman, saying that Jose’s dances are silly, especially when they’re not making the playoffs, and that’s fine that you feel that way. My opinion is if we don’t let Jose just ‘be Jose’, we’re missing the playoffs by 7 or 8 games these past two years, forget about the final day.
What was the common theme these past two years over the final 17 games? They played tight. Now imagine you supress that energy that Jose brings throughout the year? He has to stop being himself cause Shane mother f’in Victorino doesn’t like it? Please.
It’s just time this team fights back. Show some damn grit, get into a brawl or two, WIN THE GAMES, and dance the season away. I’d love it.
OK, thanks WeWere, and I definitely appreciate your point of view, I really do. Good points and good argument, especially this:
“if we don’t let Jose just ‘be Jose’, we’re missing the playoffs by 7 or 8 games these past two years”
This may be the best argument against my side of the argument that I could imagine.
The level of conversation on the boards today have been supreme. See, when trolls like Furioso aren’t making “D-Rod is a choker” comments, things can actually be talked about in a decent manner, and learning gets done. Incredible how that works…
I agree SO much with you.
I remember last spring when I was making the argument against Holliday based on a reading of his career home and away splits, and GraveDiggerHebner (one of the very best names on here) pointed out that while my point was true, it was misleading, as Holliday’s home/road splits had lessened pretty much every year, showing that the Coors factor became less important, and that Holliday was truly getting better. This point was awesome, and I really do love to be exposed to other points of view and to learn things as often as humanly possible.
And again, I LOVE Jose, and I watched every single second of him and Wright and everyone else celebrating after clinching in 2006. That was awesome.
Thanks for the comments We Were.
Oops, maybe it was NYP-BOS-NYP who made that Holliday point…damn, cannot remember, but it was one of them. They are both good posters though.
I couldn’t agree more with Kingman 26.
ENOUGH of the stupid dances and choreographed high fives/dance parties.
WIN something first and then celebrate.
Imagine sitting in the opposing dugout and watching Reyes do his stupid dance when he hits a lead off HR – if I was the SP I’d drill him right in the ear hole his next at bat.
ACT like you’ve been there before – WIN SOMETHING first and then celebrate
so if they do win you would be ok with stupid dances and coreographed high five/dance parties?
lets see them win first, then ask that.
No. They need to ‘celebrate’ more. Stick it to them. take no prisoners. Be themselves and not care that they’re hated, that anyone cares about any of this crap at all. Beltran had it right when he told Reyes that early this year, and if they try to ‘tone it down’ next year, they’ll never make it.
Clobber the Phillies, the Marlins, whoever, and flip off their dugout on the way out.
agreed….stop being scared…stop being afraid of success…get some better players in here and lets get them all…because remember payback is a B***h !!!!
Thirded.
Celebrate more. They can’t choreograph enough dances for me.
I think they should start taking curtain calls to RBI groundouts in the 3rd inning, or coaches should start high-fiving guys in the dugout and doing secret handshakes after going out to the mound for a pitching change and stuff like that. It would be HILARIOUS! Be as obnoxious as possible…I know it would never happen but it would be so great to me.
can you imagine the media outcry? how much fun would it be to hear Joe Buck doing a game? “oh that’s just disgusting, that’s just…that’s just, there’s just no place in baseball for that! just disgusting…” I would really, really enjoy that.
this way of thinking severly disappoints me as a baseball fan.
lollll for real ceet. If they dont express emotions they are “lifeless/no heart” if they express joy and happyness they are “immature/childish”. I agree ceet they should be themselves. Lets reyes do a merengue dance on home plate dammit…im not one that pays to much attention to those things anyway but i dont see the mets getting bent out of shape or hating other teams because they “celebrate”.
Merengue, huh? I would prefer he crosses home plate, throws his helmet on the ground, and does the mexican hat dance around the helmet…..
AWESOME. I second that. I hope Jose moonwalks across home plate next year! It’ll get rid of these miserable, conservative, “old school” self-hating Mets fans whose masuclinity seems to be threatened.
This team misses a Paul Lo Duca.
no, this team misses a productive player with the fire like Lo Duca.
Yeah, this team really misses an awful defensive catcher that was so useless offensively, he managed to get released by the Nationals. Lo Duca is so beyond overrated in this town.
This team misses your crack pipe.
no i m hoping what he is saying is that he missed teh 2006 lo duca…which was an all star and a great number 2 hitter for us..which by the way we have not had in the last two seasons
So maybe the Flushing 9 should come out next season and show they aren’t soft….First game against the Phils, throw one up and in…..If other teams throw at you, throw back.
Don’t lose your persona, but back it up. Back it up so that the teams try so hard to beat you that they mess up. Get in their heads, and beat them through and through. If the league acts like you are the ‘86 Mets, you would be well served to channel those memories onto the ball field and play like a team that will not only beat you up and down the diamond, but then go hit on the wives of the other team after the game.
the mets persona is currently something like “overcelebrating chokers”
I hate this topic I really do, but my view on this whole issue with teams hating the mets is to make them scared of you, and hate you at the same time. I absolutley agree that the 2007, and 2008 Mets were the biggest bunch of pansies that I have ever seen play baseball, but that can easily change in 09. I want to see Victorino get a ball over his head his first ab of the season and spring training. I want to see the Mets pitch under the chin of Hanley, Rollins, Howard, Utley, Dukes, and so on. Now don’t get me wrong I don’t just want to see people getting plunked, I just want to see that fire that the Mets are capable of showing. That in your face, bust your lip, smash mouth, not in my house attitude where if you piss any of the Mets off, or disrespect them they will let you know. This isn’t hard to do, the hard part is to play good, smart baseball along with what i mentioned, and if all goes according to plan the Mets will be where the Phillies are this time next year.
just like the Rays did this year.
I agree.
why there isnt a rivalry between the braves and phillies, the marlins and braves or the phillies and marlins?
we have a rivalry with the phillies,braves and marlins.
why the hate against us?
because we play in the biggest market and get the most attention but we’re just not that good. But we are given the perception that we are. These other teams have a chip on their shoulder and enjoy big time when they get to beat us.
We are from New York, everyone hates New York lol.
People just love to hate the big sports markets, and New York and Boston are at the forefront.
It’s not about being in a big market. It’s how you put yourself out as. We have the money.. so that means we can get toss money around and get all the best free agents. We’re bigger and badder than everyone else. To hell with fairness and competitiveness. I’m not just talking about the Mets. I just mean all big market teams in baseball. Without caps, it’s just the way it is.
Sad to say but Gillick is RIGHT! If you don’t think so, you have an inferiority complex.. It’s all pychological. Are you more of a man if you’re better than the rest? Here’s some examples.. In poker, it’s better to make friends than enemies.. In a bluffing situation, they’re more likely to back down if they’re your friend. In politics, why do you think the rest of the world hates us? We think we’re ALMIGHTY. Same thing with baseball, if they’re your friend, maybe they won’t try as hard to beat you when they have nothing to play for. Sure they’re not going to outright and say it, but it’s in the back of they’re minds!
Thanks MetLifer – You’re correct. He is right. It made a difference for sure. Unfortunately, winning for the Mets will always be harder then it will be for the other teams in this division. I don’t care who we sign. I go to school and work in the Philly area – I am having an awful time right now – and…they just annouced that tomorrow is Phillies pride day here at work. We are all suppose to wear red :-( I’ll be in black.
I haaaaate the pPhils and cant deal with the thought of Rollins, Burrell et al winning
sarah palin hates us too. new york that is…
yea…we’re not “real america”
And is it just me, or do the Phillies get every break imaginable this postseason??? Don’t get me wrong they are playing really well, but I have never seen a team get so many good breaks.
like getting away with a really bad balk. ?
I hope teams will like us more and let us win! Maybe we could make the visiting clubhouse nicer than ours, and serve them better food, and iced beverages! They’ll like us so much, they’ll be afraid to beat us because we might take it away. And let’s learn their favorite music and play it when they come to bat. They’ll feel just like they’re at home!
Don’t you get it?!?! We’re losing because Reyes dances! Stop being a blind homer!
Maybe we should invite them to dance, too!
Hilarious
No one said we lose BECAUSE of Reyes’ dances.
The point is, is why act like a fool when you have been a big part of a team which has put together two ma*sively disappointing seasons in a row?
Why act that way, unless dancing around is something you care about more than winning?
And maybe I will sound like Furioso here, but if Jose put some more time into working on being more consistent, and put as much time into that as he does into perfectly choreographing his silly little dances, maybe he could have done a few more things to help us win ONE more game either of the last two years.
Maybe some of the other INFERIOR players on the Mets could have done more to win games.
Reyes was 7th in MLB in VORP. Just after A-Rod and right ahead of Grady Sizemore.
But yeah, we need him to DO MORE because he dances and appears to not care or something.
I mean, Reyes is so “immature” that he developed himself from an incredibly impatient free swinger at the age of 22 to a .360 OBP guy by the age of 23. I’m sure he doesn’t work hard at all at his game.
Again, not my point.
But, if his dances incite the other teams to focus more and play better against us, then he is also helping us to lose—can’t you see that??
Would you rather be in the postseason with Jose acting clas*y after hitting a homer, or where we are two years in a row WITH him dancing??
The notion that teams focus more against us because of reyes is BUNK.
We had a better record against the Marlins and Nationals than the Phillies did this year, for goodness sakes.
The Phillies won the division because they annihilated the Braves this year and we struggled with them.
Oh, and our bullpen really stunk.
really really really stunk.
We lost kingman. To blame it solely on Reyes is incredibly idiotic…
He is a great player, and I hope he is a Met for life.
But my thought is that Jose is CLEARLY the #1 target of what the topic of this post is, why the other teams hate us.
but kingman thats a stupid reason to “hate” the mets when those same teams do the same thing! I think it must go deeper than that and if it is only reyes than they need to man the f up. Reyes needs to keep doing him. Do teams get extra riled up when they play against manny???
Dirty, I do not disagree that it is stupid, but it is what it is.
I just think that the excessive celebration in the context of the last two years is perhaps a bit much, and my main point which I could not get Danny to see is that while of course loads of other guys celebrate, how many do it as constantly as Jose?
And I would NEVER trade Jose unless we were getting Pujols in return. And when we are up by 10 games next year, let the dances begin!!
You’re dead wrong if you don’t think Wright/Reyes are the 2 main reasons the Mets are hated.
2 overrated chokers treated like princes
Furioso, where you been? I have been getting slammed here today!
LOL
Or just give them nothing, and maybe they won’t show up?
You know why teams hate the Mets? Because in reality they know they cant beat the Mets unless the Mets beat themselves. Which is what happened the last 2 years.
The Mets should have ran away with this division 3 years in a row instead of just in 2006.
This teams needs to grow a pair, get its confidence back, bring in a leader like Varitek and start throwing at teams instead of caring what they say.
Really it’s NY. In many ways, it is the capital of the world. They play harder to overcome their cities inferiority
hopefully you mean a player like Varitek and not him personally, because he is over-age and way past his prime. And we need to get away from having Moises Alou squared at catcher.
That said, a player like Varitek would be nice.
Varitek………no thanks. We do not need Paul LoDuca, I mean Jason Varitek.
We would need an upgrade in production from our catchers, not Varitek.
Stats, stats, stats…..It’s not always about stats. I remember fans chanting “Paul LoDuca” and now all I hear is one slam against him after another.
Fact is the Mets need a guy like Varitek in the clubhouse. They need a guy like Varitek behind the plate. It’s no coincidence that he has caught 4 no-hitters. The guy knows how to call a game and age doesnt take that talent away from you. Age doesnt take away his attitude and leadership. Remember his confrontation with A-Rod? Who else has had the guts to do that to A-Rod?
I wish the Mets had a guy like Varitek behind the plate regardless of age. This team needs a leader and needs to grow up.
Look LoDuca was very solid when he was producing. But he stinks now, because old age is a b*tch. Look Varitek can be my ptcing coach any day, but I think we need a complete catcher. I think our Brian Catro Platoon will do that more than Varitek can.
If a talented football team turns the ball over three times a game and beats itself, they’re still losing. It doesn’t matter why they lose; they’re still losing. It doesn’t matter if a team p@sses them in the standings even if they aren’t as talented; they’re still p@ssing them. What’s that saying… you are what your record says you are? Something like that.
You can have all the talent in the world on the team and if your team is not complete, it doesn’t matter, because you’re still not capable of getting it done.
The idea of the Mets being hated because they play in NY is ludicrous. It’s probably more based on a combination of 40-step rain-making handshakes, and the fact that the Mets do these 40-step rain-making handshakes while not winning anything worthy of mention.
So what would be the excuse for the rest of the baseball world hating the Yankee’s?
26 championships and a payroll that could feed half of Africa.
Really, who cares if they don’t like us. Do people actually play better or worse when they are emotionally stoked. Adrenaline rush. I think it can go either way.
you may be right, but our team is soft…they back down from confrontations. At least we finally have a manager that sticks up for his players…now we need players that stick up for eachother.
I think the mets are soft, and that the other teams focus better/more/harder when they play us because they don’t like us……
Is it just me or is the word censor way way WAY too sensitive?
Guys how upset do you think Omar and Wilpon will get if the phils win the world series. I’m upset that we gave it to them. Why did we resign Omar when the bullpen failed us yet again.
Because he is working on his changeup and slider this offseason?
You’re reading it the wrong way. All those quote means is that:
“If those others teams had hated us as much, they would have played us harder and we never could’ve won”
Maybe it’s just me but the Marlins and Nationals come off as more whiny babies in their “anger” at the Mets. I mean look at Cody Ross and Elijah Dukes.
Both of those guys are punks. That being said, Cody Ross is exactly the kind of player the Mets need in left field….if it isn’t Man Ram anyway.
Agreed. Hanley is worse than Reyes and the entire Nats organization is known for taking arrogant and underachieving ballplayers.
I think most of you on this site who live in NY or the North East need to take a breath and go watch some other cities teams play.
The perspective here is so overly zealous that minor things like an occasional celebratory HR dance (which Reyes didn’t do that often. And so what, he should do it every time) turns into him being a whiny under achieving choker that the rest of baseball hates… which isn’t true by a long shot.
I really don’t mind them hating us. It will make it all the sweeter once we field a team that can dominate the division. If they hate us, fine. I hate them too.
Metsblog: Please stop obsessing about the Phillies and other NL East teams hating the Mets. Its called division rivalry. Worry about your own team for a change and stop whining about otehr teams.
I’m personally thrilled that they hate us. If it was me, this “hatred” would give me added incentive to go out there and crank out a win.
I completely agree the Mets need to show some back bone. Sportscenter did a great piece about the rays that they came out “swining” at the yanks and sawx and didnt back down all year.
the mets arent perfect, and lets not kid ourselves, the phillies were the better team this year. but the mets arent far behind and definitely need someone to step in and throw high and inside (something we saw ayala do on occasion btw) at the right person.
reyes’ dances are great, let the dude play his game. he is one of the best in the league and we are BEYOND LUCKY to have him on our team. people wont realize until he is gone how good of a player he is.
if people cant handle his dances, thats their problem. they’re adults, deal with it. I have a feeling its going to be a much different team next year in terms of make up and persona.
Twice they blew it, and now with the phils in the playoffs and all this shenanigans being written about them, and the constant references to collapsing and being choke artists, the mets will come out swinging in ‘09. if not…well, prepare for more of the same then.
Expect more Reyes dances…..except in Sept, when he disappears
“Hey, how about the Mets just play better baseball and win on their own effort, and not spend time worrying about what other people think of them. How about that? How about, instead of backing down, the Mets fight back.”
Yeah, how about that! Keep preachin’ Matt!
More Obama-think . . . “if we love them then we’ll win”.
can we PLEASE keep politics out of baseball?
yes we can….keep it out that is!
LOL. We need change…. for a hundred dollar bill.
Yet Palin comparison/jokes are OK?
I think Jeff Wilpon looks like a pig wearing lipstick; but I don’t hate him for it…
If the Mets had a decent bullpen, none of this stuff would matter. The significant difference between the Mets and the Phils in 2008 were their bullpens. The Phils’ was their and continues to be their strength. The Mets’ was their Achilles Heel. Last night, the Phil’s bullpen was handed a one run lead and made it stand up as usual. How many times did we such a scenario blow up in the Mets face in 2008? Switch the bullpens and the Mets win the division by at least 5 games.
I’m with ya kd bart except if we had a closer that went 41-41 in save opportunites we’d have 100+ wins easy
if other teams liked us, it’d be because we were easy to beat. i’m sure tons of teams like the royals and liked the rays before this season. really don’t care if other teams like us or not.
so essentially gillick is saying the phils wouldnt have made the playoffs on the teams merit and talent, but got in because the nl east wanted them too.
ok there.
I hope it’s a quick WS; don’t give a crap about it anyways; so Omar can start reconstructiong this team top to bottom. My list of “untouchables’; David Wright and Johan Santana. That’s it! Start wheelin and dealin and let’s get a TEAM on the damn field! New season, new field and NEW TEAM!
Thank you and have a nice day!
I would keep Pelfrey and Reyes too. After that yes all should be listened to.
Why Jose Reyes and not David Wright? Just curious to why you think David Wright is untouchable.
I know, considering Reyes is younger, plays a more premium position, and is just as valuable as Wright.
I say we keep both, for the record.
ATTITUDE re: winning
Eh, who cares? Just change the line to “The rest of MLB hates NY.”
I am sure they are jealous of the money and attention that the two NY teams get.
Big deal.
In the words of kat williams
““You need haters. What the **** is you complaining about? What the **** do you think a haters job is? To ****ing hate. So let them mother****er do their goddamn job…Fellas if you got 20 haters, you need 40 of them mother****ers…If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me”
your no willie randolf, senator!
Man I love Kat Williams.
Pretty much my thoughts.
Meh– who cares?
Yes it’s totally meaningless!
Except that it translates to extra losses for the Mets.
“I’d crawl to the batter’s box to beat the Mets”
Nope, nothing to see here. Move along.
There’s a reason the Mets are hated.
And it’s not “jealousy” or anything like that.
It’s because the Mets (and their fans) act as if they’re winners when they’re not.
Because they’re overrated
Because they’re a bully team.
Well now the bully been smacked in the mouth a couple of times, and he’s shown to be a punk.
Hope Wright and Reyes enjoy the Phils in the series.
B*tches
I understand it sounds like an excuse but when the braves and nats pretty much lay down for the phils and dont care at all and play like its game 7 of the world series against us it is a slight advantage for them. Obviously we should still be able to beat these inferior teams but when these bad teams dont even try vs philly it sometimes works against us.
Actually it is jealousy.
Ya know, the immortal Steve Spurrier said, in response to the animosity of Florida’s rivals (Georgia, FSU, Tennessee, Auburn) towards the Gators (paraphrasing): “If they like you, it’s probably because they’re beating you.”
Who care if other teams don’t like us? Just win…
Don’t post much anymore, but wanted to weigh in on this one. Yes, I believes teams play harder to beat the Mets, it’s part of being a NY team, and the legacy of being obnoxious in ‘86 (Davey’s Mets) then again in 99-00 (Bobby’s Mets) and then running away with it in ‘06.
The problem isn’t that teams play us harder, its the fact that the Mets don’t RELISH that fact. I think Wright gets it, and Johan, but I don’t feel like most of the players, or our current manager get it, and shape the team to enjoy being the hunted.
I can’t speak for 69 and 73, but the 86, 88, 99, 00, and 06 teams had in common the fact that they loved the challenge of going out and proving they were the bad boys on the block. While it was in slightly different ways, they all showed a toughness and determination that is simply lacking in the 07-08 squad.
We’ll see what Manuel brings to a team that will be his from Spring on, but I have little confidence that his style is going to produce that kind of team. Maybe we’ll get some players that can bring that swagger. In ‘06, I think those players were Lo Duca and Wagner, as they backed up their talk with solid years.
The Mets always seem to be their best when they are a team like that–with attitude. It’s why I wanted to see Bobby V back and have a truly fresh start from the past two years.
thanks Keith
RETIRE # 17
You know how you deal this Mets hate? Add to the obnoxious players. Manny and Krod would be a nice start.
in other words, in stead of trying to appease these other teams by being less obnoxious, become MORE obnoxious, and better in the process.
Yup, that’s part of the fun and challenge of being a GM of a NY team. You can’t just build a “winning team” you really do need to build a winning NY team.
I think KRod and Manny may end up being too expensive for the Mets, but I do think you need players like that (not all players need to be like that) as well as icewater players like an Olreud, Piazza, and Ventura that can compliment them.
It’s a tougher task than elsewhere, but the rewards are even sweeter as well.
Who needs other teams to hate the Mets when we have Furioso?
BRILLIANT. End of story.
I wish some of you homers would join me. It is unthinkable that anyone can even have a good word to say about them off 2 chokes.
the problem is you think that your entitled to a brand of honor badge because you are willing to be some over the top negative, your view is just as myopic and weak as the guy who sees Joe McEwing in the starting lineup with Jason Phillips at first base and is trying to talk playoffs.
this is the stupidest concept ever, essentially what Gillick is saying is that the Marlins, Braves and Nationals basically mail it in against the rest of baseball, but when they get up against the Mets it is all biz.
If that were true Cox should have been fired a decade ago for this postseason whiffs and Gonzales should never have been given a job.
Hanley Ramirez saying he wants to beat the Mets? Annoying, but acceptable. Rollins saying the Phillies are “the team to beat”? Good for him. But when Kelly Johnson says after the Braves beat the Mets, “You look up at the scoreboard and see the Phillies are winning, and it makes you want to help ‘em out a little bit,” that’s a problem. That’s borderline on-field collusion. Statements like that, statements like the Gillick statement, begin to foster an image that the NL East is a four-against-one division, and the commissioner’s office wouldn’t be out of line investigating or reprimanding Johnson for a statement like the one he made. The Gillick statement is merely an observation, although one that seems odd to make about the Phillies while they’re in the World Series (we’re here because the teams that laid down for us really wanted to beat up on the Mets). But the Johnson one is punishable by a fine, at least, IMHO. (It could have been worse, I guess. It could have been said after the Braves lost a game to the Phils.)
no, it should be punishable by a fastball in the ear. i realize the mets are soft, but complaining to the commissioner about other teams wanting to beat you is equivalent to being a tattle-tale. the mets need to stand up for themselves. they go out and celebrate and dance and high five, then cry when they get booed and fold under pressure. they are the definition of soft.
When did I say the Mets should say anything to the Commissioner? I’m saying the Commissioner’s office should police their sport. And for every Met “dance” and “celebration”, there’s a Ryan Howard watching his homerun, a Shane Victorino jumping up and down on home plate… a Jonathan Papelbon pounding his chest and screaming after a strike out, Joba Chamberlain doing the same… every team, EVERY TEAM, has guys who celebrate on field. The Mets don’t have a monopoly on that.
Oh, and a fastball to the ear would kill a guy, so… yeah, that’s a great idea.
“Mets are the definition of soft”
FINALLY!
SOMEONE GETS IT!!!!!!
This team needs more of the attitude of a Rollins or a Hanley, and less of the attitude of a D. Wright (scared b*tch) or Jose Reyes (dancing clown)
PS for Race-
Those fastballs worked for Pedro pretty well….
hanley ramirez is less clutch than david and jose. a lot less clutch. he is softer than they are. jimmy rollins has a career post season batting average under .200……..you don’t know anything furioso please stop!
I know that Rollins is playing now and our guys sure aren’t
Also know Rollins has an MVP.
But hey, at least he HAS postseason games to bat .200 in.
As opposed to the Mets playing golf now…and last year
yep and where are our 97 mph fastballers? do we have anybody in th pen whos throws harder than 90 mhp except for stokes and heilman?