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At his blog Always Amazin’, Matthew Artus asks the question of whether Aaron Heilman should stay or go.
Artus writes:
“Heilman endured a knee injury in Spring Training and then went on to be overworked something horrific in 2008 by Randolph and Manuel.”
“But, Heilman’s ground ball ratios changed for the worse. He gave up homers at a progressively worse clip since joining the pen in ‘06, and couldn’t keep the ball on the ground in 2008.”
“Stay. The Mets can take a gamble on 2008 being an aberration in Heilman’s career and get a decent shot at a rebound season for a great price.”
…as i wrote previously on Metsblog, i like heilman and think that if he could return to form he would be a valuable asset, but i wonder if the psychological pressure he seems to be under is reversible while he is a member of the Mets…
…added to by Matthew Cerrone…
…the thing with heilman is that, if the Mets are unable to trade him for anything of value, why cut him…i mean, he’s still under contract…instead, i would rather see the team finally give in and work him as a starting pitcher, essentially trading Aaron Heilman the Relief Pitcher for Aaron Heilman the Starter…
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So instead of enduring 1 horrible inning for 5 days we’ll have to endure 5 horrible innings for 1 day every time?
exactly
I’ll never understand why some people insist that a pitcher who has enough trouble with 3 outs would do better getting 20 outs.
I’m not Heilman’s biggest fan, but pitching as a starter and as a reliever are (pardon the pun) two completely different ballgames. Just because you’re an ace starter doesn’t mean you’d be any good at all coming in the 7th completely cold when the bats are hot. Alternately, someone who struggles as a reliever could very well be successful as a starter when they know giving up a couple of runs is normal and they have way more influence on the rhythm of the game. Having said that, Heilman could very well be most useful to the Mets as a scapegoat.
That damn Omar….everyone knows he favors Caucasian players…thats why he wont let Aaron go !
Get rid of Heilman
If he stays, he’ll be awful. If he goes, he’ll undoubtedly be great wherever he ends up.
It’s a lose/lose proposition for the Mets.
I would be happy to doubt this.
God, do people really have this much trouble knowing a horrible pitcher when they see him? Why not cut him? Are you serious?
Maybe to prevent a player revolt…or you think this team likes busting their butts every night only to see this biffoon give it all up within 15 pitches.
Please.
I think you do not know a talented pitcher when you see one, unless they are successful, which is sometimes a condition based on situation, environment, and health. Heilman needs all three of those to change (starter, new team, stay healthy), but if they do he could be a great pitcher.
Please no, no, no and no. What part of no don’t you understand Regis – the n or the o?
Heilman’s time with this team has come and gone. I do not want to see his sulky face shambling off the mound after another blown loss. – ever again.
Trade him while he still has value. And trade him soon.
He is at the nadir of his value.
The MEts need to come out and say loud an clear what the pysical problems were with Heilman.
That will serve to maintain his value and asuage the fan base.
I think he has more intestinal fortitude not to let the fan reactions last year get to him.
But he was horribly over worked by Willie and later by Jerry. Especially if he had an injury.
I heard Matt Garza saw a therapist in regards to his problems on the mound. Would it hurt if Heilman saw one? Obviously he’s clouded by his ineffective performance, and the fact he’s pitching in NYC doesn’t help. Would it hurt if he saw a quack? It worked for Garza.
that wouldnt be such a bad idea if aaron is going to stay…i heard arod saw a shrink too.
Are you sure it was about baseball? Arod seems to have plenty of personal problems he could see a shrink about.
lol he sure does have alot of things.. but i read somewhere he saw a shrink when he first started playing for the yanks…
I wouldn’t doubt you, Sanchez. The amount of pressure a player endures while in NYC takes a whole lot out of that person mentally. And plus, lately, athletes are finding their ways to the shrinks. If it can help him get back on track, more power to him. If not, demote him.
I actually prefer the term “sports psychiatrist”
Good luck with this crowd.
The major issue with Heilman last season was two fold:
A) Walks…Last season, Heilman gave up 46 walks…To put that in context, he gave up 48 walks in 2006 and 2007 combined.
B) Lefties….Heilman vs. Lefties:
2008: .308/.416/.567
2007: .234/.298/.435
2006: .231/.331/.327
To see such a drastic difference in those areas suggest that Aaron’s injury was more of a detriment than we all thought.
To move Heilman at such a low value is silly, when there is every chance that he can recover in 2009. They should keep him on board, but make him earn the 8th inning job….start him in a mop-up role and see how he responds. The numbers he put up on ‘08 aren’t bad for the 12th guy in the pen, but we all know he is capable of being a quality set up guy. If he is back to 100% by April, then the Mets would be wise to give him a shot. If he can’t get it together, THEN you release him
heres a question..if he sustained a knee injury in spring training..why didnt they DL him or send him down at the first sign of trouble??
who knows….I think its agreed upon that the Mets can do a better job with injuries. Though, it could be possible that Heilman kept quiet about the injury.
i agree. That would be the only explination imo(heilman kept quiet). Heilman was bad from start to finish and i think he had options, i dont know why they never sent him down….idk something is up tho.
calling FreeAaronHeilman I, II, or III…
i’ve been wondering the same thing. i joined late so as i’m scrolling, i’m thinking where is he?
rest as-sured, FAH I, II, & III is lurking in the shadow. waiting for an opportunity to pounce on an ungrateful mets fan.
If there was a FAH IV, I’d be that guy….However, one log in is enough
Make him earn whatever spot he ends up.. don’t give him anything..
trade him or start him. he cant be a reliever HERE anymore.
finally a comment got through. he is basically our 2006 brad lidge so yea we have 2 options niether is all that great either hope he can be a starter or trade him for very little and watch him flourish somewhere else.
Aaron Heilman’s best is SO FAR from Brad Lidge’s that I am in shock that someone would make this comparison.
Aaron Heilman has had ONE GOOD HALF SEASON in his career, culminating in him giving up the most devastating home run in Mets history to a light-hitting catcher.
Why is everynoe so sure he is going to ‘fluorish” somewhere else? I say he is out of baseball less than 2 years from when the Mets finally end this charade.
I don’t think he can be a starter here either – too much bad history.
I like Heilman but he needs to go – both for his sake as well as the Mets’. If they can trade him for someone halfway decent (or just some decent pitching prospects), hopefully to a team the Mets won’t see very much, that would be the best thing for everyone.
trade him and get something of value for him – he can’t be successful in NY
I don’t doubt that he has the ability to be a solid or even great reliever. I just don’t think it’s going to happen here. I think he needs a fresh start somewhere else.
agreed.
Indeed, it’s the quality of New York atmospheric pressure. The barometric readings at this altitude compress his brain density to levels unsuitable for MLB pitching. He can only function in Florida where he can be relaxed by the chirping of the crickets.
Heilman’s best outings were the long ones (3 innings a couple of times). So maybe converting to starter isn’t such a bad idea. On the other hand, I think a clean slate is needed. Time to get him out of Dodge. He and the fans will be better for it, even if he is successful somewhere else. Mets need to have at least 4 new arms in the pen next year or there will be blood.
I agree. I’m not a Heilman fan. But, honestly, if the Mets trade him for a bag of balls, and he flourishes on the team he was traded for…how would that look? Then everyone on Metsblog will argue that he should have stayed. What do the Mets have to lose? Not much. Someone said it best…let him earn a spot. And if he doesn’t earn a spot, demote him.
LMAO…… Heilman might have had more opportunities to go 3 innings (or even 2) if he could……………………..wait for it……………… actually get through even one inning in his other outings!!
See what I’m getting at here?!?
i like heilman..always have. I think omar should move him for the same thing you guys said earlier. Because of such a HORRIBLE year..mentally i think he cannot succeed here. With that being said if omar cannot move heilman then perhaps try him out for a starter and keep him in the minors for spot starts here and there. I would not trust hielman with my #5 spot.
He must be stretched out in Spring Training with an eye to being a starter or long man. If he does well, he could be a keeper. But at least he can restore his trade value.
I’m shocked that moving Heilman tot he rotation has never gotten any serious consideration. He’s the Mets’ version of Ryan Dempster. He doesn’t have the mental make-up for the late innings, but he’s got good stuff and, like Dempster, flourish whne he has a little room for error.
I’m pretty sure Dempster was a starter for like 6 years before he became a reliever.
Also, Dempster was good.
I defended Heilman up and down going into this season. He had a terrible season.
I think getting out of NY would be good for him. But, if we can’t get anything of value, stick him back in the pen. Maybe he rebounds. Maybe he just needs to be healthy. If he’s bad, we can always just cut him then.
I think everyone is underestimating the psychological effect seeing this clown trotting in from the pen must have on the rest of this team.
With Heilman replaced by a mildly competent set-up man in 2008, the Mets win the east by 5 games. But yeah…he’s only blown 3 seasons so far…why not try for a fourth?!
Heilman should never have been a reliever. Such an organizational miscue by the Mets. That having been said, when Willie (and presumably Omar) made it clear that he wasn’t going to start, he should have suked it up and done his job, because I think in his heart of hearts he has always believed that he is a starter and has never been fully into the role he had been a$signed.
That having been said, I think he may be psychologically done here. If he has any value left, trade him. If not… well, he has too much ability still to just cut him. In this case, I don’t think that solves anything.
That therapy suggestion wasn’t bad, either.
As for injuries… well, who knows? Is that a reason or an excuse?
Seriously? The language filter on this site is infantile and badly designed. The words “as s” and “suc k” are barely even curses, guys. Take ‘em out of the filter.
Just to be clear, in my prior post, I had to fiddle with the word “as signed” and the phrase “suc ked it up and done his job” in order to get the post through. That’s just ridiculous.
I agree. If you’re not capable of expressing yourself in an intelligent manner, you have every right, no, a responsibility, to publicize that to other readers.
What if I want to say che-e-se or K-e-n G-r-f-f-e-y- J-r, or ma-na-ge-ment.
for Heilman’s sake. trade the guy cause the mets fan are going to break him in half next year if he comes out of the bullpen.
trade him to the Cardinals, Duncan can fix him in 5 minutes, or Cubs.
HAHAHA! Free Heilman!
Keep Heilman in the pen, keep him on the team, he was never a good starter, get over it, the guy had one goodstart 5 years ago, THAT was an abberation. If the guy cant get two batters out, how is he gonna last 6 innings with his fast changeup and slow changeup repertorie?
You wont get value for him, dont sell low, keep him around, if he doesnt make the team, so be it, if he does, good for him and us, and thats it…
the same people who think Heilman would be a good starter are the same people who still think Bannister is any good because he had two good starts to kick off 2008 (and then 2 dozen bad starts)
Who is the genius above who saidHeilman has been bad for 3 seasons? He was one of the best relievers in the game in 06& 07, wow….i mean wow….no seriously…wow….
Did Johan suc k in 08 too? I guess by your standards
Did you watch the games? Or just read the stat lines.
Heilman is A-W-F-U-L. Period. Just because half the runs he gives up don’t count against him does not make him good. He had a decent stretch in ‘06, then he blew game 7 of the NLCS. Since then he’s managed to keep going downhill.
Did you watch 2007? When was Heilman awful then? The guy had 2 bad weeks all year….but dont worry im sure you wanna keep Feliciano and Duaner…Heilman at least was injured, those 2 have no excuse other than that they are bad pitchers…now if you want to say a guy had 1 good half of a season in his entire career it is Duaner…
I say you keep Heilman because his trade value is almost nothing, period, thats the only reason, eitehr he comes thru for the mets or he gets released last week of March….look Omar is gonna bring in 34 guys this year and the best 7 are gonna be the Pen, period, Heilman will be 1 of those 34
1st round pick, give me a break this guy is not a big game pitcher never ever has performed in a big game.
Get rid of him, his confidence is shot and between the pressure of NY and the fans on him right away he gives up a big run he will never be able to rebound here
GET RID OF HIM
he had three solid years prior to this one. pretty sure other teams know that too. He’s got to have decent trade value, even though he;s held in such low esteem here. I wouldn’t mind letting him try for the 5th starter (though the brain trust has seemingly determined that will never happen). I’ll buy that this season has affected his psyche, but I won’t buy anyone’s predictions of how that will determine his performance next year. Maybe he’s extra-motivated to get healthy, maybe he becomes a shrinking violet. Control was obviously his problem this year, as evidenced by his K/BB, and it’s a pretty drastic jump…seems to indicate something was off after three pretty similar seasons before.
three words…home grown talent
We’re not going to do much better for the $1.5m or so he’ll get in arbitration, so why sell low?
Aaron Heilman, BABIP(Batiing Average of Balls in Play)
2007: .256
2008: .323
Thats a ridiculous difference in BABIP over two years, so as you can see, he’s just not getting as lucky as he was in 2007. Balls were just not getting hit at guys.
While his walks and hr’s were up, so were his k’s.
80 k in 76 ip.
If the mets can’t get anything of value in return, he’s worth keeping around. Maybe his luck changes in 2009.
You really can’t just look at BABIP and as-sume it was luck/bad luck. In Heilman’s case his line drive percentage went from 20 to 23% and his ground ball rate went down 4%. Also if you look at other peripheals his bb/9 shot up 2.09 to 5.45. That’s not just bad luck.
As a Mets fan, I really don’t need to look at numbers like BABIP or line drive % to determine whether or not a pitcher is good, bad, lucky, unlucky, or should be released.
I rely on WSWMO2E (What I see with my own two eyes). Heilman didn’t get luckier or any less lucky than the next pitcher. I will say this though. It is really amazing how nobody in taht bullpen could get a guy to ground out to 2B or fly out to RF. It was pretty unlucky…but it all evens out I guess.
The Mets got very, very, very “unlucky” the last 17 games of each of the last two seasons.
They made their own luck, folks. I keep flashing back to David Wright, the 3-0 count, Murphy on third, nobody out. . . .
You mean you have a picture perfect memory of every pitch thrown by every player every year?
That’s incredible!
That’s because half of the balls in play against him went over the fence!
He gave up 10 hrs in 76 innings! If he pitched as many innings as Santana he would have given up 31 hrs!
As hard as the balls were hit against him he’s lucky he didn’t get killed.
That and the walks which don’t factor into BABIP.
keep him as a mop up man….that means that out of all 7 guys in the pen, he is the worst…or even the long man wuldnt be too bad….i do think he was injured and overworked and he was a very good reliever in previous years….i say keep him but do NOT give him a big role
hey just saw on sny a shakeup to the coaching positions, anyone have further information on this?
ur new 3rd base coach razor shines folks
Let him compete with the Vargas brothers and Niese for the #5 spot. Maybe he will do really well and stick or average and we can at least trade him WITH value. If he stinks then what have we really lost? A mop up man?
wow…I never thought that Metsblog would be drinking the AFH cool aid….I’m so disappointed- I guess I’m just unforgiving, and impatient…but I was over him about 30 seconds after he gave up the homerun to the Cards in Game 7…and he has done nothing but make me an awful fan since.
sniff.
Matt is right. He has no value right now. Place him in the rotation, make him the #5 guy and see what happens. That is the role he truly wants. So give it to him and see what happens. Best case scenario, he improves a bit and has more value on the trade market.
Heilman should ask Brad Lidge what the hell he did.
He got a change of scene.
See, these “bird in hand” justifications completely whiff on what’s really needed to get this team competitive: new blood. For its own sake. The team has got to change fundamentally. We heard all of the rationalizations last year for keeping Schoeneweis around, relying on El Duque and Pedro, signing Castilo, counting on a major role for Sanchez, etc. They need an overhaul and cannot be risk averse when it comes to shedding the players who drastically underperformed.
And they should get rid of Delgado.
The Heilman talk is so played. How can anyone think to bring him back next year. The guy shouldn’t even pitch in the majors. Why should he be given a chance as a starter? How can he better at that role? What has he done to deserve this opportunity? The guy is a complete waste, cant pitch under pressure and is the major reason behind the disappointments that were the ‘06 NLCS and the ‘07 and ‘08 playoffs. He could go someplace else and win 25 as a starter, the guys is as soft as it comes and has no place in Citifield. Addition by subtraction – its time to give someone else a try.
Agreed. If he wins 25 games for the A’s, that’s no guarantee he would have done the same with the Mets. Like Lidge, some guys just need to move on along.
Heilman should not be a starter. No starter can be successful with 2 pitches.
Why get rid of him if he has no value? Because you need to purge this team of all stiffs.
There are a few targets who should be shipped out before Aaron…I’m looking at Castillo primarily, and then Bloenweis
Get him OFF this team, end of story.
thank you – the end.
Look, if the guy was hurt all of 2008, you can’t blame him for bad performance–it should’ve been expected–just like no one should’ve expected a certain politician to run the country well after bankrupting every business he’d ever tried to run.
Heilman 2009!
Braden Looper went from closer to starter and he did a decent job for the Cards this year. Remember that guy? We HATED that guy and now he’s a starter and he’s decent. Give Heilman the shot as a starter. A happy ballplayer performs much better than an unhappy one sometimes and clearly Heilman isn’t happy right now. Of course we just want him to perform well or get out of town but it’s worth a shot unless something better comes along.
Some guys need a change of scenery.. Heilman is one of them. The fans boo him to no end. Even if he was as starter… His first bad game.. Everyone would be screaming for his head. Best thing we can do is trade him for another guy that needs a change of scenery.
The argument that his value is too low to trade is hogwash.. Just because we as fans think his value is low doesn’t mean that other GMs view him the same way. They see that he’s had pretty good success before last year and that he can bounce back. Sure we would love to see him do it here, but it’s most likely not going to happen in NY. Even a slightest sign of trouble and the fans will shoot his confidence down with boos.
Obviously you won’t get fair value for him straight up, but in a bigger trade he can be a big part of it.
sign adam loewen. just released.
Bye, bye Aaron. He’d have to not have blown a game for the entire first half of the ‘09 season before Met fans could exhale while he was on the mound…
Not that he was the only one in that pen who gave up leads consistently. But I found myself thinking when they had to bring in someone – ‘anyone but Heilman’. He replaced the ‘anyone but Mota’ in my mind.
Nothing personal against him. Change of scenery needed all the way around.
Heilman unfortunately I feel is one of those guys that will continue to fail in NY like so many other players only to see them resurrect their career on another team. The Mets will not get full value for him. Lets face it, he throws 95 with a slider and changeup. When he is on he is scary but loses confidence too easily. We need to cut ties to him. Many relievers have failed on the Mets. If he fails early next year, people will be on him all year.
Just think what we could have had a couple of years ago when teams were falling over themselves to get him as a starter. Now maybe we will get draft picks or utility type players.
You are right about not getting anything for him. Another example of Omar selling low. Think of the talent we could have gotten for Heilman back when every team wanted him. Now Omar has to dump him for nothing.
Similar circumstances with Milledge. I hated Milledge, but Omar sold him at his absolute lowest value.
Omar loves to take highly prized young players, wait until their value drops, then trade them for crap.
Be fair to Heilman. Trade him. It’s not about being a start or reliever at this point. It’s about him getting a new change somewhere else. If he remains here, I won’t be happy. Even if he did alright. It’d be like holding onto Mota in 2008. I’ll never trust this guy when it counts which is what the real problem is. I want to be able to trust my relievers.
Right. Because vindictive Mets fans will never give him a fair shot here again. He’s become a whipping boy. It’s a shame because he is talented and has good stuff – and is cheap right now.
And you know – you just know – that he will have big years with the next team he goes to.
Exactly!
He’d be lights out for weeks at a time but then his slider/changeup won’t drop and he’d walk a ton and then give up a bomb. It’s maddening, how incosistent he isi.
Heilman is godawful. How bad does a pitcher have to get before you dump him? He’s the 2008 version of Calvin Schiraldi.
The only time he could get anyone out was when they brought him in as a mop up man when the Mets were losing. If they brought him in losing 10-0, he was fine. Anytime they brought him in with a lead, he couldn’t get anyone out. Ever.
Send him to the A’s or Seattle where we’ll never have to look at him again. There are plenty of other terrible relievers out there that we can sign for 2009. He’s a total loser who can’t handle even the slightest pressure, not a guy you want on your team.