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According to John Perrotto in a weekend report for Baseball Prospectus, the Mets will not pursue Francisco Rodriguez, instead they will target Brian Fuentes, as well as Derek Lowe.
Joel Sherman reported the same information in the New York Post on Thursday of last week, adding, “The Mets are promising to be creative and explore many avenues.”
Later in the day, Ken Davidoff wrote the following in Newsday, “The Mets have convinced themselves that Rodriguez just isn’t worth the money.”
…the early sense i get is that the Mets know they’ll need to make trades this off-season, to rotate talent and create a new mix…so, they will not have time to wait out K-Rod and Scott Boras, who will likely seek a four– or five-year contract…instead, i suspect the Mets will explore a trade for a closer, like a J.J. Putz, or B.J. Ryan, trusting Brian Fuentes will not sign a contract until after rodriguez’s sets the bar…
In 34 starts with the Dodgers this season, Lowe, who has 85 career saves, was 14-11 with a 3.24 ERA.
In 67 appearances for the Rockies in 2008, Fuentes had 30 saves in 34 opportunities with a 2.71 ERA in 62 innings pitched.
Fuentes will likely seek a three-year, $38 million deal, similar to what Brad Lidge received from the Phillies, according to a report by Ken Rosenthal FoxSports.com.
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Good. Seems to make more sense to trade for Ryan or Putz, if they are available.
Ohh boy. Big mistake. We don’t have that many chips, people. Essentially what we will end up doing is creating a new hole in order to fill another. Now is not the time to be cheap, dammit. Especially if the Phils win the WS, New Yorkers’ expectations are going to be through the roof next year.
I hate to say it, but maybe this Mets “core” of players just isn’t very good. The NL East was suspect for a long time this year and they were unable to take control.
In 34 starts with the Dodgers this season, Lowe, who has 85 career saves, was 14-11 with a 3.24 ERA.
Those saves were like 8 years ago… John Franco was still a closer then!
That’s what I’m saying… stop reporting how many saves he has, he’s NOT a closer anymore.
so, who cares? its nice to know his stats regardless of his title now….
It’s like saying Clemens has 343 wins so we should sign him.
It’s not a moot point. Suppose he signs a 4 year contract with someone and at some point that team needs a closer. He could always pull a Myers Smoltz and come right back to a starter when needed. It’s always good when you sign a guy long term, especially when they are older, that they are flexible.
That’s a horrible point. You’re pointing to two guys who did it – what about Danny Graves? He disappeared after the Reds tried to make him start.
Older guys AREN’T more flexible.
So you are saying that in a pinch that you are 100% sure that Lowe could not close?
i understand lowe. Fuentes on the other hand…..If they dont sign krod i hope they have a closer waiting in the winds inhouse because it makes no sense if your going to sign fuentes you dont spent a few extra mil on somone way younger and more of a closer. Fuentes lost his closing job 2 times..2 TIMES..isnt that a red flag to anyone….
I know rumors and near deals that get reported aren’t always legit, but does anyone else remember it being widely reported that the rockies offered Fuentes to the Mets last year for Heilman and Schoenweis? and Omar balked at including Schoenweis! If it was legit I think it ranks as the worst move Omar didn’t make. Fuentes may have saved the season setting up for (remember all those games Heilman coughed up), then replacing Billy Wagner. That said I agree Fuentes is not as good as advertised and not at all worth Brad Lidge money. He’d be a great 8th inning guy at a reasonable price but as a closer in NY he won’t exactly light the world on fire. He’d be more like Braden Looper-competent, not dominant. In fact, Braden Looper, as a type B Free agent who enjoyed playing in NY and has since become an inning eating decent 4th starter could and should be the mets priority. He’s cheap and he could help as a starter, set up guy, or closer on this team. Loopers presence in the rotation would allow Maine to try out as closer, and if the experiment didn’t work, Looper’s modest ego wouldn’t object to going back to the bullpen. You look at the really good teams in baseball and they’re flexible. They use guys at the end of the year in ways they didn’t in the beginning. They’re creative and mix things up. The Mets are way too static. They pencil in a guy they like (or just a guy nobody else wants because of age/contract) and leave them there.
Hey Matt – just a suggestion – for tonite’s Game 5, would you provide a post for us right before game time that would be dedicated to blogging in-game? Similar to when you post Mets pre-game posts where we all chat together in one spot? Thought it would be a place we could all chat together like we do during the season…just a thought :)
So the inevitable Phillies fan will come in screaming about how big a losers the Mets are despite the fact that we’ve been out of it for nearly a month?
They do anyway. Ever check the other threads since September?
Unfortunately yes. I don’t understand why their trolling (which is 1 post approximately every 2-3 minutes) remains on the site while someone trying to shut them down with pro-Mets arguments, abeit being a bit rash, gets their comments deleted.
No way Fuentes is worth Lidge money.
On another note, I was thinking about how much money Lidge could have gotten if he’d hit free agency. Would he have commanded more than K-Rod and Fuentes? Would you rather have a closer who converted every regular season save he was presented with, or one who set a record and blew more than a couple?
But Lidge isn’t available. Fuentes isn’t any more reliable than K-Rod. Besides, he’s 7 years older than Rodriguez and has lost his closing job on a couple of occasions. I think Fuentes=disaster in the making.
I like how they convinced themselves K-Rod isn’t worth it but they convinced themselves last year that Castillo was worth 4 years.
This is what I hate about them. They convince themselves something isn’t worth even before investigating it. If they keep doing this, they will just go back to being a 2nd division team.
I think the whole Castillo thing had to do with the fact that since Castillo was a free agent he was being courted by another team, I believe the Astros. There wasn’t a huge market for second basemen and the Mets people considered Castillo a better choice than Eckstein. In order for them to lock down what I guess they considered a worthy second basemen despite obvious lacking numbers offensively and defensively they pulled the trigger on a contract that ensured an extra year. While this is obviously what happened you gotta look at what was out there last year. If you were Omar who would you have signed?
Btw I personally hope Castillo gets traded or something. Move Murph at second, why not. Do you really need an all-star at every base?
Dont compare this to Luis Castillo. K-Rod isnt worth the money. He wants Mariona Rivera money. You think hes done enough to for that kind of long term deal?
Yes. He’s one of the premiere closers in baseball and is only 27.
I noticed that in every post where Matt mentions Derek Lowe, he throws in “who has 85 career saves”. Is this some sort of hint that the Mets would sign Lowe and use him as a closer?
(personally, I think that notion is beyond ridiculous – so why mention the saves?)
The mets need exactly what the phillies have, constant and steady pitching.
their rotation, aside from hamels, isnt anything spectacular that will blow you out of the water. but they will trot out there night after night and consistantly keep them in the game for 6 – 7 innings. and then they can hand it off to a consistant bullpen.
i hope omar does indeed get “creative,” as he has his work cut out for him
BTW, upon further review, to save face, I would think 5 times before making a trade revolving around Beltran and Bucholz, mostly because Bucholz will be 25. I did not think he was that old.
Still, those who insist that Bucholz is terrible based on his 2008 results do not realize that he probably has the best stuff of all pitching prospects in baseball. I don’t know what happened to him in ‘08, but Beltran for Bucholz, Elsbury (also a bit old for his level at 26) Crisp (to take his salary) and a guy like Josh Reddick might be a good idea if we have good reason to think that Bucholz will rebound
lol where did this come from?
I had stated in another thread that I might trade Beltran for Bucholz straight up; now I acknowledged that I might have been a bit silly/crazy to do so, particularly in light of the fact that he’s 25 years old.
At the same time, a trade revolving around those two should be given some consideration, if we have reason to suspect that Bucholz will rebound; and he can’t be as bad as he was in 2008.
Buchholz is the Boston equivalent of Phil Hughes who just so happens to have a no-hitter. All hype, not really a lot to show for it.
Bucholz has 3 + pitches that he can command and a good slider. He ain’t hype; there’s a reason why BP rates him higher than Joba Chaimberlain. He’s a “beware guy” because of his bad ‘08, but he is legit.
Price v. Bucholz is an interesting comp.
‘he probably has the best stuff of all pitching prospects in baseball.”
No, that’s David Price.
I would argue David Price and Clayton Kershaw as both having better stuff than Buchholz.
Even if Price and Kershaw have better stuff–and that’s debatable–Bucholz is right with them at the top of the list, and he can be bought much lower than either. Price, for one, isn’t going anywhere and we have nothing to offer the Dodgers that they need. The Sox, on the other hand, are a big market team that is a perpetual contender, has a very deep and reliable farm system (look at how Hanley worked out, and don’t sell Sanchez short just yet) and could use a Center Field upgrade. It’s a good fit.
Great, let’s sign a bum who couldn’t handle the Rockies closer job. In Omar we trust, lol.
Better than signing an overpriced closer who will hamstring the Mets for nearly a decade.
I would use Delgado in a midseason trade as my main venue for acquiring a relief ace, although it would take more than that to part ways wit him.
i call bs.
this is omar sending a message to boras that k-rod is not his only option for a closer. it’s really the only move omar has in his pocket as EVERYONE knows the mets’ primary need is the closer.
i agree that the mets’ primary need is a closer and everyone knows it, however there arent any other large market teams (read: teams that could afford Krod) that need his services.
this is omar saying that yes, the mets do indeed need a closer going forward, but Krod doesnt have the upper hand and can demand anything he wants because if he does the mets have other options they can and will pursue.
Bingo.
The Mets would be stupid to go with Fuentes for 3-5 million less a year. Fuentes is an average to below average closer. They are just using him to drive Krod’s price down. If they can’t get Krod then they will make a trade. It will not nor should not be Fuentes. This guy is a poor man’s John Franco, except he cost super star money.
A) 6 million/year is huge.
B) The point is the number of years. Fuentes is older and will not command the number of years K-Rod will. K-Rod will stifle the team for years if he gets anything close to what’s being rumored.
Omar needs to think outside the box here. Again, I’d use Delgado as closer bait.
1) If Krod signs a 5 year contract he won’t be as old as Fuentes is right now when his contract ends.
2) Krod will get 16 a year, tops. Fuentes wants 12-13 a year. That’s only 3 million. If if Krod gets 18 million that’s 5 million. That’s 15 million more than Fuentes during that 3 year contract. Hardley enough to handicap the Mets.
3) If you trade Delgado now, who takes his place on offense? Don’t tell me you would go out and sign Manny for 5 years.
K-Rod is 27 and coming off a record breaking year. You don’t think he will want at least 6 years/$16M?
Fuentes will get 3 years tops, I doubt he’ll break $10M, and I’m not sold on him either. I’m generally against high-priced free agent relievers in general. It’s an inefficient use of money.
It doesn’t really matter who replaces Delgado this year. I don’t particularly care if it’s Val Pascucci. He’s only got one year on his contract and we would be wise to sell high and get value for him. The Rays are a perfect target; they are contenders, they need a legit DH, they have a ton of bullpen arms, and they have a deep system.
This is the year whether we see if Evans/Carp can make a solid platoon in 2010.
“Fuentes will likely seek a three-year, $38 million deal, similar to what Brad Lidge received from the Phillies, according to a report by Ken Rosenthal FoxSports.com.”
If my math is correct then that’s 12.67 million per season. Thus Krod only cost 3.33 million more per season.
And if you are going to trade Delgado and not replace his production at all then why even sign a closer? Just give it to Kunz and we will start rebuilding. Screw next year, right?
Actually, I said that I’m not high on either Fuentes or K-Rod. If Fuentes will want $13M+ K-Rod will try to get $18M and neither IMO will get that kind of money.
I don’t think 2009 is optimal unless we get a guy like Sabbathia.
I don’t trust Kunz yet, tough I do think that there’s hope.
good thing the mets aren’t looking to throw in the towel in ‘09 like you are.
you do realise if/when the phillies clinch, this is only going to put more pressure on the mets to stop screwing around and get serious in terms of filling the holes, right?
omar can play coy all he wants but at the end of the day, the gauntlet will have been thrown down and the phillies will have the upper hand whether we like it or not. this is now the new big rivalry in baseball.
The Mets can’t go into a season thinking rebuild. Fuentes is just not an option. If you want to say Krod is overpriced but will come down but Fuentes is much more over priced considering quality, age and effectiveness.
If you don’t want either, then fine. Think outside the box. Trade for Street or Ryan. Sign Everyday Eddie and Juan Cruz. But to just say trade Delgado and not have a plan how to replace his production then what’s the point? Just go with anyone as closer and move on. Trade Delgado for prospects instead of a closer because it won’t matter if you don’t replace his production in the lineup. We saw that in the begining of this season and much of 2007.
Now if you want to say that you would sign Manny, and trade Delgado. Or even trade Delgado, Heilman and a couple of prospects for Ryan and Overbay and then sign Orlando Hudson. Not just, trade Delgado for anyone and stick a rookie there.
The Mets can push to have a dominant team for the next 4 years or so if they let their payroll ballon to $200MM and sign, say, Burrel or Manny, Sabbathia, and K-Rod if they are allowed 3 A list FA.
It is not the most elegant way of winning, and they might hinder themselves in the long run, but that sort of team would have such good short term chances that it might be worth it. The only trouble is that historically that sort of strategy hasn’t worked, especially for the Mets.
I wouldn’t call ‘09 rebuilding, though I would call it a wait it out type of year. 2009 is, for me, the time to see if F!Mart finally breaks out in the higher minors, if Carp, Evans, and Gee sustain their great 2008 levels of production, if Niese is for real, if Murphy can handle 2nd base, if Ike Davis turns his game around, if Wilmer and Marte continue to tear up the competition, if guys like Holt, Rustich, and Mejia mature into top-flight pitching prospects, and so on.
There is too much in the air for the Mets to commit right now in my opinion. By 2009, you’ll have a better grip on what it is exactly that we have here.
there’s no such thing as winning elegantly. it’s about winning, period.
I think the Mets should sign feuntes, and trade for jojima soria, sign either Lowe or aj burnett..i think with signing both soria and feuntes the 8th and ninth innings would be as close to a lock as possible, plus you can have a rotation of Santana, Burnett/Lowe, Pelfrey, Maine, and Neise>>or let neise develop another year and sign a Garcia or pitcher like that..I dont think that is too much to do in the pitching area…then i think the mets should sign o hudson, trade delgado, heliman and show for magglio ordonez, This puts murphy at first, o hudson at 2nd, mags in rt and church in left..GO TO BATTLE!!!
Right, LOL>
THE ROYALS ARE NOT TRADING SORIA. Why would they do this? I thought we put that to bed a long time ago.
Unless you are trading Fmart, Niese and Wimer then it’s not going to happen. Not to mention what crack Detroit would have to be smoking to do the other trade.
Stop the insanity.
LOL
Beltran for Bucholz, Delgado and mediocre relievers for Ordonez, and let’s give ODog that 6- year, $100 mil contract his career stats truly show he’s worth!!
Sign CC and try to trade for Putz.
I really don’t understand why people:
A) Don’t understand the concept of selling high and buying low
B) Don’t understand value for the dollar
C) Can’t tell the difference between Beltran for Bucholz straight up and Beltran for Bucholz, Ellsbury, and Reddeck
D) Think that they’re bright by saying “Hey! Let’s spend a ton of money and do obvious things!”
Or can’t read the report to understand that Fuentes wants 3/38. Those type of people are insane.
I don’t understand why:
A) People don’t understand how good Beltran really is, and how much production we would lose if we traded him. At bat and in the field.
B) People think the Red Sox would want to trade their hottest pitching prospect (who had pretty good success in about 10 starts in AAA this year, and is 24) and their young center fielder for Beltran and his gigantic contract. A value for the dollar issue?
C) And no offense, but I think trading Beltran in any of your contexts is not the best move.
i don’t understand why people like joe orsulak want to trade our valuable commodities for unproven talent when we’re about to open a brand new park in ‘09 looking up at the potential world champion phillies.
what a wonderful message to send to fan base right off the jump. thanks for shelling your hard-earned dough for this new ball-park but we’ve already traded away carlos beltran and carlos delgado and have a bunch of stiffs surrounding wright and reyes.
say hello to fourth place!
We are not trading our Warrior in CF unless the Cards call and offer Pujols, or the Giants offer maybe Lincecum and Cain and their best minor league centerfielder (if they have a good minor league centerfielder, which is doubtful).
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I should have left this alone, but I cannot imagine who would want to trade Beltran.
Depending on the package it is an option. However, to make that package an option would require 3 above average younger players and I don’t see a team doing that.
Sure if the Sox were going to send us Ellsbury, Bucholz, and Pedroia then you have to do it. But Boston would never do it.
Sure if the Padres were going to trade Peavy and Gonzalez but again….
Kingman is contradicting himself. He states that trading Beltran would be foolish because Bucholz is unproven, but he also says that the Red Sox would be foolish to trade Bucholz for Beltran because of value/dollar and he’s a top prospect. In other words both teams sacrifice one thing for another. If the Red Sox are concerned with money, I would be glad to take Coco Crisp off their hands.
I am fully aware that Beltran’s production is impossible to replace, but let’s not forget that Beltran’s contract ends in three years, precisely when his decline begins, and we are going to have to replace him eventually anyway. He is at a high point in his value as he is a bargain for three more years and you could get a lot for him. If you keep him, you limit yourself to a three year horizon and you get nothing for him except a draft pick.
In other words, Wright and Reyes have 8 years left, but they are now approaching their paydays. We now have to think about building young around them instead of surrounding them with veterans.
When you return from fantasy land please let us all know!
AND LOSE!~
hi, reality called…
..and hung up right away when they realized they had the wrong number…..
I agree. that’s smart.
Omar is “going to be creative”
Which would basically mean he gets away from the 2 staples of his regime:
1) Throwing a lot of money at a player
2) Acquiring old, broken down players
So yeah, I’d love to see Omar get “creative”
Maybe he should call Gillick for advice. He’s so much better than Omar it’s laughable
I would love to see you get creative and post thing but the same junk all the time.
I’m someone who thinks the Mets — with a new stadium paid in full and more by taxpayers and a bank, and with their own TV network — could easily afford a payroll approaching 200 million, and should have one at that level, and even I don’t want them to sign K-Rod.
They could afford it, but I think the Wilpons would much rather spend about $150 mil or so and pocket the other $50 mil.
I wish it were otherwise, but that is probably the path they will choose.
And I agree 100% on KRod.
But we can still win with the right couple of moves.
CC and Putz, that’s my armchair amateur solution.
I do like the idea of CC. We only have 1 legitimate SP candidate in the minors right now for the next 3 years at least. Go ahead and spend the money to lock in 4 younger starters in Santana, CC, Pelfrey and Maine. Then you have the option of letting Niese battle for the #5 spot.
Yes he will cost 22 million for 6 years. That’s 22 of the 42 we have. Then you have Delgado for 12 million. That leaves you with 8 million to fix the pen. Sign Juan Cruz and Everday Eddie. Trade a few of the other pieces and you are set.
I know I have said this many times, but CC helps on so many levels….not just how young, reliable, and good he is, and how many games he can win with our offense, but he makes Pelf and Maine so much better by making them our 3 and 4 starters instead of 2 and 3, he makes the pen SO much better by eating up so many more innings, and 1-2 punches from Koufax/Drysdale to Seaver/Koosman, to Palmer/McNally/Cuellar, to Johnson/Schilling to Pedro/Schilling can win titles if surrounded by the kind of team we can put around Johan and CC. We have talent comparable or better than what all of those title tandems had, except maybe the 1970 Orioles.
CC, and then Putz or Cruz/Eddie.
Agreed or finally getting Street from the A’s. Either way CC is the best option IF you are signing any of the big 3.
I think Krod is an option and they should be in the market for him. I would offer him a market value contract and a deadline and then move on. If we did not get him I would look at bringing in Everday Eddie and Juan Cruz to close as a tandum. Then allow Parnell and Kunz to be in this years pen and see if either can work their way up to closer.
Pen
Cruz, Eddie, Stokes, Smith, Parnell, Kunz, LRHP.
The more I think about it the more I would rather than sign Fuentes. Fuentes is old but K-rod’s motion just scares the crap out of me. Plus the idea of spending 60 million on a closer makes my head spin. You should be able to get a decent middle of the rotation starter for that.
So the idea of signing a 27 year old for 5 years scares you more than signing a 33 year old for 3 years? Fuentes wants 12.5+ million a season.
Yeah because I think K-rod is a bigger injury risk, and more likely to have a career altering injury. And we’d be on the hook for more money longer.
Just to verify I don’t particularly want to sign either. But between the two I’d rather go after Fuentes.
I just don’t see Krod as MORE of an injury risk than a 33 year old average closer who wants 3 years. Krod’s delivery has already been changed to lessen stress and he has developed a much more useful changeup. Again, I am not saying sign Krod. I am saying DO NOT SIGN FUENTES.
i want nothing to do with fuentes.
sny, new stadium, jacked up tickets prices in a bad economy…the wilpons still go at it on the cheap for free agent.
sign k-rod
if the mets can sign cc that would be optimal but idont think that will happen…this phillies winning it all business is really irrritating…but it still doesnt feel as bad as the cards in ‘06 did cause we were so close then…but that reminds me…please get rid of heilman and castillo as they both are like anchors holding us down…
Ok i had a big ellaborate post that was in depth yet down to the piont. so i post….
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grr
so i lost it
but basically wat it said was i dont want a 36 yr. old left handed closer down the road thats the next brandon looper.
Krod is what we need and whats availible without giving up guys.
Krod wont cost all that much more. I think this contract is good for both sides.
09′ 14.5 mil
10′ 14.5 mil
11′ 14.5 mil(average per. year)
12′ 15.75 mil (player may opt out of contract after 3rd year)
13′ 16.5 mil team option(turns into a player option if recorded 150 saves as Met)
Feedback is welcome
Tell me what you think =]