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Last week, in a report for the Daily News, Bill Madden wrote about Phillies GM Pat Gillick, who discussed how his team and the rest of the NL East hate the Mets.
Yesterday, in a report for SI.com, Jon Heyman quotes Gillick as saying of the Mets:
“I think sometimes it’s good to be celebratory, but sometimes it reaches the point where they’re taunting the other the team. Everyone should have the opportunity to celebrate. But there’s a fine line, and sometimes they tend to go over the line and taunt the other team.”
According to Heyman, Phillies SS Jimmy Rollins agreed, when asked if teams in the NL East ‘detest the Mets, adding,’ “In spring training next year go to each clubhouse and you’ll get a number of answers.”
Last week I wrote, “So, does this mean the Mets can now only win if teams love them? What does that even mean? Seriously, who cares if teams hate the Mets? Hey, how about the Mets just play better baseball and win on their own effort, and not care about 
what other people think of them. How about that? How about, instead of backing down, the Mets fight back.”
This is going to be a story in spring training, mark my words. These reporters will not forget about this – at least, I hope they do not forget about it. Because, instead of the Mets running from this, and letting these teams get in to their heads, they should take it on as something to rally around.
Jerry Manuel should use this to his advantage. He should make this an us-against-them type of fight, more than it usually is. He should make his team aware of the apparent fact that his squad is on the outside, that they have not won anything in two years, yet that they’re hated and nobody likes them. He should try to put a chip on this team’s shoulder, get them in a foxhole, make them gangsta, whatever you want to call it, and challenge them to truly give this division something to hate them for, like winning, and winning hard.
I share this mantra. I know it sounds trite, but athletes really do derive motivation from the “us against the world” and “nobody respects us” mentalities. It would be very wise for Jerry to tap into this well.
I watch a lot of baseball. They have the extra innings package where I work. I really don’t notice the Mets celebrating more than other teams. I have no idea what Rollins and these other NL East teams are talking about. I’d like some more information about this. Maybe SNY can dig into its video footage and find some proof. The Mets do their hand shakes but I hardly find a handshake to be inflammatory. Reyes does his dancing and clapping but thats his personality, he just seems like a goofy guy. Unless there are things actually said between the players that no one is mentioning this whole story doesn’t even make sense.
And all season long, Reyes has kept most of that stuff in the dugout. It’s nowhere near as big or obtrusive as it was in years past.
I understand that point…It doesn’t seem too much. I think the other teams despise us for a number of reasons like Rollins said, and this was just something that gets him. Its easy to find things you detest when you don’t really like each other.
I think playing in the biggest sports market in the world (New York City) has something to do with it, as well. I mean, players of other teams, especially the peripheral ones, don’t get anywhere NEAR the attention ballplayers in New York get.
For example, I would venture to argue 50% of all baseball fans know who Aaron Heilman is. Yet when someone asks about Ryan Madson or Matt Lidstrom, they won’t konw who they are.
It’s just the way the sports media is configured. ESPN, most of the major news networks are situated in the heart of the city so naturally players of New York’s two franchises will get more coverage.
Jealousy. It’s an ugly thing…
i tell you what…to me this is more of a knock against those other nl east teams than it is against the mets. If these teams like the marlins, braves, and nationals only play as hard as they can against the mets that is very, very sad and it shows why these teams have finished in the bottom 3 spots in the division the past few years. I mean these 3 teams are pathetic now seriously and so are the phillies for still bringing it up on the verge of a ws title…i truly think the mets talk less than any other team in the league…i mean they may dance but whatever theyre having fun…heyman even said it himself yesterday that the phillies are bad in the clubhouse and the mets guys are nice
We need to start rolling gangsta
Everyone hated the 86 Mets too!
I def agree…but it would also be wise to provide Jerry a team that is capable of winning.
So is this the type of post we are going to get every slow day this offseason? Who cares if teams like us or not. Have we not covered this over and over?
aparently not enough
the celebrations are just as silly and juvenile as they look.
people defend them here, yet it’s the same people who love that Daniel Murphy means business, and is the no nonsense player we’ve been waiting for.
You may find this shocking, but it’s very possible to mean business while having fun at the same time.
you may be shocked to know too that you can have fun and not display juvenile look-at-me antics
How big is that stick up your arse?
yep… juvenile… like i said
This is coming from a guy who 90% of his post have something to do with firing Omar even though the Mets just gave him a 3 year extension. Pout much?
that’s pretty funny and true … but I’m convinced that Omar is clueless, and so until he’s gone that issue trumps all else, imo
who cares if we celebrate? I want to watch a team have fun winning…whenever that is. We have many holes and many weaknesses but these last few years have provided us, at times, with some fun baseball to watch. I’d rather watch them celebrate and lose than look plain and boring (perception-wise) and lose.
This is NYC…not Kansas City…we do things in style here…
Now…if you were to tell me we could win a WS while watching boring plain baseball…then I’m all ears…but thats no slam-dunk.
It does not matter though. It’s not something that will change in the near future. Move on. It’s like complaining about not winning in 2006. You can’t change it.
its just not a valid argument to hate the mets when you team does it too…thats my opinion
That is also Murphy’s personality. That is not Jose Reyes personality. You can not change Jose Reyes into Murphy. He won’t be himself and won’t perform like he does.
Jose has be himself just like any ball player should be themselves.
Ok Jose stop being yourself because other teams don’t like it.
WHO CARES IF OTHER TEAMS HATE YOU.
Remember early in ‘08…Reyes attempted to be more calm and quiet, and as a result, his level of play declined…Beltran told Jose to be himself, and when all was said and done, Reyes led the league in hits.
I think the point is that for whatever reason, Rollins and others in his head seem to feel that the antics are done with the other team in mind. When Reyes celebrates, I feel he is genuinely happy for himself and his teammates and doesn’t care who the pitcher or opposing team is. Reyes clearly is NOT trying to show anyone up. Darryl Strawberry walked around the bases when he hit a HR against someone he didn’t like. Hernandez, Carter and Knight were clearly aware of their enemies and played harder and celebrated more against them. Joba Chamberlain celebrated extra hard when he Kd a guy who took him deep the last time they faced each other. I’m just not sure where this is coming from. Wright doesn’t do it at all. Delgado only does handshakes, but otherwise refuses curtain calls to not show up opponents, Beltran is the quietest guy ever… WHO IS ROLLINS REFERRING TO?
Well put Matt,
The Mets should care less if other teams hate them and other teams comming out and saying they dislike the Mets should be considered “bulletin board material” to the Mets.
To me these other teams comming out and saying this BS, is just as bad, if not worse than anything they claim the Mets do to tick people off. I mean why are the Phillies GM and thier so called on the field leader even talking about the Mets right now in the first place, when they are on the verge of winning the world series.
Sure, why not.
For the last 2 years, they couldn’t get motivated enough over bitter defeats the previous season. Now the new motivational tactic is is to “give them something to really hate us for”
Yeah, this is gonna work.
It’s not about the motivational tactics, it’s about how soft this team is. I’m sure Reyes has danced around a few times today and it’s only 9:48
And Wright is still a scared b*tch.
New players please. WINNERS please. Tough guys please.
don’t worry. Omar’s gonna get us Randy Winn and Benjie Molina.
As-suming we upgrade our SP and BP what would be wrong with that? You really think that a lineup of
Reyes, Murphy, Wright, Beltran, Delgado, Molina, Church, Winn is not deep enough?
So Omar is admitting that he threw Milledge away to get Schneider, who he now suddenly no longer has the hots for.
He really has no plan for this club does he
I think it’s plenty deep. You get two guys in Winn and Molina who each will hit near .300 at the bottom of the lineup. And yeah, they’re in the mid 30’s – but we have a couple of big prospects for their positions who may be ready in a year or two.
as-suming we upgrade SP and BP, sure…
So if we traded Milledge for Schnieder and Church and then turned Schnieder and a couple of lower prospects into Molina and Winn then it’s a failed trade?>
I am sure we HAVE to upgrade the pen and SP as we have too many holes not to.
Church was a bigger part of that package than Schneider was. Yes we needed a catcher, but Church (ideally) provided us with a more seasoned all-around player than Milledge. Lastings may have had more upside, but Omar was going for the playoffs in 2008, and I think we had a better chance doing that with Church than Milledge….Its easy to say thats not true, but its unfair to knock Church b/c of the unforeseen injuries. And he wasn’t the same the rest of the year.
Milledge has a really good chance to already be more productive than Church next year. There is an emormously great chance that it’s going to prove a bad trade, and it was always leaning heavily that way
So it looks like Omar failed on all counts in that deal.
Church is lucky he got concussed because he would’ve reverted to his mediocre self given time
have you looked at milledges numbers compaired to church..milledge barley has better numbers playing almost double the games that church did…
Can someone please give you a concussion so you would revert back to a Mets fan?
Church in 2007 had over 60 Extrabase hits. That’s not bad for your first full season. He came out hot and we will see next year if that was a fluke or not. But to whine about Milledge is laughable at best. This is a guy that was self destructive and his trade value had fallen so badly that getting productive major leaguers at all was a stretch.
Shhh, stop providing stats Dirty. It does not help their point. Then they will say that Milledge is young, like that some how proves that he will be good. Then they will say that Church’s season was a fluke, yet Milledge’s was a sure sign of an allstar. Leave it alone.
Who knows which Ryan Church will show up. The may-version was a very balanced hitter who went the other way and played steady to above-average RF defense. Milledge will never be a balanced hitter. He will provide alot of pop, but he will be a streaky hitter with a big hole in his swing. Plus, he is very inconsistent in OF. I do love when he was playing as a softball-roamer while he was a CF against us.
There is certainly more potential with Lastings…and it may turn out to be a bad trade…but will it be slightly bad(hopefully) or really really bad(kazmir-style)..that remains to be seen.
I say hopefully…b/c the trade’s in the past and it wasn’t that great of a trade to begin with…but we’ll see what happens.
Look at Milledge’s second half numbers.
Look at Church’s.
And this is Church 2.0 post-concussion. He might never be the same. I’m not an unreasonable poster.
It was a bad trade in theory at the time of execution and looks like it will play itself out as a bad trade on the field.
So you want to forget the first half of the season and just use the second for Church. Yet for Milledge just the 2nd half and not the first? Nice.
Dude, I haven’t even brought up their relative ages. I’m taking it easy on you with this one.
of course real..that would help their arguement…
you are going to hang your case based off their age…danny please tell me you got something more than milledge is better because he was born in 1985 lol
Yes, age has nothing to do with how a player should be expected to progress. Silly me.
just an fyi-2008 stats
Lastings Milledge-138games 523ab’s
.268avg/.330obp/14hrs/61rbi/.402slg
Fielding CF
.986field%/ 2.65rf/.864zr
Ryan Church-90games 319ab’s
.276avg/.346obp/12hrs/49rbi/.439slg
Fielding RF
.995field%/ 2.33rf/.887zr
right now how about we focus on what we DO know rather than what he is “expected” to do….
If you base all trades on what a player has already done with no consideration to what he might do in the future, you would make a horrible GM.
Oh, and Milledge after August 1 last year: 223 PA, .318/.378/.485/.863
Dude stinks and has no promise.
But he’s younger Dirty…..
I guess Danny also expects that Milledge would have had those numbers here in NY with all the distractions of NY media and a playoff race. Right?
So Church because he was never given a chance in Washington until 2007 has no chance to improve while Milledge who is known for self destructing does? Church had over 60 extrabase hits in his first semi fulll season (450 AB’s I believe). To start the season he looked like a well rounded player that was headed to an allstar game. Yet he can’t improe and Milledge has to?
Church wasn’t given a chance because partly his minor league track record is not even in Milledge’s stratosphere.
Milledge was an awesome hitter in the minor leagues. Teams are going to give him every opportunity to hit in the big leagues because of that.
Church had a nice 2-month stretch and everyone claimedd victory in the trade, but we need to take a step back here.
So according to TheReal, Milledge’s value fell so low getting anyone was an accomplishment.
So by your own admission, Omar failed because he traded low – at the lowest as a matter of fact
Gotcha.
With defenders like you, he doesn’t need enemies.
Danny what im saying is if you were to evaluate the trade right now….you can make a strong case that omar really came out ahead on that deal by ditching estrada and milledge for schnider and church..while schnider was not steller he was much better than estrada..and while milledge finished with slightly better numbers..he had way more ab’s than church did and still church numbers were close to milledges numbers. You can evaluate this trade year after year but bottom line you nor I know what milledge will evolve into. You cannot make an argument about stats we dont know about danny that is my point. What we do know now about this trade is that omar pulled away with better stuff than washington…will that be the same later on..who knows..
yes age does play a factor but a very very small factor…not everyone under the age of 25 is a superstar danny and my point is up to this point of the trade church and milledge are comparible. we dont know what milledge will amount to if anything.
All I wanna know is WHY did we have Anderson Hernandez in the roster for the ‘06 playoffs and not Milledge… was he hurt?
Hey shouldn’t you be on Beerleaguer..phillies phan???
I’m so sick of this story, and the hypocrisy of these other teams and the media, as if the Mets are the only team with players that “show-up” other teams on the field. I mean, don’t any of these guys even watch professional sports? They should all sit down and watch one NFL game and they’ll see more celebrating in that one game than the Mets do all season.
The Mets need to get some more fire next year, and take it to these clowns. Everyone else wants to hate? Fine, give them a real reason to hate, not stupid made-up reasons. Go DX on ‘em. “Us against the world”, indeed.
Ah, Furioso only 8 posts in! It’s a good day!
Like i posted the last time this was a topic
Kat Williams says it the best:
“You need haters. What the **** is you complaining about? What the **** do you think a haters job is? To ****ing hate. So let them mother****er do their g*ddamn job…Ladies if you got 14 women hating on you, you need to figure out how the **** to get to 16 before the summer get here…Fellas if you got 20 haters, you need 40 of them mother****ers…If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me.”
-And if the phills gm thinks the mets celebrate too much…maybe he should take a look at victorino or the phillys bench bowing in praise when that pitcher(forgot the name at the moment) hit the hr…pretty hypocritcal….
haha, Kat Williams would definitely qualify as “gangsta” to Jerry Manuel maybe he should play that bit on the TVs in the clubhouse next year for everyone.
Philly sports teams are the worst… has anyone seen the Eagles Defense.. they celebrate every tackle like they just won the super bowl… Hopefully Tampa can turn this thing around tonight… I cant bear the thought of a WS champion that we beat pretty consistently this year with ALL of the issues we had
Bah, Khat Williams may be a good comedian, but he’s a terrible breakdancer.
While I agree in part that teams not liking the Mets should not effect their ability to have a winning season. There is another side to this story. Do teams not play hard against teams they don’t dislike. Does a Nationals or Marlins team out of the race not play the Phils as hard as the Mets. Isn’t that unfair? Like I said I agree that if you win then none of this matters. But when teams gun for you it does mean every game is harder for you then others. We’ll see if teams play “harder” against the Phils next year since they made it to the WS.
Great points!
Apparently their hatred for New York supersedes any sense of a fair competitive balance. It’s atrocious and ruins the competitive balance in the division. (Or at least the perception of said balance.) When guys like Kelly Johnson on the Braves are saying they want to “help the Phillies out”… that’s on-field collusion worthy of a Commissioner’s Office investigation, just as off-field collusion warrants.
Especially when the Braves went 4-14 against the Phillies this year.
Look it up, that is actually their record against them.
I agree although you think no matter how hard the nats or braves play we should win but it definitely is unfair bc say we put up a 3 spot in the 2nd inning against those teams they will fight and claw back if they can but i feel like against philly they would just say ok its over and kind of mail it in from there.
This whole line of logic is hilarious.
I also think this whole thing is funny. Yeah, like the Braves are going to let Philly win, but not let the Mets win…. If only it were that easy. Face it, the Phils are a better team.
The reason everybody hates the Mets is because of the attitude of many New Yorkers…. an attitude that they are better than everyone else, just because they are from New York. All of us out here in “flyover country” are laughing at you.
“instead of the Mets running from this, and letting these teams get in to their heads, they should take it on as something to rally around”.
…… Yeah, like they did with the 2007 collapse.
Well to be fair…Willie wanted to turn the page and not look back at 2007. Willie dragged this team along for 2 months. Instead, maybe he should have used 2007 as a motivational tool instead of burying it in the back of you’re head. Isn’t that a rule in AA, confront the problem otherwise it will never be fixed?
I can’t say if Jerry ever tried or not…so who knows.
I agree on the sentiment, but don’t agree on the “foxhole” mentality. And I think this isn’t about Jerry right now, it’s about Omar. I don’t post that much anymore, but a couple of days ago I weighed in talking about how we need players, and a manager that get back to the confident swagger we had in 86, 88, 98-00, and 06. All those teams, while very different in some ways, had that inner “hate us if you want, we’re going to beat you anyway” conceit about them. You HAVE to have that to win in New York. ‘69 was a novelty, ‘73 a fluke.
I don’t think Manuel brings that swagger with him, but as we saw in ‘06 when you have leaders playing well that have that swagger (Wagner, LoDuca) you don’t necessarily need the manager to provide that.
Omar’s job, especially with mixing in new position players, is to find guys with that swagger–guys like, frankly, a Jimmy Rollins, that like to stir the drink. You need the “nice guy” leaders on the team like Wright (much as a John Olreud or Gary Carter were), but you need that counter-balance as well. I think Bobby Valentine really provided that for the late ’90s Mets, and was a great fit to give the Mets the personality they desperately need now.
So, to me, it’s not a “everyone hates us, so let’s band together” but “everyone hates us–awesome–let’s make sure it stays that way.” If you don’t like having teams a little extra psyched to beat you, and enjoy beating them down, then, simply, you shouldn’t be playing in New York. That’s the challenge Omar has as the Mets GM as opposed to other teams. I hope he realizes that in this offseason given the managerial decision he’s made.
You know what’s tiring…that most fans can’t admit the fact that ‘08 wasn’t a collapse, the mets were just not talented enough to get it done…end of story….
I agree, and I’ve said it before. Too many injuries and not nearly enough bullpen.
it was frustrating that we were so close and couldnt get it done but when you really break it down it is amazing we were even there considering we lost maine and wagner down the stretch along with having no real corner outfielders mostly all year and seemingly every reliever sporting a 5+ era.
Am I the only one who doesn’t get the Rollins quote?
“In spring training next year go to each clubhouse and you’ll get a number of answers.”
What does that mean in context of this article or the question asked?
meaning that some people hate the mets and some peolpe dont…if you go around in spring training youll get a better sense as to what people “truly” feel
Right, I get that. But Rollins’ answer just seems really obvious that doesn’t address the author’s point.
“If you ask the question to multiple people on multiple teams of whether the Mets are hated or not, you will receive multiple answers back.” Garsh, thanks Jimmy!
It would have been more supportive if Rollins had said, “If you ask the question you’ll receive ONE answer.”
This isn’t a bust on Rollins, I’m just really not sure what the point of that quote is.
ah now i see what you mean. Its just ur usual baseball answer that doesnt give an answer but i dont what to go on record about saying something that will bite me in the arse answer. Standard procedure
heyman also made some interesting points about the difference between the players on the mets and the phillies. praised the mets team for being a great, media friendly group of players in the clubhouse. said that the phillies are basically just not interesting or particularly media friendly…utley is dull and so is howard. he thinks rollins is cool though some other media types complain it takes rollins too long to get dressed before meeting them (go figure!) he said there are some really bad guys on the phillies so when pressed about who is the worst, he said the one really nasty guy? burrell…he says that burrell is the real hater and that he likes to influence new players on the team with that nasty attitude.
In fairness; how many times did the Rays have to play the Red Sox and Yankees and even the Blue Jays this past season? Talk about “gunning for you”!
If we build a winning team, the opposition can watch Jose dance and like it!
Come on Omar, let’s get it on!
Exactly! If they are gonna pull this crap, then build a winning team and let Jose dance all over the top of the dugout. F*** em.
Last comment (maybe)… Gillick’s resume as a GM is undeniable; he’s one of the games historical bests. But if he’s going to make silly hypocritical comments like this, he’d better first take a good hard look at his team… at Victorino… at Howard… at Romero… at Madsen… at Werth… at Rollins.
For the record, I don’t care at all about these guys “celebrating” (and they do.) They should just stop being such hypocrites about the whole thing. They should realize that they are not the golden standard of wholesome baseball decorum.
Excellent post.
Good post matt. This whole issue is so ridiculous. Like the mets are the only team in the history of baseball to celebrate. The phillies whine like little girls, and ignore the fact that ryan howard walks about halfway to first when he hits a pop up to left that goes out at CBP. And victorino, who does most of the complaining constantly acts like he’s never been there before.
just shut up and play the game.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t baseball a game? Meant to be fun? Yes, I know you’re comeback that it’s big business, blah, blah, blah! Guess what, it’s still the same friggin’ game played by Little Leaguers on up. No matter what happens tonight or whenever Game 5 is finished, we all still have to get up tomorrow and go to work or go to school. Baseball and sports in general are supposed to be an escape from the everyday business we deal with. Now we’re trying to make sports ultra-serious? Give me a break!
Beautiful. Just beautiful. I’ve got friends/students agonizing about the idea that the Phillies are about to win a World Series. I’m over it. If they win, let them win. They’re a good team and they’ve earned it. They win, they lose, my life stays the same either way.
By the way, anyone catch the backpage screaming headline of the Post or Daily News yesterday? “We hate the Cowboys!” Damn, I thought the Mets had exclusivity on being hated. Oh wait, Cowboys, Yankees, Notre Dame – you either love em or you hate em. Happens all the time folks.
In a duinking booth, do you try harder to dunk the quiet guy, or the guy with the loud mouth singing na-na-na-nah-na
the phillies arent quiet. they celebrate just as much as anyone and to top it off after 2006 when they did nothing rollins told the media they were the team to beat. how did that comment not warrant hatred from other teams in the division?
They went out and backed him up, didn’t they?
Didn’t Beltran say the same thing about the Mets this year? That didn’t turn out so well, did it.
The fact is, you can say or do anything as long as you’re winning. Dancing Reyes hasn’t DONE anything since they won the NL East in 2006. If you win, it’s called swagger. If you lose, it’s called a lot of unflattering things. It’s the difference between admiring a homer up 10-2 in the World Series and running around the bases with the “we’re number one” gesture in the air in June.
When Rollins made the comment it was the beginning of the season – Philly did not win anything yet and the other teams in the division didn’t mind the comment. The Mets made that comment in the beginning of this season and were hated right off the bat. Nobody knows at the beginning of the season whether they can back it up or not. The reaction from other teams were different when it came from Philly. Nobody cared! This is about NY and a larger fan base. If you already hate NY, anything the team does will be maginfied much greater.
omar’s got to go for it this year. he’s got to stop valuing experience over production.
Was Jason Werth taunting when he hit his game 4 Home Run that made it an 8 run lead? Because his running around first with his hand in the air and finger extended seemed awfully familiar to the horrible, disgraceful, felon-worthy act that that bad bad man Jose Reyes has done before. What a shock no one mentioned it. If it was Jose you know it would have been shown over and over again.
Its all about New York and how much press the Mets young players have gotten and the bitterness the other teams young stars in New York feel about them and the press they get. And the media feeds into it and therefore the Mets are arrogant and show off when in fact they celebrate just as much as every other team. This story is such a joke.
Yeah Jason Werth did it.. in the World Series… in a game they were winning 8-2.. in a game that took them to a 3-1 lead in the Series.
If the Mets were in the Series and Reyes hit a triple and did the Macarena on third, I wouldn’t care. It’s the Series. The playoffs are different. Doing that stuff in the regular season doesn’t fly though.
I agree with what Matt said 100%. Who cares if other teams don’t like you.
After everything that happened in 2007 and everything that happened earlier on this year I really thought the Mets would go into September this year with a chip on there shoulder and just roll over everybody. I really did. After they swept the Brewers I really thought they would be fired up this September and just win any way necessary. I thought they would be out to prove that 2007 was a fluke and they are still the team.
But they did not play like that. This team needed to show more fight and more spark.
I think the Mets tried to hide to much from what happened in 2007 instead of playing the final few weeks like they were out to prove something, it seemed to me like in 2007 they played like ahh we got this if we lose today whatever we will come get them tomorrow.
The Mets did not lose these last two seasons because other teams hated them more then the Phillies. That is the most stuipdest thing I ever heard.
The Mets being hated did not stop Santana from absolutely dominating down the stretch and it was not the reason why the Mets other star players did not perform well down the stretch.
Other teams can complain about the mets celebrations, but that is hypocricy given how other teams do the same. the hatred really is coming from jealousy. the mets and their players get much more media attention and acclaim (jose reyes is the most exciting player in baseball!!!) and the mets fans are everywhere cheering for their team in opposing stadiums. Other teams hate this stuff
I think what Matt’s saying is that had Jerry been given a chance to run the 08 spring training — even with the injuries and the BP…
Time to face that the Wilpons have turned us into Brooklyn Dodgers fans, living for counterfactuals and attributing performance to intangibles, writing down good and mediocre players alike when the outcome is no good. Granted this is better than if we’d been morphed into Yankee frontrunners.
I don’t get writing down DWright, Jose, and the Mole. They are three of the best players ever to wear Met uniforms. It just doesn’t matter what other teams say they think about Jose. They’d all love to have him as their SS, even the Phillies.
I see comment pressure to bring in a warrior to show the kids how to fight for wins. They have the best bullfighter in the game at the top of the rotation; they can always use warriors but they’ve got the best.
The problem is arms. I’ve seen people put 06 on Heilman, but they wouldn’t have needed that game if someone besides Trachsel had been in the rotation.
I see comment pressure on Omar to build a real bullpen without trading away the arms on the farm; what about the rotation.
I see comment pressure to get a liability like Dunn or Holliday. The Mets had two of the top ten in the MLB for rbis, and Beltran was #11. I know, I know, rbi is a watery statistic. Still. Switch to slugging, and the top two producers are both on the Cardinals . OBP and OPS point even less to the postseason. (VORP, PECOTA, Abe Vigoda…) An extra bat would be nice, but remember how big Shawn Green made right field look?
Get three decent relievers and another starter. Get CC. And get the starters into the seventh consistently.
To put it another way: just win already.
What a non-story. I think when one goes to work for the Phillies organization or is a Phillies fan, one become instantly suspicious and/or jealous of everyone and anything New York City related. I have not seen the Mets celebrate any more than other teams. The thing is – I think these guys fixate on the Mets to use it to motivate themselves more than anything else. And it works for them. And it also plays on the insecurity of Mets fans which is also a plus for them. If the Wilpons and Omar put a truly balanced team on the field and the Mets took care of their own business, this would all be so laughable.
what i’m about to post might be the most played out thought on this board but nevertheless its something that deserves constant attention.
Fred Wilpon has let Omar Minaya change the philosophy of a 40 year tradition. Omar has changed the mentality of our franchise from one that prided itself on Blue Collar to a team built around flashiness and marketability. Its not about baseball anymore with the Mets its about a designer name brand.
What I don’t understand is how an old school Brooklyn native and dodger fan could allow his franchise to stray from its roots. Doesn’t Fred realize we are those Brooklyn Dodger fans. The Mets are supposed to represent hard work and grit.
This franchise has Lost it way and must be put back on track. The worst part about this situation is that Omar doesn’t understand his fan base. He thinks that we are Yankee fans and demand a winner every year. I think its time Omar had a history lesson about what this franchise was built on.
The Omar Minaya years will not dictate what this franchise represents. He is trying to change the fan base. He is taking our team away from us. Bringing in a new breed of Mets fan. We should not go quietly into the night! He is a man that has a vision that does not represent the fan base.
Heart.. guts.. a Minaya craves not these things.
So Loquiel its ok to celebrate in the playoffs but not in the regular season. You don’t have a problem with celebrations in October but you have to tone it down in September?? That logic makes no sense. The fact is everyone does it, and the Mets get blamed as if they are doing it all the time and its ridiculous
Everyone plays in September. Not everyone plays in October.
Major League baseball is going in a new direction. This is not 1998 anymore! Teams with home grown players and manageable payrolls are the teams that have risen in the past few season. This is not just coincidence. Its is the new direction of the mlb. So now that we are in the present we can discuss the Real reason why other team hate us.
Ever go to a bar and see that guy with the tight shirt and spiked hair dancing around like he owns the joint? He believes he is something he is not. Sure chick finds him hot but the people that make a difference find him repulsive. Then this tool mouths off to someone and finds himself knocked out. Thats what has happened to the Mets…
Hey Figgy I’m sorry but I have to say this…
Last season I saw a few our HEROES out on the town. Without getting into details, they were the types of guys I mentioned above. The day that mentality takes home a WS title is the day Luis Castillo deserves a 4 year contract.
All you guys complaining what a terrible move it was to trade Milledge…how many of you were screaming for him to be sent away because he was “arrogant, out of line, a bum, a gangster, immature, a troublemaker, etc. etc. etc.?” How many of you even have the honesty to admit it?
I like this Blog and I check it out regularly, but I rarely look at the comments anymore because, frankly, they make me sick. You people profess your supposed love for the game and this team – but hiding in the safety of anonymity criticize every action by the GM, Manager and the players – vehemently – because of course you all know better, you all know what really goes on behind the scenes and of course, each one of you could do a much better job than any of the professionals! And if this isn’t enough, the next day, week, month or even year you will completely turn around and, as vehemently, complain about the exact opposite of your original complaint! Aah, the joy (and indulgence) of anonymous bloggers!!!
Milledge? Really you think the Milledge trade was something this board got up in arms about. Try the Willie situation. That was a brawl. This board is made up of a diverse fan base with differing opinions on everything. There has never been a second where you would find that we all agreed on a situation. You have to be blind not to see the direction Omar Minaya is taking this franchise. Some of us have no problem with it and others like myself think it is destroying the foundation this franchise was built on.
Baseball is a game of hard work, guts, and a no fear attitude. 100 years of baseball tradition. Thats how the game became what it is today and what the future of baseball is all about. Its a Gritty game. The quicker this franchise realizes this the quicker we will see a WS title in Queens. What really turns my stomach is that Brooklyn/Queens were known for that type of attitude and always had a team that represented this philosophy. I would even say that Brooklyn/Queens represented the middle blue collar ways more so than Philidelphia did.
So now we are in a situation where the Mets fan can no longer identify with its team. Something that hasn’t been seen in this town. The Mets regardless of their record always had that blue collar feel.
Baseball should never become Basketball or Football with its Divas and showoffs..
Darth, I agree with your point about Omar. it is very disheartening for lifelong Mets fans….Unfortunately, the wilpons re-signed Omar for four more years so we are stuck. I have no confidence that Omar will fix the problem. He may get new pitchers etc…but he will not change the team to a team of “gritty players” since he is responsible for the current make up of the players on this team and obviously he doesn’t think there is a “clubhouse” problem and no leadership problems. As Mets fans we now get to watch the hard working, gritty, clutch hitting phillies win a world series while our team collapsed two years in a row! Omar got rewarded for failure so unfortunately I think we are doomed to being fans of an underachieving team with a huge payroll and a lack of clutch players for a long time….
I remember another team nobody liked. The ‘86 Mets.
Why do all you miss the point:
YOU
CAN
DANCE
AND
CELEBRATE
ALL
YOU
WANT
AND
EVERYONE
ELSE
CAN
GO
F**KOFF
IF
YOU
WIN
How fu*king dare you compare this team to a world champion team?
BECAUSE THE PHILLIES HAVEN’T WON YET. they’ve been complaining all season but hadn’t done anything more than the meta have in the last few years. if they win now next year they can talk
They’ve already won considerably more than this team ever has. The can do a conga line in front of the Mets dugout if they please. They’re earned it.
You know what the Mets have earned?
Yeah, exactly.
Wrong. You missed the point. At the beginning of the season what had the Phillies done? They won the NL East division in ‘07 (with the help of a Mets choke job) and got swept out of the playoffs. In case you forgot, the Mets had won the diviision in 2006, and advanced farther.
Yes, now the Phillies are on the cusp of potentially winning the WS. And if they do they can run their mouths and talk all they want in 2009. But coming into 2008 they hadn’t done anything more than the Mets had in the last few years. So stop acting like the Phillies are some sort of dynasty with a winning tradition. It’s just not true.
They just won.
Meaning your whole post is now negated.
Homer.
the other NL East teams are just a bunch of jealous homers that wish that they had as much attention that the new york media gives the mets. they need to go and find something else to be jealous about, because quite frankly, they’re just ruining their own reputation. and since when did people start caring about what jimmy “the homer” rollins says anymore? he had one/two good season(s) (which basically every player has), and people think he’s some superstar. He’s just jealous that everyone in new york loves reyes for his style of enthusiam and he’s trying to make it look like a bad thing. rollins isn’t even half as good as reyes is and he never will be. Get used to seeing the 2008 rollins, because that’s all your gonna get out of him from now on. (a 280 average, and 10 homers if he’s lucky).
Does anyone find the Marlins and Nationals anger completely unjustified? It’s like being angry at the smart kid for getting better grades than you.
OK gent’s, it’s over the Phillies are the world aaaagggggghhhhhh i’m going to be sick !
Will somebody please tell me what the hell was Jay Horowitz doing on the field ?
JRoll gets a ring!
D Wright gets……………….nothing! As usual!
Here’s the new rule:
Phil can say and do whatever they want and the Mets and the fans have to sit and take it all
Yes, they can NOW. they won something NOW. so next season the mets do have to take it. and if by “homer” you mean “mets fan” that is right. i know this may surprise you, but unlike you most of the people who come to this blog are mets fans.
I don’t get this we hate the Mets thing. The late 80s Mets team were arrogant, confident and cocky. They started fights and they also won. I got why other teams hated them.
This team is incredibly mellow, in fact too mellow for my taste. Other than Reyes, who the hell celebrates on this team? Not Wright, not Beltran, not Delgado. In fact, the lack of swagger is a bit of a problem in my book.
The quote from Gillick about Freddi Garcia hating the Mets from his days with the Braves was ridiculous. Are you kidding me? The Braves had the Mets number for the better part of a decade. What did we do to make them hate us? Get our hearts crushed by them year after year? Make them work a little to win the division and NLCS rather rolling over and playing dead for them? It should be and is the other way around, Freddi.
I am a NYC native but have lived other places in the country and I think a lot of this “hating the Mets stuff” is actually a combo jealousy/hating NYC.
Now if Jerry Manual can use it to his advantage, great. However, I think the whole thing is ridiculous and needs to go away, especially now that the Phillies won it all. You are the defending World Champions – shut up and just play the game.
rhu
Hey we can post here lol Is this a loophole haha
haha I was wondering if we could post here! figure matt turns off the posts on my most boring day of work in weeks……
maybe people will start trickling in lol Im falling asleep at my desk.
Write your comment here…
HAHA,, THERE IS A GLITCH IN THE SYSTEM..
lol thank god there is somewhere i can go to talk about mets. wfan turned into a anti mets yankee cheering section. i mean im afraid the met fan has replaced the redsox fan as the chronic complaining crybaby fan. i mean obstructed view means there is a pole or overhang in your view. not being able to see the left field wall from left field isnt obstructed. its virtually impossible to see the wall if u sit behind it lol i mean can we get a lil optimistic? i know its hard when ollie is on the mound tonight but the ballpark was beautiful
haha I heard that caller and Francesa kept saying well…did you tell them you sat in the seats and didnt like them? Stupid caller and Francesa with all his cockiness seemed to know it was ineveitable Sheffield would be playing for Church. He said hes surprised it didnt happen earlier. What do you know Mike!! I dont think even Manuel knew how he was going to handle this.