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Albert S sent in the following e-mail, which read:
“Hey Matthew how come nobody’s is talking about making pedro next year closer.”
The Mets, media and fans can talk about it all we want. The fact is, Martinez is a free agent, and unless he is open to the job it is not going to happen. From what I can gather, he has no interest in being a closer, since he is very specific in terms of how he prepares, and what his arm is capable of doing.
As for having the necessary mentality, I’m not so sure about that.
Look, with all due respect to what he has accomplished in his career, Martinez is not the same pitcher he was 10 years ago. Today, and to his credit, he is a more intellectual pitcher these days, using brains instead of power, while making adjustments and outsmarting the hitter pitch by pitch.
If you recall from this season, he would need at least an inning or two to calibrate to the opposition – which is something a closer cannot afford to do.
By the way, while we’re on the subject, most people characterize the mentality of a closer as being one of aggression, ‘heart,’ and having no fear.
The reality is that, instead, it’s about being resilient, poised and having focus, as Ron Darling once explained to me. It’s about being able to blow a save, deal with it, shake it off and get back on the mound less than 24 hours later, which is something a starting pitcher never has to do.
There are plenty of aggressive, no-fear pitchers who fail miserably at being closers. However, every successful closer is confident and resilient.
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no
Here is an answer to the question:
Picture a ‘69 Chrysler warming up in the middle of February in NY. Then you will know how quickly Pedro can warm up out there in the bull pen.
20 minutes!
Albert S asks:
“Hey how come nobody’s is talking about making pedro next year closer.”
Everyone else asks:
“Hey Albert S., how come you didn’t watch a single Mets game this season yet are still asking questions?”
“every successful closer is confident and resilient.”
Look at the Mets roster — who does that describe?
Heilman – NO
Schoenweis – YES, but he doesn’t have the stuff.
Smith – YES; does he have the stuff to face lefties?
Sanchez – HASN’T SHOWN IT YET.
Stokes – YES, but does he have the stuff?
Maine – YES, but can we rebuild a rotation without him?
Of all the current veteran relievers, I hope the Mets hold onto Sanchez (as a reliever). I think he could have a bounce back year next year.
I like the idea of Maine as a closer. Before anyone jumps on me, hear me out.
Maine as a starter is a 6 inning pitcher. We all want him to be more than that, but I’m seriously doubting he can be. He has a great fastball that hitters can time after seeing him once, hence all the foul balls and high pitch counts. He has a great record first time through a lineup. If he does have a high pitch count one game, he may likely get another 2 or 3 days off before we need him again. He seems to be competitive on the mound. He is coming off surgery and a season where he was in the top 10 in Pitcher Abuse Points… meaning, he is likely to break down over time.
Now, obviously this has an impact on the rotation. But if Maine is only a 6 inning pitcher, couldn’t we effectively replace Maine with a Garland-type and come out ahead in the transaction? We can even go after the CC types out there too for a front end of the rotation guy, for those that want that.
This proposal requires signing a type A, a type B and recouping our lost pick by offering Ollie arbitration. The total cost would be less than signing CC and KRod. Most good closers start out as starting pitchers.
(Note: I realize there are still other holes in the bullpen which need to be addressed)
Fire away.
Your reasoning is rational here. Maine is a decent candidate for the pen as its closer. But that leaves a rotation of just Santana and Pelfrey under contract with Neise as an outside chance of making it. We would really need 3 new starting pitchers which is a lot to ask given the price of solid starters beginning at around $11K per year.
3 new starters would probably be an additonal $40M to us….even if one of the 3 new starters was our old starter in Perez.
I still believe we need two new back end pen guys and 1 new starter plus resign our own Perez.
If we do that at nothing else…I believe we can make the playoffs
My offseason plan as GM, for whatever it would be worth (zero obviously), would be….
Trade Heilman Murphy and Parnell for Huston Street
Sign Krod
Resign Ollie Perez
Sign one of the Garland/Lowe/Freddy Garcia crew and go to war.
Forgot to mention resign our own Stokes and Ayala for the 6th and 7th inning duty in the pen and bring Kunz along Joe Smith and Shoe as Roogy and Loogy respectively
I never have seen Maine out of the bullpen so I mean while I think Maine can do a good job it is not a certain.
Personally I think Maine would do fine, but I really don’t want to take him out of the rotation.
I really want to see the Mets sign Ollie back up and have a nice balance and young rotation 1-4.
We don’t know how long Maine was hurting for last year. That could have been part of the reason he had trouble last year. He is still young I think he will continue to improve as a starter.
I mean he did win 15 games for us in 2007.
While I think he would be good in the bullpen me I just think he is more valuable as a starter for the Mets right now.
For a complete plan, I’d love to see Beimel or Affeldt here as a new “back end” guy. I also think Niese will be fine as a 5… he’ll struggle, but get better and better as the season goes on. We’re looking at: Santana, FA (CC), Pelfrey, FA (Garland), Niese as the starters, Maine, Affeldt/Beimel, Stokes, Smith, Scho and then two of Duaner, Feliciano, Parnell, Ayala as the bullpen.
I am not a fan of Street (he lost his closer’s job… in Oakland of all places) and don’t think he’s worth Murphy… Evans and Heilman, maybe.
If they move Maine to the pen then why not give Heilman a shot at starting?
I wouldn’t be adverse to that. He just cannot, under any circumstances, come back in a bullpen role with this team. I think there would be a mutiny.
“However, every successful closer is confident and resilient.”
… and possesses the ability to get hitters out consistently. I think pitching ability and stuff is 90% of it, while the confidence and resiliency is like 10%.
Did you watch Pedro pitch this season? He got rocked in the first inning virtually every time out. A closer doesn’t get three innings to settle in.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say this is probably why nobody is talking about it.
Forget Pedro. Time to move on.
Exactly – what was this Albert S guy thinking? Pedro’s best innings came *after* the first inning (and before whatever inning he loaded the bases).
Enough of these half-buttocked solutions – the Mets need a bona fide closer if they hope to compete next year.
“half-buttocked”
LMBO!!!!!
Pedro as a closer? Are you kidding? He would stub his toe, wrench his hip, or pull a calf within 1 week of the season beginning. He doesn’t have the stamina to pitch 3-5 times per week.
Pedro is not the same pitcher as 10 years ago? Heck, Pedro is not the same pitcher as 3 years ago.
whats up ya’ll 1st time commenting jus seeing if it works
Welcome….just don’t use the key banned words.
Don’t worry, we don’t know what they are either….but if they’re embedded in any longer word…such as as.sume
your entire post will get held up in Metsblog Limbo.
lol for the love of god can we have a list of the “banned words” updated till today….
blowjob = not a banned word. I think we should start substituting it for random words, like:
Man, Wright really blowjobbed with Murphy on 3rd there…
Did anyone actually watch Pedro this year? Did you notice that all his problems were in the 1st inning? So why would you want to bring him in for 1 inning?
because it’s wacky!
everyone wants bullpen and everyone wants to get young so i have a pretty good idea you guys just tell me what you think…..
1st lets start off with the Texeria most of you go back and forth on how we should or should not get him on my opinion its time 2 move foward even tho i love carlos delgado hes an old school player but after this year there is no solution for 1st base so i feel this is a “BIG” move minaya and my points are because 1 hes a switch hitter and that gives us good balance as how u all saw we had no righty hitters 2nd hes young and gold glove defense and 3rd its time to give david a guy 2 bond well with in this clubhouse. Now for left field i feel we should call back to our friends that gave us santana and talk to them about Delmon young he the twins are taking offers for him and hes young, not to much power “YET” becuase he reminds of a Jermaine Dye like type players and plays pretty good defense and a Good doubles hitter he will grow and be a good all around hitter and it will cost us nothing trade a guy like neise and maybe another minor if they ask for that much would be a steal becasue this guy can play and i would approve of this and it would be not wasted payroll on a left fielder leaving us to have balance in the lineup and letting us play murphy at second, and that would mean we would onli waste 6 million or lil more on payroll by upgrading on our 1st basemen and leaving delgado and castillo up for trades to help the bullpen and alot of money left over for closer help and rotation help if we look towards free agency for those spots , so what do you guys think about this write some comments peace LETS GO METS 2009
IF we could use Delgado to get BJ Ryan then I would sign Texeira. Pelfrey would have to go in order to get Delmon Young, I dont make that deal.
no way.
Why do you dignify these kinds of emails with responses? Horacio Ramirez and now Pedro? Are you just trying to sound smart?
How is Pedro and intellectual pitcher is the signs are coming from the catcher? Or the dugout, for that matter.
Jesus man don’t you watch? Pedro pretty much calls his own game.
It is going to be a long, long off season, especially here on metsblog.
Personally it is hard for me to say it but there is no place for Pedro on this team next year. I have been a huge Pedro fan since he became a starter on the Expos and of course into his Boston days. Growing up he was my favorite pitcher.
I loved it when the Mets signed him and even though he really only had that one good year for us in 2005 I think he was worth it for his 4 years here because the attitude and leadership that he brought. He helped point this organization in the right direction.
Even though the Mets have failed the last 2 years this team is in a much better place then it was before Pedro got here.
I was so happy the last game he pitched at Shea to see him get that standing ovation it was great and the way he responded to the crowd it was great but at the same time sad because you knew that was it. Pedro was a fan favorite and just so great with the fans …. he will be missed but his time here is up.
It’s about being able to blow a save.
And that is why Wagner is a closer. Haaaa
Pedro kept getting hit in the first all season then settled down… how would it make sense to have him close? It would be like having anyone else in the bullpen close.
In response to a poster above who mentioned a 2009 bounce back by Duaner Sanchez, I must respectfully disagree with you. Sanchez spent a year recovering from an injury which no pitcher has ever had (I’m referring to the specific bone which he hurt in the taxi accident). He was clearly not the same pitcher, as he had shown significantly decreased velocity. In addition, 2006 was by far his best season, though ‘04 and ‘05 weren’t bad (3.38era/3.73 respectively).
Sorry for the multiple parts, but i’m having issues getting this posted…
On the otherhand, Heilman also has had a very good track record as a reliever, being untouchable out of the pen in ‘05, and being excellent in ‘06 and ‘07 (3.62era/3.04 respectively). I could throw in several more stats to prove his dominance as well, but I won’t, in the interest of being concise. Aaron obviously had an awful 2008…A deeper look into his statline showed that the two biggest issues he suffered from was a lack of control (BB’s in 2008 were virtually equal to his BB total from ‘06 and ‘07 combined). In addition, lefites OPSed .983 against him, compared to .658 and .753 in ‘06-’08, while continuing to enjoy success against righties.
Now, there are really two ways to look at this..
A) The league has figured him out
B) His knee injury was a bigger factor than anyone thought.
Hey guys – im sorry about the MULTIPLE posts here, but I’m really having trouble getting this one through, so I broke it up….I finished it up in the post below…
Looking at metrics like swing and miss % would help me a lot, but I’m not sure where to find this data. It would help me to come up with a more conclusive answer, but I’d think that if the league indeed figured him out, the righties would hit him much better as well. As a result, I believe the fundamental problem with Aaron Heilman was his changeup, the primary weapon vs. the lefties. out. All season long, he wasn’t very consistent with it, and when thats the case, hitters can sit on the fastball. While the 4-seamer is tough on rightes as it breaks inside, against lefties it breaks over the plate, causing Heilman to aim it at the batter, in order to throw it inside. When he isn’t getting the call on the change, Aaron cannot afford to be picky, leading to higher walk rates.
Since in order to command the fastball (which has an identical delivery to the changeup), one needs to drive off the mound toward the batter, it is easy to see where a knee injury can cause problems. While the fastball is relatively unaffected due the great movement it shows, the change is not as fortunate. And since it is a key weapon against lefties, a less then effective changeup, in my opinion, is a key reason for his struggle in 2008.
Unfortunately, many people point only to his failure, as opposed to his entire body of work, which while understandable, is extremely short sighted.
Now, of course this is all conjecture, but I strongly believe that a healthy Aaron will be a boon to the pen next year. I do believe he must earn the 8th inning job next year, but to part with him is just ridiculous.
PS – feed back would be great, as I put a LOT into that post!
if Aaron Heilman is a boon to the Mets pen next year, I will eat a Philly
At this point in his career, Pedro is best served as the guy who throws batting practice. Pedro will probably end up with the Nationals because A) They’re the only team where acquiring Pedro would upgrade their rotation and B) They always pick up the Mets’ trash.
Pedro is DONE. move on with some new blood.
I still say that Brad Lidge doesn’t have the mentality to be a closer. Once he blows that first save in Philly, oh boy…
Brad Lidge is a good closer. He’s proven to all of us he’s turned a corner. There’s no question the Phillies provided him both plenty of opportunities with multiple run leads, but he simply did his job. Even when he made things interesting. The problem for him is he’s getting old and has had arm problems. He’ll only decline from this point on. By the last year of his contract, he may look like Billy to us.
Exactly. I don’t know if there’s a nice way to say it, but Pedro just isn’t a Met anymore. He had his moments here in ‘05. And half of ‘06. But since than he’s either been on the shelf or has been horrible. He’s been a useless overpaid dud for the past 2 1/2 seasons. Piazza was awesome up until ‘03 when he got hurt and declined. We dealt with his injuries, awkward transition to 1B and mediocre hitting because we had his contract. But when he became a FA, it was time to cut ties. The same thing has to be done with Pedro.
I don’t want to be rude, but that idea has no logic. Pedro Martinez’s worst inning was the 1st. The only current SP the Mets would ever consider the idea about is Maine because he’s got more of the make up of it, he’s had arm problems and he’s simply not as good as Johan or Pelfrey.
Pedro Martinez has about as little of a right to be on the Mets next season as Moises Alou. He’s old and has lost his game. I promise I hope the best for him. Unless he’s like a coach though, why bring him back? He wants to keep pitching. We know he’d never settle for a minor league deal. Wish him well and that’s that. While we’re at it, find a taker for Schoenweis. Someone is out there. And Heilman too.
The off-season could be simpler than most people make it. If there’s any intelligence, here’s how I’d do it. You could use the same logic as having to take a dump on a dirty bowl lol Would any you really sit on a dirty toilet? At least one that’s not yours? I hope not. What would you do? Clean it. You’d take off what’s not ”desired.”
Here is who that is in the Mets bullpen: Luis Ayala (5.50 ERA in NYM) ; Aaron Heilman, Scott Schoenweis and we’re lucky enough to have Billy Wagner already done. Wipe away Pedro. Wipe away Castillo. Wipe away Alou. Schoenweis is left-handed and at market value so someone is out there to take him. Probably Detroit. I don’t know what you could get back for Heilman, but if he’s packaged than we’ll see. The only player who’ll be a burden is Castillo. We’ll have to take a Jose Guillen, Juan Pierre or Aaron Rowand (good player but bad contract) back in a trade. I know people don’t like Guillen, but he’d command higher trade value at the deadline than Castillo ever could if we didn’t want him anymore. I’m not necessarily recommending that move though. 30 million can get us a closer, a 3 pitcher and a couple good set up men. Everything beyond that is adding onto what’s already there.