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According to the Chicago Sun-Times, citing ‘several sources,’ the White Sox intend to trade RHP Javier Vazquez this off-season in exchange for a second or third baseman.
…thanks to Steve in NC for the link…
Vazquez was 12–16 with a 4.67 ERA with 200 strike outs in 208 innings pitched. He had a 3.74 ERA in 2007.
He will earn $11.5 million in each of 2009 and 2010, after which he is eligible to be a free agent.
…if you recall, Omar Minaya has been linked to the White Sox in rumors involving vazquez, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, Jose Contreras, and others…if the sox intend to move vazquez, i would not be surprised to see these rumors continue…
Last off-season, several reports, including Ken Rosenthal’s at FOXSports.com, wrote that the Mets had expressed interest in Vazquez, while aggressively searching for a starting pitcher.
Excellent. Now we can trade Luis Castillo for Vasquez. Perfect. Let’s get er done.
My thoughts exactly. Castillo and B type prospect for him. Figure a move to NL could drop the ERA to the low 4s and you have your number 5 leaving one rotation spot to fill.
lol thats the first thing that came to my mind. I doubt the White Sox’s want Castillo as it seems to me NO teams do. But I would do that trade in a second.
In a realistic proposal it would Castillo & 1 or 2 prospects for Vasquez, depending on the prospects, but I think Castillo & 2 single-a types get it done for Vasquez….I mean Ozzie hates him so its not like they DONT have totrade him…
I was, as you probably surmised, half-joking. If you really think we could package Castillo and get Vasquez, I’d be for that.
I really don’t want to give up a Bobby Parnell or John Niese. But it may take one of them to get it done. Or maybe Aaron Heilman, even though I think he’s going to bounce back and have a good season.
if i recall, white sox have asked before showy and heilman. and i think they’re looking for a reliever. a showy + castillo for vazquez makes a great deal of sense for both sides.
No way Show and Castillo gets it done. Vazquez is the best arm on the market after CC and Lowe (and I might rank him higher than Lowe based on his ability to get strikeouts and his consistent 200+ innings a season).
The problem with analyzing past deals is that situations change. yes, they wanted Heilman – back when he was the premier set up reliever in the national league and presumed by some scouts to have upside as a front of the rotation starter.
That’s like saying: the Red Sox would have given us Manny for Milledge three years ago, so they’ll give us Bay for Evans now. Different time, different market value…
I don’t know if I’d rank Vazquez higher than Lowe. Vaquez tanked in New York with the Yankees, while Lowe thrived in Boston. I think Lowe is stronger willed.
His year in NY has been his weirdest one.
Is the only one he didn’t reach 200+ innings in the season (”only” 198) but at the same time has been his only all star appearance.
He was 10-5 with 3.56 ERA the first half, then he collapsed the 2nd half 4-5 with 6.92 ERA.
He has 52-46 with an ERA of 4.52 in 825 2/3 IP in the AL in 4 seasons, while he has 70-68 with an ERA of 3.94 in 1,272 2/3 IP in 6 seasons after his rookie one in the NL.
incluiding 3.42, 3.91, 3.24 his last 3 seasons in Montreal.
If the Mets can get his arm and sign Lowe, we have a respectable rotarion (Santana, Pelfrey, Vazquez, Maine, Lowe) then we can concentrate in the bullpen and the closer.
This may not be a bad thing. I mean, the guy does strikeout pretty close to 200 a year, which would be solid for a middle of the rotation guy.
I’d rather have Vasquez than Ollie. I think Vasquez is more consistent. And in the NL, his stats would be better.
This has Murphy for Vasquez all over it. I’m scared!
Okay maybe not but I’m still scared.
I don’t see that being enough. Vazquez offers tremendous value, especially to a contender. His stats are consistently in the John Maine range and he’s coming off 9 straight seasons of 198 IP or better. Castillo has no value at all.
I could see Murphy and 1-2 prospects getting it done, or possibly Murphy and Castillo if we ate Castillo’s full salary.
Not saying I would make that trade, necessarily, just that I think that’s what it would take.
Sorry, this one was in response to the Castillo thread earlier – not sure why it wound up down here
YGB, I think Castillo has some value to a club like the White Sox- Ozzie loves playing “small ball” and Castillo IS Captain Small Ball. Of all the teams in the league, the CWS might be the one where Castillo is a fit!
Castillo has no value anywhere get real. That is why when he was a free agent befroe Omar gave him a four year deal there were no other teams looking to sign him even to a two year deal.
Weren’t the Astros giving 3?
No the Astros signed Kaz befroe the mets even signed Castillo
That’s not true at all HittheSinkerball, it was common knowledge that the Astros offered 3 years for Castillo, then when the Mets got Castillo with the 4th year that they turned and offered pretty much the same contract for Kaz Matsui.
Castillo signed on the 19th of Nov, Matsui signed on 2nd of Dec
dont forget, vazquez is a bonafide innings eater as well. so this could be similar to the rays getting joe blanton. while the starter himself may not seem a big deal, his effect on resting the pen makes a huge difference.
if they combine vazquez with another free agent signing (lowe, perez, wolf, etc), leaving niese in aaa to develop further and be ready in case of injury, they’d be very well set.
they are not taking castillo back.
how about Castillo, mets pick up half of the contract, and two minor league players for Vasquez.
If one of the players is Niese, they might say yes.
how about jason vargas or adam bostick and an outfielder from double a not named martinez.
No way. Have you looked at Javy’s career numbers? 9 straight seasons of 198 IP or better, consistently over 200 strikeouts. Listen, I love Javy Vazquez and I hope we get him – he immediately becomes our #2 starter. He gives us the best rotation not only in the NL but in all of baseball.
But think about this – going into 2008, Vazquez ranked #8 among AL starters in VORP… and that was back when Santana and Haren were still in the AL. You don’t get that for fringe prospects and one of the worst 2B in baseball.
“He gives us the best rotation not only in the NL but in all of baseball.”
What are you smoking??? Santana- bona fide ace, Vazquez-inconsistent, Pelfrey-who knows??, Maine-inconsistent, 5th starter-???? The Mets rotation behind Santana is a big question mark and nowhere near the best in MLB. Pelf has made big strides in 1 year but he could go either way this year. Maine is a 5 inning pitcher and then 2 voids to be filled in the rotation.
I would take the Cubs,D-backs, Dodgers, Angels,Rays,Red Sox, Jays rotations way over the Mets.
Obviously the comments of Castillo, Heilman, and Scho will fly in this thread. I know other people have mentioned it, but I bet you that both Heilman and Sanchez, or at least one of them, will have a bounce back year next year.
We need to keep at least one of them IMO. Im not sold on dumping Heilman after his supposed injury plauged 2008. People bring up the confidence factor but no one ACTUALLY knows that.
people quickly about faced on delgado after he improved. dont be so quick to unload heilman and sanchez and the next shiney thing.
that said, vazquez would be an excelllent addition for all the above stated reasons
How can you compare the two? Delgado was a very good player over his whole career. He has been a big time player.
Heilman had a nice 06 and 07 but in both years did not get it done when it really mattered. 06 post season and 07 stretch run.
Heilman, Show, and Castillo are killed by the fans no matter what they do.
It is time for them to move on. The Mets know that as well as to why they were shopping Heilman last offseason so that will be the case even more so this offseason.
The Mets big wigs took great notice to the fans and how they treated certain players trust me.
i merely used ‘08 delgado as an example, in no way was i comparing heilman/sanchez to him career vs. career…..
Castillo and Carp maybe? Just throwing it out there.
Even though Castillo’s :$19mm is less than Vasquez’s $23mm, Vasquez is cheaper — because the average SP gets far more than the average 2B, so the incremental cost is higher.
Plus, as we’ve observed here occasionally, Castillo is further “below average” at 2B than Vasquez is for a SP.
That would mean that the Mets will have to eat $ in this trade, plus give better talent.
I still like the concept, but it’ll be costly…
I like the concept too — Javy on the Mets, against NL lineups, would produce something like 15 wins, a mid 3 ERA and 225K’s. Who wouldn’t want that? That’s why people have to get a grip on his market value.
Going into 2008, Javy ranked 8th in the American League for VORP among pitchers. He was rated as essentially equal to Dan Haren. You’re talking about an elite arm.
Would the Phillies trade Myers for Castillo (if they needed a 2B?)
Would the Cubs trade Lilly for Castillo?
Would the Dodgers trade Lowe (if he were still under contract) for Castillo?
Because Vazquez is as good as Lowe and better than the other two.
You don’t know that if Castillo went in a trade to the Sox’s that the Mets would have to eat some of his contract.
From the sound if it the Sox’s want to get rid of Vasquez just as bad.
And even if the Mets have to eat some of his contract who cares I think the Mets can afford it.
The bottom line is no matter where they dumo Castillo (even though no team wants him) they would have to eat some of his contract. It is the only way they are going to get rid of him.
I rather the Mets eat some of his contract then have that guy on the team next year
Castillo is bad, but he’s not so bad that no team wants him. It might be that he can’t play in NY. idk
No team does want him. That is the big reason the Mets get killed for that contract they gave him. They gave him a four year deal when no other team was even interested in him.
Go ask every team and I bet 95% of them give the same answer as the Diamondbacks did. “We just don’t like Castillo at all”.
At the time the Mets gave him 4 yrs, a lot of teams were interested, but no one went over 3 yrs. That’s why the Mets were initially questioned for it. But when he stunk, they got killed.
According to Tim Dierkes, the Indians, Padres and Dodgers all inquired about Castillo as a free agent, with Houston offering three yrs.
Let the rumors begin!!!!
did everyone forget how un-clutch Vasquez was this year? So bad that his manager called him to task for it? And didn’t he crumble in NY as a Yankee? 9+ ERA in 2004 Post Season.
ESPN: “With 127 wins and 127 losses, Javier Vazquez’s merit as a Hall of Fame pitcher won’t be hotly debated when the 11-year veteran retires.
But Ozzie Guillen isn’t going that far.
Guillen just points to the right-hander’s past performances during big games — or lack thereof — even as the White Sox’s manager is set to give Vazquez the ball on Tuesday for the start of a crucial three-game series against the AL Central-contending Twins.”
To be honest i dont worry about his post seasons meltdown, ven finishing this trade the METS probably would sign a FA with experience like Lowe, so after Santana, Pelfrey and Lowe, probably Maine would get a 4th start in the playoffs not him, so in the post season he would be mostly a long reliever.
We do need him without a doubt for the season, a pitcher who would make all of his start, the majority of the time would pitch 7 innings at least so guys like him keep the bullpen fresh. and that’s what we need.
vasquez is a solid starter. that has a lot of value in this market. they’re going to want someone good. who can play now.
Trax was also a solid starter…he also had the heart of a lamb. Just saying after three seasons of failure we may want to stock up with pitchers that are not prone to cracking under pressure.
i didn’t save i’d want him…just saying these trade proposals are a joke.
castillo? please. you think YOU can get soup?
FACE IT WE ARE GOING TO BE STUCK WITH LUIS CASTILLO ON OUT TEAM NEXT YEAR NO ONE WANTS HIM. THIS HELL WILL NEVER END!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would the Sox trade for Castillo when they have Alexi Ramirez? Why move Ramirez to the outfield and make your infield defense weaker with Castillo? Makes no sense.
Ramirez is going to be there SS next year. They have said that already
the mets should consider taking a look at Joe Crede, a right handed power bat with some range. i know he is injury prone, but he is a player that can greatly help the mets.
This one is scary to me. As someone mentioned earlier the Sox are most likely NOT thinking Castillo. It would make sense for them to net Murphy and Evans. MAYBE we could get Murphy and Castillo for Vargas but do we REALLY want to trade Murphy for Vasquez?
murphy and castillo is too much for vasquez in my opinion.
what about heilman straight up for him?
LOL, are you serious? We would be lucky if they took Murphy and Castillo. I don’t want to trade Murphy but do you really think that Chicago is going to trade a consistant 200 innings guy with a reasonable contract for Aaron Heilman?
How is that anywhere near too much?
Here’s a name that has not been mentioned on here much. Milton Bradley will be a type B FA. That would be a great upgrade in LF and would not cost us a pick. He definately brings attitude.
i would take Bradley in a heartbeat but as long as you can keep him calm. Tatis would fill in for Bradley when he gets suspended for throwing temper tantrums. lol
Bradley is a great call. He would add some much needed intensity to this club. You go right down through our lineup and its one softy after another. Now all we need is the Parker Brothers and we are ready to play!
F-, on the joke.. Sorry guys/gals…
at least you know, and knowing’s half the battle.
Also, MB would be an interesting possibility
I don’t feel like trading for the craziest guy since Carl Everett (who we had at one point…)
Remember those 86ers? They we a team full of troublemakers! The Kevin Mitchell curse!
I’m not sure I believe the rumor to be honest … why would the White Sox want a 3B? They have Crede, who they will most likely try to trade, but they also have Josh Fields, who isn’t great, but hit 22 Homers in a half season in 2007…
Just read that Crede is a FA … that seems early to me, but oh well. They still have Fields …
I’m a helluva lot more intrigued by Vasquez than I am by Garret Anderson…
I’d take Vazquez but he’d cost a Nick Evans and I wouldn’t deal Evans for Vazquez who already showed once he’s not a NY kinda guy.
I would be happy to get Vasquez as a mid rotation guy. As-suming Chicago is looking to clear some salary, why not?
And if Castillo can go back in the deal, even better!
Just no murphy. He stays. Someone has to play 2B when luis is gone!
Say they pay 9 million of Castillos salary. That is like the Mets getting Vasquez for 16 million per for 2, and the white sox getting Luis for 3 million per for 3. Expensive pitcher, but ST deal. Cheap 2B. The Mets can afford it.
Plus, if they can fill a rotation spot with a solid vet and dump Castillo at the same time, without giving up serious prospects, it would be a huge plus.
and just call him the 5th starter and there won’t be much pressure. After all, look what he is replacing!
Santana
Pelfrey
Maine
Vazquez
#5 guy (could be Neise, doesn’t have to be)
Not too bad, especially if Maine bounces back now that he has been fixed up.
The Mets could have had javier vazquez for duaner sanchez at the 2006 deadline.
OOPS!
Yet another Omar blunder.
His crystal ball was broken that week I’d as-sume.
I think you guys are really undervaluing Vazquez. You have to take into account not only is Cellurlar field a hitters park they have an outfield of Jermaine Dye, Grif-fey Jr and Carlos Quentin, not exactly a defensive juggernaut. I’d imagine his numbers would see a pretty big improvement moving into the al, into what should be a pitchers park and a better outfield defense.
Just ignoring his ERA he had a k/9 of 8.64, a whip of 1.3 a k/bb of 3.3. He would probably be our second best pitcher by a pretty wide margin if you put him in our park with Beltran behind him.
I’m not sure which part of my last comment got eaten. I’ll put down the succint version:
1) Vazquez had a relative down year and still had an excellent 3.96 xFIP.
2) He’d be a No. 2 on the Mets. The typical No. 2 has a 4.17 xFIP at best.
3) He would make the Mets better.
True. I actually believe Mike Pelfrey would continue to emerge into a 2 pitcher so Vazquez would make a great 3. And Maine a 4. We’ll see with this one. I think Ken Williams may ask for too much.
I’d consider trading for him if the price wasn’t ridiculous. I think the White Sox just don’t want him anymore even if he is a good pitcher. There confidence is shot with him. Give him a fresh start and he’ll be better somewhere else.
The White Sox won’t take Castillo. Vazquez is more than at market value. The only guy you may see go in the deal who’s paid something is Schoenweis. Maybe the Mets would throw Heilman in there. The question would be how much more would it take. Maybe Parnell? Who knows.
I know that we wont get any of the 3 guys we actually NEED
Here is some reality…
1. we are more than likely stuck with Castillo for 1 more year
2. in order to get use out of church + murphy…delgado must go [too many lefties to be effective]
3. parnell, niese, kunz, Fmart + evans are NOT MLB ready and shouldnt even sniff the majors until after mid-season
4. Vazquez, Cordero, & J. Rivera will be Mets this season
5. We WILL NOT ADD A BIG NAME CLOSER….start thinking corpas, gregg, sherrill, wilson, betancourt, etc…
6. Be prepared for Niese, Smith, Schneider, Delgado, Church, and Show may no longer be Mets, in order to make some moves.
7. Any BIG BATS we need, wont show up…no Tex, Manny, or even Bradley
** this doesnt signify a bad job by Omar, as everyone blames. Omar has done a good job not allowing the market to control him, with the exception of Castillo[Alomar 2.0]!
How about this SIMPLE plan of action…
1-trade to get Vazquez
2-trade to get Salty + Wilson/Benoit
3-Sign: Blake, Bradley, Lyon, Cordero, Affledt, Ollie/Lowe
Trade: castillo, delgado, schneider, heilman, + show
if needed-niese, smith, carp, + evans
‘ 09 Mets
1-reyes, ss
2-murphy, 2b
3-beltran, cf
4-wright, 3b
5-bradley, lf
6-church, rf
7-blake, 1b
8-salty, c
SP: Santana, Pelf, Ollie/Lowe, Maine, Vazquez
RP- smith, sanchez, feliciano, Cordero,Affeldt
8th-Lyon Cl-Wilson/Benoit
Bench-Easley[IF], Tatis[C-IF/OF], Castro[C], Pagan[OF] + 1FA[Rivera? Loretta?]
we get more Gritty/”Gamers” + RH, adding RP that can pitch to both sides of the plate + can throw heat
Best Bench in the Majors, and an elite rotation
No big money signings, no loss of draft picks for FA signings
This is the kind of team we need…built on speed, OBP, hustle, + depth
Still dreaming of landing Tex….thats the 1 player we need to land, but there is going to be a lot of competition…so im trying to be realistic