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According to the Daily News, the Rockies, Cardinals, Cubs and D’Backs have interest in Aaron Heilman – as do the Rays, according to Ken Davidoff, in a post to his blog for Newsday.
The Rockies and D’Backs, among other teams, still believe that Heilman can be starting pitcher, wrote Jon Heyman at SI.com yesterday.
In a report today for the New York Post, Joel Sherman agrees that the Rays have interest in Heilman, however, ‘not to the extent it had in the past…thus, the Mets would have to surrender more to complete a deal.’
According to Sherman, while the Rays do not think the Mets have the talent to acquire a player like Scott Kazmir, Matt Garza, Jamie Shields or David Price, the two teams have been in talks regarding Andy Sonnanstine and Edwin Jackson.
In 32 starts for the Rays this season, the 25–year-old Jackson was 14–11 with a 4.42 ERA in 183 innings pitched, during which opponents hit .281 while striking out 108 times.
Meanwhile, also in 32 starts, Sonnestan, 25, was 13–9 with a 4.38 ERA, in 193 innings, during which opponents hit .277.
By the way, Sherman also writes about the future of Bobby Valentine, A.J. Burnett, Willie Randolph and others.
I llike Sonnastine, but I’m pretty certain Jackson would be the second coming of Perez, except with fewer K’s, more hits and walks, and without the ridiculous lefty/righty split Perez has, which helped him a lot in our division.
Certainly not more walks! Ollie gave up 28 more walks last year than Jackson in 2 more starts.
Jackson pitched 10 fewer innings. But you’re right over the same inning span he still gives up like 19 less walks, but he also gives up a lot more hits, his WHIP was still .11 points higher than Perez’s despite walking a lot fewer batters.
Still, I’d rather have Edwin Jackson (94 mph) than Sonnastine (88 mph). Sonnastine seems like another Trachsel or Bannister retread…
You’d rather have the worse pitcher of the two because of velocity?
It’s like wanting Ryan Howard over Albert Pujols.
i agree with HOFmets57, Jackson has more upside and much better stuff. If he can get a little better control, he would dominate. Didnt anybody see Jackson pitch against the Sox in the playoffs in relief?? I like Sonnanstine but he probably has already hit his ceiling. He walks less people than Jackson but his control has to be pinpoint or he gets beat around. Did anybody see him pitch in the playoffs?? He looked so-so to me and flirted with danger all of the time.
Correct.
To answer your question, Gina. Yes, simply because of velocity. They are the same age but Edwin has an out where Sonnanstine does not: velocity/strike out. If he can continue and develop his secondary pitches, he projects to be a 2-3 starter. Sonnanstine will never be higher than a 4…
How is he the second coming of Perez when you just pointed out all the differences?
They are more like the second coming of Zambrano…. Victor.. but younger!
to be honest…id rather spend the extra 8 million a year and extra 3 years on CC than on Ollie…I loved Ollie and I think he is a gamer…BUT, a HEALTHY rotation of CC..Johan…Pelfrey…Maine…and a 5th starter would be pretty great…
If we max out on the bullpen, I think we have enough to cover our deficiencies in other areas …( LF/2B)
Omar should be going after
Cruz/Biemel/Fuentes/K-Rod
if we have that plus smith feliciano parnell..maybe stokes or ayala…( sorry but i think they have to cut ties with aaron and maybe even dirty )
i think I would like our chances
haha.. we don’t have the talent to acquire a Scott Kazmir.. that’s right we cut Victor Zambrano…
Took the words out of my mouth pretty much. I was ready to give them Brian Stokes.
Let’s sign Zambrano and try a reverse trade ;)
Btw the second time you spelled Sonnanstine was horrible.
Sonnanstine is a gamer. I’m all for picking him up.
I think its safe to say the jury is sitll out on those two. They are both only 25 dont forget. Still a lot of upside there.
Heilman & a bag of BP balls for ……..ANYTHING !!!
I agree with bobabouy. If you can move heilman and a very low level prospect for him sure.
He’d fill in nicely for a 5th or 4th starter. I still say they sign Lowe, maybe go after Sabbathia (pipe Dream). I like the consistency that Lowe gives you even if it won’t be for the live of the contract he gets. You know he is a gamer and will keep it close. The Mets do need to fill 2 SP roles. I don’t want to be relying on Neise, even though he looked like he can hang in the bigs last season. Having him as a long man/ 6th starter is where he should be.
Also i the bullpen i would love to clean house, No Heilman, Feliciano and Show. I’ll keep Sanchez and Stokes, but they have to battle for spots… nothing is given and they can be demoted to AAA. I’d hold onto Smith as well, but if he can’t get lefties out I want him gone also. Lefty Right matchup’s should only be used in the Playoffs. No more 10 pitch to face one batter innings, using 3 pitchers in that inning. PLEASE!
folks when analyzing AL pitchers you have to recognize the fact that they face a DH rather than a pitcher….in 30 starts that’s about 120 ABs that will now be a NL pitcher….
or a pinch hitter…..
Heilman & castillo for Kazmir and Price. That’s fair, no?
f kazmir, i’ll take Garza, Kazmir is 5-6 inning pitcher with arm trouble, a diminished fastball, a hot head, and is vastly overrated. Garza is the real deal. But yeah, i’ll take Price too…
Overatted I think not.. Where else are you going to find a lefty with high strikeouts and low ERA?
he’s overrated, just watch, he’s seen his best years already.
He is 24 years old.
Garza > Price > Shields > Kazmir
I sense a hint of sarcasm.
More like…
Heilman, Castillo & Schoenweiss for Kazmir and Price.
:)
Sonnanstine and Jackson are scrubs. I’d take Garza. Maybe the Rays want Luis Castillo? ;)
This would be a great move. Both Jackson and Sonnanstine have showed good promise. If all it would cost is heilman+ a prospect, get it done. Then, we would need only 1 starter, plus this would free up money to improve other areas of the team.
If we deal Heilman, he will do well next year. Guaranteed.
Thats the problem with always selling low. We should have delt him a year or so ago when teams still valued him as a starter and we had no intentions of using him as such, we likely would have gotten a package at least equal to the value of the role he played on the team. Now we’re stuck between a rock in a hard place, we sell now while he still has a little value left and he might bounce back, or we could try and wait and hope he improves his value and he might end up destroying what little value he has left.
So what. If we keep him and he stinks another year for us, it won’t help his value at all. he was horrible last year, asked to be dealt someplace new, so lets give him his opportunity. he had 2 great years for us, was pitching in a role he didn’t want. Lets accomodate him and possibly get a 26 year old starter who won 13 games. Improved dramatically in his second year, and won 2 games in the postseason….
You can keep santana. We have the good one.
Not santana…. Jackson.. Sonnastein is the better one.
Sorry about that!
I did a big post regarding Heilman, with the conclusion that Heilman’s knee injury prevented him from throwing an effective changeup, allowing hitters to sit on his fastball. While this was very tough for righties, as Aaron’s FB bores in on the RH batters, it is easier for lefties, as Heilman must exhibit excellent control, otherwise the pitch creeps toward the middle of the plate, or outside the zone vs. lefties. This is why lefties hit him uncharacteristically hard, and what led to Heilman’s lost season (If you take a look at the splits, you’ll see that his performance vs. righties was in line with career norms, while lefties hammered him).
Should his knee be healthy next year (a big deal, as he needs to be able drive off it in order to locate his pitches), look for a return to form. Book it.
Eh Heilman and Evans for Sonnanstine works for me. The go sign Garland for the other spot. At that point we would be gaining picks for Perez. It would also still give us around 18-20 million to spend on other holes.
And one proven lefty in the rotation..
I’d much rather prefer 2…
overrated, just give me someone who can pitch.
not over rated when you see Utley and Howard 20 something times a year..
Is Ollie a scatter brain.. yes
Did he tie up the Phils… yes he did
Gotta give credit where credit is due.
Agreed. You get 5 guys that can throw 200 innings each I don’t care if they throw with their middle hand.
He also had terrible games against the rest of the league. You have to pitch against many more teams than just he Braves and Phillies.
He tends to show up for big games.. that’s all I’m saying…
Gonna be a very tough decision on what to do with him.
See to me with Boras as his agent and the fact that we can get picks for him, it’s an easy one.
Who on the market besides CC and Perez are quality LHP? Niese can take that spot eventually if he progresses.
I’m just saying we’ll miss throwing 2 quality lefties against the Phils like we were able too this year.. prettyy much every series they had to see Ollie or Johan…
Ollie’s ERA against the phillies last year… it’s 0.35
That’s right.. ZERO POINT THREE FIVE
That is going to be missed if we let Ollie go
what was ollie vs the rest of the league? how many games against the phils vs the rest of the league? you don’t build your rotation based on 1 team.
When you have to beat them to win the division? They get a little more weight…
We won the head to head match up against the Phillies this year, and exactly what good did it do us? I don’t care how he pitches against the Phillies when he stinks it up against everyone else.
What about his
10.38 vs Cubs
7.50 vs Dodgers
6.55 vs Brewers
10.80 vs Pirates
8.62 vs Nationals
162.00 (not a misprint) vs the Giants
We don’t play just the Phillies.
4.22 isn’t stinking it up against everyone else… that’s a lower ERA then Sonnanstine and Edwin Jackson who are being discussed this AM.. as well as John Garland whose ERA is a tick less then 5
Jackson, who I don’t think is better than Perez but w/e, and Sonnastine also play in the AL against a pretty hard hitting division. Not to mention Perez was helped by playing in Shea and luck, he gave up WAY more line drives and fly balls than Sonnastine did that ended up as outs because of our defense and being in a pitchers park, tropicana is a slight hitters park and more offensively friendly than Shea.
Not to mention you can look at the ERA’s against other teams that the thereal posted, that’s stinking it up.
The only one on that list with ANY weight is the Nats…
We play the phils 20 something times…which is why Ollie has 26 innings (4 starts) against them which he DOMINATED…
the rest of the players on that list 6? Which is why the numbers are skewed… cause he had 1 or 2?
Johnan has a 7.20 ERA against the Reds..does that mean hes no good?
Actually his ERA gainst everyone else is around 4.82.
His ERA for the season is 4.22.. your boy John Garland is 4.90…
No it does not. It says that Perez is an inconsistant pitcher that only pitches 5 2/3 innings did not pitch more than 7 2/3 innings all season has a 4.22 ERA and a climbing walk rate. It also says that he wants way too much money and years for those numbers.
You said against everyone else. Not total.
As for Garland, do you not understand that he is cheaper, requires less years and is a type B FA for similar numbers?
again with money.. is it yours?
Were you cool with the 8 mill Alou Got?
How about 6 we gave El Duque?
How about the 14 we gave Pedro to get shelled by the Phils?
Obviously Ollie is inconsistent.. but 4 wins agains the phils is a 4 game swing in the NL EAST.. that’s HUGE.
The rest of his numbers are no better then John Garland, or Edwin Jackson, or Any Sonnsanstine…
So what makes those guys better suited for the rotation?
Do you not understand he’s (Garland) not very good?
An ERA of almost 5
A Whip of 1.51
A Batting Average against of .303?
Why should we give any money or years for him?
You just don’t get it. Why do I care about the money? Because the Mets care. If they get Sonnanstine instead of Perez then that free’s up 15 million to be spent in other areas to fix more hole than just one.
Is Perez better than Sonnanstine right now? Yes. Is Perez alone better for the team than Sonnanstine AND a new LF or 2B? No.
Also, Garland again would require no picks, less money and less years. He would be fine for a #5 starter. If Perez gets 4/64 and Garland 3/36 don’t you think the Mets care?
The mets care? The mets had the 2nd highest payroll in baseball last year!
They’ll spend whatever they want
They can easily sign Perez and upgrade other areas
3/36 for a guy with Garland’s numbers? He’s HORRIBLE
If you want to save money… let Neise pitch every 5th day..I’m sure he could post a 5.00 ERA, a 1.51 WHIP. and let batters hit over .300 against him too..
There I just saved you 36 million dollars
4/64 for Perez and two picks? He’s horrible.
I am also sure that Niese could average 5 1/2 innings too. So I just saved us 16 million. Let him take Perez’s spot.
He’s better then Garland… and besides.. you told me the draft is just a crapshoot since when do you care about what picks we’d get back?
By the way.. I thought Vlad wasn’t getting picked up by the Angels? What happened to that prediction of yours?
Ummm. I got one wrong? At least you are paying attention in clas s.
Yes, I care about picks. It is still somewhat a crapshoot but you still need money to play craps.
And of course Perez is better than Garland. CC is better than both of them, why not sign him instead?
one wrong?
Wake me up when Andy LaRoache cracks .200
I don’t think Ollie is worth 4/64 either… but I wouldn’t mind him back if the price was right.. or maybe a tick or two higher then he probably deserves.
I’ll take the guy I know will win the big games for me.. and Ollie has done that.
Garland is terrible.. Sonnanstine might be a decent #3 or #4 and eat up innings.. but he doesn’t replace Ollie.
The mets are going to sign at least one Type A FA this year.. there’s just too many out there that fit what we need… so trying to save draft picks.. and again others.. it’s gonna be tough.. if not pointless
And if the mets dafted above slot.. they wouldn’t need 1st and sandwhich round picks to have a good draft.
Tim Meliville was sitting there in the 4th for the taking.. there will be more then a few draft eligibile sophomores who you could also take over slot etc…
But that’s a story for a different day.. bottom line.. not getting back supplement picks doesn’t mean we can’t have a good draft.. and there’s no way we don’t loose our 1st with all the Type As out there
Eh. Waste of time today.
I am under the impression that Ollie’s picks if he signed with another team are protected. This would mean the Mets could sign 2 Type A free agents and still retain a first round and supplemental pick. While I agree the Mets need to pay above slot…it would probably help if the team focused somewhat on developing its talent even if it is a crapshoot. Many of the Mets first round picks have panned out (if I’m not mistaken Kazmir Wright(supplemental) heilman and big pelf were all first rounders).
I don’t know what anybody sees in either of these guys. Granted I’ve never heard of them before either. Their numbers are horrible. Low strikeouts and a 5+ ERA except for last year when they had a 4.5 ERA.
Also, I don’t think Heilman is a sell low candidate. Just because the fans want to run him out of town doesn’t mean he has no value… He had ONE bad year and blows up in some big spots (which relief picher hasn’t). If there was another Heilman type player on another team, I would jump at the chance to get him. Heilman just needs a change of scenery.
Players don’t usually come into the league and put up good consistent numbers. But if you watched these guys pitch, they are getting better. Getting one of these guys would be better than re-signing Perez.
Agree, you get Perez’s picks, less money, younger, potential for more innings. There’s a lot of upside there.
Sonnastine’s K/9 would be the third best on our team, well ahead of Pelfrey. And his bb/9 would be better than any of our starters. Not to mention Sonnastine was only in his second year last year and Jackson I think was in his first so saying they had low strikes outs and high era’s every year except last year pretty much says nothing.
Jackson has been in the majors since 2003.. he’s a failed can’t miss prospect from the Dodgers
he only pitched 20-30 innings each yr from 03-06, hardly qualifies as anything. plus he’s only 25 and has made progress since his first yr as a starter.
so you wouldent take either of these guys for Heilman who: cant deal with the pressure of NY, ERA was worse then these two, and is five years older, and you say there strikeout numbers are low, but yet both have better strikeout numbers then Pelfrey?
Pelfrey – 200.2 IP/ 110 K
Jackson- 183 IP / 108 K
Sonnanstine- 193 IP/ 124 K
I would trade Heilman and Carp or evans and another low level prospect for either of these guys.
sonnanstine’s numbers are actually better than pelfreys although fairly similar. not a bad guy me thinks. jackson is a former cant miss prospect and i dont care much for those types.
as far as heilman goes, i still like the guy. fortunately most baseball professionals dont make rash decisions on the value of a player after 1 down season. unlike the fans who say heilman has no value and they should have sold while the value was high(while missing the fact they were all for making him a starter a while back and would have flipped if he was dealt then), gms in the league base the value on more than just 1 below average season. heilman still has value, both as a reliever and starter. that bein said, i think he should be shipped out for a change of scenery, because he will never get a fair shot with the fans here.
Do you think if we trade them Heilman they will just “promise” to not pick up the option on Crawford so we can throw him in left.
i would definitely take Sonnanstine for Heilman. that’s a good deal from the mets perspective. they need to grab some young guys with potential and trot them out there and see how they do. it’s funny how everybody wants proven guys, but other than the expensive free agents, you’re not going to find that proven/perfect player. Sonnanstine is a good risk b/c he was considered a good prospect in their organization, and is only going into his 2nd full year in the majors, meaning there is a good chance he improves a bit. For Heilman, this is a steal is Sonnanstine could win 12-14 games and put up an ERA around 4ish. jackson’s stuff is supposedly good, but he never became what everybody thought he’d be with the dodgers. he seems like he could either flame out, or become a Daniel Cabrera type…great stuff, no control whatsoever. and that’s worse than Ollie.
And why are these guys on the market?
They have too many starters.
Pretty much, Garza could be their #4 next year.
Heilman is aweful. At this point I would take anybody for Heilman. They cant be any worse than he is.
i would take Jackson as he is only 25 (like Sonnanstine) and has a greater upside. Sonnanstine has probably reached his ceiling with that low velocity. I watched both in the playoffs and i was much more impressed with Jackson in the pen. Sonnanstine has to have pinpoint control or he gets knocked around.
Throw Jackson in the pen and sign Lowe and trade for Vazquez. The rotation is complete and move on to a catcher and LF.
but he does have that control already, that is why he seems special. 1.36 to 1.29 whip is pretty good for your first 2 yrs.
Move Aaron back into the rotation and make him your #5. The look to sign Lowe or deal for Vasquez for the #3 spot. Gives you a nice Santana-Maine-Lowe/Vasquez-Pelfrey-Heilman. If he is halfway decent in the #5 spot you can deal him at the deadline for a better option.
Spend the cash on the pen and a left fielder!!!!
Oh and deal Castillo for anyone who can put on a uniform!
I dont understand this rumor. Why the fudge monkeys would the Rays take a washed up 31 year old reliever in exchange for a young starter with upside?. This would only make sense if the Mets included a top prospect. I like the idea of trading for Vasquez and moving Heilman to the rotation as the 5th man. I say we ride heilman till his arm falls off, then cut him. hahaha.