|
|
|
According to the New York Post and the Daily News, Omar Minaya told reporters yesterday that it is possible he could sign one big-name, free-agent starting pitcher, in addition to acquiring a low-cost, starting pitcher to compete with Jon Niese for the team’s fifth starter.
…i think it’s pretty clear, based on buzz and reports, etc., that Derek Lowe is the mark…after that, names like Javier Vazquez and Edwin Jackson have been floated around as possible trade acquisitions…just for fun, Johan Santana, John Maine, Mike Pelfrey, Derek Lowe and either vazquez or niese would work for me, though it’s far from ideal…
“In an ideal world, you want to bring Niese into camp as a fifth starter,” Minaya explained to reporters, according to the Post, “and if he takes off he’s got the job.”
“If he doesn’t, he goes to Triple-A, and at some point he’s ready to go. That fifth guy, you’re not going to get that guy in December, you’re going to get that guy in January.”
…i guess the idea would be, if niese takes the spot, then the acquired pitcher, i.e., vazquez or jackson, or some one else, will shift to the bullpen to be a long man…
 |
 |
 |
RSS 2.0 Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Based upon metsblog posts, I thought Jon Niese was already are ace.
No?
My posts? Where is your evidence or this?
im sure he was talking about the bloggers….
Touchy, Matt, touchy!
It’s not touchy. If someone claims Cerrone has a bias, it’s fair for Cerrone to ask him to back it up.
Matt has one of the few voices in reporting that clearly separates their opinion from their reporting. He gives us both, and both are great. But he is always careful to not muddle the two.
That’s largely true of the most other writers on this site. But Cerrone has a gift for it…
Yes but he was responding to something that was obviously aimed at posters, not the blogger himself. That is touchy.
The idea that Vazquez would become the long man out of that group is comical.
If put in the Mets rotation TODAY, he would be the #2 starter. In a rotation of Santana, Lowe, Vazquez, Pelfrey, and Maine, Vazquez would be #3.
Lets just go after Brad Penny. His option was declined. See what he did in the all star game? He is really a closer. Sign him for a 4 year deal and stick him in the bullpen until a cheaper closer comes on the market in a year or two! Add Lowe to the bunch and then make the deal for vasquez. Thats it and thats all.
Here is what your rotation looks like:
santana, Lowe, vasquez, pelfrey and maine with penny as closer.
What more can you ask for. You just got yourself a great rotation without breaking the bank
very interesting rotation…tho i would keep ollie, instead of vasquez…penny is definetly intriguing at closer, but would he agree?
You were saying you expected like 6 innings and 3 runs or something for his first start. I’m not going back, but it was you and then everyone saying how great he is.
and that makes him an ace?
Matt,
If I were the one running this blog I would refrain from answering people who don’t know the difference between ‘our’ and ‘are’ or ‘their’ and ‘there’….
Just my 2 cents…
Not true at all. I think people on here are thinking Niese as our 5th starter, so that we can save money to fill other needs Manny. People don’t know exactly how much money Omar has to spend Manny. Jon Niese’s contract Manny would be much more cost effective Manny than Javier Vasquez’s Manny.
If I Omar were to read this he would probably get on the horn with Boras right away and ink him to a 6year deal. That was a great example of subliminal communication. My brain feels screwed with after reading your comment.
Why am I sensing a subliminal message?
With Brad Penny being on the market now shouldn’t the Mets also consider hi ma strong option??
Not quite, but… he throws a curveball for strikes. That’s still a big deal.
I wouldn’t mind giving Niese some more time to work on his control.
If the Mets signed Lowe and traded for Sonnanstine or Jackson that would be a solid pitching staff.
yep. I was against giving niese a spot initially but i understood the reasoning behind it later. I hope those trades are ledgit and not bs like the majority of the news during this time….
I think Edwin Jackson would be a helluva pickup. Depending on the package Omar would have to give up, he would be a great get.
Also read this morning that the Yanks are making Wilson Betemit available. I think he would be a very good bench player for us.
Betemit would make a nice bat off the bench, but then against so would Rubin Gotay who the Mets had no use for, is a FA now btw… And its way too early to think about trading for guy who might get released before ST.
Keep in mind the Mets have almost a full roster of position players, so a spot would have to be freed up.
Castro, Marlon Anderson, Endy Chavez, with the LF platoon of Murphy/Tatis, and the 7 other starters that gets you to 12 and you have no backup SS. Betemit would fit as that last guy if you don’t mind that he is about as poor a fielding SS/3B as Ruben Gotay…
Betemit would be about the 15th dominoe to fall this offseason though. But its a name to keep in mind.
Did you see what Gotay did last season at the plate? Not to mention the fact that he can’t field at all.
Sign Grudzy.
I’m not for Gotay, I’m making the point that Betemit isnt really any better. He’s the type of guy that I wait to get released and invite him to camp. If not, why bother?
Grudzy would be a fine option for backup IF
Exactly. Great rotaion, then we can swing focus to the bullpen.
omar is focusing on pitching this offseason….I like it!!
he needs to really focus on the pen…
i want a reds (circa 1990) type bullpen
2 closers and a lights out 8th inning guy…
fuentes/k-rod with cruz and biemel feliciano smith stokes and parnell.
We’re not gonna use all our Type A’s on the bullpen, and we sure as hell aren’t getting K-Rod AND Fuentes.
And he is looking to trade Castillo …..I love it !!
“Ideal” for me would be signing Sabathia. Is it realistic? No. But it’s certainly, Ideal…at least for me.
Oh, and did anyone else see that the Dodgers reportedly made a short term offer to Manny that would make him the second highest paid player in baseball?
I know pitching is our priority but I would have liked to have made a run at Manny, or another big market bat.
I feel as if we’re putting all our eggs in one basket with Lowe. If he doesn’t sign with us, our options are Vasquez, Perez or who? Now that, is certainly far from ideal…
yea i saw that scrolling in espn about the offer. Im sure that will not deter omar from making an offer. I dont think all our eggs are in one basket with lowe. Lowe would be like matt said our mark but there are other options.
definitely…sign lowe, trade for vazquez, keep niese in AAA, maybe even convert him to a reliever next year (or if maine keeps up his 5 innings/start, he gets converted, but im getting WAY ahead of myself)
but thats a VERY SOLID rotation of 5
just need one more bat in the lineup…cant decide on whom though (but i want adam dunn)
side note–speaking of solid rotations, i’ve read now the CUBS are the front runners for peavy…can u imagine a rotation of peavy, zambrano, harden, DEMPSTER (if resigned) and Lilly?
To quote Marty McFly, that is HEAVY
Too bad they’re cursed. ;)
Personally, I think that if you are looking at a guy who can either be your 5th starter, or a reliever, Edwin Jackson would be the best mark…He has got great stuff for a reliever, and at the end of the day, the kid is only 25…He made it to the bigs at age 19, but ‘08 was his second full season. He is the exact diamond in the rough type or undervalued player which Omar has made a habit of acquiring (Maine, Perez).
I’m more interested in trading for Jackson than I am in trading for Vazquez.
I think Jackson has closer (as in relief pitching “closer”, not as in “nearer to” closer) stuff and can be converted if/when Niese is ready to join the rotation in 2010. It also never hurts to have young depth in the pitching rotation. The only worry I have is the abundance of RHP, rather than an extra LHP or two sprinkled in.
Why would someone as hittable as Jackson has been be useable as a relief pitcher?
Funny because I was think the same about Vazquez. He averages 9.24 hits per game.
rather per 9 inning
Sounds like a plan. Sign lowe. Trade for Vasquez. Have niese in AAA ready to back up maine.
I’d sign for that.
Ideal for Niese would be looking at him as the 6th starter, and having a ‘quality’ 5th starter on the team that he has to outperform to win the job.
I’d rather have Niese be the backup play rather than Jason Vargas or the Armas Jr, Figueroa types.
Vargas is gonna be Show or Feliciano replacement in the BP!
I’m all for keeping Niese in triple AAA to develop some more – or letting him compete for that 5th spot. When we brought Pelfry up, he had very limited experience in the minors and boy did he struggle – I believe he lost his first 9 starts that year. To his credit, he kept his confidence up and finally started to come around. Not every young pitcher has that kind of mindset to keep believing in themselves when it’s going that bad…..
Javier Vazquez has pitched 200 innings for nine straight years (ok, 198 the one year in NY). Eight of those seasons he finished in the top 10 in Ks, top 5 in five seasons… He has had great success in the National League once upon a time, his high point in 2001 when he was 16-11 with a 3.24 and 1.07 WHIP.
The problem with him is that he melts down in the big spot. Without injury, Santana, Pelfrey and OP (or other top FA) are healthy and 1-3 in the playoff rotation, and Vazquez is a guy that can “get us there” to the playoffs. But will we regret this once we get there?
I understand after these past two years the urgency to just get there, but as much as I like his potential I just don’t think he will ever have the intestinal fortitude to win a playoff game on his own, while Jon Garland can and has.
Bottom line is that I don’t know that bringing in a player who is known for choking in the big spot is right for this team right now. Vazquez has said he does not like being the center of attention, and that he likes to stay home with his family and knows that he is affected by the pressure games (“You know what? I’m not going to [change a lot of opinions about being able to succeed in big games] because I’m really the type of guy that when I retire, I’m going to be home in Puerto Rico with my family. I’m not looking to have to change minds if people feel that way.”)
This team needs leaders who can teach the team how to overcome pressure and step up in adversity, like Johan. Not the other way around.
Everyone needs to stop this “melts down in the big spot” junk.
He stunk in his last 3 starts this year, but 2 of the 3 starts were made on short rest, something he was asked to do twice in his career previously. Ozzie Guillen is a moron.
And if you want to brandish him a playoff choke artist after 4 appearances, fine by me – by you’d be foolish to do so. Give me a larger sample size and then I’ll judge. Vazquez would become the #2 starter if acquired today.
I’m not the one brandishing him a playoff choke artist after 4 appearances, you are. But 0-4 is not a small sample at all, in fact, that’s quite large when you also include his late game starts with the Yanks and White Sox.
Here’s an exercise. Give me one big game where he pitched better than or equal to his career numbers.
Mine:
2008: lost last three games with 18 runs allowed in 12 innings, gave up 6 in 4 innings in playoff start.
2007: Team 24 games out of playoffs, won all four starts in Sept
2006: Team battling to make playoffs, lost last 10 starts
2005: Lost 6 of 7 in Aug-Sept, then team fell to season-high 8GB on Sept 8 and he won 3 of last 4 games
2004: Lost 3 of last 4 games, gave up 12 runs in 11 innings in playoffs, including GS in 2nd innning to first batter he faced (3 charged to Brown) that ended Game 7
2003: Lost 4 of last 5 starts
2002: Pitched same down stretch, Expos in last
2001: Won last 6 starts, Expos in last
You go ahead and take a chance that it’s a small sample and his quotes about hating being center of attention have nothing to do with his inability to pitch well in the big spot. I believe that once in a while the odds are that a big game pitcher will stink in a game, but not all four times. That’s plenty sample for me. Not to mention all the other Sept games I pointed to above.
Oh, and you can have Jon Garland, I’ll take Javier Vazquez.
Our teams will play 32 times, with Garland facing Vazquez each time. I will win more than you will win. Guaranteed.
And just like that, you proved my point — he is a “get you there guy”, which I did not say I was against. If you scroll up I said I don’t know if it was the right move. After the last two years we do need to get to the playoffs, but we also should be able to get there with someone else who can be counted on once we are there.
If this were two years ago I would give your point a lot more credit, but a ‘get us there’ guy is sorely needed after the last two finishes.
Consider the way starters were falling of the wagon down the stretch the last two years and think about how a guy who can give you 6 IP 33 times a year would have helped.
In the postseason they can get through a first round with Santana and Pelfrey pitching 4 times out of 5. And if they are a legic contender they can get through two 7 game series with Vazquez pitching 2 or 3 of those 14 games.
Santana, Pelfrey, Vazquez, Maine, Niese would work for me, and someone else to push Niese to AAA for half the year would be even better.
It would be Lowe or Vazquez and Jackson (low cost guy to compete with Niese)…if we get Vazquez in a trade, Lowe is not on this team, since they will both be making over $10M each….personally I would rather have Vazquez simply because he has two years left on his deal and Lowe would rerquire a 4 year committment and frankly he is too old for that
a Vazquez trade should rid the Mets of contract in return such as Castillo’s so he wouldnt really add to the payroll.
I dont think its a straight one or the other scenario.
signing Lowe and losing a draft pick, while trading a prospect for Vazquez is the type of thing that got the Mets farm system ripped of any talent a few years ago.
Santana, Lowe, Pelfrey, Vazquez, and Maine would be a little surprising though. I think much of the talk of Niese as the 5th starter is to make the Mets look stronger in trade talks. Make it look as if they only need one starter when they really need two.
Can you sign Lowe and trade for Vasquez and have money leftover for other pieces? I think not
Heilman for Sonny, sign Penny & Cordero to one year deals so they can reestablish themselves, still leaves you money for K-Rod. You also get to keep Parnell & Neise or flip them for a guy like Alex Rios or Carl Crawford
If Niese and Parnell would net us Alex Rios (even off a sub par year), I would do it yesterday.
and can u imagine the flak omar will take for getting another latino on the team…
Heilman will not get us Sonny.
It’d more like Heilman, Evans, and another mid-level prospect (if we’re lucky).
Parnell and Niese will not get us Rios or Crawford. I’m not sure what those guys would take to get.
I would easily send Heilman, Evans and a noname for Sonnanstine.
I would too! I was just saying that Heilman alone wouldn’t get the deal done.
No but a valuable piece you would think as he is still cheap and under control. Bigger question is what else would they be looking for? A guy like Parnell? Evans?
Typical met fan, I’m probably overhyped on Parnell & Niese.
Where I think you are wrong is that Heilman’s value is considered higher away from NY.
There are about 5 teams who still like Heilman, and it’s as a starter. Tampa Bay has been mentioned as one of them. But it was also mentioned it would take more then Heilman alone to net one of those 2 guys, which makes perfect sense. Considering Heilman is 29 and hasn’t been a starter in at least 3 years. Sonny and Jackson are both 25, been starters the last 2 years, both had above .500 records in the AL east.
So just putting it together it makes no sense to me and i don’t think a GM would look at that and say Yeah that makes sense.
Is Penny going to be healthy in 2009?
One of the great questions in life.
I would not mind bringing him in for #5 if he would take a 2 year deal to reestablish himself.
I actually think trading for Sonnanstine and Vasquez makes a lot of sense. If you could not get Vasquez I would not mind having Ollie back if Lowe is unavailable.
Johan, Pelfrey, Perez/Vasquez, Maine, Sonnanstine is a young rotation all capable of throwing 200 innings.
If we can’t trade Heilman, I don’t see why we cant have him, the Vargas’s and Niese all competing for the 5th spot.
Am I the only one who is not comforted at all when Omar speaks?
I think the list of those who are comforted at all would be rather short.
No, you arent the only one! I think Omar should trade for Vazquez and sign Lowe. That would bump Maine and Pelfrey to #4 and #5 starters. Maine will wear out our relievers like he always does.
What about trading for Jason Marquis? He would be fine as a #5 starter and only has one more year on his deal. I am sure the Cubs would dump him as they already don’t have the room.
They wanted Endy before. I wonder if they would take Endy, Castillo and some cash?
Marquis is owed around 10 million and Castillo is owed around 18. So I would think 3-5 million and Endy would do the trick?
I wouldn’t put Endy in a deal like that. I think people really undervalue him, even with his horrible bat he’s so good defensively that he saves you more runs than he costs you at the plate.
Yeah- but if losing him gets rid of Castillo and brings in a number 5 starter I’d say thank you and good bye.
Agreed. I am not sure we can continue to carry all defense no hit guys anyway. To me Pagan has more value.
I’m pretty sure Endy is the only no-hit all defense player we actually have. The rest of them are no hit no defense.
Pagan would be a suitable replacement for Endy on the bench, though he is mostly hit and shakey in the field…
What about Awful Reyes?
I forgot about him, but his defense at 2nd isnt nearly as good as Endy’s in the outfield. Plus Endy has never been as horrible offensively as A. Reyes was.
Hopefully trade rumors of Edwin Jackson stop floating around and cease to exist. But please please please Omar find a way to get Vazquez.
Also I think too many people equate velocity with stuff. Edwin Jackson does not have great “stuff’ he had mediore hittable stuff that he happens to throw hard, and in turn gets hit hard. There’s a reason this guy has never lived up to his prospect hype and a reason a third team is trying to trade him.
Sorry. I didn’t see your post before I posted mine. I totally agree!
Can someone tell me what all this hoopla over Jackson is? I looked up his Wiki profile. He was ONCE a highly touted prospect. Average AA and lower stats. Stunk in AAA and majors.. He did OK last year. A lot better than the year before. Why all the talk about him?
Tampa needs to make room for David Price in thier rotation, and Jackson had a decent enough year that the Rays are trying to sell high.
I would hold out for Sonnanstien if the Rays really want to trade a starter. If I were them I would just put Jackson in the pen as a long man.
“Vazquez would become the #2 starter if acquired today.”
Cobblers!
What’s to refute about this statement?
what about this idea, bring in edwin jackson and move him into the bullpen later in games. the kid has really good stuff and if we could give up heilman and maybe one other lower end prospect for him, I would love him in the setup or closer role. my ideal rotation for 2009 would be: Johan, Maine, Pelfrey, Oli/Lowe, Niese
Let’s say the Mets add one or two of the following: Vazquez, Lowe, Sonnastine, Jackson. That would be swell. Any of those guys can pitch on this staff. And keep Niese in the picture, just in case.