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‘Talks between the Rockies and Cardinals about a trade of OF Matt Holliday have hit a dead end,” reported Tracy Ringolsby in yesterday’s Rocky Mountain News.
In fact, Cardinals GM John Mozeliak recently told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, “That one’s not happening – at all.”
According to Ringolsby, the Rockies asked for Cardinals OF, Ryan Ludwick, OF Skip Schumaker and RHP prospect Mitchell Boggs for Holliday, who will earn $13.5 million in 2009 and eligible to be a free agent after next season.
Meanwhile, according to the Post-Dispatch, ‘A cluster of teams, including the Phillies and Mets, is also in pursuit of Holliday.’
Ringolsby mentions the Phillies as having interest in Holliday, as well as the Red Sox, Rays and Yankees, however he does not mention the Mets.
…i actually have no idea what the Mets can offer that would look similar to what was asked of the Cardinals, but i assume it would have to include Daniel Murphy…
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I don’t want Holiday at that price… Cards package is solid for a 1-yr rental. If Holiday was a Pujols-esqe hitter out of COL, then he’s worth a ton, otherwise I think he is a very good, but not elite player….
Our focus should be on relievers and starters… Use our chips for Putz, Soria or starters under contract
DON’T WANT HIM!!!!!!! rather have teixeira now and for the future at the same price, guys, believ me when i say this, F-MART will be a monster, i will go to dominican rep in december, he’s playing with LEONES DEL ESCOGIDO there, and he’s doing real good, my old coach who’s a trainer with the team told my friend he’s a natural pure hitter who will be a beast once he’s settle, he also trained polonia, sammy sosa, and jose reyes… 2 out of 3 ain’t bad for a preditcion.. GET TEX, K-ROD, TRADE DELGADO AND GET RID OF CASTILLO!!!!!!
F-mart might be a big fan of the RF over-hang in Citifield.
Hopefully…we will be a big fan of that match.
That cardinals deal is alot to pay for a one year of Holiday while paying his salary. If the Rockies were picking up some of the money then the deal would somewhat fair.
I guess the Mets would have to include Murphy or FM in that deal so I would have to say no. Even if they would take Heilman and Castillo off our hands…
Daniel Murphy in Coors field, there is sweet match at the plate. But they would have to play him at 3B as he would butcher that big LF they have.
The Mets should trade murphy this offseason if they don’t see him as a 2B. He is easily replacable as a LF or 1B
Agreed. As good a hitter as Murphy is, he projects to be a 15-20 HR guy without a defensive position. There’s a TON of guys like that.
Murphy, Niese & Kunz for Holliday with an exclusive contract window.
Might not seem as good as the Cardinals’ package but remember, Ludwick is 30 yr. old and Schumaker is 28.
Murphy is 24, Niese is 21 and Kunz is 23. Youth and affordability are VERY alluring for mid-market teams like the Rockies…
Because home runs is the only offensive stat that matters!
Maybe you should project his potential OBP, which could be extremely high.
And with all of the doubles he hits, his OPS could be huge too….I agree that a team develops prospects to trade some of them, but Murphy could be a special player….PLEASE let him bat and play second to start the year….
He has shown great numbers in A, AA, and a short stint last September….I hope we give him a chance before trading him.
I’m not opposed to keeping Murphy, but NO ONE in the Mets organization is proclaiming him to be our next 2B. There’s *probably* a reason for that.
ENOUGH with the Murphy 2B talk…
Then why is he playing 2B in winter ball? If your idea on this is so clearly true, wouldn’t he be playing LF/RF??
He’s not playing in winter ball.. he’s playing it in the Arizona FALL League.
If he does play 2b in Winter Ball perhaps theres a chance he could play 2b.. but the Mets have been quoted as saying he will infact play OF during winterball.. since OF is a new position for him too
Oops, meant AZ Fall League of course…and yes, what he plays in Winter Ball will indeed go a long way towards deciding this….
Just haven’t heard the Mets mention Hudson once, as they seem to be all about pitching and maybe one more bat, and it seems like the only place I hear mention of Hudson is on here….cannot imagine we are going into 2009 with Slappy and Argenis the Outmaker at 2nd…
Well I think they need to dump Castillo before they can replace him with anyone….
If that happens.. you’ll probably see them start to tip their hand.. be it Murphy.. Hudson.. etc
it would probably cost the Mets Murphy, Niese and Church….that would be more comparable to the Cards package
Agree to disagree.
Church is worse than Ludwick and they’re comparable in age. He’s also on the brink of his arbitration years, a full-fledged free-agent by 2010. COL wants young, controllable talent. That’s why St. Louis ran into a wall..
I agree that Ludwick has more overall value than Church, but Murphy might be more appealing than Schumaker….I get the sense that both packages might be too much for a 1 year rental of Holiday…especially Ludwick coming off a monster year, although he is a late bloomer
Which is why I proposed an ‘exclusive negotiating window.’
Without one, acquiring Holliday is useless (1-yr. rental for too many prospects)…
The only issue with the negotiating widow is that you’ve got to deal with Boras, who has all the cards. Remember how tough he was in the Dice-K negotiations? The Sox had a month to make a deal…who ever trades for Holliday will have 3 days. Boras will undoubtedly ask for something ridiculous, like $200 million, and have a muc hbetter chance of getting it.
Youth and affordability should be alluring to all teams including the Mets. There’s no way I trade 18 controlled years of good player for one year of Holliday after which we will have to pay upwards of $20M/season to retain him. I doubt if I would trade that for 2 Matt Hollidays (under those price conditions.)
Gentlemen there are only so many $20M/year long term deals the Mets can give out and only so many young players we can afford to give away.
I’m still pro-Murphy at 2nd in 2009.
Next!
if we get a big hitter like manny or holliday for RF,we can trade church for pitching and put f-mart in LF. BTW he is hitting 326 in 46 AB in the DWL
Not to mentin 3 home runs and 1 triple with 10 rbi’s and 9 runs scored.. HE’S ONLY 18 YEARS OLD!!!!!!
SORRY 19!!
Well…barring injury, trade, or meltdown…he will be in Citi at some point in 2009.
He’s 20 now (DOB: 10/10/1988). The Teenage Hitting Machine moniker no longer applies.
F-mart in Citi this year? Doubtful
I would say very probable. IF he stays healthy and continues his progression…or IOW he just needs to be at least average(obv hoping he plays above-avg)
With the amount of injuries that have hit our OF in the past two years and the simple option of Sept. call-ups…I think there is a very good chance of seeing him in Citi at some point this season.
Now, if he gets called up mid-season, that might not be a good thing considering it prolly was due to an injured starter or our team playing horrible that we need to change things up and bring up a jolt.
BUT MAYBE AND HOPEFULLY… its b/c he’s tearing the cover off the ball and we cant ignore his success and potential impact to our team (obv best-case scenario)
I think he is 20 now…I saw him play in ESPN deportes and his swing is more straight now, like beltran and he looks more mature.
Yep, he turned 20 Oct. 10. Still, he’s hitting .341, so hopefully he’s on the right track. He’ll be at AAA this year and probably get called up at some point in ‘09.
That package from the cards is terrible. is that the best they can do? then how about church, heilman and evans?
Yeah and he’s spent 2 years in AA and still hasn’t put up legit numbers.
As 19 yr. olds:
F-Mart .287/.340/.432 in AA
Wright .266/.364/.401 in low A ball
Miguel Cabrera .274/.326/.421 in high A ball
Matt Holliday .264/.342/.435 in low A ball
Do you want me to continue? Or do you realize that F-Mart held his own as a 19 year old playing at least one level above where 19 year olds play?
He had better produce this year. F-Mart has been in the Minors for a year LONGER than the players you named.
It’s about time he’s put up some legitimate ’superstar in the making’ numbers or else his value will continue to plummet (has fallen 27 spots in Baseball America’s most recent top-50 list)…
baseball america? where was dan murphy last year? thank you..
Good player, but overrated (rep is bigger than reality). There are other guys that overall give you comparable value, without the “name” brand, at a much lower cost.
Besides, it is a 1 year rental, and should return value as such. Unless you get a negotiating window (like with Johan) not worth emptying the farm for a Boras client.
Also, corner OFs are (theoretically) the easiest players to get, and his D is nothing to write home about.
Could Orioles 2B Brian Roberts be had for less than Holliday??
Because he’d certainly be worth more to us.
alou, pedro and el duque for brian roberts? DONE!!!
yeah im a fan of holliday, and while his batting avg. and ops are pretty good away from coors, the HRs and RBI the last 3 years away arent that good..he’s averaging like 11hrs and 40 rbis on the road, which arent very impressive. Im sure he’ll put up pretty darn good numbers anywhere he goes, but for the package you’d have to trade for him AND then the contract extension, he’s not really worth it
The best thing for baseball would be he’s traded now to another team and then everyone can see how he does with one full year away from coors
Amen!, The Big Cat went from a wash-out to Superstar
@Coors, Bichette went from journeyman to AllStar @ Coors
And Larry Walker went from AllStar to putting up HOF numbers in Denver. Thanks But no Thanks to Holliday.
I’m not sure Holliday is the right fit, but remember that it’s early when you think things like “…i actually have no idea what the Mets can offer that would look similar to what was asked of the Cardinals,” We didn’t have what it took to get Johan at the beginning of the trade negotiations, either. Things change.
guys, read this article and comments by omar minaya in the new york times:
“Most witnesses of the Mets’ bullpen meltdown last season, those who can still see crucial victories squandered night after September night, would probably just as soon not see the names responsible for another missed postseason – Heilman, Schoeneweis, Ayala, Feliciano – ever take the mound at Citi Field.
“You’re not going to just trade people for the sake of trading people,” Mets General Manager Omar Minaya said at the just-concluded general managers’ meetings. “It’s not that easy. It’s got to make sense.”
i sense this guy is not gonna get it done… AGAIN.. thoughts..
OR it could be that no one in their right minds would anyone from our horrendous bullpen..
Please stop now with this FMart in ‘09 junk.
Spent way too much time arguing with my fellow Met
fans about this guy and his timetable to New York.
Unlike just about everyone who posts here, I’ve seen
him play the last two years and he’s not close to ready.
He’ll likely start (again) at AA and maybe if he can stay
healthy and begin to hit breaking balls make his way
to AAA sometime in the second half. As I posted during
the winter of ‘06-’07 MAYBE we see himat somepoint
in 2010 when he’ll still only be 21y/o.
WE NEED A VET RIGHTY PROVEN RBI BAT FOR LF.
Not a hope and a dream.
I agreed and disagree with you, just coz he’s 20 yo doesn’t mean he can’t come up and produced, while there has been many cases that it doesn’t happen there’s been cases in which they do ( pujols, cabrera, a-rod, jeter, d-wright). is not how young u are but how serious and eager u are to learn. i’m sure that if healthy, he can come up and be a good addition for the mets for years and years to come… but then again, it might not happen as well..
But all the guys you mention (off the top of my head)
Killed in the minors before they were called up.
Martinez has been VERY AVERAGE (when healthy).
But hey, If he tears it up in spring let him make the
team and get some ABs. However, He cant be counted on. Omar MUST bring in an RBI guy whos
no 40(like Alou) and has a history of good health
–Again,unlike Alou.
There is a big similarity between seeing FMart in 09 and signing a Vet LF and that similarity is they can both happen…and most likely will both happen.
Fmart will not be with the team come April in 2009 and if he is its b/c omar screwed up and didnt sign someone, we have an injured starter, and/or Fmart is tearing the cover off the ball.
That said…we have gone through many OF in the past two years and with Omar saying Fmart will most likely start in AAA this year, there could be a chance Fmart is called up due to an injury and/or he is tearing the cover off the ball mid-season.
BUT if that doesn’t happen, then theres a very good chance he gets a taste of citifield in Sept 2009 at the very least.
My guess it’ll be a Sept-callup and/or we had a major injury in the OF (not ideal I know, but then again maybe itll be different w/o a 40 year old starting LF)
Sounds just like last winter. Alou on a one year 10Mil
contract anyone???
I sense he’ll add 1 big name ala fuentes or krod, and one scrap heap guy like he did with wise last year and then say the bullpen is fixed.
lol, i think so too.. we need at least 3 to 4 NEW guys in the bullpen..
Well last year we got Johan then Omar said the bullpen was fixed….Omar covered-up a horrible 2007 bullpen with a new fancy toy. “Don’t ask, don’t tell” approach.
I just don’t see the point of emptying the farm for a LF, no matter how good he is (I am ignoring his h/r splits for this argument). We need pitching and he can’t pitch, so what’s the point? My solution? Of all the different ideas thrown out there, I’ll throw out mine and see what the public thinks.
Sign CC and an injury risk (Mulder or Prior?) for the 5th spot to compete with Niese and Vargas. They seem to think Vargas might be ready, so with an injury risk and those two, let them have at it.
Sign K-Rod and Beimel. Trade Heilman to the Rangers for Frank Catalanotto. He plays OF and 2b. He hits .275 and has 9mil/2yrs left on his contract. We are actually overpaying on that deal I believe, so they might even eat a little of his contract or throw in a prospect. Do one of Omar’s “reliever for reliever” trades with Show or Feliciano because we don’t need both. Dump Castillo to the Dodgers for Andruw. Murphy is your 2b or super-sub, Catalanotto can play 2nd or ride the pine either way.
We end up signing 2 Type A’s and 1 Type B and let Ollie walk so our picks end up a wash. I haven’t figured out the exact numbers on the salary, but they should be in the ballpark for what we are looking at. The rotation looks great 1-4 and should be okay at the 5th, the bullpen is revamped and looks solid, and the offense is still lethal. The biggest problem is that it means a bidding war for CC.
How bout Brad Penny as a 5th starter? He might be undervalued because of his injuries last year. Dodgers declined his option.
chico, great point, i’ve always thought we needed a guy like Frank Catalanotto, he’s a spark plug who plays different positions, i’d sign cc too but i rather have ollie for 3 to 4 years, garland and/or maybe trade for jackson or sonnantine from tampa, then sign teixeira.. our offense would be set for years to come and in upcoming free agency or draft our focus will be only in pitching..
Hate to be a bandwagon jumper BUT agreed.
I’ve thought for the last two seasons we needed a tough
“gamer” w/high OBP to hit #2 in this lineup.
Now I know Omars idea was that was castillo but as I
argued before and after his re-signing, HE was a bad
move both cost wise and in the fact you couldn’t trust
him from not breaking down. I like Frankie C. from Long
Island BUT buyer beware,hes often banged-up too.
Penny is another injury risk we could take a chance on. I looked more at Mulder and would be inclined to say no now. But Freddy Garcia would be another. As for CC v Ollie, I’ll take CC because Ollie is too much of a headcase for me. I can’t take the headaches he causes. I’m as sick of him as the whole bullpen. Plus, by letting him go, we get the draft picks back that we will lose for signing the other players. If we sign Ollie and Tex, we lose our first round pick and don’t get any supplemental picks either. Our first pick would be in the 2nd round. If we signed any other Type A players, our best pick would be in the 3rd round. That’s the best reason to let Ollie walk, so we can restock the draft picks we lose by signing all those Type A players.
couldnt agree with u more alex….i’ve read on a few websites that the A’s are looking for a “veteran power hitting 1b/DH on a short, affordable contract” which is why they probably WONT sign Giambi, who they’ve been rumored to sign, because he wants a 2 or 3 year deal. So that being said, Delgado with a prospect or 2 for Street.
Then Sign Texiera. He is JUST what this team needs…
then Sign K-Rod or Fuentes to close and a pitcher among Lowe, Ollie (who i want), or Garland…
and if u still have some left over to trade for jackson or sonnanstine or Vazquez
And of course, sign one more B bullpen arm, like Biemel or Lyons
Now i say get 2 more starting pitchers because you might have to include niese in one of those trades
So then you have Johan, Maine, Pelfrey, ollie/lowe/garland, and Sonny/Jackson/Vazquez
Street Sets up for K rod….
a lot to do, and im sure it’s a pipe dream, but lets face it, this team, while still being an above average team, needs A LOT of work…
To Chico:
Yes on C.C. I feel this should be priority #1!
Forget about Mulder or Prior, i’d rather them go after Penny (who throws hard), Livan Hernandez (who eats up innings), or give Niese a shot.
And i also agree with your other moves…good post.
CC would be great but aint gonna happen.
Amen to keeping guys like Mulder and Prior away from
Flushing And as far as Livan,Thanks But no thanks.
That ship has sailed And his Brother did enough damage to this team. Penny is a very interesting possibility though.
what you’re saying about CC is what they said about johan and the mets at this same time last year, so you never know
Personally, I’d love to get Holliday. He’s a solid, consistant player and he’d help out this team immensly. That being said, I really don’t think the Mets have the chips to make a deal like that.
If we were, it would have to include Murphy (obviously) but the Rockies also want pitching. So, what, Pelfrey too? No thanks. Colorado would expect MLB talent in return (i.e. Victorino, Ludwick). The only comparison we could have is Pelfrey or Church. And that’s not going to do it. So, while I’d love him, I don’t think the Mets have a chance in heck…
And for the people who are saying “i don’t want a 1 yr rental”. Please get your head out of your butts and be realistic. Obviously which ever team eventually signs Holliday will do it while negotiating a contract for multiple years…
If Boras is your agent, there is no such thing as negotiating an extension. He wants Holliday to hit the open market, so nothing is going to stop him from doing that, because that’s how he is going to get paid. So you can ask for a window, but it won’t do much good.
One thing to keep in mind people:
Balance the rotation! 2 or 3 LHP, 2 or 3 RHP!!
LHP’s RHP’s
Washburn *Maine
Wolf *Pelfrey
*Johan Jackson
CC Sonnanstine
Vasquez (ours) Penny
Ollie Lowe
Bedard Prior
Buehrle Vasquez (CWS)
Gorzelanny Garland
Kazmir Garcia
Lilly
Well that didn’t come out like I would have liked! The point being you don’t want to overload the rotation with RHP’s. I pulled as many of the LHP’s as I could find.
Try again!
LHP
Washburn (SEA)
Wolf
*Johan
CC
Lester (BOS)
Vasquez (ours)
Ollie
Bedard
Buehrle (CWS)
Gorzelanny
Kazmir (TB)
Ted Lilly (Cubs)
RHP
*Maine
*Pelfrey
Edwin Jackson
Sonnanstine
Penny
Lowe
Prior
Vasquez (White Sox)
Garland
Freddy Garcia