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To watch today’s edition of New York Baseball Today: Hot Stove Edition, during which I talk by phone with Ken Davidoff, who writes the Baseball Insider for Newsday, during which we talk about the Mets and Jermaine Dye, and the Yankees and CC Sabathia, click play below:
To send in a question for next week’s New York Baseball Today, email it to baseball@sny.tv.
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How bout this trade:
METS GET:
Dye
Vazquez
Jenks
and low level prospect
CHI SOX GET:
F-Martinez
Niese
Murphy
Holt
and
Argenis Reyes
I know we are giving up a ton of talent and I’m not sure that would be enough but the way I see it if we can trade for our needs we also don’t lose the two draft pics K-Rod and Fuentes would cost…in addition we can sign Lowe or another quality guy..
Let me know your thoughts…thanks
The White Sox wouldn’t make that deal. I’m pretty sure Holt can’t get traded yet, no one is going to want a. reyes, or atleast he won’t be a difference maker in any trade. So you’re basically looking at a package of Murphy, Niese and F-mart. Which miiight be enough for Dye alone.
Those type of trades never happen in anything other than video games and fantasy leagues.
and even in video games, you have to adjust the trade about 72 times before you can get the cpu to accept it.
lol!!!!
Holt can’t be traded until one year after he is drafted. I was actually thinking of this same sort of deal. I have heard the Mets connected to all three Sox players. I have heard that Ken Williams likes Heilman. Don’t underestimate Heilman’s value. He had a bad year, but a lot of teams think he is miscast as a reliever. Almost any team the Mets trade him to I would bet will put him into their rotation. I’d like to keep Murphy out of any deal, though if it’s possible.
I just don’t think that is a good trade from the Mets perspective for several reasons..
First off, by the Mets taking Dye/Vazquez, thats a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge amount of salary relief for the Chi-Sox…that trade adds over $25 million to the Mets Payroll.
Second, that deal is EXTREMELY short sighted….Dye and Vazquez are nearing the end of their careers, and the Mets are trading 4 of their top prospects, one of whom is a 20yr old who did very well in Bingo for his age, and another who had very good success in the big league level in Murph. When Dye/Vazquez are gone, those other guys would be around for a lot longer.
To me, this deal is really Jenks for the guys you mentioned, and I think that F-Mart himself is worth much more than that. If you can make a similar deal without gutting the minors/moving the blue chip talent, then its something to consider. Otherwise, this is a very bad deal for the Mets.
agreed — its WAAY too much.
Dye is 34 and the Sox are looking to dump him. Vasquez is their #5 starter and you are giving up out twotop prospects (call Murph a prospect even thou he technically has enough at bats to not be) and a young fireballer that cant even be traded.
Sort sighted and highway robbery.
Jenks is nice but not really worth a kings ransom.
We don’t lose 2 draft picks but we lose 4 prospects and a decent infield fill-in. Makes sense NOT…..
I don’t think that would be enough.
Realistically the best thing we could do is sign Krod and trade for Vasquez and take back Jose Contreras’ contract for Castillo in the trade.
Contreras could be the #5 starter, long relief or released for that matter.
One guy who I NEVER heard mentioned, and I think would be a GREAT signing would be Brad Penny.
As long as we could still face him 3 times a year some how ;)
But, Penny would be a decent pick up for the #5 spot. I just wonder how much he would want. Maybe he would come in on a 1 year incentive contract to try and rebuild his value?
Brad Penny?? Look at his stats from 08 and then you will find out why no one is talking about him.
Ok fair enough…
How bout this we subtract Holt ( who can’t be traded yet) and add Kunz ( future replacement for Jenks) and Mike Carp ( future replacement for Konerko) and add Heilman and pay most of Castillo’s deal.
so revised trade
METS GET:
Dye
Vazquez
Jenks
and low level prospect
CHI SOX GET:
Heilman
F-Martinez
Niese
Murphy
Kunz
Carp
Luis Castillo ( we eat about 8 MM)
now would you do it?
Have you ever seen a trade like this?
This is not a video game, come on.
When is the last time that 3 stars from one team were traded for 7 players?
Not only that, You cant give up the whole Farm in a trade, Maybe one or two prospects. But all of AAA?
Kunz only has value in Mets fans eyes he has been talked about by scouts of other teams who don’t like him at all. He is another hyped up prospect that is it. The Mets future closer. How old is he now? They have this guy hyped up and if he was the future closer where was he last year? The Mets did not use him at all and it must have been for a reason other then he does not have major league experience or whatever there reason was for not using him last year in any inning let alone the ninth inning.
In that trade the White Sox’s see good value in F-Mart and Neise and some in Heilman …. not nearly enough to get Jenks, Dye, and Vazquez and those 3 alone might be able to get Jenks or Dye something I would not do if I am the Mets.
I’m with you 100%. Kunz is not anything special at all. I think the same is likely for Parnell.
Let’s remember back to guys like Petit, and Yarnall — guys we used to be excited about that amounted to nothing. And those guys were more exciting to us and others than Kunz and Parnell.
These names are throw-in names, not “gotta have prospects.”
I think Holt is intriguing. I think Flores is intriguing. And of course F-Mart. Beyond that, there’s nothing much on the farm to be excited about.
This isn’t the NBA. No one in the MLB trades 7 guys for anything really.
Hey why not..its intriguing and you never know if Kenny Williams logs onto Metsblog.com..
Hi Guys, this is great stuff, I am going to think about it!!!!
lol thanks kenny
Hey look we have alot of needs…dye would help our lineup, vazquez would be better in the NL, and Jenks would allow us to breathe easier come the 9th inning…sometimes you gotta give to get and the mets can always go out and sign a few players and restock later..the players on this team aren’t getting younger..our window of opportunity is now..
Do those players make since for us? Yes. But again, trades like this just do not happen. Sorry, this is not a video game. It’s fun to draw it up but it just won’t happen. The Sox could get more talent in 3 seperate trades and the Mets can’t afford to give up their entire farm.
We would be more likely to get Vasquez and Swisher for Castillo and Murphy.
LOL,stop guys, we will get vasquez, omar loves him, dye i’m not too sure, and as i stated b4, there’s gotta be something qrong with jenks. coz there’s no way a team that had just made the playoffs would let its young, cheap closer just go!! that is a red flag to me!! yes he throws 100mph but so does farnsworth and the guy from detroit zumaya and how are they doing right now??
Wow, what is a coz?
coz is slang for : BECAUSE..
I know I am behind on the times but don’t you think your post would have more weight if you at least attempted 1st grade grammar?
YES, I’M STILL TRYING TO FIGUERE OUT WHAT THIS MEANS?
“Do those players make since for us?”
DON’T JUDGE OK!!
Sorry but that’s a spelling error, a mistake, a mishap. Like your “qrong”. Not typing like a 16 year old would on his cell phone.
Well, regardless of what u say it didn’t see to bother no one else but u!! or should i specify u.. means you.. thanks
Wow, thanks for spicing that one up even more.
Real question, how old are you?
OLD ENUFFFFFF!! and you? are you a teacher?
Umm, yes?
ok, well i’m glad for you since you seem to be perfect at everything.. was that written well enough for you to understand? or should i write it in spanish?
Capitalize your “I”
“our window of opportunity is now..”
are you serious!!!???
The players on any team aren’t getting younger, does everyone need to make moves now?
didn’t brad penny get hurt this past season, hence the bad numbers, and didn’t he win 17 games the two prior season to last year? and isn’t he feeling good after the surgery he had? you can;t look at one year when it comes to pitchers, look how good hielman was two years ago, and then how bad he was lat year, it’s a year to year basis for pitchers. he wouldn’t command as much as he would if he such a big year. a 5-man rotation of:
Santana
Pelfrey
Lowe
Maine
Penny
tell me you wouldn’t be giddy about that?
Good enough for me, infact I am not sure if you get Penny that you need to spend the 4 years on Lowe. Maybe a lower end guy that will eat innings. Then you still have Niese waiting in the wings. Someone like Randy Wolfe would sufice.
Presuming the Mets loose out on Lowe…I think you must bring in two proven starters a la Vazquez and Wolf, (letting niese, etc. develop thier talents further and insuring against a Maine/pelfrey flop)….However does that rotation get you deep into October??? Who are we not thinking about here as a SP option????
Regarding the pen, it will obviously be improved or Omar will be crucified….for starters one of the poster boys for this teams failures…heilman will be a goner….
However, i simply don’t trust omar to make an all around sound team without neglecting some area, eg. last years moves to stabilize the pen
If you are asking if a rotation of
Johan, Pelfrey, Maine, Wolf, Penny gets you to the post season? It’s better than the 5 we had this season and should log a lot more innings.
I’d take wolf over penny and his trick shoulder….add perhaps vazquez to the mix, being reborn in the nl, he’s gotta give you better production than pedro in his last two years
Plus the Mets absolutely destroy Penney..His stats would look a lot better without those few starts
Ok i hear everything you guys are saying…How about these moves
Dye and Vazquez and like one guy said take back Contreras for long man spot starter role for Church, Murphy, Parnell, and eat most of Castillo’s deal.
We could then sign Ibanez to play left
Trade Heilman and Evans and a prospect to Colorado for Huston Street
(8th inning role)
Sign K-Rod to be our closer (4 years $57 Million)
Lineup:
Reyes-SS
Beltran-CF
Wright-3B
Delgado-1B
Dye-RF
Ibanez-LF
Schneider-C
SP:
Santana
Vazquez
Pelfrey
Maine
Niese
Bullpen:
K-Rod-Closer
Street- 8th Inning
Feliciano
Smith
Contreras
Stokes
Kunz
You can kill me..its ok..rip away…
You’re adding too much salary
exactly the point I made earlier. He is over-valuing what it would take to acquire Dye/Vazquez. The Mets would take on $25mill from those two alone next season, which (combined with scheduled raises) negates the expiring contracts of Pedro/Alou/et.al….In a salary dump, Chicago would not get players the caliber of Murph/Parnell.
Signing K-Rod/Ibanez would add another $25ish mill in salary. At the end of the day, you are adding $50 mill in salary, and barely did anything to address the bullpen, which is the primary goal of this offseason. K-Rod is good, but they still need at least one good set-up guy, who would come in the form of a free agent. Street doesn’t have a good enough medical history to be counted on for a full season.
and way too much age. That is 2 37 yo OFs surrounding Beltran!
That lineup is fantastic. Too bad a key position is missing. Its ok, we can just prop up a bag of oats to play second base?
You stole my thunder. Damn you!
Who would hit for a higher average, a bag of oats or Luis Castillo? Who would field the position better? Please don’t reply with, “it depends on how big the bag of oats is.”
Detroit & Florida pulled off a huge deal last year, & with better players than Dye, Vasquez & Jenks.
Dye is a good guy, but I wouldn’t part with FMart or Murphy unless they were willing to take Castillo in the deal. he’s just not worth it.
To me, Pitching starts and stops with Sabathia. If we can’t have him, I’d be tempted to go with Heilman, Neise, Parnell, Vargas at the 4/5 spots. Because of his age, i think Jon Garland is worth a look. Vasquez isn’t that good.
Jenks is worth a good prospect. I’m down on FMart. I think Wilmer Flores will be a much better ballplayer, making FMart expendable. Value for value. I think it’s a wash. I think the sox will want a little more
Florida was trying to rebuild. Miggy was still good, Willis not so much. Still that was 2 players from one team and prospects to the next.
If you think your going to be anywhere near a playoff team with Heilman Neise Parnell or vargas holding a starting Spot, Along with an Unproven Pelfrey. Your kidding me. Look at the yankee’s last year.
I’d rather have Vasquez and Lowe then if someone goes on the DL have Neise or Vargas to be called up to take that spot.
I’d rather not trade F-Mart if at all possible. He’s improved every season getting thrown ahead before he’s ready.
There are plenty of options on free agency before we throw away our entire minor league team to acquire a few guys.
Plus i read that they plan on keeping contreras, Especially if they trade jenks they think he can be a closer.
The Mets aren’t going to Fill the LF, SP and Closer spot in one trade to one team. It will take some Free Agents, Some trades, and possibly one through the farm system.
How about we ask the White Sox to include Alexi Ramires to play 2nd and swap Delgado to them for Konerko. I mean they should do that also.
That would solve Getting younger at 1b, solve 2nd, solve LF, and net 2 SP’s and a closer. Deal… Done… Offseason over.
You can’t call Pelfrey unproven at this point, not to the extent of the Yankee staff. If you have a solid FA signing then you can survive with an innings eater at number 5. Look at this year’s Phillies and say that again.
And I am as suming you are joking about Ramirez but that was one we really missed out on. I was calling for us to get more involved with him when he was available.
how can you compare the mets rotation to the yankees rotation last year, their rookies were injured most of the season. and Pelfrey is a proven starter, going into his 3rd season now. and Vargas is like 24, and if he hadn’t gotten hurt would be a sufficient 5th starter.
I can compare the 2, when referencing the above original comment :
“I’d be tempted to go with Heilman, Neise, Parnell, Vargas at the 4/5 spots.”
That would be the exact same as Hughes and Kennedy, and then I was going along the lines of Pelfrey and Wang being similar. While Wang was way more proven the pelfrey having won 38 games in 2 years as compared to pelfrey’s 18 in 3 years. Did he come on strong from June on Sure. But to call him proven already… on the same stage as Wang. That left the yanks with Pettitte and Moose and 3 bums. Would you want the mets to be Johan, Pelfrey, and 3 bums if maine got injured?
So to Rely on him and 2 rookies would be a huge QUESTION, and be in the same Boat as the yanks last year.
As far as Ramirez i was joking. That deal would never happen, why would the white six mortgage 4 players who almost got them to the playoffs for 7 prospects 1 maybe 2 of which are major league ready. So i boosted it to include Delgado who i want gone and acquiring Ramirez and Konerko.
Look at the Yankees THIS year! Imagine if they somehow (unlikely, yes I know) swing and miss in free agency. Their current under contract starting rotation is:
Wang
Chamberlain
Hughes
Kennedy
Rasner/Britton
That rotation battles with the O’s to stay out of 5th place!
Hey this is what makes this site great..i’m glad you guys are being honest..i’ll stick to my day job haha..thanks
I dont get why people want to trade our farm, when we can get better players via free agency.
Good question, you have to have a mix of both. We do a bad job of selling high. Once you have hung on to a player too long you have to keep them.
With Fmart, we need to either commit to him being the starter in 2010 or trade him now. Same with Murphy, either commit to him being a fulltime player by 2010 or trade him now.
If you want more than 2-3 quality players, you will have to trade for them. There is only so much money in the pool, plus I think we are limited to the number of free agnets we can sign. Prospects are alwayas a crap shoot. Baseball history is littered with “can’t miss” guys who never made the jump, or got hurt. Give Rick Ankiel credit. Her’es a “can’t miss” guy who missed and recast himself as a position player
We are not limited in the amount of FA we can sign. If you want to use the type a arguement that’s out the window. If you say we can’t afford them that is true. However, you can fill most by FA. I am sure the Mets can afford Krod, Lowe and Ibanez if they really wanted to.
More likely it would be Krod, Garland and some trades.
I am sure Omar will acquire players through trade and FA this offseason.
I understand, but you dont trade top prospects like f-mart,niese,etc for avg players. there are exceptions of course like we did with santana last year.
Rick Ankeil was awesome as a rookie, He was 11-7 with 194k’s in 174 innings, a 3.54 ERA and 1.29 WHIP. Then he completely lost it, and could never get it back. His transformation has been incredible. This is why when people were discussing acquiring one of the Cards OFers he’d be the one I wanted because he’s still improving every year.
Prospects are always a crap shoot, but you need to have those guys there to call up if guys get hurt. IF you trade your entire farm system to fill your major league roster, what do you do if 4 or 5 guys get hurt. You have nothing to call upon. Like exactly what happened to the mets and yankees last year.
You Cannot keep every prospect, and you cannot trade all of them either. It’s one of those things in baseball where the teams that do one or the other never work, and the ones that do it right look great. Like Boston trading hanley for Beckett and Lowell and winning 2 WS in 4 seasons.
guys, after seeing trevor hoffman stats, he wasnt that bad, only 4 BS. I know he is old but he is still a god reliever. would he accept a set-up role?
don’t want him.. have you seen him in a big spot??
Umm, no.
how about a new post. this day is brew-tal
My plan:
Sign Sabathia: He is worth every million you throw at him. if it takes 7/150, I would do it.
Rotation: Santana, Sabathia, Maine, Neise, Pelfrey
I would offer FMart for Jenks. Add minor parts if necessary. As I’ve said before, Wilmer Flores is the real deal.
Pen: Jenks, Smith, Muniz, Felciano, Shoeny, Sanchez, Stokes
The issue, as always is that the pen was over worked. Sabathia will eat enough innings to minimize the pens workload. Also, Jerry is more apt to let a guy pitch the 9th than Willie was.
Saltalamacchia:
Texas like Heilman. Texas has too many catchers. This makes too much sense for it to get done.
Nick Swisher:
Castillo for Swisher? Am I dreaming? yes, but with some tinkering, I don’t see why it couldn’t be done. Ramirez could move to OF while Castillo plays 2B.
Reyes
Murphy
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Church
Salt
Swisher
One signing
One prospect trade
one trade of a guy under contract
one bad contract trade
I like it all and don’t know if it can get done. I agree whole-heartedly about Sabathia. Only problem I see is Carlos Muniz being in the pen.
What do people love about this guy? His average fastball or average offspeed pitches? I’d rather see Kunz out there. I think Kunz will get his shot this year.
Texas is asking for “Multiple” prospects and high level guys for each of their catchers, and said they won’t just trade them to trade them. Boston approached them and they asked for Clay Buncholtz as a start. I’d say a guy who has thrown a No-Hitter recently is more highly though of then a 29 year old who’s never started and stunk last year. I doubt that would happen.
I’d love to go after C.C. but that would leave the bullpen with no additions. A bullpen that was horrible last year. You addressed closer and nothing else. Also I don’t want to move F-Mart. he could contribute this season, and his Winter league stats have been outstanding. We still have to see.
Also the Castillo deal is a great thought. They are actually moving Ramirez to SS. It’s already been announced. So then moving one bad contract for another works for the positional needs of each team.
Not as bad as other idea’s I’ve seen.
Reese Havens was said to have lots of promise after being drafted. I’m not sure if the plan was to convert him to catcher or to leave him at 2B. I personally don’t see any way of unloading Castillo’s contract for much more than a career AA player. That being said, why not just stick with Castillo next year and hope that he can either improve his trade value or Reese Havens develops into a potential replacement either halfway through the season or for Spring 2010.
Possibly the most realistic thing I’ve read about Luis Castillo in some time. Kudos.
Are you going to be able to keep food down watching another season of Castillo.
I know I won’t.
lmao. good one mark.. i can’t stand that guy!! ever since the mets got him he’s brought a bad aura to the team, it showed when A. reyes who can’t hit worth a lick was at second the team had a differnt vibe.. as soon as he came back (unfortunately september) the team just went into that funk it out.. not to mention easly got hurt which i think destroyed us as well..
stick to print cerrone