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According to the Chicago Tribune, the Cubs have offered free-agent RHP Ryan Dempster a four-year, $50 million deal.
Dempster’s agent has told reporters there is very little chance his client will sign before Thursday, after which free agents are free to negotiate with other clubs.
…previous reports suggest the Mets would like to re-sign Oliver Perez, but only if he will accept a three-year deal or less…if dempster is being offered a four-year, $50 million deal, which he’s going to turn down, at least for now, and a guy like CC Sabathia will likely get a seven-year offer, while Derek Lowe will likely get at least a four-year offer, i see no way perez will not be offered at least a four-year deal from some one…which means, i see no way he returns to the Mets…
…frankly, i have always had the sense the Mets did not want him back, but would low-ball, because, i mean, why not…but, if he leaves, nobody will lose sleep over it…
Meanwhile, speaking of the starting pitcher’s market, according to the Los Angeles Times:
“The Angels plan to make a serious run at Sabathia, who could command a deal in the six-year, $120-million range, and they could bid on right-hander A.J. Burnett, who might receive a deal in the five-year, $75-million range.”
…so, if the Angels want sabathia and burnett, i.e., one or two front-line starting pitchers, just like the Yankees, it probably means the Mets will ultimately end up competing with either the Yankees or Angels for lowe…in other words, unlike the closer’s market, it’s good to be a free-agent starting pitcher today…
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yep….
All the more reason why Jim Bowden’s trade for a guy like Scott Olsen is pure genius.
THAT’s the kind of move Omar needs to make.. buying low on a young talented lefthander… along with a power hitting OF..
OR…
Overpaying for vets because the market is so skewed.
That’s how to fix the mets.. smart trades… not more bad contracts.
agreed…the right/smart trades not the popular ones. Omar has his work cut out for him thats for sure. Just hope we are able to get something done…..
can you imagine turning down 40
million dollars?
go for lowe and resign perez and pedro. if you do you have
1. santana
2.lowe
3.maine
4.pelfrey
5.perez
and if you resign pedro you can put him as a long relif man and as a spot starter if needed
4 years for Lowe? At age 37 already? Yuck. He is decent, but not worth that (especially as a type A, and large dollars).
If he was a B, and signing a Castillo level 4 year contract, then it’s a different story!
I’m sick of all this Oliver Perez bashing. As bad as he could be, he could be that much better, and as much as the Mets need consitency, they need youth just as much. I would gladly give Oliver Perez a four year deal or five if I had to. He’s young, extremely talented, and has showed he can perform in big situations. I think consistency will come with age. It’s not like he’s 30 and alreayd hit his peak either.
He’s less consistent than the market. I wouldn’t want a broker with his track record
0.35 ERA against the phils in 26 innings in 2008.
nuff said
we are not only playing the phills ewm….
We play them twenty something times a year and the division goes through them.
but we beat them during the regular season ewm and they still went on to win the ws….i understand your point that we must play well against the phillies as they are our biggest competition in the division but we must also perform better against the other team in the league….
While true, the worry with Ollie is that when he give someone at least 4 years and 50 million dollars you expect consistent quality performance. But, Ollie is the perfect antithesis to consistency…so it could be very nerve-wracking to give the man that much long-term commitment when we dont even know how he’d pitch this coming april.
Do you know that Santana won’t damage his arm the next several years? do you know if anyone will be consistent with the big $$? Do you know that AJs injuries are behind him? You don’t know anything about the future so you don’t now what Oliie will or will not do. But you love to bad mouth him don’t you despite the fact he was the ony starter the last 2 years who didn’t cave when playing a good team or ina big game.
yea!
Whoa killer! People really really take baseball way too seriously on this site. You still have 5 months till opening day…step back for a few.
While what you said may be true…I can’t really see any false statements in what i said either.
Big games or little games…can you say in a straight face that you know which Ollie will show up when its his day to pitch…I know I can’t. But I feel confident knowing what I’ll get when Johan takes the mound and that alone is worth the risk of 7 years.
The point that Perez pitches very well in big games or against great teams (Phils, Yanks) is true but that’s not why you dish out huge long term contracts. I’m sure the Mets and most fans would want to have Ollie back but the point is he will command a very large contract IMO and for that reason he’s not worth it. The overall numbers aren’t bad at all and his abilities are top notch. But they can’t have those 7 runs in 2 inning starts anymore, the 9 walk outings and the “jeez we’re playing washington, i wonder which Ollie will show today!”
I totally agree with Starz…if Ollie can’t lose the inconsistency, and the tendency to walk too many guys (MOST in the majors in 2008) in his free agent year, why would we think he would be mentally/physically able to work/concentrate enough to lose the inconsistency after signing a huge long-term deal?
I agree, I don’t see the problem with given Ollie a 4 year deal. I mean come one the guy is really young and has been pretty good for us in the playoffs of 06, had a very good year in 07, and a pretty good year this year. He got off to a very bad start this year but seemed to pitch pretty consistent to me the second half of the year.
So the Mets won’t go to four years for Ollie but they will for Castillo? Makes a lot of sense give Lowe who is 37 a 4 year deal but not a 27 year old who like a poster above said is a big game pitcher. I mean come on he pitched on 3 days rest against the Marlins the last game of the year, was pitching great but the offense cant give him some runs to work with. I would like to see the Mets get Lowe and if Ollie walks because he wants insane money then fine but don’t let the guy walk because you don’t want to give him a 4th year that is pretty ridicules.
Ollie had a pretty terrible yeah this year except for like 1.5 months.
Though young in age, Ollie is not young in experience. He has 5 + years of major league experience under his belt and still shows no signs of consistency yet. How about that when he reaches around the 90 pitch mark he starts losing it, game, after game, after game, for the past 2 years. A sure sign that maybe he should be a relief pitcher, except for his walks. Or how he’s been a big contributer to the overwork the bullpen has gotten because he can’t seem to go more than 5+ innings a start. Boras maybe able to sell him for the price he’s looking for but I would hope that at least we realize that he’s not worth that much for what he actually contributes.
Wow….sorry Oliv…..oops, I mean “adamwsynnex”……but Ollie’s always been they typical $1m arm/$0.10 head pitcher….doesn’t take much to get him unraveled
CC or nobody
Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the Angels loaded with starting pitching? Do they really need any more?
you can never have enough pitching… thats something I wish we could have the luxury of.
Its stupid to count on your 5 man rotation all year…aces may win championships, but depth gets you to the playoffs.
They’re letting Garland walk
no lowe!!! he’s 37!!! nooooooooooooo… i’d rather sign ollie who beats the braves and phillies but can’t beat the pirates… than an old guy who gave you the same amount of innings pitched.. get garland who’s young, trade for vasquez or keep ollie..
SUPERMAN
pelfrey
vasquez/ollie
maine
niese/vargas
But they also have Kelvim Escobar coming back. Who could start or relieve.
Lackey and Escobar are going into the last year of thier deals. Weaver, Saunders, and Ervin Santana. Seems like as good a rotation as anyone in the game.
Not sure what the Angels would do, but It would be great if one of thier young starters was made available.
The Mets can’t put together a package for Vasquez, and I want to trade for Joe Saunders…. lol
I think Esobar or Santana are going to the bullpen to replace K-Rod
Santana is their 2nd best starting pitcher.. he’s not going to the pen and Escobar may never pitch again.
Cause Garland is terrible! throw out the wins.. he has an ERA of almost 5 and a WHIP over 1.5
The Angels didn’t need an outfielder last year but got Hunter. Unlike the Mets they know its better to have depth and the ability to fill a hole from strength rather than from desperation. Unlike the Mets they can walk away from a bad deal. Unlike the Mets they can get the big name in July because of depth. Unlike the Mets they can let their closer walk without being ripped off to replace him. They have what the Mets under Minaya can’t figure out. They have a PLAN.
well put.
:(
If the mets hadn’t gotten a big name in February we could have gotten a big name in July too. The only team that pulled off two big trades, and one of them wasn’t really that big, were the D-backs. And if I recall they watched the post-season from the same place we did.
Exactly, We have a #1, we have a couple guys who are 2-4 starters in Pelfrey and Maine….forget CC…but guys Like Burnett and Garland are guys we should consider, younger inning eaters who are also good.
Maine’s prob is too few innings, we need a starter who can eat them while being a very good pitcher and there are a bunch on the market…Lowem Burnet, Garland, and to a lesser extent Ollie
And for the 5th starter bring in a guy or 2 on flyers like Garcia, Prior, Byrd, some guy you can give a short term incentive-laden contract to and let those 2 compete with Niese…remember that way you fill in the 5th starter and a long man in the pen who can spot start.
good point guillermo.. i like burnett too.. but 5 years?? idk man.. that’s too much for me
Why haven’t the Mets gotten in on the Peavy sweepstakes? Fernando Martinez, Aaron Heilman, and Eddie Kunz should be a nice starting point for San Diego. Santana and Peavy at the top of the rotation would be unbelievable. Add to it Pelfrey, Maine, and probably Niese and that’s a playoff rotation. Heilman has talent but needs to go. Kunz is basically a situational righty, not ML closer material. F-Mart is a gem right now, but, and I’ve said this before, he has “Alex Ochoa” and “Alex Escobar” written all over him. He seems like he could be a good hitter, but is also starting to seem like he’s a bit brittle as well. Sign Juan Cruz and Jeremy Affeldt for the bullpen. Stick Booby Parnell in the pen as well. The Mets need pitchers who miss bats!
yes, yes, yes and more yes, wow, great post….I think the Pads still like the Braves and Cubs prospects better…but yeah….
Yeah, that doesn’t sound too shabby to me either – hope Omar reads this blog!
“Why haven’t the Mets gotten in on the Peavy sweepstakes? Fernando Martinez, Aaron Heilman, and Eddie Kunz should be a nice starting point for San Diego.”
hold on… lol!!!!!!!!
wait.. lmfao!!!!,,,
are you kidding yourself!!!!!
i DONT SEE ANYHTING WRONG WITH THAT SCENARIO!!!!!!
well, so i guess you haven’t been paying attention…!!! heilmann is worthless, kunz? (who knows) not highly projected and martinez is not ready.. the braves are offering a starting player, anothe good prospect and their #1 pitcher highly tauted in the minor leagues!!!!!
Eddie Kunz is not good and no other teams are interested in him at all. You have the Mets hyping him up with all of this closer of the future talk and it is all BS.
Heilman is coming off a horrific year
Why would the Padres even look at that?
F-Mart is the only one out of the 3 the Padres would want.
We don’t have good hunting in NYC.
well animal hunting that is…
i think its because we are on his no trade list…at least thats what i heard.
BINGO!
sign K-Rod – A
sign Lowe – A
sign D. Reyes – B
trade Heilman, Evans and Kunz (or another decent pitching prospect) for Dye
get rid of: Perez – A, Castillo and Schoeneweis
acquire 1-2 arms for the bullpen (not big names)
acquire a 5th starter (or give Pedro a shot with plan B ready)
say no to Burnett (always hurt), CC (too expensive)
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Dye
Church
Murphy
Schneider/Fatso
Fatso
Daryle Ward, Eckstein, Counsell (veteran pinch hitter and leader)
Easley
Tatis
Chavez
I know everyone wants Murphy to bat second and so do I but he needs to prove last year wasn’t a fluke b/c in all honesty this time last year noone knew who Danny Murphy was. bat him 7th, and if he is still hitting like last year, by all means drop him down in the order.
Santana
Pelfrey
Lowe
Maine
Pedro/Garland/Marquis/FA/Trade/Vargas/Niese/Parnell
Figueroa/Parnell/Stokes
Stokes/Sanchez/Muniz/Ayala
Feliciano/Eyre
Smith
someone Omar picks up cheap/Sanchez/Ayala
D. Reyes
K-Rod
Eyre has been signed….and why do people continue to say Schow must go but then mention Feliciano in the plans for 09…this guy killed us for 2 years now, he was the worst of all last year and hasnt gotten a big out in the last 2 2nd halves of seasons….Feliciano should be the first to go, over Schow…now Im not saying BOTH dont need an exit, but clearly Feliciano first.
They both can walk out together!!!! SIDE BY SIDE!!!
lol, true!!!
also for a 5th starter, Livan Hernandez or Odalis Perez.
Livan will eat alot of innings and on a 1 yr deal how many teams have a better 5th starter than that.
THATS NOT A BAD IDEA FOR LIVAN, BUT ONLY IF THE METS SIGN LOWE.
SANTANA
PELFREY
LOWE
MAINE
HERNANDEZ.
I WOULD TAKE THAT
mets fan 718, the mets will not get livan, believe me, WE don’t want livan and his 7.36 ERA here in new york.. i rather have heilmann start than him..
Livan isn’t as bad as his numbers, close, but not as bad. He was hurt a lot by the parks he was playing in and the defense behind him. He’d be a decent 5th starter.
I’ll take Hernandez or Garland as a 5th starter. Whichever is available for the more reasonable price.
20 bucks says ollie suddenly becomes lights out wherever he goes
I have the same feeling.
if you mean he’ll be lights out and stay that way (i.e.: become the consistently dominant pitcher we were all hoping for), I’ll take that bet. If he can’t do it here, with 3,000,000 fans who care, in a pitcher’s park, with a very good defense behind him, in a contract year…
4 years is to much for Lowe even though I think he’s being underrated. But I really really hope there is truth to the Vazquez and Castillo swap. Even if we have to throw in some mid/low tier prospects. I don’t think people understand how good he’ll be if you put him in a normal/pitchers park and put a half way decent defense behind him, Chicago was horrible defensively for what it’s worth.
agreed..that would be a great deal if omar can get it done..
I was watching some video on k-rod, hes overrated in my eyes and i much perfer fuetues who is just as nasty or even more on the mound then k-rod. I see the mets trading for another pitcher cause i dont feel they going to get a lowe or a.j in my eyes.
1. Jose reyes
2. Hudson
3. Manny
4. Beltran
5. D-wright
6. Delgado
7. Church
8. Trade for a catcher
Rotation
Johan
Pelfrey
Trade for probably white sox vaquez
Maine
Vargas
Closer- fuentes
set up- Juan Cruz
Also, IMO the main reason to let Ollie walk is the draft picks. We can sign someone on the same level or better than him and sign two more type A’s and still keep a first and supplemental pick. If we bring him back and sign two more type A’s we won’t have a pick till the first round.
Plus there’s the fact he’s kind of crazy.
Yea ollie is not worth bringing back. Once that type A was labled on him you cud pretty much forget about him he’s not coming back.
HE’S done here in new york if he doesn’t lower his demands, for reason reason managemnt want him back (based on the fact that he can beat the braves, yankees and phillies i think) but they know if he costs too much they wouldn’t go there.. i’ll take him at 3 years with 4 year TEAM option..
Trade for Vasquez and let Vargas, Vargas, Heilman (if not traded) and Niese compete for the #5 spot. This is not a good year for starters at all. After CC, which we won’t be in the market for, it drops dramatically. I think the same applys in the closer market, either get Krod or move on to lower demanded guys this season.
i’ve said that too.. if we don’t trade heilman let him be the #5 starter.. that way he can only messed up and get boooo’d once a week…
I third the motion for Heilman getting one last chance in NY as trying to be the 5th starter….he was pretty damn good for years before last year, and with all the time the organization has invested in him, why give him away?
Where is FreeAaronHeilmanIII when we need him?!?
add me to the list. I think he should have gotten the spot in 2006 ST (who knows how it would have worked out, but he earned it. Looked eral good inthe winter and ST).
If he can be a valuable part of a trade package for something the team needs, do it. If his value on the market is nil, keep him.
WOrst that happens is you let him prove healthy in ST and trade him then. best case, he either rebounds in the pen, or absolute best case, snags a rotation spot.
IMO, he has the potential to have just as good a year as Garland, for a whole lot cheaper.
“If he can be a valuable part of a trade package for something the team needs, do it. If his value on the market is nil, keep him.”
Absolutely 100% right in my opinion…..
Ok, First off i can understand why people are on Ollies tail. But i mean come on, he is not as bad as you people are makin out to be. He had 20 starts in 08 where he gave 3 runs or fewer. He had a 4.22 ERA which is not that bad and i believe is better than average. I know he is inconsistent and you dont know which ollie is coming to the mound on any given day. But one thing is certain. He is gonna beat the Phils and Braves. look at his ERA against the East from 08.
Phils 0.35
Braves 3.72
MArlins 2.32
I would take Ollie over Lowe anyday of the week!!!!
You would also lose games often.
I dont know about that. He had 34 starts in 08 and only lost 7. Either he gets bailed out at the end or he keeps the mets in games so they can win. And we all know, the mets did not come from behind very often this year.
He was also like 18th in the league in run support, out of 61 guys with 120 or more innings.
the same with lowe.. and he’s way older..
You’d lose games more often with Lower? Have you looked at Lowe’s peripheals? He is a much better pitcher than Ollie pretty much across the board.
He walked the most batters in the majors…the team was 0–6 in his starts against Hou, Pitt, Sea, SD and SF.
And I personally think he is unlikely to become more consistent AFTER singing the big deal….
I see people with their selective Ollie stats, so here’s mine.
Oliver Perez’ ERA against the Braves AND Nats combined in ‘08= 5.91.
You know, the teams in the NL East that make up about one quarter of the Mets’ schedule. 5.91!
Nobody saying ollie isn’t a solid picther but hes not worth 15 mil a year and two draft picks. Look Vargas is doing well in the AFL and is going to take ollie spot in the roation if he has a solid srping traning i know that for a fact. Alot of people forgot about Vargas cause of injury but take a look at some of his video he has nasty stuff and doesnt cost anything.
If hes not worth 15 mill a year how much do you expect to get lowe for? You can get Ollie for about 12 mill per season. Your giving up 10 mill per season for Lowe. Ollie IMO is a better investment
His ERA was2.49 in his final 24 starts!!! Other than CC, Burnett, who else is a 100% sure fire signing? HE is next in line!!
In 34 Ollie perez starts in 08. The Mets were 19-15. Whats wrong with that???
His ERA was 4.61 in his last 12 starts. He basically had one really good month way of our line with the rest of his season which skewed his season stats.
Re: Peavy, he doesn’t want to come to ny. his agent said if he did approve it he would need to be compensated. so upping his salary to 18-20 mil per year and sending 3 or 4 prospects isn’t that appealing. might as well sign CC.
5 years for burnett?
dumbest move in the history of the universe.
Agreed, the guy is just way too injury prone. And I doubt it’s going to get any better as he gets older. Especially considering he’d be asked to do more, even if it’s only slightly, in the NL. I do not like the idea of investing so much money in him and then having to cover my eyes every time he swings at a pitch or is asked to run the bases.
Where not getting lowe or any starter on the free agent market. I believe Omar is going to pull of a trade for a solid number 2 or 3 starter that could pitch 200 plus inning. But to answer your question ill take lowe on a 3 yr deal before i give ollie 4-5 yrs. Your agrument is basicly on age alone, lowe would pitch more inning’s have a better era and keep the ball on the ground and get us double plays.
guys, lowe was 8-10 at one point last season, last year he was 11-14!!!!!! ollie won 15 games in 2007, the thing is ollie is crazy and wild, but when he’s on he’s one of the nastiest there is.. lowe got helped by a weak schedule when he beat the pirates twice arizona and the padres!!!! ppl, he’s old and will cost much..
Thanks alex i totally agree. To go further with that schedule idea, Lowe pitches in the NL West. Not the best divivision when it comes to offense and lineups. IE the giants and the pre manny dodgers.
He pitched FOR, not against, the Dodgers, and pitching for them he lost 4 games which were 2-1 final scores, and 2 games which were 1-0 final scores.
I KNOW!!!!, i was just stating that the NL West’s offense is that great!!!!! And that it a mediocre division anyway!!!
Are you really judging by wins and losses? You know at one point Santana was like 7-7 right? I guess that means Ollie> Santana. Do you realize the Dodgers were like 4th or 5th from the bottom in runs in the NL last year? Do you understand the concept of run support? But if you want to talk about wins and losses do you know what Ollie’s record was against sub .500 teams?
You mean the same Ollie that had a 6.89 ERA against the NL West this season. Considering how “weak” the West is…..
Dere lowe had a 3.24 era Ollie had a 4.22 era. Derek lowe played on a bad offensive team for most of the season before manny came. Ollie played on a solid team wit 3 players who had over 100 rib’s. Isn’t really fair to talk about win just imagine if ollie played for the dodger last yr.
Dere lowe had a 3.24 era Ollie had a 4.22 era. Derek lowe played on a bad offensive team for most of the season before manny came. Ollie played on a solid team wit 3 players who had over 100 rib’s. Isn’t really fair to talk about win just imagine if ollie played for the dodger last yr.
Whats that got to do with him pitching against sup par teams in the NL West?? Were not talking about the offense for the dodgers, where talkin about the offense for the dodgers opposition.
Besides you wanna talk about bad teams. How did Ollie pitch in 04 with the Pirates?
As I said above, The Mets were 0–6 in Ollie’s starts against Hou, Pitt, Sea, SD and SF.
We were 2-1 in his starts against the Nats, and he got bombed twice and gave up 15 runs in 15 IP against them.
Sure, he is good against the Phils and Yanks, but these numbers all just show that his inconsistency is unlikely to end anytime soon….this, combined with leading the league in walks, does not seem to be the kind of guy you give 4 years and many tens of millions to, in my opinion.
But I do like him.
I like him too, but not for the money he wants, and not when letting him walk will allow us to sign 3 type A players without losing out big on draft picks.
Agree agout Ollie, he is a fine pitcher but not worth elite money or years. I would be willing even to go 3 years 39 million but that’s it.
Right, so you are going to critique Lowe for pitching in the NL West and how that brought his ERA down. Ollie’s ERA against the NL West was 6.89.
When a player like ollie has a great era against teams in his own divison accept for 1 and thats the worst team in the divsion and have a 4.22 era for the season, that means your losing alot to bad team like the gaints, dodger before manny, and team like pirates also.
I can remember during several of Perez starts making a mental note to myself for discussions like this that the Mets would be better off without Perez.. Walks kill and Perez is a walk machine. I really hope he signs somewhere else.
What about those Starts where he went 7 IP 5H had 8 k’s and 1ER??? did those starts make you say ok, we should sign him. Considering hed he a few of those type of starts?
Sorry, must have missed those two starts. Did see all those 5 inning starts though. They were tough to miss since thats about as far as he went in most of them.
Perez walked 105 batters in 194 innings, and had a WHIP of 1.402.
Lowe walked 45 batters in 211 innings, and had a WHIP of 1.133.
Both pitchers will throw some stinkers, but Lowe doesn’t stay in funks long because he doesn’t walk people, unlike Perez. After giving up 13 hits and 8 runs in 3 1/3 IP last Aug 6th, in his final 10 starts Lowe gave up 3 runs only once, and 2 runs only once, and pitched 2 games against division title rival AZ in which he gave up 0 runs.
NYMETSFAN718
OK any pitching could have a couple of solid starts but doesnt make them worth what ollie feels he is. You cant spend big money on a pitcher who has great stuff but mentally take’s days off or cant find his mehanics on a day where we need a win.
I AGREE!! but then again, take this scenario.. GAME 7.. NLCS.. against the phillies.. who you rathe have??? OLLIE.. or derek lowe..
Honestly, I think I would still take Lowe right now. In 3 years maybe not. Yes Ollie has a history of doing well against the Phillies but he also has a history of being inconsistant.
What if that team was the Dodger, Rockies, Cubs……?
That scenario is more likely to come to fruition if we have Derek Lowe and NOT Oliver Perez during the regular season.
I realize that this is somewhat arbitrary, but below are both Perez’ and Lowe’s numbers from their last 10 starts, when their respective teams were fighting for playoff spots down the stretch:
Perez 2W, 0L, 58IP, 53H, 4.97ERA, 35BB, 57K.
Lowe 6W, 1L, 64IP, 44H, 1.27ERA, 11BB, 40K.
Which guy do you want pitching for your favorite team down the stretch?
Gravedigger, judging by half the commenters here today, obviously you want Perez because his winning percentage is 1.000%…………………………………………meanwhile Lowe lost a game, what a chokey mcchokerson!
Screw Lowe & Ollie. Sign CC and the rest will fall into place
If we had an infinite payroll I might agree, but more than likely the front office is going to be spending more than 30-35 million, terms of per year, on free agents. Signing CC would keep us from addressing a lot of other holes.
If the Mets really really really wanted to, they could sign CC and address every hole they have. This is NY by the way, and we dont wanna become the yankees. but if they wanted to they could!
With the new stadium coming in next year and a WHOLE LOT MORE Revenue, the Mets can do whatever it takes. WIll they? Probably not
alex242
you have a point but who we have a better chance of getting into the playoffs with to get to a gm 7 vs phils.
IF we had a bullpen we wouldn’t even had this discussion and everybody knows it.. as bad as our bullpen was, a drag down horrible manager for 2 months, no left fielder, no right fielder for 3 months or so, no closer for the last 2 months we still had a chance to make the playoffs, guys i think we overachive in 2008..
not to mention how “UNCLUTCH” we were ALLL season!!!
Yup I agree, i also feel we can keep testing the lil luck we’ve had. Get solid players incase of injuries and sign manny for the clutch bat we need. We cant count on tatis and even Murphy to contribute like they had this season next yr.
How do we know that Pelfrey wont go back to OLD Pelfrey??
We don’t, just like we don’t know Ollie won’t implode once he gets a big contract.
What about the reports that Lowe doesn’t like NY? His preference to stay on the West Coast or go to the Red Sox if he comes back east?
No i think i read that he wants to play in the East coast
Then he won’t sign here? Obviously then they’d have to go to plan B.
For what it’s worth according to a writers, via mlbtraderumors, us getting Vazquez is pretty much a pipe dream. Especially if we were asking them to take back Castillo’s contract. Which makes me sad.
Fact of the matter is, no team in MLB would really want to sign this guy. Omar put us in a really bad spot with this contract. The fact that we must live with it for the next 3 years makes me want to cry.
I’m sure there are teams that would take him, we’d just have to take back an even more horrible contract, if one exists.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one. Off the top of your head, who would you rather have Castillo than? He is horrible. He has zero value now that he can’t run and has diminished range.
Andruw Jones?
I disagree. At least Andruw Jones can hit it out of the infield on a fly. Castillo is one of the worst players in Major League Baseball (that wasn’t once a product of HGH).
And Andruw Jones has one more year left on his contract. Castillo is an albatross that we will never rid ourselves of until he is bought out.
I’m not saying he’s a bad guy, but he is just finished. Needs to retire or sign for the league minimum on a team that has a slugging 2B with a frying pan for a glove.
The Dodgers would easily do the Castillo for Jones trade. Think about how much money that would free up for them this offseason for Manny. Castillo would have a spot to play there, Jones does not.
“How do we know that Pelfrey wont go back to OLD Pelfrey??”
well, we don’t know that, based on how good he was las t year except down the stretc when he obviously was tired i doubt he’ll go back to be the OLD pelfrey.. and gina. it will take a dumb gm to take castillo let alone his contract, and i think that we are getting vasquez, omar loves him, what i ‘m afraid of is how much he loves him? would he give up murphy for him? that’s what i am afraid of..
Unless they’re willing to let Murphy play second, which for some reason they seem to be against even though every other option we currently have is flat out terrible, then we might as well sell high on him. But I doubt he has as much value to other teams as he has to us.
Gina, you think Vazquez his selling High for Murphy?
Yes, because I don’t think Murphy has nearly as much value from another team’s perspective as most fans seem to think.
I am sorry, I have to dissagree with you, If we give up Murphy for Vazquez we would be giving up wayyyy too much IMO!. Murphy is very valuable to this team even as a platoon LF.
If we were to trade Murphy (which i hope we dont), i think that we can get a whole lot more for him!!
A whole lot more? Like who? I love Murphy but you have to look at it objectively from another teams perspective the guy has a whole 156 major league at bats, he came out of no where and so has a lot of question marks surrounding him, and as of right now no defensive position. What team is going to give up a lot of value for that? And how is a platoon left fielder more valuable than a guy like Vasquez who would likely be a 2 or 3 on our team?
Vazquez a 2 or 3?? Are u serious??? The guy went 12-16 and had an ERA of 4.67. And folded down the stretch in big games for the white sox, he is not ahead of pelfrey or maine. I am not sold on him sorry
I don’t understand why you keep looking at wins and losses? But anyway he had a 4.67 ERA in the AL, in a notorious hitters park and with one of the worst defensive teams in the majors playing behind him. That ERA would drop significantly on our team. He had an 8.64 K/9, only a 2.64 BB/9. He is a middle of the rotation starter at worst.
I hope your right Gina. But i think, If you give Murphy 400 ABs, he can hit .300+ and have an OBP of close to .400. And he is still teraing up the AFL. So i mean the sample size is big enough for me.
The AFL isn’t exactly a top quality league. Have you ever looked at his numbers in context in the AFL? Everyone is tearing up the AFL. There are 15 guys with OPS’s over 1.000 in the AFL right now. There probably haven’t been 15 different guys the last 3 years finish with OPS’s over 1.000 in the majors.
Gina I completely agree. 200+ inning pitchers with decent stats that are under a reasonable contract are worth much more than a guy who did very well in his first 200 AB’s and does not have a postion in the NL. What is the top for Murphy?
.300 hitter, .380 OBP, 20 HR, 80 RBI? Those are nice and he is cheap. However, where does he play? Are those numbers enough for a 1B? a LF in the NL?
Unless we think he can replace Delgado’s production in 2010 or he can play 2B then trade him for Vasquez.
There’s alot of work to do. Get manny and fuentes a starter and change the bench around and then roll the dice in 09 pretty much.
I still think the Mets are in a good situation for starting pitching. If we don’t end up with CC, then it’ll be Burnett or Sheets.
sheets i’d love but he gets injure tooooooo much!!! murphy will be the 2009 new york second basement.. quote me on that!!
That’s a relief. I, for one, don’t have basemenT flooding problems. However, many of my neighbors do. :-)
lol, my fault i just realize i wrote that like that!!!! good catch!!
Murphy has no chance at being a second at any point of his career. you cant throw a guy who doesnt have a the body type or skillz set to become a 2nd basemen because u want his bat in the lineup. thats not helping the mets.
Worked for Jeff Kent
The body type? And what type is that? He has been playing second in the fall league pretty good. He is an athletic smart player. He might not have the range of a great fielding second baseman but he can be a decent fielding second baseman.
Hanley Ramirez does not have the body type for SS and he has great range and is a solid fielder … he makes more mental errors then anything something which Murphy would not make.
Although both are very injury prone, I would take Burnett.
I’d have to look up the numbers to be sure but Burnett supposedly turned down what would have been a 3 year 48 million extension from the Blue Jays. I like Burnett but with his injury history and coming off the year he had would you want to offer him much more than that? From what I understand Burnett is looking for an expects to get 5 years offers.
Given this economy any team that gives Burnett a 5 year deal is nuts. Baseball and professional sports are going to feel this credit crunch too so I hope the Mets don’t go overboard on the spending, because teams that do will end up regretting it.
LOL!
Do you get commissions for coming on here and saying the EXACT same stuff about the economy a zillion times? If so, can I get in on it??
Burnett is hurt every other year, that is why giving him a huge contract would be silly.
I haven’t seen, or at least don’t remember, Hubie’s other posts about the economy but I don’t think what he’s saying is completely unfounded. Especially when you consider a team trying to get a 5 year contract to a guy like Burnett insured.
Really Gina? You have been on here every day I have. You have not seen the 1001 post about the economy and how the end of the world is near?
I skim over a lot of posts so I may have missed it but I honestly don’t remember.
Too bad, because the highlight of it all was one day when TheReal said Hubie wasn’t around because he was “out picking up pieces of sky.”
Definitely one of my favorite lines on here!
kingman, do you and thereal get paid to respond to every post on here. Get a life!
That was my point on Burnett. You are going to give a 5 year deal to a guy with a history of arm problems when you are facing a significant retraction in your revenue base.
While we are on the topic, word is the Yanks cannot complete the sale of their luxury boxes and sales of their highest priced tickets have stopped.
kingman and the real: the funny thing is you two are too dumb to realize how bad the economy is and how many people are being affected by it. The consumer has stopped spending and professional sports will be affected.
You guys crack me up on how stupid you are. I always knew from going to the games the Met fan base had its share of meatheads, and both of you are right up there.
I wish I had time to respond to every post, or even to comment on a majority of threads, which I do not….but I will always MAKE time to comment when you come on here with your economic wizardry.
Yes, are you jealous?
As for Burnett I would not give him 5 years because it is an injury risk and would tie up money that could be spent else where or the fact that when he is injured we would have another Wagner situation. Not because of the economy.
As for the Yankee’s, I am sure it has nothing to do with them not winning. They bring in CC then those tickets will get sold.
Resorting to name calling, thus his arguement has ended. He has nothing more intelligent to say. Consider the debate won. Thanks for your help in the win, I will send you a check since you so desperately need it.
I cannot believe I am responding to you again, PHD Hubie, but of course we all realize that the economy is bad, the only points I have made are that:
A) Sports usually does well during economic downturns and suffers less than society as a whole.
B) The Mets, being located in an area of huge population and huge wealth, and owning their own TV network, will be far better equipped to deal with an economic downturn than almost any other club in the majors.
I will ask you again Hubie, produce one post you have made that is not about the economy.
Thank you TRS86, I do need the check as I have been out of work for 2 years, and of course it will be spent entirely on sports….
thereal: since you appear to have lots of free time, I’ll leave it up to you to find my non economy related posts from the last few weeks.
I repeat again though, if you don’t like what I post don’t respond to it.
I do agree the Mets are in a good postion for 2009 and proably for a few years after. SNY advertising revenue will certainly be affected though. I saw yesterday that FedEx is contemplating not advertising during the Super Bowl, so certainly advertising budgets will be affected.
thereal: you can keep you money, I don’t need it. With your teacher’s salary and a $3 subway fare looming, you are going to need it.
Nah, I am good. Again, Hubie answer the challenge. Produce 1 post non-economy related. Until then you can’t win this arguement.
As for not posting if I don’t like it? LOL it’s a blog. A sports blog to be exact. The same would apply to you repsonding to my post responding to yours. See where that gets you? A cycle just like the economy.
Oh and by the way, I drive to work and gas prices have been cut in half.
Oops, I thought that money was for me…back to the bread line for me….
Hey, the Nets announced today that they will provide tickets for the unemployed who apply for jobs! I am OUT of here!
Nah, I can give you some money too Kingman. Maybe we can all meet on the subway. Hubie will be the one holding the sign “THE END IS NYE< REPENT NOW”
FYI: I am the one with season tickets.
Castillo is out version of juan pierre, a bench player with a huge contract.
Except Pierre is still a good defender at least.
And is fast.
And castillos contract, in the scope of MLB, isn’t really “huge” 6 mill a years is, sadly, relative chump change! The problem is the 3 years.
Still, eating it all isn’t going to cripple the team. The payed ALou more than that to do nothing last year. And duque probably about the same.
I do like the Andruw for Luis idea. That’s rolling the dice, and if it bombs, he is gone by 2010. Same $ cost, but less time commitment. IOW, get the pain over with quickly.
Pierre is actually a terrible fielder and can’t get on base.
To be honest castillo basicly miss the whole season, maybe thats a good thing for his knees in 09. If delgado, tatis could have comeback yr why not castillo. U have to be optimistic because he’s probably coming back as a met in 09.
He is probably our starting 2B in ‘09. The only way that is remotely acceptable is if he leads off and Reyes gets slid into an RBI spot.
That is my suggestion if Brian “Calls a great game” Schneider is still our catcher and 8 hitter.
I really really really don’t understand how the front office can justify him being our starting 2nd basemen over Murphy at the beginning of 09. I doubt Murphy will be much worse defensively and he’d obviously be a huge offensive upgrade. I can understand people saying Murphy isn’t a viable option because of his defense, but not when the only other viable option we have is well well below average defensively himself.
Depends on if we can get his value up to dump him. Murphy would be much more valueable on the bench than Castillo would.
I honestly expect a rebound year from Castillo here or else where this season. You don’t go from a .300 .370OBP guy to what Castillo had last season in 1 year.
He’d also be more valuable on the field than Castilo would. And IMO, unless they plan on getting Murphy a significant number of bats this season and playing time in the field leaving him on the bench is a waste. He should be in the minors continuing to develop.
I would expect Murphy to get 300+ AB’s in the utility role as he could play OF and IF. Think about the ability to give Church and Delgado days off as well as who ever our LF is. You could also see a platoon with Castillo. So 1 day he is platooning with Castillo the next day he is in LF. Kind of like Delawhatever with the Cubs this seaosn.
Mets would have a new catcher next season i believe. I hope its molina for the short term until our catching prospect i cant remeber his name but until hes ready.
This wordpress format is really frustrating!
I’ve written two really good responses and they disappear!
Then I try to re-post and I’m told it’s duplicate content!
Grrr…..
Change the words around
Like just about everyone else here, I would run this team so differently than it is currently.
Jermaine Dye would be a terrific player to get.
If the Mets are going to spend, spend money on proven talent: HITTERS. Pitchers are just too inconsistent.
The money being tossed around for “below average” and “injury-risk” pitchers is INSANE. Somewhere, Tom Seaver must be ripping his hair out — remember Grant didn’t want to pay him $300,000/year!
We took our lumps in the 1974-1983 years, but once the kid pitchers showed up, things became very different. By kids I mean: Ron Darling, Walt Terrell, Doc, Aguilera, Sid Fernandez, Orosco, etc.
Give the ball to the kids. Pelfrey, Kunz, Muniz, Parnell, Niese. It MIGHT be ugly for a while, but mgmt won’t care. Chiti Field will be sold out for a few years — regardless of the product playing on the field.
I feel if they let the kids develop, and we will have an unstoppable show for years to come.
By the way, I used to think Ollie Perez was as inconsistent as Sid Fernandez.
Then I looked up Sid’s stats. Sorry, Sid, you were GREAT compared to Ollie Perez!
The problem is most of those kids, and one of them Muniz isn’t really a kid but that’s another issue, won’t just be ugly for a while and then turn things around. Pelfrey and Niese are the only ones who’ll be better than middle relievers.
Thanks for the tip.
jerry, i think you are right, as i said before, most of the screaming mets fans have gotten spoiled since 2006!! we got this we need to win mentality and wanna get rid of young players for “below average” veterans, didn’t we do that in 2001?? how that turned out to be?? most of us seem to forgot how much pain we’ve endure from 92-97 and from 2001-2004!! get a grip guys, we have a young core who will be good for years, let’s keep it that way!!
if they are going to spend money, spend it on hitters…
Far more reliable than paying up for pitching.
Buying the reliable pitcher today (Santana, CC, etc) is way too expensive.
So is buying an old reliable Manny.
I agree, but we don’t have a choice. We need to revamp the pen and the quickest fix this offseason is pay for it. I just prefer to see three year deals with a bit more per year, than a 4 or a 5 year deal. Just look at what we got from pedro and now wags in their fourth years.
The alternative is trading away some of the youth like Murphy or Niese.
YIPPIE, YIPPIE. WOOOOOOOOOOO!
Welcome to the darkside Hubie. I think you should print this in post it in your office.
Ha funny, I’ve actually made numerous posts the last few weeks mainly countering people who like Adam Dunn and giving thoughts on the pen. I think bringing him in would be a mistake and I’d prefer the Mets go Fuentes for 3 than K-Rod for 4 or 5 at 15 per.
Well at least those are baseball related. Funny thing is we disagree on most of those as well.
I don’t mind Dunn to play LF and 1B when Delgado leaves as suming his price is not astronomical.
I think Fuentes is an average closer looking for elite money. Fuentes for 3 years 33 million is the same old Mets mistake. Why go 3 years or more on a guy already in his mid30’s? Krod will only cost 3-5 million more a season and even if you go 5 years he will still be younger than Fuentes is right now.
weird Hubie…I’d've thought Dunn would be right up your alley…currently undervalued for a pretty decent skill set. (obv I missed those posts as well)
Look at video on K-rod and Fuentes, ill promise you that you would want fuentes as the closer next season. About adam dunn he’ll never play in new york at left or first because murphy unless theres a tarde is our future first basemen, and manny is going to be our left fielder next yr so….no adam dunn buddy.
Unless we plan on filling other positions with big-big time bats long-term, or Murphy suddenly becomes an insane defensive 1rst basemen, it wouldn’t make any sense to put him at first base long-term.
We have delgado at first now , so ill wont mind murphy at first next yr cause he’s probably better wit the glove.
It’s not a matter of being better than Delgado, it’s where he is relative to 1rst basemen around the league. He’d have to be just awesome defensively to make him for his light hitting for the position.
I wouldn’t mind seeing a year of Dunn in left, and having him as a possible replacement for Delgado should, say, a favorable trade come our way mid year (and Murph then potentially replacing Dunn in left). I’d take him for 3 years (if the price is right)