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In a report for the Daily News, Adam Rubin takes a closer look at Aaron Heilman, whose agent says the pitcher does not want to be traded, he wants to be a starting pitcher.
…well, my sense is that both may eventually come true…
Rubin writes, “There’s an organizational split about Heilman - with chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon wanting him to remain and other key front-office personnel favoring a trade,” according to a source with knowledge of the team’s internal discussions.
The Rockies, Cardinals, Cubs, D’Backs, A’s, Rays and Rangers have all shown interest in Heilman, according to various reports.
…as i wrote the other day, from what i can gather, the Mets are working to trade for a relief pitcher who has experience as a closer…in addition to signing one of Francisco Rodriguez, Brian Fuentes or Kerry Wood…
…at the same time, i continue to get the sense heilman will eventually be traded…
…at the same time, the Rockies continue to be mentioned as having interest in heilman…
…so, as i suggested the other day, i’m starting to think the Mets could eventually work out a trade with heilman, and a prospect, in exchange for Huston Street, i.e., a relief pitcher with a experience as a closer…or so i hope…
As Rubin points out, Heilman is 5–13 with a 5.93 ERA in 25 starts between 2003 and 2005.
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i’d let him be our fifth starter, that’ll give us more flexibility to sign a great ptcher, a great closer and a great bat!!!! plus, even if he messes up we will have neise to back up.. if trade him, trade him to an american league team, i’d hate to see him do good in the nl and stick it to us..
I agree with you Alex. I they sign a good #2 starter then Heilman can be a pretty good #5 starter. The Mets will never do it though. They are too stubborn. Even though at least 6 teams see him as a starter … the Mets don’t. Now they’ll trade him for a bad deal after they destroyed his value.
If they weren’t going to start him they should have traded him at least 2 years ago.
heilman STINKS….as a reliever…and even MORE so as a starter. a two pitch schlub. he shoulda been unloaded 5 years ago! Matt, just my opinion….dont ban me bro
“Don’t tase me bro”
Nostradamus, take it from Metsrodamus, you are wrong. Heilman’s tenure as a starting pitcher was when he was pitching from “over the top.” Admittedly, he had little success as a pitcher with that wind-up. So, Rick Peterson, in one of his moments of genius, got Heilman to drop his elbow back to where he had it in college, which created more movement on his fastball and his performance improved dramatically. That spring Heilman pitched his butt off and should have been given the 5th starter’s job over Bannister (who also pitched very well that spring, but not as well as Heilman).
So, throw Heilman’s previous starting pitcher stats out the window. They mean nothing.
As for last year, Heilman was hurt with a bum left knee that affected his control and his change-up.
I say give this guy a shot as no. 5. He throws 95-96 mph with movement. He has an excellent change-up and a decent slider. That’s more of a repertoire than Pelfrey has.
Sign KRod, Fuentez and Cruz (and maybe Lowe if he decides to get real and not go for Zito money, which he’ll never get) and we’re on our way.
Spot on, The Slider.
I’m not sure that’s entirely accurate. Yes, the majority of his starts were with his over the top delivery. But, he did pitch a few of the last starts with his natural delivery. He still wasn’t very good.
No, no, and no. You are wrong. He didn’t pitch any of his regular season starts with the elbow drop wind-up. I’m certain of that.
This is from metstoday.com, talking about his performance AS A STARTER after returning to his natural delivery:
He was ineffective as a starter in the past.
Yes — BEFORE he returned to his more natural, low-three-quarter delivery. After Guy Conti convinced Rick Peterson to tell Willie Randolph to talk to Heilman about going back to his old ways, Heilman pitched pretty well as a starter. Here are his stats as a starter in 2005, after he ditched the Mets’ force-fed overhand motion:
GS IP K BB WHIP ERA W-L CG
7 42 34 12 1.19 4.37 2-3 1
Only seven games, a small sample for sure, but the numbers suggest he would be at least a decent back-end guy. Add in the outstanding winter he had after the 2005 season, and the excellent showing during the 2006 spring training audition, and there’s enough to dispel the myth that Heilman “failed before as a starter”.
Excellent research casey!!! So, I was partly wrong.
But he did pitch much better after he changed his wind-up. He was still getting used to it again, though. And it wasn’t until the next spring training that he felt comfortable again. Heilman told me that himself. ; )
Thanks, Slider. I have to say that when I dug up that article, I found myself thinking about the possibilities. I mean, we only need a decent 5th starter, right? But, then I started to think about the toxic environment in which Heilman would be making the transition back to starter and it left me actually feeling sorry for him. He should get his chance to start, but maybe Flushing isn’t the right place for that.
The article, if you want to read it (it’s actually a decent read) can be found by googling heilman-will-not-start-for-the-mets.
Yeah, the toxic environment issue is still there. But, in his defense, he’s a smart kid from Notre Dame who’s already severely suffered the wrath of Mets fans AND STILL WANTS TO HERE (as amazing as that sounds), so long as he’s given a chance to start … and he’s cheap and already on the roster.
I know it’s a little risky. But if he’s healthy again, I’d like us to take that chance with the possibility of so much upside. Remember, he was a former first round pick. Plus, I know - I just know - if we trade him, he’ll have a great year. He’s exactly the type of player who Omar looks to get from another team, i.e. a talented player who is coming off a bad year or two, who will come relatively cheap.
What makes you think Heilman would be any more effective as a 5th starter than he was as a relief pitcher? Much as I like Aaron, his skills have deteriorated over the last 2 seasons and I very much doubt Met fans will be very forgiving towards him if he has a bad inning as a starter.
I think the best thing is to part ways and let him try his luck elsewhere. And Colorado is as good a place as any - it worked out quite well for Kaz - and the Mets would only face him at most twice a season. Plus if the Mets end up getting Street in return, that’s a win-win for everybody.
I would not trade him to the AL as they’d eat him alive over there.
Heilman was effective as a relief pitcher … remember? That was the whole reason he was “so important” to the bullpen in the first place. People have short memories.
He should have been given a chance to start long ago … or traded long ago when his value was high. If you think you couldn’t get more than Street 2 years ago, you’re crazy.
Total mishandling of a pitcher by the Mets. No getting around that.
In fairness, he was a very effective relief pitcher back in 2006 - remember that great relief set-up the Mets had? Heilman in the 7th, Bradford in the 8th, Wagner in the 9th - good times, good times.
But ever since he gave up that HR in the NLCS, he’s had some sort of confidence issue. He’s good at times, but very erratic - and it’s gotten progressively worse. He needs a change of scenery I think to get his groove back, and if Colorado wants to try him out as a starter, and give Street back in return, win-win-win for everybody.
Yeah I do remember that … I also remember that Duaner Sanchez in 06 was the 8th inning guy til he got hurt. The pen was not the same after that cab accident. If Sanchez was in that pen in the playoff’s that year it would have been much different.
I don’t think he has a confidence issue … I just think his mentality as a late inning reliever is not the right one. He’s got really good stuff and the mentality to start. The Mets won’t let him. That’s the problem.
Yeah … I’ll take Street for him because at this point that’s all you can do. Still would have loved to trade Heilman 2 years ago and gotten much more for him.
Heilman hasn’t been good for a while. Even in 2006, he wasn’t that good…and, if we are talking about memories…I seem to remember Heilman losing his set-up job to Duaner in early 2006.
The guy is mediocre at best.
Casey … you’re wrong. He was very good in 06. He didn’t lose a set up job … they shared the duty for the first half of the season. Depending on match ups. Duaner then got in the cab accident and Heilman took over the 8th inning full time. He did very well.
Not sure what you were watching.
maybe i’ve got it wrong, then. i will say that he has never a good setup guy. he was decent to good, then his performance trailed off from there. this team will be much better off without him - in any role.
I’ve advocated trading him for the past 3 years, just so you know. My beef is with how the Mets have handled the whole situation from the beginning.
Now they will sell him low because of incompetent decisions.
Well, that would a good beef to have. They have really botched so many personnel decisions over the years. Not related to player value exactly, but look how they bungled Church last year! Horrible.
Yeah … really makes you wonder sometimes, doesn’t it?
why is jeff wilpon even involved in these discussions?
Why is Jeff WIlpon even allowed into the front office? They should create a fake front office somewhere in the basement of Citifield and tell Jeff to go there. They could have coffee and donuts and life-sized cut outs of Fred, Omar and Tony - with bobbleheads nodding in agreement over anything Jeffy says - he will never know the difference
FIRE WILPON!
Oh yeah, I forgot, he’s the owner. (Dagnabit!)
Sign one solid free agent starter and a reliever or two and let Heilman compete with Neise to be the fifth starter. It wouldn’t be the worst thing.
Honestly, I’d rather they try and sign Pedro (for reasonable money) for one year to be their 5th starter. Heilman has too much baggage with the fans to be an effective starter
I agree to let him be the 5th starter. I would rather put him and Niese in the rotation as opposed to going broke with Perez and Lowe. Look to upgrade at 2B and LF and by all means improve the bullpen.
If heliman and Niese do not work out upgrade in the summer-there will be options then. Whjy are we overpaying for mediocre pitchers especially in the case of Perez- who we know is not worth the money.
Heilman is under contract-give him the oportunity and focus on the other areas.
Wow..this indicates that its time to part ways. Its surely for the best for both sides to start fresh without one another.
I think Molina’s HR and choking in every big spot since then was more of an indication that it’s time to split ways.
The guy is absolutely terrible in a big spot. I’m tired of seeing his pouty face after giving up leads in crucial games over and over again.
The time to move on was after the 2006 season. It’s 2 years too late, but better late than never.
I’m sure he will do well in Colorado where his fragile personality will be sheltered from the spotlight of NYC.
I think this is the quintessential case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The guy is an a-s-set period. All players are a-s-sets. Jeff should be talking only about moving him to the 5th starter role. Hear me out for a second……
If Omar, Jeff and company start posturing that Heilman is coming back and will be our 5th starter…then his value is perceived as more than it is now. IT will take more value coming back to us for the METS to consider moving him. Even a 5th starter is deemed as more valuable to a squad than a struggling middle reliever.
Pluses for Heilman is a good change up, a good 95 - 96 mph fastball when he is healthy and a decent slider. He is also just 30 and still has 2 years before free agency (unbelievable but true).
That in my mind makes him the kind of guy the METS should be hunting for their back end of the rotation. Some other teams ?? with potential. Heilman has potential and we have seen him for at least 2 years be a better than average reliever (last year not withstanding).
I vote for pumping him up to be a starter, rather than saying no way, and then flipping him to other teams with his new inflated value and perceived importance to us.
Just my .02
interesting point.
Very good point. This makes complete sense. I never thought of that angle before.
Sign this man up for GM.
see ya, Schoenweis is on deck,,,,Feliciano and Sanchez to follow
Exactly. Get him outta town. He’s been sulking since his move to the bullpen in 2006, and has progressively gotten worse each season. Instead of being a lights out guy, and being a man and a teammate he sulks and stinks.
I’d like to keep Sanchez. He is cheap, has a history of being great at getting out everyone, not just a lefty or a righty. He was in his first season back from a major surgery, and the speed and velocity were therein initially, and then he tired later in the season. I think that full year of health and work can get him back to where he was in 2006 before that stupid cab accident.
Show, Feliciano, Delgado, Castillo….. BYE BYE!
Why in the heck is Jeffy involved in player personnel decisions??
I thought he wasnt part of the “baseball department”
Because he is the owner. Also George Steinbenner was in on a lot of player personnel decisions as well.
so Omar doesnt have Complete discretion in the “baseball department” like we were always led to believe by Jeff and Fred??
When Jeffy got involved in player decisions in the past we always wound up with the wrong decisions. (See Trachsel, Steve and Glavine, Tom Jeffy’s golf and wine buddies)
Not to mention his stellar idea to trade Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.
If my father owned the team and I was its COO I’d want to have a say in the baseball department…for better or for worse, its my team.
then don’t complain when the gm does what you want and the team stinks.
oh you can def complain…you own the team so you can create any scapegoat you want…you pay their checks…
Jeffy should stick to picking colors for the clubhouse bathroom and getting the bills paid on time.
He has ABSOLUTELY NO expertise in evaluating baseball talent and should keep his mouth shut when it comes to the “baseball department”
This was the deal when Omar came and should remain that way.
George and Hanky steinbrenner should not be the model for running the organization. And dont throw their WS titles out there.. They only got good when Stick Michael was in charge and George was suspended by the commissioner.
Fwiw while I agree the Steinbreinners are the opposite of how an organization should be run and Jeff has no background in baseball to make it seem like he should have anything to do with baseball operations I don’t think him being involved is a horrible thing. While most reports I’ve heard about him make it seem like he’s not exactly the sharpest tool in the thread he also seems to want to push more progressive thinking, which I don’t think can hurt any front office too much.
let him design the new patch for the uniform then.
when silver spoon boys get involved in player decisions we are in for a long dark winter.