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In a report for ESPN.com, Jason Grey takes a look back at the final week of the Arizona Fall League, recapping performances by a MLB prospects.
According to Grey, “Daniel Murphy looked like he could handle second base well enough, given his offensive ability. Whether that’s enough for the Mets remains to be seen. He has limitations, but he didn’t embarrass himself.”
Meanwhile, on the season’s final day, Eddie Kunz blew a save by giving up a pinch-hit 
grand slam to the Phillies OF Jeremy Slayden in the eighth inning.
Regarding Kunz, Grey writes:
“Comparing Kunz’s delivery to the one he displayed last season in the AFL, it appears the team has adjusted him to stand taller in his delivery, presumably to help his command, handle lefties better or both. However, it hasn’t been working well here. The raw stuff is still there, including the heavy sink on his ball, but he needs to improve his command to stick in the big leagues.”
In 10 appearances this fall, Kunz is 2–2 with a 10.93 ERA in 14 innings pitched, during which he has walked 10 batters.
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eddie kunz… LOL
Seriously.
Talk about ‘ouch’.
Let the talk of Murphy at 2B restart.
Look, I have no objections to letting him get some time there while we still have Castillo. To rest Castillo. If Castillo still stinks it up then Murphy can play fulltime at 2B if he has shown that ability. He may not be a starter there but he can’t be any worse defensively than Easley.
It makes perfect sense for Murphy to play 2nd base and I don’t know why it’s so difficult for the Mets to admit this.
… because he’s not very good at second base. That’s why.
Yeah … I know … because we’ve all seen him play there to be able to make that judgment.
Please – stop already!
The Mets need to sign Orlando Hudson and jettison Castillo.
All this fooling around with speculation about Murphy at 2B or possibly signing Furcal is crazy.
From what we hear the guy wants to play here (Hudson) and he’s a leader and a decent talent. Why are we even thinking about treating 2B like it’s an unimportant position?
It makes more sense to spend the money on 2 starters, a closer and a left fielder than to spend it on Orlando Hudson. He just ain’t worth the money.
Exactly, I just don’t get why people want to fix mistakes with more mistakes.
Yeah, why throw money at a position that you already threw money at and it didn’t work? You have a guy who can handle the position at relatively no cost and you have 4 gaping holes in the team that needs money thrown at it.
So let Murph play 2nd and fix the rest of the team. He’ll be fine.
That is true if Murphy is capable at 2b over the long haul. I am willing to cross my fingers, but at the same time, your theory of throwing more money at a position you already threw money at could apply to closer as well, and one could argue that Murphy is just as unproven as some of the internal options like Joe Smith we already have. But closer is more important than defense at 2b (with Reyes and Beltran also up the middle), so KRod and Murph makes sense to me.
The difference is we don’t have a closer. We need one. We have a 2nd baseman signed for 3 more years … why pay Hudson another 4-5 to play the position when you can use that money more wisely … and have Murphy play the position, or at least platoon with Castillo if he can’t be moved.
But yeah, K-Rod and Murph makes sense to me too.
Why? Because that guy you have signed for three more years is the only player who, when he takes the field, the team has a losing record?
I’m not an overly superstitious guy, but facts are facts. When Castillo plays, the Mets lose. When Castillo is in the clubhouse the Mets lose. Down the stretch last season, when the Mets were fighting for a playoff berth, the powers that be put their trust in Ramon Martinez over that “guy who is signed for the next three years.” That in an of itself is an admission of the team cancer that is Luis Castillo.
This team will not win anything as long as Luis Castillo is a member. THAT is why would admit your mistake (which it seems the team already has) and FIX it without regard to cash (which we can only hope it will).
I think you missed my whole point, TurboDan.
Eddie Kunz will amount to nothing – mark my words, i’d trade him if at all possible.
Jerry knew he blew, that’s why he wouldn’t use him.
Maybe so … but does this worry anybody?
“it appears the team has adjusted him to stand taller in his delivery, presumably to help his command, handle lefties better or both. ”
Sounds like Aaron Heilman all over again.
Be careful. We were all saying this about Mike Pelfrey when he put up an 8 something ERA in spring training 2008.
Exactly! And guys here wanted him to be our closer at the end of the season. Sheesh.
“he needs to improve his command to stick in the big leagues.”
How about even making it to the big leagues.
I love people on this site who post constantly about having Kunz in the pen or as significant trade bait. I’ve been saying this all along: very few of our minor leaguers are attractive to anyone outside of Metsblog. Parnell may be slightly above Kunz in that regard, but not much, and Evans is that way too.
This farm has very few interesting parts. Far too few for a team of this wealth.
Parnell is WAY more attractive around baseball than Kunz is.
Other than one report of the White Sox scouting him, show me the evidence of this.
Meh, I’d disagree, Parnell is a borderline nonprospect, Kunz is at least still somewhat young.
Parnel throws 96-97 mph with a tight little slider. If he can develop some command of his pitches, he can be very good.
He’s 24 and had no success above A ball. There’s not a lot of reason to think he’s going to suddenly develop more command or more pitches. His best hope is to be an awesome power bullpen arm.
everyones gotta give kunz a chance..HES 22 YEARS OLD..if he is doing thhis at 25 then worry but defenitely not now
Dude…
Dude what??? fine run him out of NY and in 5 years u will be very sorry
I doubt it. There’s no place to “run him out” to because nobody wants him.
Do you think every minor leaguer becomes a major leaguer? What possible evidence do you have to show that Kunz has any promise at all?
WOW…u think that nobody wants him??? u must not be a very bright person
My intelligence has nothing to do with this.
Show me EVIDENCE. Where is someone intrigued with Kunz. Metsblog posters don’t count.
I am sure there are a few because of his former status and a current buy low trade.
I’m sure there are some who would accept him as part of a package, sure, but that’s not the same of a team wanting him. I find it hard to believe that anyone is saying, “you know who we should try to get? Steady Eddie Kunz.”
I could still see a team that wanted him as part of a trade and would demand for him to be thrown in to complete the deal. Such as in a trade for Street. The fact that he is not supposed to give up many HR might tempt the Rockies to take a chance on him.
Where Heilman straight up for Street would never work maybe throwing in Kunz and another low level guy would.
His former status isn’t really that good. Most teams saw him as a meh prospect to begin with who’s only value was that he would be able to turn around quickly and make the bigs as a power bullpen arm. Now that doesn’t even look true.
Kunz sux. He’s a LOOGY at best.
Gina: YES!
So the question becomes, why worry about draft picks? He was our first pick that year and nobody likes him so what does that say about our scouting and our drafting? Davis, Havens, and Holt this year and the only one talked about is Holt and thats not as a starter, as he was drafted, but as a bullpen guy. If our drafting is so bad (and forget about paying over slot cause that has nothing to do with the scouting) why should we care about draft picks?
Because you need them to sustain a franchise, or at least a winning one. It’s not that we shouldn’t care about draft picks it’s that we should be up in arms about the horrible states of our current scouting/drafting/developing strategies. Instead fans buy into the hype and excuses and/or see one decent player, Murphy or Pelfrey, and as-sume everything’s okay.
Just because our drafting is terrible doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care about them, we should improve our draft system!
I think people will talk more about Havens, as he was hurt this year.
But this team is terrible at drafting. And has been for years. Jason Tyner????
Not willing to pay above slot has something to do with it, but scouting and philosophy seems to as well.
and also think back to pelfrey…when he was 22 or 23 making his first couple outings noone wanted him here…now hes 24/25 and hes great..just be patient…it is rediculous how everyone wants to run players out of NY if they start off poorly
Pelfrey was a first round draft pick.
kunz was a first round draft pick too
He was a supplemental round pick.
I wouldn’t say Pelfrey is “GREAT” yet. He had a great 2nd half of the season. He’s not anywhere near “GREAT” yet.
I agree Mark, if anything Pelfrey right now Pelfrey is sort of an example of the problems with our developing of players. We took a great college pitcher, and for some reason made him get rid of what made him a great college pitcher his best college pitch and then yanked him up and down through levels and into the majors way before he was ready. When we drafted him he looked like a player who would eventually be an ace or high #2, now he’s looking more like his upside is a high #3. Which would be okay if it wasn’t for the fact most of his issues came from unnecessary tinkering and trying to rush him.
Pelfrey was a starting prospect who we messed up by messes with his pitches, making him stop throwing his best college pitch, and yanking up and down through the system even though he wasn’t ready. This guy was supposed to be a quick turn around power bullpen arm the situations really aren’t comparable.
Sounds to me thats exactly what they did to him, messed with his mechanics, not to mention rushing him through. If Wagner wasnt injured would Kunz had ever seen the big club last year? He would have been given a chance to see what he can do this year in ST but going to AAA with an eye on him to join the bullpen in 2010. The “suppose to be a quick turn around power bullpen arm” I havent seen from anyone but you Gina, though I’m not saying you didnt see it somewhere. Thing is in college he was a position player they used in the ninth to save games. He wasnt a fulltime pitcher and they knew this when they drafted him. That in itself would mean it would take a while to hone his mechanics and his control. Though he may not make it, I would still give him some time.
Ugh most scouting reports I read at him right after the draft said that he, and most of our other picks outside of Moviel and Vineyard from that draft, were expected to be drafted hoping they would be players like Joe Smith, quick paths to the majors. I can find a couple links, including one from this blog itself but obviously we can’t link in here, that said we should be looking at him to compete for a bullpen job out of spring training in 08.
But my question to you would be what would be the point of them spending a first round pick on a part-time pitcher in college if they thought he was going to take 3-4 years to develop and still only be a bullpen pitcher? If that was their thinking then there’s something wrong with their drafting strategy, because they might as well have taken a starting prospect. Or are you saying they drafted him thinking he would eventually be a starter?
I tried posting this with the links and it keeps getting eaten. I’ll try again later. But I promise I’m not making it up.
You’re not. I remember it too. And I also remember thinking, why are we using our top pick for a guy who might become a relief pitcher.
I think you draft starters and if they don’t make it, then you convert.
This whole relief specialist thing is wreaking havoc on baseball IMHO
agreed. He is 22, only been a pro for a year or 2. And they had him working on a new delivery in the AFL, which is what the league is for. basically results don’t matter, and scouts will look past them at “stuff” and projecting for the future.
If a pitcher is learing a new pitch, they need to throw it till they get it mastered. even if at first it gets hammered, you keep working on it.
Just do it in the minors.
I won’t say that Kunz will never be a solid major league pitcher. I will say that he for sure needs to be in the minors to at least start the year next season. If he gets his stuff and control down and starts dominating, then you can bring him up.
His raw talent (aka the stuff) will certainly be of interest to other teams.
Why are the Mets always screwing around with guys deliveries though?
to make them better…kunz is not good against lefties so they are trying to change that
To make them better? Ask Aaron Heilman how that worked out for him when they changed his delivery in the minors.
well then i dont know…i mean hielman is really not horrible…he had a bad year this year but if u look at hos #s from previous years they are actually pretty good so i dont know
I know … what I’m saying is when they first drafted him they totally changed his arm slot in his delivery. He came to the majors and got hammered relentlessly. It took them a year and a half to accept that the new delivery was a bad idea and then when he went back to his original he pitched really well.
I just don’t trust anything they do with young pitchers in their system.
I don’t trust anything they do with a lot of their prospects. I thinjt he best thing that happened to Murphy was that he wasn’t highly regarded so they weren’t focused on him enough to end up ruin him, or at least his trade value, by moving him up too quickly like they’ve done with a lot of players.
Well at least I’m not the only one. It’s crazy how their farm operates with the budget the Mets have.
Kunz said he was happy with what he did in the AFL. He was trying new things and working on his command. He acknowledged that the numbers don’t show it, but he felt that he had a good Fall. So, let’s hope the WhiteSox Scouts believe that so we can include him in a trade for Dye.
Please people. And “it’s not an elbow thing, it’s just tightness in my forearm,” and “I don’t care about strikeouts, I can get outs by throwing fewer pitches and letting the batters get themselves out,” and “my bat’s not slowing, it’s just a mechanical flaw,” and “I can fix Victor Zambrano in 10 minutes…”
The only thing is we need to give them a chance, phuckthephillies is right, we can’t go what a player does in the arizona league or winter league, for example, jorge “we all know u” sosa is 5-0 with a 1.42 ERA in the domincan league, and anderson “i couldn’t hit for $%^&” hernandez is hittin like 450!! don’t get too wrapped up with what he does cause is only a league for hitters more than for pitchers, relax, he’s only 22.. 22!!!
But what has he done anywhere? I agree that the AFL is no way to judge a player (but boy there sure are a lot of people using Murphy’s play at second there be an argument to give him the starting job at second this year) but read what the scouts say about Kunz. Find one who thinks he’ll be more than a fringe bullpen guy.
but we don’t know for sure whether he’ll be good or not.. do you know how many players develop after playing in afl or in winter leagues? i’m sure he will be good, he’s got the upsized to be a good closer. i mean he was good last year but manuel gave him no confidence.
He was not that good last year. Manuel gave him no confidence, or he gave Manuel no confidence?
Look, Kunz is not the part of any answer here. Could he develop into something useful? Sure. But from the reports I’ve read on the guy, not that many people think he will. Could they be wrong? Absolutely, but even if they are, he needs to not be in a major league uniform this season. That is all I’m saying. He’s not a very promising prospect right now. That could change. I’m not saying run him out of town, I’m not saying trade him for a bag of balls. I’m saying don’t count on him, unless you welcome disappointment.
HE ONLY PITCHED ONCE and it was on a game in which the mets needed him to see what he had against houston and let schoenweis, the result we LOST!! then he brought him in at home full crowd and gave up a bomb, which you would’ve rather see him at? at home where there’s more pressure or in the road?
thanks
What about his years worth of mediocreness in AA does that not mean anything?
gina, he’s 22!!!!
And? He’s a middle relief prospect not a starter, that we used a “first” round pick on. The reason we picked him was because he was supposed to move quickly through the minors and be useful in the major by like, now, not because of his talent or upside. The fact he hasn’t shown anything that says he’ll even be able to do that kind of kills whatever reason we had to draft him.
I thought it was a terrible pick then, because picking middle relievers high is always a terrible drafting strategy and Kunz has yet to do anything to prove it wrong.
Gina: YES!!!!
I know it’s a pipe dream and almost an impossibility to happen, but it’s nice to think about Dye in LF and Murpy at 2nd base next year.
This is from Rotoworld..
The White Sox are open to trading Jermaine Dye, but they want a young starting pitcher and additional players in return, says FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal.
Dye is coming off one of his better seasons, but he will turn 35 this winter and he’s not cheap at $11.5 million for next year. If the White Sox can really get a quality return for him, they should make the trade and seek to get younger in the outfield. However, according to Rosenthal, the Mets, Rays and Phillies have already declined to pay the price the White Sox are looking for.
Doesnt look like well be getting dye..and murphy cant be worse then uggla at 2nd so why not
or, it just means that the price will be coming down.
Uggla was actually pretty good at 2nd this year, but it could have been a total fluke. But regardless our division is a perfect example of average to below average defender with decent bats being put at 2nd and working out, Utley, who’s develop into one of hte best defensive 2nd basemen in the league, Uggla, who was a little above average defensively this year, and Kelly Johnson although he’ll probably be replaced by better prospects sooner than later.
haha did you watch the all star game?
Is Utley really that good at fielding? I mean…ive seen the guy make countless errors in big spots
I didn’t realize one game represented a players entire abilities. And yes Utley is that good at fielding. Most defensive metrics have him as like the 2nd best full time second basemen in the majors. And people look too much into errors, obviously not making errors is important but what’s more important is range. If a guy gets to 100 balls out of 150 that he should have gotten too but makes 0 errors is he better than a guy who gets too 130 of those 150 balls but makes ten errors? The guy with ten errors still saved you 20 more base runners than the guy with 0 errors. Obviously it’s not as simple as that but that’s why errors are a poor way to measure defensive ability.
“In 10 appearances this fall, Kunz is 2–2 with a 10.93 ERA in 14 innings pitched, during which he has walked 10 batters”.
IS THIS AARON HEILMANN’S LIL COUSIN???
That’s just mean.
The funny part is so many of you actually thought this guy- who will never amount to anything in the majors- was going to be a big part of the pen in 2009
Now what?
i don’t think he was gonna be a big part of the team, but i definately thoguht he was gonna be better or not worse than all the garbage we kept trolling in every single night, anything could’ve been better.. and you as well as every other mets fan knew this.
Guys why are we puting so much stock into limited results in the AFL while the Mets are supposedly trying to change his mechanics. Do you really think that a guy that put up average numbers in AA last season is going to put up an 11.00 ERA in the AFL if it was 50 games?
Do you think a guy who put up average numbers in AA is a Major League ready player? You’re supposed to put up great numbers in the minors. If you are an average minor leaguer, chances are you won’t be even that in the majors.
Wow. I believe the guy was pretty GOOD in AA. He actually was the Mets only all star.
Eddie Kunz (22) of Portland, Ore., recorded 27 saves in 30 opportunities for the Binghamton Mets, before being summoned to the big leagues in August. The right-hander made four appearances for the New York Mets and ended his year in Triple-A. Kunz was drafted in the second round in 2007 out of Oregon State University.
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In case you cared:
In AA this year, Kunz was 1-4 with a 2.79 ERA. In 48.1 IP, he gaveup just 39 H for an opponents’ batting average of .222. He walked 25 and struck out 43.
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So lay off the guy. He was progressing pretty well, saving 27 of 30 opportunities in AA ball. Then got flashed up to the Majors and then sent down to AAA. Where he lost confidence in the Bigs by getting light up, then had a few outings in AAA where he wasn’t effective. Now he’s a bust and a bum.
Pay off the dude, He probably won’t be in the bullpen this year. Maybe after the rosters expand again. He will start out in AAA. People are still annoyed over Jesus Flores, a single A catcher who hit 260 in the bigs, yet a guy who went from college to the Majors in a little over a season and struggled a little is a bum.
WOW!
Show me where I said bum. 27/30 is fine, as is his ERA, but his WHIP isn’t all that great, at least, I’d like to see better from a guy in AA before I get excited.
If you read everything I wrote you’ll see I never called him a bum. I suggested that the scouts don’t see him as much of a prospect. He is not terribly desired by other clubs, and my main point is that lots of people in their postings of “this is what the Mets should look like next year” have Kunz as an important part of the mix.
Like I said, I never said he was a bum. But frankly, I don’t see him being an impact arm now, and likely not ever.
As for “laying off” him, I never laid into him.
I wasn’t attacking you personally. I was directing it to all the people who are saying move him. he’s a bum.
Most Minor League pitchers who aren’t SP have no trade value, if at all. Why would they. Most Closers are Failed Starters. Mo was. Hoffman was. Lidge Was. I think most were.
I don’t know if he will be an impact at all, this year or ever. You never know. But that’s the problem with Drafting relief pitchers. That’s all they can be, and that’s why i’m typically against it when i see it. Because if he can’t get out major league hitters as a reliever then he’s useless. If you draft a starter, and he can’t get them out as a starter, at least you can try him in the relief role.
Just my thinking. Let this guy go in AAA. See if he has anything. Maybe another year or 2 of seasoning and he’s on a big league roster.
I agree 100% with most of your post mark, especially the part about drafting relievers hopefully one day our front office will get this through their heads. But the problem with Kunz is not only is he a minor league relief prospect, he’s one with huge command issues and poor k rates for a reliever, and his only really developed pitch is a sinker which is a contact pitch which means he’s going to be a guy who puts a lot of balls in play, something you don’t really want from a reliever. I imagine even with the saves and ERA that stuff puts him near the bottom rung of minor league relievers. Just for a contrast look at a guy like Jose Ceda’s minor league numbers, who baseball prospectus had as a 4 star prospect even though he’s a minor league reliever.
THANK YOU THE REAL!!!
we are soo desperate for something to happen that we have this we wanna win now mentality and are ready to shipped out every young guy for “veterans”. how pedro, alou, el duque, worked out for us? is time for a change of scene, we need to get young players in and let some of them develop
Davey Johnson played a bunch of stonefingers at SS – HoJo, Mitchell, Hubie. Whatever their evils were with the glove they made up for it with their offence (vs. Santana). It would be nice to have a Joe Morgan type, but that isn’t going to happen. How bad can Murphy be at 2B to justify paying good money for this generation’s Doug Flynn. Remember him, he single handedly negated Gary Carter’s value when they were at the Expos. Why not just put him there and get some glove for late innings / close games. You shift from looking for a 2B to looking for an OF, which has gotta be easier. If you have a rock solid 1-7 in the order, a good staff with a bona fide closer and set-up man then you can probably get away with Prince Fielder’s defense at 2B.
I don’t see what the big deal is about Murphy at second base. He should be there no questions asked. Remember how bad of a fielder Utley was when he came up at second? He was horrible, but he had a good bat, now look at him. Hands down the best second baseman in baseball. We have nothing to lose at second base, see what he’s got there, if we’re not satisfied then so be it. There’s no one worse at second then Castillo.
No way Hudson is worth the $10 million per he is asking. That money could and should be more wisely spent on pitching.
yes he is.. 10 millions for 2 years..
He’s not and I doubt he takes a 2 year contract. I doubt he’d take a 3 year contract. Anything more than 2 years 10 million, at most, would be as bad as Castillo’s contract.
Exactly Gina.
And as of right now the contract to land him would be 10 million a year for 4 years.
Hudson is by no means a 40 million dollar player. I wouldn’t even want him there at that.