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On Nov. 18, I wrote, “From what I can 
gather, the Mets are likely to make a trade for a relief pitcher, who has experience as a closer,” in addition to signing either Francisco Rodriguez, Brian Fuentes or Kerry Wood.”
In the post, I later suggested the Mets could be working to acquire Huston Street, in a deal involving Aaron Heilman.
Today, on his blog for the New York Post, Joel Sherman reports the Mets made such an offer in the days after Street was acquired by the Rockies, who then asked for Pedro Feliciano in addition to Heilman, which the Mets ultimately turned down.
…from what i can gather, having talked with people connected to the team, yes, the Mets and Rockies have been talking about a street-for-heilman deal, but i sense the Mets would prefer to trade a mid-level prospect with heilman…i have never heard feliciano’s name mentioned…or, at least to the extent that he will be included in any potential deal…nevertheless, the two sides continue to work on finding a solution…
In the report, Sherman writes, “The more I talk to Met officials the more I sense they want to use Street as the eighth-inning guy and still obtain a closer such as Brian Fuentes or Francisco Rodriguez. The Mets recognize they do not just have a ninth-inning problem, but that their whole late-inning contingent was troublesome.”
…this is why i wrote two weeks ago that they are working to acquire a set-up man with experience as a closer, because i sense they do not want to trust the closer position to just one person, for fear of what happened to them last season…and this is wise…
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Well as long as they are in negotiations and have not just said no thanks then so be it. They can afford to wait a little. I still don’t see why Feliciano is that big of a stumbling block. Something still seems iffy.
Funny thing is according to stories just like this one the Mets had a chance to trade Heilman for Fuentes and turned it down when the Rockies wanted Show. Maybe they will settle on Heilman, Show and some cash?
I suppose it’s possible, being that the Rockies organization aren’t Met fans they can’t possibly feel as sick to their stomachs upon hearing the names Heilman, Schoeneweis and Cash as we do.
Agreed 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think we need P-Fel because he handles very well Fatward and Shutley !
So we should keep a guy just because he does well against 2 players but stinks against the other 200?
But we need to get out those 2 players more times than the other ones .
I’m sure Street could do that just as well if not better that P-Fel. Plus he could get some of the other batters out too.
I would have done that trade in a minute. Maybe Omar is hoping he can leverage Feliciano in another trade.
Me too but we need a LH specialist and Feliciano is one.
We need a LH Specialist come October. We don’t need one for an entire season. I don’t want to see a guy come in throw 9 pitches and come out. Unless he somehow hot 3 outs on those 9 pitches. You can trade for a LH specialist later on.
Bye bye I want feliciano gone. Show Gone. Heilman Gone. This trade could only have been more perfect if it included castillo and show.
I agree Smith might be worth keeping as he is still young. But he has shown he can only get out RH batters. Unless he figures out the other side of the plate he is useless also. he still has options so he can start in AAA.
i’m sorry, but the Mets need to keep Feliciano. if they’re going to trade a LOOGY, it has to be Schoeneweis because Feliciano is actually good. Feliciano is not a setup man (just something we have to live with), but he is a top Lefty specialist and is great in the 6th/7th inning if used correctly (think 2006 when paired with Bradford. he was incredible). be level-headed, please.
I agree completely, when used properly against lefties and not overworked he is dominant. We need to have an arm like that for Howard and Utley when he comes back, if one of the 2 lefties goes, its got to be Schowenweis but he might even be effective if used only against lefties. They will settle for Heilman and a prospect for street, sign Cordero and K-Rod:
K-Rod
Street
Cordero
Smith
Feliciano
Schowenweis
Stokes/Parnell/Sanchez
Thats a solid pen that is cheap after K-Rod
“Fatward”? Really? And what does “Shutley” even mean?
Face Ugly is better than Shutley
They can have all three of them adios!
I’m with you-please don’t tell me we can’t replace Pedro’s one batter max appearances. I think we can learn to live without him
Heilman and Fel for Street as a set-up man? Sign me up!
I said
I said it 2 weeks ago
wow wow
your the best!!!
LOL…I thought the same thing.
Don’t knock the guy for his growing ego. Soon we will have to bow before reading his brilliance.
The Mike Francesa of the blogosphere. Who would have ever thought of this impossibility of a trade?
The Cactus and Kanehl.
What a perfect pairing!
O’Dowd: Omar, we will trade you Coors Field for Citi Field.
Omar: OK
O’Dowd: But how about you throw in some urinals from Shea as well?
Omar: No thanks.
let me explain a little bit. I am all for keeping feliciano and getting rid of Shoe. However, you are more likely to end up with both of them still on the roster next year than you are to actually be able to unload Shoe. I would have made the deal. It would free up enough spots in teh bullpen and guarantee that at least 3 new arms would be there in 2009(3 including wagner’s loss).
OMG, this was hilarious!!!
I cannot believe that Feliciano would be a hang up on this deal. At this point, is there any difference between Feliciano and Show?
No, only the 3 million left on Show’s deal. I don’t know if this is Feliciano’s last arbitration year or not.
Again, I will believe it for sure when I hear more. I still don’t see Feliciano as being the ONLY hangup.
The only way it seems logical that Feliciano would be a hangup on a deal like this is if there is already a deal in the works involving Shoe. Doesn’t make sense to get rid of both of them, but we shouldn’t keep both under any circumstances.
Why not? It’s not like there are not other LHRP on the market.
I understand, but why start all over like that? Instead, we’ll end up overpayign for Beimel. Need to make sure we have at least one lefty out there. Remember, no more Wags = 1 less lefty. We used to be pretty lefty heavy…which is almost as bad as being lefty light.
The difference is that Pedro Feliciano has a changeup. Schoeneweis throws exclusively fastballs and sliders, which makes him useless against right-handed hitters.
Also, adding two relievers to the deal for Street creates another hole to fill where we are already our weakest.
why didnt mets just start the package with feliciano instead of heilman?
We’re they asking for Feliciano AND Heilman, or Feliciano INSTEAD OF Heilman?
I don’t see trading two chips out of the bullpen for Street, but if it was ‘instead of’ I would vote yes – Pedro’s great, but we need some new blood and this would be a great first step.
If true, I really like the aggressiveness of getting someone like Street for the 8th inning.
Why not? It’s not like we want either of those players next season. Trade them both and bring in another guy to walk LH batters.
Haha…I would gladly do that for $3MM. Heck, it’s better than letting him hit it and possibly getting my head taken off.
Because you create a second hole.
There already is a 2nd hole even if he is there. He’s terrible. There are others on the market.
Ollie? :-)
pedro was worse than any reliver on the team including Duaner
heilman and show or pfel (either one I dont care) for Street. then sign Biemel. J cruz and KROD. Bullpen needs an overhaul and this ought to do it. I’ll pay 10 more dollars per ticket to feel confident in innings 7,8,9 again
FELICIANO IS THE WORST OF THE BUNCH HE’S GOTTA GO BEFORE HEILMAN….THERE IS NO WAY THIS RUMOR IS TRUE…PERIOD.
typing in caps definitely makes people take you seriously
I would have to agree about Feliciano being terrible. He was great in 2006 but I think all the apperances in 2006 and 2007 has taken its toll on him. He was flat awful last year. Show was better in EVERY catagory.
sorry didnt realize i was in caps before
but seriously, how does that conversation go…
“Omar throw in Feliciano and its a done deal”
“Sorry, I dont want to give up our worst reliever”
??!?!?!?!!?!?
It probably went something like that. I like Feliciano better than Shoe and still think he can be effective when used properly (i.e. pitching to howard, utley, kelly johnson haha)
Why not put Maine in the bullpen as the 8th inning guy and get a mediocre SP? I mean Maine has yet to finish a season as a starter, either he stinks in the 2nd half or is hurt.
no logic here…the first season he struggled down the stretch…oh maybe because that was his first FULL season….still won 15 games with a sub 4 era….last year he was going fine until…obviuosly the bone spur was hurting him and not letting him go far into games….still won 10 games with a ERA slightly above 4…..oh and wasnt he the guy who was willing to throw down the stretch when it made no sense for him to risk further injury…ya Cactus lets put down the guy who actually has some heart on this team, because we have enough of those guys already? get a clue, please !!!
oh sorry i forgot…he has only had two full seasons in the big leagues…2007 he threw a ONE HITTER on the second to last day of the season and last year was the ONLY time he didnt finish…this is the problem here …fans that have no clue only what the percieve to be true….your a guy who probably wants to get rid of DW because of one at bat….
hello he had like a 6 era in the 2nd half in 2007
Feleiciano is important for 1 reason well maybe 2 (HOWARD,UTLEY) He makes them look Fn silly….I see this deal still getting done..I say throw in Show and a AA mid-lev prospect…and move on to signing a true closes (Fuentes,Krod) ..that would leave us with 2 SPs (Ollie,Sheets,Lowe,Penny,) and maybe 1 more solid bullpen guy (Cruz,Cordero, Beimel) ..I think Delgado will do fine, Id rather move Castillo .. and poss trade some combo of prospects Evans, Carp, Kunz etc.. 4 Dye ..I like Murphy ..I dont want another year of Tatis starting …as a PH hes ok though….this is what would make me happy as a fan ..fingers crossed:
Reyes – SS
Church – RF
Wright – 3B
Beltran – CF
Delgado – 1B
Dye – LF
Grudzielanek – 2B
Schneider/Castro – C
Bench: Anderson,Tatis ,Cancel,Murphy
Rotation
Johan
Pelf
Maine
Ollie
Penny/Lowe/Sheets
Pen
Krod/Fuentes
Street
Smith
Feliciano
Cruz/Beimel
Stokes
etc….
Id be so happy goin into 2009…but we all know thats waaay to much to ask 4…Cmon Omar
I looked at your bullpen and had a flashback to Street & Smith’s football card pricing guide.
Holy crap thats sooo funny…that was the shizz b4 Beckett and Tuff Stuff…
If Omar turned down ANY trade to get rid of Heilman for Street he truely is dreaming of yesteryear.
Heilman for Street or Heilman and Feliciano for Street should be a done deal…then go out and get Beimel and you are done.
Street IS Lidge waiting to happen and by that i mean a change of scenery will make him MUCH better than Heilman-Feliciano.
Street is only 25!
Hey can someone explain to me how since the start of the 2nd half of 2007 Feliciano has been better than Schow? I mean everyone wants Schow gone, but wants to keep Feliciano?!?!?
They are both lefty specialists except only one can get ANYONE out and its Schow, Feliciano didn’t get 2 batters out in a row after July!!!
Im sorry everybody but R.Howard ,J.Pierre,C.Utley,B.Giles,R.Furcal,K.Johnson,A.Ethier all of’em bats under .250 against Feliciano !
Willie… did you just mention Juan Pierre as a reason we should keep Feliciano?
Yeah, that is quite an impressive list there….I thought the same thing…I think Willie is actually Feliciano’s agent with that list he posted….Pierre, Furcal and Kelly Johnson?
guys…this is the thing…street has closer experience, is 25 yrs old and is very good…to have him as a setup man would be unbelievable…give up hielman and feliciano..im fine with that…i do think that this bullpen needs to be redone completely except for smith…this would solve two huge problems…Omar do this deal now. i believe ohman is still available and he is a better lefty specialist…sign him………..guys just think back to all those games last year…santana goes out pitches a gem for 6 or 7 innings…then u almost have a heart attack…well street and krod to close out the pen would be unbelievable
Feliciano caused us Street? Heilman and Feliciano for Street is a good deal, they both came off a bad bad year. The Mets just have to do something about the bullpen, the same group of guys can’t relieve again next season, or else we all have to consult our doctors before watching a Mets game.
i find it hard to believe Omar turned down Street for only Heilman and Feliciano. Feliciano is an above average lefty specialist but hes not deal breaker
to defend Feliciano for the last 1.5 season would be to ignore both stats and your eyes….and if you are able to do that, then you probably think Heilman was Cy Young worthy…so, why defend one and not the other there either?
Sorry for all the posts, I am just so confused by this.
Feliciano is fine – you just have to put him in a batter before you need him so you can get the obligatory walk out of the way.
hahah Thanks Keith, should we also start DWright 0-2 on every county to? According to Keith it works every time, yet how many K’s does Wright have every year…
Yeah since Ks are a really accurate judge of overall productivity for a hitter.
Anyway, I would have sent both Heilman and Feliciano over to the A’s for Street. Heilman needs a change of scenery and Feliciano just isn’t as good as people want to believe he is. Neither add value to this pen right now.
Can somebody post the stats of Feliciano against The best LH hitters in the NL or viceversa ! PLEASE
if you can, go to baseball-reference dot com, find his page, then click on “vs batter” and it shows his stats broken down for every hitter he’s ever faced.
Thanks Man !
are you really willi randolph
Yes Sir ! LOL
I think a deal could get done here
Heilman
Schoenweiss
for
Street
do it do it
Sign Krod
Then all of a sudden it’s not so bad
Rodriguez-9th
Street-8th
Smith 6/7
Felicano 6/7
Sanchez- who could be moved for another reliever /lefty?
Kunz
Stokes- long man
I am cool with that
so let me get this straight…the mets turned down a deal that would send the rockies our least desired reliever and our 2nd best loogy for houston street…..wow
like i said that can’t be true…
it cant be, i mean i would hope it isnt. just so i dont have a stroke im going to convince myself its all bs and theyre still in negotiation.
Perhaps Omar is cooking up another deal and Feliciano is part of that? That’s the only explanation I have for this – it’s pretty ridiculous to think Pedro would make Omar hesitate on this if it’s true.
This is very exciting!
ive said it all offseason so far and will continue saying it…our biggest problem last year was pitching in the 8th and 9th innings.
if we got street to setup krod we would be an awesome team..
and for those of u that like the “What Ifs” then
what if we had street and krod last year??
Santana would have had more than 20 wins and would have won the CY YOUNG!!! and we would have won the WORLD SERIES!!!
I go away for one minute and we finally get some REAL news; figures.
Let’s hope this comes true.
I’d like to see Ayala return. I’m not advocating him for an 8th or 9th inning role but having him in the mix in the 6th or 7th or even in games you’re down a run or 2 to keep it close, he was definitely more of a help last year than a hindrence.
Agreed 100 %
Street is awesome. In his “down year” he still had a decent ERA, a respectable 1.214 WHIP, and 69 Ks in 70 IP. And he’s 24. Get this guy now, Omar!
The only problem I foresee is what they’ll do when he inevitably outperforms their $12 mil a year closer (either KRod or Fuentes)…
also, street has given up 18 homers in his last 269 innings pitched…last year he only gave up 6 homers…very very good…i am always a fan of pitchers who keep the ball in the park
was it just me? but when I saw the heading “Relief Pitcher: Mets offered Heilman for Street” for a few seconds I though the mets have acquired street. I guess I mind read “Relief Pitcher: Mets TRADE Heilman for Street.
man, this hotstove is killing me!!
i wonder if we could get a position player from Colorado too, Atkins is too costly but a guy like Brad Hawpe maybe or Spilborghs, Baker or another one of their relievers like Jason Grilli
If the rockies actually asked for Feliciano instead of a prospect, Omar should be doing cartwheels. He was as big a problem in the pen as anyone.
Maybe he has real value in a trade by himself? Shocking to me, but who knows!
I do AH _+ PF for Street in a heartbeat. Might not end up being better, but it sure does change the mix!
ya know if the Mets got Street it also might help in the K-Rod negotiations, cause Omar can say, we already have a closer so we don’t really need you, then the demand goes down.
i’m a little surprised at the universal kick feliciano (a left that has been strong 2 out of 3 years). he’s 32 years old and very cheap. on the open market he’d easily get a 3 year deal @ $18 million
i’m not saying he shouldn’t be traded, but to just throw him in the deal is silly. he has a lot of value.
street for heilman and a lower prospect should be more than enough.
and k-rod better be closing games at taxpayer stadium this year
i love the idea of street in the 8th and a better closer for the 9th… but is matt implying the mets are wary of giving up heilman + a mid level prospect? seriously? What coudl be a better deal, essentially its the worst pitcher in baseball and a mid level guy for street.
Heilman is essentially the worst pitcher in baseball?
Also I think people are way overrating street. Heilman for Street is more than a fair trade. Throwing anything more in, especially if Feliciano has trade value elsewhere or they plan on moving Scho, would be silly.
He is the worst reliever in baseball;But he will be solid as a starter in Colorado(10 w,4.50 era,185 inn.)
And YES i think we could use that but the EGOS of our front office will not accept that ! So Bye to Heilman then !
The Heilman stats is in 2010. Is just my thougths !
How is he even close to the worst reliever in baseball?
Willie; get yee to a dodger site!
heilman for street is a heist… if the mets think that’s a fair deal they got another thing coming … of course street is not great, but at least he actually belongs in the majors, for one thing.
Gina is SO right….anyone thinking Street is good, just go and check his save percentage, every year of his career…maybe the very worst for anyone who has had that many chances…check it out; it’s almost comical.
And Gina—what do you think? Vince and Devin go for 65 and we win in Staples 2 years in a row??
Idk if Vince will go for many but I’m hoping having like 7 power forwards finally comes in handy and we can control the paint and hold Kobe under 50 or something ridiculous. I just hope we win cause I know like 400 laker fans and I’d love to be able to hold it over their heads.
Worst pitchers in baseball s far as I’m concerned is:
Jose Mesa
Woody Williams
And well can’t forget Jose Lima
way overrating? come on. he’s got great strikeout and home run rates. as for the blown saves…everybody blows saves, don’t really care. if anybody traded heilman for street they’d be getting completely fleeced.
Street blew 7 of 25 save tries in 2008, 5 of 21 in 2007, and 11 of 48 in 2006.
This is incredible, and has to be the worst blown save percentage of maybe anyone in recent years who has had this many chances.
That’s about a 75% save pct., consistent over three years. Do you know how bad that is? Wagner is at 85% for his Met career. JJ Putz is at 84% the last three years, including his injury year last year. This is not even mentioning top closers.
He’s also had a lot of fluky numbers, last year was probably the best indication of the type of pitcher he is. And it’s not a pitcher that’s worth heilman + more, especially when he’ll be an FA soon.
which numbers are “fluky”? (apart from the blown saves; if you think that’s anything but mostly bad luck, you’re dead wrong)
how about his FIP being 2.90 over his career, which is the exact same FIP as uber perfect amazing closer brad lidge, and a tenth of a run higher than mariano?
WHIP:
05: 1.009
06: 1.090
07: 0.940
08: 1.214
K/9:
05: 8.27
06: 8.53
07: 11.34
08: 8.87
K/BB:
05: 2.77
06: 5.15
07: 5.25
08: 2.56
ERA:
05: 1.72
06: 3.31
07: 2.88
08: 3.73
His first 3 seasons were fantastic, this past season was merely good. He still would have been the best pitcher in our bullpen by a wide margin once Wagner went down. And his ‘06 and ‘07 both rival Wagner: he’s better in K/BB and WHIP, but worse in K/9 and ERA.
So you decide which is fluky: his blown saves or all the other metrics.
I dunno why Cerone feels the need to remind us all when he’s right. He should have a special font for “I told you so” posts so he can save time.
Feliciano was onea the worst arms in the pen last year, but hopefully it was only because he was made to face righties. He’s been a great lefty specialist for us, but gets absolutely clobbered by anyone from the right side.
Because when he posts things he hears, people jump all over him for not naming sources or for spouting off idle speculation.
We have become so saturated with misinformation that one finds himself arguing with other people over transactions that will never occur. I don’t know how the rest of you feel but I will no longer react to these rumors and I will wait until something real occurs. Then we can argue the signing and/or trade and call each other morons. :)
It was mentioned earlier that maybe Omar was holding back P-Fel for another deal. That could be the reason. I may be wrong, but wasn’t it mentioned that Tampa Bay was looking for BP help for Jackson or Sonnanstine? You trade for Street and one of the Tampa guys, sign K-Rod and you just got 3 guys in their mid-20’s who could be around for awhile.
I understand we’re all eager for a trade but this was not necessarily the right one. Heilman and Feliciano are tradeable but should be packaged separately for 2 different deals. I just wonder if a trade for Street is fully off the table now.
If that’s really the offer on the table, I’d take it in a heartbeat. Omar can always go out and replace Feliciano as his lefty specialist through free agency. If it meant getting Street, Omar can just sign a left-handed reliever like Eddie Guardado on the cheap after trading Feliciano.
I’d like to see a full action report after this Winter to see what the front office tried to do as far as trades and free agents.
I do that trade is a heartbeat…1/2 a heartbeat.
Trade Heilman and Feliciano for Street then go sign Ohman, it’s that simple.
he’s too young for Minaya.
I’d like to see the Mets sign Beimel to a multi-year contract. Also, I think they should try to make a trade for Peavy and Brian Giles, which might work in exchange for Heilman, Parnell, Francisco Rodriguez, and Church.. I’d also try to trade Evans, Muniz, Stokes and Carp to Seattle for Putz. I’d also sign either K-Rod or Fuentes as a closer. That would give us a rotation of Santana, Peavy, Maine, Pelfrey and Niese. In the pen would be K-Rod (or Fuentes), Putz, Beimel, Feliciano, Smith as the main elements. Maybe Kunz or someone else can fill the last slot, plus a longman (the others left over are Knight, Kunz, Sanchez and Schoeneweis). The outfield would be Murphy, Beltran and Giles with Tatis and Endy as backups. The infield would still feature Reyes and Wright.. If there is any possiblility to improve at 2nd, that’s important – catcher less so, but it would be nice. Moving Delgado and landing Tex would just be gravy.
dude you’re a moron..Peavy and Giles for Heilman Parnell Rodriguez and Church???
Well, the really creative and interesting part is that we sign KRod, then trade him in the deal for Peavy, yet we still have KRod in the bullpen!
If we can swing this, this guy should immediatley become Omar’s boss!
Funny – yeah, that’s a mistake – it’s supposed to be Francisco Martinez – I am a moron! I wonder the correction helps the trade make more sense.
Fernando Martinez…but we are getting there!
I would LOVE to have Peavy as Johan’s number 2, but I would think the Padres would want at least one seriously established sucessful major leaguer along with Parnell and FMart., or maybe they would want FMart, Parnell and Murphy…which would be worth considering…..Peavy would be awesome.
Yeah, I thought of that – I was trying to save Murphy and Niese, but of course, that’s where the trade conversation would go – and let’s see. If you had to change one of the players in that package would you rather give up Murphy or Niese? I think I’d give up Murphy before Niese, but it’s a crapshoot, I’d say. “Will Peavy be healthy and continue to be a dominant starter?” is another question that comes to mind.
Well, what would it take? The owner of the Pods got divorced and needs to cut payroll. He would be getting F-Mart, who is supposedly the holy grail. He’d be getting Parnell who, besides from Niese, is supposed to be our best pitching prospect. They can try to straighten Heilman out, which might only take a change of scenery and an opportunity to start and then Church, who could fill in more cheaply for Giles. The Pods and Mets have a history of these kinds of trades, except that maybe we’d need to throw in another player. The Mets would have Peavy, who isn’t that expensive for an ace, but theoretically could be an injury risk and Giles, who is getting old and is also a bit pricey. If F-Mart becomes as good as advertised, it already pays off. If he’s only just very good and Parnell is decent or better, it’s still not bad, because SD would have 6 years of those two players at a reasonable cost. Heilman could be at least serviceable and is still under control for another 2 seasons – plus Church. The Pods get 4 players for 2 and cut maybe 20 million in payroll per season. Best case for them, they end up with 2 starters and 2 starting outfielders. Or maybe you’re right and I am a moron:)
Sorry man, you said Francisco Rodriguez…FMart’s name is Fernando Martinez…that is why I wrote what I did.
Don’t be sorry – you’re a lot sharper than I am tonight. Now, I’ve also called him Francisco Martinez, so I’m really messed up. Maybe we should keep this kid at least long enough for me to get his name right. Hey, he could become another Jose Reyes, so I’m not set on this. I’m just thinking that it’s getting insane to try and get guys like Lowe, who I like, but might cost a fortune and he’s also no youngster. Peavy and Giles at least shortterm could nicely plug two holes. FMart isn’t ready for the majors yet and there obviously is a school of thought where we trade him now, if we’re gonna trade him, so we don’t pull a Milledge.
Whoever told you Parnell was our best pitching prospect after Niese was lying. Parnell is a borderline non prospect.
I love the idea of Peavy…before it seemed to become impossible, I loved the idea of CC. I think having two aces is a way to win titles, a la Pedro/Schilling, Johnson/Schilling, Seaver/Koosman, Koufax/Drysdale, Palmer/McNally/Cuellar etc.
Peavy is 27 years old, would be a 2nd ace, is righty to complement Johan, has fantastic stats across the board (sub 3.00 ERA 4 of the last 5 years!), has averaged close to 7 IP a start several times, and would instantly make us the NL favorites, as*uming we also got KRod, and a couple of bullpen spare parts.
The more I think about it, I would probably trade ANY 3 players not named Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Johan, or Pelfrey for Peavy, and he is signed for 3 or 4 more years as well I think.
hey kingman just wondered what band were u in?
Hey Rusty–I played in a band called Bone Cellar which changed to Happy Stars in about 1995. The leader was a guy who went by the name Dave Nothing in our “glory years.” He was the singer/songwriter and still leads Happy Stars in LA today. The band has had LOTS of members over the years, but 1994–1996 was the high point.
The highlight was in 1995, when our last Bone Cellar CD Lost in the Light of Day was named by The Rocket, the premier Northwest music magazine, as the 3rd best CD of the year, right after Soundgarden and Hole, and above Nirvana’s Unplugged CD!
We opened for Tad, Love Battery, Guided By Voices, Gruntruck, and other luminaries of the almost-made-it big category. When our major label demo wasn’t picked up in 1997, me and the other two guys at the time called it quits and figured it ws time to grow up! But Dave soldiers on at about age 44 I think….
Parnell, Smith, Sho, Sanchez, Street, Krod works for me. Maybe one more under the radar guy.
agreed
partial plans start tomorrow btw read it on loge 13
I hope I get offered the sunday ticket plan like I have had for the past 6 years. Weekday games are kinda useless. But I guess beggars can’t be choosey
Am I the only one who still thinks Heilman can be an above average reliever? The main reason he was terrible last season was because his BB/9 shot up almost 3x what he posted in 2007. He has also been giving up more home runs than usual.
And if you noticed, he has started pitching sliders last season, which could explain his So, someone should go to up to him, slap him, and tell him to either fix that slider, or don’t pitch it. And that he can’t be a starter with two pitches.
Everyone seems to have forgotten, that from 2005 to 2007, he has given us WHIPs of 1.15, 1.16, and 1.07, and K/BBs of 2.86, 2.61, 3.15.
Street is better than Heilman, but Heilman is no where near the worst pitcher in baseball.
I agree with pretty much all of that. He throws hard and had an off year. Let’s not give him away.
I could even see him getting a chance at the #5 starter spot…he has too much talent to be given away.
i agree that hielman is a decent reliever but hes gotta get outta new york…he will go somewhere like colorado and do great…if he starts then probably not
Heilman may not be the worst pitcher in baseball. But he was one of the worst last season. At least in terms of relievers that is. Sadly, the only guy who may have pitched in as many games who was as equally inadequate was Luis Ayala who the Mets relied on as their closer in pretty much all of September. Street’s a lot better than Heilman. He’s had closer experience. Both Heilman and Street are arbitration eligible for the next two seasons before becoming free agents. In my opinion, Street is better than any set up option on the free agent market.
Heilman has one of the worst emotional psyches towards being a reliever. He’s absolutely miserable down there. It looks like he knows he’s doomed before even going out on the mound.
Heilman will maybe end up on the Cards at some point and Dave Duncan will undo some of the damage that has been done to him in the Mets organization.
Oh no, then he will come back to haunt us regularly! I wish we could send him to somewhere like Tampa so we will not see him when he inevitably regains his good form!
I like the idea the Mets are negotiating with the Rockies. But we have to remember it’s the Post. May not be El Caribe, but it’s sure not ESPN either. I am happy to know the Mets are looking at Huston Street. Pedro Feliciano was paid 1.2 million last season and may get closer to 2 million with his appearing in 85 games. The Rockies are looking at left-handed pitching options such as Will Ohman.
It didn’t shock me that the Rockies would reject this straight up deal. I actually believed it would take Nick Evans. I believe Feliciano holds equal weight to Nick Evans though. The Mets have enough depth to not need Evans, but Feliciano isn’t exactly coming off his best season either. The idea though is that Schoenweis can’t be back. And if he is, he can’t be a possible only or top left-handed reliever. He has to go. I’d preferably like to see both go. You can replace both with a couple left-hander’s out on the market.
it will be easier to move Feliciano over Sho due to contracts. Sho is fine if he is used as a specialist.
Exactly. Lefty batters had .178 BA, .243 OBP, .277 SLG vs. Sho last season. I hope someone points this out to Manuel.
I don’t know. It’s hard to trust Schoenweis in any role after seeing him blow so many leads. I can live with seeing the Mets hold onto one of these pitchers. But it’d better holding onto Feliciano who’s had better seasons in the past. I can go either way on that though because Feliciano went from a 2.09 ERA in ‘06, to 3.09 in ‘08 & 4.05. He virtually is the perfect representation of the gradual decline in the Mets bullpen. He’s averaging to give up a run more a year. If he didn’t pitch in more than every other game though he’d probably pitch more effectively. I’m shocked that there’s a team out that that actually considered Feliciano to be somewhat valuable though. I think this trade is worth it if the Mets can get some mid to lower level prospect back from Colorado. Huston Street won’t come that cheap even if he doesn’t get that much of a pay hike in arbitration either. His salary is pretty much the same as Feliciano and Heilman’s put together after aribtration.
I didn’t actually think his numbers against left-hander’s were as good as they appeared. Someone should point that out to Manuel. But I don’t think Schoenweis is good for it. For what ever reason it is, it feels like when ever we begin to realize a Met reliever has good stats in a specific category they never are able to continue it. Whether we try to justify Heilman’s ‘05-’07 seasons or we recognize and root Joe Smith or Wagner’s runless streaks. I think Schoenweis has to go for the sake that he’s burnt out here. We just need to see new faces. He has some value. They won’t get back anything for him, but they won’t have to pay his salary out. And they can replace that annual wage with a more qualified left-handed set up man like Dennys Reyes or Will Ohman.
It seems to me that Huston Street should be a character in a Mickey Spillane novel. :)
A question to all those that wish for the Mets to acquire JJ Putz from Seattle. Do you really want the Mets to add a pitcher with the last name of Putz in a city with a large Jewish population? :)
Of course I would love to see the Mets acquire both of them but the cost in young talent would be prohibitive.
I think bringing Putz to NYC would be just fine, especially because it’s pronounced “puts” as in “he puts on his socks before he puts on his shoes.”
Correct as usual Hebner!
Get rid of showenweis too!
Yes, he has to go. The Mets need to do an overhaul. Ask Colorado back for a second player in the deal. Probably some prospect. Doesn’t have to be someone amazing, but a player with major league potential.
howz about getting rid of alomar jr – he’s only taking up space lol
Yeah, but you know how the Post would twist that into some sort of strident title. It’ll take too much to get Putz. Why should the Mets give up Martinez and/or Niese, Parnell or Kunz? One draft pick isn’t they wouldn’t be losing wouldn’t compensate for those two players. And it’s clear K-Rod’s more dominant than Putz. The only closer who can compete with K-Rodwho might have a chance of joining the closer’s market because of his salary is Joe Nathan. No one is better or close. Fuentes talent is slightly less than Valverde and Jenks. Mostly because of age of course. I think a name we’ll here mentioned too is Matt Capps. Some sort of trade involving Heilman may be able to get him.
Yeah, I’m sure the media here would eat him alive with that if he were not to pitch well lol I don’t want him though. He’s had arm injuries in the past. We should utilize the free agent market. If they’re to go via trade, I don’t believe Putz is much better than Street. Seattle tends to ask for too much. If they’re to go via trade, I’d rather see them get Jenks or Valverde (pending a signing extension).
i’d rather keep the prospects and sign K-Rod whose 10x better than Putz, Valverde or Jenks anway
agreed we might just get frucked in the draft next year
Yes, I completely agree Oleo. K-Rod’s gotta end up a Met. His price tag has come down. It’s just a matter of whether it’s 3 years or 4 years at this point and who else competes. The Mets have to consider the Brewers a legitimate competitor considering they offered Cordero 4 years/40 million last season. And winded up giving Gagne 1 year/10 million. The Cardinals don’t appear willing to spend. Nor does any other team. It’s just Texas, the Mets and Brewers for K-Rod so I think the Mets can play their hand here. It’s just a matter of whether it’s a 3 year/42 million or 4 year/52 million type deal. A mutual option vesting on statistical performance seems like a reasonable solution. It’d help to keep K-Rod motivated.
i think k-rod will end up a mets cuz if he doesn’t i think there will be so much blowback from us fans if no signifigant changes are made – that fred jeff and omar will look like porn stars after the money shot (howz that for a visual lol)
what happened to the CC post?
c.c went buh bye
what did it say?
umm…it said something about the CC deal setting a bar for all the other deals.
you mean like the Santana deal did? Or maybe that was Zito..
A sidebar comment to pa-ss the time. Copied from a post on mets minors from Toby hyde (credit where it is due!). From a longer post about Murphy and if he can play 2nd.
Some good stuff over there today.. Worth a read. Gist of the arguement on 2B is that Murphy might not be great, but overall he will be better than what they otherwise have.
Oh, and not who is mentioned at the bottome!
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
The two guys, Luis Castillo and Damien Easley, who saw the majority of time at the keystone in 2008 were both very bad defenders. Neither player had enough chances to qualify among The Hardball Times’ Revised Zone Rating leaderboard. However, Castillo (.751) was worse than EVERY SINGLE qualified 2B. Easley beat out three of the qualifiers, but his .795 is nothing to brag about. By the way, the worst 2B with enough chances to qualify, was … Orlando Hudson.
More on topic to the thread, there is also some interesting opinions on Parnell. He is sounding more and more ike a great candidate for a set up role, and could easily be groomed to be a closer of the future. Or sooner, at least a nice power arm for a late inning role.
No problem at all keeping him for 2009 to basically fill the Sanchez/heilmann 7/8 inning role. He shold also be good for 2 inning stints, or could even come in as a long man if needed.
Say the street deal happens, and the sign K rod.
Parnell and Stokes (or Sanchez if he gets his mojo back by ST!) behind them give a nice sounding top 4 for the later innings.
Keep smith for the roogy.
Then just need 2 lefties, at least one of which needs to be a full inning set up guy (who can handle an 8th inning role).
Reyes? guardado? Ohman? for the full inning guy. Schoe or Feliciano (or better maybe, Rincon) can be the Loogy, whoever is still here.
Krod
Street
Reyes
parnell
Stokes
Smith
Feliciano
I think that pen is very doable (putting it together), and way better than what they were rolling out most of last year.
Best thing is, lot more power guys.
that would be a great bullpen and realisitc i might add although i do believe Parnell will be in the minors with Sanchez or a wildcard getting the last spot
ha!
ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/taxpatyyer-field.jpg
I think the Mets should rename the field; call it Gil Hodges Field, after the one man soley responsible for making the franchise respectable!
Hey all you nutty Mets fans; Have a wonderful Thnaksgiving and let’s be thankful that even in these tough times, we still got alot and we still got them darn Mets!
if the Mets were going to rename the field it would be named after the greatest Met of all time, Jackie Robinson
i wish the mets either sign somebody or trade for somebody before thanksgiving, that way the food i’m piging out will digist better!! :-)
the turkey would taste that much sweeter; if you will…
yeah either one!!!
lol
Feliciano almost always gave up a hit to the first batter he faced. I was never comfortable when he was on the mound unless it was vs. Utley and Howard, and those two guys alone s not enough to keep him. Most of the bullpen has to go and an exorcism needs to be performed on the new bullpen at CitiField. That bullpen brings too many horrible memories. I would’ve given away Feliciano and Heilman in a second for Street.
No post on the story about Omar going after K-Rod and Fuentes from last night?
I understand this is going to be incredibly unpopular, but do people forget that Heilman did this?
Year Games W L ERA WHIP
2005 53 5 3 3.17 1.148
2006 74 4 5 3.62 1.161
2007 81 7 7 3.03 1.07
Yes, I know his 2008 was terrible and the Mets need to turn the page, but three straight solid years is not a fluke.
Heilman and Feliciano for Huston Street is a bit much.
Heilman cannot come back to NY. He’s damaged goods in the minds of most Mets fans (including this one). From a psychological perspective alone, he can’t come back. He brings way too much baggage and awful memories with him. This team needs to sever those ties.
Plus, for his sake, he should leave. He wants to be a starter anyway, and all of the booing, etc, can’t be helping his psyche. He – and we – are better off if he’s starting in Colorado or someplace else.
I don’t disagree. I’m just trying to show that he can pitch, and pitch well. Omar shouldn’t jettison him for the sake of getting him out of the Mets uniform. He has value…Mets fans, understandably, don’t see it, but he does.
Heilman and a b-level prospect for Street sounds about right to me.
I agree. But it seems that Feliciano doesn’t have much value by himself and we don’t know who he can be traded for. Plus Shoe did perform better against the LH last year, so he could be the LF specialist.
Even if it is a bit much, (which i dont think it is), You would not do that trade for a combination of Street and KROD at the back end of the bullpen?
gun to the head, I do that trade. However, I can’t hit Omar over the head for trying to include a b-level prospect over Feliciano. Especially with the current value of a solid LOOGY.
You bring up a good point. Heilman is a proven relief pitcher/starter that had pretty decent years. So his value may be greater than what we make it out to be. On the other hand, we might be over valuing Street with his injury history. However, Heilman cannot stay in NY and needs to be traded just like Armando Benitez. I would not mind trading Feliciano and Heilman for Street at this point.
ok…let’s say this deal is made (again, I’m probably for it). That makes show, basically, a must keep. In addition, we’ll probably have to sign or audition leftys for the pen next year.
Are mets fans ok with Show in a Mets uni next year if it means Heilman is gone and a street to KRod/Fuentes back end?
YES!!!
Shoe was actually pretty good against the lefties last season. I think his record was better than Feliciano’s record against the lefties.
Addition of Street would be great if he can stay healthy. On the other hand, Heilman or Feliciano can easily be replaced.
There are plenty of reasons to make this deal. I would have done this deal in a heart beat
1. It fee’s up an extra space in the pen. So we can fill 3 new arms. Closer(k-rod) 8th (Street) and then Beimel (who is a lefty) or someone else.
2. Feliciano wasn’t over worked last year. I don’t know where people get this from. he ended up pitching fewer innings last year then 2007 or 2006. His numbers against Lefties were the worst of the 3 years, and righties hit .357 off him. Show actually performed better against lefties, and righties (thought he was still terrible against righties)
Here is what i would be doing.
Make this trade. Sign K-Rod. Sign Beimel. Sign Cordero. Smith to AAA. Sign Everyday Eddie.
Krod
Street
Biemel
Stokes
Everyday Eddie
Sanchez
Show (unless you can move him also)
In the Minors you have:
Smith (until he can get out a LH hitter)
Cordero until he’s ready to be called up
Kunz who needs to work on getting out lefties also
Parnell
This gives the Pen Depth. I know Biemel will cost 4-5 mil a season and Eddie will possibly also. But that completely puts a new face on the Bullpen. Adds depth in the Minors with guys who could be effective if someone goes down. Has a good Mix of Left and Right pitchers. Also has guys who can get out Both sides of the plate(except Show)
I doubt Omar will sign a non-closer relief pitching to 4-5 mil. He would rather spend that money to get a SP and keep Smith. My bet is that Omar will get an 8th inning guy via trade and sign KRod or Fuentes. Maybe one minor signing of a RP, but that’s probably it as for bullpen.
From what I understand, the Mets DO have a budget to sign FAs this year and it’s not that much.
It’s about 30 million, Maybe a little more.
K-Rod will be 15 mil a season
Biemen(who they have been mentioned over and over) will be 4-5
Every Day Eddie because he is 38 might come a little less
That’s going to be in the 20-25 mil range. That leave close to enough to get one #4-5 Starting pitcher (Garland type).
This is all without moving either Castillo or Delgado. It would also eliminate the Arbitration for Heilman.
If those 2 are move that would open up another 17 million to either sign another SP, LFer or those will be filled with the players that are acquired.
CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
CLUE #1 As WERE SHOPPING STREET FOR SOME TIME.
CLUE#2 ROCKS LOSING FUENTES WANT TO DEAL STREET
CLUE #3 STREET& PUTZ WERE ARGUABLY THE 2 WORST CLOSERS RUMORED TO BE AVAIL THIS YR. IF HE CAN’T CLOSE EFFECTIVLY WHY CAN HE SETUP EFFECTIVLY? IS THERE LESS PRESSURE SETTING UP IN NYC THAN THERE IS CLOSING IN OAKLAND? I CERTAINLY DOUBT IT. HE STUNK IN ‘08. BARELY WORTH HEILMAN LET ALONE HEILMAN+ IN ‘08 STREET ALLOWED 1.22 BASERUNNERS/IP AND K’D ONLY.83/IP, IN ADDITION HAD ONLY 18 SAVES OUT OF 25 OPPORTUNITIES. WHILE U MAY NOT VALUE HEILMAN & FELICIANO YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THERE ISN’T MUCH AVAILABLE OUT THERE & TO OVERPAY WITH BOTH FOR STREET IS LUDICROUS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. HELL, IN MY OIPINION, I’D PREFER AYALA AS RH SETUP TO STREET ANY DAY. STREET’S ONLY ADVANTAGE IS HE’S STRANGE TO THE LEAGUE. SAME ADVANTAGE K-ROD HAS OVER FUENTES. FOR EXAMPLE, IS STREET HAD BEEN METS’ CLOSER FOR ‘08 HE WOULD’VE HAD 32 SAVES. METS ACTUALLY HAD 36 FOR THE YR OUT OF WAGS & AYALA. IS THAT PROGRESS? LAST GM METS HAD WHO WOULD’VE DONE THAT DEAL WAS DUQUETTE.
Ayala was terrible with the Nats last year and he’s not better than Street.
Street wasn’t great last year, but he was a great setup man when he first came up. Plus, he had been plagued with injuries past couple years. If you compare talent alone, Street beats out Heilman and Feliciano.
At this point, Street is the best value out there for Heilman.
Putz isn’t close to the worst anything, and saying that he is devalues pretty much anything else you have to say…he was HURT last year, and before that had a career which improved eevry year leading to an incredible 2007.
At least the Mets are openly discussing a trade for Aaron Heilman. I think he would be better off with another team. I don’t expect him to start at all.
What do you guys think about my new slogan….
DON’T BE G@Y, TRADE HEILMAN AWAY!
i think it can catch on!
DO YOU GUYS EVER READ WHAT YOU TYPE OR ARE YOU SO INVESTED IN “CHANGE FOR SAKE OF CHANGE”? PUTZ WAS INJURED. STREET WAS INJURED. HERE’S MY COMEBACK; HEILMAN WASN’T INJURED! RESULT, HEILMAN MORE VALUABLE. INJURY DOESN’T EFFECT TALENT? PLEASE SEE DUANNER SANCHEZ ‘06 Vs ‘08 AND RECONSIDER. REMEMBER SANCHEZ’ WASN’T A PLAYING/PITCHING INJURY. ONCE INJUERED THERE’S NO TELLING WHAT YOU CAN TRULY EXPECT.PERSONALLY, I DON’ T CREDIT ANY PRE-INJURY NUMBERS ESP WITH A CLOSER, SETUP ARM. TOO LITTLE TIME TO REACT TO STOPPING DAMAGE. AT LEAST WITH A SP THEY’VE TIME TO ADJUST TAKE OFF, CHANGE ROUTINE, FIND WHAT ‘S WORKING, ADJUST TO UMPIRE. DOES ANYONE THINK BREWS GOY VALUE OUT OF GAGNE? OR BOSOX? HELLO, ONCE YOU EXCUSE WITH “INJURED” CLAIM Vs HEALTHY ARM. YOU’RE DEVALUED. I’D MUCH PREFER TO BANK ON A SANCHEZ COMEBACK FOR SETUP THAN OPN EITHER PUTZ OR STREET. THEY ARE WHAT THEY ARE. ONETIME ELITE CLOSERS WITH BROKEN WINGS THAT MAY NEVER REALLY FLY AGAIN.
Heilman was injured, according to posts. Heilman wants to start. And ever since he made it public he wants to he has gone down hill as a reliever. So Just move him for someone who enjoy’s being a reliever. Also with the arbitration raises, the salaries for the 2 will be close to equal.
Also i was looking at where this 30 million dollar mets budget came from. That is what is off the books from last year going into this year. So the mets should easily spend 30 million and can easily go over. The Luxury Cap number per the bargaining agreement in 2009 is 162 million. The Mets current Payroll before the arbitration eligible players is 104 million. So in reality this leaves the mets close to 58 million of breathing room before they enter Red Sox and Yankee Territory.
Knowing this opens up more options and my Relief overhaul and SP (Perez and Garland). The Relief i wanted this trade done, Sign Biemel, Cordero, Eddie Guardado and keep sanchez and Stokes. Also sign a long man. That can al be had for about 35-40 million from the information that we have now. That would still be without Moving Delgado or Castillo. Those players could easily be moved, maybe not Castillo, to fill one of the SP or RP positions. Castillo for a bag of dirt would work for me. That would also still leave some payroll room for an additional bat for 10-14 million, and still be under the luxury tax number, which we all know the wilpons would never approve going over, and nor should they.