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Yesterday, the Phillies made an offer to free-agent RHP Derek Lowe, according to the Boston Globe.
“Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. wouldn’t confirm or deny that an offer had been made, but said, ‘I will tell you that I’ve talked to Derek 
Lowe’s representatives,’” reports Ken Mandel at MLB.com.
However, according to Jayson Stark at ESPN.com, the Phillies have very little chance of signing Lowe.
…i bet, since, from what i can gather, it was a very low-ball offer…plus, it’s pretty clear at this point, based on published reports and the buzz around lowe, that he hopes to re-sign with the Red Sox, for a variety of reasons, from family to redemption…that said, if another team on the East Coast, who trains in Florida, is willing to pay big, big bucks per season, i believe he’ll take the deal…
The Globe also believes a second team made an offer to Lowe, and it was not the Red Sox or Yankees.
…honestly, i’m getting a little nervous for the Mets, with regards to the starting pitcher’s market…i just don’t sense they will end up signing a front-end starting pitcher, like they hope to…it will not be for a lack of trying, but i sense the market will just shuffle out in a way that Omar Minaya is left in the cold…
…and so, the Mets may need to consider signing a player like Jon Garland, who would 
actually be a really good fit for them, while trading for a back-end pitcher like Edwin Jackson to compete with Jon Niese for the fifth starter spot…
…the thing is, i keep reading fans who are saying minaya should trade major prospects to get Jose Valverde or J.J. Putz, instead of a lesser package to Colorado for Huston Street…ok, but, you can’t trade Robert Parnell to three different teams, you know what i mean…so, if a guy like parnell is going to be needed to get a starting pitcher too, you can’t use him now to also get valverde…
…therefore, like it or not, we may be looking at the following game plan as a way to fix the pitching staff:
Trade Aaron Heilman and one prospect for Street; sign Garland and Francisco Rodriguez, which only costs cash; and, lastly, trade an additional prospect or two for a second starting pitcher.
…if the bullpen is strong and traditional, Johan Santana, Mike Pelfrey, John Maine, Jon Garland and a fifth starter could be more than sufficient…not ideal, but sufficient…
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Just posted this in the last thread, but it fits perfectly here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
this might make me a heritic, but I think TRS would agree. The SPs isn’t really a big concern. They have some spots to fill, but the rotation did mostly OK last year, and the open spots were the weak links.
As-suming Maines issues were related to the bone spur (seemingly fixed) and he gets back to where he shold be, the top 3 are solid.
So you are replacing erratic Ollie, and the poo poo platter of 1/2 year or less of Pedro and whatever stiff had that spot.
Not sure what you get out of neise. So I prefer to not pencil him in out of ST. perfect for AAA getting his stuff sharp for the inevitable mid-season call up.
So, IMO, 2 solid guys (not just back end stiffs, but maybe legit #3 types) will be enough to get the job done.
Garland could probably do the job. Or marquis. Or Wolf.
Even better, go with Sheets (more upside, but injury risk) along with a durable back end guy. Or Randy J. Vazquez of course would have fit the bill.
Now, a nice young guy to slot in longer term would be great. Sonnastine? Still really unproven (no more so than Pelfrey I guess).
Maybe Snell, or someone like that? Rigth age, has stuff, just had a bad year? Could he be the 2009 Cliff lee?
Oh, and really don’t be surprised when the back end guy to fill in the rotation ends up being another year of Pedro. As the #5 guy instead of a marquis?
I had almost forgotten how upsetting the off-season can be. I read all of these posts about what other teams are doing, and poor Matt has to sit there and type the same things, in different order, day after day. It’s hard not to get discouraged, but if you think about the last few years, the Mets did end up with some of the biggest names available (Pedro, Beltran, Santana).
A while back I posted about the Mets going after Teixiera, then trading Delgado to Seattle for Putz. It seems like a perfect fit, yet the only one I know of that agrees with me is Matt.
I know the excuse will be that teams are worried about the economy, but the Mets really shouldn’t act like they are beggars in this market. They have a new stadium opening next year, they have their own cable network…. trust me, they will have money.
The big problem with signing Garland is that he’s not very good.
In a nutshell, why I don’t want him! He defines “serviceable” (aka an innings eater).
If you play it smart, I guarantee there will be 3 or 4 starters that fall through the cracks and are available for 1-year deals that end up putting up better numbers than Garland in 2009. You just have to be smart/lucky enough to sign one of those guys.
Exactly Danny.
You cant have 5 aces, Garland has been in the american league his whole career and is always around 200 IP, and his worst era season was last year at 4.90, take a half run off of that for a 5th starter in the NL and that is more than fine
There are terrible offenses in the AL West. And there are great offenses in the NL East. I don’t buy the ERA will automatically drop a half-run argument for pitchers coming over to the Mets. Maybe if Garland goes to the NL West where they can’t hit either.
The difference between the NL and AL ERA is always over-exaggerated. In 2008 the difference was .06 (4.29 to 4.35) and in 2007 the difference was .08.
That being said, I wouldn’t mind Garland as long as he is signed as a 4th/5th starter type. He’s not going to blow anybody away but he consistently pitches around 200 innings and his ERA\WHIP have been close enough to league average to make him a decent “back-end” solution.
The problem is that guys like this usually get bigger contracts than they are worth. So if another team wants to pay him as a middle of the rotation guy, I don’t think it’s worth trying to match that.
Stickguy, I agree. The last guy who came from the AL who was an “innings eater” was Joe Blanton, and his “innings eating-ness” disappeared once he started to have to bat every 2 innings.
but it worked so well when they signed Tracshel and traded for Appier…
Hahaha, true.
Garland IS the back-end rotation guy. I would actually rather have Jackson than Garland.
I think we should stay away from the Burnetts/Lowes of the world and look into a Sheets or Perez plus Garland or Pedro for the 5th spot. I like either Perez/Pedro with Niese at AAA or Sheets/Garland with Niese in AAA as well. One injury risk in each case, but some upside. Pedro will come back for an incentive laden deal without question, so why not?
Johan
Pelfrey
Ollie
Maine
Pedro
OR
Johan
Sheets
Pelfrey
Maine
Garland
Both of these are solid rotations without counting on a rookie but still having him as a fall back
Cool, another convert!
I dont get it
I am a big Sheets fan too. I think because of his injury history we can get him at a discounted rate. And then if we surround him with Johan, Pelf, etc… his personal burden wouldn’t be as great.
I kind of agree with you…It looks like things aren’t going to work out in Omar’s favor in the SP market, so he must think a bit outside oft he box. I honestly consider Sheets/Perez the same, in terms of the number of good starts you’ll get out of them in a season, given Ollie’s streakiness, and Sheets’ injury history.
At the same time, Ollie has dominated the Mets main competition (though struggling against lesser teams) while Sheets is a bit more consistent, and will be less expensive, allowing Omar to go after a guy like Garland for the number 5 spot, leaving Niese the insurance against injury. There will also be more money which can be allocated to either the pen or the lineup.
I agree that Ollie and Sheets are both very comparable, a ton of upside with a main concern, Sheets injury and Ollie consistency. They also will probable cost a similar amount of money per year.
Its got to be like 2/34 for Sheets or 4/55 for Ollie. I think I take Ollie because of his age but have a feeling the Mets would rather not make that commitment and would prefer Sheets in this scenario.
I’d take sheets in that scenario. Why compound the question mark with 2 extra years? I’m ready to wave goodbye to mister bubblegum. Sheets for 2 years would, in my mind, be perfect.
c’mon, sheets is worthless, he’s the next pavano.
hes not the next Pavano becuase the Mets wont give him that type of contract, he can be had for 2 years/ 32 million im sure, which is not a bad contract for someone who has potential to win 20 games and pitch like an ace
lol, what?
your comments get more and more ludicrous every day.
sheets is twice the pitcher pavano is. i’d tell you to check the stats, but i know that’s a pretty tall order for you.
if healthy sheets is top 5 pitcher in the NL!!
yup. I would rather have 24 ace like sheets starts and 8 fill ins (say by neise) than 32 lima like starts out of Garland.
Thats well said
yep
i’d rather have ollie than garland mostly bc i think garland would get shelled by philly and ollie has shown he can shut them down…also…this just proves that they MUST build this team around a strong bullpen as they did in 2006 and as the phillies did in 2008…bullpens mean the world…trade fro street, sign krod and fill in a couple of solid guys in between and i think given his young age ill give ollie a 4 yr deal as opposed to garland a 4 year deal
Id rather Ollie than Garland too but I think its an argument that doesnt matter because if they sign Ollie they can also have Garland, the argument is more like Ollie vs. Sheets and Garland vs. Pedro/Niese/Marquis
I really think the mets (unfortunately) view him as top of the rotation… or at least that’s how they’ll spin it.
What’s the status on Brad Penny? Now he’s a guy when healthy that can be a solid #2
probably pedro/marquis for 1 year vs. tying into garland for 4. Similar results, less commitment.
Anyway pay attention to how Eaton worked out (and is still dragging down!) the Phils? Think they want to reneg on that 3 year deal?
i completely agree with that. I would only be in favor of Garland on a 1 year deal, maximum 2. If Pedro takes an incentive laden 1 year deal hes my 5th starter choice, but I dont want another injury prone pitcher beside him.
Why do you think Garland will sign anywhere for 1 or 2 years though? He’ll get 3 at a MINIMUM.
I agree Garland would get lit up by Philly, but as a #5 starter I’m ok with him. He is not the top of the rotation guy this team needs.
With Sheets, I dont think the injury risk is as high as people make it out to be. Last year he had 31 starts and 24 the year before. He is gonna gibe you an ERA in the mid 3s and a whip in the low 1s. Doesnt walk many batters,
I posted this yesterday; sorry to post again, but I found it quite surprising (plus I think I’m proud that I did math)
perez–5.71 ips
wolf–5.76 ips
e. jackson–5.91 ips
sonnanstine–6.04 ips
garland–6.14 ips
lowe–6.21 ips
vazquez (for comparison)–6.31 ips
sheets–6.40 ips
I’m no sabermatrician, nor am I really good at math (or most other things) so I (perhaps erroneously) converted thirds of an inning to .3 and .6 when I divded innings by starts (jackson was the only one who pitched in relief).
I think it is pretty amazing how much sheets pitched last year, but I guess its when you pitch as well–el duque ‘06. and I think it’s how you pitch too. And I remember the Mets stealing a game in September (really?) when Sheets was dominant but had to give way to the likes of gange et al. I think the next week he pitched 2 and 2/3 innings.
sheets is the man.
And good point about Garland. he isn’t the mid-rotation guy (leaving you with the 5 hole to backfill). He is the 5 hole back fill, just at ridiculous money.
I see Garland and Blanton as the same pitcher..Blanton did ok in Philly
in fact they are VERY similar pitchers…at # 5 Garland is not a bad option if he lowers his $ demands…at #3 I don’t see it.
Yeh i agree, other than his 1st start vs the MEts where he got hit pretty bad, he did a very good job for the Phils
Garland is worse than Prez. Therefore team gets worse. Make all the excuses for Garland and Omar you want, he’s a 3 5. Niese is at best a # 5 also. Two #5’s is a worse rotation than last year. But if Omar signs Garland we’ll hear for 3 months what a genius he is and what a star Garland really is.
Rod, I don’t think a lot of people love Garland like you make it out to be. I think there will be a lot of backlash if Omar signs Garland and pronounces him a top of the rotation starter.
while i think Teixeira would shore up the Mets offense for a long time I just dont see the Mets doing it. They dont see offense as a need.
it seems as if Lowe is out of reach so i think that if the Mets can sign Teixeira they could move Delgado to Tampa Bay but not for Sonnanstine or Jackson.
I would try to trade Delgado and Parnell for Garza and Balfour. Garza is a much a better pitcher than the other 2 and Balfour has great stuff and even though he’s not going to repeat his amazing year he’s a great power arm for the 7th inning.
The Mets coud then sign Brad Penny on a 1 year deal to see if he could rebound and then re-enter the market the following year and a much better contract.
Then sign K-Rod and trade for Street and maybe sign Cordero and besides a few minor moves thats it
Why on earth would the Rays trade Garza and Balfour for a 35 year old aging left handed slugger who is making a ton of money compared to the pennies they have to pay Garza and Balfour? If the Rays deal a starter it will be Jackson or Sonnanstine.
b/c they have don’t need Garza. they have Price who will win the Cy Young in 1-3 years, Shields, Kazmir and Sonnanstine and Jackson are fine as the #4 and #5
Delgado might be 35 but he hit 40 HR at 1B for the Mets, imagine what he’d do at DH at Tropicana
not to mention they have plenty of young starters (Wade Davis and James Houser) who along with Parnell would be MLB ready by the 2010 season at the latest
Yeah, but Oleo, if they trade Garza and Balfour do you REALLY think they’ll be pounding down the door for Delgado? I’d think they’d want a YOUNG power hitting outfielder/1B type, similar to what they gave up for Garza in the first place.
What a silly trade idea. The Rays need to get rid of a #5 starter so we ask for a number 3 starter with a package that MIGHT get the #5 starter. Duh Garza is better but that’s why we can’t get him.
Focus on Heilman and Delgado for Sonnanstine.
i know there are a lot of people who don’t buy into what was described in Moneyball , but even more than OBP and OPS and sabermetrics, the premise of the book was simple: find what is undervalued in the current market that can help your team the most.
For me, that seems to be relief pitching–not that anyone underestimates the importance of relief pitching, but that right now there seems to be more supply than demand.
Obviously, as we’ve seen over the past two yseasons, the quality and endurance of a rotation can really impact a bullpen, so I don’t think that can be ignored. But I think this team can do a lot more for itself, not only next season, but for years to come, if by only minimizing salary, longterm contracts, and retaining prospects, by addressing the bullpen first and foremost.
Garland is terrible. If he is the Mets big offseason starting pitcher acquisition I’m gonna puke.
Please please please do not look at his W-L record to evaluate him. Look at the stats that count.
I don’t know if I can watch Garland for the next 4 years if that’s our big acqusition this year.
I am starting to get this dreadful feeling we’re not going to get who we want and make some horrible choices. I sure hope that’s not the case.
Unless people are emailing Matt and not posting here, most of the posts I see aren’t calling for the Mets to sign CC, Burnett or Lowe. Rather, we are asking for guys like Garland, Wolf, Sheets, Vasquez, Snell, Jackson, Sonastine, etc.
Also, I’ve never read anyone posting that we should trade for Putz or Valverde instead of Street. I’ve heard of proposals for Putz but only to get rid of Delgado after we sign Tex. And pretty much everyone on here is begging for the Heilman and prospects for Street trade.
Brad Penny is the perfect signing for the Mets. 1 year with incentives b/c if he can pitch like he did in 07 then he’s in for a huge payday in the offseason and the mets could let him go as a type A.
I’m thinking the same thing. I would be happy with Sheets and Penny.
well Sheets isnt coming here but if the mets signed Teixeira and traded Delgado for a decent starter then i would be perfectly happy with that.
remember if we fix the bullpen and add teixeira then we shore up every position except 2B which isnt that hard to fix and our top prospects are still in the system.
we could let Penny walk collect the picks and then use all of our money next offseason to sign a #2 starter. guys like Lackey, Duscherer, Harden, Bedard, Myers, Wellenmeyer etc. are available
Penny is a great option, he’s been suppoedly rehabbing like crazy to get into good shape. Just don’t make the mistake of making him anything more then a 5 starter until he proves himself.
I thought so too–I even thought maybe the Mets should try to make a trade, b/c I didn’t think the Dodgers wouldn’t exercise their option on Penny. But they didn’t, and their reason why, accounting of course for potential spin, concerns me:
According to the Los Angeles Times, several Dodgers officials “have questioned the severity” of Brad Penny’s shoulder problems and “blamed his 6-9 record and 6.27 ERA on what they called a poor work ethic.”
Just throwing it out there.
If its Krod, Garland and Street, we better be front-runners for Tex or Manny.
Krod and Garland combined would consume all of the available free agenct resources for 2009.
then enjoy watching the Phillies in the playoffs
LOL, right. Just because we did not sign any big name FA we can’t make the playoffs? Come on. The Phillies had their entire bullpen pitch over their heads last year and still need offense to replace Burrell. Nothing is a lock yet.
I want more but if we got Garland, Krod and did some small minor moves to import setup men and depth on the bench we would still be right there.
Are you taking into account the money coming off the books? Alou, Duque, Pedro, Ollie, etc.
“…and so, the Mets may need to consider signing a player like Jon Garland, who would actually be a really good fit for them, while trading for a back-end pitcher to compete with Jon Niese for the team’s fifth starter spot”
Garland is that back-end pitcher at best. The fact that Matt keeps stumping and banging the SNY drum for Garland makes me really nervous.
This is how I hope it plays out:
- sign Garland for three years $40M
- sign Ibanez for two years $15M
- trade Heiman & Feliciano for Street
- trade Church & Smith for Jackson & Bradford
- trade Parnell, Vargas, Kunz & Murphy for Dye & Jenks
- resign Ayala
- sign Eckstein
Line-up
Reyes – SS
Beltran – CF
Wright – 3B
Delgado – 1B
Dye – RF
Ibanez – LF
Castro – C
Castillo – 2B
Bench:
Schneider
Chavez
Anderson
Tatis
Eckstein
Rotation:
Santana
Garland
Pelfrey
Maine
Jackson
Pen:
Jenks
Street
Sanchez
Bradford
Ayala
Schoenweis
Stokes
They still keep their top 2 prospects – Martinez & Niese
Since they don’t sign a big time closer the pay roll only increases $20M after the free agent signings
The trades will result in about a $20M increase to payroll, but the only arbitration eligible players left are Maine & Sanchez….I expect Maine to get a pretty significant raise, but not Sanchez
Hey this is not likely, but being creative might be the best way to proceed.
you live in a fantasy world… and i’d rather have church at 30 then dye/ibanez at 36+…. and since when is martinez our best prospect, he s unproven, and i would rather trade him now…
Church is unproven while Dye and Ibanez are no doubters on short term investments
Since Martinez is a prospect he is indeed unproven….and 9 out of 10 people would tell you hei is the top Met prospect
Martinez has been our best prospect for quite a while now. Wilmer Flores is making some noise now but F-Mart is the top guy in the system for a while. Where you been?
Oh and all prospects are “unproven”. That’s why they are prospects.
If martinez isn’t our best prospect than who do you think is? And how can you see since when is he our best prospect when pretty much any and every source you’ll read has him as our best prospect.
awful just awful
deplete our farm system for Jenks and Dye when K-Rod is available??
sign Ibanez and trade Church??
sign Garland for 3 years 40 mil and let K-Rod sign someplace else for the same thing???
awful yes. but I have to admit, it does sound like something Omar would do.
The worst part is giving up the first round pick for Ayala while trading away the whole farm for other short term players.
Ayala would not cost a first round pick….we would be resigning him plus he is a type B free agent….wake up dude
right, so thats ok.
everything else is terrible though…
you’re entitled to your opinion Nate, but IMO they are realistic moves when considering the Mets needs, the other teams’ needs, salary constrictions and the current market….but I did say the moves were unlikely… just my way of playong fantasy GM like most do on this site
The Mets don’t have a farm system to deplete
Church has never played a full season while Ibabnez bats 290 and drives in 100 runs every year, so I guess that would make the Mets worse….according to you.
Garland at that price is reasonable compared to the other pitchers out there
K-rod making $14M vs Jenks making $5M…this is a business, remember
you also have major holes to fill in the next year.
Delgado and Dye are basically 1 year and done after 2009 (dye coupld be optioned, but they are old).
Both catchers are FA after 2009. And old.
Castillo is one year closer to a walker.
one year at a time dude….we have holes to fill this year
Dye is a place holder for Martinez
Delgado would be gone next year even if those moves were not made
One year at a time is HORRIBLE team building strategy.
I think this guy might be Steve Phillips?
….and I suppose you’re a baseball genius….I have read many of your posts regarding signing Texeira, meanwhile there has not been one story linking the Mets to him…at least I use current info to make my far fetched predictions…..
Are you sure you’ve read his posts. If you had you’d know he pretty much always says it’s a pipe dream but that there’s no reason the mets shouldn’t be intersted.
I try to be realistic in terms of what the Mets are likely to do not what I think they should do…big difference between the two….if I was GM, I would be proceeding differently than Minaya….I’m not ,so I am trying to figure out how Minaya is thinking
Precisely what I was thinking. VERY short-sighted.
It’s hard to read your posts and not scream. There’s some great info on this blog. You should read some of it.
Why would you even waste money and a pick on Ibanez when Dunn and burrel can be had for cheaper and no draft pick. There is absolutely no reason for Ibanez to be in a mets uniform next season.
I picked Ibanez for 2 reasons:
1- the Mets like him
2 -he is the best of the three
He is no where near the best of the three. He is the worst by a fairly wide margin.
Who is the best of the three can be argued, but the Mets like Ibanez….Dunn and Burrell aren’t even in the discussion in terms of who the Mets are targeting, so Ibanez has a good chance of wearing blue and orange….like it or not
also bradford is basically an older overpaid version of smith. Why would we trade smith for him that’s silly.
Because the Rays want to move his salary….give and take Gina
I’m pretty sure all we’re doing is giving in that deal.
well Bradford was quite successful for the Mets in 2006 and thrived in NY….very important factors…Smith might be a younger and cheaper version, but not better
Church for Jackson is very even in terms of talent…Church would be expendable only if the Mets got both Ibanez and Dye….otherwise if wouldn’t make sense for the Mets
Church for Jackson is not even if we’re going to have to turn around and trade prospects to fill right field. You’re essentially giving up Church + everything you gave up for Dye for Jackson. And Jackson is absolutely not worth that. At best Jackson is a back end of the rotation guy. If we want a Ray starter it should be Sonnanstine but.
Gina you made your points….I’d like to see what you would do given the opportunity of being GM…use trades and signings that have at least been mentioned…no CC Sabathia or Texeira signings or trading Delgado please….also don’t go over $40M in payroll increases and consider that we have six players on the current roster that are arbitration eligible, which include the likes of John Maine, Heilman & Church…have fun
I think Omar should put a 7yr/135 million dollar offer together for Sabathia, he obviously isn’t in it for the money, since hes has a 140 million dollar offer for 3 weeks from the guys across ton, we could sign him for what we sign Santana, that’s 2 super lefty’s… we could then have Castillo pitch in the 5th spot for all i care…
thats not anywhere near enough to bring in CC.
If he’s not accepting the Yankees huge offer yet, because he doesn’t want to pitch in NY … why on Earth would he sign with the Mets for less?
yeah … ok.
Not likely but possible that he wants to stay in the NL instead of the AL espeically the AL East.
Sure it’s possible. But it’s also possible that if the Mets offered him 135 when the Yanks already offered him 140 … then all the Yankees are going to do is up their offer more. If Mets get involved the Yanks are going to way over pay and the NL thing won’t make any difference since he doesn’t want to play in NY.
he get´s to bat!! he loves to bat!!
GET #25!!!!!! ben sheets, k-rod and street.. then we sign someon like penny or garcia for the 5th spot if we don’t get one for delgado.. please omar, don’t make this offseason a painfull one for us.
Get Tex, Krod and Street. After that I don’t care who the starters are for this year. Get the left overs. If one of them is Sheets then so be it.
So excited for the Winter Meetings. It is exhausting reading and writing about all this stuff everyday. (Not that for the life of me I can resist doing it lol)
But I gotta say, I think the Mets have an absolutely enormous opportunity to improve the team this offseason. (Even more so than last offseason getting Johan) Johan was critical for us, but we still needed to fix our bullpen. Now, this year having Johan already, we can address our bullpen.
I’m just looking forward to Opening Day at Citi Field, Johan throwing 8 innings, 10K, 5H, 1BB, 1ER, then Jerry handing the ball off to our new closer.
I think the NL East is going to be the best division in baseball next year. Especially with all the moves the Braves are doing. It will be a great year. Can’t wait!
I don’t know why it is just as$umed that the Mets are out of the running for a front end starter. Why is that? The Mets can compete financially with any team, except maybe the Yanks.
The way I see it, the two most glaring needs are a closer, and a front end starter. We need a reliable, good, proven 15 game winner, and that means a top free agent. With Pedro and Ollie gone, that leaves Santana, Maine, and Pelfrey as our only definite starters. But, even with those three, there are a lot of ifs. Santana will be Santana, but Pelfrey had a good season, but is definitely not proven, and Maine is a question mark with his surgery. Even without his surgery, he is not a lock for 15 wins.
We need to get a big time starter. We are a big market club and continually look for bargain basement deals and retreads. That is a good strategy for smaller holes to fill, but we have big holes in starting pitching and relief pitching. We shouldn’t rape what’s left of the farm. We sold more than 4mil tickets last year for the first time. The fans are paying, and the Mets are definitely not strapped for cash. We need to spend some money.
I don’t think it’s that we can’t afford a top SP it’s that the contracts for them are just silly this year. Those big 3 are going to get WAY overpaid because the Yankee’s need 2-3 pitchers. Let them go this year and then next year we will be in a buyers market.
But, are we sacrificing 2009 to get to the buyers market? Or do we overpay to have a chance at the WS in 2009. I say if we have to overpay for one sp, then do it. A big market team can afford it, and we are giving ourselves a chance for a big year. Plus, we aren’t raping the farm system.
but i sense the market will just shuffle out in a way that Omar Minaya is left in the cold…
No kidding? He’s already perfected that move in regards to relievers and corner outfielders. Guess he’s branching out.
Listen, this is the NY Mets. The only reason they get “left in the cold” is if they allow it to happen.
dude you’re not a Mets fan…you’re a Philly troll…concentrate on your LF issue man
If I was a Phil fan, I’d tell you to concentrate on your choke issue while we concentrated on our championship.
But the fact is I’m not. But hey, if you’re going to be satisfied with Garland and whatever other scraps they can get for starting- while still trotting out Castillo and Schneider – well, you’re not much of a Mets fan.
Omar never does anything wrong for some of you.
Omar does plenty wrong and plenty right.
However, when someone’s handle is mocking our best offensive player you are not going to get a lot of respect on a Mets blog.
Sorry, the people on this blog:
1) Think the Mets won something because they beat the Phils in the season series
2) Think that the best reply to criticism of the baseball team is to make fun of a football team
3) Think that because Wright has a G Glove, he’s actually won something
I love the fact that MetsBlog and us Mets fans are already prepping for yet another Omar fail and the winter meetings haven’t even started yet.
Oh, so in addition to lousy starting, Omar will have Schneider at C, Castillo at 2b, and Delgado (ready for another decline) at 1B
Yeah….2009 is gonna be our year *eye roll*
I knew this off-season would disappoint. We’ll get whatever closer we want and then nothing else really. We forget that the offense is also mediocre and we’ve done nothing to address it.
Garland is utter mediocrity. I’d rather overspend for Lowe than give 2/3rds of that to Garland. Dang at this point re-signing Ollie almost makes the most sense. Ugh.
How is our offense mediocre when it’s runs scored were at the top of the league?
Stats don’t tell you everything, my friend. This team consistently didn’t score against mediocre pitching. The team’s situational hitting and clutch hitting (men in scoring position and w/ bases loaded) were not good.
Just because the rest of the league wasn’t great doesn’t make the Mets a murderer’s row.
Who else is available for the Mets sign? Garland sounds like a decent #5, but can the Mets sign a #2-3 type of pitcher?
How about guys like Sheets? I think he’s worth taking a risk, if the Mets took a chance on Pedro, Alou, amd El Duque.
One other wrinkle that I think is worth mentioning (that noone else has been) is that we have a full year of Jerry this year. I can’t offer any reasons as to why the Mets played better under Jerry than under Willie, but it’s pretty clear they did.
I think there is hope that we can all hold onto in that. That being said, we make a couple moves, and we’re good to go.
Incidently, how good will Reyes and Wright be this year??? I’m thinking Reyes is due to start another All-Star game!
The real question is how good will they be in SEPT?
Because we know Reyes takes that month off…..
I don’t have an aversion to Garland if he is paired with someone like Sheets. The downside is that when Sheets get hurt we are looking at Niese jumping into the #3 role rather than the #5 role. But the upside is that Garland (and hopefully Maine) will be very solid at the back end of the rotation and they shouldnt need a constant parade of replacements there.
I keep recalling Traschel and Appier, and how the Mets lost out on all the big free agents that winter, and gave those two back end starters big money and long term deals. They can’t make that mistake twice.
but they can trade appier for mo vaughn so its all good…
they already have Castillo so there is no need.
Ok, simple final plan. Probably even affordable (but hey, i don’t have the budget handy!)
Sign Sheets, Tex and wood as the big guys.
Sign Guardado for cheaper.
Sign Grudz to BU the inf.
Do the heilmann + feliciano for street deal (if it is real).
Trade for marquis (salary dump or swap a bad contract) or resign Pedro or Randy J for 1 year.
Unload Delgado, Castillo (one can only wish!), Heilmann, Schoe and Feliciano
As part of the moves (say Delgado) try to get a new C (at least to platoon of AAA guy for the future) or a similar 2B.
Fill out the pen with smith/loogy/parnell/cordero/stokes/sanchez/etc.
rotation is fine. Pen vastly improved. Position players stabalized. Malcontents and geezers removed. Sets up nice for 2010+ too.
And, you have retained the prospect pool for fill ins, starters, or to move in other trades. And just lose 1 draft pick (recouped as a supplemental for Ollie).
No charge Omar. It isn’t really that hard, but Tex is the key.
Although if they make my other moves, but keep Delgado, they can still be the dominant team in 2009. Just not as good ongoing.
….did you go back to August and steal this from one of my posts? ;)
If the best we can do this season is Garland as our fourth best pitcher we might as well just save our money and kiss this season goodbye. Especially if the Braves can land someone like Burnett.
Burnett is going to be the most overpaid and is the most overrated pitcher on the market…total waste of money.
I love how everyone is preparing for defeat already and it’s not even the winter meetings yet….how about breathe a little bit everybody
I agree with you. The Mets should sign someone better than Garland. I’d rather see them sign Sheets or Penny than Garland
Gina, while I agree that if Garland is the only answer the season is likely shot, I’m not sure if it’s the Braves I’d be worried about. Obviously the Phils are at the top, and I really like what the Fish have done this offseason already.
if the fish can get the giants to swap Cantu for Sanchez, which I hope they can’t, then you’re right they are going to be much scarier than the Braves.
It is a little sad, yes
that said the Mets could do a nice job of building a respectable team for 2009, while filling some of the holes for 2010 and forward, without giving up draft picks as compensation. Garland, Wood, Dunn or Abreu instead of Lowe, K-Rod, and Ibanez would save them 3 picks and not harm the talent level that much.
I can agree with this. The problem is I see no way it happens. I imagine it’s going to be some sort of mix of Garland, K-rod, and for some reason that no one will understand Ibanez instead of one of the 3 better left fielders who won’t cost a draft pick. So we’ll be wasting money while simultaneously not really planning long-term.
but what that ends up doing is banking that the same bullpen will be better next year.
Biemel and Cordero would be good ideas, and after KRod the compensation would be apropriate.
If they get stuck with a mediocre rotation then they need a lights out pen… or we’ll have a repeat of last years bullpen.
I understand why we may sign Ibanez—he is VERY good, is from NY, and will only need a 2 or 3 year commitment most likely. And he will cost MUCH less than Manny (who I would certainly prefer but it isn’t realistic) or Dunn. Dunn is good, but he is not great, and will probably cost much, much more than Ibanez.
As much as I have opposed Dunn coming to the Mets, I would agree that he is a better option than Ibanez. However, I think what Omar wants from Ibanez is short term contract and good leadership.
You are correct sir!! And Dunn would indeed be nice, but not for some crazy long-term deal…sure he gets on base and hits homers, but he is not great.
And signing Ibanez would leave a lot more dough to potentially make a run for Tex….
But why give up a high draft pick when you can get the better player, who would fill a long-terrm hole also. There is just really no justification for it.
Ibanez will likely cost more than Dunn. Not to mention he will cost a draft pick. If they plan on signing K-rod, Ibanez and possibly making a run at Tex they’re looking at giving up their top three draft picks already, and spending pretty much all the money we have coming off the books, before they even look at other holes.
Ibanez will most likely require tens of millions less in salary commitment than Dunn. That would be the number one reason I would imagine. A perfect world would be Manny or Dunn, and Tex, and KRod, but at this point, KRod, Ibanez, more bullpen help and Ollie or Garland may be what we are looking at.
I’m not sure we’re you’re getting this from. There is pretty much no chance Ibanez costs less per year than Dunn. And giving more years to Dunn would make sense because you’d be asking him to take over for Delgado next year. So it’s basically an even swap, if not a net gain, in salary.
No offense Gina, but if you think Ibanez at his age will cost more than Dunn, in years, annual salary, or total commitment, this is almost certainly vastly incorrect.
You are both wrong.
Ibanez will get something like 2/24 and Dunn will get something like 3/39 there is not going to be a big difference at all.
especially since the dbacks didnt offer dunn arb, we should be making a play for him..that contract offer is pretty reasonable
I would do 3/39 for Dunn today and be thrilled. But my guess is that Dunn will get more and Ibanez will not get 12 mil per.
And all of the anti-Ibanez folks should really take a minute and look at his stats.
I’ve looked at his stats and I’m not sure he’ll out produce some sort of super platoon we could put together with guys we have and lesser free agents.
Not to mention if the market for Dunn is as small as every source claims why would he end up signing for more? The D-backs didn’t even offer him arbitration and his arbitration number would have only been 13 million, do you think they would have been worried about about him accepting that number if they thought he could get better on the open market? It’s the same reason the reds ended up trading him.
Gina, I would prefer Dunn. Absolutely and positively. He is like a version of Dave Kingman who gets on base a ton, is consistent every year, and doesn’t get hurt all the time–what could be better than that??
You may in fact be right about his cost. If the market for Dunn turns out to be where we can get him for 3/39, and someone else gets him for that, I will be incensed.
I ONLY like Ibanez if we go for bigger money for pitching and Dunn gets a lot more than what you and TRS think he will get. If Dunn’s market is this low, I truly hope we get him.
I think our only real disagreement is that I think Ibanez would be a serious addition to the offense, and would virtually guarantee what we would HOPE to get from a Tatis/Murph platoon. None of which would win a gold glove.
I should say my point is more that if we just have too many holes to fill in this one off-season, which I think we do, then rather than overpaying some crappy players to try and scrap together band-aids we should be looking to make deals to make us better in 2010. The problem is I don’t think there’s anyway our front office does this.
It’s also very hard to do, because players’ performances are so up and down, year to year. But I agree with you that there may be too many holes to fill for 2009.
I think you have to put together the best team you can even if you end up with a bunch of plan C’s. It might gel in an unexpectedly good way.
The time to think about getting better in 2010 would be June or July when trading a (hopefully heating up) Delgado and others would be more reasonable.
Now I agree that signing Ibanez doesn’t make sense for anymore than 2009, and its hard to even give them that given the alternative LF’s.
The point is, I dont really see how they are setting up to make shortsighted moves with anyone else.
Short sighted moves IMO would be bringing in Ibanez, not doing anything about first base, or the hole in the middle of the line-up. And not bringing in a starter with some upside, Garland instead of a guy like Penny for example.
nope…not ny…
and this is esactly why you grab a major piece like Tex if you have the chance, and work off of that.
every team has holes. Including last years Phils. You just beef up elsewhere to compensate, and patch and fill as best you can year to year.
I agree stickguy. My problem is I don’t see the mets doing that. If they signed a guy like Dunn or Tex then it would make me feel way better about any other moves they made because at least it would show some long-term thinking. But at this point signing either seems completely unlikely.
I hope you are wrong, but somehow think you aren’t.
I have had enough of 36 YO stop gaps. Pitching and OF!
Although I still wouldn’t mind seeing Randy J for 1year!
I would love Johnson for a year but it seems like he has ZERO interest in playing on the east coast. Let along in New York again.
Burnett is not going to give you that many more wins than Garland in the NL for their respective teams. Besides the Braves need a lot more than just SP.
I don’t like Garland that much but if his price fell to under 10 a year and a short contract having those sure thing innings in the #5 spot is an upgrade over what we have had there the last 3 years.
The thing is that there are no “front end starters” on the market besides Sabathia, who the Mets will not pay. Lowe and Burnett, along with Perez, are very good, but not front-end. (depending on your definition of “front-end”). I think Garland might be a nice fit here, too, but he’s not as good as Perez, and isn’t that what we need to replace to keep the rotation up to par with what we had last year? Do we want our starting rotation to take a step back?
The way I see it, we need to resign Ollie, or sign Lowe or Burnett, which looks increasingly unlikely.
Plus the bullpen needs big help, more than just a closer.
And a second baseman would be great if we can dump Castillo
I totally agree. The two big needs are closer and sp. That’s where the money (and possibly draft picks) needs to be spent. We can look for bargains with upside to improve the rest of the bp and other holes.
But where do you spend that money for SP. Just because we need it does not mean we should be stupid about it. I would rather rent an average car for a year than to go out and buy an overpriced piece of junk for 5 years.
Well, I wouldn’t call CC or Lowe pieces of junk, overpriced, maybe. But as a big market team, maybe overpaying for one big need might be necessary to get to the ws in 2009. Personally, I don’t like CC, but why not go hard after Lowe?
I just think that our rotation is in worse shape than people are thinking. A big part of our bullpen was due to the fact that getting 6 innings out of our starters was a rare occurrance (Santana excepted). But I do think that big changes also need to be made in the bullpen.
How about signing guys like Sheets or Prior? I know they are injury prone, but if healthy, they’re definitely “front end starters”.
sign Teixiera, K-Rod, Penny, Cordero Daryle Ward Eckstein/Loretta/Grudzielanek/Easley
trade Delgado for a #3 SP Garza would be great, Sonnanstine or Jackson would also work
trade Heilman and someone for Street
the mets give up a type A but what can you do we have to win
Reyes
Beltran
Teixiera
Wright
Church
Murphy/Tatis
Castillo/Eckstein
Schneider/Fatstro
Fatstro
Ward
Eckstein
Tatis
Chavez
Santana
Pelfrey
Garza
Penny
Maine
Stokes
Schoenewies
Feliciano
Smith
Cordero
Street
Rodriguez
Yes Schoeneweis and Feliciano are still on the team but with Cordero and Street here they would only be used against lefties where they will be fine.
Also Figueroa, Niese, Vargas, Parnell, Pagan, Evans etc. would be in AAA if needed
As I stated earlier today, we are not getting Garza period. Sonnanstine or Jackson I think could easily be had.
Informal Poll: Eckstein & Castillo, worst 2b platoon in the majors or worst 2b platoon EVER?
No, The worst 2nd base platoon in the majors every was Easley/A. Reyes, with the hobbled Luis Castillo occasionally thrown in.
Fwiw I’m to lazy to look up what this would cost but my ideal off-season, I’m as-suming we can’t afford to get Tex, would be something like Wood, trade for Street/sign Hoffman, sign Juan Cruz/Brandon Lyon, sign Dunn, as he’d be a long-term solution at first and could replace Delgado’s bat next year, or this year if they decided to package Delgado for something, and then look into starters like Randy Wolf, and possibly Grudenzky who’s name I’m sure I just misspelled.
The problem is of course we have two holes in the rotation and it looks like most of the options you won’t have to overpay for are going to be downgrades from what we had last year. And I don’t want anything to do with bringing Ollie back for 15 per. Maybe this off-season will teach the front office will stop drafting middle relievers and start drafting and developing our own starters.
I forgot about Penny, I’d look into him too. I actually wouldn’t have a problem slightly overpaying for Lowe, he’s an extreme ground ball pitcher and with the way Citi is looking we may need that although with the right side of our infield it might be an issue anyway, as long as we didn’t have to overpay for more than 3 years.
the years is key.
From what Matt has posted earlier, I think Lowe is more concerned about $ per year rather than the number of years.
hope you and matt are right….
the request for lowes services room is getting a little bit crowded
It’s true. I really did not expect Lowe to be this popular. But he would be a good choice form the Mets’ #2-3 starter for 3 years.
Then, I think Omar can go out and sign more high risk/reward type of guys that wouldn’t cost much like Prior or Mulder
I think the problem with Lowe will be does he want to pitch in NY more than the years/money. It really will depend on who else gives him offers.
i dont see how we can get Lowe. He’d be a perfect #2 SP but i dont see how we get him at 3 years unless its 3 years 52 mil
also i know the Mets dont want to spend but signing guys like Wolf and Garland just make things worse.
either pay for the best players or let the young guys pitch. giving Garland and/or Wolf multi-year deals is a mistake waiting to happen not to mention the fact that multi-year deals for middle relievers rarely ever work out well
We can afford Tex if we trade Delgado for a #5 starter. It would only add 8 million in payroll and that’s easily what we would spend for a #5 starter on the FA market.
I agree with Cerrone for the most part on what the Mets should do. I would look to trade Heilman, Mike Carp, and maybe a 2nd prospect to Colorado for Street. Sign K-Rod. However, I want no part of Jon Garland. Instead I would try to get Andy Sonnanstine from T-Bay for Ryan Church and a mid level prospect. Then I would trade Castillo and Schoenweis for Jose Guillen and sign Orlando Hudson. Finally to compete with Jon Niese for the 5th starters spot I would sign a Freddy Garcia or Carl Pavano.
Your not serious right?
Yes, I’m serious. What do you have a problem with?
All of it
It’s not terrible. I don’t want Hudson and we could get better value out of one of the short term solutions at 2B but some of that is feasible.
Why does everyone make a big deal about draft picks. I can understand if it was the NBA or NFL draft, but there are 1000 rounds to the MLB draft. How many really good players are drafted in MLB, in the 1st few rounds. I just think the whole idea of not signing a type A becuase of the loss of draft pick is really overrated.
Well the draft picks are very important … if you know how to draft. The Red Sox draft well … the Rays draft well. The Mets … not so much.
Right, but my point is are the 1st round picks really that important. Most of the great talent comes later in the rounds. And like you said, those teams that draft well im sure can draft well with a l.imited number of picks.
I would say yes, they are that important … but in the Mets case it probably doesn’t matter as much since they don’t use the 1st round picks so well.
This is really false.
That’s not to say they shouldn’t worry about the picks … they should draft better.
Mets do a decent job in the 1st round, i guess,
LAstings Milledge
Phillip Humber
Mike PElfrey
DAvid Wright
Aarron Heilman
Scott KAzmir
So i guess i am wrong.
I meant the fact that most great talent comes in later rounds is false. Plenty of teams who are great drafters find great talent in the later rounds but teams, like us, who seem to be more about low risk players are usually only going to find the best players in either the very early rounds or the very very late rounds when we do start to take an occasional flyer.
This is coming from MLB Trade Rumors
Over the years, many quality players have been drafted as the result of free agent compensation. Recent examples include Conor Jackson, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Glen Perkins, Huston Street, Phil Hughes, Clay Buchholz, Jacoby Ellsbury, Joba Chamberlain, Colby Rasmus, and Ian Kennedy.
First round picks are very important, especially they are regarded as top prospects.
Your right, i did say i was wrong
David Wright was also free agent compensation for Mike Hampton.
I keep forgetting the other dark horse for the #5 spot in the rotation.
Vargas.
Based on his AFL stuff, and some comments, if they (as likely will happen) go into ST with an open spot for the 5 hole, he could end up emerging as the winner.
Would not surprise me if they can fill in 1 rotation spot with someone good (or at least viable) like Sheets, Wolf, Garland, Ollie, that unless someone else falls into their lap, they will just sort it out in the spring. Either an internal guy steps up and wins the job, or they pick up someone else.
Hey, if they can get the 5 hole filled with a young, cheap guy, more money to put into the Tex piggy bank!
Add sheets, wood, Guardado, Street and Tex. The rest is gravy and stuffing.
claudio?
No, the other one I think. Jason? The lefty they got from the Marlins that had arm trouble.
JAson, i think
You mean the one they traded for Mat lidstrom? Ow yehhhhhhh i know him!!!
I think he means Jason.
I think you are right about Vargas. The guy was a good young prospect and did well in his first rushed year to the majors then struggled. He very well could have turned things around. The trade for him and Bostick as young LH is still on the verdict block and may not be as one sided as we think. Both of those guys are still young and are LH, sometimes LH take longer to develop.
Stickguy, I agree. However, going into the season counting on Vargas or Niese as anything more than depth at Buffalo would be dangerous IMO. I’m fine signing Pedro as #5, so that when he breaks down you can bring Niese or Vargas up for an extended cup of coffee.
For all of those who think the Yankees will sign Tex, Ken Davidoff doesn’t think so. If they sign CC they won’t be able to afford Tex and will go after Lowe or Pettitte.
So besides the Angels, who exactly would be the Mets competition. And the Mets can afford him. Check out the estimated payroll for 09 on tex4mets.wordpress.com
Sign Tex!
Have you written to Omar yet? I think you should, he needs to be informed.
I have faith in Omar, he’s a smart GM. I’m sure Tex is on his radar. The reason we don’t hear about it could be because they don’t want to offend Delgado if it doesn’t happen, he’s waiting it out for the price to drop for lack of interest, and it’s only early December.
Case, i think the sleeper team that has shown interest in Tex is the Nats. They could afford him, he is from the area,
I don’t see him wanting to spend 8 years in Washington.
Nah, check out Jerry Crasnick’s piece on the nationals. I posted it on tex4mets.wordpress.com
Case, lets say CC signs with the angels, or giants, or whoever, since it really does not look like he wants to pitch in ny. Than you would have to say the yanks will land Tex. Right?
No. They will go after 2 SP either way. They need SP more than they need Tex. They have a bunch of players that can play 1B if needed. I see them getting something like Lowe and Sheets or Perez.
That’s a big IF, since they haven’t offered anything yet. Ultimately, he’ll sign where the money is at, especially if there’s a huge disparity in the offers.
Plus, I know Cashman has made some dumbhead moves, but after their pitching last season, you’d think he’s learned his lesson that he needs pitching in a very bad way.
what do you mean the yankees can’t afford both. they have unlimitied money???????
Doubt it? They are a business. They have a budget. They can’t spend on CC and two other expensive pitchers while giving Tex at least 20 million per year. That’s at least 75 million and they still need a CF and a Catcher.
This Tex thing is really bothering me. It just makes too much sense to me and I don’t understand why that is not our main target. The market for him is not as large as the SP and he would completely change this team and the direction that it is going for 2009 and the future. I have no problem with giving him 6/130 and 2 option years at 25 million each. That would bring the contract total up to a 8/180 million dollar deal. Who is going to match that?
TRS, i totally agree, Can you imagine having Tex, Beltran, Wright, and Reyes together for many many years. ALong with Johan, Pelf, and Maine.
I think Omar really likes Delgado as his cleanup hitter. I hope I’m wrong.
I am not so sure about it. What I can say is that if Delgado is our 2009 1B then he will be our 2010 1B as well, mark my words.
Definetly.
The funny thing about Delgado is that his great second half last year will prob cost us our future..which is TEX along with the wright beltran and reyes..I can picture Tex in a red sox jersey winning series after series and it makes me furious
See the Tex thing I can almost understand because of cost. What’s going to bother me is them not having any interest in Dunn more because of him technically filling the same role, although obviously he’s not the player Tex is, and being cheaper and not costing a draft pick. I can understand if they think Tex’s cost is going to keep them from filing other holes, of course this is only if they actually spend the money and fill those other holes adequately. But I don’t see how you can ignore both Tex AND Dunn.
How much do you think Dunn would cost and how many years? He will be cheaper than Tex, but he won’t be THAT cheap.
but he wont cost a pick either…
Tex, for 8+ years, or Dunn for 3 or 4 years, plus a pick? Thats not a hard decision. Pick or no Pick, Tex is the better invesment Hands down
Tex will cost a pick and Dunn will not cost a pick. I’m really curious to find out what Dunn would want. He’s same age as Tex and IF Tex signs a long term deal, I’m pretty sure Dunn will be looking for long term deal as well.
I know thats what im saying, Tex for 8+ years, or Dunn (and save a pick)) Its not a hard decision.
I agree… I would luv Tex… it would be a great way to open the new stadium and help make up for no true #2 SP… Id luv to get a #2 but hate to overpay for Lowe. I would take a chance with Sheets though, he might fall into Omar’s hi risk/hi reward model that omar seems to luv…
it’s still early and things wont heat up until next week…
given:
we will get a closer
we will be stuck with castillo at 2b
the rest will have to play out…
personally I’d Like
Sheets(short term deal)
Tex(prolly wont happen) if not then Dunn(the LF platoon is scary)
Gina, I SO agree with all of this…maybe I am not getting my thoughts across well, but my thing for Ibanez is just thinking we are going to (hopefully) spend a ton on pitching, a starter and two serious relievers, and we will not have enough left for Tex or Dunn (if he costs more than I think).
I hope I am wrong and we fill all of the holes and they outspend what we expect. Maybe while Omar is negotiating in Vegas, Jeff W will win a megabucks slot jackpot…..
“Kingman and Ibanez sittin’ in a tree… ”
Just kidding.
LOL.
From what I’ve heard, Boras will not deal with options and I don’t think Wilpons are about to give out another 100+MM contracts.
I agree with you that Tex would have a huge impact on the Mets. But I think Omar has a set budget this winter. Plus, it’s not like Yankees where 80+MM is comming off their payroll.
The Mets always have a set budget!!
I think it will take more then a 6 year 130 million contract to get him here. The Angles would have no probelm matching that. Hell if that is all he wanted the Yanks would sign him and CC.
To get him to even listen to the Mets they would have to offer him 8 years. The guy is looking for a ten year deal that is insane.
Well, when you get traded as much as he does i would want a 10 year deal too lol. Some stability would be nice.
I’m in 100%
I’m curious, if the Mets were able to sign Tex, how would you guys and girls fill out the rest of the team? I’d like to do a salary analysis on tex4mets based on your suggestions.
Well if they happened to sign Tex, Im sure they would then have to trade for a closer instead of signing one, so say maybe Putz at 5 mill this year and 8 mill next. They could also then sign a middle reliever to about 3 mill per season.
plus if they sign Tex, they have more to trade (Delgado, and of course his salary, along with prospects now blocked at 1B).
I think the Mets can get very creative with SPs this off season. There are many guys that can fill #4-5 in the rotation other than Garland. Heck, I’d sign Looper over Garland and Looper may come cheaper than Garland.
There are many guys that the Mets can take a chance on. Guys like Mulder, Prior, Pettitte (?), Wolf, etc.
I would just as soon give heilmann a shot in the 5 hole than tie up lots of years and $$ on Garland.
Hey, if you are going to get average, might as well get it cheaper!
Then take the 8mill+ year you save and put it toward Tex.
I am big on Tex you might notice. Make up the budget hit elsewhere.
Grab LT core studs when you can (they don’t come around that often) and build off of that. Much better long term plan than just getting (usually) overpriced mediocrity.
Look, I would rather have Tex at 1B and Heilmann or Vargas in the rotation than Dunn at 1B and Garland in the rotation, since the 2 options probably cost the same amount per year.
Agree, stickguy… but then if you keep Heilman for the rotation, you lose one of your big trading chips. Therein lies the rub…
Personally, I think Garland’s game/makeup would be a better match in the National League- he is a smart pitcher and an innings eater. A lot of people are bashing the idea of Garland in the rotation, but I think it will mean 50 innings less of overtaxing the bullpen.
People seem to forget that around July, the Mets pen had a 25 inning scoreless streak, and almost all of their regulars came close to breaking Mets records for appearances and innings out of the pen.
Maybe starters who can go 7 consistently behind a solid offense will work out well- I’d rather K-Rod and Garland than Lowe and Hoffman…
Wiz, the innings eating thing is overblown. The reason Garland stays in games so long is because of the DH. If you give up 6 runs in 5 innings in the AL, you may stay in to do precisely that, “eat innings.” But in the NL, you’re removed for a pinch hitter. Blanton became a 5+ inning pitcher once he went to the Phillies.
Like i said above…
Just imagine Many Many Years of
Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Tex in your lineup, With
Johan, Pelf, Maine in the rotation. The Mets can build a dynasty if Omar Can get Tex.
I think it is time to for you to give up on the whole Tex thing. Although he would be awsome to have in a mets uniform I do not even think he is on the Mets radar. Pitching, pitching and more pitching is….
that appears to be true but If Sheets or Lowe is out of the picture then instead of bringing in average pitchers let young guys play and build for the future.
I’d rather see the mets with a great future than a borderline playoff team with no hope at a WS
if the Mets can sign Teixiera their offensive problems for the future besides 2B are gone. All they have to do is find someone to play until Flores and Martinez are ready whenever that will be.
I would say martinez everyday in 2010-11 and Flores in 2012.
you would think at least one of Murphy, Carp, and Evans can be a productive starter at the MLB level and can fill LF while Martinez replaces Church in RF. All that leaves is C and 2B which can be filled easily over the next few years.
Santana, Pelfrey, Niese (not right away) Maine will all be part of the rotation for at least a few years with Parnell or Vargas maybe and Holt coming up.
K-Rod, Street leaves the mets with a solid SU and great CP and middle relievers always come and go.
After signing Teixeria and K-Rod all the Mets need are some role players like Eckstein and a short term #2 SP. Penny could probably be had on a 1 year deal and Delgado for Sonnanstine/Jackson will be fine for a year. Penny leaves and then we sign a #2 SP next year like Harden, Duscherer?, Lackey,
EXACTLY!!!!!!!
3rds on that. exactly the lt plan to follow to win now and many years to come
I have a question. Gina, Real, Stick, maybe you guys can answer this.
If we trade Heilman and Evans/who ever, to the Rockies for Street, then who do we move for Sonnastine/Jackson? I know the Rays wanted Heilman so, if we take him away, then who do they want that we can afford to giive?
P.S. Sheets or Wolf over Garland…….please!
Oleo, I like your post (minus Eckstein, of course), but by 2011 and 2012 some guys will either have run out of or be running out of arb-eligible years. Guys like Maine, Pelf, etc. Just food for thought, that payroll will significantly increase when our “cheap” guys today become “expensive” guys later.
Matt,
What is the obsession with Jon Garland? He gives up tons of hits, he strikes no one out, and he had a 5 ERA last season. Yes he pitches 200 innings but as a 4 starter I don’t like it.
I think the better option is to re-sign OIlie because it doesn’t look like we’re getting Lowe or any other starter on the market.
GARLAND ISNLT A REALLY GOOD FIT.
He stinks.
I know Drayton McLane has said that Oswalt is off the table, but it seems that the Astros need to move salary. Carlos Lee is is very intriguing with his bat and average defensive ability although his contract is huge. But Oswalt is relatively affordable, so maybe we can pull off a blockbuster around FMart, Parnell, and Heilman (I would prefer not to give up Niese but would if put to the test). I know it’s a longshot but any chance of the Astros considering parting with these two contracts?