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The Mets are still considering Oliver Perez, ‘but they are still far apart on the dollars,’ said SI.com’s Jon Heyman, during an on-air appearance with WFAN in New York.
According to Heyman, Perez is seeking a five-year deal worth roughly $70 million.
Heyman believes Omar Minaya’s other two choices are either free-agent starter Randy Wolf or Jon Garland.
Speaking of starting pitchers…
Free-agent RHP John Smoltz is considering the Mets, Red Sox and Tigers, as well as a return to the Braves, according to Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe.
The Boston Herald reports the Red Sox have requested Smoltz’s medical records.
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definately in on smoltz for a 1-year deal with incentives for big money if he’s healthy and effective
3/36 w/ incentives and 4th yr option. Give him the K-Rod treatment Omar.
In other words, we are going to have slim pickins for two starting spots… FABULOUS!
Not sure how healthy Smoltz will be…
Wolf, eh… Garland, eh…
I’m not very optimistic for 2009… Maybe they will go after Manny as we might have to outslug teams to win…
Lol @ at that asking price.
Smotlz will never be a Met…I would be completley shocked.
Santana, Pelfrey, Perez, Maine and Smoltz wouldn’t be terrible…
Gina, maybe, that’s the Yankee asking price. I’m sure there are more realistic prices for other teams.
smoltzy would be weird in a met uniform but if the price is reasonable i wouldnt mind…
lol smoltz vs glavine…just the other way around team wise
He is not gonna sign before Burnett or Lowe, so we gotta wait on this one. If he wants 4 years, welcome back…if not, it’s been nice knowing you.
4 years is still a lot for an inconsistent headcase. But he is young and he has had success in NY , so I don’t think its that bad of an idea. He’s better than Garland and Wolf.
Stupid Boras. He just ruins it for every fan out there.
5/70 is crazy. More like 3/39 with option at 4th year.
I pray that Omar doesn’t sign Garland or Wolf to a long term deal. I’d rather see guys like Penny or Prior to 1 year deal.
I don’t view John Smoltz as a starting pitcher in 2009 considering the surgery he is coming off…
He’d be just another Pedro for the 2009 team… Don’t need that…
I always thought that Ollie was a big game pitcher. Then I saw the last 2 games he pitched in 2008 and realized he wasn’t…
I wonder if Smoltz would be open to going into the bullpen to extend his career again
Smoltz — feh. We’ve already had one ex-over the hill Brave. We don’t need another.
Sorry, I’m posting this again, as I think it’s in a dead thread.
wadehead9 says:
December 10th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Interesting wrinkle for all the Tex fans out there. There is absolutely zero truth to this, I haven’t even heard it as a rumor. I’m just trying to dream big with my favorite franchise.
I don’t think the Mets are going to sign Tex - as much as I’d like them to - for a reasonable price. I’m not sure we should lock up $200M on that guy. So, I think for 2009 Delgado makes some sense.
So what I’m thinking is, I’d like the Mets to play out 2009, get what they can from/out of Delgado. Then around next year’s trading Deadline, or the 2009 offseason, provided the Padres are still going where they are, I think it would make a ton of sense for the Mets to try to get ahold of Adrian Gonzalez.
By then the Mets might have a better picture of Fmart if he has a healthy campaign, and could package him in a deal for the Padres - who need an outfield as badly as the Mets need a bullpen.
Thoughts?
NO! Remember the Glavine debacle? We don’t need another X-Brave “ace” on our team. He is old and washed up, like Glavine. Do us a favor, Smoltz, and sign with the Braves. While we are talking about this, why not, sign Hampton? He was the man in 2000 :}
Smoltz will not come to the Mets. He’s just floating rumors to get his price up.
Ollie is 27 years old now. He’s probably looking for 4 year deal which puts him at 31. After which Boras will demand a big contract. I think there will be some teams willing to give him 4/52. I’m not sure if he’s worth that.
No Ollie at that price. I’m thinking trades for starting pitchers are our best bet.
Now wait a second here Omar. You really are
starting to make me nervous. Smoltz,Pedro,
Wolf??? Haven’t we learned anything?
Are we really gonna depend on guys who can’t stay on the field to help us win a Championship?
Smotlz. Zero chance he signs with the Mets. Id onlt sign him if he wanted to pitch the 8th inning. In which case. Our pen would be pretty damn good. BUT not gonna happen.
On Tex, reports are that the O’s are wlling to go 9 years $20M per and the Nats could go to 10 years, $20M per…
That’s insane…
Ollie Perez looks like Cy Young compared to what’s out there. Probably makes sense now to bring him back.
jimyager
One game(the last games he pitched as a Met) is not a debacle. Forget wins and losses, Glavine’s E.R.A was in the Mid threes through out his time with the Mets. He pitched very well on crappy teams 2003, 2004, 2005. In 2006,2007 he pitched even better.
We’re stuck for improving our rotation because the Yankees are going to sign Lowe and Burnett/Sheets…
It’s insane…
As soon as the Yankees get over their diarrhea of the wallet sydrom and things get reasonable, that asking price on Ollie will come way down.
That said, 5 years for his age and rleative durability is not crazy. I would definitely go 4.
Smoltz makes ZERO sense. Aside from Atlanta, I could only see him considering the Tigers sicne he is from there. Like Glavine, he is floating the Mets to up the Braves price…unlike Glavine, he won’t get backed into signing here.
I think smoltz would be great leader for the Mets to get. Signing him to a 1 year deal as a solid reliever is something Minaya should look into.
i would give oliver perez a four year 48 million dollar 4/48…. that seems fair.. but with todays market someones goona give him a 4 year 14 million with a fifth year option.
Ugh…
The 5th starter will be John Smoltz or Pedro Martinez or Jon Niese. That’s ugly.
And if the other starter we get is Ollie at an inflated price?
This starting staff needs help. Why are we settling?
Why can’t the Mets go for Burnett or Sheets or Lowe? This is the 2nd richest team in baseball. So the Yankees are going to get CC, Lowe, Sheets, maybe Burnett, and then either Manny or Teixeira, and we’re supposed to do jumping jacks because we signed a closer for a measly 37 million? That can’t be it. Yes, Santana is a bonified ace, but Pelfrey may slot in as a #3 or #4 this year (no way he is going to repeat the 2nd half of ‘08), and Maine is a question mark after injury. That leaves us with 3 starters, possibly even 2- and so HOW is this team not in the running for a big starter? You’re telling me they are going to sign John Garland (a #5 or at best), and go with a merry go round (AGAIN, for the 3rd year in a row) in the 5th spot? Am I crazy, or all you people just drinking the Wilpon koolaid, led by Cerrone? You need to sign one big starter- that is the Minimum!!! This is a joke, I can’t take this team or Freddie Coupons anymore. The Yankees are going to dole out almost $300 million in new contracts, and looks like we will dole out maybe 50-60 million at most (K-Rod plus one other SP stiff). What a joke! Why is this not being talked about more? I can’t take it.
I’d give Ollie 4yrs at 14million a year (4yrs for 56)… i think that, that is a very fair contract for Ollie with the Mets overpaying a little… but then again Id rather overpay then sign Garland or Wolf…
glavine did ok, but we all remember the last game he pitched for us and what he said afterwards.. smoltz might do good for us, but i just think he said that to scare the braves off a lil.. nothing to that..
ollie here’s 3 years 40 millions with an option for a 4th year and sheets, here’s 2 years and 30 millions with an option for a 3rd based on innings pitch that can come to a total of 44 millions. whoever signs first go with it.. and i’m really hoping is sheets!!
Great…so we’ll fix the pen, yet have a joke of a rotation and still no power bat in LF, nor a legit 2B.
Ugh.
The O’s and Nats can afford Tex but we can’t?
how bout both?
besides Lowe and Sheets there is not a single pitcher i would get for more than a 2 year deal.
Santana
Pelfrey
Garland/Perez (1-2 year deal)
Maine
Pedro/Penny/Niese
i can live with that if Street and Cordero or someone of that caliber are in the bullpen and Manny is in LF
remember if we are in position to make a run at the WS a top notch starter is always available at the deadline…
mistermet…
I agree with you… I don’t want to spend like Steinbrenner but I really think this team has a great urgency for a solid starting pitcher…
Then we can coax Maddux out of retirement and then we can say we got all three of the Three Amigos that broke our hearts in the 90’s…all of them way past their prime. no thanks Smotzy
5 years and 70 mln is a joke. Give Niese a shot and sign Wolf.
I would rather give Lowe 70/4 then offer Perez anything more than 4 years, preferably the 4th year being an option, 12-13 million per.
Gina: I second that!
Perez is still a HUGE risk based on his obvious inconsistency. 5 years? That’s insane. He hasn’t earned that.
no chance Smoltz is coming and no chance Perez will be back
I would be fine with Wolf or Garland, just get one of them for god sakes
rather have Sheets though for fewer yrs…….they should really look at that
theres no way i would pay that much for ollie the most is 3/32.
Let’s try to talk Greg Maddux out of retirement too.
Hey Ollie, you can have KRod’s deal (3/37, 4th yr option @14m) with starter’s incentives. Take it or leave it.
I like Ollie, but he can drive you nuts. I was kinda hoping he’d go away, but it looks like he may the most reasonable. I still say we might be trading for a young SP and signing a guy like Wolf to gap-fill.
The problem is what pieces do we have to trade for a young starting pitcher?
Or at least a decent young starting pitching.
Bye Ollie! Give me Garland 2 years w/option. Smoltz is interesting? Sign Pedro cheap.
Santana
Pelfrey
Maine
Garland
Pedro/Niese
this is the problem with the mets thinking: they often sign two-second rate players for a salary that equals a first-rate player.
not that they never get the big fish…they often do that and do it well, but they never take it to that next level.
santana
sabathia ($23m per)
maine
pelfrey
niese ($200,000)
is better and less than:
santana
ollie ($15m per)
maine
pelfrey
garland ($10m per)
which is likely to be the mets rotation if they don’t just go with lima and chan ho park
People you’re kidding yourselves. The reason the Os and Nats can sign Tex and the dodgers can sign Manny and we can’t is that we already have a HUGE payroll and not a lot is coming off of the books this year. The yankees are the yankees sure, but even they are reporting that their payroll will be less than it was last year.
Omar would you rather have Ollie for 4 years 50- 60 million or Ben Sheets 3years 36 million. Answer= Ben Sheets. He’s a boatload better than Ollie.
what about andy s. from the rays? i think he has a LOT of promise.
Totally agree (though we don’t have the medical report) I’d love to see the Mets roll the dice on Sheets.
Yeah, LGM, but if that happens we definitely need to trade for sonnenstine.
anyone know what happens to big pelf after this season? doesn’t his contract expire?
ok, if we someway somehow sign sheets and get in a trade sonnanstine i’d be happy.. but i will be super happy if we get TEX!!
I would not mind Smoltz as a setup guy if he is willing… but I am pressed to think he will depart the braves..
In their defense, the Yankees do have Abreu, Pudge, Mussina, Pettitte, Giambi, and Pavano coming off the books….then again their payroll was nearly $100MM higher than the Mets to start, so that’s not really an excuse to replace it all.
Pelfrey has not even hit arbitration yet.
I don’t think Smoltz’s interest is genuine, but can we stop the obsession over age? Maybe I am nuts but wasn’t a 46-year old a critical part of the reigning World Champions’ rotation?
Dude - we dont need Tex. We need 2 starting pitchers. (Sheets and Wolf) and 1 more arm in pen. We are not the Yankees. We cant go out and spend 300 million in a single offseason.
there are a lot of variable but check this out
CC - 117-73 in 254 starts Age 28
D Lowe 126-107 in 255 starts Age 35
AJ Burnett - 87-76 in 211 starts Age 32
O Perez - 55-60 in 174 starts Age 27
J Garland - 106-89 in 255 starts Age 29
R Wolf - 90-78 in 241 starts Age 32
I think Sonnastine has a lot of promise. I just don’t see us putting together a package to get him. The Rays are reportedly trying to sign Bradley so expecting them to take a package built around Delgado is likely out.
pelf only has around two years of ML experience…we control him for another 4
get wolf!!!
hot stove chef, tex will only cost 8 million more than Delgado is costing this year. And only 4 million more per than what we were paying him most of the time he was here. I don’t see how you can say that amount of money is an acceptable explanation for why we’re not going after him.
Of all of the starters linked to the mets or mentioned on this board, I would consider two tiers of starters:
#2/#3
Ollie-Max 4 years $55 mill, i mean the guy is about to enter his prime, if he hones that control hes an ace
OR
Sheets- Max 2 years $32 mil
#5
Pedro-incentive laden 1 year deal
Smoltz-same as Pedro, but the idea makes me sicker than the Glavine idea did 5 years ago
Garland-nice fit, but only for a 2 year deal/ $20 mil
Sonnanstine-would be perfect in the right deal
Jackson-eh, walks way too many guys
Randy Wolf- fine but hes got to be a #5 and paired with someone else
Marquis/another fringe starter to compete with Niese that would settle for being a long-man-Fine as long as we have a quality #2
In other words, they need to get either a stud (Sheets) to pitch behind Johan and someone to compete with Niese or Pedro OR They need to go for Ollie and another proven starter for the 5th spot
thanks #62 - i was a little fuzzy on the ruling there -
en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_transactions
64 ) ‘tex will only cost 8 million more than Delgado is costing this year’
But we are already paying Delgado for 2009 and if we trade him for anybody useful we will likely be picking up some of his salary. We aren’t getting Tex. His is going to get more than 20M a year for 10 years. I would rather keep Delgado for 1year and be able to sign a top free agent next off season or make a move at the trading deadline.
TEX is not going to help bring a championship if we have no pitching…
It’s this simple. The Mets need Sheets or Ollie. Lowe is a possibility if his price drops. Pedro and Smoltz cannot be considered, IMO. The last thing we need is injury, especially if we sign Sheets. So, Garland, Wolf, Jackson, and Sonnanstine are the best bets at #5.
Much rather have Garland than Wolf. Garland has thrown at least 190 innings since 2002; Wolf hasn’t even hit 140 once since 2003. Garland is 3 years younger too. Granted, Garland isn’t top of the rotation material, but he can be a solid #3 or #4. I’d also love to see them take a run at Sheets.
Would it be possible to get Sheets and Garland? Sheets could provide upside potential, and Garland will give us 33 starts and 200+ innings.
If we can get Sheets, Garland, and Street then I will be happy going into next season. I don’t even need Garland, but it would be nice to have a #5 pitcher who we can count on all season.
I don’t understand how the Mets can sign Sheets with 2 year. There are lots and lots of teams that will offer 3-4 years for Sheets.
2 years will not get it done with Sheets. It’s gotta be at least 3-4 years 13-15 per. Even at 15 mil per year, Sheets is much better than Ollie. We just have to cross our fingers that he doesn’t get injured.
Pelfrey signed a major league contract that expires after next year. Im not sure how this works, but I think he is eligible for arbitration sooner because of that. Hes definitely under control for 4 more years at least
If they cant get sheets for 2 years I wouldnt touch him
Garland wouldn’t be bad, for sure. However, the person I’d best feel at #5 is Sonnanstine, followed by Garland. If these guys are available, I say go for Sheets. But if we can only get someone like Wolf/Jackson/(G-d forbid)Pedro or Smoltz, then I think we should avoid Sheets.
One Day This Team Will Kill Me, all minor leaguers do that when they’re added to the roster, it doesn’t make a difference he’s still under control for 4-5 years.
and twofour44, no one is saying tex instead of pitching. we’re saying either spend on tex, or spend on pitching. right now it looks like they plan on spending on neither.
krod I agree that 2 injury prone starters is a bad idea. but if we did sign a wolf/pedro/smoltz who is our #2?
Personally im fine with bringing Ollie back with an injury risk in the 5th spot, but we need someone of his caliber:
Johan
Pelf
Ollie
Maine
Garland/Wolf/Pedro/Smoltz in that order
If we dont we are going to have to sign 2 of those lower tier pitchers:
Johan
Pelf
Maine
Wolf
Garland
Garland is absolutely not a solid 3 or 4. He’s a #5, and not even a very strong 5.
I dont think the rays will get bradley and I feel confident a package built around delgado would get andy and if we can sign sheets to a 2 year deal maybe a vesting option for a 3rd year then we could def get tex
johan
pelf
sheets
maine
andy s.
not a bad roatation at all and have niese and vargas as your #6 and #7 and you also have an extremely young core in johan pelf maine andy s tex reyes wright sheets murph church. I mean whats not to love about this. If we can get street and sign cordero we would be in a really good position in 09
Gina you are right about minor leaguers signing new contracts when they are promoted, but Pelfrey signed one when he was drafted, there is a difference. I think he is arbitration eligible after next season because of this
retire17, I’m glad you’re confident about it, but there’s really zero reason for anyone else to think ti’s likely.
Is there a more hated person in all of sports than Scott Boras?
One day.
No it’s not, all players sign contracts when they are drafted too. It’s basically just a signing bonus. It has nothing to do with anything now.
Yeah Sheets is better but he’ll be like Pedro, spending most of his time with this team throwing off flat ground
Yeah Sheets is better - but he’ll be like Pedro, spending most of his time with this team throwing off flat ground
Gina you are right about the arbitration thing, hes not eligible until he has 3 years of ml service time like everyone else, but a major league contract cant be equated to a bonus, there are differences, like Pelf has been on the 40 man roster since he was drafted.
Google minor leaguer arbitration eligibility and click the first link, it links to another article by keith law that explains it
LetsGoMets123, i have to agree & disagree. Ben Sheets may be a better allaround pitcher then Ollie, but only when he is healthy. His health has been his achilles heel over his entire career. But Ollie’s stuff is down right nasty - when its on and yes that is the question…how often will it be on.
I’d rather see Ollie cause if he gets on a hot streak he’s as unhittable as they come. But 5y - 70M for someone inconsistent is hard to swallow.
Gina says:
December 10th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Garland is absolutely not a solid 3 or 4. He’s a #5, and not even a very strong 5.
With all due respect, Gina, please show me a #4 or 5 starter on any team that has gone 60-38 over the last four years, averaged 209 IP, a +16.5 ERA against league average. Oh yeah and he won’t turn 30 until the end of Sept.
Smoltz?
please no, didnt we learn from Glavine?
As for this Sheets is always injured myth…..
over the last seven years Average Games Started
Garland 32 Game Starts
Sabathia 31 Game Starts
Sheets 28 Game Starts
Burnett 23 Game Starts
Yet Sabathia’s a ‘horse’ and Sheets is ‘always injured’……hmmmm
One day at a time,
we weren’t talking about the major league contract he signed when he was added to the roster we’re taking about the one he signed when he was drafted. That’s not a major league contract, it’s a minor league contract. And Pelfrey hasn’t even had a full year on the 40 man roster yet. He has 156 days.
Err not 156 days I read that wrong, he has a little over a year but that’s it.
Wins and losses are irrelevant. Santana was below .500 for a major portion of the year and it had nothing to do with his pitching ability. An comparing innings in the AL and NL is different because in the AL team’s aren’t going to have to take a pitcher out to pinch hit for him.
And 16.5 above league average? Are you talking about his ERA+? Or something else.
ERA+….and Santana was under .500 for exactly 6 days this season(April12-18)…wins and losses obviously are not a be all end all, but saying Garland isn’t even a strong #5 pitcher is baseless…
Ugh. Garland makes my stomach turn. He allows far too many hits and therfore has a terrible WHIP, his K/BB ratio is rotten. Sure his career ERA is ever so slightly below league average. He’s really had only one good season, and that was 2005. Every other year but that does not a $12 million dollar pitcher make, and that’s what Garland made last year. The Mets should be able to do better if they’re going to commit $12 million/year.
They can do better, his name is Ben Sheets.
Garland’s ERA+ was 91 last year. As in well below league average. Over the last 3 years he’s had an average ERA+ of 102.6, that’s not exactly that high above league average.
Have to say that I’d welcome Smoltz. He’s got experience in the pen, and even though he’s got one WS ring, that’s it–one. As much as a professional as he is, he wants more. I’d absolutely love to put him into the pen and see what he could do as a seventh- or eighth-inning guy.
So you chose the last 3 years, I chose the last 4…super…stats are fun!
Ollie’s ERA+ over the last four years 89.75 .
Also my mistake, Santana was at .500 until July.
Sign Ben Sheets…
Trade for Snell from the Pirates (Heilman Evans and a lesser pitcher…Jason Vargas, Dyland Owen, Gee?)
If you choose not trade for Snell, then take a flyer on a guy like Freddy Garcia or roll the dice resigning Pedro to a friendly incentive based contract for the #5 spot
Sign Juan Cruz for 8th inning
Sign one of the Guardado, Cordero projects for the pen on a make good deal
Sign Ibanez
Trade Castillo, Church and Parnell to the Yankers for Cano (total pipedream)
Garland is durable, a World Champion, and in his limited postseason appearances he flourished. Can’t say any of those things about Ollie. In order I’d prefer Sheets, Garland, Ollie.
Evan if you use the last 4 years I don’t see where you’re getting 16.5 from, not to say you’re wrong I could be doing it wrong.
Also mistermet, despite the fact we seem to disagree on Garland I agree with your order. Sheets, Garland, Perez.
Also, fwiw IMO ERA+ isn’t a very good indicator of pitchers anyway, since it’s based mostly on ERA which is flawed in itself.
Almost any stat is flawed and can be manipulated, that’s what makes baseball and the long offseason fun! I just see Sheets get this ‘oft-injured’ label and feel it’s entirely overblown. I see Garland as a young workhorse who is a cure for my every fifth day heart-attack that is Ollie, steady not spectacular. Lastly, (and perhaps leastly!) I see Ollie as the Jekyll/Hyde third option who is at least as likely to last 4innings and walk 6 as he is to give the Mets a real chance to win.
Seemingly the dollar amounts being bandied about are about equal for the three, so based on that
Omar, get me some clean Sheets!
Funny, as I was typing I get to hear Omar on Francesa stating he’s going to make an offer to Ollie…..hopefully like he made an offer to three closers at once, he’ll throw offers to other starters simultaneously.
Bartolo Colon?….anyone?….Bueller?…I kid because I love…