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Jon Heyman of SI.com believes the Cubs 
and Omar Minaya are discussing a trade that would send starting pitcher Jason Marquis to the Mets.
Heyman feels the Mets should send reliever Scott Schoeneweis to the Cubs, who are offering to pay a portion of Marquis’s $9–million salary in 2009, after which he will be a free agent.
According to published reports, over the last day or so, the Mets rejected a deal from the Cubs that would have swapped Marquis for Aaron Heilman, who was traded last night to the Mariners for J.J. Putz.
The 30–year-old Marquis has won at least 10 games and pitched at least 190 innings in each of the last five seasons, while posting a 4.58 ERA, during which opponents hit .261 against him.
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:o Uh-oh…
Not interested especially if it’s clearing room for Peavy to go to the Cubs….he’s also very expensive!
I mentioned this trade in an earlier post and I literally pulled it from my rear end
As long as we don’t trade Murphy Evans F-Mart Neise or Parnell then sure.
Hmm…
no.
marquis is awful. i want nothing to do with him
marquis may not be great, but unfortunately, we can’t have ace pitchers in all 5 of our starting pitching positions. He would be a decent enough #5 until Neise is ready to come up, and then could slot in as a long man, if need be.
Wow for Sho? And they send us cash?
Get er Done
sure, Marquis a decent 5, but we need to sign Lowe to be #4
I’d trade Schoeneweis for Marquis to compete with Niese for the 5th spot.
If they pay some and take Scho I would consider it…Just worry about why the cubs are doing it, unfortuantely i know the answer
Pull the trigger already.
What’s taking so long?
Well joesmith, they’re trading Shoenwiess(sp?) and the cubs are paying some of Marquis’ contract so be happy
we still need sheets
But if they’re willing to consider Marquis, then why not just sign Garland instead?
I’d rather hold onto Schoenweis as he is a decent LOOGY.
Its decent i guess, marquis gives us a fifth starter.
Can’t go wrong with that trade. I wouldn’t the acquisition of Marquis stopping us from going to the free agent market to grab a 3 or 4 starter. Getting Marquis doesn’t give us great depth, because A) you have no idea the kind of health John Maine will be after his surgery, and B) you have no idea if Jon Niese will be another Mike Pelfrey of 2007.
The Mets should feel confident in Pelfrey and Santana, and semi-confident in Maine, but outside of that, they really need to grab a pair of starters.
I like Marquis because he’s proven that he can win games and give you around 30-32 starts a year, with the exception of 28 last year. He’s still capable of tossing 200 innings and for say $5-6 million, it’d be worth grabbing him rather than going to say Jon Garland, who would probably give the same results, but at $12 million a year.
I can’t say that I would not be interested in this deal if it meant getting Schoeneweis and his $3.5 million off the team.
But if they’re willing to consider Marquis, then why not just sign Garland instead?
I would hope they get both
I like this deal. I don’t think he is awful ( we had worse) and he is from this area; which could help him be better playing near home.
If this doesn’t exclude us from signing Lowe, then I’m fine with it…
Garland is a no-no because he’s Type A, I believe.
Would you want to give up a draft pick for Jon Garland?
I would trade Scho if all i received back was a mushroom stamp.
Cause if chicago is willing to pay some of marquis slary, and they are willing to take shoe, then your paying about 6 mill for marquis, and losing 3 million for shoe, so your getting marquis for about 3 million. Plus hes our #5. This is a good deal,
Interesting idea.
We would lose Shoe, Smith, Heilman, Wagner, and Ayala.
We’d get back K-Rod, Putz, and Green.
As long as we get more help in the pen (beyond hoping O’Day gets healthy). I guess maybe add Cordero. I would rather use the other A Player signing on someone like Sheets or Lowe than Cruz.
Even with Marquis just acting as competition, we still need another sold #2/#3.
marquis is a decent option to hold down the 5spot until niese is ready. We still need to fill the 3spot with Lowe or Perez. Sign Cordero and pitching may be set.
Marquis is a one year deal. He keeps the 5th spot warm for Niese then he’s gone.
i agree with bkfitz…took the words out of my mouth…then sign hopefully lowe as the 4 but ill take ollie back
Since your paying 5 mill for putz, its frees up some money to be spent elsewhere.
I.E. MANNY!!
Marquis would only be for one year. Garland will be for 4 years.
Im afraid if they do this trade, they will be forced to keep Marquis on the roster all year. So even if hes bad, hes still going to probably remain in the rotation.
At least hes a good hitter. Can hit him 8th in front of Slappy.
yuk.
I mean, i guess if your dealing shoenweiss for him and getting mone why not, but still.
yuk.
straw, if hes is bad, then you can always call up niese.
“aus1331 says:
December 11th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
I like this deal. I don’t think he is awful ( we had worse) and he is from this area; which could help him be better playing near home.”
Trachsel Aus? lol
Marquis only if the Cubs pay $5M of his salary. Otherwise no waaaay.
Smell this
Mr. Marquis’s Peripherals
bb/9: 3.77
k/9: 4.90
h/9: 9.27
Thanks but no thanks unless he is a number 5 then may be we will talk.
Metsfan…you will still be stuck with Marquis and his salary. you cant just send him down to AAA. you will have to retain him on the 25 man somewhere.
I don’t mind getting Marquis for Sho
But I want Peavy in the #2 spot more, so trade Sho, F-Mart and Niese maybe Evans and get us Peavy. Then sign Ollie back.
Santana, Peavy, Maine, O. Perez and Pelfrey.
Not too shabby.
With a healthy Duaner, Putz and K-Rod in the pen …
My mom could be in LF, and her range and arm strength haven’t been the same since the stroke.
Do it if they will pick up a couple million on top of taking Schowenweis
9 mil-3.6-2=3.2 million and then let him compete with Niese for the 5 spot, if he doesnt get it hes insurance and/or the long man.
Then sign Ollie or Sheets and the rotation is set
“I would trade Scho if all i received back was a mushroom stamp.” I agree. Marquis is a decent 5 and we don’t have to go multi year either with him. Add to that Marquis can be used as a Pinch hitter.
I like this trade, but Heyman has been absolutely clueless this hot stove season so I don’t trust there’s any juice to this rumor. Did anyone hear Jon on the FAN last night at around 11 p.m. trying to pretend like he knew what was going on with the Putz trade? He didn’t even know Joe Smith’s was conceivably part of the deal. The guy makes more stuff up than any other sports “columnist” out there and that’s just plain sad.
Meanwhile Marquis will give us league average #s and 200 IP out of the 5th starter spot while letting Niese develop more in AAA. We’ll get him for someone who probably would get dragged off the field by the fan base if he makes it to opening day next year.
It’d be stupid to grab Garland instead of Marquis. They are virtually the same player. Marquis will come at $6 million or so, Garland at $10 or 12.
Plus, by getting Marquis, you get rid of Schoeneweis.
By signing Garland, you give up a first-round pick.
Makes all in the sense in the world to pull the trigger on this if the Mets
straw, you are right. but for a 5th starter, and chicago willing to pay some slary and getting rid of shoe, IMO, you have to do it.
ever had any plans on signing Garland.
Sheets is just too big a health risk, I’d love for him to come here and do well, but he has to be considered a #5 guy because of his lack of durability.
Apparently Mets fans want 5 aces. We’re talking about someone to compete for the 5 spot.
And would you guess relax on the Manny crap, he’s not gonna be a Met. In case you didn’t realize they scored plenty of runs last year.
Marquis is a one year rental, till nest year when a few big boys are FAs
If Scho goes we’re gonna need another lefty in the pen… how about Eddie Guardado? I’d like to see Cordero come in, as well, but that seems unlikely now.
Consider this, though… suppose Wagner is somehow ready to play in September 09… how sick is our pen then?
Also Im tired of the Jon Garland “solid” mythology. Cerrone drinks the kool aid too. Jon Garland is not a good MLB pitcher. He has never been. He is flat out BAD. He got a high amount of wins because his team was teriffic. He had a 4.9 era last year with 90 Ks in 196 innings. In those 196 innings he gave up 237 hits. 237!!!!! Opponents hit .303 against him. So basically, everybodies an allstar when theyre up against Jon Garland. In no way shape or form is Jon Garland a good pitcher. I would have rather seen what heilman could do than sign Garland. Hes also a type A free agent, so youd have to give up a 1st rounder for him. He’ll also asking for about 3 years 30 million. He makes Ollie look like Cy Young
I don’t want a rotation of 5 aces. But I also don’t want a rotation of an ace, a #3 and #4’s and #5’s. This deal makes sense if they’re planning on bringing in a guy like Sheets or Lowe, not if the other starter we bring in is like Garland.
I should also say I wouldn’t mind this trade one bit.
FYI
Garland is a Type B free agent
We surrendered our first round pick already when we signed Krod
Mel Rojas, Garland had a few good eyars with the white sox. But your right, i dont want him either.
not enough runs
ANYTHING to get Schoenweis (A.K.A: the white flag) off our team. Marquis would be a risk but lets see how much they are willing to pay of that contract first.
Jon Garland is a Type B free agent everybody.
Garland had one really good year in Chicago, and one decent yr. Every other year was pretty mediocre.
Marquis is mediocre.. For Schoeneweis.. eh.
sho for marquis??
where do i sign?
Gina, last year, the phillies had a rotaion, of Ace, #3, and 3 #5’s
im indifferent on this one
we act like we are so close from being the best team in baseball that all we need to do is patch things up,, we cant even beat the marlins at home the last weekend of the season. we need manny
I’d be all for this. He’ll throw 200 average-to-below-average innings, but will probably block a (awful) signing of Jon Garland. Garland is just not a very good pitcher and will cost entirely way too much. If the Cubs pay a portion of his contract and take Show this would be a smart move.
I am cool with Marquis as the 5th starter……just get rid of Scho………….fair deal
Just in aces you all haven’t been listening to Omar, here are his targets via Free Agency:
1 – Perez
2 – Wolf
3 – Garland
cross the following off your lists:
1 – Lowe
2 – Sheets
3 – Burnett
Constnza81V2.0, good to hear from you! I haven’t seen you post in a while.
Not to mention we now have money for someone else (manny)
ESPN says the Mets are considering Lowe and Perez
Oh, and Manny is NOT a cure-all…
pefectly fine with this as long as hes our number 5
do this trade only if its just sho, and then sign manny…..
I would do that trade becasue if a better 5th starting option comes along you can always move Marquis to the pen. Plus they can sign another lefty like every day Eddie.
I was one who felt Schow and Heilman had to go. This would be a very good trade for the Mets.
Marquis is not terrible for a one year rental…
i’d make that trade if it means schoeneweis goes and the cubs pick up some salary.
then the mets can trade marquis if they get two better starters and he’ll have more value since the cubs are paying say half the salary
Also this is what is great about the new tandem of Putz and Krod……………Marquis just needs to go a descent 5 or preferably 6 , then they can turn it to Green, Feliciano and maybe a guy like Ayala if he returns which i think he will……….then 8/9 lockdown time
Moyer was better than a #3, look at his road numbers. His ERA was just looks worse because of playing home games in CBP. Actually Philly had the 3rd best ERA on the road in the NL, so all their pitchers probably looked worse than they actually are because of CBP.
Matt, Marquis only tossed 167 innings last year.
I really hope that Ayala is brought back.
I am not sure I am comfortable with 1 LH pitcher in the pen, Pedro II. As a LOOGY, no less. Keeping both he and Shoe means you can go to the well twice.
johan
BLANK
pelf
maine
marquis
this is a solid rotation considering the BLANK is someone decent
Get rid of Schoenweiss, get Marquis and have him compete against Niese for the 5th spot.
No thanks I’ll take Garland…
I put garland as a type A hes a type B my bad. I still stand by my point though. second rounder and 3 years 30+ for garland is absurd. And the reason I would be more willing to do this deal is that the Cubs would be willing to eat part of the salary, take back Shoewenweiss so your getting marquis for around 3 million. Look at what marquis and garland did last year. Marquis wasnt great, but was mucccch better than garland, and will be much cheaper. And Omars no dummy, he knows this. I actually think this was his intention all along but wanted to wait until the cubs deal was dead to pull the trigger, which it now appears to be.
Phuk the phils I agree.
Slim, why? Garland is going to cost so much more than Marquis and is just not that good.
Rojas I’m pretty sure teams don’t give up second rounders for Type B free agents.
I’m starting to think that with the way the market is shaping up that it might be the best move to bite the bullett and re-sign Ollie.
Here is an idea for a pitcher that won’t lose us any draft picks.
Re-Sign Ollie.
This guy fills in for the 5 spot. He may only be a half year guy anyways. Let’s not we just re-signed Figgy as well. He is an option for a spot starter.
As far as additional help in the bullpen, I gotta think there is somebody coming up from the Minors this year. I see Brad Holt and/or Parnell making the team this year. Plus we still have Stokes. We should be okay in the pen now.
if the mets don’t make a run at sheets they’re foolish. marquis isnt bad but why not throw a flyer out on sheets. boom or bust…
A Type B free agent’s former team gets a compensation pick given to them by the MLB. Not the team that he signs with. We lose no picks.
Mingo,
For one thing Perez technically would cost us draft picks since we’re at least guarenteed a supplemental pick and another pick somewhere if he signs with another team.
For another Perez is a #4/5 who wants more than #4/5 money. Unless his asking price drops like a rock he’s not going to be anywhere near worth what he signs for.
i doubt highly that the manny thing is going to happen, although it would be great…as far as this trade goes, i would do it in a minute…getting rid of showenweiss? for a #5 pitcher? fine by me…you would still be left with feliciano as the lefty guy, and understand that you are going to need the specialists a lot less now…If the avg starter goes 6 innings, you have to work your way through the 7th, then putz, then krod, instead of patching together 3 whole innings..
What is more important? I draft pick that might positively impact the club in the distant future — or a starter of lesser talent possibly negatively impacting the club in the near future?
Quite frankly, I’m sick of the “good-Ollie, bad-Ollie” days too. When he’s on he’s on, but he’s a weird dude because he could be rolling along and then all of a sudden he will walk two guys in a row and implode. For the money he wants, let him walk. I like Marquis for the job we need him to do…he will eat some innings and give us some quality starts…the question is, who will we give up for him now that Heilman, Carp, Chavez, etc. are gone?
1 lefty in the pen is plenty if the pen actually has guys who can pitch to righties and lefties, which it now does. K-Rod, Putz, Stokes, Feliciano, Ayala. Not a bad start if Ayala comes back.
Mingo,
Holt will be in A ball to start the year. Let’s not get carried away here. He needs to work on his second and third pitches for a while.
Ollie will cost us picks- the 2 we’d gain for letting him go.
He’s most valuable to us in in the form of those picks. Theres a bunch of options that will give us similar production (at most likely more reasonable contracts).
Dwight, you’re giving up nothing pretty much. The Cubs need to lose Marquis to get Peavy. They aren’t getting any real talent in return for him (and if they are, forget the deal).
mingo I agree with you. Losing Schowenweis is no tragedy to the pen. Re-sign Rincardo Rincon for pennies to be a lefty specialist and take a flyer on Cordero or not
A rotation of:
Johan
Pelf
Ollie
Maine
Marquis/Niese
and a bullpen of:
K-Rod
Putz ( I still cant believe I just typed that)
Stokes
Feliciano
Rincon
Green
Parnell/Sanchez/Marquisas the long man/anyone who steps up in spring
is more than fine and even better if we could get Cordero on the cheap
I think this would be great for the Mets. It would solidify our 5th spot in the rotation, without having to spend money (FA). Everybody knocking Marquis, please, we had Pedro for half a year. I do also remember us giving starts to Figueroa and Knight. If we can get rid of Schoe’s albatross of a contract, while getting a healthy 5th starter, I’d say we were in a better position than we were. As long as we get a above avg starter for the last spot, we are in GREAT shape to sign a bat for LF.
I say we go after Burnett. Throw something like 3 years 60 million and see if he bites. It would be 4 million more a year than the yankees offer and then give him a fourth year option. He is awesome!
MacD81, that makes sense when you’re talking about the difference between signing guys like Sheets or Lowe and signing guys like Perez/Garland/ or trading for Marquis. Not when you’re talking about the difference between Perez/Garland/Marquis.
Perez is a pitcher with solid stuff, I don’t think it’s as good as a lot of people seem to think, but horrible walk rates who has been made to look better than he is because he’s an extreme flyball pitcher and Shea is a pitchers park and we’ve had pretty great outfield defense play. He’s not worth the money he is asking for.
we need MANNY!! If we get manny then WOW!!
matt i dont know why you said he has pitched 190 last 5 seasons, from what i read he pitched 167 last year..in any case id rather perez back where he can do his 6 inings then get to are soon to be amazing bullpen :)
whats up w/ sanchez? awfully quiet. expecting a big year from him after resting up post the surgery. we shouldn’t trade him now – his value is low and ceiling is high (i.e. 2007)
Meh….if it is just Sho and we can pick up another LOOGY somehwere AND if the Cubbies pick up some salary AND if the Mets still get a decent 2/3 starter, it is okay.
Thanks Kellman, I just haven’t heard any names…even though Show has been rumored to be a part of the mix. I just can’t see us getting a decent (well, not bad anyway) starter for one specialist. But I can see your point about the Cubs needing to get rid of him for Peavy.
No, we don’t need Manny…we need to continue building our pitching. Manny would be a solid addition offensively, but scoring runs is not our problem. Let’s get more reliable arms first, then talk Manny…he’s not signing any time soon anyway.
As long as Omar is still getting a #3 starting pitcher (Perez, Garland, etc) then Marquis is FINE. He’s a workhorse…
Gina, I agree that he’s not worth what he’s asking. My concern is that in terms of pure talent I think he’s better than the Marquis/Garland/Wolf types, especially since there are two spots to be filled. I understand what you’re saying, though.
“Just in aces you all haven’t been listening to Omar, here are his targets via Free Agency:
1 – Perez
2 – Wolf
3 – Garland
cross the following off your lists:
1 – Lowe
2 – Sheets
3 – Burnett”
If you’ve been listening to Omar longer than a week or so, you know he never reveals his plans so blatantly. He’s posturing. Nobody is off any lists when it comes to Omar, you should know that.
Kellmen, right now the only guys we have who can pitch to both sides of the plate are putz and k-rod. Stokes is an EXTREME roogy pitcher, so is green although not to the same extreme and ayala is just bad regardless of who he’s pitching too.
Garland is not a #3…unless Perez re-signs or we go after Lowe (now looking unlikely), either Maine or Pelfrey will be our #3, which isn’t that bad. We need a #2 if we can get one and/or a back end guy in case Niese can win the spot in ST.
Gina, sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that all of those guys were cross-over pitchers. I was just stating guys who would be in the pen, but yeah, it was confusing.
I like the marquis trade with show going. But Marquis would have to be competing with Niese for 5. Cant have him at the 5 especially with Maine’s uncertainty. At the 4, I think waiting out perez or Sheets is probably the smart way to go. One of their prices should drop. Perez will stay on the field, but you dont know what he’ll do out there. You know sheets will be good on the field, but you dont know if he’ll be out there. I’d be content with either if the moneys right.
At the same time, The Peavy to cubs deal has been pronounced dead by a couple of sources, the braves now have no interest and the only other people mildly interested are the Angels. This sound eerily similar to a certain big time trade chip ace last year? Who was destined to go to a couple teams and then it all fell through. And ususpectedly, Omar came out of nowhere and nabbed him on the cheap? Hmm..
I’d easliy take Marquis as the 5th starter.
Then (if I had my way) sign Sheets. If we can’t get Sheets then maybe Penny for 1 year (for the high reward).
I’m torn on Lowe for 4 years. The problem is if we have Marquis and Penny doesn’t work out and Niese has growing pains our rotation is in trouble…
Which is why I might have to go with Lowe for 4 years.
I liked Ayala…he pounded the strike zone and challenged hitters. I’d like to see what he can do if he is put in a more comfortable role, say the 6th and 7th inning where he belongs. He’s not a closer, so you have to give him props for the job he did for us last season in an emergency.
@94cryder05
You would be willing to pay Burnett who is always injured $20 million a year which is $1 million less than what Johan who is light years better than AJ is going to get? His career is not one that screams $20 million per year contracts like that are what make guys like Johan and CC so expensive because their agents go look how much better my guy is so he needs to be paid as such
I dont like Marquis at all. He is not a good pitcher. He is not cheap. From what I understand he is being moved to clear salary so how much money would the cubs send with him? I’d rather keep Scho, he can get lefties out very well, he just has to be used properly, or trade him in some other deal.
So I went to the Bellagio last night in within 5 minutes I saw Joe Maddon, Dusty Baker, Lou Pinella and Steve Phillips…and later on in the night I saw Lee Mazzilli saying bye to some guys outside, asking them what time they were leaving tomorrow (which would be today) and Jonathan Mayo
I think what will happen is we will sign a Marquis/Garland type to be our #4…and Niese will win the spot in ST.
Not saying it’s what I prefer, but here’s what I think the rotation will look like come April:
Santana
Pelfrey
Maine
Garland
Niese
MacD.
see that’s where I disagree, I don’t think Perez has as much talent as people think. He basically only throws two pitches, the fastball and the slider, which is nasty against lefties but extremely hittable against righties. His velocity and movement are okay, but nothing special and he has crazy control and focus problems.
No way if they get Marquis they are still going to get Garland or Wolf preferably
The rotation for depth should be
Santana
Pelfrey
Maine
Wolf or Garland
Marquis
Stokes(spot starter/long man)
Niese
Parnell
I totally agree with you Gina. Perez’s stuff is completely overblown.
if you looked at the mets offensively towards the end of the year, with beltran and wright not quite saying it out loud, they pretty much said that they were fed up with the bullpen…they were sick of putting up 7, 8 runs and the bullpen not being able to hold it, then you could see they were spent, and simply didnt have enough gas in the tank at the end of the game…the offense as is would now win a LOT more games….the offense is not as bad as we think…
d wright5, if thats the rotation, we’re in for a potentially extremely mediocre season. Maine’s arm makes him a question mark. Garland is not a very good baseball player and will be absurdly overpriced. And no one knows what niese will be at all.And to add on to that, pelfry might have a sophmore slump. Santana and a bag of baseballs isnt gonna do it, theres 7 innings before the 8th and 9th
I agree Ayala should come back
if this one goes through as Scho for Marquis it will be a good day
then deal Sanchez for a 2nd lefty in the pen
Rodriguez
Putz
Feliciano
Green
Ayala
2nd lefty for Sanchez
Stokes
That is lovely to me. Only guy that started the year from last yrs pen is Feliciano
A
Once Burnett signs with the Yanks it will be real interesting to see what Pettitte does. Cashman has given him the last shot at the 5th spot. If he accepts, that makes Lowe attainable for the Mets, since the Braves are not interested in him. That leaves only the Phils and Red Sox in the mix. I think the Phils are making their interest known to light a fire under Moyer, so perhaps the Mets ony competition will be the Red Sox. If they sign Texeira, Lowe might fall to us.
Lowe at 4/60 or whatever Boras is claiming he “deserves” is absurd.
Agreed. I’m rooting for the Yankees to sign AJ because it opens the door for the Mets to sign Lowe. Santana/Lowe/Pelfrey/Maine/Marquis/Niese would be a good group of 6 starters.
I’d like to keep duaner. Hes not going to bring in much anyway. And I think last year was the low point coming off all that rehab. I would loook for a bounceback year. Plus, at most, we ask him to pitch in the 7th inning. And thats still even yet to be determined
I agree with kellman
I hope Lowe signs with us but I’m worried that.
1. Whatever contract Burnett gets will bring his price tag up.
2. Someone else, most likely someone in our division, will sign him if we wait for Burnett
3. It doesn’t matter what Burnett does because our front office will refuse to pay Lowe and instead way overpay for someone else, most likely Perez.
mel-
So…you’re saying that Lowe, Burnett, Marquis- none of these guys have questions and high price tags around them? Of course they do…and I disagree on the “extremely mediocre” comment, I think that is a good rotation (not great, but good). Santana is a 20 game winner, Pelfrey can win at least 15-17 with a good bullpen (how many times was he in line for the W last season), IF Maine comes back to form (which everyone, including doctors, say he should since it was not a ligament problem but a bone spur causing discomfort) he should win at least 15, and Garland would win around 12-14 games as he usually does (even with that horrible offense in Anaheim). Niese is a question, but if he only wins 8 or 9 games and learns a ton, do you really think that will hurt us much? No, not if our bullpen holds on to leads like they should now.
And I don’t think Pelfrey will have a sophomore slump because the kid has been in the bigs for two years now…he had a freshman slump. I could be wrong about everything, but that’s the worst case scenario. I’m just very optimistic.
mel, you may have a point about sanchez. his change up was devastating before the injury, and if can regain the form and arm strength to throw the gas again, the change can be a very effective weapon against the LH hitters from the RH side.
1. Not much more than it had been
2. From what I’ve read on ESPN, the Braves and Phillies have no interest in Lowe.
3. Omar has repeatedly said his top target is Lowe. Our front office doesn’t want Perez within 1000 miles of the Mets roster next year
TBlz to your point, Sanchez had better numbers against lefties last year than against righties…Sanchez is worth the risk since he will probably be used once or twice a week….most likely in the 6th or 7th innings
There is something to be said for just getting new faces in here. I don’t want to see the same guys on this team when they’re completely replaceable players, and it’s nice to see that a good portion of those guys have been shipped out or will be shipped out.
I’d do that trade and live with Marquis in the rotation, if it frees up cash to sign Perez and Manny/Ibanez/thebat.
1. I don’t know about the Braves, I remember early reports but haven’t heard anything recently, but I’ve definitely heard about the Phillies going after Lowe recently
2. Most reports have said our top choice is Lowe but it doesn’t seem likely we’ll sign him because of his price tag.
Gina,
I don’t think the problem with Ollie is that he only has two pitches. He has nasty stuff. The problem with Ollie is his erratic command of them. When he throws strikes he’s almost un-hittable.
But if Mets fans say they don’t want to re-sign Ollie because of his inconsistency, I can dig it. Especially, if Boras Badinov is asking for 4 or 5 years.
Another “plus” for getting Marquis is that he is an excellent hitter – even capable of pinch hitting.
Just thought I’d add that to the mixed.
The Mets should just sign Wolf and Garland and let Niese pitch in Triple A and wait to be a mid-season callup. In an ideal world Lowe would be great but we need innings eaters to get to Putz and K-Rod..and a staff of Johan, Pelfrey and Garland should average about 6-7 innings among them. Wolf would be a great left behind Johan.
Slider,
I thought he was an excellent hitter too, but he isn’t really. I checked his stats. He’s solid, but he’s no Dontrelle/Backe/Owings.
DW5- Marquis will not be expensive. He has 6.5 mil, which the cubs will either eat or take on show. Thats a cheap 5 starter, and not a bad one. Lowe will be expensive, but is 100 times better than Garland. and doctors can say all they want, we wont know about maine until he starts pitching. Also, he wasnt pitching very well before the injury anyway. You dont want your 2 or 3 starter barely capable of reaching the 5th inning on a regular basis. Add that on to the fact that your rotation has both niese and garland. They are both number 5 starters. I really think the mets need a guy like Lowe or even Sheets, to push eveybody back one slot in the rotation. Its too much to ask Pelf to be 2 Maine to be a 3 and god forbid Garland to be a 4. Maine and Pelf COULD play to their top potential but your putting all your eggs in one basket
Santana
Lowe
pelf
maine
marquis
Now thats a goodlooking rotation
Why do people say getting Marquis would “free up cash”. the reason chicago wants to deal Marquis is to get rid of part of his salary. Even if the Cubs pay $3m and Show goes taking off another $3m, it still raises the mets payroll by $3m.
Hot Stove Report is on ESPN right now.
The Peavy to Cubs deal is reportedly “dead.” Kruk is saying that Peavy needs to expand the list of teams he is willing to go to.
Any interest in putting together a deal with the Padres for Peavy where we include Pelfrey or Maine?
How about Pelfrey and FMart (?) for Peavy and a prospect?
As a hitter, I’m not asking Marquis to be Dontelle/Backe/Owings, but can he be Marlon Anderson?
Negative. but at least you are being reasonable with what we would have to give up.
If we miss out on Lowe- we’re better off siging Wolf and getting the picks then siging Ollie (to a longer more expensive deal) and no picks.
Id trade Marlon Anderson for Rick Ankiel- The Pitcher.
What are Garland and Wolf asking for? I can see signing one, but both of them??? Naa. Though they both avg more than 200 IP a year, they both have very avg periphreals that shouldnt warrant any long term or expensive deals.
the Straw
Because the alternative is signing Garland or Perez to contracts between 5-8 million more than what we’d be paying for Marquis, depending on how much the Cubs pay of Marqui’s salary, for basically the same production.
Wolf averages 200 IP a year? Maybe 5 years ago. Last year was his first healthy season in years.
TBlz you think Wolf has average peripheals? I think they’re much better than most of the options that have been discussed for a #5 starter.
Also Garland somewhere between 10-12 million I think and I have no idea with Wolf. I’d imagine he’ll ask for around the same or less but I have no idea.
Peavy? Anybody?
oh God Marlon Anderson,haha…….he was such a good PH then last yr crap………he has to go but who will take him?……….hey wait!!!! the Cubs,haha
Dump Scho and Anderson on them since Marquis makes quite a bit of cash
peavy is NOT going to happen, so I dont even know why we would talk about that one…
MANNY MANNY MANNY MANNY MANNY
Gina,
What do you see out of Wolf that is so impressive? His K rate is solid but not exceptional. He walks a lot of batters. His WHIP was bad. He gave up more than a hit per inning. He had an ERA+ of 93, and it was the first time he had thrown 190+ innings since 2003. He’s not good.
I like that rotation as well, Mel, but there are 4 RHP…we need another LHP, which is why I have a feeling Niese will be our #5. I don’t see us getting Lowe, but I didn’t see us getting Putz, either, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I was looking at some interesting stats on Pelfrey, though, and I found some crazy stuff.
In 2008, he left the game 4 times with a lead and either lost or got the ND. That automatically puts him at 17 wins if the bullpen is solid. And 4 more times he left with a tie game, which could be a W or L, but the bullpen took the loss on all of them. The most intriguing is this one: 14 times he received 3 runs or less (10 times it was 2 or less) in run support…not in 2009, but we may have a future 20 game winner here. I’m not putting all my eggs in the Pelf basket, I’m just following trends.
Eh, Slider. I think getting Peavy will create too many holes, it would depend a lot on whether the front office switched their building philosophy.
Ok yes all of these trades are decent but there is more than enough pitiching in FA i think we missed our opportunity on some of the bullpen help but there is more than enough out there there is better pitching than marquis out there and mediocre relief
I don’t mean I see something exceptional, just way better than Perez, Marquis and Garland. His k/9 is better, his bb/9 his FIP
we need to go after sheets before the yanks decide to grab all the good available fa starters
He’s not close to Oliver (and I don’t like Oliver), and Garland (another guy I hate as a player) is better as well.
Gina,
what holes? please explain. I think it’s an opportunity Omar should jump at.
1. Santana
2. Peavy
3. Maine
4/5. Perez/Marquis/Garland/Lowe/Niese
Then sign Manny to play LF; trade Castillo for garbage and sign Hudson.
Wow!!!!
I was quick and dirty looking at career 162 game avgs.
Garland: 180.5 IP (per year), 1.385 WHIP, ERA+ 104, 4.71 k/9, 1.60 k/BB
Wolf: 146.8 IP (per yr), 1.347 WHIP, ERA+ 101, 7.52 k/9, 2.24 k/BB
Marquis: 141 IP (per yr), 1.425 WHIP, ERA+ 96, 5.33 k/9, 1.51 k/BB
Meh.
I don’t like Sheets….the guy is nasty but last season was the first time he pitched more than 24 games since 2004. Too many questions about his arm…if you want a reliable guy and are willing to spend it, get Lowe. Lowe has never been on the DL, so he’s going to give you innings for a slightly high price.
How is he not close to Oliver?
Randy Wolf
k/9 7.66
bb/9 3.36
hr/9 .9
FIP 4.17
Oliver
k/9 8.35
bb/9 4.87
hr/9 1.11 and this was in a pitchers park
FIP. 4.68
Jon Garland
k/9 4.12
bb/9 2.70
hr/9 1.05
FIP 4.76
Slider-
We don’t have near enough money for all of those moves. Peavy will be expensive, as will Manny, Hudson, and either Perez or Lowe. And I love how some people just put “trade Castillo,” as if Omar can just sell him to any team. If we do trade him, we are taking on another bad contract in return.
dw5, believe me, im a huge pelfry fan. And I expect him to be really good for a really good time. I just want the mets to actively pursue a 2 starter so that everyone can be pushed back. Basically, i dont want a lot of uncertainty at the end of the rotation. Look at this year, Pedo was injured and bad. Maine was both injured and pretty mediocre with no longevity. And Ollie, who played better than both, was still erratic. I think a big move at the front of the rotation is better than several stop gap moves at the bottom.
The trade I saw had Maine and Pelfrey going, or did you mean one or the other?
dwright, Peavy is under contract for like 12 million for the next two seasons, then after that his contract jumps. Getting him wouldn’t be expensive money wise.
TBIz, thanks for those stats.
2 things that don’t show up in them, though.
1. Marquis will be a 1-year rental whereas Garland and Wolf will cost multiple year contracts, around $10M/yr and our 2nd rd. draft pick.
2. Marquis means the END of Schoeneweis. Garland and Wolf can’t do that…
I think thats why I asked for their asking prices. Wolf makes the most sense.
Slider
What’s the payroll for that roster you’re putting together?
If you think that Pedro II and Duaner can be counted on the get all LH outs, then, you’re right. If you don’t, I encourage you to look at what Shoe does to LH hitters.
Garland and Wolf are type B free agents we wouldn’t give up draft picks.
dam gina, youre quicker than i am.
Also I agree with TBlz, we shouldn’t be as eager to get rid of Scho as some people are. When he’s asked to do his job he’s better than anyone else in our pen. The problem was last year we had two many specialists. Unfortunately outside of Putz and K-rod we seem to have that same problem now, except we have too many right handed specialists.
we have the offense, and now the bullpen support for the late innings, but we need a one-two punch in our starting pitching rotation, sign peavy
Mel-
No doubt, man…I agree. I was just saying that I don’t know if it will happen with Lowe.
Gina-
From what I saw he makes 11 mil in 2009, and 15 mil in 2010. But you’re right, for what we get it’s not that expensive. However, it will cost us in talent for sure and it all adds up when you include K-Rod, Putz, Manny, Lowe/Perez, Hudson, and also whoever’s contract we take over for Castillo. Considering Minaya has to keep the payroll in line with last seasons, I’d say that’s almost impossible.
Gina,
Wolf doesn’t actually pitch. He’s always injured. Oliver is not a great pitcher but he has at least been healthy more than one time since 2003, has a better K rate, and put up a higher OPS+ (100-93). Neither is great but Oliver 1) produces better and 2) isn’t half the injury risk.
GravediggerHebner says:
Slider
What’s the payroll for that roster you’re putting together?
______________________________________________
Still less than half of what the Hankees payroll will be … LOL.
Ok, I got a little carried away. So, we can choose between Hudson and Manny. But we need to get one of the two.
Plus, we would blow the Phillies away if we got Peavy to back-up Johann.
MANNY HIT 400 IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE!!!!!!
If I have to choose only one of Manny or Hudson, I’d choose Manny every time.
Thank you, Gina…I was going to point that out. They get a supplemental pick, but we don’t lose one.
Manny would be perfect for our line-up. Questions are (1) his head; and (2) $$$$$.
I say go after Dunn and Manny simultaneously. Depending on the price, sign one or the other.
ESPN/Steve Phillips is reporting that Ibanez is coming down to (1) Phillies; (2) Mets; and (3) Braves.
mets trade carlos delgado straight up for carl crawford, or add nick evans to the deal if you have to. Take over crawfords 6million on his contract, the rays take on delgado 5 mill left over after we take on crawfords contract.
This would be good for the rays who are looking for a power bat especially for DH and can help them out in there division to put up power numbers with pena. Also remember the rays won last year without crawl crawford for most of the year,so i dont know if they really would hold on to him despretley.
This would give us a guy that can hit both lefties and righties and would make our outfield defense insane since beltran, church are both great defense outfielders, and crawford would make our outfield one of the best. That said we go after mark texeria to make up for a right handed bat and gold glove defense at 1st base
i saywe offer 8 years 200 million with opt out option after 6 years or club option pick up for the last year the 8th year.
2009-18 million
2010-20 million
2012-22 million
2013-24 million
2014-26 million
2015-28 million
2016-30 million
2017-32 million(club option maybe?)
no trade clause
Peavey will cost way more than he actually is worth. Cy Young or no, away from PETCO, he isnt as dominant as his price tag says he is…
I would do this to get rid of Schoweniss, but would not want him given the 5th starter spot.
I guy with a career 4.50 ERA is not what I call a quality pitcher.
Bring in either Lowe, Perez, or to a much lesser extent Pedro and give spot 5 to either Parnell or Neise.
And also trade or release castillo,, sanchez,, stokes
what i dont get is there is a new stadium…they are making a bazillion dollars just for having the stadium…omar LOVES manny…why not get manny and lowe?
I stopped reading after Crawford for Delgado.
I have to agree with Kellman…last season was Wolfe’s first time pitching more than 23 games since 2003. He’d be a good back end guy, if he was healthy. If we sign him it better be for cheap and we better have a plan B.
Eduardo,
Where is our power going to come from?
sorry, *Wolf…not Wolfe…
No doubt the health issues are a concern for Wolf. Marquis is the definition of average or a tad below, and I just cant get excited about him joining the rotation.
Well, Peavy wants to play some place where he can just blend in and shoot things, so NYC is perfect!
Eduardo-
those contract numbers are ridiculous….I mean I’ve heard of inflation but Jesus Christ man.
our power will come by winning as a team we will have great defense and we will be a younger team which i care for in the long run
and texeria puts up big numbers after he’s done to his slow start. He hit above .300 off both lefties and righties and put up 120 rbis and over 30 homers we still have beltran and david wright with church with power. We will be a better team and wright and texeria can finally be leaders of this team. And with crawford we can run more which what i use to love about the mets 2 seasons ago steal , steal and steal. Its not reality but could be done wish it could happen but dont hurt to wish
Tree stands aren’t allowed in NY.
Eduardo,
Oh. I didn’t see the Texiera part.
Ed, I like your use of punctuation, and I dont mean to nit-pick, but the Mets were 2nd in the NL last yr with SB, 3 behind the leading team.
ay these days those numbers arent crazy look at C.C a man getting paid that money to only play every 5 days i wouldnt complain this guy texeria is a stud and a guy that wants to win a champinship not a guy that already has like 3 rings like manny that just wants his money i want winners and greay clubhouse men i dont know must just be me i rather spoil a everyday player before a guy that contrubutes every 5 days
dwright
we are not getting crawford. definitely not for delgado. if the rays are going to trade him they’ll want a kings ransom. people underrated how valuable he is when you factor in his defense but the rays front office doesn’t.
Gina, Wolf was homer prone in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in baseball (SD).
And you spoil an “ace” because good pitching always beats good hitting.
I like Manny…but honestly it’s one of those things where if we don’t sign him I’m fine with it, but if we do I’m happy. You know what you’re going to get with him already, so it’s not a risk. Just as long as we continue to address our pitching first. Omar is doing a great job so far this offseason.
Sorry folk, but I’m looking at clips of Peavy on ESPN, and PETCO or no PETCO …. that dude has nasty stuff.
I’d carry Pelf on my back all the way to SD to get Jake.
Omar, if you’re reading this site, you gotta look into this.
Casey Stengel was WAAAY ahead of his time:
“We got ‘em from the babies up. As soon as the kid can talk, he’s taught to say ‘Putzie! Putzie!’ Not papa, not mama, ‘Putzie! Putzie! Putzie!’ So that’s what they are. They’re now singin’ the kids ‘Putzie! Putzie! Putzie!’, see, when they want food and everything. So the babies are even starting. We got ‘em from four years on, we got ‘em from ten years on, fifteen years on, eighteen years on. And we got ‘em in a group!”
Gina-
was that directed towards me? I never said a thing about Crawford…that was Eduardo
Why would the Rays want Delgado when they have Pena?
No, let’s hope Omar doesn’t read this site. There are just as many horrible proposals as good ones, lol
squad, he was homer prone in sd. but then he had a .80 hr/9 rate in one of the most homer friendly parks in baseball, minute maid.
yeah sorry dwight. this not being able to reply thing is messing with my head.
dwright5_godsend says:
December 11th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
No, let’s hope Omar doesn’t read this site. There are just as many horrible proposals as good ones, lol
______________________________
LOL. It’s like prospecting for gold. You gotta get your strainer out ..
Should be over soon, right? Matt going back the old way as soon as the Winter mtgs are wrapped…??? Right???
Also eduardo we have players who can steal, reyes, beltran, wright, we just don’t use them that often.
Kruk is speculating that one of the “big market teams has to get now get involved.”
Take away Willy T’s almost 70 SB with a .600 OPS, and we lead the league by a long shot…what’s everyone talking about??
the rays would trade crawford and they would use delgado even if they have pena they dont need him to place 1st base he’s better suited in the DH role where he can last another 2or 3 years if he just focuses on hitting , you guys that think crawford is gold to the rays are wrong ive read articles of them not so crazy over him he i bet they would give him up for power
o i know they can steal i dont know its just hard to see a player like mark texeria get away
Again, Ed, the only way to do give Delgado’s power is you would to ALREADY have replaced it. From where? I know, I know…MANNY!! or TEX!!! Right??
Anybody listening to Kruk talking about Hamels’ comments? He said that “if words make you play harder then you weren’t playing hard enough to begin with.” I disagree…you can play hard every night but bulletin board material like this makes you focus more. You can’t just force yourself to focus like that every night, which is why teams usually play better against rivals. 162 games is a long season, and I think his comments will hurt him…
The Rays absolutely would not trade Crawford for Delgado it makes zero sense. If they want a DH they’ll sign someone like Bradley, not give up one of their cornerstone players for a stop gap who has a good chance of declining.
i do not know if any of you guys are real met fans or just jumped on the bandwagon again because they signed 2 stud players yesterday but the reality of it is they do not have the money to go after any big name players in free agency as teixera, burnett and lowe would be the closest we can afford but honestly who wants him he is 35 years old and his injury plagued. the most realistic options and the most likely you will see from omar in free agency is the mets re signing oliver perez, or going after randy wolf and jon garland are the most realistic options. he could trade for a different pitcher but it wont be a jake peavy caliber player. and manny is a long shot but omar has always loved him and if the mets get help in the pitching category cheap and can somehow lose castillos contract i wouldnt be surprised if we made a run at him for 2 or 3 year contract
umm, forum, do you read any posts before asking that kind of question?
to tell you the truth if get rid of delgado , manny or tex makes up for his power so it could be either one texeria is just a long term solution and great defense but either one can replace delgado, delgado probably has great value the mets just aren’t trying to be creative but cant complain we got k rod and putz im happy
also eduardo I’ve read articles that said the mets were going to trade reyes for santana. it doesn’t mean it’s true. the rays are absolutely not giving up crawford for a year of delgado. you said he’d last for 2-3 years but they’d have to either resign him, why would they pay that much for him, plus give up crawford, when they can sign a guy like Bradley or Dunn from FA. It just makes zero sense.
How in the world is Lowe “injury plagued?”
forum. not having the money and not wanting to spend the money are two different things. the mets have the money, they choose not to spend it.
ayo FORUM
dont be calling out any one on here about whos a real fan if you knew your mets you would know they get 20 million a season for naming right of our stadium and holding guy like manny from us who can be easily bought with the naming right money , us fans deserve it but it im a true met fan and cheer for whatever we have
Guys enough with the trade Delgado talk. I think he’ll be consistent under Jerry for a full year and should give you 30/100 no problem.
Tex is not coming to the Mets and frankly he’s asking way too much money, he just isn’t that good. I’d rather have the Mets resign Ollie or sign Lowe for SP and sign Manny to play LF for like 2/48 contract.
Thoughts?
The Yankees will have to stop the madness at some point right? Every one cant get a 5/85 deal, right?
After that, prices will come to where they’re supposed to, and we can get a decent SP complement what we have.
My thoughts.
Expecting Delgado to repeat last year’s power numbers is irrational.
Thinking Manny will sign for 2/48 is even more irrational
Tex is that good, and in this market he is worth 20 million per.
Is it worth it to give him 10 years and $20 million per??
Marquis for Show is what I have been saying for a while. In fact make it Marquis for Show and Marlon and call it even. Then you go out and sign Guardado. Instantly you have a decent #5 and LHRP that is not a LOOGY.
Can we please stop talking about Manny or Tex. They’re NOT coming here. Regardless, of how much money the Wilpons are pocketing (as opposed to investing into making the team better) or the receding economy…ENOUGH.
but what if the mets just go over every deal and sign texeria while delgado is sitll with the mets and then call the angels for a trade i mean they might try to low ball us becuse were stuck with 2 1stbasemen but they will be begging for delgado and could give us something in return
Then get another scrap heap guy and with the money saved offer Manny my 5/95 deal. 3 years guarnteed and 2 option years with large buyouts to keep him feeling secure. No reason to over pay for a #3 starter pretending to be a #1.
Sylar, I’m iffy about the ten years but if thats what it came down to I would say yes. He’s only 28 and fills a major long-term place, that kind of power usually doesn’t just fall out of the sky and the only other options we would have after this year would be resigning Delgado or breaking the bank for Holliday who will likely want the same or close to the same amount of money as Tex, and who I’m not sure is as good offensively.
haha eduardo dont worry im aware that the mets get 20 million a year so there staidum can say citi on it but you need to be more realistic. the team has other issues to fill before they sign manny. tatis and murphy would be a fine platoon and since your such a great mets fan im sure you will remember that if it wasnt for tatis we would have lost the division by 8 or 9 games last year not 1.
Irrational may be overstating it a bit, Gina. If Castillo were to go 30/100 in 2008, and next offseason we were all here talking about him repeating that, then I would be all for the use of the word.
But we are talking about a guy that came more in line with his career norms after a period of time where he was dealing with a relevant injury. PERHAPS that is a indicator that he may have something left.
How is it irrational?
I’m not saying he’s gonna be on a tear all year like he was in the second half last year. But expect somewhere around 30/100, especially if he’s healthy.
Manny is arguably the greatest RH hitter of all time, and he’s shown no signs of slowing down. Rather than being committed to him for the long term try to get him on a 2 year deal. He’s gonna give you the numbers no doubt… I just don’t see how essentially replacing Delgado with Tex who is probably going to give you similar numbers just doesn’t make sense at this point.
I’d much rather have the Mets add rather than replace… Manny or even Ibanez would be great for LF.
Who is the market right now for Manny before you say we can’t get him? The Angels are not really interested. The Yankee’s are not going there either. Thus the only real candidates are the Dodgers. We can match their offers because they have 40 million tied up in two OF who never play.
tatis is and murphy would be a good platoon but i pefer an everyday player in left field with tatis helping church out incase he cant hit off lefties on a everynight basis and tatis coming off the bench makes our bench stronger so im not so happy about a platoon
Id welcome him back home, i remember him growing up in my town, good guy
OK Omar, lady’s&Gents, Im back and so is my grad A advice. Just remember, the Mets pay luxery tax on their salary additions, so even if the Cubs took on a% of Maquis, we’d still have to pay his salary in the form of (tax). Dont want him, dont want Lowe and his age and high price, dont want Burnet and his injury prone self. Dont want Oliver Perez as we want a team’s 1st rd pick they’d give up for him., The ideas are flowing so stand by for my solution.
Look in this SP market you very well may get shut out. So instead of paying Lowe 4/80 plus would it not be better to get more offense and scrap heap pitchers for now? Lowe has about 6 teams bidding on him. How many teams are bidding on Manny?
manny will either be a yankke , dodger , or a national nobody else watch unless the wilpns stop being cheap but i dont see it happening
You’re probably right I shouldn’t say it’s irrational to expect it, it’s irrational to go into next season counting on it as heavily as we seem to be right now. If for some reason he struggles or offense is going to be in big trouble. Last year our offense slugged a whopping .403 before the all-star break and .445 after. I imagine most of that difference was because of Delgado, and how much better the hitters around him were once we had a real power threat in the line-up.
Captain the Mets are NO WHERE NEAR THE LUXURY TAX THRESHOLD. In fact we could most likely sign Manny AND Tex and not be over it.
We all know how much Omar loves Manny…
Sign Manny, Re-sign Ollie and try to get another guy for the pen. Perhaps bringing back a guy like Bradford and call it an offseason.
grmetsfans. Manny turned down 60 over 2 years from the Dodgers, why would he accept 12 million less?
Also replacing Delgado with Tex makes sense for the long-term, after next year who’s in the middle of the line-up/first base, eventually we’re going to have to replace him and Tex is probably going to be the best option to do it any time soon. Plus even in the short term Tex is a better player, offensively and defensively, than Delgado.
And Eduardo, there is no way you can call the Wilpons cheap. Who had the highest salary in the NL last season? Who will most likely have it again this season?
And the Nationals? Seriously? They will not get Manny.
Yankee’s maybe but even they will not go that much over for more offense.
Angels, unless they don’t get Tex and even then I don’t see it.
It’s Dodgers right now and if the Mets got in it they would be the favorites.
So let’s be optimistic and say we have a full season of good Delgado, and a full season of good Church. What will we slug this year?
Also the captain I’m standing by for your rotation solution.
Manny did not turn down 2/60. You guys don’t read. The offer was about 2/48.
I do not think its fair to say getting Marquis is the same as signing Garland or Perez. I maybe able to see the arguement versus Garland, but Marquis is not a good pitcher. He wasnt even on the playoff rosters for his teams the past few years.
and in comparison with Ollie, at least ollie can be unhittable at times and he is a big game pitcher -albiet somtimes a 5 inning big game pitcher.
I prefer Ollie. In this case, the money is not important. He is a lefty starter and can ALWAYS be traded. Marquis? for gods sake they may be willing to take sho, what does that say?
trade for sho for marquis, sign ollie, maybe one more reliever and manny and LETS GO
I agree with you whole heartedly about tex. Great young player, cornerstone, all that. Would love to get him. But for 10 yrs?? One fifth of a billion dollars? I just cannot justify that.
do you think if the cubs pull out of the peavy deal and the padres get despreate to move his contact come janurary or feburary mets can call them and move neise maybe for peavy and take over the contract
i dont know much about peavy health issues but is he really as bad as burnett on health issues? this guy was a cy young a year ago i dont know fill me in
Compare Garland and Marquis stats. Then think about the fact that you would pay Garland at least 4/40 right now and only about 8 million for Marquis.
I dont know where to begin with that one…
It would take something like F-Mart, Niese AND Parnell to get Peavy. Towers would probably insist on a couple more prospects, too.
Not worth it, in my opinion. Like Gina said, Peavy’s stats away from Petco are a little alarming….
Do you guys think we will make any more bullpen moves or is this it for now?
trs, we did that a few pages ago. conclusion: they both su-ck (didnt know if that one would pa-ss)
TBlz. It depends, Church’s slugging percentage for the first half of the season was well above his career numbers, he also had an insanely BABIP, .358, in the first half which means it was probably being inflated by luck. It’s hard to imagine he would have kept it up the whole season even without the concussions. More than likely he’ll slug between .450-.460 this year I would guess.
thereal,
That’s what I read too, I firmly believe that if Omar offers him something in that area Manny will be a Met. Like I said, it’s no secret that Omar loves the guy.
Hopefully he’ll be coming to Queens.
@ Gina : I see what your saying but I want to see this group of guys win it this year or the year after. I’m sure there will be another 1B option in the future that could replace Delagdo’s production.
Let me start by expressing my graditude and thanks to Omar Minaya for his swift jump and outstanding start to the offseason. The past few winter meetings come and gone with nothing out of the Met front which kept my hope of major acquisitions low. I’d also like to say hello to the realsince86
i know you might think im crazy about niese for peavy but if you looked at what the cubs were offering they were bums and neise looks to be able to get spot in a rotation that the padres could use and im only saying if the cubs completely take them selves out and the padres are stuck with his contract come januraray feburary and taking over a guys entire contract isnt an easy thing if there trying to save money they should be asking for much in return a solid prospect and not much more
I remember Eric doing a LD analysis about the early season, and wasnt Church exceptionally high? Like he’s a better than normal LD hitter?
TBlz, as far as Tex, if we don’t sign him then what do we do about the middle of the line-up/1rst base after 2009? I think 200/10 years is insane too, but other than signing Dunn which they won’t do because it makes too much sense, what other options are there?
if this organization has ANY BALLS manny will be a met
I’m with you therealsince…
Marquis kills 2 birds with 1 stone.
1. He’ll give you 200 innings as a serviceable #5 starter (or safety net / spot starter if Niese wins the job) on a 1 yr. deal.
2. He gets rid of Schoeneweis.
Something else about Teixeira…
If we made him an offer near the other offers… why would he take it over the others??? Orioles and Nats are close to his hometown, and the Red Sox are in much better shape atm.
Peavy doesn’t want to come to NY, he’s made this very clear already… he wants to be in Chicago.
Sign Manny.
Sign Lowe/Ollie.
Trade for Marquis.
peavy is going to have to consider to move somewhere beacuase if a team doesnt want you any more it just isn’t right to stay and i believe soon he will budge and offer a couple teams he will be willing to go to besides the cubs it always happends
eduardos,
Niese alone will NOT net Peavy. All the rumors of the Orioles and Phillies being involved sprang up because the Cubs don’t have anyone besides Vitters in their farm system to satisfy Towers.
Vitters #3 on MLB’s top 50 prospect list.
Niese wasn’t even ON the list…
Gina,
I like that little editorial thrown in…it ellicited a chuckle…somebody said, and I guess I tend to agree that there has to be a 1B option in the next 10 yrs. As far as after this year goes…idk, Im tired.
to someone else: despite Shoe’s affiliation with the past two yrs, he gets LH hitters out to the point that Utley and Howard should be extremely nervous about seeing him come in the 7th some time.
And Jason Marquis is a career below average pitcher who has averaged 141 IP per year over his career.
we got away with carlos gomez kevin mulvey and others for santana it can be done lol
plus the padres soon are going to drop there asking price especially since the team that gets him has to take over his contract they dont deserve multiple prospects in return and thats why the cubs are out because they want a 6for1 or 7for1 type deal thats insane maybe if they were to pay half his contract but no there not so they shouldn’t get much prospects in return
271HOFMets57 says:
December 11th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
I’m with you therealsince…
Marquis kills 2 birds with 1 stone.
1. He’ll give you 200 innings as a serviceable #5 starter (or safety net / spot starter if Niese wins the job) on a 1 yr. deal.
2. He gets rid of Schoeneweis.
___________________________________________
HOF ….. 3. He can pinch hit too!!!
WE ARE NOT GETTING PEAVY. END OF STORY.
the team taking that contract off there hands is doing the padres a favor they should be satisfied with just that peiod
The real…you also have to consider we dump Sho’s salary as well which makes it even less we have to take our of our off season budget and makes me in favor of this deal id he is to be our 5 hole guy competing with Niese. Maybe not as much if he is there to replace Ollie. To get a legit inning eater, not as good but comparable to Garland, for much cheaper is a good move.
Has anyone figured how much we spent yet this off season? I am trying to consider that Omar only planned to spend around 25-30 million this off season. A big portion of that went into our closer spot. If we are bringing in two starters, I don’t see much money left for a big Manny contract. Maybe if we open up a little money by moving Castillo, but are there any takers? I think some of the people you guys are talking about are probably unrealistic for what the Mets want to do this off season. Am I just being to pragmatic?
Right, they should be satisfied with getting garbage for Peavy, even though he’s young and one of the best pitchers in baseball…
Do you think before you speak?
eduardosmets says:
December 11th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
we got away with carlos gomez kevin mulvey and others for santana it can be done lol
plus the padres soon are going to drop there asking price especially since the team that gets him has to take over his contract they dont deserve multiple prospects in return and thats why the cubs are out because they want a 6for1 or 7for1 type deal thats insane maybe if they were to pay half his contract but no there not so they shouldn’t get much prospects in return
_____________________________________________
Maybe we can give SD a chinese menu. Take one from column A (Pelfrey, Neise, or Parnell) and one from column B (Murphy, FMart)?
i dont care who is taking over someone’s mistake is not our problem more like a favor no need to ask for ransom money take the best prospects given to you and move on
TBlz, it was exceptionally high but it was also a small sample size and still not high enough to explain his high BABIP, especially in a park like Shea, Wrights was even higher and his BABIP wasn’t nearly that high. Same thing with Beltran. If you’re just looking at the pre-concussion 2nd half we’re basically talking about 187 at bats with insane line drive rates and were his slugging percentage was well well above his career average. Not necessarily a large enough sample size to say it’s likely he’ll repeat the power trend.
Plus big time power batters, guys like Dunn, Howard, Delgado, Pujols, Manny usually hit high percentage of line drives AND high percentages of flyballs and a big number of their homers come off those fly balls, fwiw that’s basically the difference between Beltrans 2006 & 2007 seasons and Beltran nearly every other season, the flyball rates. Chuch didn’t put up near the fly ball numbers to support that. So even if Church’s pre-concussions slugging percentage wasn’t a fluke he’s still not going to put up the type of power that would support the middle of a line-up.
No Pelfrey can’t be included in the deal, because then your pretty much replacing his spot in the rotation if you land Peavy.
He’s not coming here, why bother.
Sylar stop being so realistic. We’re going to trade garbage and Delgado for Carl Crawford and Jake Peavy. Don’t you understand other teams live to help us?
yeah just read the angels are all in for peavy and i bet they get something done since the padres are despreate to move him and hes already in san diego looks a like a good match for him even if he’s leaving the national league
You’re comparing Peavy with Pelfrey? Then we’re on two separate planets.
Have you ever seen Peavy’s curveball? Compare that to Pefrey’s my friend and then get back to me.
Gina,
Makes sense. Though I dont think I ever considered him a mid-order guy. I was just speculating that a full season of the good versions of both he and Delgado should produce an overall much deeper lineup, as opposed to black holes at the 7-9 spots.
Eduardo, taking that contract off their hands? He’s owed less than 30 million over the next two years. this is not like the Santana situation at all.
Gina, I’m not saying we’re trading “garbage” for Peavy. Chinese menu … one from column A (Pelfrey, Parnell, or Niese) one from column B (FMart or Murphy).
Obviously Peavy is a different league as far as talent goes… but I really like what I saw from Pelfrey last year and I think he can become a really good pitcher.
Ok, ed. You hold your breath until we land Peavey for just Niese. Wanna bet which will happen first? Peavey at Citi or you pas-sing out?
Here’s an idea, who’s in the last year in their contract, and current team’s unability to resign next season, and team could probably afford to get by without this season as well? Give up? Scott Kazmir. Id pretty much also be willing to take on any of Tampa’s pitchers: James Shields, Matt Garza, David Price, heck even Jeff Neiman. I know the Rays already gave away Jackson, but could afford to give another pitcher, and the Rays owe us. Just an idea. What do you think it would take to get Kazmir to the Mets?
Peavy is who we should all want more than Manny or Tex. A staff with Johan, Peavy, KRod and Putz would be beyond unreal.
One year ago we traded a large and shiny pile of absolutely NOTHING valuable for the very best starter in baseball.
As there are very few teams willing to spend a lot right now (Yes, Hubie, you were more right than I thought) and just about anything is possible.
I think Pelfrey can become a good #3 type pitcher. But I don’t think he’ll be Peavy.
I see where this is leading. Wonder what the Yankees want for Sabathia…??
gmets, but Peavy already is a great pitcher. Pelfrey has no deuce … at all. Once he losses a yard on his fast ball, forgetaboutit.
Can you imagine Santana/Peavy v. Hamels/Myers? Oh the humanity.
Why wouldn’t you do this deal in a heart beat…. Fills the #5 rotation spot, and you dump another useless bullpen arm.
Do people not understand that Garland’s nmumbers are very similar to taht of derek lowe. Except he was in the AL when Lowe in the NL.
I wouldn’t mind Garland and Marquis. At least you know your getting 2 solid guys. better then wolf and neise.
TBIz,
To be fair, Marquis didn’t pitch at all in 2000 or 2003 (total 64 ip).
A better statistical indicator would be to average the years he become a full-fledged starter (2004).
2004 – 201.1 ip
2005 – 207.0 ip
2006 – 194.1 ip
2007 – 191.2 ip
2008 – 167.0 ip (lost his job to Rich Harden)
Updated avg. : 192.1 ip
That’s a VERY GOOD #5 starter…
Kazmir is signed through 2011 with an option for 2012.
Captain, check out the internet, it is full of valuable info and facts.
Your definition of solid needs examination, I believe.
The slide, I wasn’t actually talking about your proposal but I think that’s not nearly as valuable as we think. Parnell is likely a middle reliever, Niese is likely a back end of the rotation guy, Murphy has no position and F-mart is a big question mark now. I think we’d have to give up way more than just two of those players.
trading pelfrey for peavy makes absolutely no sense, that is not happening ever…
i really believe if we get manny we will get back to our dominating ways of the 2006 season which would have resulted in a ws win if not for the lack of a shutdown bullpen which we have now. manny will buy into the team if we are winning, he is killing national pitching, and jerry and omar are behind him. resign ollie and trade for marquis and we have a better staff than we did in 2006 as well. LET’S GO OMAR!!!!!!
Do I have to drum this into all (well, not all) of your heads:
PEAVY
PEAVY
PEAVY
PEAVY
How are Garland’s numbers similar to Lowe’s at all.
And I don’t understand whats wrong with trading Pelfrey for Peavy.
Silder,
You win LOL. We would still need another SP so resign Ollie and try to keep Niese for #5 spot.
Like someone else pointed out we would still be under Luxury tax… all there would be left to do would be to sign Manny.
I highly doubt Peavy would want to play for the Mets though.
Sorry LilPelf, but your too emotionally intertwined in this decision making process to participate. I’m sorry, but you’re excused.
You will get notice of our decision at a later time.
; )
Also mark look at Shows numbers against lefties, he is absolutely not useless. Especially in a bullpen with K-rod and Putz, and then a bunch of a guys who can only pitch to right handers.
PROPS TO MATT FOR AN AMAZIN JOB THIS WEEK!!!! LET’S HEAR IT FOR HIM, FOLKS!!!
WE’RE SO LUCKY TO HAVE THIS GUY. Yeah, it’s his job, but he has worked TIRELESSLY to get all the news to us ROUND THE CLOCK!!! So, don’t be shy – GIVE HIM THE LOVE!!!
If the Pads would trade Peavy for Pelf and little else, we would, and should, do it in 1 second.
I love Pelf, but Peavy is young and one of the very best. Big Pelf has a huge upside, but has exactly one half season of very good pitching under his belt.
manny will not be a starting pitcher, lil pelf…
the slider, you are a moron, the chances of omar trading pelfrey and fmart for peavy is 0 percent. 0. it makes absolutely no sense. it solves nothing. you are an idiot.
cver—I second that motion 100% and damn vociferously….Matt is always awesome, but is performing beyond even his high standards this week.
THANK YOU MATT!!!
Mark4212:
Lowe: 3.24 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 211 IP, 147 SO
Garland: 4.90 ERA, 1.51 WHIP, 196.2 IP, 90 SO
The similarities are just obvious…
If we could get Beimel now, we will be getting there, bullpenwise. I know this is probably at least my fourth post advocating him, but then we’d have him and Feliciano as the lefties and we can chuck Sho, preferably for Marquis, if that is doable.
Look, it’s this simple. I don’t think the Padres are trading him. Until I hear otherwise (rumor of some sort), I think we should focus on more realistic, cheaper ideas.
So…what else we got?
gmets,
now that the cubbies are out of the mix, Peavy’s options are running out. The Krukster said that Peavy will now have to be open to being traded to a larger market teams in NY and Boston. So, he may have to consider NY.
Hey, maybe Boston trades for him, and that makes Lowe more available. Ok, I can live with that too.
Trading Pelfrey for Peavy creates another hole in the rotation….
lil pelf….you should be right if you are going to use such strong words.
Peavy and Johan would make a Koufax-Seaver, Johnson-Schilling, Pedro-Schilling 1-2 punch. Or better.
Little Tiny Big Pelf has 3 months of good ball behind him and FMart has yet to play major league ball.
You develop prospects and hype them party to trade them. See the Santana trade as exhibit A.
hofmets57
its not how many innings he pitches its whether they are good innings or not.
Oops, Koufax-Drysdale!! Damn, writing too fast…..
Security, please escort Lil Pelf out. He is obviously too emotionally distraught.
Btw Lil Pelf, San Diego is a lovely city. You’ll just love the weather out there. And PETCO Park if very pitcher friendly.
Have fun.
Ok, here is the updated Marquis periphreals:
WHIP: 1.42, k/9: 5.0, k/BB: 1.48, HR/9: 1.19, ERA: 4.59
Too lazy to do ERA+, but I guess its more of the same.
Beimel is supremely overrated. I’d much rather sign Ohman (who’s better IMO) for less. And maybe Brandon Lyon? Haha, I may be getting too greedy…
ok Kingman, just throwing it outthere, based on a lunch conversation with other Met buddies. This is the 1st time I signed on in about 6 months and forgot how scrutinized these posts become. I also wanted to say impress Gina with a good option.lol
The Slider.
The padres don’t have to trade Peavy now they can afford him, it’s not like the Santana situation where he wanted that huge contract and he was about to become a free agent. There’s nothing forcing the Padres hands to trade him this year if they don’t get the deal they want. They’re not going to sell low on one of the best pitchers in baseball to save themselves 12 million dollars.
Silder,
I hope so. Chicago is a bigger market than Boston, so that would probably be his 1st choice followed by NY.
And Boston doesn’t need a SP right now, with Lowe we would have to outbid that Yanks for him and given how much they threw at CC that might be a problem lol.
Hey Captain, yeah I wish we could get Kazmir back, believe me!
But some of thsoe other Rays pitchers do look good indeed, and they just might trade one of them….
If we are looking at the Garlands, Wolfs, Marquises, Perezes and Nieses of the world to solve our 4 and 5 spots in the rotation, we are thinking too small.
We need another top of the rotation pitcher and not a belly-itcher. We are not a small market team. We have the money.
Omar said on the FAN that he wanted another top of the rotation pitcher. Neither Garland, Wolf, Perez, Marquis or Niese fits that term.
Thank the stars for that! After crunching these numbers all day for those guys, I dont want any of them. Front end, back end, bullpen, or batting practice.
Gina,
Towers had been given order from the owners to trim the team’s payroll from $75 million to $40 million before the start of the season.
They already dumped Khalil Green. This is just the beginning. Now is the time to swoop in for the kill.
Id also think if Padres would take Pelfry as a centerpiece for Peavy if he’d accept NY, then jump on it while Pelfry’s stock is up. Pelfry is horrible, I seen him pitch about 6 games live this season and the mets loss everyone of his starts. Sell High! Peavy is the man!
@332, you can’t be serious. In no way do we NEED another top flight starter. A GOOD starter, yes. And one #5 to battle Niese for the spot.
? (flabbergasted)
Whoa, whoa, whoa…
Say what you want about him being worth traded or not, The Captain, but horrible? Your opinion is officially null and void.
Krod9,
You are thinking too small my friend. Besides, Omar happens to have already gone on records and he disagrees with you.
Get Manny- this offense, which has crumbled down the stretch the last THREE seasons, is in desperate need of an upgrade. If not, Ibanez and Hudson should be brought in, and possibly I. Rodriguez to replace Schneider, who is bad. 2 of 3 of 2b, Lf, C need to be upgraded- and at least 1 big pitcher has to be brought in. If the NYY are going to get 3 of 4 of Burnett, Sabathia, Lowe, and Sheets, there is no reason we can’t get one.
peavy is not happening, you are wasting time. we should be discussing how to sign manny and ollie for decent prices.
I’m not saying don’t try. Just that I’d rather we get a good bat first.
and pelfry was great last year, who cares what he did in games you went to,,, LETS GET MANNY
I think the only thing in there that made sense was – “Get Manny”. The rest…
@mistermet
Omar said that he’s going after more pitching before he addresses the position players.
Mistermet- No Pudge. No Pudge. No Pudge.
Manny and Dunn should be the two guys competing to sign for left, similarly to what we did for the closer. It worked then, and it could only help now.
O-Dog is nice, but I may even wait to sign him after the starters.
Why not more talk about Beimel, considering he’s quietly one of the top relievers and he’s available. Anyone know if we have to give up draft picks for him? Why the hell hasn’t Omar, or someone else for that matter, snatched this guy up – Look at these stats!!!:
2006 -08
W L ERA G IP H R ER HR HBP BB S
2 1 2.96 62 70.0 70 26 23 7 0 21 30
4 2 3.88 83 67.1 63 30 29 1 1 24 39
5 1 2.02 71 49.0 50 11 11 0 3 21 32
@krod9,
Dude, with Dunn and Manny on either side of Beltran, you’re going to kill him with all the ground he would have to cover.
Sheesh.
Sorry, the last stat on there for Beimel that says “S” is supposed to say “SO” for strikeouts.
Slider, not both. Compete for one of Dunn or Manny. I’d be happy with either.
Eddie C and Sweeny Murti are on the FAN talking Mets and hot stove.
@krod9,
Oh, gotya.
im getting bored of this post
The Slider,
That is silly, short sighted. No reason you can’t do both at the same time. If you take 30 days, say, to “address your pitching,” there will be no offensive players left to get.
@mistermet
Well, don’t yell at me. Yell at Omar. But, pitching wins championships. Omar said that he is basically content with the offense. Yes, he’d love Manny, but “pitching wins championships.”
That’s what he said.
I’m tired of hearing that the pitching must be completely addressed before looking at offense- this is a big market team, they can do both at the same time…We’re certainly paying enough for tickets. Fred should start acting like a big market owner. Get Manny now.
@mistermet,
Oh, I agree with you 100%. We should be locking up all these people. Manny, Hudson, Peavy etc.
I’m for all of it. But, Wilpon has Omar on a budget. Again.
Hey Matt.
Outstanding work on these winter meetings.
You were the source, baby!
Great job!
Hope you can get some sleep real soon.
Thank you, I enjoyed checking in like every hour!
Hey guys..
I think that the O’Day and Cherry picks where more important than ppl think… O’Day may be our last answer for our pen IMO and Cherry i heard has pretty good gas…
mistermet, the Mets DO act like a big market team! Look at their payroll and where it stands compared to other clubs…look at what we have done already for 2009 and it is Dec 11th!
Great pitching does in fact win titles, and getting Peavy would be the very best thing we could do.
ill drink to that
agreed metsflip; these were great selections and they will pay dividends
The Slider,
Manny, Hudson, Peavy???
Have you ever to thought to yourself… “Hmm perhaps what I’m saying is unrealistic and nonsensical…Oh what the heck, I’ll say it anyway!”
Oh, and the person who said Pelfrey is horrible is a full fledge dimwit.
I think Marquis would be a good pick up, but Omar and the Mets need to get Jon Garland he’s consistant and so under rated and did help the White sox win their championship what a good fit for the Mets He would be.
Garland is now consistently mediocre at best.
I’m in love with Gina. Any woman that knows so much about baseball is irresistible. :)
Why can’t the Mets go after Holiday in trade and throw Castillo in for free, move Murphy to second and I know he’s platooning with Tatis until Delgado Retires when they will move Murphy to first. blah blah blah. I know I’m probably off my rocker, but you get that way after being a Mets fan for twenty three years.
It looks like Cherry is a sidewinder. Is that true? Maybe he can replace Smith as our ROOGY?
Kingman,
This is the 2nd richest team in baseball, and yet their payroll is going to be 70-90 million less than the Yankees’ payroll. That is unacceptable to me as a fan, given the Mets soaring revenue streams. Tired of hearing about the budget- it should be 30-40 million higher
@Electric
You dope, That’s because Gina is not a girl.
Ugggghhhhhh.
OOps. my bad. lol
Garland would still be a good fit
listen, I went to about 8 games last season, what are the odds of pelfry starting 7 of thoses game, and what are the odds of him losing all of those games ? And if I call him horrible, Im a what? Yes I’ll say it again, he’s horrible and if he still came out with good stats at the end of the season well gd for him. So I say trade him (sell high)while he got value because I know the truth about Pelfry’s play.
mike pelfrey is not a #2 starter. at least not on a playoff team.
we need a top of the rotation guy and Sheets and Lowe are the top 2 available
after that there is noone. so if those 2 are not going to be mets then we have to just hope Olli accepts arbitration.
no reason for Omar to sign Garland or Wolf just to say we signed a starter. if they arent top notch guys we cant bring them in here and expect them to be
@elastic
I know. It must be difficult to have to confront your repressed inner conflicts. It’s ok. I think that Congress should let you people marry just like everybody else.
You’re accepted and loved here on this forum just like everybody else.
Peavy could shove it, why wouldn’t you want to play on the same team as K-Rod, Santana, Putz, Pelfrey, Niese, Parnell, Maine, and a chance to Win.
@addictivtomets
I think he will now be open to the idea. He gets the chance to compete for a World Series ring. And he can kind of hide from the media with all the other talent on the team.
I think it’s a no-brainer.
“You’re accepted and loved here on this forum just like everybody else.”
…except philly fans
@jamie
I stand corrected. Thank you.
@ Slider
My nickname may be weird, but Gina is definitely a chick name in my book.