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In an interview with Central Maine Sports Blog, Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com said the Yankees and Braves are no longer interested in free-agent RHP Derek Lowe.
Additionally, Crasnick says, “The Red Sox would only be interested if he comes cheap, the Phillies just spent $30 million on Raul Ibanez, and the Dodgers don’t expect to bring him back.”
As such, Crasnick sees the Mets as the front-runners.
…hat tip to MLB Trade Rumors for the link…
…from what i can gather, the Mets would be willing to give lowe a similar contract to what they gave Francisco Rodriguez, i.e., a three-year deal, worth roughly $12 million per season…however, i believe it will take more money per year to get him, mostly because at that level other teams will become interested…i do believe he can be had for a three-year deal, though it may need to cost four years before all is said and done…we’ll see…
…the buzz in baseball seems to be that, with CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett in the mix, and a deal with Andy Pettitte on the horizon, the Yankees are more likely to sign a fourth pitcher to a short-term deal, than they are to sign lowe to a long-term deal…that said, they’re the Yankees, so who the hell knows what they’re thinking…
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Lets get Lowe, This lefty japanese pokemon character for our bullpen and call it an offseason with MANNY RAMIREZ. I really think that this diverse ballclub hasnt won because a japanese player has been missing to this multi cultural team. OK im lying, but i guess it might help to bring him on.
anyways, Omar get those three guys and you’ll definitely be God to us.
MANNY ‘09
The Mets have about $20 mil more before their payroll is the same as last yr, they can afford to get Lowe. hopefully for only 3 yrs though.
i agree with us needing lowe but i dont care about this wannabee dice k and i really dont see us signing manny he wants too much
Exactly- and no reason the payroll can’t go up 10-15 million on the heels of a new stadium and with SNY, etc.
The Mets should also be in on Sheets…any news about him lately? Haven’t seen much other than hearing ATL and NYY are interested.
And I want Manny so bad. The Mets offense withered and crumbled down the stretch the last 3 years…yet nobody seems to talk about that enough. Manny would ensure that does not happen again.
3 years?…06 season?..they were nasty…that 06 ball club was great…the past two years there bats went cold towards the end of the season..other than that it wasnt bad…the bullpen was the problem last year..at least the biggest problem…however im all for getting manny..if we can get manny and lowe to end the winter…ill say we are the team to beat..until then they have to prove it to me
Yeah, I think that Lowe is actually a better free agent than A. J. Burnett was. I mean, at his best, AJ Burnett has some nasty stuff. On the other hand, he’s coming off a career year and is very injury-proned. The next Carl Pavano? I think so. I mean, look at his no-hitter in 2001. What stands out to you; the no hits, or the NINE walks? Derek Lowe wouldve been a better choice for the Yankees, and he’ll definitely be a nice 1-2 punch with Johan. And I agree with dannyguira; sign Manny. Just give him a nice 2-year deal and bring him and his righty bat in.
AMEN TO THAT!
that’s good. at least lowe isnt 40 yrs old….yet. look omar, JUST SIGN MANNY AND TAKE US TO THE WORLD SERIES!!!!
I think Derek Lowe is EXACTLY what the Mets need to be a real contender. He’s reliable, you know what you’re going to get from him. He’s a leader, he’ll be great in the clubhouse. These are all things the Mets need from a starting pitcher.
Except that Wilpon just lost 300 million dollars in a Ponzi scheme!
Bring back the old format for comments!!!! I hate this format.
I Would Be Happy If We Got Lowe And Perez.who Would You Guys Want?
i think they should look into what manny wants first
is there actually any news as to what manny himself wants?
I do not think many people realize just how much this team is in a win now mode. The window of opportunity is upon us and we are in a moment of severe urgency. With the team currently constructed, there’s only two to three years left to get it done and there’s no better time to win in sight. Omar pulled off the trade for Putz and he’ll be here for the next two seasons before he leaves via free agency, goes elsewhere, and becomes a closer once again. Also, take into consideration, the fact that the front office has made no effort to move Delgado even during an offseason where Texieria could have made for the perfect long term solution. In a few years, Wright and Reyes will be set for their big paydays. Go ahead and add Pelfrey’s name to that list as well, it’s only a matter of time. How will those large contracts effect us in filling the other glaring holes that the team will be set to face?
That is why, we must sign Manny and Lowe/Ollie. If this were a game of poker, we really find ourselves so pot-committed where we must go all in. There is no turning back. Let’s win one, it’s in our reach. It is time to bring home a World Series title, my friends. Let’s Go Mets!
Lets make it happen
Who Do You Guys Think The Mets Need More Ollie Or Lowe?
In addition to my last comment…..
I think the Schoeneweis trade and the rumors surfacing of this Japanese pitcher are a sign of the bigger plan in store for this team. Omar can and should scrimp out on the final touches to the bullpen. You get one of these foreign arms like Takahashi taking league minimum, minor league contract, you take it and run. He doesn’t even look too bad. With his quick deceptive motion, I could totally see the Phillies lefties having problems. Also the question of 5th starter, you find someone off the scrap heap who is capable, cheap, and eats innings: Tim Redding, Daniel Cabrera, Odalis Perez, whoever fits the bill. We must save every dollar possible and use it towards a run at Lowe/Ollie and Manny.
37.5 million, 3 years for Lowe/Ollie.
55 million, 3 years for Manny.
wright on!
i would give manny 4 years..he is looking for 5 or 6 years…i would give him 4 years..
Patience is key here.
Wait it out. I can’t see Lowe signing with any other club from here on out without calling the Mets to see if they can top the offer, now that the Braves and Yankees are out of it.
Lowe, he’s more consistent, and then try for a Garland/Wold for the 5 spot, if there to much forget about them and keep Neis.. but go all in for Manny Ramirez!
Hey, lets look @Manny from an average baseball fans perspective. Just think years ago when we hated the yankees for signing every top FA. Well these last couple of Met years, Carlos Beltran, Carlos Delgado, Johan Santana, now K Rod. I think Manny is over kill. Let Omar and the Met scouting department pull a rabbit out the hat……….. and see what they come up with. Manny is the obvious free agent talant available and might not be necessary
Forget Resigning Pedro Unless For A Discount! You Guys Agree
Get Lowe in here, junk castillo ANY way we can and go after O dog.
the captain
with all due respect…are you crazy?..after the past two years you are gonna say after getting not only k-rod and putz…but getting rid of basically our whole bullpen…we shouldnt think about getting manny?..we need these players to forget about the past two years
I would resign olie before getting lowe. Lowe is extremely overrated. No one has ever been that high on this guy and now hes a big shot all of a sudden at age 36-37. No way! hes a mistake! He had some decent numbers in a terrible division. Look at his numbers while he was on the red sox… pretty average. hes not worth the fifteen or sixteen million per year he wants. I’d rather resign Olie, at least we know what hes capable of and he wont completely disappoint us. And Olie always picthes good when we need him to. He always shuts down the phils too. Resign Olie, sign MANNY!
I think if we get Lowe…it will be a huge improvement to our staff. This will make us deffintely the team to beat. Go for it Omar!
I think if we get Lowe…it will be a huge improvement to our staff. This will make us deffintely the team to beat. Go for it Omar!
Orlando Hudson is the worst use of team’s resources. There is no way possible to get rid of Castillo’s contract. Like it or not, we are stuck with him. Louie and Schneider really make for a black hole in terms of hitting. Signing Hudson though is not the answer. The only way to fix it is to nullify the non-production from those two spots, with above average production coming elsewhere in the lineup. And, that comes through the bat of Manny Ramirez.
I dig.
We only need 1 of Sheets/Lowe/Perez and hopefully Omar will get us a trade for #5 to compete with Pedro/Garcia/Niese, although I wouldn’t mind Randy Johnson.
Then Tex, Manny or Dunn. Just no Abreboo or Burrell.
Sign Koji Uehara instead. He’ll cost fewer years and salary. He has a lot of pitches so he’ll be more like Hiroki Kurda rather than Kei Igawa.
Captain, my friend, you need a bit of a baseball refresher course…we got Johan in a trade, and we got Delgado in a trade….
Case, I agree completely with this post.
And Philnym31, thank you for stating the obvious wisdom on the mysteriously overvalued (well, maybe just by some on this site) Hudson.
If Omar gets Lowe to go with KRod and Putz, AND getting rid of Schoeneweis, Omar deserves some sort of pitching staff reconstruction medal.
Yes to Randy Johnson if we get Lowe. Then, with Johan, Lowe, and Pelf, and very possibly Maine, we can take the risk of Johnson’s being injured, considering his ma*sive upside and getting win 300 in a Met uni.
The priorities should be to sign a pitcher for 2-3 years, with the following preferences
1. Sheets (best quality, in his prime)
2. Lowe (past his prime, but durable and not so injury prone (knock wood))
3. Ollie (young, but wild– over 100 walks last year. Can’t make it through the 6th inning, on average.)
Manny is tempting– I think his “problems” in Boston were staged by Boras and Manny himself to get out of his contract and onto the free agent market (a strategy which may hurt him as many teams turn their backs on one of the great hitters of our era.) The problem is that if Texeira goes to Boston (or NY or wherever), the Angels will need Manny to shore up their lineup. If the Angels keep Tex, then the Mets have a chance, since the Yanks and Sox won’t go for him. Wait and see…
Forget Lowe, go after Sheets.
Also, forget Hudson and Manny, go after Tex and trade Delgado.
I really think that manny is going to be a met. nobody expected beltran to be a met and look what happened. thats why the mets let ibanez get away
This is very good news. Lowe is exactly what we need…he’s a reliable veteran who flat out knows how to pitch, and he’s never been on the DL, so chances are we are going to get our money’s worth. If anything, he is a solid #2 or #3 so we can slide Maine down a slot and put less pressure on Niese. Give Omar credit if he lands Lowe, because it will be because he waited…he waited for everyone to sign other guys and he’s gonna take whoever is left, which isn’t a bad idea since there were many options this year.
And say no to the Jap…he will get killed in the US.
I think the only downside to Manny is it would take around 4 years and 20 mil a year to land him, which I’m not too sure Omar will give him. Other than that, Manny is a win-win situation because he is the best hitter in the game, period. His defense will be average to below average, but considering who we have in LF right now it’s not too much of a difference.
If he wants to win and he is willing to do it for a 2-3 year deal worth 16 a year, then let him come to NY. Otherwise, let the Dodgers overpay him.
If they would sign Lowe and Manny we are set and we can afford to have Neise as a number 5 Heck I would even keep slappy around
Milton Bradley will be a better sign for the Mets, he is younger and can hit, and will cost alot less than Manny, and both of them has mental problems.
so we are not going to miss out in some crazy things.
“I don’t want there to be a controversy or the other ballclubs in that division to take it personally or take it in a bad way,” he said. “If they ask me, ‘Oh, which ballclub is going to win the National League East?’ It’s going to be the Mets. Easy question.” – K-Rod
What the hell? Do we have to hear this crap every year? Rollins, Beltran, now K-Rod. Just cut the crap and play some freaking ball.
at this point: adding manny = world series. period.
What Move Do You Guys Like Better The K Rod Signing Or The Putz Trade?
obviously putz, many think when healthy he is better than krod
I think the KRod signing may have been bigger, but the Putz signing has more potential upside, as basiclaly we are all expecting 45 saves from KRod, but Putz could be as good or even better if healthy….he can be a seriously lights-out 8th inning guy.
As for Bradley, in addition to having serious mental issues, the guy will be 31, and has managed to do better than appear in 126 games with 414 at bats like last year ONE TIME in his career before 2008……126 games and 414 AB are his 2nd best career numbers. He is nuts, a jerk, and cannot stay healthy. He is absolutely not what we need, and I would be anything that Omar does not consider him for 5 seconds. I hope.
Manny or Dunn, or even a Tatis/Murph platoon would be better than this injury-prone psycho jerk.
If you get Derek Lowe at a 3 year, $45 million contract, Omar, I will call you an Angel.
From what ive heard the Mets have about $32 or so million left to use.
I think that the should
1. Sign (1 of them) Lowe, Sheets or Perez
2. Saito didnt accept contract from Dodgers so GO GET HIM!!!
That would cost 14-17mill for the SP+4 mill for Saito= At most 21million
3rd Sign DUNN FOR 9 MILLion.
Trade to get someone to fill in 5th spot till Niese is ready
Just a thought, tell me if u would do this
13 for lowe, 18-19 for manny?
We need one more good reliever. Sign either Cordero, Ohman, Guardado, or Saito. Additionally, we need one of Lowe, Sheets, or Perez. Then, we need to add either a 2B or LF. I like Adam Dunn, personally. That really solidifies our needs, but we could always improve in other areas.
I like it Metsfan….Saito, if possible for 4 mil, added to KRod and Putz, makes our pen unreal, with Feliciano, Sanchez, Stokes, and maybe Cordero for the 6th and 7th…..and I think we need Lowe’s reliability over Sheets, who will be hurt by Memorial Day for sure. If not, then Ollie works.
And I doubt Dunn can be gotten for less than Ibanez, who got 10 mil. But if he could be, do it today, for as few years as possible though.
And Randy Johnson works for me as 5th spot. NO PEDRO.
How about Koji Uehara for #5?
I Think We Should Trade For Michael Young At Platoon Him At 2nd With Jose At Ss
krod9
“I like Adam Dunn, personally. That really solidifies our needs,”
no ofense, but you must be kidding. dunn is a schlub…and he bats lefty! he would make NO DIFFERENCE. NONE. manny is THE answer. believe it.
I Think We Should Trade For Michael Young And Platoon Him At 2nd With Jose At Ss
Manny is not the answer. If he’s cheap, then yes. But that isn’t going to happen most likely, so Dunn is the man. Because listen–we don’t really have much to improve offensively. Our money is better served upgrading pitching and (hopefully) shipping out Castillo for a better 2B.
Michael Young would be a solid pickup. I like him alot (better than Hudson) and if he could be had relatively easily, I’d like him.
I’ll take Bradley over Dunn any time. Saito w’ll a very nice addition to the BP, a 27 outs game w’ll became a 21 affair.
get lowe, ohman, and juan river and a bench player or two and we are set to make a serious run at a world championship and shut the philis up.
HOPE THEY KNOW WE GAVE THEM 2 DIVISIONS IN A ROW THEY REALY WEREN”T BETTER THEN US.
They should thank us
I also like Bradley. But, I think the Cubs will get him, and he’s probably insane.
I Think We Should Trade Beltran And Get Some Solid Young Talent. He Can Be Overrated At Times
I don’t know…I’m probably in the minority here but I’d rather have Ollie. Not that a signing of Lowe wouldn’t be good – just rather have Ollie. Ollie’s a left hander, almost 10 years younger and I still believe he can be more consistent. Saw some shades of that last year.
Actually, like to see them both signed. Then we’ve got our starting 5…..
@62
Umm, no…Beltran is one of the best outfielders in baseball. And besides, who would fill that position for us? Btw, stop talking in all caps. No One Will Take You Seriously.
I also like Juan Rivera. Get Rivera, Lowe, Saito, Hudson- and go to war. Just eat Castillo’s contract if you need to…The Mets are the 2nd richest team in MLB, eating 5-6 million over the next 3 years is not going to be the end of the world.
Lowe and Perez our not worth asking prices. trade for a pitcher. Sign Manny unless this team wants to choke 3 years in a row.
Hammels is 100% CHOKE< CHOKE CHOKE!!!
We can get all the pitchers we want, but the problem is with the everyday players. They lack the killer instinct. They let teams walk all over them. Until that ends, they will contiune to collapse.
That is why, the Mets need Manny. He won’t take garbage from the other teams. He will be a headache, but the attitude he brings is what this team needs to get to the next level.
i would of loved to have kerry wood . what bout you guys?
Everyone is looking at this the wrong way, for the price we would get lowe we can sign 2 starters and give niese 1 more year to get ready. Let’s go with Wolfe and recently released Daniel cabrera, 26 years old with high 90s fastball. I’m sold, add Hudson for 2nd base and then saito and call it a winter.
Love the Michael Young idea but he wouldn’t be cheap. 4 time all star, .300 lifetime hitter. Great talent. To even start the discussion would probably be Niese & F-Mart. At some point I’d like to see some of our young guys make it to the bigs in Orange & Blue. With that I’m hoping we spend the money on FA’s while our prospects get some seasoning.
Everyone who talks about everyday players, you’re wrong. The core is not—-repeat, not—–the problem.
Cannonboy,
You are dead on. All the talk at the end of the year was how the Mets lacked guts, killer instinct, intestinal fortitude, etc, and how they desperately needed to add a few hardnose, gutsy players to their everyday lineup. You cannot go into 2009 with the exact same starting 8. In my opinion, 3 or 4 out of C, 1B, 2B, LF, and even RF needs to be changed. Just adding Manny though would be huge. But if that can’t happen, at minimum I’d change the catcher (Pudge? Varitek), and put someone like Juan Rivera in LF…and obviously Castillo cannot come back under ANY circumstances- just eat the money if need be, this team can afford to swallow 5-6 million over the next 3 years. But I want to know why all the talk has stopped about adding gritty players to the Mets lineup…why has that stopped? It’s not enough to just add a few pitchers, the culture/psyche (after 3 collapses) has to be changed, and that starts with changing at least 2-3 offensive players, just for the sake of change. This is imperative and I pray the GM understands this.
They’re only willing to go 3 years 12 million? That seems kind of ridiculously low. I mean I won’t complain if he signs for that but still.
Also Michael Young is owed 16 million per for the next 4 years, is terrible defensively, and is declining RAPIDLY offensively. I know huge rangers fan and according to him most Rangers fans would be willing to trade him for any prospect just to get rid of his terrible contract. He’d basically be a super expensive version of Castillo.
Cannonboy—the core is excellent, and the improvement to the bullpen will show this.
mistermet–Pudge? Varitek? How about Bench or Yogi Berra?
Bradley or Manny, but we need one of them.
Manny would be nice, and he protects against a down turn in delgado (who lets face it was so good the second half of last year it would be unreasonable to think he’ll repeat) but i dont think manny is happening too much money involved for to many years
Bradley is a switch hitter (awesome stats from the RH side) , and yes he’s injury prone but if he gives you 400 abs with murphy and tatis spelling him it could be a nice pick up.
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Bradley
Church
Schneider
Castillo
really like 1-6, but fearing the 8 hole
Gina
Thanks for the facts on M Young. Didn’t know that. I’ll cross him off my wish list and stick with O-Dog as the best 2nd Base option. Although, I’m almost resigned to the fact that the unmoveable Castillo will be patrolling the infield.
Manny and Lowe/Ollie is the answer.
Agreed. Manny, Lowe, + Biemel and I’d be a very happy camper.
Manny and Lowe/Ollie sure would be an awesome answer…..probably the very best possible answer from what is left….
give manny 2 yrs for $50 mil with a 3rd option.
Just for kicks. If the Mets were the Yankee’s would the line up look like
Reyes
Hudson
Beltran
Manny
Wright
Texiera
Church
Saltalamachia
I’d love to see Saito/Sheets or Saito/Lowe. C’mon guys…Saito is a beast!! Imagine having 3 closers? One for the 7th 8th and 9th? Awesome.
I do not think many people realize just how much this team is in a win now mode. The window of opportunity is upon us. We are in a moment of severe urgency. There is no better time in sight to win than now. With the team currently constructed, there’s only two to three years left to get it done. Omar pulled off the trade for Putz and he’ll be here for the next two seasons before he leaves via free agency, goes elsewhere, and becomes a closer once again. Also, take into consideration, the fact that the front office has made no effort to move Delgado even during an offseason where Texieria could have made for the perfect long term solution. In a few years, Wright and Reyes will be set for their big paydays. Go ahead and add Pelfrey’s name to that list as well, it’s only a matter of time. How will those large contracts effect us in filling the other glaring holes that the team will be set to face?
That is why, we must sign Manny and Lowe/Ollie. If this were a game of poker, we really find ourselves so pot-committed that we’re at a point where we must go all in. There is no turning back. Let’s win one, it’s in our reach. It is time to bring home a World Series title, my friends. Let’s Go Mets!
i know that brad penny was hurt. is it worth a shot for him for a year or two?
catcher is a real concern. the fat RC’s and miss schneider are not the answer. what about benjie on the cheap?
Can someone please give me the baseball definition of “gritty”??
Perhaps I’m wrong, but I see it as nothing more than something to hype up mediocre to bad players….
Philnym31 i agree. lets go mets
Manny
get him……… like now!
Gritty: a palyer that hardnoised
gritty, adj.: showing courage and resolve; tough and uncompromising
like Philynm31 in post 174 of the Takahashi thread, and posts 14 and 85 in this thread. Did I miss any? I got here late.
No to Milton Bradley. Here’s why:
The guy gets hurt a ton. Last year was his best year in ABs in 4 years, and he topped out at 414. That’s not the worst part. He played 126 games, 9 as a pinch hitter. Of his 117 games where he was permanently in the lineup…
He DHed 97 times! He only played 20 GAMES IN THE OF.
And yet, he still was injured for almost a third of the season.
Bradley’s a fantastic hitter. But he just can’t stay healthy, even as a DH. He’d be Moises all over again.
Except crazy.
What is hard-nosed??? Eckstein is supposedly “hardnosed” but that doesn’t change the fact that he isn’t a very good baseball player.
What makes Aaron Rowand any grittier than, say, Adam Dunn? Absolutely nothing
I know I’ll get flamed for this, but as Penn and Teller would say, it’s BS
gritty= a player who doesn’t afraid of anything
“Bradley’s a fantastic hitter. But he just can’t stay healthy, even as a DH. He’d be Moises all over again.
Except crazy.”
As if urinating deliberately on one’s own hands is perfectly sane.
I know, K-RodPutz. He really is the answer in so many ways. We would actually have a true cleanup hitter. He would just make everyone in this lineup better. Wright especially gets all the pressure taken off his shoulders. He’d explode for a huge year. Also, Manny’s bat neutralizes the non-production we’re receiving from Castillo and Schneider. It really makes all the sense in the world. He puts us over the top and would lead us to the promise land.
dykstra was “gritty”
and as for bradley, he is a delicate schlub that would make NO DIFFERENCE in the standings. heck, might as well resign moises AARP. seriously, SIGN MANNY!!!!!
Phil
“Manny’s bat neutralizes the non-production we’re receiving from Castillo and Schneider.”
thats a good point. the lineup could withstand slappy if we had manny
Gritty: In the Mets dictionary would have pictures of Dykstra/Backman
The last guy I think could be termed gritty on the Mets was LoDuca and he didn’t exactly mix in the clubhouse. Which gets back to the need to change the dynamic by doing something with the everyday lineup outside of Beltran, Wright and Reyes. Something’s missing but with the current crew I don’t know how gritty can survive in this locker room. The current guy I’d call gritty is still standing on third waiting for a sack fly… Murphy.
Sylar:
Generally speaking, I look at “gritty” as code for “white guy that everyone likes.”
That isn’t to say that all white players get called gritty. But how many black/latino players have that word applied to them?
Beltran has a bit of a reputation for not toughing it out through injuries. The guy returned a few weeks after diving into Mike Cameron. That’s gritty. But you never hear him called it.
YES. This made my day. I want Lowe badly.
loduca probably didn’t mix because he was crazy. he also wasn’t very good. so lets not get anymore of those guys.
Maybe I’ve been drinking the kool-aid but I def. want Manny. I agree with other reviewers, Manny is a winner no questions asked, he has that mentality that is missing here, yes we have a really great Core group of players, they are great players but where is the attitude, I am so sick of after some loss or some other team walking all over them they come out with “oh they were the better team, we have to tip our caps to them” please, i am so sick of that. Manny will bring that intangible that we are all looking for and hopefully his attitude will rub off on other players, Reyes, Wright etc.
I have to say get Manny
sign either Lowe/Perez
sign one more arm for the bullpen and then call it
get ready for the world series 2009
gritty means they do the little things to help a team win…
I think Manny would be great because he would provide a fear to the pitcher.
Who really provides fear on the current lineup? Reyes? Wright? Beltran? All nice players but not have me shaking in my boots if I was the opposing pitcher.
Piazza was probably the last feared hitter on the Mets.
This team has to get that player.
Gina:
You’re right, LoDuca was crazy and not in a good way at all towards the end
Dafatone80:
Good call on Beltran. The guy is tough. So much got made of his hamstring issues in his first year here it’s been hard for him to get past it with alot of fans. But last year he basically played all year after double knee surgery last off season and didn’t make one excuse. Yes, he had some feast or famine but he was alway’s giving it all he had.
And who had the lone big hit in the last game, Beltran.
as for the whole gritty conversation, people who thought Beltran was “soft” are simply not intelligent people, in fact, they’re not even average, they’re simple minded. Beltran plays hurt, ALL the time. Does he talk about it? Sure. Because he gets asked about it pretty much every single day of the year. Doesn’t change the fact that he’s out there playing hurt and playing well. I agree though, that this “gritty” lable often goes to white players who aren’t quite the most skilled players, but they appear to try “harder”, they get results, and the media has an easier time attaching themselves to white players (since all the writers are white) so they came up with this label. The fact is, Beltran is as gritty as any player in the game. He is just so athletically gifted that it doesn’t appear like he’s “giving it his all” when he’s out there, like a David Eckstein, who appears to be throwing with his life on the line every time he throws to 1st base. Beltran is just one of those naturally smooth players who has such a natural instinct for the game, that everything just looks so easy for him. He’s truly a special player, because you’re combing that, with the fact that he truly is a gritty player, playing hurt, giving it his all.
Koji Uehara may not be a bad option for the 5th spot. He’s been one of the better pitchers for the Yomiuri Giants and a fairly good innings eater. Given the current state of starting pitching market, I would not be against searching for some bargain prices coming out from Japan. Hiroki Kuroda fared well for the Dodgers this past year. I’ve have read that Uehara might sign for about 3 million dollars or so. Sounds good to me.
Im sure all these guys play hurt and tough. But the fact of the matter is they just lack the killer instinct. They let the other teams come in and have there way with them.
Remember the 86 team. There was no question in there mind that they were going to win the game. The only question, was by how much.
This team just does not have that about them
1. resign ollie
2. sign lowe at any means necessary
— now your rotation is
– Santana
– Lowe
– Pelfrey
– Ollie
– Either Neise or Pedro
3. DO NOT sign sheets. he WILL get hurt
4. try and get manny. if we dont, then its not the end of the world. he only plays when he wants to
5. trade castillo for a bag of baseballs
6. Have murphy play second
7. get 1 more arm for the pen. a middle innings guy
Other possibilities:
- trade this robertson guy to the cubs for marquis
- get michael young for second base
This team wasn’t lacking killer instinct. they were lacking enough good players.
cannonboy
yes the mets are very soft but thats why they need Manny.
As to the 86 team and grit, what about 88? I was born in 1985, so I’m not going to talk from experience, but from what I’ve read and heard, the Mets were just as dominant in 88 and then knocked out in the first round of the playoffs. I know studies (standard deviation scores compared against league average runs scored and allowed) show that the late 80’s Mets were one of the best teams of all time, and the 86 team showed boatloads of heart.
But they also “struggled” in a couple seasons. I’m not saying everything is okay with the current Mets, but I think some significant amount of 06, 07, and 08 was bad luck.
The pen didn’t help, either.
I believe Delgado, Castillo, Reyes, Wright, Church, Beltran, Murphy/Tatis, Schneider/Castro, will comprise the starters, Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, Niese, and O.P. or his replacement will be the rotation. Krod, Putz, Feliciano, Stokes, Sanchez(Omar’s not ready to give up on him yet), Green, Muniz, will comprise the pen, and Evans, Reed, and a utility infielder will come north with the squad.
*** i left out Maine in there. you wouldnt sign pedro unless he wants to be in the pen. neise is in AAA if you need him
Pedro will not be on the team.
Lowe will get the same money Ryan Dempster got…4 years 52 Million.
That is 13 million a year, with a 5th option for 13, buyout for 3-4 million( remember the Glavine deal? This will be of that ilk).
Then the Mets will sign Wolf for 2-3 years, 10-14 Million. That comes to about 17 million. Look for the Mets to deal Castillo (and a prospect – face it, the Royals need a prospect) for Guillen. This is the best possibility to “dump” Castillo’s contract for a RH power Hitter who is only on a one year deal.
Then, sign the O dog….after Delgado is gone next year and his contract is gone, the money rolls to O dog.
Back end the contract like they did with Krod.
Mets need a Righty power bat…Guillen will be playing for a new contract.
elephants
randy wolf for 3 years?????? you must be nuts
what do you guys think would be better lowe/dunn or manny/ollie
why does everyone say, “the 86 team was gritty, why can’t this team be like them?” Does anyone realize that the ‘86 team was extremely talented? They won 108 games, they were a very good/great team. There will never be another 1986 NY Mets team, just forget it already. The 2007 and 2008 teams didn’t make the posteason because they weren’t good enough, bottom line. This “grit” argument is simple minded, it doesn’t mean anything.
I have literally NEVER heard the word “gritty” used to describe a nonwhite baseball player.
The ‘86 team had future MVP candidates riding its bench, and future all-star relievers working garbage time… and deservedly so.
The difference between that team and ‘88? About 12 weeks of rehab, cumulatively, and not running into a historically hot pitcher. (The “gritty” ‘86ers were two wild pitches and an error away from blowing it themselves, ‘member?)
kingman: I think you need to open up and tell us how you really feel about Bradley. Don’t hold it in, its not healthy/
cleonsvan—lol—-great name by the way….
I think the Omar is going to get a good starting pitcher with Lowe or Ollie being one of them, i think were not going to have enough money to get Manny even though he would be a great acquisition, and we all know Omar loves him, But I say get Lowe for 2 years 26 million maybe, or sign Ollie 3 years 36 million. Once one of them get Garland or Wolf depending on which one of Ollie or Lowe, if Lowe get Wold and if Ollie get Garland. So that cleans up the Starting pitch, then I say try and trade for Carl Crawford, yes he might not have the pop we need, but he’ll be a great #2 man behind Reyes who doesn’t strike-out that much, you think the Rays would go far that, and if so who would it cost?
Reyes
Crawford
Wright
Beltran
Delgado
Church
Castro/Schneider
Castillo
Santana
Lowe/Perez
Maine
Pelfrey
Wolf/Garland
Even if the Mets appear to be the front-runners for Lowe, it doesn’t mean we’ll get him. Outside of the K-Rod, the Mets only added 1 million in payroll in the Putz deal because they shaved off Endy, Heilman and part of Schoenweis. Add K-Rod and Tatis and the Mets have spent about 15 million.
Their payroll decreased 30 million coming into the off-season so they’ve still got at least 15 million to work with. The Mets need one more reliever. The Schoenweis opened up a void in the Mets bullpen. They’re down to one lefty reliever. They’ll have Stokes or Parnell as the long man, Green, Feliciano and Sanchez in the middle along with Putz and K-Rod at the end of the game. But they may pursue one of Beimel, Ohman or D. Reyes or Shouse. Beimel’s a good option because he wasn’t offered arbitration. But he’ll be looking for three years. An outside the box idea still may be to trade for Huston Street. Parnell could be trades traight up. His future as a SP will look dim as a Met when they sign a SP to a 3 year deal and Street’s potential as a reliever is more.
So with that remaining 15 million, I’d use 3 year/12 million on Beimel, 3 year/33 million on Perez or Garland (Lowe will get either 3 year/51MM or 4 year/60MM). The payroll would be the same up to that point. Than the payroll will jump about 4 or 5 million after arbitration with Church, Maine, Feliciano, Sanchez and Reed.
So the payroll would be at around 143 million. They’d probably try to get Marquis in a trade if the Cubs were to pay at least 3 or 4 million of it. If they were to do this, the payroll jumps about 10% to 150 million similar to last season. Both starting pitching and the bullpen are higher priorities than the line-up. I want them to trade Castillo, but I don’t know how likely that is. If he’s going to be here, they should re-sign Easley who wasn’t a bad hitter. Castillo’s an 8 hitter at best and that’s exactly what Schneider and Castro are too so pursuing a catcher who actually has a bat like Bengie Molina’s not a bad idea.
“Beltran has a bit of a reputation for not toughing it out through injuries. The guy returned a few weeks after diving into Mike Cameron. That’s gritty. But you never hear him called it.”
I agree. didn’t he play the whole 2007 with crappy knees and still won a GG award and had a good year? Never heard him complain about his knees…
Would You Guys Rather Resign Ollie Or Sign D Lowe?
1. SS Reyes
2. LF Murphy
3. 3B Wright
4. CF Beltran
5. 1B Delgado
6. RF Church
7. 2B Easley
8. C Schneider
Bench: Castro, Castillo, Tatis, Reed, Pagan (Evans, Anderson not on team)
Rotation: Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, Perez or Garland, Marquis
Bullpen: Stokes, Green, Feliciano, Sanchez, Beimel, Putz, K-Rod
This is the roster I’d ideally expect. Anything that happens with the line-up is a suprise. Trading Castillo for Guillen hikes the payroll 6 million next season and signing Hudson (or Furcal) at 2B rises it 10-12 million too. So they’d have to be willing to let the payroll be like 167 million in this scenario. Or at least 160 with Niese or Parnell as the 5 and no Marquis.
I agree with you Leiter and Darkstar on the whole “gritty” issue….although I have to disagree on it being limited to white players. You’re now seeing the “gritty” label attached to the Phillies when they simply just get hot at the right times. This idiotic argument that “if only our current team was like the 1986 team” is ridiculous. We got a pretty damn good team out there. Are there problems?….of course. But at the same time, we have one of the best shortstops, center fielders, starting and now relief pitching IN BASEBALL. I personally think that a lot of people on here claiming to be Mets fans are simply wolves in sheep’s clothing….in other words, they’re Yankees fans. That 1986 team won 100+ games! There has never been and never will be a team like that again….and the Mets were a catch from Bill Buckner away from LOSING the world series that year….so please, STOP with the ridiculous argument that the 1986 team was “gritty” and better. Yes, they were an outstanding team….but these are different times. A team like that would not cost a mere $140 million, likely it would cost DOUBLE that today.
And can we please stop with the Manny Kool-Aid?! He’s a good player, but he’s not exactly 21 years old people! And CannonBoy….Manny didn’t exactly put the fear into the Phillies pitchers during the NLCS, did he?
I don’t want Manny on the Mets for the exact reason during the NLCS….against Philly, he freezes and completely loses it. Charlie Manuel knows him better than anyone else….he knows what pitches he likes, and what pitches he doesn’t like. You think Philly likes us now, wait til they see Manny in the lineup….they’ll love us even more then!
NtNYM3: Ollie. he may be a head case at times, but he’s our head case…
To the Lowe or Perez question, Lowe by a long shot but it could depend on the contract. Ollie’s not worth more than 3 years. He’s too risky. There’s more incentive to signing him than Garland or Wolf because he’s got more potential than Garland (and is left-handed) and Wolf only started 76 games in the past 4 seasons due to injuries. Ex-Met Braden Looper really hasn’t been mentioned, but his 12-14 4.16 199 IP in 33 starts are worth noting too. Ollie’s worth 3 year/39 million at most. It’d probably be like 3 year/36 million with a team option for 12 million with a 3 million buyout. Lowe’s worth the 4th year because he’s got experience and is dependable. So I’d give him 3 year/42 million or 4 year/52 million at most.
nyj0126: Like the way you’re thinking… except for Beimel– 3/12 (or 10, for that matter) is like signing a poor man’s Scho (more baserunners/walks, and doesn’t miss as many bats) for more clams. Would rather go with Ohman or Guardado– or evenTakahashi– as LOOGY #2.
Amazings: Who would you give the Rays in return for their best OF– one of the best all-around players in the game? Castillo? One year of Delgado? Parnell and “prospects”?
Ollie’s really developed here. We gave up a good OF in Xavier Nady to get him and it’d justify that transaction more to hold onto him. In my opinion, he’s better than Maine. I can’t say the same about Garland or Wolf, although I definitely can with Lowe. The market will be more intrigued with Lowe though. How often have you really heard Perez’s name out there? I heard the Brave may be interested, but they’ll only spend so much. So I say the only incentive to letting Perez go if the Mets were to sign Wolf is that they’d get similar picks back to the ones they lost for K-Rod. But it should be Lowe and Perez at the top of the list, followed by Garland, Wolf and Pettite (if he’s willing to be a Met).
You Think Beltran Is Gritty. An Example Of Gritty Is (Nails) Lenny Dykstra.
3 year/12 million seems to be the going rate for a left-handed set up man. Beimel’s had solid numbers over the past three year. As has Dennys Reyes. They’re both the same age. I like Ohman too, but I don’t think he’s that proven. The Schoenweis signing was unjustifiable because he was only good for a couple months. Bradford wanted the same deal and had a great year with us. So I think Beimel’s above him. So I’d say to Beimel, Reyes and Ohman – who ever is willing to take 2 year/7 or 8 million first is a Met. If Rhodes were still on the market, he probably would have made the most sense. Shouse is still out there though and will probably only take one year.
Part of me– the part that is drawn to the heartache of Mets fandom, I guess– wants Ollie back because he feels like OUR headache (also, inconsistency aside, he’s been pretty money against the Phils the last two years… and the Yankees).
But ultimately, if you’re handing them the same contract, and you’re looking for a dependable, battle-tested sidekick for Johan… it HAS to be a guy like Lowe, right? (Or Sheets for an incentive-loaded 2-year deal, as long as we’re gambling on Putz’s elbow.)
Also, Easley is a free agent. And he ain’t coming back. Like it or not, we’re riding with Castillo unless Murphy somehow becomes an All-star there or Luis’ sore legs fall off, mid-game.
(Am liking the idea of pitching Ty Wigs– nontendered by Houston– a contract to be our superutility guy.)
Actually, nyj– we gave up Nady for Roberto Hernandez… Ollie was just a Maine-y happy surprise.
Not resigning Ollie isn’t a matter of being unhappy with him– he’s pitched two of the best games I’ve seen in person the last two years– but a matter of value. At the price we paid for him, he’s been a tremendous value… but at 3/45 or 4/54, he’s overpriced. (Ollie AVERAGED about 5 1/3 innings a start for the YEAR.)
The Mets current salary stands to be at $135.5M (40 man) depending on arbitration for Church, Feliciano, Sanchez, Maine and Reed.
So how do the Mets improve the team without breaking the bank?
Beimel’s WHIP last year against LEFTIES– as a LOOGY, his “target demographic,” no?– was above 1.40… his K/BB ratio even in good years is about 1.4:1 (nowhere near acceptable for someone you’re bringing in in high-leverage situations).
NtNYM3 says:
December 14th, 2008 at 12:28 am
You Think Beltran Is Gritty. An Example Of Gritty Is (Nails) Lenny Dykstra.
This is exactly the kind of simple minded thinking i’m talking about. It always comes back to the ‘86 team, and it always comes back to a white player. Just leave it people. Nails was nails, beltran is beltran. I mean really, this is ridiculous.
@ Case:
Save money on the margins– including the 5th slot competition for Niese and the rest of the pen.
–Bring in 3-4 “washed-up” veteran lefties– Fossum, e.g.– on minor-league contracts. Make spring training into a LOOGY Deathmatch. (Worked for Tampa last year… and most every division winner on a budget.)
–Same with the 5th slot– maybe Matt Clement?
–As for the bench… incentive-loaded deal for nontendered FAs Wigginton or Hairston?
Beimel is a slightly better version of Schoenweis. No thanks
LeiterMilnerFasterStronger, what about lineup and the other starter?
Clement signed with the Blue Jays
darkstar73: Exactly…Thank you…
who do you guys think has a lower era next year putz or k rod. highest bat average
I would be thrilled if we could get Lowe and if we got Beimel also, even better. Then, it we would probably only need one more good reliever, a left fielder and a second baseman (so 5 players altogether now extra to make a really good team). Wigginton at 2B would be nice. Maybe Murphy could handle it, not sure. Then there’s also Hudson. Leftfield – I dunno. Dunn and Manny would be a bit budget busting after Lowe and the rest, I suppose. I’d even take Burrell, although I know that’s extremely unpopular.
Doesn’t matter, no more late inning comebacks. Now if only Omar can get me Ayala. I like him for the 7th. Imagine how improved he’d be going from the 9th to the 7th.
If I had to bet, I’d say we sign Lowe, trade for Marquis, and sign either Abreu or Bradley. I could also see us picking up that old Japanese pitcher, or another lefty out of the pen. I’m not a big Lowe fan, but if we can get him at 3/42, I’d be cool with that.
Santana
Pelfrey
Lowe
Maine
Marquis
Reyes
Murphy
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Bradley
Castillo
Schneider
Krod
Putz
Green
Sanchez
Feliciano
LOOGY
Parnell
Solid, solid team.
@ Case:
OF: Cheaper platoon/bench option (Rivera? Thames?) or undervalued starting one (Abreu/Dunn) in OF? Or just ride with what we have (Beltran, Church, Murphy/Tatis, Reed-as-Endy).
5th Starter: Randy Johnson or Penny for 1 yr/as long as his back lasts? Koji Uehara? Multiple flyers on Redding, et. al.?
We have backup 3B/1B options already, in Tatis/Evans/Murphy (who came up through the minors at 3B).
Another reason to like Dunn, BTW? He’s an option at both LF or 1B (albeit a rangeless one) in case of injuries or slumps (or in the case of good ol’ Fernando, regression to the mean).
Case:
Think Ayala’s last month helped– display of versatility, whatever-it-takes “guttiness”– or hurt– ERA+ of 77– his FA prospects?
And don’t you think Dirty will come back to lay claim to the 7th?
Oh, yeah– there’s also Capuano! (Nontendered by MIL)
Nearlyl a solid team written above, but I can’t give it my total seal of approval, because the entire bottom 3 in the lineup blow – Castillo, Schneider and Pitcher just cannot be! And just imagine the crap they’d throw to Bradley when the pitcher knows he has 3 nearly instant outs behind him. We HAVE to upgrade our 2B offense, since an upgrade at catcher would be much more difficult.
Yeah, I’m hoping for Ollie or Sheets, Marquis or Johnson, and Rivera. Don’t know who’s our MI guy. Might as well be A. Reyes.
While the MI certainly could still be A. Reyes, he was non-tendered. Alex Cora’s name has been mentioned by some “pundits” recently.
Nah, I think Ayala showed cojones. Killed us on game 162, but he’s got some good stuff. Hopefully Dirty will have a bounce back year, who knows. Preferably, though, our starting 5 will go 7 in all 162 games and we’ll never need someone in the 7th.
I love Bradley as a hitter… but there’s no way he lasts more than half a season as an everyday OF. (See: Dodgers, last year with Texas.)
A. Reyes isn’t on the mlb.com non-tender list.
CaseStreet
You are correct about the list. Poor choice of words on my part. My source is the Taiwan News, so I don’t know how credible they are, but in a story about the Scho trade they say the Mets “released” Ambiorix Burgos and Argenis Reyes.
Argenis not on roster/40-man… but on depth chart. Que es esto?
Also unclear on their credibility, but this is from WVEC dot com:
NEW YORK METS_Named Ken Oberkfell manager for Buffalo (IL). Traded LHP Scott Schoeneweis and cash to the Arizona Diamondbacks for RHP Connor Robertson. Declined to tender 2009 contracts to RHP Ambiorix Burgos and INF Argenis Reyes.
I noticed earlier today that A. Reyes wasn’t on 40 man but Easley was put back on. I really hope Easley isn’t our MI guy, although he’s nice and adds pop for that position, I can see him getting injured again.
At the end of the day, we’re talking about Argenis, not Jose, so as we used to say when I was a kid “Big Whoop!”
GravediggerHebner says:
December 14th, 2008 at 1:17 am
At the end of the day, we’re talking about Argenis, not Jose, so as we used to say when I was a kid “Big Whoop!”
_______________________________________
True, but consider who he’d likely be filling in for, Mr. I need a wheel chair Castillo. Whether it’s A. Reyes, Cora, or Easley, they’ll likely get lots of PA.
CaseStreet
I agree on the potential for playing time, and I don’t think Argenis was worthy of it. I’m hoping that both stories, that of Argenis’ release and that of the Mets’ interest in Cora, are true.
What about the outside chance we send Castillo to D-Backs for Byrnes and Lopez. We get 14.5 coming but send 6 million away.
Probably better off w/o Byrnes.
The healthy and productive Byrnes of 2007 would be the toast of NYC, but I don’t think we’d be getting him and I think we need that salary difference to use elsewhere on the roster, especially SP.
I’ve been so impressed with the rapid trading away of so much of the ‘culture of failure’ of the last 2 seasons that I’m willing to overlook the presence of Castillo on the opening day roster.
Before he hurt his knees, he was good at fielding his position and good at getting on and running the bases. I’m open to giving him one final chance to reclaim some of his former ‘glory.’ At worst he could improve his trade value, it really can’t get much lower.
If Omar should pull yet another miracle and trade him away before the season, I will consider him for sainthood.
oleosmirf says:
December 13th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
elephants
randy wolf for 3 years?????? you must be nuts
Read the post…it will be 2 years with a team option for 3. Wolf is 32 years old and LEFT HANDED. He will be pitching for 6-7 more years. He has a much better k/bb ratio and he knows how to pitch. His fastball is only 87, but his change is 74…he is going to be around for a long time and unlike Oliver I walk everyone in the house perez, he actually knows HOW to pitch
Besides signing either Ollie or Lowe, I hope the Mets look into either Capuano or Danny Cabrera to compete with Niese for the 5th spot. Capuano is coming off Tommy John but his track record suggests that he is a solid lefty. Cabrera is a reclamation project but a major talent as well.However, I don’t know if could stand both Ollie and Cabrera in the same rotation and the 500 walks they will accumulate.
omar got such a good head start with the pen, I wil as-sume he also nails down what is needed for th erotation.
for position players, his agressive cutting of the whipping boys has me hoping Castillo goes too. That will really help. ALso expect an upgrade in LF (at least the RH platoon part).
Don’t sount out getting Molina either. He was looking to trade a catcher it seems.
SO, I really can’t see the same starting 8 back, so give Omar a chance to work.
Not big on Lowe, but if he is effective than so be it. I still like Garland and think he would be a better pitcher in Queens, than he was in L.A. I think Marquis wouldn’t be bad as a #5 or possible long relieve letting Niese get some burn from time to time. Still not a fan of Wolf, honestly never really seen the big appeal especially knowing that he was let go by the !@#$% phillies and definitely wouldn’t be a good fit for what the Mets and co. are trying to do, win.
If we can get Lowe for 3/40 run with it as fast as possible. Then wait around for the starter left out to fill in the #5 spot.
To me if we sign Lowe then all of our focus should then be on our offense.
Start by trading Schnieder and picking up Molina.
the mets traded milledge b/c he was ‘too ghetto” so what makes anyone think the Mets would consider signing Milton “I’ll stab you” Bradley
also how can anyone say that Garland is better than Lowe.
Lowe is coming off a great year and as had an era under 3.90 the past 4 seasons. Also he’s a great big game pitcher with lots of success in the postseason.
also even though he is 36, Lowe didnt become a starter until he was 29, so his arm has alot less innings on it then the average 36 year old starter.
sign Derek Lowe to 3 years 51 mil with an option and he’s a lock for 200 IP 13+ Wins and an era under 3.75 at the least. with Pelfrey, Maine and whoever following him in the rotation, I’ll take that from a #2 starter any day of the week
I think we will find out real soon if manny is an option for the mets. Manny has said that he wants a serious offer soon by teams that are interested. My guess is hell be wearing blue and orange come april
Realistically, they can:
Sign Lowe, Wigginton
Trade for Grabow/Carlson
Find a relatively cheap veteran to compete with Neise for #5
Find a versatile defensive middle infielder to spell regulars
Wigginton can play 2nd, fill in for Wright or Delgado, or play left w/Murphy. He makes the whole team better with his versatility and approach, and he’s a fan favorite. It’s a no-brainer. You’ve got bullpen arms + Evans to trade for Grabow, who’s making 1.1M for cash-strapped P’burgh.
I don’t think the “ghetto” stuff has anything to do with not signing Bradley. He can’t stay healthy and he is a jerk. No team wants him for many reasons, and if he was a white choirboy with his personality and injury history, he would still justifiably be a pariah.
And as Manny’s price plummets almost as fast as Bernard Madoff’s reputation, maybe he will be coming home to NYC to add another playoff team to his collection after all…..
3 years, $48m for lowe.
I think signing Wigginton is really a solid move and something that should definitely be considered. He can either play 2nd or left, though I`m not sure he still plays OF. The Mets need a solid right-handed bat that can thump, plus hes been here before. The only other OF right-handed options are: 1. Bradley, who the Mets r unlikely to sign due to his being a headcase and injury concerns, 2. Burrel; not the worst option talent-wise, but there is no Met fan alive that wants to see this guy in orange and blue and 3. Manny; Extremely unlikely, horrible fielder, headcase of all headcases, Mets ownership hates him. 4. Juan Rivera; actually a decent option, but significantly better than Tatis/Murphy platoon? Not significantly.
As for the rotation, I think an unconventional yet possibly major impact player, would be to sign Smoltz to an incentive-laden contract. When healthy, he is absolutely one of the top 8 or 9 righthanders in the game. I would go for Olly, and use Smoltz and Wolf as fall back options.
I don’t envy Omar, he’s got a tough road ahead. Lots of tough decisions.
I would love to see the Mets sign Bradley. He can swing the bat and would come cheaper than Manny (Manny is def first option). All i know is that we need an everyday LF preferably a big bat. I’m tired of working the bargain basement – No team in the MLB should be OK with a Murphy/Tatis combo to start the season.
Staying with topic though, Lowe or Ollie is a must!
pedro
I personally dont see Manny as a problem on the Mets due to the fact that spanish is the dominant language in the clubhouse. When more than half the team, and the general manager speaks Spanish it certainly makes it more enjoyable for a latino player to play here and conversly probably make older generation white guys uncomfortable (Tom Glavine perfect example)
not to mention Murphy and probably Tatis is worse in the OF then Manny. remember Tatis only played 4 games in the OF in his career prior to last season…
In case anyone forgot what Manny Ramirez would bring to the Mets, go watch the video clips on his player profile from the Dodgers’ website. Then, tell me, you don’t want this guy? He literally told his team, follow me and I’ll take you to the promise land.
Don’t give me character issues as an excuse. Please. You want a World Series or not? The man is one of the greatest hitters of this generation, ranks up there with the greatest of all-time. He makes everyone on his team better. This lineup would benefit tremendously with his presence. David Wright especially would get all the pressure in the world taken off his shoulders. He’d explode for a huge year. We’d actually have a true cleanup hitter in the middle of our order. Plus, for everyone who is unhappy with the black hole in the lineup coming from Castillo and Schneider, it is only through the bat of Manny Ramirez that you neutralize that non-production. Let’s sign Manny and win a World Series!
and again..how do you know that tatis is going to have the year he did last year before he got hurt…and murphy can hit but not for an outfielder..2nd base yes..
and again..how do you know that tatis is going to have the year he did last year before he got hurt…and murphy can hit but not for an outfielder..2nd base yes..
Plus, as far as Manny goes, it is very likely that his off-the-charts August and September was due to NL pitchers not being familiar with him, having spent his whole career in the AL; this would surely hold up for much of next year….put him in the #3 spot in front of Wright, or #4 between Beltran and Wright, and Manny will be the first Met MVP and have an OBP between .450 and .500.
And as I have argued before, if he comes to the Mets and helps win one World Series, after what he has done with leading the Indians and Red Sox to their best seasons in the last 50+ years, Manny would retire as the greatest winner of all-time. Reggie with infinitely better numbers.
all roads lead to manny ramirez
I just dont understand why it would be so much of a headache getting manny. if we are going to get over this two years of choking then lets get the guy. no body seems to be making offers and he seems to be getting frustrated so lets make a offer and a run for the world series!
NtNYM3 says: “if we are going to get over this two years of choking then lets get the guy. no body seems to be making offers and he seems to be getting frustrated so lets make a offer and a run for the world series!”
On this Sunday morning, let us pray that this EXACT thought is in the mind of Omar…he gave KRod a very affordable deal, and has yet to severely overpay for Lowe or anyone else….the money is still there….DO IT!!
philynym
not only does he do all the things you just said he also allows Murphy to spell Castillo and get some time at 2B
Look. I want Manny. I really do. But, before we worry about him, we have to go after pitching. And, if Murph can’t play 2B, we need a new 2B. So honestly, I don’t know if we have enough money for Manny. But if we do, let’s go for him. If we don’t have quite enough, I’d take Dunn or Bradley. Ok? Let’s move on.
I can’t keep typing get Manny. It’s so obvious he’s a part of the answer to the late season swoon.
On Murphy, I’d like him in the spot starter in the outfield, 1B and off the bench this year to keep his adjustment to MLB and their adjustment to him going positive. I’m thinking like a Kevin Mitchell light. For second base unfortunately the reports out of the Arizona Fall League were that he wasn’t cutting it at second base. Wasn’t disasterous but didn’t project long term for second. Too bad, that would have been perfect.
Enough with the infatuation for Wiggy. It’s not going to happen. He made 4.35 mill last year and was expected to make 7 mill in arbitration. That is simply too much for a utility player that can’t play defense. Ideally you would be looking for something that comes cheap… Around 2 mill that can play defense. Wiggy would be looking for 4 minimum and maybe 3.5 per year in a multi year deal. Even that is a stretch.
i can guarantee the phillies would be a little more intimidated about us if we got manny.agree?
krod
if we got manny…i would care less about having castillo…let him play 2nd base..
krod9
but if the Mets sign Manny we can afford to not upgrade the rotation as well as have castillo playing everyday at 2B
suppose the mets go in to the season with Manny in LF and a rotation of Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, Penny and Marquis. sure the rotation wouldnt be great but it would still be good enough where we would be the top team in NL. then at the deadline Omar trades Parnell, Evans and other good prospects for a #2 starter that will be leaving via FA anyway that we can use for the stretch run.
Santana, (ex: Duchsherer), Pelfrey, Maine, Penny would be a great rotation for the final month and a half…
I agree NtNYM3….I like Ibanez, but getting him to match our new LF being Manny, not to mention that our bullpen now blows the Phils’ away, would definitely get them thinking….
No, honestly, that isn’t a very good rotation at all. We need someone like Lowe or Ollie in there. We have question marks there. Will Pelfrey be able to match last year (I hope so, and think so, but are we sure he won’t slump?) Will Maine be back to his old self from injury? Will Niese be ready? Simply, we don’t know. I’m open to making some sort of trade or whatever, but it needs to be done before the season. Only then can we really afford to focus solely on Manny. One player does not fix a team, guys.
And you don’t honestly LIKE the idea of Castillo playing full time, do you?
Krod9, we do have enough money to get Manny and Lowe/Ollie through free agency. I’m sick of hearing how we don’t have money. This franchise has so much revenue coming in, the wealth is unimaginable. With the new stadium selling out every night, the 20 million dollar naming rights, the profits of the SNY network, and all other financial income, there is no reason in the world that we cannot be in play fulfilling both areas of need. Not to mention, just look at Manny Ramirez alone would do to our profits. We’d have record selling jersey numbers being bought all over the country. The man essentially did that to the Dodgers over the span of just a few months single-handedly, imagine what that would translate to over a few years time here in New York. You do the math.
manny as a met with a offense like that = world series
And oleosmirf, your argument is strengthened by the incredible bullpen improvements we have made….that rotation would be more then enough with the current bullpen, even moreso if we add Saito or we add Cordero and he returns to even close to past form….we would have a lights-out pen after 6.
I remember I found a site a while back that listed the current, up-to-date, salaries of the Mets. Anybody remember what it was? I want to see what we have left below the tax cap. We all know that we are not going to go above it.. and if we do… not by very much. We’re not the Skankees and I’m greatful for that!
Philnym31, the Wilpons have lost at least tens of millions of personal AND team money in this Madoff scandal on top of the economy (yes Hubie, again I give you props)….it is unrealistic to expect them to get Manny (which would be amazing) AND to tremendously overpay for an aging Lowe.
It would be nice, but not realistic. And with Santana, and if Pelf can do what he did last year over a full year, and if Maine is healthy, I do think with our pen, with our excellent offense adding Manny, and with two more innings-eaters, or Ollie and one innings-eater, we will be looking outstanding.
With all of that, I could care less if Slappy starts the season at 2nd.
Look, I’m not trying to say no. I’m just saying that shouldn’t be our priority RIGHT NOW.
40 million, 3 years for Lowe.
55 million, 3 years for Manny.
why cant we find a way to get rid of LC at 2b. it is honestly driving me nuts!
Yeah, Kingman26. I agree with you. I do believe with the improvements to the bullpen and the addition of Manny, we could opt for a less than stellar rotation. As long as we find pitchers who can eat up the innings and keep opposing teams at bay, we are in fine shape. Maybe Ollie and a capable guy for cheap off the scrap heap: the likes of Tim Redding, Daniel Cabrera, Odalis Perez, etc.
NtNYM3, as much as we would all like to get rid of Louie. There is no feasible way to get him off this team. Paying both Orlando Hudson and Castillo is not the answer and a huge waste of the team’s resources. The only way to fix the problem is to neutralize it, countering that non-production with above-average production elsewhere in the lineup. And, that comes through the bat of Manny Ramirez.
I don’t think we need Lowe per se. But we AT LEAST need someone like Ollie. I’d be fine with that rotation.
Gonna be honest, I think you’re misusing “neutralize” here. Manny Ramirez is great, but he’s not a savior sent down from heaven wrapped in solid gold threads.
Yeah, Philnym31, I mean Peavy or Oswalt would be my very first choices, but all things considered, Johan/Pelf/Maine and two more guys who won’t get hurt would be all we probably need.
If we could somehow sign Saito cheaply and have him as a 7th inning guy with his 3-year record, and then have Sanchez/Stokes/Feliciano and maybe Cordero for the rest, we could afford some 5 or 6 inning outings, which we couldn’t the last two years.
Weeks ago, I thought Manny was a pipe-dream, but as it seems pretty clear that the Sox and Yanks won’t be getting him, and the Dodgers and Angels aren’t going to blow him away with offers, so IF the Wilpons are going to make one more big offer, Manny is the way to go.
Seriously, think of what he would do batting in front of Wright or between Beltran and Wright! If he was 4th, and Beltran was 3rd, Beltran would see nothing but fastballs right down the middle!!
we have 2 great late inns relievers and we havent spend much to fix it. meaning we have a chance to get manny. omar said he isnt done yet, I think omar is saving money to get manny.
GET IT DONE!!!!
REYES
MURPHY (hopefully at 2B)
BELTRAN
MANNY
DELGADO
WRIGHT
CHURCH
SCHNEIDER
WOW!!!!!
Philnym31, i agree with the manny part but i still think they could deal louie for a cheap arm for the pen. then we could sign hudson to play 2b
Anyone who thinks Lowe wouldn’t be a huge get for us is nuts (I say sign him for 3yr for 45 mil with option for a 4th).
Also with all this Manny talk, while I think he would be great ( I afree that you take him because he is a pure hitter and risk the club house cancer thing, after all could it get worse) for us I think everyone is forgetting one problem. Outfield depth.
We need a lat e inning defensive replacement if you have Manny and with Murhpy and Tatis on the roster you no longer have room for the newly acquired Reed. I know this should be the least of our problems if we signed Manny but imagine if he hits the bomb in the bottom of the eighth in Game 7 only to misplay a single into a triple in the bottom of the ninth and there goes the game. Forget Manny being bad defensively (were used to that in LF over the past couple years) but he is also dumb defensively and that is dangerous.
get manny for 3 yrs 60 mil and lowe for 3 yrs 42 mil. Ollie is not worth more than 10 mil a year. who agrees with all of this?
No offense sdubs, but we have lots of outfield depth, and a defensive replacement for Manny would be about number 78 on the list of Met priorities if we did sign him. And while the CF and RF can’t run over and help like Kelly Leak in the Bad News Bears, with Beltran in CF and Church in RF, we would have a fine defensive outfield. And Manny’s bad fielding did not keep the Indians and Red Sox from having their best periods in the last 60 years with him out there.
And Lowe is good-to-very good, not remotely close to someone like Johan or CC, and 3/45 would in fact be very nice, but would be dramatically lower than everything we have heard about his demands.
I would go for Ollie at this point but take a look at Saito as others have already said. 5 inning Ollie wouldn’t hurt as much as it did last season with a bullpen like that. The ‘pen would be lights out.
I’m actually pretty surprised by all you guys who r lobbying for Manny. Look, we all know the guy has the *ability* to produce like a monster…but have you all forgotten what a distraction he can be?? He bit the hand that fed him for years with the Sox! Many times against tough opponents or pitchers (ie: When Joba was pitching), he would come up with a phantom injury and sit out.
What the Dodgers got from Manny was exactly what he needs…to be playing for a contract. He played like superman for 3 months b/c he was playing for his next contract, everyone predicted that.
Bottom line: I like him, and his bat brings another dimension to this lineup certainly making them the best offensive team (on paper) in the N.L., maybe the whole league.
But, anything beyond a 2-yr deal, is irresponsible and not worth the risk…in my opinion.
Pedro—Manny has apparently been playing for a contract every year since 1995. Review his career stats.
And remember what the Boston press said about Pedro Martinez, EVERY WORD of which turned out to be untrue. The Red Sox were the very last team to sign a non-white player, 11 years after Jackie Robinson, and players from Jim Rice right down to Manny and Pedro have complained about unfair treatment. We were told Pedro was a prima donna and a clubhouse cancer, and it was complete and utter baloney.
pedro,
who cares about “hypothetical “distractions” when manny would provide much more upside….i.e. world series
We should get manny and one of ollie/lowe and we would be set. agree?
I hear you, but he has been a nut. Are you saying that you feel that the Sox are prejudiced against non-white players? They said Pedro was a primma donna because HE WAS a primma donna! He always required his own trainers and staff around and then he basically dictated when he was going to be pitching, ie: in the 03 playoffs when he demanded of Grady Little that he remain in game when he was clearly done, the result: Yanks tied game and ulitmately won the series…or in 04, when he demanded to be put into the clinching game of a series.
Manny was treated like a King in Boston. he was a perennial all-star, a fan favorite, and eventually a Boston hero. I have never seen or heard anything regarding Oriz feeling like he is treated unfairly. Instead of blaming the Sox, maybe just maybe, Manny is the problem, no?
Maybe, maybe you are correct. I am just someone who thinks that it is hard to judge players truly, unless they are on your favorite team and you watch them every day, and Pedro, in all ways, was nothing like the Boston press made him out to be. Timlin and some other Sox pitchers made comments after he left regarding what a great teammate he was, always giving time to help other pitchers. And Grady Little was the manager—if he did not have the stones to remove Pedro, that is all Grady Little, and WHY he was canned.
And yes, the Sox and Boston media most definitely do not have the best history with non-white players, from being the last to sign a black player 50 years ago, to Jim Rice’s treatment, to Manny and Pedro….And after Ortiz’s season and postseason last year, if he does not pick it up, he will all of a sudden be a fat guy who doesn’t care….you heard it here first!
How many black and Latin players do the Red Sox have today? I would guess among the very fewest in all of baseball.
If Lowe and Perez could be signed, we’d have a great rotation. And we have that money. We always lose by one game because on part of the team is left susceptible. The bullpen is solidified, minus one good left handed reliever and possibly a righty free agent (Saito, Cordero,etc.) but we can’t leave the rotation in flux. With Santana, Lowe, Maine, Pelfrey, Perez we could even deal setup up a deal including Niese for a big time left fielder who isn’t a degenerate. Holliday maybe? F-Mart and Niese is similar to what the A’s gave up for him and they won’t want to stick with his pay. Just a thought. But we can’t neglect this rotation because we don’t know if Niese is ready and someone like Marquis might not cut it.
pedro
everyone in LA raved about Manny Ramirez as a teammate. Torre said how Manny used to come to the ballpark early to take BP and always took the time out to help out the young guys like Ethier, Kemp and Loney.
even if that was just to get a great contract Manny still hit .396 with 17 HR and 64 RBI in only 53 games. Thats better than what we had in LF ALL SEASON
obviously Manny wont to that amazing for the Mets but batting him inbetween Beltran and Wright imagine how good Manny would be
is .325 40 HR and 130 RBI with an OBP of .420 really that farfetched???
I know Jake Peavy does NOT want to come to new york, but maybe if Omar reaches out to him and tells him that he will not be put into the spotlight, we have the game’s best pitcher, and tells him that he if he is unhappy here than he will trade him, then maybe he will jump on board. A combo of Johan and Peavy will give us the best 1 2 punch in baseball and the best setup closer combo 2. How about a package based around fmart. I know they are looking for an of and if they were willing to take pie then im sure they would take fmart. maybe if we threw in a sp like niese or parnell and a couple of lower level prospects we can get the deal done. I LOVE FMART but to be honest this team is built to win now. Johan and Beltran are at there prime now as well as krod, wright, reyes, and putz, all memebers of our core. if you wait a couple of yrs for fmart to develop thats great, but then santana will be old as well as beltran and then you have to say where can i get an ace or a star outfielder. You have to give to get, like the sox did to get beckett and I say its about time we get a nasty 1 2 punch and bring a world series to the mets. Lowe is good , but not for all the money he is going to get. Oli is also fine, but can he realyl step up a be a number 2. I do not want to put the pressure of big pelf to be our number 2, he still is developing himself. BRING PEAVY TO THE METS.
as much as we all want that, i dont think omar is gonna get peavy
WHY though, he has the pieces to get it done and im sure he can convince him to come. i dont understand why he would rather have a 36 sinkerballer than a lights out pitcher like peavy. he can get peavy, just like he got us santana, he has all the pieces they want. i like lowe, but lowe is not the answer. we need a number 2. lowe right now at this time of his career is prob a 3 maybe a 2
who would you suggest we trade for peavy?
Get Lowe forget Manny & we can go to war with this team….The achilles heel of the Pen has been solved bye bye philly!!
naaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh chasmets, we need a solid LF not a platoon like last year. Manny would do sooo much for this team
teach the pen,
how about a package of fmart, bobby parnell, and a couple of lower level minor leaguers. considering they need an of, they wanted pie, who is terrible, i think the padres would jump at the deal of getting a 5 tool future stud in fernando martinez
I agree with most of you. Right now if we didnt get a single new player we probably would be a Division winner maybe. We need Manny, Lowe or Perez, and 1 other SP wether it be Garland/Wolf/Marquis or whoever to get us over the hump to be WS Contenders. Manny would give us atleast 5-10 more wins with run support that could make us have a 90 to 100 wins. Lowe would give us wins we need in Playoffs with Santana and Pelf/Maine. And next year there are some goodies for SP in Free Agency. Beckett, Halladay, Webb and others that could be our 2nd for 2011.
jRomero, i would do that deal, but not sure if omar would want to give up them, and depending on the other minor leaguers. Being that everyone says how “depleted our system is”, i just dont see it happening, i would love for it to though
to fix what i said, i mean that it wont matter if our system is depleted bc if we get peavy we have an all around solid team. omar has the academy in the dr and will develop many players there. i love having a good farm, but the time for this team to win is now. i, like all mets fans am sick of being the second best, second to the braves and yanks in the 90′ and the phillies now, its about time we stick it to them and win us a world series. mets in 09 baby!!!!!!!!!
i like the way u think, btw, does ur name have anything to do with J.C. Romero on the Sillies?
no it doesnt lmao, but honestly we have santana and beltran wright reyes krod all our core are in their primes now and wont be forever we wont have putz next yr unless we pick up his 8.6 million option for a set – up man, delgado wont be here and we gave up carp, so i have no idea who we will play at first, maybe omars got someone in th dr or minors, anyway we need to get another pitcher. SO FAR WE have strengthened our pen, but our sp has been depleted, without oli unless they bring him back. bottom line is we need peavy to get us a world series. lowe or oli is not cutting it. give away fmart, parnell, kunz, and get us an ace to be our number 2, like we did with putz. everyone needs to stop saying teixera or manny, bc they are noit happening and manny should not happen. i love manny but he is a huge liability in the field and i think he will be way overpaid. why pay more for manny then teixera? ill take tex over manny anyday. also, bring in everday eddie to be a lefty in pen.
i mean like we did with putz, like putting a closer as our set – up guy put peavy an ace as our number 2