Last Friday, it was reported that Fred Wilpon’s 
Sterling Equities lost roughly $300 million to Bernard L. Madoff’s investment firm, as did a variety of charities, Steven Speilberg, Mort Zuckerman, New Jersey Sen. Frank Lautenberg, and others, in what federal authorities are describing as a $50 billion Ponzi scheme.
Meanwhile, in Newsday, Ken Davidoff says Mets GM Omar Minaya was recently told by Wilpon to keep ‘working on the team’s offseason renovation,’ despite the news.
“The Mets are completely self-sufficient, and we have confidence that none of the other investments will affect the team,” said Bob DuPuy, the president and chief operating officer of MLB, as quoted by Michael S. Schmidt in the New York Times.
“They have been one of our most successful franchises on and off the field, and they are going into a magnificent ballpark next spring, and we expect it to be business as usual.”
That said, Schmidt said people with knowledge of Wilpon’s business dealings are concerned that he and the team could encounter significant problems because of the reported fraud.
Schmidt concludes by writing, “Perhaps most troubling is the possibility that losses… may cause Wilpon to sell valuable assets, including a portion of his ownership in the Mets.”
As such, Martin Silver, a long-time Mets fan and owner of Star Industries, told the Daily News he’s putting together a team of partners to make Wilpon a $600 million to $700 million offer to buy the Mets.
{ 180 comments }
I would hope he sells the whole blasted thing.
I feel badly for all of those affected here including the Wilpons, but they have been very bad owners and I hope they sell the team. Bring back Doubleday!
Wow, new ownership?
Anyone know if Martin Silver is a baseball fan? I hope we do not get stuck in a situation where the Mets are sold, and we are worse off.
please sell! how can you be worse off than wilpon, he thinks he actually has a good baseball mind and is too involved in transactions(Kazmir).
I don’t think they’ve been bad owners, but I can’t really say I’d be heartbroken if they sold.
and what happens if they move them out of new york?
Whoops, I guess by long-time Mets, Matt meant long-time Mets fan? If this is the case, I hope the prospective partner brings a boatload of money with him.
get marc cuban to buy the team.. i’m sure he will be exited in NY..
PLEASE… I’m begging… can’t we go back to the old comments? I hate these, and though nobody here may care, I can’t read these as efficiently and as a result, I’m logging on less often, and reading comments almost never.
enterkrod. why would anyone be stupid enough to move them out of new york? i promise you there’s no chance that happens, if for some reason the wilpons were able to find owners stupid enough to think that would be a good idea I doubt mlb would even allow it.
martin silver SIGN MANNY!!!!
From Wikipedia:
“Star Industries is an alcoholic beverage producer and importer founded in Sunnyside, Queens, New York in 1934. It is today based in Syosset, New York and offers an extensive line of beverage products, including vodka, gin, rum, cachaça, wine, liqueurs, and alcopop.
Star’s best known product is likely Georgi vodka, heavily advertised in the New York metropolitan region. Georgi’s logo uses the Cyrillic letter Я in place of an R, an example of faux Cyrillic.
In 2003, Star Industries sued Bacardi and Anheuser-Busch over the use of a circular “O” on Bacardi’s “Bacardi O” alcopop. Judge Harold Baer, Jr. of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York rejected Star’s claims.”
Local boy, still out L.I. and will only sell Coors.
Enterkrod, I guarantee they won’t move them out of NY. I bet NY has something to say about that, especially contractually. By getting these bonds, there are certain contingencies that may be required. I doubt NY will help finance the staidum, and then just let them go. Not only is it unlikely, but it is probably close to impossible.
I would be scared if they sold the mets, imagine they sell them to someone who doesn’t have the big market mind, imagine: new owners, moves the team to jersey, changes team colors to black and red, trades off wright and reyes..it could be bad.
I don’t think they can just move the Mets out of NY. I am sure they have a deal with the city already. Especially since they just got a new ball park.
If a sale is made, I just hope that it is an owner that wants to win and is willing to spend money and is not some cheap owner like some of these other teams.
Also if a perfect storm of stupid came together and they idea of moving them out of New York actually became a possibility then we would have bigger things to worry about because it would mean our new owners were completely incompetent.
yeah..i know after reading my own comment..i was kind of appalled by my idiocy..lol..getting ready for work..off season making me a little crazy…MANNY..
(11).. LOL
if thats the case..lets get the wilpons out of here..bring this guy in..he willl tell omar…you know what?…money is nothing..go get whoever you want..lol..ok maybe not whoever you want…go get manny and two starting pitchers…
Alex 242,
If by “exited,” you actually mean exiled. I would agree.
I can’t believe Wilpon is selling anytime soon.
Also, the article said this Silver character sent Wilpon some chickens when he fired Willie – first off, that makes this offer sound like a stunt, and second, do we really want someone like that as the new owner??
so instead of signing arod, vlad, and others over the years, the wilpons decided to give all their money to a madeup ponzi investment group, good job guys.
Anyone that is actually worrying about the mets being moved out of NY needs to get their head checked out.
NYCESQ:
good point..
People,
Moving the team out of NY is impossible. Please don’t bother discussing it.
Kazmir was a long time ago, -4.
And I just don’t understand how people continue to call the Wilpons bad owners. In the past, they made some questionable moves, but frankly, lately they have been great. They delivered Pedro, Beltran, Wagner, Delgado, Johan, K-Rod, and a brand new stadium all between 2004 and now!.. You can be MUCH worse off than the Wilpons…Look at the owner of the Twins, who pockets the profits, instead of reinvesting them with the team. Look at Loria on the Marlins! The Wilpons have $140M+ payroll, and since bringing Omar on board have showed a renewed focus on winning.
so instead of signing arod, vlad, and others over the years, the wilpons decided to give all their money to a madeup ponzi investment group, good job guys”
AND RUNNING AWAY FROM TEX.. MANNY..
If this results in a new owner dynamiting the the faux-Ebbets facade, I’d be thinking about what number to retire for Madoff.
I want to buy the Mets…but I can only offer a couple thousand at this time. I promise I’ll pay you back Fred! Give me a shot!
yeah…just like the peavy talk i started…forget it…this offseason is making me crazy…im off to work…hopefully see some good news when i get home tonight..
OK.. All this talk of moving the mets is INSANE. The Mets are always 2nd or 3rd in Attendance. They are one of the most profitable teams in baseball. Brand New Stadium…. why would they move. Baseball is a business… and you can not make more money that being in NY.
the mets have a new 50 years lease with the city, with this new ball park….mets arent going anywhere
50 year….sorry
not to mention the guy is a long time new york mets fan..lol..im sorry i brought it up..back to arguing over getting or not getting manny
guys…apparently tex likes the orioles…HE WOULD BE AN IDIOT
This Silver guy sent Wilpon five chickens because of his displeasure at Willie Randolph’s firing?
That’s all you really need to know…
It’s not Wilpons fault on ARod, it’s Boras’ fault
Why would that make Tex an idiot? He’s already filthy rich, and he has a chance to play for his hometown team.
Wouldn’t you sign for the Mets, even if they offered you $10-20 mil (long-term) less than say…the Angels?
The fish rots from the head. The Wilpons have run a mediocre franchise in baseball’s biggest market, consistently outcla_ssed and outmaneuvered by the likes of the Cardinals, Braves, Dodgers, Marlins (!!!) and now Phillies. They’ve expunged all traces of Met history from the new stadium, instead creating a taxpayer-funded temple to Wilpon’s rose-colored nostalgia. Similarly, they paid far too much attention to the Brooklyn Cyclones vanity project and never enough to the Mets.
And they kept the black uniforms about eight years too long.
Prismo, I can prob add couple thousand too. We should form a group to buy the Mets.
yeah you right…ok..again..i have to get off…
enjoy today everyone
“This Silver guy sent Wilpon five chickens because of his displeasure at Willie Randolph’s firing?
That’s all you really need to know…”
I kinda like that intensity.
I was liking this guy until i read the part about Willy “we are about to turn the corner” Randolph…
Alright, kistics! Metsbloggers unite! Now we only need…$699,996,000 more until we can buy the team!
hahaha…oh man…I needed a good laugh.
First, Wilpon will not sell anytime soon…The man just built himself a brand new stadium designed after his own childhood memories
Second, said stadium is about to bring him in a boatload of new revenue
Third, the mets will bring him a boatload of revenue once they finally put their sh *t together and make the playoffs.
Keeping his ownership would probably be the best investment he can make. I’m sure the man has other as* ets he can sell, if he even needed to.
AND…if he did indeed Sell his team, why would they abandon a strong NY market and a brand new stadium that would already have been built and paid for.
starz31: misplaced intensity is a waste
If Metsbloggers had bought the team, Soriano would be hitting cleanup and Zito would be our “ace.” That, or we’d be appealing to the World Bank for debt forgiveness on our $550M payroll.
I’m sure the Wilpons will be feeling the pinch if they haven’t already, but no one said they were entertaining offers or need to sell. Forbes just valued the franchise at over $800 million. That’s great that Silver thinks he can get it for $700 million but I don’t see that deal going down.
And if anyone wonders if Silver is a “real baseball fan”, they just need to look at that picture of him in the Daily News article… Awful. Any proposed sale to Silver should be contingent on his learning how to wear a baseball hat.
If the team was really for sale, which I doubt it will be sold, I’d love Mark Cuban as an owner. Yes he’s a little crazy, but he cares about winning more than anything and he’d open the check book as needed to sign free agent superstars. Plus imagine him in New York vs. the Steinbrenner family, hilarity would surely ensue.
WOW . . . Silver is the part-owner of my former home team, the mighty . . . Wilmington Blue Rocks. (You laugh, but the “Rocks” did retire Carlos Beltran’s number. . . .) If he takes over, look for lots of between innings “YMCA” and slip’n’slide races, and an emphasis on stupid promos over the actual game . . . . oh wait, that’s every minor league team.
my goodness some of you are naive/ignorant. The wilpons didn’t sign Vlad, etc because they gave the money instead to a ponzi scheme? C’mon, that’s not how this business works. I still can’t believe some of you think the Wilpons are cheap. We had a big payroll last year, right up near the luxury tax, what more do you want? What more do you people need to see that spending money means NOTHING? What has it gotten the Yankees? What did it get the Tigers last year? What did it get us last year? There are no quick fix guarantees. Manny doesn’t do that for us. The only way to build a world series winner, is to build a team that will stay competitive over the long haul, to give yourself more chances to win it. There is no 1 year push, it doesn’t exist, and it doesn’t work.
(50)
thanks for agreeing with me, guys, he revived a franchise in dallas who was the laughinstock of the NBA for many years… he can content for the mets for years becoz he’s also a smart business man..
WE WANT MANNY WE WANT MANNY
Um, it doesn’t mean “nothing.” Look at the past decade, and salaries correlate nicey with W/L records. It’s just a testament to how incompetent the Mets have been that they’ve spent the money but not gone to the playoffs.
It doesn’t “guarantee” anything, but generally, the teams that spend more win more, and it really hurts baseball, IMO.
WOW darkstar!!!
you ok man? first of all what’s up man, second of all, they have played cheap in certain occasions, maybe due to concern of injury we’ll never know, but also look at our payroll and see how many of those millions were due to bad contracts? and this year u already down 11 millions for wagner…. other than that i totally agree with u that money doesn’t win champisonships but smart investments like the yankees do have kept them in content for many years.. is not all about the money but about eho u gonna give the contracts too.. i.e alou, el duque, pedro, castillo..
SELL THE TEAM, FREDDY!
um, top 2 spending teams last year didn’t make the playoffs. Now, of course spending does make you win games, but it doesn’t make you win a world series, which is what most people around here care about, when you have people calling our season in ‘06, “falling flat on our face.”
darkstar
the yankees made the playoffs how many years in a row? and how many WS appearences and wins do they have in that time period???
dont say spending money doesn’t work. The Yankees have proved that time and time again.
In fact if the Yankees would have spent money and gut the farm system like they usually do they would have gotten Santana and probably made the playoffs last year.
darkstar:
i agree wit you a lot, but spendiong money makes u win world series, the yankees did it, boston is doing it, you can argue about teams like florida of 03 or st louis or the phillies, but those teams know how to draft well and have spent time in the cellar, all those team either have great managers or great players.. but in order to win u also have to SPEND money.. we just spend money but neither draft well or have great managers..
Ole,
The yanks won 4 of 5 world series when they built the team up through the farm system, made 2 or 3 quality trades like bringing in Paul O’neil, and added valuable Veterans like David Justice and Dave Cone. They didn’t have a team full of all-stars at every position or a payroll 100 million more then any other team in baseball.
They weren’t out there adding the top talent every year like they have been since 2000, starting with Jason Giambi. Since they started doing that they have consistently been one of the top 5 teams in baseball, but have no rings to show for it, and one world series appearance.
Spending money helps, but you have to spend it wisely.
Maybe we can sign Ramirez for the money he’s asking for and then he can afford to buy the team.
Spending money isn’t just on FA. It’s on scouting and draft and what not. Thats why the Red Sox are so good now, they pour money into the draft and into scouting and into research and development. That’s where the mets have been hurt more than anyone else.
Toomanyuniforms:
“Um, it doesn’t mean “nothing.” Look at the past decade, and salaries correlate nicey with W/L records. ”
In the 5 year period from 1999-2003, here are the following correlations between payroll and W/L record:
NFL: -.05
MLB: .48
NBA: .47
NHL: .66
EPL: .93
.48 isn’t great, and it’s good relative to other leagues. Clearly the NFL has a working system…
mark
yes that is correct but spending money leads to playoff appearences and if ur hot at the right time, thats all you need.
plus if the yankees had some pitching the last few years but thats a diff story
OMG the Mets are going Belly-up. The new story is Wilpons lost 500 million not 300 million. New owners are coming in to ruin this team. OMG we’re ALL going to become Yankee fans. Someone shoot me.
THANK YOU GINA…
more than anything else not anyone. we certainly haven’t been hurt their more than anyone.
Also if you’re going to choose to give up draft picks like we have and be cheap on the draft and trade prospects like we have then you need to supplement it by spending big, and smartly in FA, there’s no excuse for them to be too cheap to sign Lowe or Sheets right now or Tex or Manny.
fully agree Gina. I think I misspoke, I don’t mean to say spending money in general doesn’t help, but spending money on a one year push, doesn’t.
Oleo,
The Yanks had tons of pitching, At least according to salaries on the Roster. because either they didn’t Pan out, Were on the DL or what not. Doesn’t mean they didn’t have it.
Mike Mussina 17 mil
Randy Johnson 17 mil
Mo 9 mil
Pavano 9 mil
Wright 8 mil
Farnsworth 5.5 mil
Vasquez 3 mil
Ron Villone 2.25 mil
Octavio Dotel 2 mil
Chen Ming Wang .4
That’s almost 80 million on pitching in 2006. I just picked that year because they made the playoffs.
80 million in 2006 on Just pitching alone put the yankee’s 14th in MLB in Salary. that’s just pitching. Ahead of not small market teams like The Orioles Blue Jays and Rangers. About 8 mill behing the entire Phillies Roster.
There is spending Money, and spending it Wisely.
P.S. The Mets were at 101 million and change. Thrown in Derek Jeter and the yanks had already spent more money then the Mets…. And who went farther in that Post-season.
Gina hit it right on the head. It’s not all the money the Yanks or Sox spend on FA, its all the money they pump into scouting and drafting. Until this team learns how to draft, they will have to spend in order to be competitive, yet always fall short.
honestly the people saying OH NO WHAT IF THEY MOVE THE TEAM….1 word, citifield. are you serious? why the heck would a team move if they got a BRAND NEW STADIUM!?!. please people calm down, not the mention the guy is FROM NEW YORK and a Mets fan, why would he move the team this is so ridiculous.
But dark, you rather sign manny or tex and lose the picks than juan cruz and lose the picks? or darren oliver? that’s what the mets do.. they sign bad and lose the picks, then when they have them don’t draft well..
Gina is absolutely, 100% right. We’ll see how the Dominican Academy, etc., helps us, but frankly, it would be nice to just have better scouts going to the College World Series, too. Heck, Bernazard found Daniel Murphy just by chance.
SadClown, thanks for the correlations. Yet another reason not to emulate Europe (in this case, the ba_ss-ackwards* EPL. Ick.) Watch the NFL’s nice system blow up after the 2009 season.
*sigh — how could I have typed this without the underscore in full knowledge of the Stasi-approved filter?
Mark:
i’m glad you happy with the mets going one week further than the yankees in the playoffs.. last i checked.. we didn’t win either..
haha…anyone need a laugh?
Look at this starting roster for the Mets circa 2004.
C: Jason Phillips
1B: Mike Piazza
2B: Jose Reyes
SS: Kaz Matsui
3B: David Wright
LF: Cliff FLoyd
CF: Mike Cameron
RF: Richard Hidalgo
Bench: Todd Zeile, Shane Spencer, Karim Garcia, Eric Valent
better the devil you know than the devil you dont, i hope the wilpons dont have to sell.
Eric valent was the most awfulest player i had ever seen.. that was until he hit a home run agains the mets bullpen..
I’d like to sign Tex, but I think we’re priced out of it, considering we still need to upgrade the pitching situation, in addition to salary increases that will be occurring for a lot of our players in coming seasons. Manny, I’m not so sure of. He is borderline for me, on the just help next year, to causing problems for the team down the road. I think resigning Ollie is actually a smart move. He’s young, he’s a lefty, he’s familiar with the team and the players, and he strikes guys out. Price has to be right though.
Alex,
I wasn’t glad, just proving a point that people who call the Mets Cheap because they might not be in on Tex or Manny, or can get priced out of Lowe are wrong.
Spending the money doesn’t necessarily mean they are Cheap. There are plenty of things to Complain about the Mets being Cheap. Free Agency isn’t one of them. Not Paying above slot in the Draft Yes complain about that. Not going harder after foreign born players, yes complain about that. They spend their good fair share amount on FA’s. But because they aren’t the yanks and go blowing out teams out of the water and over-spending on FA’s people are calling them Cheap.
Basically everyone is calling them cheap because they aren’t being mentioned on spending 25 mil a year on manny, 20+ mil a year on Tex and going way over-board on Lowe like the yanks did on Burnett.
Between SNY and the new field all it will take is a 8 game winning streak and they’ll have the 300 million back by the end of June.
My problems with Ollie are his huge control problems, especially against righties since the way his pitches break and his arm angle are going to always give him trouble against righties And the fact that when hitters do make contact it’s not weak dribblers, it’s usually line drives and flyballs, which is fine in a park like Shea but we don’t know what Citi will play like. If more of a hitters park than his ERA is going to soar. The reason I like Lowe is because his stuff keeps balls out of the air even when they get hit.
Darkstar (Post 52) is right. Long-term success requires a strong scouting system to identify talent, a farm system that properly nurtures the potential into actual MLB-caliber players, the ability to pay your talent enough to keep the top players (a la the Wright/Reyes long-term deals), and the courage to let go of mid-level performers to make room for rising talents.
There’s nothing wrong with using free agency to plug holes – but you need to grow 4 of your 5 starters and 6 of your 8 position players on your own to be a success.
Anyone have any estimates on the Wilpon fortune? Having to ask the city for tax payers money to help fund the stadium, and the collapse of Citi, and now the Madoff scandal… all that does make you wonder about how the Mets’ future and the Wilpon family will be tied in together.
Mark Cuban is looking for a team. He’d be a great owner
Gina,
I’m right with you on the benefits of Signing Lowe over Ollie.
Again though it comes down to the Price. How much more per season is Lowe better then Ollie. 4 million?
And also if you sign Ollie for less, say 4 million, you can spend that on the 5th guy. So instead of Lowe and Neise which might translate into about 22-25 wins (14-16wins for lowe 6-10wins for Neise) you can have say Ollie/Garland/Marquis who would combine for 25-30 (14-16wins for Ollie/Garland/Marquis).
I only say this because if Lowe takes 16 mil a year, you aren’t going to see the Mets add another Solid #5 starter. I’d much rather see Garland or Marquis then Neise in the 5 hole. So what if the #2 pitcher isn’t signed, because i don’t think lowe is really a #2 pitcher every year. Last season he was, which happened to be his CONTRACT YEAR!
Mark Cuban is going to jail for insider trading.
I wouldn’t worry about the Wilpons..there are some people..not nearly as rich as them that lost everything to this ****
this team does not need to be sold we are fine the way we are we have come a long way even tho fred and jeff get cheap on us i dont want to take a chance on taking big steps back by letting some1 new buy this team i would turn down that offer of 700 million the mets price is priceless unless your ready to offer 1 billion dollars lol other wise just fall back and leave my team alone especially mark cuban keep that clown away from this team
I would say Lowe is worth 5 million more than Ollie at least. And I would say a combination of Lowe + Niese/scrap heap would be just as productive as Ollie+ whoever we could sign to be a 5th starter with the difference in money, really how many guys are lining up to be signed for 4-5 million anyway? Not to mention I would hope 4-5 million wouldn’t affect their signing decisions that much, even though I know it will, if we’re going to spend as much as we did money wise and other cost wise on K-rod and Putz there’s no reason not to go all in and put together the best team we can. Otherwise what was the point of getting those 2.
And when it comes down to it having a rotation with Johan and Lowe at the top is alot more comforting to me if for some reason we get in one of those below .500 ruts like we did last year or if we make the play-offs. Plus Lowe isn’t going to have those random implosion games like Ollie had that basically killed the bullpen before we even got mid-way through the season.
Mark 4 million is 4 million. It’s not going to stop the Mets from getting a guy like Marquis for cheap.
I would not be upset if it were Lowe + Tim Redding.
Also when between like 2005 and now, since Lowe came to the Dodgers, has he been worse than this year? I don’t understand why you would think he was a #2 this year and not the other 3 years.
And yes I do think having a real #2 makes that much of a difference when you have as many other question marks as we do in our rotation. We have no idea what to expect from Pelfrey or Maine next year and adding Ollie would just be one more question mark. Lowe has a proven and continued track record of success.
4 million might just stop them. Cause marquis is 10 million, and speculation is Cubs would eat some, say 4 million. So that is still 6 million more.
I think if you see Derek Lowe signed, you will see Freddy Garcia, Pedro, or someone of that ilk signed to compete with Neise. So either we have a rookie left hander or a old Vet on the back legs of their career or coming off serious injuries.
Ok, who is the best LF-er on the market. Where would you slot him in the lineup?
I have been all about Manny, but it looks like a less than 10% chance we sign him. If Tex goes to the Red Sox, then there will be two teams (big market) going after Manny. That being said, I think we are all but a non-factor there.
So, who would you want in LF? Spare the platoon argument…
mark cuban is not going to jail, it was a civil suit filed against him I believe.
Jumping in on the Lowe/Perez argument, I think the major improvement will be consistency. Every single time that Perez started, 90% of the fan base made a comment like, “I wonder which Ollie we are going to get today?” That is not a good problem to have. Yes, on some days he can hold the Phillies to two runs, and on others, he will give up 7 runs to the Pirates in the 1st inning.
I would much rather have a steady dose of 3 runs per game. I would have to think that it allows a hitter to enter the ball game, with a different mind-set. It also seemed to me that OP was always in his own world. Rarely, if ever, did I see OP enjoying himself with his teammates. I always felt that he never fit in. I don’t think the Mets can go on wondering if he can figure things out. The goal is, at least from where I stand, is to go into the season with as few “ifs” as possible.
Jans (93) Neither would I. That’s a lot of innings and protection for Niese.
darkstart (97) it was a civil complaint!
the mets should dip into the farm 1 last time or find another way to call the royals for zach grienke he would be an awesome #5 starter but i dont know what the royals would ask for
Gina,
Lowe in 2005-2007 he had pitched to a 3.6, 3.6, 3.8 ERA. With a WHIP of 1.25, 1.25 and 1.27. His BAA was 260, 262, 254.
Last season he had a WHIP of 1.13 and ERA of 3.24 and a BAA of 2.46. Those are the lowest totals he had since his 2004 season with Boston.
Kind of how Burnett seems to make 32 starts in his contract years, Lowe’s numbers were the best of his 4 years in LA last season.
So when he gets his 3 year 48 million dollar deal or his 4 year 64 million dollar deal. How do you think he will pitch? Like the guy last year, who had the best numbers of the last 6 years of his career. Or the guy who was pretty much a NICE part of a rotation.
I see him pitching back to the 3.6 or higher ERA. The Whip upwards of 1.3 and a BAA of about .260.
I also see it possibly getting worse as he gets older and loses velocity on his sinker.
While he has been better then Ollie, Ollie is 29, his BAA has consistently been better, his numbers against lefties are crazy good. If he lowers his BB’s against right handers his numbers would look tremendously better. That’s a big IF, but i see the same thing with a 36 year old Sinker Baller who is coming off the 2nd best year of his career.
Lowe + Marquis = 22 million
Perez + Marquis = 18 million.
That 4 million would not be enough for the Mets to say the hell with it Niese can start.
NYCESQ
there’s Dunn. And then there’s guys who we could pick up who would more than likely fit into some type of platoon. Like Ty Wigginton.
Wigginton is not a platoon. Look at his numbers last year. They were solid.
There is no way wigginton is coming here when he can be a full time starter somewhere else and get paid like a full time starter.
As usual,mgmt/owership wants to”build” a
“championship”team as frugally as possible.
This team is MANNY & LOWE away from a
REAL run at a title.The market has drawn-
down and yet there are tolds of Redding or
Wolf AND the real chance of our corner OFers
being Church&Tatis.Manny&Lowe are exactly
the Righty Hitting RBI machine/clutch/veteran
who not only is unfazed in big spots BUT actually thrives in them.Same said of Lowe
who is a rubber armed innings eater.
C’mon Wilpons, have you thought about how
much a Championship in this town would
mean financially? You must have. So,
Whats the hold up w/these signings??
As for the Lowe + Tim Redding, thats another good point, there’s also guys like Chris Capanuo, maybe Brad Penny, although I don’t know if he would sign for much cheaper than what Wolf/Garland might.
Is the difference between a guy like Marquis and some of these cheaper non-tendered scrap heap guys really big enough that we would rather sign Perez and Marquis than Lower+?. If nothing else there’s at least some upside with some of these guys like Penny and Garcia that you won’t get from guys like Marquis and Garland.
Wiggington still had an OPS of over .800 against RHP last year. He had a 1.055 against LHP. He fits perfectly in the lineup. Sign the man right now to be the LF.
THIS would keep the mets the SECOND RATE team in NYC:
Damon
Jeter
A-Rod
Manny
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Nady
Swisher
Omar better stay a step ahead of hank in the manny sweepstakes!
GINA,
The more and more I think of it, the more the idea of Dunn doesn’t sound bad. Leading me to my next question, isn’t he a lefty? How would they bat him in the lineup?
Unfortunately, it seems as if the Mets org. does not seem so high on Dunn. It is amazing, I would like the Dunn signing more for the vast improvement to our bench, over his on the field additions. This isn’t to say that I don’t think he would give us a solid LF. I just really like the idea of Murphy and Tatis on the bench. Also, if Castillo does go down, then Murphy could come in an spell him at 2b. How can you really go wrong with that?
Jaydh, why pay him like a bench guy? Start him in LF. Figure out next year next year. If Delgado leaves and Murphy has a good year then Murphy plays 1B. Maybe he learns to play 2B.
Either way, Wiggy starting in LF makes us a better team.
the real I’m not saying he’s a platoon player I’m saying that’s how we would likely use him. I agree he’s good enough to play everyday, but why play him slot him into LF everyday when he can be used so many other places. I imagine if we brought him in he’d get nearly enough at bats to be considered an everyday player just not at one position.
NYC, if you sign Dunn, How do you get 2 more staters and a bench player or 2 for around $10mil.
NYC not to start this debate again but Dunn fits just fine.
Reyes, Church, Wright, Delgado, Beltran, Dunn, Schnieder/Castro, Castillo. You only end up with 2 LHB in a row and that’s only if it’s a RH starter.
I think he would not agree to that Gina. I would think you tell him he is the starting LF. That does not mean he can’t go sub for Castillo one day and Tatis/Murphy play LF.
For all those advocating Wiggington, how does he and Dunn compare?
TRS, Murphy can’t be a bench player, it will just stunt his growth. I’m all for Wiggy, but I know Omar isn’t. guys like wiggy or dunn would be useful but priority #1 is SP and thats where all our exess money will go.
Mark Derosa would be a good example of how I would want them to use Wigginton if we brought him in, he got over 500 at bats without playing more than 100 innings anywhere. Wigginton can play both corner outfield spots I believe, both corner infield spots and has played 2nd base. You can get his bat into the line-up nearly every day without just sticking him into left field and not using him anywhere else.
Despite denials, it may be that the $50 billion Ponzi racket has hurt the Wilpons and sooner or later the Mets. Then what?
Jaydh, We have more than 20 million left. It is rumored that Dunn’s price is around 2/20 right now.
That leaves us about 15-18 million left. Enough for Lowe/Perez and a scrub.
Wiggy a lot less power, better BA, RH and can play multiple positions.
Gina, I understand what you are saying about Derosa. It would just depend on Wiggy. If we told him we will pay you what the other teams do and you will be out there somewhere everyday then he might do it.
And stunt Murphy’s growth? There will be plenty of ways to get Murphy AB’s. I would not be willing to sacrifice a good offense just so Murphy can “grow”.
guys like dunn and wiggy would do NOTHING in the standings. they are schlubs. manny is the answer
Nostra you are a schlub and do nothing for this comment section.
Now to actually use baseball ideas, they help the lineup tremendously. Just as the same debate that a good #2 and a crappy #5 is not better than 2 average #3’s.
You upgrade LF and catcher from last season and improve the bottom of the lineup by doing that you have improved the entire lineup and our production. Simple it would seem.
There’s a misconception here that the Mets do not spend lots of money on scouting and developement. They do.
The slotting issue that has often been brought up has been more of a smokescreen for bad decision making and poor planning.
Whenever the Mets have had high draft picks, they pay them handsomely. The difference between the Mets and the Red Sox is that the Red Sox were able to maintain high draft picks even while signing free agents because they offered arb to departing players. Omar doesn’t do that too often because the players that leave the Mets are often too old and injured (Moises, El Duque, Valentin) that their market value is low so there is a good chance they’d accept the arb, costing the Mets. So the Mets won’t risk that and don’t offer arbitration.
The Mets have poured money into international scouting and development the last few years. If it doesn’t pay off, that doesn’t mean the Wilpons are too cheap. It mean they and Omar are not making the smart decisions when it comes to acquiring talent and hiring scouts.
I would bet as an organization at every level, the Mets have spent on par with the Red Sox this decade. So why do the Red Sox have 2 rings and the Mets none? I believe the answer is Theo Epstein and their executives. They are better than Omar and his group.
i think the mets should consider zach grienke as he had pretty good numbers in the AL and ranked 10th in era which would become better numbers in the national league and if they dip into the farm system one more time they can avoid both perez and lowe and will get draft picks in return for perez and can make up for the farm players you can ship out for grienke than you can go after randy wolf so taht would mean grienke a solid starter that pitches 200 innings and is young and gets paid low money and wolf who wont make much so that would be 10 mill the most if even wolf asks for much money for #4 and #5 starters at this point i would pefer to go this route and just keep stocking the bullpen
i would trade both schneider and castro
to san fran for molina and let cancel be his backup and restock the catcher postion the season after through free agency
as for the outfield castillo for andrew jones
sounds good but until jones can show in winter ball he can play again i would stay away hes a hit or miss hitter and i just dont like his swing if we were to trade castillo maybe also add him in a trade with castillo and i know you guys dont like jose guillen but hes gangsta so he can relate to manuel who i think can control him plus guillen has power and proves it every year and he’s played in this division before and i trust his bat in thislinup think about it
castillo and prospects and extra cash
for guillen and grienke that would give us a right handed bat and #4 starter leaving us right open 2 get orlando hudson to upgrade our infield defense
its only a thought but i would not be upset if minaya could pull of such moves
What are the chances that the Mets at Lowe and Wolf?
Wolf doesn’t seem to be seeking an unreasonable contract (read: Wolf is not represented by Boras).
*sign.
Eduardo, LOL.
And as for Wolf and Lowe? They could afford it but there would be NO improvements on offense. I would think if they sign Lowe they will pay no more than 6 million for a #5 starter. Most likely it would be a guy like Marquis, or a scrub like Redding. Either of those are fine by me.
Vcarver I actually agree for the most part that the biggest difference is in our front office, althouh I’m not a huge fan of Omar but I don’t think he’s as bad as some of his detractors seem to think.. But I imagine if you look at the money we spend and the Red Sox spend, relative to what we both bring in, when you factor in everything, like SNY for example, we bring in way way more than what the Red Sox do, we spend less overall.
I think we need a right-handed left fielder, with pop. I could go with a platoon in LF. However, I don’t think the platoon should involve Tatis. He is a bench player. I think it is unrealistic to expect the same output from him. I am also worried about Church. After his injury, he was a shell of his former self. Now, I am not saying the Mets need to trade Church, but they would be much better off if they did sign a big bat for LF.
it should be done like this
castillo , nick evans , kunz , and low level starting pitcher prospect and maybe another low prospect and cash to KC
for guillen and zach grienke
sign randy wolf 2 year deal
trade schneider and castro to san fran for molina 2 for 1 swap
sign orlando hudson
Eduardo,
Do you seriously think the Royals are going to give up Greinke for Evans and Kunz? We aren’t playing fantasy baseball. Come on buddy.
if it was up 2 me i would just add neise in the deal but minaya is stuck on him for some reason
Eduardo help me out here.
1) Why in the hell would KC do that? You don’t think they could get a lot more than Evans, Kunz and garbage for Zach Grienke?
2) Why would the Giants trade Molina for two other Catchers on 1 year contracts. I like the idea of Molina but it’s got to include some prospects. Maybe Schnieder to the Rsox for a prospect and that prospect, Castro and cash for Molina.
3) How much money do you think we have? Taking on Gullien and cash as well as signing Hudson to an incredibly bad contract? In fact why would you even want Hudson at all? That’s 25 million you just spent on just Gullien and Hudson? Why?
Eduardo,
Castillo and Guillen is basically swapping bad contracts. So you are sayying that Evans, Kunz, and a low level starting pitcher prospect plus cash is enough to get Greinke? That is not even close to what it would take.
eddy, The Royals aren’t looking to give Grienke away for nothing, if at all.
NYCESQ
so would you pull the trigger if the deal was like this
castillo , evans , kunz, neise , and another low lever prospect and cash
for guillen and grienke
NYCESQ on one hand I agree there’s no reason to think KC should make that trade. On the other hand they’re supposedly considering Greinke for Frenchy, and he’s kind of terrible. So I have to wonder maybe KC is that dumb.
I don’t see how people could possibly think that the Wilpons can suffer a $300 – $500 million loss without it having a major impact on operations. Not to mention the fact that they are heavily invested in real estate during a time when rents are going down and vacancies are going up. The Mets and Bob Dupay can make all the statements they want about Madoff not impacting business, but it has to have an impact. Fred doesn’t have nearly enough money to shrug off a loss that big.
Eduardo is getting killed here..
cval,
You maybe right. We’ll have to see what kind of moves Omar makes from now on.
KC is rumored to be talking the braves about grienke i would trade evans kunz and neise for griekne right now and not have to wait out neise to grow up we need #4 starter now and he is the 1 and cheap then it allows us to sign wolf another cheap starter
and guillen for castillo are bad contracts but that puts guillen in left fielf with sum pop it lets tatis play the bench role more which is better suited for him and it lets tatis plattoon with church i ncase church cant hit lefties once again and then you can either let murphy play second or sign orlando hudson which i would pefer because he is great defense weather you liek or not the guy is gold glove defense and a switch hitter and more pop than castillo and he wants to be a met remember him saying he would want to play here so i could see him dropping his asking price to be on a winner
Start out by offering Fmart and Niese. That’s what it would most likely take. Still want it?
Maybe if you were to part with Church but you could keep one of them but would that even be worth it?
your crazy fmart and neise is the start of a trade for peavy not grienke come on KC woudlnt even be dumb enough 2 ask for fmart and neise in the same offer come on be real
it was said that alot of teams asked omar about neise so he’s not being viewed around the league as a bum teams obviously like this guy so he can be a starting chip
Gina, I’d love for them to be that dumb. But other reports came out that refuted the deal. I also remember reading one saying that it would take much more than Frenchy. At least Frenchy did have Major league success….which is more than I can say for Eduardo’s proposal.
I would need to look at Greinke a bit more. That’s giving up a lot. Still, I don’t know if KC would do it. That said, I don’t have enough data on Greinke to be able to say that it was a good or bad trade, at this point.
Hudson’s defensive ratings are about the same as what Castillo’s were in 2007. Hudson wants 10-12 million a year for 4 years just like what Furcal wants. STAY AWAY. You would get just as much out of Grudzy and 8 million more to spend.
And not to mention you have not addressed how you would afford it. Hudson wants 10 million, Gullien makes 12 million and you want to throw in some cash? Castillo only makes 6 milion. So no matter how you look at it you want to add 20 million of our budget to get 2 players that are not that great at all.
Think about it this way, you could have Wiggy, Molina and Grudzy for cheaper than that.
Eddy, you are so far off on the value of players.
and as for molina ok schneider and castro both 2 san fran seems unreal but i would still trade both maybe castro 2 san fran and take over most of molinas contract then trade schneider right after that for more bullpen help and clear his 4 mill thats not worth having i rather just have cancel back up molina at this point
Eduardo? Do you know how old zach grienke is? He’s 25 with an ERA under 3.50 and is able to throw 200 innings. Not to mention that he is still under contract for at least 2 more years at a salary under 2 million.
Do you not understand what that is worth? That’s worth more than Peavy to a LOT of teams.
i wouldnt mind wiggy , grudzy and molina but where does grudzy get playing time with castillo still on the team
and i would pefer furcal over hudson but unless the mets can pull this trade off by 2maro and offer furcal a better offer than the braves by 2maro night i would have to with hudson over castillo because he simply just isnt worth watching slapping the ball
yea but hes being rumored around that KC talked to braves and another team about trading grienke thats why i brought this all up if hes being rumored the mets shjould give a call not ignore it
plus grienke is on a losing team do you think KC is going to keep him becuase of his stats thats only 1 player KC wants player developmetn if they can get many prospects in return for 1 player they will do it its not like grienke is going to take them 2 the playoffs next year many prospects is more valuble 2 them than just grienke alone
eddy, kunz and evans have little to NO value around the league.
Lets not go nuts about Grienkw here. The guys got a small sample size and I highly doubt somone with his emotional background can handle new york. i want no part of him.
How often did Castillo play last year Eduardo?
Grudzy gives you a starter incase Castillo goes down or a platoon if he stays.
Eduardo how do you know the mets havent given them a call?
So if you were KC you would trade zach grienke who has a ton of value right now for Niese, Evans, and Kunz? Seriously?
Don’t you think they could get MUCH better than that from the Braves? How about St. Louis? The Dodgers? Teams we are not thinking of because of the price?
I am telling you that right now if you traded for him it would take 2/3 of Fmart, Niese and Church.
the real
i wouldnt even mind if grudzy was the starter
i just want to find a way 2 fill the holes with out spendn so much money on players like lowe and perez and at the same time get rid of castillo for a left fielder in return
because look if we get lowe we get prsopects for perez but give them right up because of lowe
if you trade neise evans and kunz and other lowe prospects for grienke you get a starter that equals the value of all those guys being traded and you get to keep the draft picks u get for perez
Right now if we trade for a starter it will be either
1) A salary dump (Marquis)
2) A guy that is a reclamation project (Ian Snell)
We don’t have the prospects to trade for a front end guy. Sorry Eduardo.
i didnt say neise kunz and evans just them iwll get it done they will have to add more low prospects and KC will be dumb and take many prospects and be satisfied plus you tell them w’ere also spelling you from guillens contract and throwing cash so i would say i will only take guillen if grienke is part of the deal
I understand Eduardo. But here’s the thing. You could have Wiggy/Rivera in LF and plain old cut castillo for the same price as bringing in a head case in Gullien.
And you are not going to get Zach Grienke for Niese and scrubs. You might get Ian Snell but that’s not worth Niese. Maybe Evans, Kunz and a lower prospect for Snell?
sigh, its like beating a ead horse.
Royals won’t trade grienke to get rid of guillen, nor will they take a bunch of low level guys that dont project to much; they can do much better dealing with other teams.
i def would trade evans kunz and another lowe level for snell as #5 i would do that in a heart beat
So after trading 4 prospects for Johan and 7 players for Putz you want us to trade 5+ prospects to get Zach Grienke? And even then, again, what would KC what with Niese and a bunch of scrubs?
Mattew Cerrone ; My christmas present is the old format ,so please!
To finish of the KC thing, don’t you think the Braves would offer Escobar? What would we have that would match that? Hmmm, only FMart and that’s not enough.
Do you guys believe in Quality Starts? I do to a certain extent because it means the other team hasn’t blown the game away. Here’s what our rotation would be with 08 Quality starts:
Santana 28
Lowe 20/Perez 17/Sheets 18
Pelfrey 19
Maine 11
Johnson/Wolf 18/Sonnastine 13
Any thoughts?
Now you are getting a bit closer on your trade proposals. Still, couldn’t we be here all day talking about trade proposals with the entire major league?
i mean snells number were not good at all this past season but i see him as a pitcher that can shine in newyork but hes still young so i dno but evans and kunz worth anything to us so snell would be better value in return but how do the pirates see snell
Matthew
For what it’s worth Hudson was actually rated worst defensively by some measures than Castillo.
Also even if we put together a package of the farm for Greinke thereal is right, we would be able to beat out the braves if they offered up Escobar.
Case, shows me that
1) Lowe is worth the money if it’s 16 million or less for 3 years.
2) Wolf is a better bargain than Perez as he will be much cheaper on a shorter contract and we get 2 picks for Ollie.
3) Randy Johnson is the LH version of Nolan Ryan.
By the, Baseballprospectus just released the Mets top 11 Prospects
CITI is sponsoring the rose bowl. Where’s all the hoopla about that?
Johnson 18
I tried posting this yesterday on another thread but it didn’t get posted. I actually like the new comments style.
Anyway, I don’t think it would be a big surprise to see Wilpon raise money by selling a small piece of the company to friends, take on smaller ownership pieces to friendly hands.
300 to 500 million is a big hit for anyone.
i was so hyped up after the rodriguez and putz back to back last week and am coming back down to earth now…castillo really sticks in my craw…i could live with schneider and castro and not like it but luis just makes me want to explode…
This is one of the biggest Mets stories of the year, potentially. I was disappointed to see it took a while to show up on MetsBlog.
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