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Yesterday, during the team’s press conference introducing Francisco Rodriguez, Mets GM Omar Minaya told reporters that he will only puruse Derek Lowe if the pitcher’s price drops from its current level – otherwise he will continue to focus on re-signing Oliver Perez, while keeping tabs on pitchers such as Randy Wolf, Tim Redding, Daniel Cabrera, and others.
…as i wrote yesterday, from what i understand, the Mets want lowe, and like their position, so long as things continue to drag out…the Mets believe they can compete with the Red Sox for him, because neither team is likely to dish out a four– or five-year deal – at that point, it comes down to money, comfort, etc.…
…so, as long as the Yankees stay on the sideline, the Mets are in good shape…in short, it will likely come down to lowe making a tough decision for lowe…
Meanwhile, yesterday, Jerry Manuel had plenty of compliments for Perez, according to the Daily News, who quote him as saying, among other things:
“From a manager’s point of view, I’d love to have Perez back. That’s not my department, (but) I’m hoping to see him back.”
That said, according to Ken Rosenthal, at FoxSports.com:
“The Red Sox and Mets remain possibilities for Lowe, and the Yankees conceivably could re-enter the picture if they fail to re-sign free-agent Andy Pettitte.”
By the way, Rosenthal provides great detail on the market for Mark Teixeira and Manny Ramirez, during which the Mets are never mentioned.
Speaking of starting pitchers…
Jon Heyman of SI.com reports that 35–year-old Japanese LHP Koji Mitsui will post for MLB teams to bid on.
Lastly, John Perrotto of Baseball Prospectus believes the Pirates top the list of teams pursuing Cabrera, who has also drawn interest from the Brewers, Padres, Rangers and Nationals.
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Lowe>Perez.
That’s fine. There has been no movement. All of the FA are waiting on Lowe. Once Lowe makes his decision we will either have him or have a pick of whoever we want after him for less.
Do we know who else is interested in Ollie?
If we’re gonna have to compete with Boston for Lowe then we have very little chance.
i would think that the blue jays might be interested but who knows…i mean they lost burnett, may lose halladay next year and he dominates the yankees and would prob pitchwell against ortiz also
“Do we know who else is interested in Ollie?”
If Manny doesn’t resign with the Dodgers, I would imagine Perez would interest them
“Rosenthal provides great detail on the market for Mark Teixeira and Manny Ramirez, during which the Mets are never mentioned.”
stupid, foolish omar. will he never learn. without either of the bats, it WILL be a second or third place finish. hear me now, believe me later.
I hope beyond all hope that the Mets don’t sign Daniel Cabrera. The man is absolutely awful at being a starting pitcher.
Nostradamus=idiot.
Although I wouldn’t go into the season with the EXACT same lineup, we really only NEED a few adjustments to the offense. Just upgrade one or two of C, 2B, and LF, and we’re set.
Ben sheets>>>>derek lowe
Daniel Cabrera is the righthanded version of Ollie Perez in Ollie’s worst case, but possible (however remotely) scenario.
krod
“we really only NEED a few adjustments to the offense”
LOL…i will be proven right regardless
(7) Stupid foolish Omar, addressing the team’s most glaring deficiencies first.
anyone who has ever heard of the Mets knows that the bullpen is what destroyed them first and then starting pitching which taxed an already dreadful collection of relievers.
the Mets cannot go into next season with same haunting feeling that the SP only goes 5 and Jerry Manual going through every reliever in the pen
money better spent SP than bats, not even a question
what would Sheets cost per year if you gave him two? nobody wants to give more than a year, so the team who offers two probably wins.
it is short term and if for some reason he actually stays healthy (about as likely as Alou) it would be a monster pickup
Lowe>>>Perez, and if Omar blows this, he very well might blow the season.
It’s possible that Perez puts it all together, Pelfrey maintains his #2 level performance, Santana doesn’t regress, and Maine gets back in shape (and Niese comes up aces) but it would be foolish for Omar to count on these things. They need Lowe’s security.
chicken little!
Whether it’s Lowe or Ollie, we need two SPs. Niese should not be starting in the rotation.
Can anyone tell me why it’s not a good idea to compare pitchers Quality Starts and QS%?
For example, Lowe had 20 QS with a .59% and Ollie had 17 QS with a .50%. So does this mean that last year, Lowe was 3 QS better than Ollie and that it justifies preferring Lowe over Ollie?
Anyway, Wolf is interesting, he had 18 QS and .55%, he’ll come cheaper and require less years.
How much would it blow, if Yankees signed Ollie and he turned out aces for them? (Yankees S*ck!)
Jesus, we’re gonna end up paying about +16 millions to a #4 guy in A mets rotation becoz i just have a thought that maine will bounce back and pelfrey will dominate this year.. so he will be our #4 and making only 5 million less than johan.. this guy is soooo overrated.. i posted his #’s yesterday and ppl still want him.. he is not that good.. get me ben sheets and ollie..
And then Wolf will injure his shoulder signing the contract… Look at his innings totals prior to last year (a contract year),
If not Lowe, sign Randy Johnson for crying out loud.
Nostradamus, are you El Guapo from the Mets message board??
Guapo uses that same “hear me now, believe me later” line very frequently.
I’d rank them Lowe > Sheets > Perez.
Letting Perez go for either of them will help salvage the Mets draft, and improve the quality of the big league rotation at the same time.
Why does it seem so simple to everyone but the front office? I can’t imagine Sheets and Perez’s price dropping one Lowe signs somewhere, it will go up instead as Boras will market Perez as the best starter available.
With the way Perez pitches against the Yankees I’m surprised there isn’t more interest with the Red Sox and Blue Jays.
Alex, If you get Sheets then you need a guy that goes more than 5.5 innings as your other pitcher. That is not 5 inning Ollie.
Can we swing Lowe and Sheets? That would be a potentially great rotation.
Santana
Sheets
Lowe
Pelfrey
Maine
With Niese waiting in the wings and gaining more experience in AAA.
Do that and then just tinkering with the offense is fine.
Signing Garland and Randy Johnson would be a very cheap effective way to add innings. IF IF we would use the extra money to upgrade offense.
You could have both of those guys for around 13-15 million.
well the real, look at the other options… ollie is a 5 inning guys, but wolff is oft injure, marquis u never know.. if is up to me i’d sign sheets and garland.. he’s consistant.. maybe not good or garbage like some ppl say but he’s in a new league so that may play into his favor until teams figuere him out..
Peter (24)
they are already saying Lowe is too expensive, no way they sign two guys who are ‘too expensive’
Look at some of those names. Tim Redding, Daniel Cabrerra… thats what they are looking at for the last spot. Awful, I think I would rather have Pedro back than Tim Redding…
(24)
when do we start praying!! sign me up for that!!
Does anybody know the health status of Mark Prior???
He can be a nice pick up and stashed away until healthy, like the Yanks did with Jon Lieber some years ago.
Alex: You’ve completely ignored the important statistics regarding Lowe and instead posted yesterday your cherry-picked small sample sized stats based on one season.
This is a guy who has pitched more than 200 innings in each of his NL years (one year he pitched 199.3) with ERAs in the mid threes or lower. His WHIPS are consistently 1.25 or lower. He’s a groundball pitcher who would have Reyes and Wright on his left side (and as a sinker baller would make a good mentor for Pelfrey).
Even your cherry picked stats about the NL West v. the rest of the world did not account for the fact that he pitched well against the Braves, Phillies, Cubs, Brewers and Dbacks (the best teams in the NL). He was slaughtered by the AL in interleague games, which accounted for some of the flaws in your cherry picking analysis.
The guy is not Dwight Gooden of 1985. But can very well be Ron Darling for this team. He’s a consistent and durable solid pitcher, who will give good, quality professional innings, save the bullpen, and knows a thing or two about winning.
When Ollie Perez had a chance to win this season, he completely lost control. In 2006 when he had a chance to win, he got very lucky by the hair on the leather of Endy Chavez’s mitt. I like Ollie, but he’s a tight rope act.
I think they need Sheets (2) and Wolf (5) at minimum.
Perez and Tim Redding would make this a disasterous offseason, imo.
Old Format bring it back!!!!!!!!
shmoo. No idea, but I’m guessing he could be this years Freddy Garcia.
Hopefully the Mets dont need him in April, but could look to him mid year if something happens.
Maybe between Sheets, Pedro, and Prior the Mets could get one #2 starter. ;)
the chosen,
hello my amigo. you are indeed wise.
(30)
I’m not stating the fact that he was a good pitcher, but at 16 million + i will not get him!! i rather us looking at ben sheets, plus he was helped inmensively by the division and dodger stadium.. do u remeber chan ho park??? remember how good he was with the dodgers and what happened to him afterwards!! odalis perez? anybody… guys let’s not make the same mistake with this guy as texas and kansas did… he was BOMBED out of boston in his walk out year!!!!
Mark Prior is most likely going to stay with the Padres.
There just isn’t a market for him.
Ollie has youth on his side while Lowe is established and is proven to be consistent. Consistent and Ollie do not go together. I would be happy with either of them, but I would rather have Lowe because of his experience, his success, his consistency, and a sinker-ball pitcher with our left-side of the infield is a good combination.
bros, can we PLEASE finally get a consistently bonafide SLUGGER…as in a REAL cleanup hitter. has anyone else noticed….WE DO NOT HAVE ONE!?!? sign manny.
nostradamus, unless your slugger is also going to throw 200 innings we have more pressing needs to address first. Priorities bro…
Odalis Perez and Chan Ho park are no where near Derek Lowe. Odalis has only pitched over 200 innings once in his career (2002) while Lowe has pitched over 199 innings 6 of the past 7 seasons. Lowe was a very good pitcher with Boston (AL east) before he even came to the dodgers and has under a 4 ERA the past 4 seasons, can’t say the same for Odalis…
horrible comparison.
I’d be fine with Garland as well . . . I have a good feeling about him coming to the NL.
Maybe Sheets and Garland???
ok, starz gimme about 4 minutes and i’ll show u something ok..
we did not miss the playoffs in 2007 and 2008 because of our offense. Manny may have made a difference, but even if he got us to the playoffs we would not have gone far with our bullpen…no question about it.
Priorities right now, and last i checked we only have 3 experienced SP.
I thought so!!
Good to see ya my friend.
Alex: Dodger Stadum last year ranked as the second friendliest pitcher’s park according to Park Factor runs statistics. But it was one of the better hitter’s parks in 2007 and it was the BEST hitter’s park in 2006 according to Park Factor runs.
Meanwhile, Shea was ranked among the top 10 for pitchers in all three seasons.
In any event, as long as he’s on and producing ground balls it doesn’t matter where he pitchers.
36
With the Pads cutting costs, paying a few million for a injured payer is a luxary. The Mets on the other hand… It should be worth the gamble.
shmoo, I understand what you’re saying, but last I read, was that Prior was going to resign on a minor league deal.
There are options for starting pitching, but I can see us making a deal for a starter. I do not know who, but I can see it.
Based on the deal for Ibanez and the collpasing market for corner OFs, if Pat Burrell’s contract fell to, let’s say, 2 years at 20 mill, would anyone want him? I know he is a Met killer and that he is a poor defensive player, but he is a lock for 30 and 100. Slot him in 6th behind Beltran, and you have another power stick to deepen the lineup.
It pains me to say that because I have hated Burrell for so long, but on a short term deal with low risk, I could warm to that.
In either case, Omar is going to wait out this market. There are players like Kevin Millar, Juan Rivera, etc. out there who will sit out there for a while until the dust clears on others. Then Omar can swoop in and grab a bargain.
Chan ho park with dodgers from 1996- 2001:
80-49 3.62 ERA..
at dodger stadium: 42-24 2.86 ERA..
Odalis perez with dodgers from 2002-2005:
41-36 3.76 ERA..
at dodger stadium: 20-13 2.92 ERA..
now, go and check their careers after they left…
chris,
lol, guys like rivera, millar, burrell, abreau, dunn WOULD MAKE NO DIFFERENCE IN THE LINEUP..some are lefties and horrible fielders. MANNY IS THE ANSWER and worth every penny. 2 yrs @ 50 with an option third yr
Well I am not saying that I would rather have any of them over Manny, but for 15 mill less per year, Omar and the Wilpons might rather them.
No difference in this lineup? Is Tatis driving in over 80 runs next year? Murphy? Really… no difference at all?
Especially with Abreau… he is always solid offensively.
how come everybody was killing Omar for signing a 33 yr old pedro to a 4 yr deal now but it’s ok to sign a 35 yr old Lowe to a 4 yr deal? we will regret signing Lowe in his 3rd & 4th years worse than we will with pedro. and how come nobody talks about Lowe’s declining velocity? but with k-rod and santana that was such a big issue. Lowe is a good pitcher but I’m not signing a 35 year old to a 4 yr deal at $15M + per year
at this point i see no reason why they shouldnt still sign chad coredero they said he’ll b back sometime be4 the allstar break so he would be worth signing to dominate that 7th role incase sanchez continues to struggle
Smart move for Jerry to go public with his affection for Ollie. (Very Willie-like.) While I like Lowe more than Perez, my feeling is that we’ll sign Perez and then go select our 5th starter (to compete with Niese) from the Wolf, Cabrera, Garland, Freddie Garcia, Tim Redding, et al., batch.
I would not mind Burrell in LF for us – especially on short term contract, which gives him much incentive to perform. Plus, he’s a righty power bat in LF. And his defense, while not stellar, is certainly better than Tatis’s.
Alex — that’s silly talk. First of all, Odalis had two decent seasons in LA and two bad ones. And this past season in Washington may have been his third best season of his career. He’s just not a very good pitcher.
Derek Lowe had a pretty nice career before he got to L.A. And since he’s gotten there he’s refined his game to focus more on his sinker than anything else.
Look at a similar sinkerballer who also pitched well in LA… Kevin Brown. He also pitched well in SD, Bal, Tex, and about 15 other cities.
Park also fell apart while still at LA.
Good pitchers are good pitchers. Period.
Pedro Martinez also survived leaving Dodger Stadium…. eh?
BigPelf:
The difference in Lowe losing velocity vs. most is that his velocity isn’t all that relevant to how he pitches.
(51)
THANK YOUUUUUUUUUU!!!!
derek lowe will get murderer here in NY if he doesn’t perform to that contract… he is not that good.. and i do not wanna see him even this year to be our #4 coz as i’ve said before, maine AND pelfrey will be better than him..
isn’t a Putz intro supposed to be today at 11?
Big Pelf (61) -
Excellent question.
It also blows my mind to see names like Redding, Garland and Wolf being thrown around. None of those guys have had more than 2 seasons with an ERA below 4.
And Daniel Cabrera?? He’s never had an ERA below 4.
Give me Pedro instead of any of those guys for the #5 spot. He might not be the same Pedro anymore, but he’s a gamer who I’d feel much more comfortable taking my chances with.
it looks like lowe or ollie will be in the rotation so it comes down to that final starter. i hope omar does the right thing and makes this rotation 5 deep. he must get a guy who pitches 200 effetive innings a year. not a project who goes 4 or 5 inning for two months like lima, chan ho park, pedro, or niese.
santana
lowe or ollie
pelfrey
maine
garland or equivalent
Wanny Backstra:
velocity isn’t that important for lowe but it is for everybody else? that’s the dumbest comment I’ve heard in a while. if his sinker isn’t on (which it won’t be in probably 1/3 of his starts) then we’re ok with a guy throwing 86-88 mph with an ok curve/change?
WB:
How dare you mention when pedro left to lowe..? when brown left the dodgers he was BOMBED!!!!! at the age of 36 exactly:
kevin brown with dodgers: 51-28 2.74ERA…
at dodger stadium: 31-17 2.30 ERA…
ridiculous numbers at dodgers stadium, please OMAR, do not sign LOWE!!!!!!!!!!
Tatis is not driving in 80 Runs. Tatis has a better chance of batting .220 then repeating what he did last year…
Unfortunately Manny will probably not be here so here is what the Mets should do
sign Lowe or Perez as plan B (3-4years)
sign Pedro, Penny or Wolf (1 year)
sign Eckstein (1-2 years)
sign RH OF like Juan Rivera (1-2 years)
get a utility infielder (i prefer Aaron Miles)
get a LHRP (Takahaski, Ohman etc.)
get rid of Castillo (buy him out as last resort)
get rid of Marlon Anderson (or use him as UI)
Reyes
Eckstein/Murphy
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Rivera/Murphy
Church/Rivera
Schneider/Castro
Castro
Miles/Anderson or another UI
Murphy (super sub)
Tatis
Reed/Pagan
Santana
Lowe
Pelfrey
Maine
Pedro/Penny/Wolf/Niese
Stokes/Figueroa
Takahashi (or another LHRP)
Feliciano
Green
Sanchez
Putz
Rodriguez
wanny, you make no sense, doesn’t sinker ballers neeed different velocity to fool hitters as well?
Lowe’s age should not be a deterrent to signing him to a four-year deal. 39 is not as old as it used to be in the world of baseball. Additionally, he has only been a starter for six seasons, and has therefore not logged as many innings as someone his age typically would have logged. On top of that he’s a sinkerballer, so he may not be expected to deteriorate as rapidly as one might think. Long story short, he’s still probably going to be an effective pitcher at the tail-end of the contract.
oleo, pretty much spot on. Players can be tweaked a bit, but the concept is just what they need.
(61)
oleo, you make great point, but i tell you.. we will have even more problems when delgado doesn’t hit, or if murphy struggles, or if church goes back to his after concussion mode.. our offense will struggle big time if any of the “core guys ” struggle.. they need to have MONSTER years from wright, beltran and #7
“Lowe’s age should not be a deterrent to signing him to a four-year deal. 39 is not as old as it used to be in the world of baseball”
PEDRO IS 36 let’s go and sign him..
dcmetsfan and thechosen1
couldnt agree more
I’d rather see Pedro as the #5 over Marquis, Wolf, Redding etc. not only was he pretty much the same pitcher as them last season, he’ll only get better plus the intangiables and the sentimental value are there…
as for Lowe. he’ll gaurantee the Mets, 6 IP 3R or less every start and finish up with 15 W 200 IP and an era under 3.80
he wont blow guys away like Perez at his best but he wont lose his ability to throw a strike and have to leave the game in the 3rd inning either…
is matt out shopping for xmas? get to work :)
dont ban me bro
oleo:
here’s the thing, if we comparing lowe and perez of course he’s better, i don’t agree with perez asking for 13 millions, but lowe is not asking for 13, he’s asking for 18 or something like that.. he is not worth it!! he will be our #4 pitcher making 18 millions yet we don’t wanna sign money due to money issues.. get ben sheets, garland as our #5 and have somebody like penny or garcia in the wings along with niese..
alex
” they need to have MONSTER years from wright, beltran and #7″
lol dont hold your breath. on the other hand, we can all virtually guarentee that manny WILL have a monster year….the question is for who???
Above should read I could *see* signing.
(62)
alex, Wanny;s point (as I understand it anyway) is a guy like Lowe who pitches to contact isn’t as vulnerable to decreased velocity than a power pitcher (see Pedro) who relies on Ks to get outs. If he’s pounding the bottom of the zone with downward action, you’re going to get a lot of ground balls to the left side of our infield which plays to our strengths.
oleosmirf:
15 W 200 IP and 3.80 ERA? that’s what perez will give us and he KILLS the phillies who by the way added another lefty to their lineup in ibanez and perez is almost 9 years younger than lowe.
LOWE’S SPLITS THE LAST 3 SEASONS:
ERA W L G GS CG IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG
Away 4.24 17 18 52 52 3 308.0 326 166 145 23 89 194 .273
Home 2.95 25 15 50 48 2 320.1 283 115 105 25 70 223 .235
(70)
nostra:
you have to say than other than beltran’s 2005 season and reyes 2007 they’ve had good solid season since 2006… all three are oretty good… i’d like to see them bat 1-2-3 to see what actually happens..
(69)
get ben sheets, garland as our #5 and have somebody like penny or garcia in the wings along with niese..
I’d sign up for this.
(72)
agree, what about the right side? with castillo who can’t move and delgado who got his feet stone to the ground? think both ways as well man..
alex242
well i dont see why Delgado at a minimum can’t give the Mets .255 25 HR 85 RBI which isn’t that bad for a #5 hitter but if he’s healthy i expect .260 30+ HR and 100+ RBI and that is perfectly fine.
Reyes, Beltran, Wright will be just as they were last year with Reyes and Wright only getting better…
Murphy who knows but .280 10-15 HR is very reasonable
Church and Rivera each is 270 15-20 HR is great for the 6-7 hole plus they can field very well
Eckstein will give us what LoDuca was in 06 just more speed and no Italian temper…
Schneider and Castro in the 8 hole is .250 15 HR, and for thr 8 hole you can do much worse
Miles and Tatis are both capable of starting if needed…
Alex: Change in velocities does not necessarily equate to pitching at high velocities. See Greg Maddux.
Also, Kevin Brown was finished after he left the Dodgers because he was INJURED not because he was swallowed into some fictional, factless and ridiculous theory of Dodger Stadium ruins.
Flushing has never been a hitter’s paradise in any event.
Pelf:
It’s not near stupid. Pitchers who rely on movement and location do not need to throw 90+. Where have you been? Glavine? Maddux? Pedro? Mussina? John Franco? These are all veterans (among the list of very many) who have proven you can win with change of speeds and location rather than velocity.
When did Pelfrey get better this season? When he started relying more on control than velocity and took it a notch down.
Guys who produce groundballs, like Brown, Webb, Wang and others don’t need to throw 90 plus if they’re ball has sink and can be thrown at the knees.
alex,
yes they are fairly solid. BUT, the mets do not have a bonifide CONSISTENT power slugger…not since piazza. have you not noticed that….THEY NEED ONE? MANNY is THE ANSWER…..and he is servicible in LF. 2 yrs @ 50M….worth every penny (not to mention the WS)
I Know what im going to say wont happen but ive been talking about more realistic moves latly i want to have some fun and make up what moves i would do at this point if i were the mets.
I would
trade Delgado , castro , evans
for Randy winn, and molina
or Delgado ,evans , ike davis , bobby parnell or Jenry Mejia i would pefer to keep parnell but if he had to go in for mejia i would do it
for Randy winn , and either noah lowry or jonathn sanchez
So on the 1st deal if it went down we would get randy winn which could play leftfield with murphy and move tatis to the bench and help out church in right field. And we would get Molina and get rid of castro and evans which would be worth giving up both of them but with taking a good amount of his salary because i doubt they would do it unless we took a big amount.
On the Second deal we would give up Delgado for Winn once again he will play left field and rid of delgado from us and trade evans and ike davis and either parnell or mejia this would get us either noah lowry or jonthan sanchez for the 5th spot and Winn plattons with murph in left.
If either of these trades went down that would clear delgado from 1st base with getting the outfield player we could use and a 5th spot pitcher or an upgrade in the catcher position
With Delgado gone the mets can move in and go after Mark texeria to be there 1st baseman of the future in a 8 year deal and raise the bar of price on other teams but def. offer him the lowest salary for this season so we can still have money for a 4th starter.
If the trade went down with winn and molina i think the best rout would be signing lowe becuase we would just keep neise fighting with others for the 5th spot maybe sign pedro for 1 year deal and see what happends
Now if the 2nd trade went down and we got Randy winn and Noah lowry or Sanchez
we would have our left fielder still and now we have our 5th spot starter so if we get either lowry or sanchez than we should forget about lowe and wait till olivers price comes down because it will and than give him a contract at our price.
So either trade makes us better we would end with a good left fielder and catcher or a 5th rotation spot at the cost of delgado or minor league players and would make room for a young good defensive player of the future for this team instead of riding out delgado for the last year and not have much choises for 1st base the year after so this would upgrade our team and younger at the same time but neither trade is worth considering if the mets simply feel they dont have the money to go after TEX other wise its not worth it if your trading Delgado you have to bring in return either Manny or TEX
Exactly, MetsLV.
oleo:
carlos delgado in 2007: 258 24hr’s 87 rbi’s
do you know how many rallies this guy killed?
if you want your #4 hitter to hit like this or your expecting your #4 hitters to have this numbers your expecting TROUBLE!!!
and murphy i’d love to see that but we don’t know for sure yet he will give us that.. for church i’d be happy with that, and rivera, well, last i checked he’s a free agent and is not a met so i can’t comment on that
(78)
wanny i agree, but also those guys had a lethal 2nd pitch!! webb’s change up is sick!! maddux.. well, and glavine is a lefty just like moyer who relies on off speed and changing them.. also, all those guys u mention, at least threw 90 mph… with movement.. what’s so lethal about second pitch.. he has good, not devastating as maddux and them had..
(79)
nostra:
i can’t argue with you on that.. dlegado gave us that in 2006 and last year.. but with a lefty can be neutralize..
alex and bigpelf
Perez: 34 GS 194 IP 10 W 4.24 ERA 105 BB 180 K 1.40 WHIP
average start: 5.71 IP against Phillies 12 G 3.15 ERA (career)
Lowe: 34 GS 211 IP 14 W 3.25 ERA 45 BB 147 K 1.13 WHIP
average start: 6.21 IP against Philly 11 G 3.02 ERA (career)
please explain why Lowe isnt worth 3-6 mil more a season??
78 – wanny
“It’s not near stupid. Pitchers who rely on movement and location do not need to throw 90+. Where have you been? Glavine? Maddux? Pedro? Mussina? John Franco?”
1st of all, 3 of the guys on this list are hall of famers and the other 2 are close so let’s not compare derek lowe to any of these guys cause that’s dumber than you’re comment earlier. by the way what’s these guys combined records/ERA at the back end of their career wanny? are you derek lowe’s brother? or scott boras? cause again lowe is a good pitcher but not worth what he’s asking for
(85 & 86)
BIGPELF: LMAO!!!!
OLEO: perez is 26… lowe is 36… the mets save money on k-rod.. use it wisely, this guy is not worth 18 millions a year..
oleosmirf 85
2 differences:
1 – most important is age
2 – we need another lefty in the rotation besides johan not named niese or wolf
In a nutshell, us and the redsox seem to be the only 2 real players for lowe…its very simple, if his # and # of yrs gets to where we like it, we are going to try and take him,,,if not, we are most likely going to try and bring back ollie…the end….
alex
Delgado in 2008 .271 40 HR (2 werent counted) 115+ RBI
how many huge HR did he have?
Delgado in 2006 .265 38 HR 115 RBI
Delgado in 2007 is more of an outlier than 2008. (had a bad wrist all season)
my projection for 2009 .260 32 HR 101 RBI a drop off of 11 points, 8 HR and 14+ RBI (very reasonable)
(76)
I still hope that we do something about 2B. As for Delgado, while I doubt he’ll put up offensive numbers like his second half, it’s not unreasonable to think he could play the level of D he displayed.
Even if it was Carlos and Luis on the right, I’d rather let a single squeeze by them and keep the ball in the park. In Lowe’s last 628.1IP (3 seaons) he’s allowed only 48 HRs. In Perez’s last 526.42 IP (4 seasons) he’s allowed 89HRs! Nearly double….in about 100 less IP…
Lowe is not worth 16-18 mil but Perez is not worth 12-14 Mil so you’re overpaying no matter what
i’d rather overpay for Lowe than overpay for Perez
Or do you overpay for neither, avoid the inflated mortgage industry scenario and go the Sheets (fixer-upper) and Garland (affordable) way?
the mets should sign there 5 th starter 1st right away or decide on what there going to do with neise if he’s going to be the starter o what because they need 2 solove the 5th spot 1st so it makes the decsion between lowe and perez alot simply
I don’t feel like you can go by Lowe’s age in this case. He hasn’t been a starter his entire career, he became one at the age of 29. He has not logged a lot of innings like pitchers that come up at starters at an earlier age. I’m not sold on 4 yrs, but i can live with 3.
The thing that annoys me about this offseason is that we are apparantly trying to stay around last seasons payroll(for some reason), yet this is with Wagner still on the books(10+mil). I would like to see them spend that extra 10mil improving the team.
Peter, no way this team relies on an injury prone pitcher as a key cog.
I vote over paying for neither and going with Garland AND Wolf. Then using all the extra money on offense.
91MetsLv31 91
in hamels last 543 IP he’s let up 72 HRs (3 seasons)
in santana’s last 687 IP he’s let up 80 HRs (3 seasons)
so with your logic lowe is better than hamels & santana. lowe happened to pitch in a division the last 3 years that has some of the worst offenses and biggest parks in MLB
BigPelf:
Rather than attempt to insult my intelligence, I’d prefer you present some facts.
Demonstrate why Lowe’s age is such a problem. He has not shown any sign of deterioration in his performance. In fact, his performance has been consistently very good with 200 innings per season of quality pitching.
Demonstrate why his alleged lack of velocity is a factor. You have not. While Lowe is not a HOFer like some of the guys I mentioned, the fact remains that you do not have to throw 95 plus to be effective. The guy produced the second highest ground ball rate in the national league last year. That is a FACT.
Are you going to tell me that a guy who does not walk anbody and produces a lot of groundballs will not be effective? Because if you are, then you better change your man crush on Pelfrey because that is the type of pitcher Pelfrey needs to be to be effective. Pelf has an extremely low strikeout rate for a hard thrower. He’s better when he doesn’t throw as hard and hits his spots.
You want young guys who were effective in producing groundballs without overpowering stuff? Jair Jurgens? John Lannan? Aaron Cook?
Did Mike Mussina look old last season? He throws as hard as I do and won 20 games. Why? He didn’t rely on power.
jaydh
Are you going to spot them the additional 10M? That still has to come from somewhere, and I don’t think Wilpon is going to just be throwing money around at the moment…
Man, Lots of stuff on here to talk about.
BigPelf, That’s exactly the point. Why give a 36 year old that long a contract and that much money.
Perez is 29, not 26.
Delgado had 2 good months. 2 that is it. Go look at his monthly numbers. April-.204, May-.258-June-.229,July-.357, August-.248, September-.340.
His power Numbers were there every month. The only difference was 5 or 6 singles.
I don’t like Delgado personally. He’s too streaky of a player for me. I’d much rather have someone else there. He’s a huge defensive liability. Most of Reyes’s and Wright’s errors can be prevented with a better fielder over there, ala John Olereud when he was there, made the defense that much better. Also Delgado sulked and brought down the entire club for 2 or 3 months when Willie was the manager(i wasn’t a willie guy either but he lead the revolt).
To change the mind set of this team one simple thing to do is Send Carlos Delgado Packing. And let the Future (reyes, wright, beltran, Johan, Pelfrey) establish themselves as THE GUYS!!!! on this team. As long as the Old Vet is at first corrupting people to revolt against a manager, then this team’s mind-set won’t change.
I’ve been on the dump Delgado bandwagon since the End of May last season.
Eduardo, you don’t want to hurry up and get the 5th starter because that limits you on who you pick.
Again if you get stuck without Perez or Lowe and you signed Daniel Cabrerra what do you do then?
I just don’t think Wagner’s money should deter them from spending a little extra.
trs86
overpaying for Lowe makes the Mets better. Garland is decent but Wolf is no better than Pedro…
I just don’t see the decline in Lowe’s performance that substantiates the belief that he won’t make it through at least 2 years of a 3-4 year deal.
And I can’t see why overpaying Perez, who has proven nothing in his career, is better than over paying a proven commodity.
Come on Wolf is MUCH better than Pedro.
Adding 400 innings to your rotation is never a bad thing, if you use the extra money to improve other areas.
Mark (101) –
Close. Perez is 27. He’ll be 28 in August 2009.
jaydh (96)
Peter, no way this team relies on an injury prone pitcher as a key cog.
Well . . . this is the Mets. Pedro anyone?
At least Sheets has tremendous upside. Garland provides stability (innings). Niese/Garcia? provide support.
I would definately take a chance on pedro for the 5spot. bigger risk, but bigger reward. thats what we should be going for in the 5spot.
Bigpelf (98)
Don’t be ridiculous, I never said Lowe was better than Santana. I said we have a choice better Ollie and Lowe, and Lowe keeps the ball on the ground which plays to our strengths.
Also, as Wanny said in 99, please give some facts to support your opinions instead of calling people stupid.
Peter, But sheets would be expected to be the #2. I think they’ve learned their lesson.
Nostro said:
“we can all virtually guarentee that manny WILL have a monster year”
Well, I won’t agree tothis. ANd certainly no more likely than DW, CB or JR having a big year.
Manny dogged his way out of Boston for 1 reason: to get a bigger contract. And he played hard (good behavior, all out, etc.) for a couple of onths in LA.
Why? For the contract.
so, once he signs the big deal, you expect him to hustle 100%, dive for balls, ehatever? And put up the sam e intensity, and willingness to play through aches/pains?
And at age 37, with some lingering knee issues, to stay healthy all year?
If you are expecting all that out of Manny, you should also expect another 40/120 year out of Delgado.
I would not be surprised to see Manny put up a solid year. I would be shocked if he managed to play 150+ games or had a monster year (unless, of course, he ends up on a 1 year deal!)
With his D, he also really needs to go to the AL.
18 millions + 5 can give you sheets and garland and with 3 to 4 millions more you can get a garcia, penny to help them revive their career and tell them: “with maine coming off an injury year and sheets being injury prone and likely to go on the dl at least once you will have a chance to start at least 10 games.. at least.. come play for us.. tell me that’s not better than having lowe + a low budget starter and NO back up if more than one pitcher gets hurt..
TRS (106)
Come on now. You usually make very good posts, but, wolf better than Pedro??
No way. He’s not even slightly better, nevermind MUCH.
Wolf’s about a 5 ERA pitcher who over aveived in 2008.
Pedro is done.
109 innings 5.61 ERA, 1.569 WHIP. That’s not even good enough to be a 7th starter.
Yeah, I am over Manny. Dunn is the only really big bat left. Ks and all his negatives aside, 40 HR and 100 BB would be nice.
And hard to believe as it is, Ollie is actually only 27.
Lowe is reliable, but Ollie, being 27, can be better. And, Ollie’s last two years are almost as good as Lowe’s.
Ollie belongs with this group of Mets I think.
Alex: That’s fine and dandy. But who says the Mets are going to pay Lowe $18m for 5 years?
The slow economy and being swindled out of hundreds of millions of dollars will probably keep them from spending a little extra…
I’m glad they aren’t trying to dump salary, but I would be shocked to see them go the Yankee route and throw money at anyone with a pulse.
TRS, to be fair, Pedro was hurt and his dad died. If Pedro pitches like he did the last game he pitched, I want him.
Brad Penny is not going anywhere to get a “chance” at 10 starts, by the way.
pedro is DONE!! but you can argue back and forth with wolff and who’s better.. wolff will help us more becoz he’s a lefty and our biggest competition is a heavy lefty hitting team..
You guys are caught up in what Pedro used to be. The guy has not pitched 135 innings in any season since 2005. He is done. Why not bring back Elduque? He is a hell of a pitcher when healthy?
We need someone who was at LEAST healthy last season. Otherwise why not just give it to Niese because you will be anyway after Pedro’s first “start”.
Wanny Backstra
I’m not billy beane over here and give you some garbage groundball rates. I know baseball and I can tell you what I see. so mussina had a good season last year in year he said he pitched with no pressure because he knew he was retiring, well the season before that he had an ERA of 5.15.
Pelfrey throws low-mid 90s and got by a lot of games throwing 94 mph 2 seamers when his sinker was off. good lineups will recognize the sinker, lay off it because it’s a ball and make you throw other pitches, that’s where lowe’s lack of velocity comes into play.
101mark4212 – 101
perez just turned 27 in august. lowe will be 36 in june or 40 at the end of a 4 yr deal
lowe will no way get 18 per year, at least no from the mets…i would guess the mets’ ceiling on him is maybe 16 per…then there is the # of yrs to discuss…i dont see the mets going for more than 3, nor would i want them too….
Alex, I’m through with the idea of signing players when I have to say, ” player x is injury prone and likely to go on the dl at least once”
I would rather have Randy Johnson than to even THINK about bringing Pedro back. Take a look at those numbers and see which one you would want based on facts.
In 2006–2008 Pedro pitched 270 innings and gave up 38 homers. He has been done for three years. he is a great hall of famer, and was far better as a teammate, as a clubhouse guy, with the fans, etc than the Boston media had portrayed him, but I think he is completely done as a winning pitcher.
And he also has not been able to stay healthy since the end of 2006. This is not what we need.
I think Omar is thinking of him as a very, very last resort, if Lowe, Ollie, and everyone else sign elsewhere.
Wanny:
how do you know that penny won’t? or garcia?
and isn’t that what he was asking for.? 16 to 18 millions? i rather have sheeets who can get healthy and be a total BEAST along with santana.. and if pelfrey develops even more and maine is good again we can have the best 1-4 in the majors! better than the cubs even with them acquiring peavy…
To be fair Jaydh, Pedro is ALWAYS hurt. That is why we can’t bring him back. There is no hope for him suddenly to be healthy again.
BigPelf, you’ve won the argument. There is no way to disagree with someone who says I don’t use garbage statistics to judge a players worth. “I know baseball and I can tell you what I see.”
and whoever keeps talking about sheets I think is really reaching, because I do not see that one happening…not with his injury history..granted, WHEN healthy, he’s one of the best going, but the mets especially are not looking to take a big risk like sheets..
i love pedro. best pitcher of the generation and perhaps all-time based on pitching in the steroid era, but he’s done.
even if he can pitch somewhat effectively at any time he can go down then we have a “jose lima situation” again
ollie @ 10 million for 3, with a fourth year option
lowe @ 16 million for 3, with a fourth year option
santana
lowe
ollie
pelfrey
maine
niese
sign cordero and ohman
krod
putz
cordero/sanchez
ohman/feliciano
green
stokes
lv and wanny:
ok, i agree that we’ve been burned before, but at least if we get him we know what the deal is.. if healthy sheets is great, and even i know that’s a big if, but lowe will crash and burn here.. and when he gets bombed in NY we won’t be forgiven.. in boston he was beloved becoz his 2004 postseason performance, here he hasn’t done jack!!
LOL, Ollie at 3/30. Right.
134:
yea ok..
deaner
that would be great, but neither pitcher is signing at those numbers or years.
Sheets is fine but the problem is then you HAVE to bring in a guy that will no matter what pitch 200 innings. Maybe a Garland if you have to go cheap.
You can’t have 5 inning Ollie and 5 game Sheets in the same rotation.
Pelf:
If groundball rates are garbage, then we’re done here. I can’t possibly have a debate about a pitcher and ignore the most relevant of statistics in favor of your untrained scouting eye.
And why are sinkers balls? And if they are, how come Lowe doesn’t walk anybody?
And you may love Pelfrey and you may watch baseball. But you clearly missed the turning point in his season — when he focused less on his velocity and more on the movement of his pitches. His walk troubles early in the season were always related to his fastball.
Rather than call people dumb because you disagree with them, you can instead try to understand the reasoning behind their opinions. And I’ve asked you for yours but you refuse to to share it.
TRS:
that’s what i said, get garland who will give you 200 innings and get sheets, niese can spot him a few times in case he gets hurt.. but we need to have a powerful 1-2 punch (i also believe pelfrey and santana will be that) if we’re coming back with the same offense becoz we will be in a lot of those 3-2 games..
alex, I just don’t see Lowe crashing and burning here. He might not be putting up HOF numbers, but he’ll be more consistent and help rest the pen (something we could’ve used in recent years…) Lowe will give you around 200 IP and a 3.50 ERA for 2 years…
I also don’t see him getting $18 per season or any more than a 3 yr deal w/ a 4th option.
If you could get Lowe for 3 yrs at around $15 you wouldn’t take it?
alex — remember when KRod wanted $75M? What Lowe wants and what he’ll get are two different things.
But I still don’t see any reason to believe that he will combust in NY. None.
I’m tantalized enough by Sheets’ talent to take a chance on him as long as a veteran capable of filling innings is brought in for the 5 (read, not Randy Wolf).
they are not gonna get sheets, it is going to be lowe or ollie, (NOT both, whoever said that) and ollie is not going to take 10 per year..its probably gonna be more like 12-13 ish….
Pedro may be done. Only time will tell. But Wolf was never really good on a consistent basis.
alex — I would actually do something like Sheets/Garland but would rather Marquis with one year remaining than Garland, who would require a longer term deal.
Garland is an innings horse. But they’re mostly crappy innings. No one needs that for 3 years.
But Lowe is still the safest bet all around. There’s no way of refuting that. If there is, no one has shown it to me yet and I’d be happy to see it.
Ian Snell and Jeremey Bonderman have great ground ball rates, let’s trade for them.
I’m not sure a pitcher with a high ground ball rate is a good thing with delgado and castillo currently patrolling 1st & 2nd base. you gave your opinion, I gave mine. you compared derek lowe to a coupld of 300 game winners and pedro, that’s dumb.
Putz was on the fan. Suppossedly Jerry is going with a 70/30 closer role. Frankie will go 70% of the time and Putz 30%…. I like it.
Lv:
fine, we’re going to get him anyways, the market is not really after him, but remember when he starts failing remmeber me
Wanny:
the difference is there were like 20 closers available!! we got putz to be a set up!! that’s why his salary reduce so much from 15 to 12..
It looks like Omar is pinning Boras’ two clients against each other.
Big pelf:
that’s my point, when howard, utley, ibanez and them lefty heavy hitting teams starts grounding to the right side we’ll see how much that will help us..
Lookin at all the comments for any type of subject… I gotta say, we are some obsessed and dedicated SOBs.
What about Schnieder or Castro for Melvin Mora? He is in his last year, put up good numbers last season and can play IF/OF>
did you guy hear Putz on the fan? he said he would intentionally though some chin music at one of the phillies for trash talking. then Joe suggested he do it at rollins first at bat he faces him and he woiuld instantly become a fan fav in ny
good stuff to hear there the fonz…he is gonna fit in just fine…and good point qnsnative….we are definitely obsessed….the new season cant come fast enough
Pelf:
Don’t call me dumb and then tell me that Ian Snell’s .62 g/f rate is good. That’s absurd. He was 49th among 55 NLers with 140 IP or more. And who was last….? Ollie Perez! Sure hope Ollie doesn’t go to Colorado.
Bonderman did have a good g/f rate. But he pitched only 12 games and walked 36 hitters in 71 innings. Lowe walked 45 in 211 IP!!!
C’mon. You’re either being disingenuous or lazy. Which is it?
P.S.
Please don’t call me dumb and come back with crap like this.
Wanny and Pelf:
Lol, relax guys, i’m sure we as fans want what’s best for our team, but sometimes we all say dumb and stuff ideas as well as very smart ones.. with that being said is almost christmas.. time for joy..
thereal: No way is Castro or Schnieder getting Mora. Not to mention I would doubt he would agree from being the 3B to utl. in/of. He would be one expensive utl. in/of. He is making 8 mil or so. I really like Brian S. I do not see any Catcher making the impact on the Mets that he does. Don’t tell me Tek because he is done as a player. I-Rod is over the hill.