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Jon Heyman of SI.com believes the Mets are waiting for Scott Boras to find Mark Teixeira a new contract before seriously engaging him about free-agents Derek Lowe and Oliver Perez.
Heyman says the Mets will first target Lowe, then turn to Perez or Randy Wolf in necessary, from Category A, after which they’ll also look to acquire a pitcher from Category B, such as free agent Freddy Garcia or Tim Redding, or Cubs RHP Jason Marquis.
So, to follow the Teixeira market, during which a) the Red Sox are still very much alive, and b) the Mets have never been mentioned as a suitor, read the play-by-play at MLB Trade Rumors.
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To me, if you decide you are not going to get Manny or Tex, there is no reason they can’t sign Ollie and Lowe.
If they sign Lowe, I’d rather they get Garland or swap for Marquis instead of Ollie. I’m tired of riding the Ollie coaster and after signing a multi-year contract, I could see Ollie easily losing what little focus he has.
Yeah, but it’s also hard to ignore how much Ollie owns the Braves and Phils…
it is when he has an ERA over 8 vs the rest of the league.
I agree only because if you do resign Ollie you don’t regain the draft picks that you lost with K-Rod.
Do you think the Jays would take Delgado for B.J. Ryan? He’d be a nice lefty to add to the pen, then we can sign Burrell for left and platoon Tatis and Murphy at 1B
Wolf shold be in that B category. Plus he is looking for 3/$30. no thanks.
no way is wolf worth it. i’d pay ollie and/or lowe and that’s it. otherwise, sign someone off the scrap heap like mark hendrickson
Is Hendrickson avail?? if so take a flier on him and Penny as the nmbr 5….and get Lowe…. anyone else getn upset that Omar doesnt appear ready to get us anything for Xmas??
Geez Johan, Putz and KRod wasn’t a nice enough XMas gift??? :)
In the past, I always wanted a Christmas present from the Mets, but after Omar pulled off Jhan last year, we have the month of January yet. With Boras controlling a lot of the prime time players left, we have to wait. I would like Derek Lowe / Tim Redding if they are indeed going with one guy from Group A and the other from Group B.
I also would like Alex Cora as the backup middle infielder. As far as LF, I would be alright with the platoon on a two month trial basis and see how it goes.
For RF, I would try to package Church and Schneider for more pitching IF we could get Abreu for 3 years / $36 million. Even if he doesn’t like the wall, the offensive upgrade would be significant. He hits for average, his OBP is great, is an RBI machine, steals bases and knows HOW to run the bases. That’s something a lot of us overlook, how good is somebody on the basepaths.
Those moves dont count….they are 10 days old..this is Xmas not Hanakah..lol….I want a nice pitcher under my tree in a Mets uni …. cough** Omar?? U know what Im saying??? lol
every time i think omar is an idiot he does something to surprise me…our gm is not done yet…and his patience is often virtuous…
You’re supposed to think he’s an idiot still to that he can surprise you again.
btw whats wrong with garland?
i’d rather let brandon knight be the fifth starter and save my money than sign garland
garland is basically the same as perez, just a righty.
garland has zero upside. he had 90 Ks and hitters batted .303 against him last year. ollie k’d 180 and allowed a .234 BAA. how can you compare them?
what is ollies upside? or is it just appeared upside yet if he never ges his control down, he has no upside as well.
Garland will consistently give you 6+IP at around the same ERA as ollie. All while being cheaper as well.
No upside? I’m sorry, but purely on skill alone, Olie > Garland. That slider is just filthy when it’s on. Ollie makes some of the best hitters look foolish at times and he’s still relatively young…
as often as perez makes batters look silly, he makes himself look silly as well. Btw, garland is only 1.5 yrs older than perez.
I would say perez has more upside, mostly because of his splits against lefties, and more downside, also because of his splits against righties. You know Garland will be consistently bordering the line between mediocre and crappy, Perez can be great or an absolute nightmare.
He sux.
I tell you, if Freddy Garcia is healthy and fully pitches up to his capabilities, that’s a tremendous 5th starter.
that’s a huge if….i’d rather bring pedro back
Me too. He had some velocity back, and if he can get his arm angle back to where it was…..
Wolf in the “A” category? Does this guy think we’re all stupid? Both Wolf and Garland are in the “garbage” category, and Fred Wilpon is in the “cheapo” category. I’ve had enough.
And mistermet is in the “annoying” category.
ROTOWORLD.COM
Tom O’Connell, the agent for Tim Redding, said his client “loves” New York and the Mets are “very much in the mix” to sign the free agent starter.
“We’re still relatively early in the process, because Tim just got on the market, but we definitely are considering New York, 100%,” said O’Connell. The Rangers, Rockies and Orioles are also seeking Redding’s services.
Johan, I wouldn’t mind Redding on a short term, affordable deal and as a #5.
That’s just his agent drumming up the biz … “puffing.”
JohanRedding just doesnt have the same ring to it…
Only way I want Redding here is if you sign Lowe- you can’t bring in people like Randy Wolf or Tim Redding and tell us that that you got a “big” starter. Unacceptable. So that Rosenthal thing says the Red Sox are going to sign both Lowe and Teixeira? Why can’t the Mets get 2 big fish? Isn’t their payroll already higher than ours, even at this point? The Mets payroll should be closer to the Yankees than it is to the Braves, this is a joke. I don’t care what you people say- the Mets’ payroll, which is going to end up in the 135 million area, is not representative of the soaring revenues they are bringing in- sell the team, Wilpon.
No, the Red Sox payroll is much lower than the Mets right now. The Red Sox do this thing called ‘developing thier own players’ It keeps payroll down and gets the talent up. The Mets would do well to attemp this again…
Red Sox are at ~80MM committed to 10 veterans, with numerous 0-3 and arbitration players filling vital roles such as Ace, Closer, and Cleanup Hitter. The Mets have $110MM to 14 vets, with a scant few younger players helping out in secondary roles.
The Mets will have to get Ellsbury/Pedrioa like production from Murphy and FM in 2010 to get anywhere near the Red Sox enviable talent to payroll ratio.
Nevermind Jon Lester production from pelfrey.
Papelbon production from Eddie Kunz…
this could go on and on :-|
I love how the Mets say they can’t spend that much more because they’ve already spent a lot of money this offseason….that is a joke….let’s take a look at the offseason speonding so far:
Mets: 37 million (K-Rod)
Yankees: 250 million (Sabathia, Burnett)
And yet the Yankees are STILL going hard for Manny, Teixeira, Lowe, etc.- they may very well get 2 of them. And so the Mets have spent 1/7 of what the Yankees have spent this offseason, and they are now shopping on the discount rack, and the Yankees are still going after all the big fish even though they spend 1/4 billion…That’s typical Mets/Yankees. The Yankees want to win it all costs, while the Mets “would kind of like to win,” but making a buck is the most important thing. I just can’t take this anymore, sell the team.
mistermet, I understand the sentiment, but you forgot Putz’s contract to the $37MM and comparing it to what the Yankess are doing (what the Yankees doing is abnormally extreme) is sort of unfair.
I also think this posturing is so that the Mets don’t get into a bidding war against themselves for guys who they may target.
Why always posturing? Always being afraid of losing out is a huge negative.
Sell the team. Great thinking. Because besides the Yankees so many teams spend like that. So you really think that by selling the team you’d get new owners who would spend any amount of money? I hate to tell you, but it could be worse.
how can you say the yankees are still going hard for manny, tex, and lowe?? They havent even made tex an offer yet, and he’s expected to decide in the very near future, they havent really mentioned manny at all, and they are most likely not involved on lowe at all…if they do NOT get pettite back (and I think they will) the next guy they would probably go after would be sheets…
The Yankees spent $250 million? Where? Sure they agreed to two contracts worth upwards of that much but the only spending they did were signing bonuses, which couldn’t have amounted to much more than a few million.
Wait didn’t the Yankees trim like $80 million from their payroll from 2008 (Giambi 23, Abreu 16, Pettite 16, Mussina 11, Pavano 11), not including Pudge and his 12 million salary or Farnsworth and his 6 million salary and have “only” added back CC and AJ (40)?
win at all costs*
Teixeira is the best player out there, regardless of position. When Piazza was available, we got him and then worried about who would play where. Wilpon should show some balls, bring Tex here for 8/190, then Omar can deal Delgado to the Angels.
So when we agree to spend the rest of our budget on Tex who is gonna fill our SP spots? We can’t afford to pay him $25 million or so and then pay Lowe or Perez $12-15 million as well.
You forget, Teixeira is also a SP.
If you trade Delgado you have 12 million more.
Piazza was a better player compared to his position than Teixeira is.
Like I said in a prior post….. Teixeira is not a true super start, he is the Beltran of first base. Yes, that mean very solid across all aspects of the position and at offense, but he does not have that mega offense of players like AROD, Manny and Guerrero who warrant mega contracts.
Sovereign Ronnie,
Are you kidding me? You’re kidding, right? You want me to add Putz’s 4 million before I compare the NYY and Mets spending this offseason? Ok, here you go..here are the updated figures:
NYM: 41 million
NYY: 250 million
Numbers still look a little lopsided to me!!!!!
They had like 80 million coming off the books, but meh to a point I agree, the mets should have more money to spend than the front office seems willing to spend.
Why would the Mets spend 250MM this offseason, or in any offseason for that matter? Why would any team spend that much money in a single offseason? Comparing any team to the Yankees has obvious pitfalls.
As someone else already mentioned, Yankees had a ton of money coming off the books. I think the majority of Mets fans (or at least the rational Mets fans) realize that spending 250MM would be absurd. But I guess you only see the $$$, and think that’ll lead to a championship, right?
The Yankees did NOT cut a $161 million dollar check for Sabathia or a $85 million check for Burnett. Why does everyone even say they spent $250 million? They didn’t.
…the Yankees handed out a guaranteed contract worth the amount. I never said they’re handing it all out this season. But the money was certainly spent.
Do you think that Bonds will continued to be black-balled this year by teams or do you think he will get signed.
Clearly, he wants to play.
I am not suggesting the Mets would be interested, but clearly his bat would make a difference.
if for some reason the black balling was lifted from him, i think he is definitely a dh at this point…i was surprised last year that no al team grabbed him, actually…but thats the only thing is see happening with him if anything…an al team in SERIOUS need of a dh
we are going to wind up getting lowe OR ollie, then someone to compete for #5 spot…we are going to get a utility infielder, and perhaps one more arm in the pen…I don’t think we are going to upgrade in lf or 2nd base, or catcher…I think that’s realistically what is going to happen.
Just being realistic, but I think manny is a pipe dream, and tex is an even bigger pipe dream, as well as getting a lowe AND an ollie…
The Mets should just pay for tex so that they can get to starting pitching faster you know tell boras we’ll pay for Tex if you dont drag out ollie and/or lowe and let us just do it all at once.
Uhh…what? Break the bank on Tex just to sign Lowe/Ollie quicker? How does that make any sense?
Santana
Lowe
Pelf
Maine
Perez
Reyes
Church
Wright
Delgado
Beltran
Tatis/Murphy
Castillo/Wiggy
Schneider/Fatso
K-Rod
Putz
Chad Cordero
Green
Robertson
Feliciano
Parnell
Saito
Get it done Omar
omar WILL sign another sp. BUT without manny (or tex as a fallback), it WILL be another second place finish. humps like burrell, dunn, abreau will do nothing to makke a difference (and make beltran a better hitter). manny is THE answer….and worth every penny. wilpons will make all of it and MORE back. you will believe me in Sept 2009.
I don’t know if there’s any truth to this but I just read the mets are waiting on Lowe. Does anyone have any other information on this?
Met Fans,
Buster’s article on ESPN/MLB is a decent read. He has an interesting twist on how the market will react once Tex signs. He seems to think that the Dodgers will adjust their offer to Manny, in a downward shift. He said the market is probably going to be about 18/yr, not the 20/25 he was originally asking for.
Buster states that the Mets are in prime position to pick up anyone they want, with respect to pitching.
At this rate, why wouldn’t the Mets sign Manny.
Also to me just adding Lowe and Dunn/Burrel instantly makes this team much better.
And as far as perez his numbers vs the Braves and Phils are nice but not when he’s going to pitch to an 8+ ERA to everyone else. Winning the season series against those two teams got us absolutely nothing last year. If you want a lefty to neutralize the Phillies there’s plenty of cheaper just as effective options, and I bet some of them can even pitch to a sub 7 ERA outside of the division.
I dont care what Dunn’s OPS or OBS or HR or RBI total is when we need a clutch hit from Adam Dunn in a win or go home spot he doesnt hit the ball.
We need a “buck stops here” type player not an “if the balls in the strike zone i’ll swing as hard as I can and try to hit a HR, if not I’ll walk and let Fernando Tatis or Luis Castillo drive me in”.
Which is why you’re not an mlb gm, this is just foolish thinking. Why don’t we compare the runs scored and rbis of Dunn, who hit .208 with RISP & 2 outs in 53 at bats and Jeter, everyones favorite mr clutch who hit .328 in the same situation. In his 53 at bats in that situation Dunn batted 26 runners in. In Jeter’s 61 at bats in that situation he also batted 26 runners in. So despite having fewer attempts in those situations, and batting .120 points lower, Dunn still managed to bat the same number of guys in.
And I imagine if you looked at it in from a much deeper statistical analysis point instead of using stats like rbi’s Dunn created way more runs in those situations than Jeter. The difference in their averages is that in those situations when Dunn walked Jeter hit a bunch of singles, and despite Dunn hitting .120 points lower he mayed way way fewer outs, which is kind of important when you’re talking about 2 out situations.
Shhh logic.
Gina for GM.
Pitching Pitching and more Pitching will bring us where we need to be Then if we have money left over and Many is Still out there Sign him For no more than 3 years or its not worth it
that works for most of the season but when Wright and Reyes can’t produce when it matters and your bottom half of the lineup consists of Murphy/Tatis, Castillo, Schneider/Castro its tough to win the big games.
We need someone other than Reyes, Wright, Beltran and Delgado in the lineup.
Manny is really the only choice but hes not going to be here so fill the spots with Wigginton and Eckstein.
Don’t sign Wolf or Garland. Spending 10 mil a year for them is a horrible investment. Whoever makes the team out of Figueroa/Niese/whoever gets the 5th spot and Lowe replaces Perez as the #2.
Eckenstien was healthy and his numbers were as bad as Castillo. Not to mention the lineup should be
Reyes, Murphy/Church, Wright, Delgado, Beltran, Murphy/Church, Schnieder/Castro, Castillo/Backup.
You would not have a bottom of the order with Church, Murphy, Schnieder Castillo
There was talk out there that Boras is trying to package Veritak with Tex. Maybe that is why the Sox walked away for now. If the Mets wanted to upgrade the catching position, and Omar says people have called him about Schneider, why not call Boras and say “Let’s talk Lowe and Veritak on discounted terms.” and then move Schneider for a relief pitcher, then sign Redding.
Yeah Schneider is garbage. In my opinion, you have to upgrade 2 or 3 of LF, C, 2B, RF. I’m down on Church too- and he hates it here.
your posts are garbage.
I’ll take Varitek. Even though he can’t hit at all, he has balls- something very few if any of the current Mets have.
The knowledge and comments of some poster here amaze me:
John Garland has had 7 straight seasons with double digit wins…2 times he has won 18 games! His ERA is higher in the AL because of the DH and more powerful rosters. He is 30 years old. Never misses a turn in the rotation (see never injured) and consistently logs 190-200 innings 7 STRAIGHT YEARS!!!!!!!!. So we know Garland can compete and give the Mets 190 plus innings which is WHAT WE SO DESPERATELY NEED! INNINGS PITCHED SO WE DON’T BLOW OUT THE BULLPEN LIKE 2007 AND 2008!
In comparision, AJ “I am way-overrated” Burnett who everyone wanted, has had 1 and only 1 year with 18 wins…his best year before that, 12 wins…He posted 190 plus innings 3, count them 3 times in 10 years! His era last year was 4.07! Nice 85 million investment YAnkees, Choke on it
Garland’s ERA is 4.90 and that is with a very good bullpen
He has wins because he’s been on great teams. And his ERA might go down but so would his innings pitched since he’d have to be pinch hit for.
I don’t recall too many people on this site wanting Burnett…
I bet if Tex re-signs with the Angels, Omar could swoop in and sign Brian Fuentes. The Cards dropped out of the bidding and the Angles will be out if the pay Tex.
Oleosmirf,
What have I said that makes my posts garbage? Please explain. Please explain what I’ve said that you disagree with- that goes for everybody.
Even if you disagree with what I say, I definitely don’t think you can call my posts garbage- they are usually fairly well written and thought out.
you want the Mets to spend money (they don’t have) like the Yankees do.
The Yankees have the revenue to overpay for every single player they want. The Yankees have a full stadium every game. They sell more merchandise than all the teams combined. They have a winning tradition that dates back to the early 1900s
The Mets are a losing organization that has only been to the playoffs 7 times in their history. So expecting the Mets to compete the Yankees is complete garbage
This isn’t true either, the Mets have plenty of money to spend, we bring in by far the second amount of money in the league when you factor in everything, we just spend less. Plus we have the 20 million from Citi coming that they don’t seem to be interested in spending. Really if you’re just talking about staying under the luxury tax we should have like 30+ million left over to spend I believe.
“Really if you’re just talking about staying under the luxury tax we should have like 30+ million left over to spend I believe.”
I think most rational fans hold that belief – the Mets have in the past, and should in the future, spend up to the luxury tax threshold. New stadium, TV network, blah blah blah, they should be able to support a payroll up to that amount.
BTW, I am in agreement with you, and with the exception of a few, who all the regular people on this site know, the posting isn’t garbage. It’s peoples opinions and ideas. After all, basically, this is one big brainstorming session.
i second that
he comes on here everyday and posts the same garbage.
Yankees spend 250 million why don’t we.
and the Wilpons are cheap and dont want to win
its simple. we dont have 250 million to spend
and how are the wilpons cheap if the Mets are top 5 in the MLB in payroll.
Because we bring in way more money than some of our big market counter parts with comparable payrolls.
yeah but being down on church is just stupid…it was fatcessa who said he didnt want to be here and he was proven to be prevaricating as usual…plus church carried us for the beginning of last year…plus his fielding is always overlooked…yes…i like church a lot…
Count me in the Pedro for #5 group, 110%!
As for the #2, either Lowe or Perez—Lowe has the history on his side, Ollie the future. Lefties always see to take longer to reach their prime, and IMO Ollie’s best years are ahead of him.
If no Pedro for #5, though, why not Stokes? He had a fine year at AAA in ‘08 as a SP, and with all the new pen additions (including 2 Rule 5 guys who can’t be farmed out) he can be spared.
As for MIF, I’d shoot for Eckstein over Cora, but he may only sign somewhere where he’d get a starting job.
I just think that the Mets payroll ($less than $130 million right now) is not representative of the soaring revenue streams that Fred is bringing in. And I think the Mets should have a payroll that’s closer to the NYY than it is to the Atlanta Braves. Ante up, Freddie- time to swim in the pond with the big boys. With the new stadium, burgeoning TV network,and 20 million in naming rights- the Mets are the 2nd richest team in MLB, and should start acting like it, especially if they are raising ticket prices through the roof. If I am paying more as a fan, I expect the team to spend more on payroll. Payroll should be up around 160-170 million, not 130-140 million.
well its December lets see what the payroll is in March.
also just b/c you have the money doesnt mean you have to spend it carelessly.
Sure the Mets have 70 mil to give to Oliver Perez but he’s done nothing in his career (besides that fluke year in Pitt) to warrant such a contract.
What do you think the Mets’ payroll should be at, given these “soaring revenues”?
About 8 million under the luxury tax to allow for injuries.
I vote for Lowe over Perez, not only cause he is more consistent/stable, but also because I think you need to change the mix as much as you can, coming off 3 straight collapses (yes ‘06 was a collapse). You’re already bringing back the exact same offense, same manager (bad choice, in my opinion), and I don’t want to bring back the exact same rotation as well, off a collapse. Gotta change the mix, and insert interchangeable parts wherever possible.
Correct me if I am wrong, and I may be, but don’t the Mets get some type of luxury tax relief this year because of the new stadium? If that is the case, then this winter would be the time to spend a few extra dollars. Next year Wagner and Delgado come off, and you know Putz will go elsewhere to be a closer again, so we could possibly get the payroll back down to where Fred wants it.
Teams are allowed to deduct what they spend on new stadiums from their revenues, essentially helping them get under the luxury tax threshold. This basically gives an incentive to teams to spend money on a stadium rather than give it up to the other teams via luxury taxes.
I’m not sure how the numbers play out or how it affects the Mets though. Good point to bring it up.
Fred just wants to save a buck- winning is, (and always has been) secondary. It doesn’t work that way in Yankeeland.
You’ve got some balls saying a man who just lost $300 million and is still supporting a baseball team with a $130 million or so payroll is “trying to save a buck”. You really have no concept of how money works do you? In your world a team just blindly throws money at people without any consideration because they have some kind of unlimited budget or something. You want a penny pincher? Jeff Loria is a penny pincher. He’ll cut a guy making $3 million a year just so he can fill in someone making the league minimum regardless of how good they are.
He’s not spending his own buck, we’re asking him to reinvest the revenue the Mets bring in back into the team instead of lining his pockets. with the 20 million we had coming off the books, after you factor in raises, plus the 20 million from Citi we should have way more money left to spend than we seem to be willing to spend. Nevermind the fact we bring in enough revenue that they should be able to afford a payroll increase of like 10-15% over what it was last year anyway and still be making a huge profit.
just because you have the money to spend doesnt mean you still dont spend it wisely.
why pay Wolf 10 mil when Niese is here. Is Randy Wolf 9 mil dollars better than Niese???
why pay Castillo to leave town when you can let him stay for the same cost and see if he can produce again???
besides an addtional LHRP, the bullpen has been finished.
The mets have a hole at 2B, LF and the #2 SP.
the demand for the players is only going down so why should Omar be so quick to spend. Sure Omar could probably sign Lowe to a 4 year 65 mil dollar deal today, but why pay that when he can get him for 3 years 45 in a few weeks???
Did I say they should spend it foolishly? No I said they shouldn’t be too cheap to spend it wisely. Spending on Lowe makes sense, at least making an offer/showing some interest in Tex would make sense. Looking into guys like Riveria, Grudz, Lopez makes sense.
the problem with wilpon is that sometimes he spends, and other times he is far too gun-shy. either go for it or don’t. if they end up with burrell and redding instead of manny and ollie/lowe, you’ll know what fred is thinking. meanwhile, maybe he should spend as much time investigating his personal investments. the $300M he lost could have netted us Tex and Lowe easily
Financially we can’t afford Manny and Lowe/Perez. It’s just not possible. We’ve probably got maybe $15-20 million left to spend and that’s gonna land one or the other and right now starting pitching is probably going to be it.
$15-$20mil won’t even put our payroll at last yrs level. We are currently around $22mil under last yrs payroll. We should be above it when all is said and done, but i doubt it.
Do you know exactly how much money we’ve spent? Also are you factoring in raises?
Prior to FRod and Putz, the Mets payroll was ~$102mil. About $34.8mil under last seasons payroll. FRod I believe is getting 8.5 in 09, while Putz gets around $5. So, they are about $21.3mil under last yrs payroll.
From 06 to 07, Mets payroll increased $17mil. From 07 to 08, Mets payroll about $20mil.
So yeah just based on those numbers without factoring in the 20 million from Citi, or an expected increase in payroll we should have 20 million to spend. Once you factor those things in we should have like 30-40 million to spend.
Also I agree with this, why spend so much on the 8th and 9th innings, if you’re going to be to cheap to go after the rest of the guys who would really put this team over the edge.
The $300 million that was lost did not and will not affect the baseball operations or the payroll, etc. The Mets said that, so I have to take them at their word.
Of course they’ll probably do the old “everything’s ok” when in reality it’s not as fine as they might lead you to believe. And try to reply inside of the actual conversation. It’s confusing.
So I’m not shedding a tear
Sheets: 6.39 IP per start 2.19 ER per start
Lowe: 6.21 IP per start 2.24 ER per start
Perez: 5.71 IP per start, 2.68 ER per start
Garland: 5.78 IP per start, 3.34 ER per start
Wolf: 5.77 IP per start 2.76 ER per start
Ben Sheets gave up fewer runs in more innings than any of the other options. (injury is a concern)
Wolf had a suprsingly solid year but he hasnt had this type of season since 2003 (08 possible fluke)
Lowe similar to Sheets but that was Lowe’s best season and Sheets will always pitch at that level (08 possible fluke)
Garland had the worst numbers of the bunch but would be lower in the NL
Perez fewer innings but 3rd lowest ER totals. (very inconsistant)
Sheets is clearly the best pitcher but has the 2nd largest risk (Perez being the first)\
While I feel Sheets is the guy to sign, Omar is reluctant b/c of that risk making Lowe easily the next best option.
Perez probably has the lower ER totals because he pitches fewer innings. That’s why ERA is calculated per 9 innings. Because a guy who gives up 2 runs in 4 innings isn’t better than a guy who gives up 3 in 8 innings.
yes i know that but I care about how many ER they ACTUALLY give up not how much they MIGHT give up if they went the distance every start.
Lowe and Sheets give up fewer runs per start in more innings per start than Ollie, Garland and Wolf.
The question is how much more money should they get per year because of it.
Oleo that’s pretty faulty. So if Manuel knew that Ollie implodes after 5 innings and pulled him each time and his runs scored per start was 2.1 that makes him better than a guy that goes
5.75 and gives up 3 runs?
That’s bad logic, not to mention that each stat would be based on manager preference and score in the game.
well every stat has its flaw
but then again Ollie is the exception to pretty much every rule as he can look like Santana on some starts and look like he belongs in the little league WS the next…
The Mets have more money to spend…just an FYI, they sold out 62 million dollars in Luxury boxes in 2 days.
My deal with the Mets….spend the money or I won’t go to games or purchase any Mets stuff.
Jeff Coupon NEEDS TO understand that the Yankees (YES Network) became the most valuable team in the world by WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS.
and until they learn how to draft well and manage their prospects properly they will never be a winning franchise.
I believe they are on that road. They still seem to have problems in the draft but our latino prospects are great and what prospect has Omar given up that has actually became a very good player???
A solid point that someone else mentioned is that stadium expenses can be deducted from revenues for the purposes of luxury taxes. I’m not sure how the accounting works (i.e. which years are affected) but if anyone knows that would be helpful …
I don’t know for certain but I think it’s been mentioned that the 20 million we’re getting from citi would be deducted. I don’t know if that’s what they’re talking about or if there’s other money that can be deducted.
i love how far off topic we get in here sometimes.
…the Yankees handed out a guaranteed contract worth the amount. I never said they’re handing it all out this season. But the money was certainly spent.
I think that fans need to be patient. We cannot begin complaining about how much the Mets are NOT spending, especially when there is over 2 months left until spring training. If teams start pulling the trigger on Dunn/Abreu/Manny/Burrell, and Minaya HASN’T done anything…THEN and ONLY THEN should we gripe about the remaining revenue. As of this point, they have gotten us a top-flite closer, AND a top-flite setup man. They did this all while saying that this is what they were going to do. They also said they wouldn’t address offensive needs, until the rotation is set.
So why bicker now? The OFers, Ibanez being the exception, have not been signed. That will be the Phillies only move.
well said
It seems like the fans’ displeasure comes more from the sheer lack of interest in certain players (i.e. Manny and Tex) than from the lack of signings/spending to this point.
I don’t think that’s fair at all because people completely ignore the negotiating process….but I also believe people just love to argue and bicker and play out the hypotheticals.
Yeah my issue is the clear lack of interest. But if we were even negotiating with some of these player we would know. Considering we get an update on us waiting for Lowe every day, we knew about the K-rod offer as soon as it happened and we knew about Omar eating dinner with Ibanez’s agent don’t you think if we had any interest in Manny/Tex/Dunn/Sheets there would have at least been whispers. I mean obviously I guess I should wait until something does or doesn’t happen to b-i-t-c-h but it’s hard not to be a little concerned/irritated when there’s not even evidence of interest.
What teams have clearly shown interest in Manny, Dunn, or Sheets?
Good question. I have heard Texas for Sheets and that’s about it.
I understand, and it is a natural reaction to feel that way. But the way I see it, we keep hearing over and over about Lowe and OP because the Media has nothing else to post about it. At Metsblog, they seem to report all the happenings and occurrences of other newspapers. Which to me, is a wonderful thing. It saves me from having to check on a ridiculous amount of websites.
The majority of the time, most writers are guessing. Some make better guesses than others. Until recently, I was a big Heyman fan. After paying attention to his articles, I get the sense that he regurgitates the same things over and over again. The media is able to play on the same trades or signings, by changing words around, thus creating new ‘buzz.”
You are totally correct in feeling the way you do. But honestly, I did not see us getting Putz, right after we signed K-Rod. Let’s just be patient, and gripe in about two months. That is, if we actually have a real reason to gripe.
in Manny, the angels and dodgers and limited interest from the Yankees, but like I said I think the lack of interest in him isn’t because of cost so much as the Wilpons which I can’t fault them for because obviously they know a lot more about what goes on behind the scenes with a guy like Manny than i do.
As for Dunn the Angels and the Nationals have been linked to him, should they lose out on Tex, and the d-backs. For Sheets the Rangers, Brewers and supposedly the Yankees had interest before they signed Burnett.
exactly we need a LF, 2B a #2 SP and a utility infielder. all other spots can be filled internally.
Our options in order their importance to our team
SP: Sheets, Lowe, Perez,
2B: Hudson, Eckstein, Grudzielanek
LF: Manny, Manny, Manny, Wigginton, Dunn, Abreu, (Burrell and Bradley are not options)
UI: Miles, Aurelia, Uribe, Cora, Easley, Counsell, Bloomquist, Hairston Jr., Cintron (maybe take a risk on Nomar)
and yes i have Wigginton over Dunn b/c Wigginton fills a need, Dunn fills a want.
Take 1 player from each group and thats fine
Hudson is WAY overrated and Grudzy is MUCH better than Eckencrappy. Eckencrappy’s stats were about the same as Castillo even with Castillo injured.
personally I would take Sheets/Lowe, Manny and Miles accept the fact that Castillo is “unmoveable” and let Niese and co. battle for #5 and the final 2 spots in the bullpen up for grabs
Don’t know how that effects the “payroll” but it makes our team much better.
good point, gina…and although it doesnt mean we are NOT interested in any of them, it makes me feel as if we are not…like tex, ok, theres a bunch of teams bidding, and offering large deals, and we are choosing not to be a part of that, but like a manny, who makes so much sense, why isnt there even a whisper?? there are people predicting that we sign burrell, based on the fact that we are looking to add a big right handed bat (even though omar says we arent) yet there hasnt been one little WHISPER about us in regards to manny??
Well I honestly think the issue with Manny is the Wilpons blocking it because of his “attitude”, I have no idea if Manny is a locker room cancer or not but that’s just my take on why we seem to have no issue in him.
yea i believe that is the reason too but Manny would not be a distraction playing for “Los Mets”
as ive said before this clubhouse is perfect for Manny…
I think it’s clear that they don’t think Tex is worth it and don’t want Manny. Seems pretty simple to me. I don’t agree with it but it’s their team.
I think they are affraid if they make a deal on Manny then 2 things will happen that they don’t want.
1)Be out bid and make them look really cheap.
2) Actually get a guy they don’t want.
Another thing to add, a lot of the top players are represented by Boras. He holds the marketplace hostage. GMs are more aware of his tactics, and have realized that his strategy does have a tremendous downside as well. However, no matter what, he will still get his big commission based on who he actually represents.
One more gripe from me, a lot of fans seem to get on Omar for not being able to fill two positions at the same time. I don’t get this, the market has not moved in that manner. Look at the Yankees, with all the wealth in the world, and all they have signed are pitchers.
Boras has more to do with the Mets’ pursuit of FAs. The market is well aware that Tex has to sign first, before he starts to push his other clients out there. I do not like his negotiating tactics for the following reasons: 1) While a big pay day for Tex might be able to net him a higher commission on that transaction, his other clients suffer. As an agent, he has a fiduciary duty to see to the best interests of his clients. Besides Texeira, I think he is actually hurting the rest of clients. If I were Manny, I wouldn’t be too happy with him.
great point
anyone know what the maximum is for agents commision??
i know the NFL is 3% at least it was a few years ago…
no idea, but that guys gotta be LOADED
Dock Ellis who pitched the no hitter on LSD died. I didn’t know he played on the Mets.
Does Willie Collazo get to compete if we’re going to hav figgy and neice in the competition for #5 starter i mean whats the worst that happens he becomes the Jorge Sosa (referring to him in 07 not 08) of ‘09. I have no problem with the mets trading for a pitcher or singing one to a very low 1 year contract and letting Niese, Figgy, Collazo, Parnell, Stokes, and Mistery Pitcher X compete for #5 with the runner up being the long man in the pen we need on Sosa was supposed to be it last year, Sele the year before. We need someone who can stick and spot start and until we traded him i thought it was going to be Heilman. when we put him in for those 3 inning intervals he was decent.
If Figgy and Niese are the only ones competing for the #5 spot it won’t matter anyway.
But yes if we don’t get a real LHRP I expect Collazo and Camacho to get a look.
After Tex signs, the ball will start rolling, and then once Manny and Lowe sign, the dominoes will go very quickly.
Jays are shopping Veron Wells. According to MLBtraderumors they would have to get creative with the trade.
Hmmm
Wells for Castillo? That would be a great answer to RF and slide Church into LF until Fmart is ready.
Mets can’t afford Wells’ contract even if we did lose Castillo.
We are the 3rd richest team in baseball we could afford it
And don’t give me the you can’t have 2 CF line because they run into each other. Wells is not that type of CF.
Wells is basically owed 6/100. Take away Castillo’s 18 million that’s 6/82 or 14 million or so a year.
That’s not impossible. Though, if you did do that trade, you would have a hole a second. Then, we would have to sign a FA like Hudson. Hudson is probably going to get 10 a year. Add the two contracts up, and you would have been able to get Manny.
Why would you need Hudson? Go get Grudzy for 2 million.
I don’t see him as an improvement over Castillo.
How do you not see him as an improvement? He’s much better defensively and much much better offensively.
It doesn’t matter if he is an improvement, really. You would get another OF out of the deal.
And have the “same” 2nd baseman.
What is Well’s contract worth?
I was thinking the same thing TRS86. Then, I looked up Wells’ contract and ruled it out. Based on what I found, I don’t see how they’d match up. Vernon Wells: 09:$1.5M, 10:$12.5M, 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M
Why not if you took Castillo’s 18 million away?
That’s 6/82
13.67 a year.
In fact it’s perfect because it’s cheaper this year when we need the extra money because of Wagne and Murphy.
Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Delgado, Wells, Church, Schnieder, Castillo is not a bad looking lineup at all.
Yeah, Castillo would have to be moved in the deal for it to work. I just don’t know how desperate the Jays are to move him, especially for Castillo coming back their way. There’s a shot, but I’m not too confident. I’d love to have him here though.
I would think we would most likely have to include a prospect like Parnell and a low level pitcher.
did i read that right? do u really think it is possible to trade luis castillo for vernon wells!? are u crazy? do u think every team in the league wakes up every morning and thinks “how can we help the mets today?” no!..if castillo was going to be moved this offseason, he would have been traded in the jj putz deal
I think vernon wells is really overrated. He makes way to much money for the type of numbers he puts up. Even if we could trade castllo straight up for wells I wouldn’t do it. He won’t cost the 14 a year your thinking he’ll cost because of the structure of his contract. I don’t know about you but I don’t want to pay the guy 63 million over the last 3 years of his contract. That is way to much money for a guy who’s basically averaged under 25 home runs and less then 100 rbi’s over the last 4 seasons.
it would be addition by subtraction.
What ever happened to all the talk about “changing the chemistry” of the team? And changing the mix as much as you could? You can’t change Beltran, Wright, Reyes, Santana, or arguably Pelfrey. But in my mind, everyone else was up for grabs, yet no changes have been made. All we did was switch one top 4 closer for another (Wagner/K-Rod), and upgrade one other guy in the bullpen. In early October, all people talked about was changing the mix/finding some gamers, gritty guys, etc…but now the Mets seem to bring back 95% of the same collapsing team with the same manager. I think that’s a mistake- this team will finish 3rd and/or collapse once again.
Stop interupting a good baseaball discussion.
Tell the Jays to throw in Doc Halladay and they have a deal. (That was a joke)
It’s a mystery, it’s like The Mets put a gag order on the every media outlets- all everybody talked about the days and weeks after the collapse was about how the Mets desperately need to “change the mix,” but now all that talk has mysteriously vanished. Strange.
on every media outlet*
make me
At least you are admitting that your discussion is not contributing anything.
The Nats signed Daniel Cabrera, beating out the Mets for his services according to MLB Trade Rumors. Also, supposedly, Adam Dunn’s first choice preference of where to play is for the Cubs.
Daniel Cabrera? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How will we go on?
That’s it. 2009 ain’t happening, guys. See you next year.
Nice find Phil.
Also, for those who recommended Grudzy. I don’t think he is much of an improvement over Castillo. Actually, I think they are extremely similar. So by suggesting to pick up Wells, and then sign Grudzy. I think you are putting yourself in an equal to worse of position. Why? Well, in order to get Wells, you have to trade for him. Obviously, Castillo for Wells won’t cut it. All this for Wells? There are very comparable players in FA that will give you similar output, without surrendering the prospects.
my question is why dont you think he’s that much of an improvement?
Grudz’s stats:
2008
Games: 86 (AB: 331) R:36 Hits: 99 3B:0 HR:3 RBI:24 TB:132 BB:19 SO:41 SB:2 CS:1 OBP.345 SLG.399 AVG.299
Castillo:
Games: 87 AB:298 R:46 Hits:73 RBI:7 3B:1 HR:3 RBI:28 TB:91 BB:50 SO:35 SB:17 CS:2 OBP:.355 SLG.305 AVG.245
Gina, besides batting average, I don’t see how he would be a significant upgrade. One could also argue that his recent knee surgery added to his BA decline. I also like that Castillo walked a heck of a lot more. They have also played in the league the same number of years. All I am saying is, trading for Wells to free up room to bring Grudz in…not worth it.
leave castillo alone, he had one bad season due to injuries,besides that he has been close to .300 hitter his career,plus lets not forget his obp is always over .350. the guy is one of the best bunters and rarely strikes out, stop looking for big stats as for a second baseman, only a few great second basemans are out there in baseball. give him the year, and you will see the little things like solid defense,bunting guys over when we really need him to, or mayb even squeeze plays.the guy isnt the greatest second baseman but give him another year to see if he really is a flop
you say we’ll see solid defense, but thats not what i saw last year
adam dunn’s first choice is the cubs. hope we can sweep in and grab him. mets lost out on cabrera to the nationals. probably offered him chump change
That makese sense, since as a pitcher, he pretty much is a chump!
I suggest Omar should talk to Detroit and see what it would take to possibly get Marcus Thames and we will take on Dontrelle Willis in return. D-Train for our fifth spot could possibly turn into a steal for us. Back in the NL in a new environment with no pressure to save our team may be what he needs to find that talent again. He was once a stud. We also get a solid OF in Thames. Wonder what it would take. I read they were going to release Dontrelle if they couldnt find a taker for him.
The mets are the wilpons business. They want to amke profit. If they keep raising the payroll every year what would be the reason to owning the mets. Im sure he loves them ,but it is def a business and I dont fault him for wanting to make more money. And regardless if the 300 million affected the mets, dont you think Fred wants to attempt to make that money back?
“f they keep raising the payroll every year what would be the reason to owning the mets.”
Question 1: Do you really think it’s that easy to compare the sports industry to other lines of business?
Question 2: Do you think that Wilpon purchased the Mets with the primary goal being to earn a profit?
I think some people are missing the point on Grudz:
first of all, he isn’t castillo (that’s for the “change the culture” crowd, and to appease the booers!)
but mostly, he can hit the ball out of the IF and still make plays on D. And of course he has “grit”
the real point though is clearing the contract. Castillo is a bottleneck. If they get someone like Grudzylanek for 1 year and a couple of million, they can redeploy the money elsewhere.
Not that 6 million is that much in the big picture.
I expect Castillo to be back, and I can live with that as long as he does not hit 2nd (meaning 8th – sorry, TRS, he won’t hit 9th), and he is on a chort leash.
If he is worse than last year, cut him.
although woulnd;t sruprise me to see more DL time again.
Given how bad Castillo and Easley were on D, just let Murphy have the job and take care of the problem that way! Let him work like a dog at learing the position in ST and roll the dice.
Agreed Stickguy.
The whole point of my Gruz/Castillo comparison was to show that adding Wells’ salary, just to be able to send Castillo away, just doesn’t make sense. Especially, if all we are getting at 2B is Grudz.
Please don’t blame Castillo for the collapse. He barely played last season. We didn’t make the playoffs because our bullpen was horrid, and we failed to make key hits. We had NO LF-er, and and oft-injured 5th starter.
Also, if you ask most people, it doesn’t matter whether a ball gets into the outfield, via flyball or on the ground. A hit is a hit.
Stop with the Murphy at 2nd nonsense. I love the kid, but he is not a 2nd basemen. He can barely play LF.
His bat isn’t a left fielder’s bat either. Even if he’s not a second basemen he would have to be historically be defensively to be less valuable there than Castillo.
Also I don’t think the point would swapping Wells and Castillo just to get Grudz. It would be swapping Wells and Castillo to get Vernon Wells.
lets be real nobody with a brain is going to trade vernon wells for luis castillio
What’s everyone’s thoughts on Tim Redding? Upgrade over Pedro? I have a hard time showing a legend the door for a veteran journeyman. I wish Pedro could be healthy and give us innings, but that’s a huge question mark which we probably all know the answer to.
I would have preferred D.Cabrera over Redding. And I would take Pedro over Redding as well. You just don’t know what you are going to get from Redding. In fact, out of all the pitchers mentioned in connection to the Mets, Redding would be last on my list.
all i want to see the mets do is get rid of castillio and i dont care for what…sign grudz or hudson …then please sign jon garland the guys pretty good and hes not gonna cost alot also sign pedro to a 1 year deal for 2 mill so he can compete with niese for the 5th spot
line up:
reyes
hudson
beltran
delgado
wright
chruch
murph
schneider/castro
johan
starters:
johan
big pelf
maine
garland
pedro/niese
not bad. Hudson is not the answer though. Your other suggestions aren’t bad. They are cheap yet solid options. Plus those moves still leave us with enough money to improve other areas of the team.
i agree with u secund but i would rather sign lowe or ollie and then pick up a garland, wolf, or trade for marque
i really think orlando hudson would be great on the mets, listen reyes is our ignitor, but he cant get on base every at bat of every game…odog would be a perfect complement to reyes and would give us the best 1-3 hitters in the game
exactly hudson would be pretty sweet but i can live with grudz at 2nd or even trying to work a deal out for a brian roberts type of player …garland i feel may be the most under rated guy on the market look at his numbers all in the american league and you can compare to them to ollie plus he did great in 05 with the sox in the playoffs
Anyone wanna take bets that King Omar resigns Alou? 1 year, 4.5 million. I’ll bet anyone here.
WE WANT MANNY… WE WANT MANNY… WE WANT MANNY… WE WANT MANNY
Santa. I’ve been a good boy this year. All I want for X-mas is Manny Ramirez to be a Met. Can I also have Lowe on the team too.
P.S. Can u please tell Tex to make his freaking mind up already so that this boredom that has cooled my hot stove and drove me to write this corny message can go away already? Thanks in advance.
lil pelf,
you are indeed wise. manny is the answer for the mets. next stop would be WS. but for so many loser minded fans, it is pearls before swine. they will get what they deserve if omar does not sign manny…again. second or third place. sept 2009 i will be proven right either way :)
Ok so lemme get this straight. We sign Manny with our remaining money and that leaves us none left for Lowe or Perez or anyone else. How exactly is that a guaranteed World Series? And if Manny is really a guaranteed WS surely he would have gotten lots of offers, right?
he’s not a guaranteed world series, he just increases our chances greatly. and that is an understatement. who knows how many offers he’s gotten with boras focused on tex first, but a reason he might not have that many is the economic climate most teams are supposedly in. Certainly all of the top teams who can afford a hall of famer, world series MVP like ramirez minus the red sox will highly consider him, and we should without a doubt be one of them. We CAN afford manny and lowe. Don’t let anyone tell you any different.
Last time I heard we have around $22 mil to play with. Prove it.
This is actually discussed on the first page we should have upwards of 30 million to play with even before you take the 20 million from Citi into account.
Also, I would sign Ollie rather than Lowe. We don’t need to go any older with our players, history shows with the Mets that its a disaster relying on old players in key roles because when they go down you’re hosed.
lol 4get manny and lowe all we need is garland and grudz.hudson!!
grudz or hudson***
i really think we should trade for nady if the yanks get manny…he is the exact player we need right now…right handed, corner OF, can play first, power, somewhat clutch, young…
reyes
murph
wright
delgado
beltran
nady
church
schnieder
that is a solid lineup…u kno u have a good lineup when church is batting 7th
it’s nice to see another team kill their stadium with a loss. thank you cowboys
Well I have to say I like the idea of Vernon Wells but it seems like a long shot that we really cant afford but if they will do it for Castillo ill drive…. Seriously tho what are peoples feelings on adding Perez or Lowe, i want both but thats a dream…. After picking up one of them we send a package that includes Castillo and whatever prospects it takes to sign Jason Marquis, who in the past has been a big game pitcher…. Then sign Hudson, I know he doesnt solve any problems but the big bat isnt coming this offseason….
that would give us OR in a dream:
SS – Reyes ss – Reyes
2nd – Hudson 3rd – Wright
CF – Beltran cf – Beltran
1st – Delgado 1st – Delgado
3rd – Wright rf – Wells
RF – Church lf – church
LF – Murphy 2nd – Murphy
C – Castro ( i hope) c – Casto
P P
The one on the right is a dream that adds a huge right handed power bat to our lineup and allows right to move up into a spot that gives him more at bats with Reyes on base which means RBI machine…. but the one on the left gives us a better pitching staff which looks like this otherwise its the one on the right:
Santana Santana
Lowe/Perez Lowe/Perez
Pelfrey Pelfrey
Maine Maine
Marquis Neise/Parnell
I know Wells makes the lineup awesome but obtaining hudson and marquis and losing Castillo does more for the whole team then just adding Wells….. Either way you look at it Castillo has to go and in my opinion Murphy needs to play this year because it looks like the Mets have him in long term plans somewhere like first base…. Any opinions?????
any sentence regarding an upgrade for the mets starts with either adding lowe or retaining ollie or ridding of cancer-castillo
where did all this vernon wells talk come from? i’m not comfortable trading the farm for something we can find for cheaper or through FA…plus i think wells is a bit overrated
i think we would be good if the team looked like this in 09
reyes
hudson
wright
delgado
beltran
tatis
church (switch the 2 and insert murph if its a RHP)
castro (schieder)
santana
big pelf
lowe
maine
wolf
(or would it be better to retain ollie and get garland?) either way we have to sign at least 2 more LHP to the roster
what do you think?
IF THE METS SIGN FREDDY GARCIA, THEY WILL BE SORRY! I AM LUKE WARM ON DEREK LOWE SEE: P MARTINEZ, EL DUKIE AND M ALOU. IF THEY SIGN LOWE AND HE BOMBS, HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE TO START THE CHANTS OF FIRE OMAR. JUST RESIGN OLLIE AND EITHER WOLF OR REDDING.