Last night, according to multiple reports, the Mets offered Derek Lowe a three-year, $36 million contract.
“Lowe recently told a friend that the Red 
Sox have never showed serious interest in him,” explains John Harper in the Daily News, who believes, ‘more and more,’ it is only a matter of time before Lowe signs with the Mets.
According to ‘the friend,’ the Mets and Lowe exchanged contract proposals before Christmas, like the Boston Globe suggested last week.
Harper’s right, it is feeling inevitable – in the same way the Johan Santana Trade was starting to feel inevitable one year ago.
Similar to the Santana situation from last year, the competition is minimal, and the marriage makes sense – keeping Lowe in the National League, while returning him to the East Coast on a team that is built to win now.
In the end, I do not believe the Mets intend to guarantee a fourth year to the deal, and would love to keep the price below $15 million per season, which, if they pull it off, will be impressive, considering only a month ago he was seeking a ‘Zito-like Deal,’ according to Ken Rosenthal at FoxSports.com.
In case you’re thinking it…
In the New York Post, Mike Puma writes, “A Mets official termed it unlikely that the team would sign more than one starter from the group that includes Lowe, Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf.”
{ 431 comments }
so if we sign lowe that means we have to see tim redding or niese? thats depressing.
I agree, im personally not in the camp of wild and reckless yankee spending, but id really like someone notable to hold down that 5th spot.
id like to see neise get the nod, but he needs some more time to develop. i can understand not signing OP or wolf for a 3yr deal as that will effectively block neise or relegate him to the eventual need for a 6th starter. the mets should pursue marquis as he will give adequate production from the 5 spot and only be around for 1 year (which is the main proponent in trading for him)
So…the Mets shouldn’t sign Lowe? I’m not sure what you’re getting at, but I’m pretty sure that I disagree with it.
I’m with you prismo.. leave it this blog to somehow spin signing a player (that most everybody on here wants) into a bad thing
How’d you get that idea?
Even if we got Lowe at 3/40 with an option, how can we not go after Ollie as well. Lowes price would have dropped to 13 mil a year, Ollie will be had by someone for something like 3/30, how can the Mets just dismiss that?
I mean 70 million for 2 guys that have potential to perform like aces, this is a no brainer. The Yankees just spent 82.5 million on one guy who has made 30 starts twice in his career.
Like most on this site I eat sleep and breathe Mets but enough is enough Wilpons need to pay up and get us the best players out there. Don’t drink the kool-aid this is a NY market with astronomical revenue streams. The money is there but the Wilpons will only seem to do enough just to get you excited right around the same time its time to re-new out ticket plans. Its been 22 years since a championship play to win now. I am sick of all the cliché’s get it done already or sell this freaking team.
What! !
“Its been 22 years since a championship play to win now. I am sick of all the cliché’s get it done already or sell this freaking team”.
Wake Up!
This club has been spending money to win since FW owns the club.
To bad that it did not work out because of the GM. But the owner did try every year.
How about you finding a new club?
With fans like you no wonder its been so long. Stop behaving like a 2nd cla ss citizen in NY.
its all posturing, they arent going to come out and say sure we will sign ollie, there is no market for him. Why give boras time to use the mets to create one.
Sign lowe then move on, and if the price is right on both i find it hard to believe that they wont sign ollie and lowe.
Did anyone watch that video on Newsday? It Says Matt Merrone Reporting…lol
I am all for the Mets signing Lowe and hopefully somehow they HAVE to find a taker for Castillo or just cut him already. ODogg is waiting patiently..
He is an editor at the Daily News. I have heard this before, as well, and gave it a double take too.
That is crazy. What are the odds?
Daily News I meant…
Let’s get Lowe signed, forget about Perez (get the picks), and sign Wolf to a short and low deal. Let’s get Manny!
I’d rather Perez than Manny
What people fail to understand about signing Manny is that the first time he strikes out it would be all over.
He would be like Heilman, A-Rod, T.O. and Marbury all rolled into one.
It would be the shortest honeymoon in sports.
The Man Child is too fragile for New York!
Forget Manny Ramirez:
Sign Lowe AND Ollie
Sign Aaron Miles and Marcus Thames
Sign Denys Reyes
Best Pitching Staff in Baseball and a pretty awesome lineup with 2 platoons in Left and Right if Church struggles against lefties. Miles as insurance “in case” Castillo is terrible
what evidence is there that manny is too fragile to play in ny? he’s been a winner everywhere he’s gone. 5 straight years in cleveland to the playoffs including a world series appearence, 2 championships in boston (2nd biggest market in baseball), and carried the dodgers to the playoffs on his back. he’s consistently won and performed in the clutch, which is more than you can say about just about any met position player in the last 2 years. i guess making the playoffs isn’t that big of a deal to you…
I would be fine if we don’t sign manny, if we go for Ben Sheets.
Ben sheets or manny. Do it, and I’m pre-ordering my Sports illustrated sports package.
didn’t
This has been my dream scenario for a while now. Sign Sheets and Lowe.
Santana
Sheets
Lowe
Pelfrey
Maine/Niese
That’s the best rotation in the bigs.
And if we make the postseason, that’s a lethal short series rotation.
As Borat would say, and I agree, ” Is Niiiiice “
no doubt! I still don’t understand why we hear so little about sheets…
I would *love* to see the Mets sign Sheets on a 2 year deal with an option for a 3rd. He pitched 31 games last year with an ERA near 3. Even if he only made 25 starts this year, and Niese had to start 5-10 games, the Mets would have an unbelievable rotation.
I don’t think they’ll do it though. It’s fun to dream..
why does everyone want Sheets over Ollie? The Mets will need a lefty pitcher and he doesnt come with the injury risk. Ollie 3/30 is a heck of a lot better than Sheets 2/28
Why does everyone want Sheets over Ollie? Um… just a guess here… ability? Talent?
what he said ^
every year of his career he has had injury problems, including last season though it wasnt as bad as years past.
Ollie has plenty of talent and has never been hurt, AND he is left handed, as of now the mets have 1 left handed starter for sure, remember those guys that just won the world series? Utley Howard and now Ibanez. Im pretty sure Ollie had a .36 ERA against them this year
I agree Sheets is an injury risk and for that reason I don’t necessarily want him more than Ollie, but you asked why people do, and the fact of the matter is that Sheets when healthy is a superior pitcher to Ollie.
25 starts by sheets + 7 starts of Pitcher X > 32 OP starts. Ollie can be very good, but more often, he isn’t. Sheets, when he pitches, is the ace we all wish Ollie had turned out to be. I think we could use a lefty, too, but if it’s a choice between 2/sheets and 3/Ollie, I go with the better pitcher.
We are going to have to agree to disagree then, to me Ollie’s dominance against the phils and Braves, combined with the fact that he is 26, left handed, and less injury prone makes him a better option for not only next year but going forward
Get Lowe and Sheets Maine is still a question he did just have surgery and is Pelf the real deal ? That way when Sheets goes down or if Maine is not ready then we can put Neise in those spots otherwise who else could
prismo and bigpelfcyyoung
im not saying not to sign lowe. im saying its depressing that signing him means we cant afford wolf for the 5th spot. leave it to this blog to jump to the wrong conclusion….
twofours, I agree. I dont know how they couldve read that wrong.
unlikely does not mean impossible. Lot’s of posturing, smoke blowing, etc. going on. basically it creates leverage to present options.
I would guess that if they lock in Lowe at a reasonable rate (say 3/40), that Omar will still look for a “real” SP option for the 5th hole.
Wolf for 1-2 years? Great. Sheets for a 1-2 year deal? Even better.
Redding? Yuck, but 1 year cheap? no biggie, as he would just be ST competition fodder.
also wouldn’t be surprised to see someone like a garcia/colon make-good signing. If they reclaim their lost glory, great. If not, gone.
having 4 solid guys locked into the rotation by 1/1 (if Lowe signs) is fine, as long as there is plenty of options in ST fighting for the last spot. And no, I doubt Neise will just be handing a spot.
If Maine is healthy (now that he had his shoulder issue fixed), Lowe effectively replaces Ollie, and how hard can it be to upgrade over the circus that was the 5th rotation spot all year?
I want Sheets. That would be a fantastic “5th starter” I know he is a top rotation guy, but if they have 4 spots locked in, that is effectively the hole he would be filling.
And anyone else in the rotation (maine, Pelfrey, lowe) would certainly be about the best 5th starter in the NL.
I would not be shocked if we saw them bring in Garcia since Minaya has shown interest in him in the past
I have been saying that Lowe to the Mets was a done deal, once the WS ended. He has told many friends that it was going to happen, just needed to iron out annual salary.
Funny, because I heard from a friend of his after the WS, that there was no way he’d come to NY (Yankees or Mets). That the only east coast team he would go to was beack to Boston. At this point, I think he has no choice, but to become a Met. It just worries me that if he starts off slow, and is booed, that he’ll quickly become an unhappy camper.
The funny thing is, if the Mets sign Lowe, then Oliver Perez is going to be left out in the cold. There is no team left that will offer him anything substantial. He would have been better off accepting Omar’s offer before going to free agency.
If Ollie gets hung out to dry, who would be surprised to see the Yanks swoop in to snag him at a “bargain” price?
I’d be very surprised. The Yanks have no interest in Andy Petit, and thet have Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves, and Geiss rounding out the 5-8 spots. Hughes should be better than Perez, and there is no reason to sign a 6th starter to Perez money.
Boras got owned here.
I think if Omar does sign Lowe for $40mil total or less, he HAS to go after a second, experienced, HEALTHY pitcher. No one here can say for sure that Maine will be the ‘07 version when he reports to ST. The Mets went into ST ‘08 with visions of Ollie and Maine bettering their 15 Wins from the prior year…
How’d that work out?
Omar does not have to spend what the yanks spend, but the money he spent on the ‘pen, shouldn’t go to waste.
Santana
Lowe
Pelfrey
Maine
Niese
On paper this looks fine, but if Niese wets the bed ala Pelfrey ‘07; if Maine’s shoulder isn’t better; or/and if Pelfrey regresses…we’re staring at 4th place
we had 89 wins last season and that was with a rotation that ended out the season as Santana, Ollie, Pelfrey, Pedro, Knight/Niese
dont forget nick evans as our #5 hitter, ramon martinez as our 2B, and a makeshift bullpen.
If Lowe is here, I see no reason why this team can’t win 90 games even if Pelfrey regresses
Although I think 4 years is too long for a pitcher his age, if we keep it at around 4 year 45-50 we probably have a bargain with what quality pitchers are making now-a-days.
lowe would be good. the final WS piece is MANNY. omar has the perfect storm for signing manny…..wilpons need to wise up.
Then again, wasn’t signing Zito inevitable? Of course we lucked out by not signing him, but I’m not going to be real comfortable until the ink is dry on the contract.
By the way, fangraphs.com has a great post on the Mets rotation if they sign Lowe. Long and short is that it would seriously position the Mets as the frontrunner, providing them with arguably the best or second best staff in the league. It also suggests that giving the Niese a shot wouldn’t be such a bad idea, especially considering the strength of the rest of the rotation. It’s worth checking out.
I guess that fangraphs thing is interesting? I couldn’t find what FIP or WAR meant, or where they’re getting these numbers though. I’d also be curious to see the rotation with Lowe + Sheets.
Fangraphs is a little technical,even for me. WAR is Win Above Replacement, and essentially is just a measure of how many more wins a player adds to your team over a middling replacement player. So Lowe would be valued at almost four more wins than your average schlub, which may not sound like, but is significant. And at approximately $5 million per WAR, he’d be a good bargain, at least in the first year of his contract, though with declining value over time.
I forget what FIP is exactly, but it’s basically just another advanced metric for measuring pitchers.
personally i think Niese needs some time in AAA before he is ready to be a full member of the rotation.
A guy like Redding is perfectly fine as a #5 knowing that Niese can fill in later in the year.
Redding won 12 games and pitched to an ERA under 5 last season for an awful Nationals team. Thats good enough for the 5th starter…
Redding was also very good until the latter part of the season where he appeared to just wear down.
If he pitches like he did from April to August and then let Niese take over if Redding wears down again than that is perfectly fine with me…
Consider the park effect in Washington when looking at Redding’s numbers.
And also remember that he has never pitched an entire good season.
Redding stinks.
no way sheets slots in as a 2 with the risk
and why all of a sudden do most of you have main competing with neise? is he the new heilman now?
3 years 36 million is a bargain for a player of Lowe’s caliber and while I dont expect him to sign at that, 3 years 42 million would be a great signing
and then go out and sign Manny and whoever the Mets choose to fill the remaining holes is fine by me…
As-suming that Maine is ready to go by opening day (and that seems to have been the expectation since he had the procedure), and (of course) they sign Lowe, than the top 4 is as solid as any in the league.
Best of all, it should log pelnty of innings. I am also thinking Maine will go a bit deeper if he doesn’t have the shoulder issue holding him back. He might also learn something from the new old man!
So, if those 4 are all solid, then it makes sense to try and blend in a young guy. But if, and only if, they look ready (and earn the job in ST).
And there needs to be a solid fall back in place (such as a rehabbed guy in AAA rounding back into shape).
What the heck. While I certainly prefer Sheets, or even Wolf, if the option is a crap guy like Redding, I would rather let Garcia and Neise fight it out!
if you look at Redding he pitched fairly well up until the all-star break (7-3 with a 3.85 ERA) for the Nationals.
If he can do that in the early part of the year and IF he regresses again then Niese gets called up to finish out the year…
One of the more prescient things Omar has said during his GM tenure was that in today’s game you don’t just build a 5-man rotation for the season, but rather you really have to have 7 or 8 guys on your depth chart.
Niese looked very raw in his appearances last year. I think in his 1st start against the Brewers he was scared %$^%less but then had a good game against the Braves. If the Mets sign Lowe and no other proven major league pitcher then of course Niese gets his trial by fire.
However, I’m wondering what happens if the Mets ink both Lowe and Perez. They’ll both get at least 3 or 4 deals and unless injury or fatigue becomes a factor I don’t see anything but security in the rotation for a 5-some of Johan/Lowe/Pelfrey/Maine/Perez. Obviously this is not a bad thing to have, but that rotation would remain relatively intact for the next few seasons so where would that put Niese in terms of the depth chart?
i dont want Perez on this team. He blew a 5-1 lead in possibly the most important game of the year and in the last game of the year he went 5.1 IP and gave up 2 R when we knew the bullpen couldnt handle it.
I cant reason giving him 10-12 million year after a 10 Win season and a 4.22 ERA in a contract year.
First, I can’t see Ollie too if they get Lowe. Wolf or Sheets for shorter term? Yup. So IMO if they ink Lowe, Ollie turns into 2 picks.
But, in your scenerio, if the same rotation can stay intact for the entire year (or 2 or 3!), and the worst problem the Mets have is too many SP prospects piling up, then they will be in great shape!
For a young guy like Neise, he would get fill in duty (Double headers, DL fill in, Spet. call up) while perfecting his stuff in AAA.
Then, if they really don’t have room in the rotation, he can hit the pen, or be a solid trade chip.
More likely though, Omar goes ST (1-2 yers max) for anyone signed to be (or compete for) the 5th SP slot.
The hope though is they sign a guy for the 1-2 years, but they pitch way better than a #5 (like Sheets).
If it is a Redding type (place holder?) it had better be for only 1 year!
Perez is not worth the 2 picks they’d give up to sign him. If you sign K-Rod and Lowe, it’s better to get the picks back by letting Perez go than to sign him. Perez projects as a meh 4.60 FIP pitcher.
If Perez is cheap I think we have to go for him, for nothing else than to face the Phillies, especially now that they have another lefty bat in Ibanez. That’s the reason that I might even prefer Perez to Lowe.
sure in his 3 starts a year against the phillies he might pitch well but what about the other 30 starts where he pitches to a 5.00 ERA
OK, from what I can gather there’s interest in moving Luis Castillo. Let’s work some Kherub magic ~ BOOM!!, 2 Problems solved – Then SIGN MANNY!!
CARDINALS GET – Luis Castillo, Carlos Muniz
CARDINALS GIVE – Adam Kennedy
TORONTO GETS – Adam Kennedy, Nick Evans
TORONTO GIVES – Scott Downs
METS GET – Scott Downs
METS GIVE – Luis Castillo, Nick Evans, Carlos Muniz
sign Manny. for the true fans. please.
I’d also sign Omar Vizquel for Utility Man/Second Base…the Mets could play Murphy there, and bring in Omar Vizquel for late inning defense…imagine Jose Reyes and Omar Vizquel up the middle? Nothing is getting through. Just need to sure up the rotation and sign Manny then….
SIGN MANNY!!
then Omar can really get down to business –
BALTIMORE GETS – Brian Schnieder
BALTIMORE GIVES – Ryan Freel, Brian Burres
METS GET – Ryan Freel, Brian Burres
METS GIVE – Brian Schneider
———————————————————————-
Then….the big one:
TEXAS GETS – Gary Sheffield, Jon Niese, Shawn Bowman, Jeff Niemann
TEXAS GIVES – Hank Blalock, Jarrod Saltalamaccia, Joaquin Arias
DETROIT GETS – Hank Blalock, Marlon Anderson Chad Bradford
DETROIT GIVES – Gary Sheffield, Chris Lambert
METS GET – Jarrod Saltalamaccia, Chris Lambert
METS GIVE – Jon Niese, Shawn Bowman, Marlon Anderson, Eddie Kunz
TAMPA BAY GETS – Joaquin Arias, Eddie Kunz
TAMPA BAY GIVES – Jeff Niemann, Chad Bradford
SIGN MANNY, Ollie and/or Lowe….Sheets or Pedro….and Omar Vizquel
2009 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS -
1)SS – Jose Reyes
2)CF – Carlos Beltran
3)1B – Carlos Delgado
4)LF – Manny Ramirez
5)3B – David Wright
6)RF – Ryan Church
7)C – Jarrod Saltalamaccia
8)2B – David Murphy
Johan, Pelfrey, Maine, (2 of)Ollie/Lowe/Pedro/Sheets?….maybe Wolf I guess….
F-Rod, Putz, Downs, Green, Feliciano, Sanchez, Stokes
Castro, Freel, Tatis, Vizquel, Reed
RESERVES – Parnell, Burres, Lambert, Kunz, F-Mart, Pagan, Cancel, O’Day, Peterson, Gee
lol…or you could just trade Niese and Kunz straight up for Saltalamaccia….I’d throw in Bowman too if that landed him….sign Manny…man, look at that bench, if only it was Endy instead of Reed, but anyway, wow, I love that bench….
SIGN MANNY!!!
most unrealistic post ever
you gotta love that second baseman “David Murphy”
You know, a lot of people in Philly had a problem with Chase Utley’s defense for a year or two…oh, until they realize that offense is more important…what, you don’t think Murphy would work on his defense? besides, in my scenario we’d have Vizquel and Freel…
DANIEL Murphy…excuse me…I was pouring over the Rangers roster all night…
Duh Man!!!!!!!!!!! He is my favorite player on the Mets!!!!!!!! David Murphy 4 MVP!!!!!!!!!
Though in the depths of my mind I somehow keep hearing the name…
DANIEL
For crying out loud this guy doesn’t even know whose on the team!
I think Salty would go for that Trio…but even if he didn’t, although I think he would…What about Jon Maine? Do you think they’d trade him for John Maine? I mean, just what do you think this guy is worth? He can’t get them Buccholz, so he can’t be worth that much. Niese is a notch below Buccholz admittedly, but then again…I guess Salty’s value is too….ya know what though, Kunz and Bowman are nice gets too. Bowman has been raking….the guy can hit…he’s had misfortune no doubt, but he’s proven he can still hit at a high clip…Texas could use a young Third base prospect….
What about Jeffry Marte? He’s a 4 star prospect supposedly….Niese and Marte for Salty? Done…The Mets have the pieces somewhere in their system to nab him, and the Mets need him…..Niese, Marte, and Tony Pena Jr? Done…I don’t care….the Mets have the parts, and don’t need to include F-Mart to get him, and they should make every effort to get either Salty or Teagarden….
What’s unrealistic about it? You don’t think Toronto has any interest in Nick Evans? In case you don’t read much, they’re not exactly enamored with Lyle Overbay and Scott Rolen has a history of injury. With that bullpen, and after losing Burnett I wonder how anxious they are to fork over 4+ million to a lefty reliever. Adding Kennedy and Evans is good for them from a PR stand point. It looks like they’re making moves, and while Kennedy is owed a very similar salary to Downs it looks good for them to make a move for a middle infielder. The Cardinals I think upgrade at Second, and add a bullpen arm to defray the additional expense. I think the Cardinals and Blue Jays like the deal.
You don’t think the Rangers would trade Saltalamaccia for Niese, Kunz, and Bowman? I think they love that idea. If the Mets added Salty, then they need to move Schneider. Baltimore is looking for a Catcher to segue into Wieters. Schneider is PERFECT for them…they were talking to Pudge recently in case you don’t stay atop of things much. Schnieder for Freel and Burres makes sense all around.
The Mets save about 3 million towards this year’s budget, and another 12 down the line. Burres could make a spot start or Parnell could since Niese isn’t around…and the Mets can SIGN MANNY!! and sign Vizquel….2 starters….Beautiful…what an absolutely BEAUTIFUL team that would be…
Saltalamachia was a premier catching prospect. Bowman at this point is a dude who broke his back twice in the same place, and a 25-year-old in AA. He is a dark-horse at best. Kunz is a guy who got shelled in the majors and the AFL and who does not yet project as a closer. Evans has never been a top prospect and has not hit righty pitching in the majors.
Salty is not going for that trio.
^ that was to you Joe Orsulak….wow, I hate this format…its’ so very retarded.
To 4JoeOrsulak:
I think Salty would go for that Trio…but even if he didn’t, although I think he would…What about Jon Maine? Do you think they’d trade him for John Maine? I mean, just what do you think this guy is worth? He can’t get them Buccholz, so he can’t be worth that much. Niese is a notch below Buccholz admittedly, but then again…I guess Salty’s value is too….ya know what though, Kunz and Bowman are nice gets too. Bowman has been raking….the guy can hit…he’s had misfortune no doubt, but he’s proven he can still hit at a high clip…Texas could use a young Third base prospect….
What about Jeffry Marte? He’s a 4 star prospect supposedly….Niese and Marte for Salty? Done…The Mets have the pieces somewhere in their system to nab him, and the Mets need him…..Niese, Marte, and Tony Pena Jr? Done…I don’t care….the Mets have the parts, and don’t need to include F-Mart to get him, and they should make every effort to get either Salty or Teagarden….
4joeorsulak:
I love how you say he WAS a top catching prospect…exactly…Was….now he’s a defensively challenged Catcher who hit .253 and only 3 homers in nearly 200 at-bats….
Yea, that’s a great lineup…
are you playing MLB 2k9 or MLB 09: The Show?
Lol! You are right. That most certainly seemed like a video game trade to me.
Did they come out yet?
Rarecombohunk, craziest post I’ve read on here, and that’s saying alot.
How many times do you throw that line out there?
I don’t see what’s crazy about it…Castillo and Muniz to St Louis for Kennedy, Kennedy and Evans to Toronto for Downs makes sense…I think all teams involved eat that trade up. Texas would do Niese, Kunz, and Bowman for Saltalamaccia, and Baltimore would do Freel and Burres for Schneider…then it’s all signings…
pulling players out of thin air and making trades doesnt happen in real life
Besides the fact that you’ve traded next to nothing for Saltalamacchia and have somehow a$$umed that the Cardinals want to overpay Castillo (while giving up a serviceable second baseman in the deal), and have decided that the Orioles would trade Freel for a catcher who is not as good as the one they just trade FOR freel, you’re also forgetting that Daniel/David Murphy can’t play 2B.
For your whole fantasy league trade to work out, Murphy will have to be able to play the position and there is no indication that he can. I have not read one positive review from a scout or anyone who follows winter leagues/minor leagues in that regard.
What do you mean pulling players from thin air? Those are all real players in the Major Leagues…
Yeah, trades never happen in “real life”…..
Wanny – Niese, Kunz, and Bowman is nothing? Come on pal…as Willie used to say…”That’s alotta Meat!”
Castillo did maintain about a .350 OBP…in a toxic setting…compared to Kennedy’s .321 OBP…Castillo switch hits and has vowed to come into camp strong. I added a reliever to defray the additional cost to St. Louis, and that’s a team that could use some depth. So, if they can get a 2 for 1 on a deal like this I’d think they’d be smoking something not to utilize the opportunity.
Baltimore got back 2 additional players besides Freel in the Ramon Hernandez deal. Hernandez also had additional years beyond this year on his contract, and with Wieters coming up they felt it was a good time to move him while they could. Never know if there’s an injury or something, and Schnieder not only is only signed for one year, but makes considerably less than Hernandez too. Schneider fits Baltimore’s needs like a glove.
First of all, I don’t know why Murphy’s ability or lack there of to play Second Base is what holds this whole brilliant idea together. Secondly, he played Second in the Arizona fall league flawlessly. No errors, and they said he held his own there. Whatever, the Mets would have Ryan Freel and Omar Vizquel in my scenario as well. Freel at Second doesn’t look to bad either…
1. Hernandez’s deal has a team option for 2010. So he’s done after this season, just like schneider, if Cincy so chooses.
2. That meat is not Grade A meat. Texas has a dozen better pitching prospects than Niese and Kunz. And Bowman is old for his level and has yet to really hit at all.
3. The Cards are not exactly the type of team to take on another team’s horrible contract. Even if in shape, his knees are a significant risk for the remaining 3 years of his deal.
HAHA at the Texas trade…..wow thats probally one of the worst proposals ive seen,
enough with the manny nonsense
right now the team has 3 starters adding 2 arms to the rotation is more important than a malcontent bat.
give it a rest
I dont know about you but the 2nd best hitter in baseball is a more important signing than a 5th starter thats just my opinion.
There are hudreds of guys that can be the 5th starter but only one guy is capable of transforming the Mets lineup into one of the most dangerous in baseball and no his name isnt Danny Murphy or Fernando Tatis.
roberto alomar was the best second basemen in history…. nothing is ever a lock
and im not talking about a 5th starter, the mets havent even added a top end guy yet and everyones foaming at the mouth for manny
Robeto Alomar also played in CLE and TOR and clearly couldnt handle NY. Manny has produced in Boston which you can argue has more pressure than playing in Flushing…
manny is the best hitter in baseball….who is better?? if u say arod then u are a real f-a-g
Or someone with an IQ over ten.
Also, ever heard of someone named Albert Pujols?
O-fence-ive.
Let’s sign Lowe first. If the market plays out differently maybe we can still snag Wolf. We knew we were never getting Lowe and Perez. Even if it ends up just being Lowe and Redding that’s not horrible. I agree with some of the above that Niese needs to start the season in AAA.
How about this scenario….. signing Lowe and Perez… then a three way deal with the Mets, Angel, and Brewers… Angels getting Delgaldo, Milwakee getting Maine and prospects, and Mets getting Prince Fielder???
How about the Brewers wouldn’t trade Prince Fielder for John Maine in a million years? Especially since Maine will have to get paid after this season if he has a good year.
So since this thread has become devoted to 0% trade propositions, I couldn’t help myself.
So I bring to all of you in Fantasy Mets Land…
Fantasy GM 7/31/2009 Trading Deadline Extravaganza: Long Shot-Wet Dream Edition
Teams:
Angels, Astros, Mets
Players Involved:
Carlos Delgado, Jon Neise, Brad Holt, Reese Havens, Nick Evans, Kendry Morales, Hank Conger, Lance Berkman, Roy Oswalt
Angels:
Get: Carlos Delgado, Nick Evans
Give: Kendry Morales, Hank Conger
Astros:
Get: Jon Neise, Brad Holt, Reese Havens, Kendry Morales, Hank Conger
Give: Lance Berkman, Roy Oswalt
Mets:
Get: Lance Berkman, Roy Oswalt
Give: Carlos Delgado, Jon Neise, Brad Holt, Reese Havens, Nick Evans
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
SInce the market for Lowe has dropped significantly, the same will likely occur for Ollie and Wolf. Wolf may only get a one-year deal at this point, which is something the Mets would need to explore.
I like that in theory, but when $$ come down enough the little teams can create competition pushing it back up.
as far as I’m concerned Perez’s pitching was one of the several causes of our collapse last season.
I’d rather collect the 1st rounder, get a cheaper 5 starter and use that money for more important needs.
Sheets Sheets Sheets
2 yrs, 24 mil DO IT!
He’s twice the pitcher Perez is when he is on the mound, and you’ve got Niese for when he is not…
I agree.
it will all be moot if the mets do not sign manny. he is the straw that would stir the world series drink. omar has the perfect storm for him. wilpons: turn omar loose for manny!!!
Wow…the scenarios that some of you come up with are out of control…IF we sign lowe, which it seems like we will, ollie and wolf are probably out of the mix….omar is then going to turn his focus to a #5 (redding wouldn’t hurt my feelings) and a utility if…(they keep talking about cora) ALL the while, he is still going to try and find a taker for castillo, which I think is very unlikely…so there’s a really good chance that he winds up our 2nd baseman…and although I too would love to see them try for manny, it is sounding like there is no way its happening…
Pedro needed more time to get fully healthy, and it did happen after the season was over with.
I do believe that he will spring back to being much better then he showed so far.
And if the price is right, along with an incentive program, I would like him back on the team as the 5th starter, or who knows, maybe end up as the 2nd starter.
i dont think he’ll ever be a #2 again but i think he can easily be just as good as John Maine (if healthy)
I would agree with the Pedro thoughts. Yes, expecting him to be a #2 or 1b, like the thought was last year, would unrealistic. But as a #5, who would almost certainly spend a little time on the DL (and thus give Neise a few starts)? That sounds pretty good to me.
i would not be against signing pedro cheap to possibly be #5…Nor would I be surprised…Last year, for a guy like pedro, you kind of have to write it off….with everything he had going on, he just never really got going…BUT, he is way too good of a pitcher, and a SMART one also…even with less velocity, with a clear head, and if he stays healthy, he could be a very serious pitcher, ala maddux….
“pitcher, ala maddux”….Yes indeed he can be. And do it for a few more years, with loyalty and good will.
And not only that but just his teaching/presence on the club has value.
I’d never been a huge fan of bringing Manny in, but the last two years should make the front office willing to take a chance and bring a potential headache to Queens. He would solve a ton of problems and take a lot of pressure off the rest of the line-up.
this is how wilpons “make it up to the fans”:
91% of the metsblog voters WANT MANNY ON THE METS
but wilpons say “so what?…the heck with those fans….we will stubbornly do what we want….maybe bring moises alou back instead and save a few bucks for investing in maddof”
You shouldn’t manage your baseball organization based on the whims of the fans.
First off. We have one of the top 3 payrolls in baseball. How can anyone call our ownership cheap and claim that they do not lookout for the fans? Add in the fact thta they just lost a couple hundred mil, but NOOOO thats chump change to them, of course they should drop 50+ mill on a 38 year old defensively challenged spaec cadet.
I’m not pro-Manny, but you can’t call him a defensively challenges space cadet because that’s only a small part of the story. The BIG part is that he’s the #2 hitter in all of baseball and has been for his entire career. (First, he was 2nd to Bonds, then to Pujols.) He outhits his poor fielding in a big way. His “space-cadet” situation is borderline irrelevant. The other big issue is age. Given his contracting market, he will be worth what he gets. The Mets have outfielders though, and don’t need him. Murphy’s 3.5 WAR for free is enough so that we don’t need Manny’s 5.5 WAR for $14M. If Murph goes to 2nd, that’s a different story.
I’m not convinced there are more important needs than Lowe and another starter. I would love to have a LF, but first things first. We have to get Lowe and we have to get another starter.
if the Mets sign Lowe what really does Omar have left to do??
2B: Castillo is going nowhere (unfortunately)
#5 SP: Niese/Figueroa/Redding/Pedro (not Ollie or Wolf)
C: nothings happening there
bullpen: nothing besides Brian Stokes like signings
There is only one posiiton where there is a player available that is that much better than what we have now and that is LF.
Manny for all his faults makes the team that much better and with no other needs we can really fill, Manny needs to be the prime target after Lowe is signed
dont forget Dunn and Abreu both are better than church or murph/tatis
yes they are better but they arent difference makers. I’d rather play Murphy and see what he can do that sign those 2.
agreed. but manny is the optimal solution to the WS quest
The Mets will have to focus on a good IF backup, because Luis is going to get hurt. The backup will quickly usurp Castillo’s position and Castillo will become a benchwarmer by the All-Star-Break, so Omar better be selective. I’m thinking Willie Aybar.
After Lowe Omar needs to focus on a quiet move that pays huge dividends. Like when he obtained Maine or El Duque, etc.
I agree with you. I don’tthink he is done yet. He needs to try and bring Randy Wolf on a two year deal if possible. If that fails, then he should go out and grab Tim Redding.
On the offensive side, Manny on a one year deal is great, but he shoudl look in toa Milton Bradley for three years. He is playing out his peak years right now, so I feel that this is the right time to buy in on Bradley. He won’t break the bank either.
I would love to see them get Bradley, but I think the Cubs will beat them to it. I believe that Omar has a good focus this year though.
we traded Milledge b/c he was too ghetto. Bradley makes Milledge look like a choir boy
I thought about in on those terms but I feel that Milledge played himself out of here because he was too imature to handle NY. Seeing how Bradley stayed drama free last year might hint at Bradley’s maturation. Another thing to think about is that the Mets might have been willing to deal with Milledge if he was producing.
did someone just suggest they didnt like ollie because he pitched 5 and a third of 2 run ball? and thats why they wanted him gone?
yes i did b/c if we are going to pay Ollie that kind of money 5.1 IP and 2 R and then losing his command in the most important game of the season is not acceptable
Ollie had a 6.58 ERA in his last 5 starts of the season and blew a 5-1 lead in his 2nd to last start. How can you give him that kind of money after that collapse
oleo – who said ollie was going to get ace money? and how can you say he isnt a quality pitcher?
10 wins 4.22 ERA 105 BB
that is not very good
There are quite a few ppl here that disregard logic.
After Lowe,Omar needs to find his backup plan @2B.Look,As I preached last yr,you dont
give a 4yr/big$ contract to a broken down”speed”player in his mid 30s But ofcourse Omar knew better and now we’re
stuck w/him like it or not. At least thru the allstar break next yr when the last yr&half
of the contract doesn’t look like an endless lost road.With that, Omar MUST have a plan
so that when Castillo breaks down again
theres not a black-hole @2B. Not w/2 ground
ball Pitchers out there in Lowe&Pelphrey.
It wasn’t me but it was cited that he didn’t give enough innings in the final game of the season (on 3 days rest) and he let up a big lead in the infamous Murhpy on 3rd with no outs game against the Cubs.
The guy is an adventure and might always be blessed/cursed with a million dollar arm and a 10 cent brain, but he pitched well in 2007 and put up some really strong performances during the summer of 2008 that allowed the team to climb back into contention.
He doesn’t deserve #1 ace money and unless Boras is rejected every deal under $50MM/4 or $60MM/5 without us knowing he’s not going to get an obscenely rich contract.
Remember Darling and El Sid could be frustrating, although in Ronnie’s case it was over-thinking the game. At the right price as a #5, you could do much worse than Ollie.
I’m in agreement. If the price is right, sign Ollie.
2 picks better than Ollie. We give up 2 picks on K-Rod and Lowe. We get them back with Ollie.
Pls.,Don’t compare Ollie to El Sid. AND
Ollie isn’t in the same breath.
What about Lowe and then a 2 year deal for Ben Sheets? Still have to get a real LF’er too.
Forget about Ben Sheets.ALWAYS hurt.
Ain’t we been through that enough?
He could be cheap and worth the upside if we can keep him healthy. Save $$ for LF.
Yeah,But thats the problem.He can’t stay
healthy(7 TRIPS TO THE DL since’01)
How?can you want THIS team w/its history
to gamble on anything more than a 1yr deal?
AND only AFTER Lowe is signed.
The fault in this “logic” is that AJ Burnett, who started his career 2 years before Ben Sheets but has pitched fewer innings in his career than Ben Sheets to a worse K/BB ratio and WHIP than Ben Sheets just signed a 5 year contract!
I think Sheets would be worth the risk, but it’s NOT happening. Omar has clearly rejected that idea.
Thankfully!
I think everyone here can agree that ollie is just way too inconsistent, bottom line….We can’t have that….again, the bullpen was horrible last year, but a lot of that was made even worse by the starters not going deep into games…Now, if you look at the starters, and you ask them to give you 6 innings, the 7th we can mix and match our way through, then the 8th and 9th are locked up…how many games did ollie, pedro, etc not get out of the 4th or 5th??
Mets SP Depth Chart
1. Santana
2. Lowe
3. Maine
4. Pelfrey
5. Pedro
6. Garcia
7. Niese
8. Parnell
9. Figgy
I’d rather the Mets sign a solid pitcher like Wolf or Redding, I could see Pedro as our #5 guy with Garcia, Niese, Parnell and Figgy as callups.
that is fine by me
why exactly is pedro on the teams depth chart?
cuz, I could see the Mets FO sign him to a Glavine type contract (1/8), which isn’t bad for a 5th starter. Like I said, though, as much as I heart Pedro, I’d rather have Wolf or Redding based on the number of quality starts each had last year.
Redding is not a solid pitcher. He’s a journeyman like Figueroa. You need to at least have a good full season before you can be solid.
Wolf is better at being a patient than he is at being a pitcher. His track record (1 season of more than 136 innings since 2003) suggests that he is a horrible risk for more than 1 year — if not a horrible risk for even one year.
Brandon Knight is on the chart before Parnell, and probably before Redding/Wolfe.
ur prob right. for what it’s worth though, Knight isn’t on mets.com Depth Chart for SP, while Parnell is.
Ollie had a 6.58 ERA in his last 5 starts. Omar is trying to rid this team of the players that helped cause the collapse and Ollie has to be next to go
with manny, slappy castillo could be easily tolerated in the lineup.
Especially when they both call in sick, then wind up in the hotel bar while the rest of the team is on the field.
I don’t want Manny on the Mets. First of all, the distractions he would bring to the team would be detrimental. Secondly, he can’t play defense. His fielding percentage is inflated from playing in Fenway Park. Our priority should be with starting pitching and signing Lowe and then Jon Garland or Ben Sheets. Left field is fine as it is with a platoon of Murphy/Tatis that allows each player to be fresh. If we can trade Luis Castillo for bullpen help then we can easily sign Orlando Hudson who would be a huge upgrade and who has mentioned wanting to play for the Mets.
The last time Tatis had a season like this was 2000. It would be a miracle if he could repeat this year again.
Manny for all his faults is a guaranteed .300 30 HR 110 RBI and will play better in the field than Murphy or Tatis who never played outfield until this year…
Thank You!,Yeah Manny was a huge distraction during all those Championship runs in Bos,Clev&LA.
Tatis probably isn’t as good of a fielder as Manny, but Murphy proved last year that he has the range and the arm to be a solid defensive player. Let’s not forget we also got Jeremy Reed in the Putz trade. Although Manny would produce great stats, his persona would not fit well with the Mets who currently have no egotistical self-centered maniacs. Offensively we were fine last year and that was with late season slumps by Wright, Beltran, Reyes, etc. The real problem with the team was pitching. We have already improved our bullpen somewhat, so our priorities should lie in starting pitching and bullpen help.
Ive always browsed this blog. And there are a hand few of ppl on here that i feel are REALISTIC and true fans. Im not gonna say im the biggest and most knowledgable fan here. Im a die hard baseball fan and a crazy Mets fan. Everyone needs to stop talking about how they wouldnt give this person this amount of money and pay up for this person. Because i dont remember anyone including myself being the gm or owner. All we can do is hope they get the players that bring a championship to queens no matter what they spend. I can careless how much they spend on ollie or lowe and whoever theyre targeting. Ive said a lil that was on my chest.
For the most part I agree, but it’s the off-season and we don’t have actual games to talk about. And you’re forgetting one of the original taglines of this website, “one blog, 1 million GMs”.
On an unrelated note to the subject of this thread but Mets-related nonetheless, if you live in NY, Paragon sports is selling MLB jerseys for half off an already slightly reduced price. They have a decent amount of Mets jerseys. I got an authentic road grey Santana yesterday for $110.
I agree. I do care how much they pay inasmuch as it affects what else we can do, but I like what our owners and GM are doing.
i really wonder how many times in the last month or 2 i have read “get manny”
it’s really getting annoying. along with the “sign lowe AND perez AND so and so AND blah blah”
263,961 times
a lot
One More—Go Get Manny!!!
I think: You never have enough pitching. That being said, I think they should sign Lowe and Ollie. Since prices have come down, this is entirely feasible and affordable for them. Truth be known, Santana had knee
surgery, Maine had shoulder surgery, Pelfrey has to do it one more time for me to think he’s solid. Adding Lowe and Perez gives us the best bet to have a solid rotation. If we don’t sign Ollie AND Lowe, they should bring Pedro back. He’s a winner and had a tough year in his personal life and coming back from multiple injuries. I still think there’s some tiger in his tank. Remember he did throw 90 mph when he returned (on oaccasion). He seemed to have difficulty detemrining in his own mind whether he was a junk-baller or hard thrower. There are plenty of effective puitchers who throw from 68 to 88 changing speeds. Pedro will be one of them. I don’t want him pitching for the Phils.
Other moves:
Sign Kevin Millar, Willie Bloomquist and/or Aaron Miles(real gamers)
Please don’t sign Alex Cora.
Sign Orlando Hudson and dump Castillo’s contract
you definately can’t have enough quality pitching but Ollie is definately not a quality pitcher…
how is ollie definitely not a quality pitcher? It’s one thing to say he not consistent, but to say he pretty much is terrible, thats just not true, he pitched near 200 innings last year, and after he changed his windup he had better velocity and control, he pitches in the clutch and is 27, Perez is entering his prime, while Lowe is exiting it.
Manny i feel is the most dangerous and feared hitters in the game. I would love to have him on the team and i would give him a crazy salary for two years. but i doubt its happening. so ppl gotta stop ruining every post with Manny stuff. trust me. i think hes great but if were not getting him than stop posting about it. But all reality the merchandise and ticket sales alone the guy would bring in would pay enough for his contract. and the 40 hr and 130 rbi and 300 plus avg would be good too.
Do you think Citifield will not be sold out the next two seasons without Manny?
No chance, the place will be jam packed regardless of Manny. He’s not selling any tickets that aren’t already being sold.
Funny i dont remember seeing that info about being sold out for the next 2 years. guess i cant go now. And u must not no anything about Marketing. so im really not gonna get into what makes sense with you.
Don’t try to insult me because I disagree with your idea, especially when you’re idea is wrong and your insult is 100% unfounded and incorrect.
Of course, it is not sold out now. Tickets are still being sold. But you know full well that it will be. Remember that there are 10,000 fewer seats than at Shea Stadium.
And when was the last time any new stadium housing a respectable team did not sell out, let alone one in New York?
The Mets don’t need Manny to sell tickets. Citifield will sell tickets itself for the remainder of the 2-3 years Manny would be here — on the novelty alone.
Also, if you’re going to try to insult me I prefer that you do it with proper punctuation and spelling. “No” what I mean?
I doubt jam packed. Look at economy. !es horrible! It is very unfortunate and sad that we are going through this, but people who come on a regular basis, well, they wont be anymore.
Okay Obama, You try getting close to a mall
the past couple weeks. Jeez, public stop
being lead around by the media.
Where are the soup lines?
Jeez dont have to get heated about it man, plus its freakin serious. It doesnt take an idiot to know that. Especially a fellow Met fan, I mean cmon you are a smart guy! The media has nothing to do with it. I feel like everywhere I turn somebody says “the media is brainwashing us” or “the media will cause the apocalypse” or something freakin ridonkulous like that. This is a site for Met fans to talk about the greatest team to grace New York. So lets have a nice big cup of STFU and talk about baseball!
Of course Citi will be sold out….however, the Wilpons will now make most of their money from TV, as have the Yanks for 20-something years. Manny equals much higher TV ratings, which equals a LOT more ad dough to the Wilpons. Manny will also undoubtedly sell countless shirts in the NY area, which also brings in more money, though not 100% of it, like the local TV dough. And the postseason brings in scads of cash as well.
Manny is a head case, and I cannot believe we are still debating him, but while he does not guarantee the postseason, he almost does, but he absolutely and positively guarantees tons of extra money for the Wilpons.
I’d like to see some support for the statement that Manny will increase TV ratings. Can you produce evidence of increased TV ratings following the acquisitions of Santana or Piazza?
For all I know, it exists. I’d love to see it. But I sure wouldn’t a$$ume it.
The Mets have a good team without Manny. Mets fans will watch.
Then, of course, you’ll have to show me that the Mets were able to gain higher ad revenues coinciding with those signings.
Wow WANNY. you must of looked up a few websites for those big words you just used.
Are you an a$$hole whenever your fares disagree with the route you choose to drive?
Or are you capable of engaging in an intelligent conversation on the merits of the topic? “U no,” with facts and stuff?
You shouldn’t question the intellect and experience of others, particularly when you haven’t demonstrated any of your own.
Must “of?” That doesn’t sound like it was written by someone with a dictionary.
What I found funny about your comment was that you were like “Manny is feared and so good and his 40 HR and 130 RBI would help so much…SO LETS STOP POSTING ABOUT IT CAUSE ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN”
But dont worry, I agree with you in the aspect that he would help and it probably will not happen. But I found it gullible of to post a fairly long(ish) comment about he being spectacular yet in the end stating “HOW ABOUT WE STOP POSTING ABOUT IT?
CORRECTION:
of you
Tatis probably isn’t as good of a fielder as Manny, but Murphy proved last year that he has the range and the arm to be a solid defensive player. Let’s not forget we also got Jeremy Reed in the Putz trade. Although Manny would produce great stats, his persona would not fit well with the Mets who currently have no egotistical self-centered maniacs. Offensively we were fine last year and that was with late season slumps by Wright, Beltran, Reyes, etc. The real problem with the team was pitching. We have already improved our bullpen somewhat, so our priorities should lie in starting pitching and bullpen help.
Does everyone really think that a healthy and in shape castillo is that bad. or that hudson is that much of an improvement. i like hudson but c’mon lets be for real. ive seen castillo make sum amazing plays. steal bases and hit for nice avg with high obp. KEEP IN MIND PPL I SAID HEALTHY CASTILLO
Hudson will probably become an albatross. Get Willie Aybar as a “backup” and let him take over when Castillo gets hurt. Castillo will not see virtually any time after that happens, and even Omar will have to bite the bullet and buy him out.
Problem is that @ 35 w/ an xtra 40/50 lbs
on his frame the last few yrs,bad knees
and a hip that may in time need to be replaced, The player Castillo once was
which was all about speed is no longer
there.
Can somebody explain to me why you would want Sheets over Perez, besides being cheap lol…cuz why spend on somebody who has injury issues over a guy who can be a great pitcher when he is on and is still young..and has pitched here already..
OP: 10 W 4.22 ERA 194 IP 34 GS 105 BB 180 K 1.40 WHIP
Sheets: 13 W 3.09 ERA 198.3 IP 31 GS 47 BB 157 K 1.15 WHIP
Sheets is better is every aspect of the game and pitched more innings in 3 less starts.
Perez might have “upside” but that upside comes around once every 6 starts or so.
nunzi your not the only one who thinks that to…and that’s another reason we should get manny to take some pressure off some of the other guys in the line up like castillo, who can have a comeback year if he is healthy and doesn’t let the fans booing get to him..remember this guy had some great years with the Marlins..
Thanku Caesar. i found someone that know about the game on this site. Second base is a defensive position. Castillo healthy would b great for the team. And for the rest of the closet fans no to boo ur team especially on opening day. You should never boo your team. I never experienced anything more ridiculous. Bc i know if i was booed playing in the bigs i just wouldnt care and sit back and collect my check. Hell with the fans.
Please buy out Crap-stillo’s contract and let him walk. If he plays…he’s injury prone and error prone. The guy was the DP machine last year as well. If he’s on the bench…he’s a malcontent. There were times last season that he would mope on the bench and whine to the press after a game. Neither scenario is good.
Aybar would be good. I would take Hudson as well.
Okay, so you want the same group who is
currently tryin’ to nickel&dime the FAs they’re
interested in to eat 18Mil over 3 yrs?/
It’s a business strategy. You have to take a loss sometimes. Make a deal with Castillo to spread the payments out over a longer period of time. Purely a suggestion to rid the team of what many people find a liability. This type of deal happens in all sorts of businesses.
Are you comfortable with Castillo at 2B?
And I am not a person to boo a player even if they slump and hit poorly. And I’m not talking exclusively about Castillo here.
Not only do I not want Luis Aches&Pains
But I was the biggest detractor of Omar/
the deal last year on this blog. For which,
I was knocked around and banned.
But reality is what it is. No one wanted Castillo at their price/length let alone Omars.
So, I’d say about 95-99% chance he’s our
2B this year,hence the need to bring in plan
B for when he does(and he will) go down.
Following the Wall Street stradegy, buy low and sell high, the Mets should sign all 3 while prices are so reasonable.
It’s a good time to buy stock and a good time to sign free agent pitchers!
Strike while the iron is hot….
and that ain’t bull
steadyeddie,
Overall, not a bad notion, but I am somewhat loathe to follow the suggested course of action of someone who spells strategy with a “d”.
LMFAO!!!!
herr gipmeister;
you rite
stocks A+
baseball pitchers A
spelin, not so much!
get lowe
And Manny!
agreed nunzi. the problem with a majority of NY fans (both mets and yankees) is the short leashes they see mto have with some guys. they honestly are morons if they think booing somone is going to help the team in anyway or help that player get out of the rut that he’s in. booing only makes things worse.
Beltran got booed in his first year (i know he wasnt great that year so you have to expect it) but then on opening day the next year the morons booed him after he popped up in his first at bat. are you serious?!? nice way to start the year your gonna boo a guy in his first at bat for not hitting a homer. smart thinking fans!
you think aaron heilman (who i hate) or shoneweis or castillo or kaz matsui or mota would be as bad if they didnt get booed every time they entered a game? booing hurts your team. STOP doing it.
i’m ranting right now because i know castillo is going to hear boos in his first at bat next year, and all that that is going to do is make him worse. give the guy a break. If he’s healthy (which he wasnt last year) he can be more than league average. we have better things to worry about.
Heilman made me literally sick so he deserved the boos and anything else that came his way…
If we get Manny… Castillo can hit .200 and it wouldnt matter in that lineup.
awesome, get the deal done then go SIGN MANNY.
I dont wanna hear about the dodgers getting manny because no one wants him…..Mets needs to get this guy…
exactly no one wants to give him big money, the mets have plenty of money bring him in for whatever the price has fallen to and win a title (at the very least we wont collapse down the stretch).
if we end up trading castillo he is gunna be awesome…if we keep him hes gunna su-ck
lmao @ nunzi i agree you shouldn’t boo your team unless they are just giving up, and i wouldn’t care if ppl booed me but i would still play hard, and even harder especially if your in a slump
With the Wilpons obvious distaste of/for
Manny, Any chance Omar could move
Castillo to SF for Rowland?
Apparently,They have some interest in Manny
but have money issues and not real clear
who will play 2B for them.
I like that idea, rowand would be a good RFer, but unfortunately we know what happens when you have 2 gold glove CFers in the same outfield. that being said hes RH, he is a great club house guy and is very “gritty”. he’d also be great for the 6 hole making our lineup a lot deeper.
you have to give in order to receive and Rowand is going to cost the mets a lot more than Luis Castillo and a prospect.
Obviously, however again if The Giants
are looking to move the 4yrs/48mil
w/Rowlands contract in order to bring in
Manny,even taking on Castillos 3/18 they’d
still be ridding 30mil while having the option
of either Lewis or Burris to play Center.
Just a thought BUT he’d be a good fit.
In alot of ways!
seems like a sensible alternative indeed
im pretty sure that they would only be saving 20 million.
Mets need to get Manny Ramirez, i cant believe this guy still a free agent.. 2 Years $50 mil and a club option
Definitely would not put a club option on ManRam’s contract. Thats what started the whole mess with the red sox last year
Last I checked -NSR-48Mil-18Mil=30mil.
Anyone have D Sanchez’s stats against lefties two years ago? There was a listing about the need for another lefty. Even though Dirty is a righty, just curious . He would be a lights out 7th inning guy if he returns to form.
The Mets then would need decent 6th inning pitching , with starters who go 5 or more
I Split G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS Pk BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
+-+————+—+—-+—-+—+—+–+–+–+—+—+—+—+—+—+—+—+—+–+–+—–+—–+—–+—–+—–+—–+—–+————+
vs RHB as RH 47 124 106 5 19 2 0 1 11 2 26 3 4 0 5 8 0 0 0 .179 .275 .226 .501 .228 39 58 vs RHB as RH
vs LHB as RH 45 105 87 16 24 7 0 2 13 4 18 1 0 4 1 4 0 0 0 .276 .362 .425 .787 .310 98 149 vs LHB as RH
Looks like he wasn’t too filthy against lefties in 06.
Aaron Miles has signed with the Cubs, 2 years, 4.9 million.
He would have been a nice utility infielder for us.
What is everyone’s thoughts on Juan Uribe from the White Soxs? Maybe, he could fill that role with us? He plays both short and second, even got in some significant time at third base last season. He has pop in his bat, but is one of those all or nothing kind of hitters. Still might not be a bad option though.
Not a Good guy nor a real good player.
Stay away.
once Lowe signs manny needs to be our next target.
I cant fathom how a #5 starter or a middle reliver is a more pressing need that the best cleanup hitter in baseball.
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Manny
Delgado
Church
Castillo (were stuck with him)
Schneider
best 1-5 in baseball right there in addition to a great 1-4 in the rotation and a dominant 8th and 9th inning sets the stage for a WS run
If that is too inlegible, go to: (remove parantheses)
(baseball-reference).co(m/pi/psplit.cgi?n1)=sanchdu01&year=2006
Just saw on MLBTR that the Cubs signed Aaron Miles for 2B and are possibly looking to trade M DaRosa. Scratch Miles off the list as a super-utility option.
Get DeRosa!
DeRosa would be a solid 2B for us but unfortuantely Castillo blocks his path
he would make a nice deadline acquisition though
Yeah, I saw that too IndianaMets. Miles would have been a nice fit with us. Anyways, how about Juan Uribe now for the job? Uribe is a free agent, plays great defense, and has pop in his bat, although he’s a free swinger. Meanwhile we’re linked with Alex Cora, who is all glove and no bat. Might as well go with Uribe?
DeRosa’s about to be dealt to the Indians.
I’m guessing DeRosa will go to the Indians for young pitching, which the Cubs will then use to trade for Peavy…
Fantastic if the Mets can pull off this discount, but PLEASE Wilpons, sign Manny. Nobody wants him. You can get him on the cheap. If you can get him with a 2 year deal, you owe it to the fans to get him. If the Mets get Manny, I can live with Castillo. The mets sign Manny and Lowe, they’re winning the division, period.
They don’t OWE the fans anything. Man, where are you coming from?
Yeah they do. The Mets fans have come out in record numbers last season despite a choke filled product. I say they do owe the fans. THAT’S where I’m coming from.
Saber you have made some knowledgeable post but this is def not one of them.
MY ONLY MANNY COMMENT:
1) Signing a number 5 starter vs. signing one of the best hitters in baseball?
I don’t know how you can argue that one. Look at the teams that win world series (phillies, red sox, cardinals). What do they have in common? A dominating 5th starter or a big bat in the middle of their lineup that doesn’t fold under pressure?
2) Manny the malcontent – headache – etc:
I never heard much about this with cleveland, and Boston loved Manny up until this year. And what happened this year, Manny acted up a little because Boston gave him a joke of a contract extension for someone who has won them 2 world series, and then they continue to bad mouth him in the media to drive his price down – i say good for Manny.
3) Manny’s defense –
He’s one of the best hitters in baseball should be enough to defeat this argument. I’ll throw in the fact that while he played the smallest LF in the league, you can also call it one of the more difficult ones with the bounces off the wall, and he actually played it very well. He also made a play where he made a tough catch high fived the fan and threw out a guy at first – while most find that just comical, it was actually a very difficult play.
4) He is getting old, won’t produce like that, he only plays when he wants.
Look through his career numbers, they never drop, puts up the same great numbers every year, including playoffs. Why would we think they would all of a sudden drop in 1 year. We would only sign him for probably 3. I think he has at least 2 terrific seasons left, and maybe 1 average one, I would definately go with that gamble for someone who produces like him. He only plays when he wants to? So i guess that means every year. We gambled on Pedro and he gave us 1 good year, why not gamble on Manny for a much shorter contract and a much more sure thing.
BOTTOM LINE:
This team has choked TWICE. During both those choke jobs how many times could we have made the playoffs with a clutch hit here and there? That is all this guy does. And if we ever do make the playoffs, I can name a guy who wont strike out with the bat on his shoulder in a big spot.
I just fail to see how signing one of the best hitters, most clutch season and post season hitter in history, is more of a GAMBLE than signing – wolf, sheets, ollie or whatver other name you throw out – besides the fact hes on the cheap right now.
A-friggin-men!!
you are indeed wise. too bad the wilpons dont appear to be. omar has the PERFECT STORM to SIGN MANNY.
not to mention that a 5th starter becomes the long man in the playoffs
and before you say “We have to make the playoffs first” adding Manny, Lowe, Putz and K-Rod to an 89 win team is a lock to get at least the wildcard
Why take a shot at Beltran? You need to look more closely at the value between these two guys:
Year Beltran Manny
2002 $12.7 mil $16.9 mil
2003 $15.4 $17.5
2004 $19.0 $15.9
2005 $ 6.2 $10.9
2006 $26.3 $14.3
2007 $20.0 $ 5.1
2008 $28.7 $29.2
Playing left field is a joke if its deep you know you dont have a shot so you move in shallow to play it off the hop. Everyone can make a nice play once in a while but it doesnt mean anything. The fact is the Mets have choked the last two seasons not because of offense but because of pitching. With the wins the bullpen blew and the inconsistency of maine, perez, and martinez this year, we shouldnt have been worrying that much about games in september.
AMEN…and so we move on, WITHOUT Manny.
We haven’t made the playoffs because of a combination of bullpen (the biggest reason) lack of timely hitting (which manny clears up) and some poor starts. Bottom line Manny goes a longer way than a 5th starter does, look around the league no one pays millions of dollars on their 5th starter, it isnt important if you are hitting and have a bullpen which hopefully we do now, along with a nice top of the rotation.
Bottom line you are crazy if you don’t want him.
which is why the Mets have fixed their bullpen and are planning to add Lowe as a huge upgrade on Ollie and come on who was the phillies 5th starter last year Adam Eaton???
Redding or Niese is just as good as Adam Eaton
not the offense huh? how many games could the mets have won if they could only man up and score in the late innings….instead of going 1-2-3 and out inning after inning. how bout all those double plays the mets hit into with weak grounders from wright’s loopy swing…..the beltran statue……delgado swinging at balls that almost hit him….lol….get real. the mets NEED a clutch consistant hitter like manny…they NEED manny.
again i could say imagine how many games we would have won if not for the bullpen. santana would have been a 19 game winner at least and without all the blown saves we would have been up by more than 3 games in september.
btw im talking about left field in fenway
one year for manny would be nice, but think about it….it would be BETTER to lock him up for two years instead of him having a super year (as usual) and then have to negotiate again because the fans, etc. love how he helped the mets reach the promised land.
Apparently DeRosa to the Indians for minor leaguers is almost done. Does anybody else see us resiging Pedro and then have him and Niese split the 5th starter duties? Wouldnt surprise me, as we are trying to spend as little $$ as possible. Maybe saving it for a big 1 year contract for Manny. As much as I dont care for Manny, can you imagine what he would do during a one year contract?
sabermetrician says:
December 31, 2008 at 12:36 pm
How valuable is Manny? Here’s a comparison between $$ value of Beltran and Manny. Manny fans need to look more closely at the value between these two guys:
Year Beltran Manny
2002 $12.7 mil $16.9 mil
2003 $15.4 $17.5
2004 $19.0 $15.9
2005 $ 6.2 $10.9
2006 $26.3 $14.3
2007 $20.0 $ 5.1
2008 $28.7 $29.2
which is why id love to have them both!!!
What if he’s the 07 Manny? No guarantee for the playoffs then.
LOL!!!! the 07 manny is STILL a more clutch better hitter than anyone on the mets lol
Bel-Tron IS NOT Manny!
You’re right. Beltran is not Manny, he’s a more well-rounded player. If I had the choice I’d take Beltran hands down.
Thats true Beltran Has gold gloves
Not only gold gloves, but I would argue that he is presently the best defensive outfielder in the game. Only Sizemore or some defensive specialists could compete (C Gomez, E Chavez, W Harris, etc)
Okay,I get it sabes, you don’t like/want
Manny. But please Bel-Tron isn’t even in
the discussion when you talk all-time
players.Manny is AND is THE best hitter
of his time. Additionally, HE has Won.
Further unlike Bel-Tron,Manny needs
no one to run cover for him both on and
off the field.
You need to look more closely at numbers. While Manny’s career numbers are superior to Beltran’s (no argument there) that’s not the end of the story.
“I cant fathom how a #5 starter or a middle reliver is a more pressing need that the best cleanup hitter in baseball.”
Gee, you think the fact the Mets scoring the 2nd most runs in the NL but blowing the most saves had something to do with it? Duh, it’s the pitching stupid!
I would rather take a chance on Marti as long as the bidding on him doesn’t get too out of hand. They still need help in the bullpen given how poor the performances of Sanchez and Feliciano were last season. Someone like Marti makes perfect sense for the Mets.
:
This Manny thing has people rejecting logic, statistics, and sound arguments. Manny is a sure-fire HoFer, but he’s not coming here, so why do people keep posting???
Because during this season of Hope
(And Change) ,One can always hope.
im pretty sure we fixed the whole blowing saves thing
Lowe replacing Perez gives us one of the best 1-4 in baseball
so i guess you were happy with the fact that Nick Evans was our #5 hitter in the last game of the season and that Ramon Martinez was batting 7th.
No one said we didn’t need improvements, but face reality. Manny Ramirez will NOT be a Met.
Huh? The Mets blew many saves in the earlier innings last season … not just the 8th and 9th.
So how can it be fixed??????
Plus, Putz is coming off an injury-plagued sub-par season. So which Putz will show up?
You can NEVER have enough pitching. They never say that about bats.
Heres to me getting high and the Mets Getting Lowe
Happy New Year !!!!!!!!!!!
bro, the mets have had no “monster” cleanup hitter since piazza. SIGN MANNY!!!!
Piazza in his prime. yeah, the good old days when teh Mets went to the WS every year on his back!
Oh wait…
I hear ya i think the dust has to settle with all the pitching stuff untill he moves somewhere i dont care what the wilpons say i think its all a act to get the price down and if hes there i think the mets have to think about a 2 year deal
Piazza was a team player wasnt his fault we had armando benitez 4 a closer(remember him lol)
For all the Benitez kicking, He was better
than all who have replaced him so far.
Seem to be a lot of posters that either don’t believe the Mets have a budget (or maybe just htink they shouldn’!) It isn’t like Manny is going to fall into omar’s lap for a minor league contract. The idea to “just swoop in and grab him for 2/50″ still means adding 25 million to the payroll for ‘09.
I guess in a yankee world, payroll means nothing. But unfortuneatly, in Metsland, it does.
So it is a real question of, where does the money come from? i would rather see a stacked pitching staff (say Lowe and Sheets) instead of Redding and Neise.
Or, take on salary to improve actual weak spots like 2B or C.
I actually think that landing Manny on a 1 year deal if it comes to that is a good idea, even if it means expanding the payroll for 1 year. But, I don’t make the decisions.
manny at 1 year, 22 million? Grab him. 3/75? maybe not.
i think its more about the years than the cash
Don’t shoot me for saying this, but I think Odalis Perez would not be a bad # 5 starter for us. If we sign Lowe that is. I think we need 2 lefty starters to offset Utley, Howard, Ibanez for 17,18 games. I doubt mngmt will pay for Wolf or Ollie as well as Lowe and I’d rather Odalis than Redding or Garcia because he’s a lefty. Pedro is done, please let’s move on from Pedro. Yes we love him, but it’s time to say goodbye. If you put Odalis on a good team, big park, good defense, he can win 10-12 games for us. Look at his stats compared to Wolf, Ollie and some others and he’s not that far off.
You are absolutely right. Beyond the Box Score posted peripheral stats for Odalis and Oliver the other day without the names and said, “They look the same, but only one is going to become rich.”
I love this kind of logic for the 5 hole. Don’t get hung up onthe big name. Look at output/results instead. If odalis can give comparable results to Ollie, and they can save 10mill/year (+ picks), it makes sense. As-suming, of course, they take the savings and deploy it elsewhere.
Again, there is a budget.
So, is Odalis + Fuentes + Wiggington worth more to the team (at the same $$/year) than Ollie + Rincon + Cora?
if either set costs 13mill/year, I know which one I want!
I don’t know why we haven’t heard Odalis linked to the Mets. Seems like such a good move.
Seems like most of the guys omar gets you never hear about in advance.
“the Cubs signed infielder Aaron Miles to a two-year deal worth $4.9MM. The deal was first reported by ESPN Radio’s Bruce Levine. Speculation is that the move could allow the Cubs to trade Mark DeRosa.
Miles, 32, hit .317/.355/.398 in 408 plate appearances for the Cardinals this year while playing all around the diamond. Miles was one of the top free agent bargains of 2008 at $1.4MM.”
This is what Omar needs to be doing while waiting for Lowe. Start signing guys like Miles to make the bench stronger. It sometimes seems, and only because we’re on the outside, that the Mets cannot multi-task and handle a coupe of different signings.
yea we need manny cuz clutch hitting was lacking for us, you can even look at game 7 of the 2006 NLCS for proof
Wow, one game. That’s a huge sample size. I’m convinced that all we need is Manny.
how about the last week of the season especially game 162 when we only had like 3 hits against the marlins
I know, I know…you keep throwing out huge sample sizes, how can I argue.
Plus, You can’t argue with Mannys entire history.
Look at 07. We’re not that far removed.
Wow!, At this point sabes, your really floundering around for rebuttles.
Again, I like Bel-Tron BUT Manny hes not.
Also, the arguement really isn’t Manny vs. a 5th starter/scrubeenie. the mets will certainly have a 5th starter next year!
The real choice being argued (I hope) is about getting a upper-rotation guy (sheets, OP, etc.), which then pushes maine or Pelfrey down into the 5 hole.
So, instead of a rotation 4 deep + crap du jour (remember Lima time?), they go with a 5 deep rotation.
Maybe not needed for the playoffs, but it for sure can help you get there!
come on we had 89 Wins last year and missed the playoffs by 1 game. how does getting Lowe, Manny, Putz and K-Rod not get us to the playoffs
Ask the 2008 Tigers. Or the yankees for that matter.
Guys get hurt, performance tails off, all kinds of reasons.
But yeah, on paper, that makes them a better team, and a good candidate for the playoffs.
But no guarantees in life.
injuries cannot be predicted but i dont see how getting Oliver Perez instead of Tim Redding wins us more games than Manny over Tatis.
Great point about multi tasking. Get us another lefty reliever too while we’re waiting on Boras. Ohman? Need 2 lefty starters and 2 lefty relievers vs the Phillies in 09.
Derosa actually makes a lot of sense and the Cubs got A.Miles to back up the IF and apparently are going to use the money saved on the Marquis to Colorado for Bradley in Rf……..which gives them Soriano in LF…Fukadome and Johnson in CF
perhaps a descent prospect and Marlon Anderson who can be the Cubs Lefty PH guy
Derosa can play the corner OF and 2B……..still does’nt give them a natural SS backup though
alright i brought up an idea yesterday that i know would not happen but imagine if this happened…
trade our top prospects for hanley ramirez
sign manny
sign lowe
hanley is not expensive, lowe we seem to be getting a bargain with and manny we can spend on
reyes
hanley
wright
manny
delgado
beltran
church
schnieder
yes beltran would be batting 6th
no one can tell me that there is a better lineup in the mlb than that one…1st six batters are all stars
now of course this would never happen but a person can always dream
Ihave a question for all you Manny lovers. what makes you so sure that if Manny comes to the Mets, that he will go all out and try is hardest. as a met what does he have to play for. i believe if he comes here he wont be motivated like he would be on an al team vs Boston. yea he did great for the dodgers, but he was just traded and he basically had to play hard. he has nothing to play for as a met. i would still take him because him not trying would still produce 30 homer 90 rbis but i think you guys should think about what type of player Manny is instead of his bat.
if he gets a 1 or 2 year deal he has to play for another contract and has to behave himself to prove that he deservesit
I don’t know even if he does do great teams are still not going to be as interested in him because of his age in 1 or 2 years..just like now. i still feel he could be so much more determined and motivated playing for an al team. i think the yanks are crazy for not offering him a 1 year deal just imagine that lineup and him vs Boston
i dont understand what u are saying…right now he is 36…if he gets a 1 or 2 year deal he has to play hard because he will want another contract after that when he will be 38 years old….that is when he will probably be looking to the AL.
well you know what. Manny can not be predicted. Manny is Manny and i think we all know that by now. he has his reasons for doing what he wants. is till don’t think he would be as motivated as he would be in the al playing for the Yankees or some al team. but i agree with everyone that i want him so bad because hes so clutch and hits better than any met when hes not even trying. but if he comes here he better not be lolly gagging in the field. i cant believe i just said that phrase but he better not.
Manny didnt try his hardest and still put up numbers comparable to David Wright
but what makes you think Manny wont try his hardest. He was trying his hardest up until 08. That’s 15 years of trying and about 4 months of not trying.
You are ignoring the obvious! He was in the NL with the Dodgers and geuss what? He took that team and lifted them to the playoffs. I DONT CARE IF HE WAS TRYING OR NOT. THE FREAKIN POINT IS THAT HE WENT TO THE PLAYOFFS, WHICH THIS TEAM HASNT DONE FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS.
I still think murphy can play second base, I mean he was a 3B in the minors. I think he can be like kelly johnson defensively, but a much better hitter. then trade for a catcher like bengi molina. if we do this, we can call f-mart to platton with tatis in LF.
reyes
murphy
beltran
delgado
wright
church
molina
tatis/f-mart
thats a good lineup!!!
if murphy is terrible at 2B, get a new 2B at the trade dealine.
Vcarever –
“2nd most runs in the NL.”
This is a time where stats are misleading.
If you followed Mets everyday then you know you can’t begin to count the number of games the Mets would score early and then shutdown for rest of game.
You can’t even begin to count how many wasted opportunities went by that they couldn’t tack on another run or two to a slim lead only to have bullpen blow it.
I’m not saying pitching is not more important but let’s not say the offense is peachy keen either.
“This is a time where stats are misleading.
If you followed Mets everyday then you know you can’t begin to count the number of games the Mets would score early and then shutdown for rest of game.”
Yes, simply saying the Mets scored the second most runs in the NL is misleading because I forgot to add they did it mostly in pitchers park! So it’s actually more impressive.
And it’s total nonsense about it mattering when you score the runs. It doesn’t matter when you score them as long as you score them … and scoring them early should actually be an advantage as it takes pressure off the starters.
Its funny how 2 people can see the same thing and come away with 2 totally different point of views that’s why I love baseball.
=)
Buried this somewhere up top (comparing the 2 OP SPs), but what the heck, beat a dead horse!
Again, there is a budget.
So, is Odalis + Fuentes + Wiggington worth more to the team (at the same $$/year) than Ollie + Rincon + Cora?
if either set costs 13mill/year, I know which one I want!
Insert your set of players here. And yeah, manny gets to factor into the equation.
Of course, need to get Lowe locked up first to let the other dominos fall.
Lowe + K rod I bet was Omars primary to-dos this off season. Putz was a nice extra surprise (meaning better than the Street type he was expecting to get).
So, once the key peices are in place, I want to see some wheeling/dealing going on to really make over the team.
Don’t beleive he plans to sign Lowe and be done. I hope at least it isn’t true…
Fuentes??? why would he take less money to be a middle reliever ????
i do agree though i’d rather have Manny and Odalis Perez than Tatis/Murphy and Oliver Perez.
when the Mets increase ticket, parking, merchandise and concession prices, the payroll should be increased as well.
spending like the Yankees no thats unreasonable but signing Manny and Lowe and then signing the rest of the parts cheap is very reasonable
Fuentes signed with the Halos anyway.
There should be NO reason we can’t get Lowe AND Perez…
I can’t wait till Manny signs with LA now that Boris has crawled back to Colletti. That will shut up the obnoxious pining and whining for Manny. I’m sure there will be a few of the insipid lame “Freddy Coupon” comments for awhile, but most of this nonsense will go away.
The idiot fans blame the Mets not wanting to get Manny on money. They don’t realize that ownership does not want him here because of his attitude.
I would love to have Manny but I understand why ownership would not want him. These fans who call the Wilpons cheap I guess don’t look around baseball and realize that besides the Yankees the Mets are the only other team spending money this offseason.
I think it’s both — money and character.
… plus age.
There were two reasons why we ended up losing last season. The number one reason, of course, was the fact that we had a god awful bullpen. We would find any way imaginable to blow games that were practically gift-wrapped for victory. The second reason, however, was that while our offense was relatively productive, we never delivered the knockout punch to the opposition in order to keep possible comebacks out of reach and put games away for good. Manny Ramirez certainly delivers us an answer that is the ultimate winning knockout punch.
Bottom line is they scored the same number of runs as the Phillies last season — in a pitchers park!
The Phillies didn’t need to score knock-out runs because their bullpen didn’t give it up.
Double standard.
Nickel and Dime the free agents they are interested in? So to make you feel better they should overpay for free agents so you don’t feel like they are being cheap, when they can get these guys at a discount? I’d love to have you as a client, I’m sure I could get top dollar for anything I’m selling.
idiot fans do not realize that besides the Yanks the Mets are the only other team out there this offseason spending money.
this is kinda irrelavent but the angels signed Brian Fuentes to a two year deal
I dont get this, they let their own all-star closer go, to sign an older and less effective closer…ummmm!
I’m hoping it’s Lowe and erratic Ollie goes elsewhere. This would be a nice ugrade.
would probably give us an extra 5 Wins at least
“Choke no more” –
You talk as if Manny only produces when motivated.
He has always hit hands down in the last 14 years his worst year was in 2007 he hit:
.296 20hr 88rbi 71bb 143hits 92so in 133 games played
This idea he only produces when motivated is not accurate.
and Manny “supposedly not trying” hit .299 20 HR 68 RBI in like 350 AB and was on pace for 31 HR 111 RBI.
then the guy goes to the NL and hits .396 17 HR 53 RBI in 52 games and puts the Dodgers in the playoffs VIRTUALLY BY HIMSELF.
if thats not the kind of production you want on your team than what are you looking for??
you make a strong case. but he had to show up his old team, what is he going to do be traded then just not try, that would make him look even worse then people see him now. what does it matter anyway i hate this Manny talk now. hes not coming here, we just have to get over it.
?
“…signing Manny and Lowe and then signing the rest of the parts cheap is very reasonable”
No, it’s not. That would likely bring them around $10 mill over the LT threshold to start the season. Any mid-season additions would push them even further over the top into Yankee spending territory.
besides Jeter and Rivera, Manny is quite possibly the best winner in baseball.
The Mets have problems winning big games.
match made in heaven
Manny won zilch before Epstein improved their pitching. And he’s a big risk for a steep decline in performance because of age.
Jeter is overrated.
Only Rivera is the big difference maker among those 3.
Is the Mets g-l-a-s-s half-full or is it half-empty?
Is what it boils down to.
It’s about 85% full right now, as-suming Lowe is signed.
85% Nice
So what gets us to 100%?
I know its not Manny according to you.
No team’s gla$$ is ever 100% full.
Even the gluttonous Yankees have issues remaining.
i can just picture the handshakes and routines Manny and Jose would have after Manny crushes a fly ball over the wall in Philly.
Manny would give this team so much swagger and he’ll back it up too
There were two reasons why we ended up losing last year. The number one reason, of course, was the fact that we had a god awful bullpen. We would find any way imaginable to blow games that were practically gift-wrapped for victory. The second reason, however, was that while our offense was relatively productive, we never delivered the knockout punch to the opposition in order to keep possible comebacks out of reach and put games away for good. Manny Ramirez certainly delivers us an answer that is the ultimate winning knockout punch.
Bottom line is the Mets scored the same number of runs as the Phillies last season — in a pitchers park!
The Phillies didn’t need to score knock-out runs because their bullpen didn’t give it up.
Double standard saying the Mets need to.
Let’s break down Mets to 4 categories.
1.) Starters
2.) Bullpen
3.) Offense
4.) Defense
On a scale of 1 to 10, ten being on par with BEST teams in MLB. Where do we rank Mets?
I say
1.) Starters = 8
2.) Bullpen = 10
3.) Offense = 7
4.) Defense = 7
I think Santana, Maine, Lowe (If signed), Pelfrey, can hang with almost anyone in MLB
Bullpen barring injuries I’m thinking of when Reds had the Nasty Boys.
Offense has holes which Delgado is going to show up the one before or after last years Yankee series. LF, RF, 2nd & Catcher big ???’s
Defense is OK again LF, 2nd are ???’s & Im not that high on Schneider.
Fail. The Mets had the second-best offense in the NL last year. Here’s my rankings:
Starters – 7
Bullpen – 7 (8 if Putz is completely healthy)
Offense – 9
Defense – 8
Wow 2nd best offense in the NL.
How did we do it ???
- Mirrors
Where have I seen that before?
I guess it was only me that was frustrated at many times last season at our lack of run production.
What team’s offense doesn’t have holes? Even the Yankees have holes.
Pitching wins. You can never have enough of it.
Yes Pitching wins ,Yes you can never have enough of it, Yes to all that, now can we have Ramirez???
=)
Please???
No!
Pretty Please. We’ll be good. Won’t Boo him.
Well VCarter will But Manny shuts that sort
of stuff out anyway. So, Please.
BTW Yanks Offensive hole is a pin prick.
=)
yanks problem has been spotty SP,no BP
except for the great one,team can’t field
AND don’t hit in the clutch. Except for that,
They’re Great!
Plus, of course they are the yankees.
Dear Omar and Jeff and Fred,
Please don’t waste the dollars on Manny. (Yeah, I know you don’t plan to, but some idiots here on Metsblog keep whining about it.) Go after Marti and even offer Pedro a 1-year incentive laden contract.
Put any extra dollars into the pitching.
Happy New Year!
–VCarver
Okay, so since you don’t understand that
impact of an alltime great(still in his prime)
on an already above-average lineup AND
for whatever reason, you don’t like the guy
Those who do are idiots?
This from someone who wants to throw more
money at a guy(Pedro)who, while we all love
did almost nothing for this team the last three
seasons,is clearly past his prime and no lock
to give us a good month let alone year.
Anywho,Happy New Year to ya!
1. Manny is no longer in his prime. Productive? Yes, still. But he’s no longer in his prime and he’s at risk for a steep decline.
2. The money they should offer Pedro would be no more than about $6 million. Certainly not the $23 million it would cost to sign Manny. Apples and oranges.
3. It’s the pitching, stupid!
So, yes, I’m calling those of you pining away for Manny like little schoolgirls idiots!
Sounds like you’re lacking the Holiday Spirit.
I wouldn’t mind however,Omar bringing back
Pedro AFTER signing Lowe THEN Manny.
Did I mention, I’m all for us signing Manny?
I agree with fongulalou. I just dont see how signing manny would be a waste of money as vcarver said it would be. You may not agree with the signing, but if they do sign him he’s not going to be a waste. Just because you don’t agree with the decision’s the mets are making, doesnt mean that they are wasting the money they spend. And how do you figure that manny is a huge risk of decline. What has he showed you in the past few years that makes you think this? From what i can see all he did was single handedly bring the dodgers to the NLCS last year.
I agree as well. It simply doesnt matter if the guy is in his prime or not, because the guy is Manny Ramirez, an HOF. One thing an HOFer always is throughout his entire career is consistent. So Manny may not be in his prime, but at least hes consistent. Sorrowfully, Pedro isnt AS consistent as Manny.
Happy 2009!
True, Pedro is not as consistent as Manny, no argument there. However, I think Pedro is a Hall of Famer. So to argue for Manny simply because he is a Hall of Famer is also to argue for Pedro.
I’m sorry I didnt mention that. I certainly believe (and hope) that Pedro will be in the HOF. But my point point was that in terms of consistency, Manny over Pedro any day of the week. It doesnt compare anymore.
i would of said the same
Yankees offense at catcher is a big question mark since Posada can no longer catch.
Jeter is also in decline.
As is Matsui,Damon&Pettite(if he returns).
I doubt Pettite is coming back. He wants too much money. But, yeah, Damon and Matsui are in decline too. The point being the Yankees offense isn’t what it’s cracked up to be.
The Mets offense is probably on par with theirs right now.
But what you fail to understand is
They’re the yankees.
Uh, meaning what?
Meaning they came in third place last year while spending $220 million?
No,meaning they’re the yankees.
good and great.
Just trying to be PC, like our new President,
I’m not sure if we’re legally allowed to be critics of the good and great baseball team
which plays its home games in the bronx.
But lets face it really are Americas team.
You do love America,Don’t you?
LOL, and you call yourself a Mets fan?
You can’t really believe all that nonsense about the Yankees do you?
Tell me you’re just being facetious. Right?
Completely!-35 years a True Die-Hard
AND Die-Hard yankee Hater!
Anyway, Happy New Year and Safe Travels
to all my fellow Met Fans!
Even, The “idiots”.
Like it or not, Mets are clearly operating within a budget this year, like they always do, and quite frankly, after the Wilpons got bilked of $300M, I’m happy to hear the Mets are still looking to pony up for pitching. Adding Lowe and someone else to keep the #5 seat warm for Niese while nabbing a few extra arms off the scrap heap for the bullpen to compete with Feliciano and Duaner in middle inning roles would make me a much happier camper than signing Manny and forgetting those other pieces. I know fans here don’t want to accept either/or but it’s pretty clear that it is either/or so I’ll take pitching over the bat given it’s been 3 years running that this team has been done in by bad pitching (both starting and relief).
Well said, Constnza81v2.0!!
I’m holding out hope on Manny. However, if we were not to get him, we should still sign up at least on one of the bargain corner outfielders on the free agent market.
Please Philnym31, VCarter says stop talkin’
’bout Manny. We’re idiots for doing so.
Bring back Pedro, maybe Duque as a backup
plan. Oh, yeah then sign Alou for a year.
He’s due to stay healthy and have a breakout.
Manny needs to be priority number one after we sign Lowe.
Again, I know you’re a die-hard But we’ve
been warned. We sound like idiots for our
continued lusting after Manny.
But, errr, please Omar go sign Manny.
how old is alou again? like 40
Dear Santa,
All I want is to see “MY Mets” win a W.S. in 2009
so can you give the Wilpons whatever they need to make this possible even if it requires you pulling of a miracle of having Wilpons coming around and getting Manny for a blockbuster 1 year deal.
P.S. – Can you give Vcarver a Manny Jersey.
- Thanks
Too late, Santas already back at the north-
pole.No internet access and not taking requests until atleast after 3kings day.
No internet access?
bummer….
Snail Mail will have to do.
3kings day you must be latino. Jan 6 just round da corner
Not Latino But Latin.
Italiano si?
siato.
sabermetrician–sory i should have been more indepth that was the last playoff game we had and we didn’t show up offensively, and the last two years come to mind also, some times a certain player has carried us, but one can’t do it all…
Fact: Last year Mets scored 10 more runs than the Yankees despite not having a DH and playing in more of a pitchers park.
Fact: Last year the Yankees had 106 RBIs from the first base spot. Teixeira had 126. So he might have added maybe 20 to their production. Which when accounting for park factors and the DH, puts their defense on par with the Mets.
So how can they not have holes but the Mets do?
Also, their core is older than the Mets core so its at a bigger risk for decline in 2009.
Should read: “…puts their OFFENSE on par with the Mets.”
Meaning, even with Teixeira, their offense is probably no better than the Mets.
OK so is everyone understood? Vcarver wants you to know why Yankees have holes. I know I feel better now.
But your whole rationale for getting Manny is the Mets have bigger holes in the offense than anyone else. And you said the yankees’ holes were pinpricks.
That’s simply not true. So your rationale goes out the window!
V can I call you V?
I want to make this clear my only reason for wanting Manny is I believe we are a better team with him nothing more than that.
The pinprick comment yes you are accurate and after your reply to why it isn’t a pinprick I feel a whole lot better anytime you can make a case for Yanks not being that good I feel better.
Sorry Vcarver I should of noted that your right when you say I believe we have holes it’s just that I am not trying to compare them to anyone else that’s all.
He doesn’t fit the budget, nor the team’s desire to get younger and concentrate on pitching and defense.
Remember what I said about priorities and not getting everything you want?
Don’t you think Omar (and the Wilpons) have had enough of seeing older players doing nothing on the DL while drawing good money?
Bringing back Pedro might be an exception because he would cost less, it would be for just 1 year, he’s Pedro …. and because you can never have enough pitching.
Again vcarver, what makes you think that manny will be on the DL?
But its OK, They’re the yankees.
Hopefully, we will get Lowe next year before end of next week. Anyway Happy New Years to you all!!
Is Anna Benson a free agent?
Hey Vcarver
I get the feeling we are doing that famous Abott & Costello routine “Who’s on 1st? I don’t know…, Third Base.”
Evertime Manny is mentioned. LOL
Im done 4 day Happy New Year everyone. I’ll catch you next year.
Ha ha , Next Year.
A good one to you too, jersey. May you wake up from your drunken stupor next year to realize Manny is a pipe dream.
I agree with fongulalou. I just dont see how signing manny would be a waste of money as vcarver said it would be. You may not agree with the signing, but if they do sign him he’s not going to be a waste. Just because you don’t agree with the decision’s the mets are making, doesnt mean that they are wasting the money they spend. And how do you figure that manny is a huge risk of decline. What has he showed you in the past few years that makes you think this? From what i can see all he did was single handedly bring the dodgers to the NLCS last year..
The thing with Manny is, if he sign a contract lower that what he expected, remember this quote “the gas is up and so am I”, is he going to be happy with the contract? Now that the Gas is down. He might start with the same $h*t that he pull out in Boston, a guy that is been paid 20M a year and he is not happy because the gas went up $2.00, he was on the brink to be suspended, he let his team mates and fans down, he can hit but I don’t want him around, we have other options, and pitching is a priority.
SIGN MANNY RAMIREZ!!!
i agree pitching should be the number one priority, but besides the bullpen being a huge contributor to the collapse, clutch hitting was another. we have no idea what delgado or church are going to produce, and wright and beltran struggled in late inning situations. if church is the same as he was after the concussions, and delgado isnt what he was after the break, then our offense is in trouble. signing manny not only takes the pressure off of wright and beltran, but he is immune to feeling pressure and can hit in clutch situations. towards the end of the last two years we needed someone to step up at the plate and no one did. manny is the guy that will do that.
sign lowe already!
Happy New Years Guys! May we all take delight in the following:
1. Seeing the Mets win it all.
2. Watching the divsion clinching win.
3. Seeing K-rod celebrate on the mound of CBP after striking out Shane Victorino
4. David Wright Winning the tripple crown
5. Jose Reyes batting .315 with 40 SB
Matt I want to thank you Regis and the rest of the staff for all the Mets info and goodies that has been a part of my morning routine for the past three years
u forgot reyes having over 20 triples (cause of citi field)
our starters most of the time (besides santana)
got only 5 innings or 6
then there is more pressure in the bullpen
and even more pressure on the hitters
it all starts with good pitching that leads to good bullpen(less appearances then)
which then leads to good hitting
does anybody understand wht im saying!
Yup, that makes perfect sense but the manny lovers will see only what they want to see.
OUr team our time our 2009 nym
tht would be cool if the mets clinch the nl east against the marlins for payback
sign lowe
at 12 haha
hello>?
…………………………………
lets go mets
I didn’t really mean that signing Manny would be a waste of money — what I should have said is the money will be misspent if they sign him.
Pitching is the priority. I disagree that clutchness was an issue with the offense last year. It’s amazing how much more clutch the players will look if they don’t have to keep coming back from holes the bullpen puts them in. If the Phillies had the Mets bullpen last year … I doubt they would have looked very clutch. Better pitching also takes pressure off an offense so they can relax and come through more often.
As for a decline and/or injury regarding Manny, he’ll be 37 next year. It’s a fact that by that age, almost all major league position players are either on a steep decline OR are very prone to injury and fatigue. Bottom line is that production drops significantly. Just because Manny has escaped a big decline so far doesn’t mean he’s not at an increased risk for one. He is. He’ll likely sign for a minimum of 2 years at $23 mill/per so he’ll be a big risk for any club.
the kid murphy can play left field we need younger players like in 06
like julio franco?
we should get varitek
even tho thts not gonna happen
LoL, in one post you say they should get younger and then in another you say they should get Varitek?
Varitek is on the downside of his career. He’s a
Boris client who will ask for far more than he’s worth. I don’t want him.
i heard it on sny.tv
get lowe now!!!!!!!!
shorty get lowe lowe lowe lowe
hr apple with the mets with the mets
those strikes will be a blurr
shorty get lowe lowe lowe lowe
hahahahahah bored
Stop that. BTW, its “shawty”.
Regarding whether or not manny will decline…
I think that at 37 players do decline, but the one problem with what your saying is that manny hasnt showed any signs of declining. other players at that age who are declining had showed signs of it a year or two earlier. manny has given no proof to make an argument of a risk of injury or drop in production.
Regarding clutchness…
I agree that a team cant be clutch every single time especially when their bullpen keeps giving up the lead they worked hard to get, but for example in a game like the last one of the season in 07, everyone could tell that the team was tight and not relaxed. I realized the sho gave up the lead but it was early enough in the game where a team should have been able to come back. Every player was scared and manny helps in that regard.
How many times do you need to give up the lead, until your hitters start pressing?
There were too many games when you felt that they could not come back no matter how small the deficit was.
true, and manny would change that!
tek would be better than schneider….and tek would also be a leader and keep manny in check.
What a joke. Like he was able to keep Manny in check in boston? Keep dreaming.
“…other players at that age who are declining had showed signs of it a year or two earlier.”
Not true. There is no one single pattern that all players follow. Some fall off gradually … some fall off all of a sudden. But one thing is sure — by the age of 37, almost all position players not on PEDs have seen a significant decline or are on the verge of a big one. Sure, there are a very few exceptions, but the point is you never know. So given how much money you will be paying him and the fact he can be a headache too, signing him is a big risk.
” … but for example in a game like the last one of the season in 07, everyone could tell that the team was tight and not relaxed… . Every player was scared and manny helps in that regard.”
I disagree in the sense that when you KNOW your bullpen is pure $#^&$, how can you be relaxed and NO’T scared. I think the only thing the players were scared of was of their own bullpen.
Also, the pressure is cumulative. After your bullpen has given up the lead at least 29 times, how confident can you be even going into the last week of the season? It’s like — “hell, what’s the point of getting a lead? They’re just going to blow it.”
I will only be convinced they are not a clutch group if there is a decent pen and they STILL fail. Otherwise, I don’t buy it.
lol, are you kidding? the current mets lineup is FARRRRRRRRRR from clutch. manny would change that whole mindset.
No, I’m not.
then you didnt see all of the 1-2-3 and outsw…the inning ending DPs, etc. when the mets were behind, the fans AND the players knew it was a 95% chance the game was OVER.
I saw almost all the games. All teams have lots of 1-2-3 innings and inning-ending DPs when they are behind. The Mets didn’t have them any more than most other teams.
See, krodamet gets it …. even though he’s exhibited signs of having started on the champagne early!
Well, gotta go ring in the new year.
May you all have a very Happy New Year, even the misguided Manny lovers!
mets had 5 relievers in one inning
and the mets offence will go cause they have confidence in there pitchers.
and the pitchers will have confidence in there hitting
great pitching mets great hitting=success
like 06!
I love manny !! but as we all know to well our pitching (if u can call it that) last year was why we lost, so I say get lowe and wolf , xavier nady, eat castillo contract.sign hudson,and boy I hate shneider.
I’ll sign Lowe/Hudson, Castillo could became an expensive bench player until we can trade him or get hurt again, I’ll pay insurance in his case.
quality pitching leads to quality hitting
look the players can rely on reyes to get the team pumped
your a team so work as a team!
maybe the fans have to start it
citi field is gonna be loud (less seats more people filled)
confidents wins a championship
teamwork wins a championship
desire/heart wins a championship
vcarter ur right we dont need manny
we are capable winning this with out him
look the winter of 06 on paper we looked bad
but we worked as a team and we worked 100% and we won the nl east.
one player cant bring home a championship a team does.
bring 86 back mets bring 06 back too
ya gotta believe in 09
its not over till its over
bring that back because for the past two years i have lost faith when we were down by 1 or 2 going into the 6 inning
“ya gotta believe in 09″
-krodamet
ya gotta believe ya gotta believe in 09
happy new year everybody!
ya gotta believe
this year is our year
we crush the phillies we show the phillies why the heck we are still NL’s best.
11-7 against them isnt enough
we have to pound the nl east
spit in ther face
kick dirt in there eyes
grand slams
no blown saves
mets magic late
the hr apple rising every 30 sec
fans holding up santanas K’s
hits after hits after hits
blow out games
shut out games
no hitter games
3 hr in a game
In 09 i believe the mets are capable to do any thing and if you think the mets are “Ok”
then go check again…
“we are the team to beat”
now lets prove it
“ya gotta believe in 09″
-krodamet
happy new year
any way manny is talking to the dodgers so…….
tough luck mannyatics
hmm
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