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Tonight on the MLB Network’s Hot Stove Live, SI.com’s Jon Heyman said Derek Lowe rejected Omar Minaya’s three-
year, $36 million offer, because he is seeking $16 million per season.
According to Heyman, the Phillies and Braves are Minaya’s ‘biggest threat for Lowe,’ while the Red Sox and a ‘mystery team,’ like the Brewers, are showing interest as well.
Later in the show, Minaya was interviewed and acknowledged having interest in Lowe, as well as Randy Wolf, among other free-agent starting pitchers.
Oddly, Minaya didn’t mention Oliver Perez by name.
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Nice summary Matt. Also from Eddie Coleman on WFAN this afternoon the discussion was that Lowe also wants no less than 4 years.
well i honestly dont think hes getting 4 years…and i really dont think he will get 16 mil. per year
i see 3 years 14 per with a 4th year option
I agree 100%. This $16M per year number really quantifies how far apart the sides are with the Mets at $36M and if Lowe’s thinking $16M per year for 4 years = $64M. Ouch. A couple million here a couple million there and soon we’re talking real money….
My thought on the other thread agree’s with the 4th year option with numbers like 13.5, 14.5, 16 and option year 4 at 16. Put’s it at 44M for 3 + option at 16 get’s to the $60M neighborhood he’s looking for.
Are you kidding? With 6 teams in the hunt he is bound to get an extra year.
name me 6 teams that are in the hunt…and if there really are 6 teams i dont see anyone guarnteeing 4 years…..name 6 teams
Sorry, there are 4. The Mets, Braves, Phillies and Red Sox all are interested.
the phillies have shown interest
the braves have not shown interest
the sox already have 5 guys in their rotation
and none of these teams will give him 4 years 16mil..
i dont see the sox in it at all…they say the braves possibly because they wanted burnett..but they are two very different types of pitchers and burnettt is much younger……and the phillies will not spend that much.
Forget Lowe, SIGN MANNY!! and Ollie and Pedro…bring the boys back…and while I’m playing GM…trade Castillo and Muniz to St. Louis for Adam Kennedy, then flip Kennedy and Evans to Toronto for Scott Downs. Trade Schnieder to Baltimore for Ryan Freel and Brian Burres, and give Texas what it wants for Saltalamaccia or Teagarden outside of F-Mart…the Mets do that, and they win the World Series…if Manny is too expensive, then sign Bonds and Alou. Between the both of them, one should stay healthy and productive….I’d rather have Manny though.
and that is y u are PLAYING gm…thank god u are not a real one.
My teams win.
with boonds and alou??? ok
and u want pedro back? thats a great idea cuz he did soooo well last year..
“trade Castillo and Muniz to St. Louis for Adam Kennedy”, the cards would never do that…kennedy a young talented player – casillo an old bad pleyer…hmmm
“Trade Schnieder to Baltimore for Ryan Freel and Brian Burres” the orioles would never do that
and u kno bonds would be a great player and great influence on our team..being 45 and playing left field. and alou????? didnt we learn already???
so no u would not win
u will never be a gm – which is a very good thing – unless u wanna take the gm role for the phillies so the mets wouldnt have any competition
just stick to fantasy baseball…
Winning Fantasy baseball(and I do every year) doesn’t bring me the joy that seeing the Mets win would. I play Fantasy baseball because I’m a baseball fan. I don’t watch baseball because I play fantasy baseball.
they agree to split the difference:
not 12 not 16 = 14 mill per year
3 years plus option
No surprise here…I think it is clear that no one wants to make an offer to O.P. until either his asking price comes down or Lowe is off the market.
It seems the whole market is actively ignoring him for the time being.
Or there giving him an unintentional walk which is somehow fitting.
nice!
All I can say is don’t lose him to the Phillies or Braves or we are screwed…There gonna let 2 mil per year & 1 extra year lose this guy. I bet no one goes beyond 4 years/56 mil get it over with…
i like randy wolf, but not as a pitcher to take the #2 or 3 spot..if we get him id also like to see ollie or lowe…..i would be very happy with ollie and wolf
johan, pelf, ollie, wolf, maine
its a solid rotation
That would be solid and I could live with that too. What struck me this afternoon when channel surfing past MLBN showing Lowe on the Sawx vs. Yankee’s a few years ago is that we really have no player’s that have reached the World Series in their career’s. Outside of K-Rod who we just got I couldn’t think of any others. Typically, contending teams need to have some player’s on their roster who have gotten to the WS to help lead the way for the others. With this fresh in my head boy I hope they can get this Lowe thing settled.
I’m not really sure that matters. I don’t think the Rays or Phils had players (or key players) who have reached the WS prior to this season. This team just needs another Started (almost done) better bullpen (done), another OF bat, and a set of cajones.
True, and as I thought about it after I typed it having Floyd & Glavine didn’t help us much in ‘06 post season.
Glavine didn’t help us in the 06 postseason? You’re kidding, right?
I like it but because of the lefty righty thing it’ll go
Santana
Pelf
Ollie
Maine
Wolf
I also feel that if Maine returns to pre allstar break ‘07 form and pelfrey regresses even a little. The playoff rotation becomes
Johan
Maine
Ollie
Pelf
if we are talking about postseason rotations, i would much rather go with
santana
lowe
pelfrey
maine
or even sign another starter and move maine to the pen
This lowe guy is crazy he wants 16 million?are u serious he isn’t worth 16 million at all if anything I would give him 13 million that fair but if he wants 16 million tell him later no team is going to be foolish to pay that if so then hey goodluck with that.but I think the mets starter is like this santana maine pelfrey perez ben sheets if sheets get hurts u always got jon neise to fill that in or lowe over perez don’t matter but I def offer sheets a 1yr deal if he lives up to the job then sign him for 3 yrs next year can’t go bad there. And then for our offense because that wat need to be improve more I think even though we did good last year but we need a clutch hitter we got only a few. But my line up would reyes,hudson ,wright ,delgado beltran,dunn,beltran,brain I can live with that and get release luis that all and u have a good team world series they will go no brainer but they be stupid not to do that
I’ll take Lowe and Wolf. I really like Wolf as a 5th starter.
This would absolutely be ideal and would take the pressure off the kids like Niese and Parnell and give them time on the farm to mature.
Gina im sorry but your out of your mind everytime you post it seems like…. We arent getting Lowe and Wolf….. Its one or the other when it comes to those two and I dont think were gunna pay lowe 16 mil a year and I dont think he is worth that price anyway…. Lets get Wolf and Ollie save the money we woulda wasted on Lowe and then ill stretch reality and ask for Manny with the saved cash….. Our team really isnt good enough without another solid bat even with the improved bullpen and rotation….. Hudson would be a luxury not a necessity….. Getting rid of Castillo by any means is what we need to do…. My dream lineup would be as follows….
1. ss – Reyes
2. cf – Beltran
3. 3rd – Wright
4. rf – Manny
5. 1st – Delgado
6. lf – church
7. 2nd – Murphy
8. C – Castro
9. Pitcher
Santana
Maine
Ollie
Pelfrey
Wolf
and with Murphy and Delgado on the right side of the infield they would become a defensive liability.
Not to mention in LF with Manny as well.
Stop with this Manny crap.
He isn’t coming here….ever.
You my friend are out of your mind if you think Murphy will ever play 2B
Gina isn’t crazy, you are.
I am so sick of people talking about Manny…get off whatever you are on, man, Manny is NOT going to be a Met next year. And please explain to me logically why we couldn’t sign two of the three? Things have fallen into our laps before, so what’s to say it couldn’t happen again. I agree Lowe isn’t worth 16 mil…but I would definitely give him 14 mil with vesting option on the 4th year. I think it’s pretty clear that he’s the only available pitcher left (other than Mr. DL Ben Sheets) that can fill a top of the rotation spot, so what difference is 2 mil a year going to make?
and another thing i just noticed…wth would you put Church in LF and Manny in RF?
To do list: (in order of importance)
Must do:
Lowe
Wolf
Hairston
Ohman
Would be great to do:
LF – Castillo and Marlon for Rowand, then sign Hudson?
C – trade for Molina from the Giants then dump Schneider on the Red Sox
What makes you think the Giants want 2 washed up players in their mid 30’s for an excellent defensive outfielder?
Geeezzzz……..
I’m not saying they would, I listed them as possibilities only. I know the Giants are trying to dump payroll to go after Manny, and we are one of those teams that can afford to take on that kind of contract without blinking. Our garbage would go back to them because of the excess of outfielders on the FA market right now and his high salary. There might need to be a prospect or two thrown in there, but that’s the nuts and bolts of the deal: Marlon and Castillo for Rowand. We get rid of 2 players we desperately need to be free from and a LF we could really use. We free up 2b to bring in Hudson. The Giants need a 2b and haven’t shied away from using aging players there in the past. They also need the salary relief to go after Manny. Yes we might need to toss them a prospect or two (nothing major, just something to pacify the fans), but the deal works for both teams if they are serious about moving Rowand and are okay with Limpy playing 2b for them.
Wow…Marlon and Castillo for Rowand. Why don’t we trade them Cancel for Lincecum while we’re at it?
And why does everybody want Molina? He will turn 35 next season, so at best he has 2 good years left in him. Then what do we do? Trade for another catcher? We have nobody in our system that is anywhere close to being ready for the MLB at catcher, so why on earth would we dump a 32 year old catcher who has played about 300 less games than Molina, only to be in the same situation again as early as next offseason?
dwright – molina, as well as schieder only have one year left on their contracts, we will be looking for a catcher next year either way….joe mauer anyone?
plus he is a right handed bat, which would in turn give us more options (a left handed hitter) (dunn abreu etc) to play left
i dont think mets are gonna get lowe…i have a bad feeling we will lose him to someone else..
i am also worried but if the phillies or braves (especially the phillies) are the team about to land lowe then i guarantee you Omar will up his offer. But i am worried about some sleeper team offering him the 4th year guaranteed and i dont think Omar is not offering that to him. If Lowe is going to to be in the NL east he will be a met but he might not be in the NL east
If Derek Lowe is making you worry then you have a pathetic existence.
rod – why would you take time out of your life to tell people they have a pathetic existence….get a life buddy
and im not saying it to start an argument..i want lowe as much as everyone else…i just think they will lose out on him…because if you think about it.being a mets fan is basically having your baseball life screwed up and agonized..and we made nice moves this offseason…i just dont see us getting lowe
I understand your logic and where you are coming from as a fellow Met fan. But, until they fail to land him I will continue to believe this is the off season that finally changes it all. So far everything has fallen right into the Met’s laps. I see it that way as far as Lowe as well.
i hope you are right…im also hoping and believing too..and i hope you are right..lol…
……….coming from the guy who still insists we will get manny……
who me?..ive given up on that…i havent been on here for a while not to mention havent mentioned him so..
haha im kidding man sorry…been a boring couple of weeks with no baseball i just want thing to get done, but i will have to be patient
…true…sadly…
I see things 2 ways:
1) Lowe and Boras eventually meet a patient Omar in the middle at 14 mil for 3 years plus club option because no other team in this economy will give 16 mil for 4 years to a #3 starter. Lowe is just trying to wiggle 6 million more out of the Mets.
2) If the Braves or Phillies are stupid enough to give Lowe 4 years at 16 mil, then I’ll be fine to go after sheets, perez and/or wolf. Lowe is not worth 16 million.
How do you decide a player’s value? Are you the god of mlb paychecks?
Do you not understand basic economics?
it is nice that there are more options if lowe becomes too selfish..better do something..im getting really really bored…i wish it was baseball season already..lol…im getting a little antsy over here..lol..
does anyone know what kind of deal sheets wants? i mean just because he gets injured often doesnt mean we cant still go after him..take a look at his stats…they are very good
Lowe’s not worth $16M a year. We’d be better off getting Hudson and Wolf for roughly the same money. And at 35 years old, you can’t be giving a pitcher 4 years guaranteed. Want to make the 4th year contingent on say 180 innings in the third year or 360 between 2 AND 3, perhaps, but not guaranteed. Let the Phillies take him. A solid lefty starter is probably more valuable to the Mets anyway. I’d be going Perez/Wolf/Lowe/Sheets/Garland for precisely those reasons.
get lowe already
I think the Mets can and will up the $$$ to Lowe but will not offer him an additional year unless it is in the team option category. Watching the report, the word “mystery” kept coming up. Whether it was Milwaukee or Boston. I doubt the Red Sox will give Lowe 4 yrs and 16 mil for a guy that will be their #3 or #4 pitcher. Philly might move in. I would be surprised if Atlanta did. Milwaukee might but if Lowe wants the east coast, that won’t work. I think this is typical Boras BS.
I can’t fault Omar’s tactics here. He is doing his job perfectly so far. He has gotten his targets without giving up too much cash or any impact players. He will get Lowe. And after that I’m sure he won’t be done revamping this roster. He is on a mission and I’m impressed by it.
In Omar we trust. Put his picture on the $20 Metsmoney bill.
If you trust Omar you must be a fan of choke jobs.
Yeah because Omar is the one who has choked in the clutch the last two seasons…wow
i believe Omar is not going to sign Lowe and we will have to settle for just Wolf (as we have upset ollie with arbitration). Hudson would not be a bad try but I doubt he will be healthy. I would try to trade Castillo and GET RID OF MARLON….. he is one of the worst mets EVER
If we don’t get Lowe at our price then we won’t be settleling for something else. If we overpay for Lowe then he loses all of his value as we are stuck with probably two or maybe even three down hill years from him. When you have several other pitchers out there still available, and one of them (Sheets) is better, than all the cards are on our side. Specially if the competion won’t go that high in terms of money / years either.
Lowe is not worth overpaying for. He is old. He’s been great the last four years, absolutely. But we are talking about the NEXT FOUR, and he’s going to hit a wall at some point.
Sheets on a two year deal is a better value with more upside.
Exactly GBS. If he comes, he comes at our price or slightly above. Take your time Omar. If you pull too hard and too fast you might just break the line and let the fish get away. Reel him in slow and at your pace.
where would omar be without your guidance? Thanks for keeping the postseason afloat!
I am with you on Sheets for two reasons.
The first is that he is better than Lowe when healthy and he is healthy more than people think. If he gets hurt, we have Niese to come up and spot start. Sheets is Ace material when he is on and having that with Santana, Maine, Pelfrey and Wolf (or even Pedro, reluctantly, if finances demand it) would be sick.
Secondly, it would pull the carpet out from under Lowe. We put all the pressure on Boras as everyone knows we need one, if not two starting pitchers, right now. I don’t know if we would have the cash to do both of them, but with the Mets out of the bidding, I doubt Lowe gets better than 3/36 from the Phils or the Braves. It MIGHT make having Sheets and Lowe or Sheets and Ollie possible.
If we are going to pay Lowe 4/15 (even with a fourth year option), why not sign Sheets and then coyly hang around the Lowe market.
If we could sign Sheets for 2/24 and then Lowe or Ollie to a 3/40, that would equal what Lowe wants right now. Admittedly, I don’t know what Sheets is looking for.
I could be very happy with:
Santana
Sheets
Ollie/Lowe
Maine
Pelfrey
If not Ollie/Lowe we should have money for:
Santana
Sheets
Maine
Pelfrey
Wolf
Niese at Triple A. After three starts, it is too early. Remember when everyone was clamoring for Pelfrey to be given the fifth starter spot outright in
2007. It was too early and was a disaster. Give the kid some time to develop with spot starts here and there.
sheets gets hurt
get lowe!
Everyone knows Sheets is a stud, if and when healthy. He started 31 games last year, 55 in the past 2 seasons, though I know he gets lumped into the Mark Prior category by most (or is that the Pedro/El Duque catagory?) and he’s automatically deemed brittle. He also pitched 5 complete games in 2008, 2nd in the NL to teammate Sabathia. You get a team like the Mets who’ve built up bullpen depth and don’t have to work him like a mule, and he may prove more durable going forward. If Omar isn’t at least requesting medical records and fully looking into him, then he’s a fool.
lowe wants to go to a contending team!
So why are we talking about him on a mets blog if he wants to go to the phillies. jkjkjkjkjkjkjk
You sir are a brave man for that……..lol.
dont be talking about the mets if ur a mets fan ya stick with ur team not like the phillies who are on the bandwagon
First of all I HATE boras (mlb players are overpaid as it is), there’s no reason the mets should be bidding against themselves with lowe and a guaranteed 4th year on a pitcher at that age is just plain stupid. Just look at Pedro’s and Glavine’s final year drop offs with the mets.
Aside from the final start, Glavine’s last year with the mets wasn’t that bad. It wasn’t $16m worth, but not terrible.
revisionist history. He made OP look consistent.
Good night my fellow fans. Let’s hope for some good news tomorrow. Laterz.
Glavine and Pedro are 2 absolutely perfect reasons not to budge on 4 years instead of 3.
I agree with the premise that 3 years is better than 4 for Lowe, but Glavine and Pedro are not good comparisons. Both of those 2 had to change their style, Glavine because the strike zone ’shrunk’ due to Questec and Pedro because he lost his fastball due to age and injuries. Lowe doesn’t have to change his style, he just has to keep throwing ground balls, which he’s accustomed to. Lowe is a much safer play at this stage than either of those 2 where when they were acquired.
How about Wagner?
I guess we should sign Lowe to a 50 year contract then.
The point is this fellas. The Braves and the Phillies aren’t going to pay him 16 mil per either and Minaya knows that. He has a good gauge as to what the market for Lowe is and 4 years 16 per isn’t it. If that was the case those same 2 teams would have offered Burnett the same money as the Yankees at 16.5 per. I am no Burnett fan but the man has filthy stuff who can strike someone out when he is in a pinch. Lowe for all his success needs a good defense and the ball to be hit in the right direction to get out of the same jam. The fact that Boras actually made the number 16 known is proof that he doesn’t have anything close to that yet. His highest offer is probably the Mets one of 3 for 12. He said 16 to get the word out to Minaya that you need to go up a bit or he will go somewhere else for 3 for 13. Minaya is smart not to bud against himself and over pay for a 3rd starter. There are WAY too many other options out there that are cheaper for him to Yankeefy an offer. Heck John Garland will give u 200 innings and cost you way less. Omar is doing the right thing and waiting this out. He is the buyer. He has the power cause without the Mets money Lowe isn’t getting diddly squat.
Fellas and Ladies didn’t mean to discriminate.
oops BID not BUD
If the Phils and Braves are truly interested in Lowe, then it stands to reason they are also looking at Ollie, who’d cost less. I’m happy to see Ollie go if he must–but not to a division rival. If the Mets get Lowe, then maybe Ollie ends up in Atlanta or Philly. That kinda makes me nervous.
I mean ryan church I did a typo my fault in that lineup
Does Boras own some bizarro franchise in a parallel dimension? That might explain while every single solitary player he represents is at some point pursued by a “mystery team.”
Boras and Lowe can shove it you know where. Let the Braves give him $16MM for 4 years and keep finishing no higher than 3rd.
Look… Give him $45 for 3 with an club option of $10 m for year four with over 150 innings or a $5 m opt out if achieving over 200 innings; other wise he gets to be a free agent. (in case an injury or retirement happens)
It’s his $15 p/year he wants and gives him a chance to take money from us if he preforms and leave if he thinks he worth more.
I dislike high buyouts like that, which basically force the team to pick up the option.
Otherwise the basic premise is flawed in that they are offering $50 mil over 3 years which is way too much for him right now.
In order for the Mets to get thier discount Lowe has to be worth retaining in the 4th year. You need to stack the option year so its a more cost/performance related decision rather than a recouping thier losses type of decision.
Let’s not get too antsy here folks. We are in the dealership right now and the guy is trying to tell us that a bunch of other people have been looking at the car today, and it’s the last one of its kind on the lot. What’s more, some of them are coming back later to buy it for more than we are offering! How dare they!
That’s what Boras does folks. He lies. He lies a lot. Just a couple of weeks ago in fact, he was telling the public that Teixeira was the best client he’s ever had, short of A-Rod, for going for the money, and then what does Tex do? He takes less money to play for the Yankees because the Nats money isn’t good enough for the lying hypocrite.
We aren’t leaving until the deal gets done. This is our deal and it will get done on OUR terms, not Scott Boras’. Omar might not be the perfect GM, but he can certainly negotiate a contract without screwing it up one would think. If Lowe does in fact fly for LESS than we wanted to pay, THEN let all heck break loose against Omar, because he will deserve everything we can throw at him. But until then, let him do his job, because he is working right now.
Our pen was the problem just fix that with 1 more good reliever and 1 more starter and then fix our offfense add two more good bats like dunn and hudson and we should go to the playoffs with ease
since the offseason is being really drawn out (thanks scott boras) and boring, i started to think of my favorite moments from the 08 season
my favorite moment has to be when delgado hit the 2 strike 2 out 2 run double off of romero in the 8th, wright pumping his fist when he crossed the plate pumped me up so much!
can anyone else think of their favorite 08 moments?
My favorite moment was when they fired Willie I only wish it would have happened before the season started.
My favorite moment of 2008 was when Delgado had that monster game in the Bronx. That was the start of his comeback and really kept the Mets in the run. I think he should have been named MVP. Although the Mets did not end up in the postseason they were only that close because of Delgado’s heroics.
primetime2891
You are so right about Delgado this is key in 2008. My fear is which Delgado in 09 the pre or post Bronx series?
html tags work here?
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It’s time to move on from Lowe as it doesn’t appear likely the Mets are going to put up the money and it appears very likely that another team will. Either Omar or the fans or the media misunderstood the market for him, but the fact remains, there is demand and $12m/3 years isn’t even close. I don’t get the sense the Mets are interested in going any further, so that could be that.
On to Ollie, right? Well, I bet the Mets low ball on him, too and get burned by Boras and another team.
Randy Wolf, come on down!
That would be ultra disappointing and make me wonder just what the Mets are thinking. Three starters (one in his second full season and another coming off surgery) are not enough. The Mets have to do something to shore up that rotation. I don’t get it.
Lowe is not worth 16 million per or he would already have it by the Evil Empire. He is 36 and is trying to get his final payday. Also, the Vampire (Scott Boras) doesn’t want Lowe’s value lessened because then Ollie and his other pitchers would be devalued. I said this a while ago, but I still think Ben Sheets and John Garland are the way to go. The rotation would be Santana, Maine, Sheets, Pelrey and Garland. Plus, you give Niese more time at AAA and could use him in case of injury or sign one a guy like Pedro if need be.
Spot on.
I wouldn’t mind them trading K-Mart for Peavy either if they could pull it off.
Garland is as good as any another back end rotation guy in the league, which is to say not that good. Sheets is always injured. I wouldn’t stake the season on those two.
Face it, the rest of the free agent pitchers left arent that good. Why give up 3-4 years for a soon to be 36 year old.
Or sign a guy with a history of injuries?
Or a guy who is extremely erratic?
GO FOR GARLAND!!!
just don’t think you are getting much from him. thinkn about it, he’s 29, a free agent, and has basically no demand. what does that tell you?
so basically we need two of the following:
lowe
ollie
sheets
wolf
garland
redding
marquis (through trade)
How about a guy like Brad Penny? Want to REALLY make a splash? Let’s make a push for Smoltz. That’s the kink of move I’d like to see! Improve ourselves at the expense of one of our biggest rivals!. He might not be ready for the start of the season, so that might scare Omar off. I’d still look into it though. Why not if you’re going to consider a guy like Sheets anyway?
red sox signed penny…
uh yeah penny is with the sawx and smoltz may be out til june – unless my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning i’d say u are being very sarcastic warrior lol
Hey la grande orange jr, what’s going down?
Kevin Kernan in the Post today suggests Ollie to Yanks in Andy’s slot. Interesting.
I had actually forgotten that Penny had signed with the Sox, but my Smoltz reference was sarcastic. There is no way that I think that the Mets should consider Sheets for the #2 spot in the rotation. He has shown nothing that indicates he is capable of being counted on in a role of that magnitude. This is NY, not Wisconsin. Different crowd here.
It could be an interesting way to get 35 starts and 230 IP but at what cost?
If we’re talking 15 for Sheets and 10 for Smoltz well then they should have just signed Sabathia. He’ll put up those numbers by himself.
After the last three years I am tired of relying on injured players and guys returning from injuries. So I have a real bias against this, but it isn’t unreasonable if Lowe goes elsewhere.
CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
BTW WHAT TEAM HAVE U PEOPLE BEEN FOLLOWING? CERTAINLY NOT THE NY METS OWNED BY THE WILPONS. #1) WILPONS AREN’T AS CHEAP AS EVERYONE PORTENDS, HOW COULD THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST PAYROLL IN NL IF THEY WERE? #2) FRED WILPON IS A PRODUCT OF THE DEPRESSION AND AS SUCH DOES NOT PAY OUT GOOD MONEY WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT RETURN, THUS NO BUYOUTS & NO LUXURY TAXES. THAT SETTLED PUT THIS BRAVES/PHILLIES CRAP TO BED IF U CONSIDER LOGIC: BRAVES NEVER DEAL WITH BORAS PHILLIES BELIEVE WE’RE CATCHABLE AS IS & HAVE FINISHED THEIR MAJOR UPGRADING WITH IBANEZ OVER BURRELL. HELL, THERE WAS SPECULATION THEY WOULD DEAL HOWARD RATHER THAN PAY HIM MORE THAN 10M IN ARBITRATION. BOSTON DOESN’T VALUE LOWE AS MUCH AS SCRIBES BELIEVE & LOWE KNOWS IT. THEY INKED PENNY FOR A REASON KNOWING LOWE WAS OUT THERE. BREWS ARE ONLY REAL THREAT & BORAS KNOWS HIS FUTURE IS IN MET DEALS NOT BREW DEALS. LAST I SAW MILWALKEE WAS FAR AWAY FROM EAST COAST LOWE PREFERENCE. 3/37 WAS AN OPENNING BID NOT A TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT. IT’S INTENTION WAS TO SIZE UP THE COMPETITION. ONLY COMPETITIVE BIDS ARE ALL IN BORAS’ IMAGINATION. 12.25M IS PERFECT LEVEL TO FLUSH OUT LOOKY LOUS KICKING TIRES WHO WON’T GO INTO TEENS IN THIS MKT. FORGET SHEETS HE’D BE PEDRO PART DEUX AT BEST, GOOD IN SEASON DISAPPEARING ACT LATE & POST SEASON. WE DON’T NEED THAT AGAIN. OUR OWNER INSISTS UPON CHARACTER NOT CHARACTERS,THUS JUST SAY NO TO MANNY. HE’D PREFER LOSING WITH DIGNITY TO WINNING WITH CONTROVERSY. SEE BKLYN DODGERS V. NY YANKEES CIRCA 50s.
Well said, and I think spot-on!
this may be the best call i have read on here .. now enough with this low balling and get down to business
you really dont like sheets though? it would be a different story than with pedro, and the brewers pen was as bad as the mets last year, which put a lot of pressure on sheets to perform, but he is an absolute beast
the brewers were arguably as good as anyone last year with a healthy sheets and cc heading their rotation — i would take sheets in a heartbeat
43 days til pitchers and catchers….
let’s get it on!
All good points. Except we’re trying to catch the Phillies based on their winning the division the past 2 years and WS last year.
i really hope we get ollie back..i mean im just thinking back to last year and thinking about how dominant he was against the phills..and once willie left and peterson, he was a very different pitcher. i understand he has off days but he is only 27 and will most likely improve..if his price is alright, i really hope we go for him
im with you bro
If Lowe is asking for 16 million and the Mets are offering 12 million, I believe they’ll come to agreement at a middle ground of 14 million.
fans are so naive. Lowe wants $16M per year just like the Mets though he would sign a 3 year $36M contract. it is a cat and mouse game. Mets will get Lowe for $14.5M for 3 years with a mutual option for a 4th year.
the fact that no one has even offered OP a contract shows how weak the market is. my only fear with OP is that the Braves or Phils sign him and he comes back to haunt the Mets for years to come.
for some reason i think the yankees are gunna get ollie…i really think the phillies are done with big moves this year…but i dont kno about the braves..i dont think they will pay up too much for a pitcher like ollie
If the Yankees sign Ollie. i think i would officially hate them for good. i wish we could resign Ollie i think i am one in a few that think he will become a consistent starter for good. warthen changed him and it was all for the good. but i am not saying we shouldn’t sign Lowe. we should just forget about Manny and a left field bat and sign both Ollie and Lowe and there you got a rotation that can match up against almost any team. Murphy will be the gritty /good hitter we need in left. we need to live with Castillo at second and hopefully we can get a good power hitting bench player. it seems the Manny going to the Mets talks have cooled down thank god.
i completely agree..i started to see a new side of ollie last year… a more consistant side..I can defenitely see him being a solid #2 starter in a couple years.
it would be a huge mistake taking Lowe and then a guy like garland wolf or Redding. because god forbid Ollie goes to the braves phillies or yanks, it would be a nightmare for us, especially if hes a brave or Philly. just the fact that hes so tough on lefties makes me shiver if he had to vs us. his slider would make Delgado tumble and roll back into the dugout
Why should Omar just throw “Burnett” money at Derek Lowe? Is anybody else?
If he is worth that kind of money, why hasn’t he received that offer? Burnett and Sabathia signed almost a month ago, Lowe was next in line. The only reason it has spilled into January is because Lowe’s demands are not in line with what his possible suitors have gauged his value at. The only thing he can do is wait, and hope a higher offer comes in. But the man is going to be 36 years old for crying out loud, 16-18 million a year? For Derek Lowe? A lifetime #3 starter? Maybe last year, but in my opinion NEVER this year.
For years, the players have had the upper hand in negotiations, the economy was inflated and for a proven FA there were generally multiple teams bidding for their services. It was a SELLERS MARKET. Let’s also be honest here, prices across the board have been grossly inflated since the Feds lowered interest rates after 9/11 Anyone remember gas prices the past few years? Home values at their peak in 2005?
Open your eyes and look around at today’s economy. I realize Carlos Silva got a ridiculous deal last year, but that was last year and there were ZERO free agent starters available. That’s why the Mets waited until Feb on Santana.
The bottom line here is that today’s free agent market place is a BUYERS MARKET. Many possible free agents, and less teams able to spend the kind of money it will take to land them.
After Derek Lowe, there are many other quality starting pitchers available so if Lowe wants to balk at the Mets offer, they can just move on to another FA. Where will Derek Lowe go if he loses the Mets?
Bottom line, this can only mean one thing for a guy like Derek Lowe. He can say he wants 16 mill a year and that he considers himself a “Far superior” pitcher to Carlos Silva; but if no team out there offers it to him he will be forced to accept the Mets lowball offer, which may very well wind up being the highest offer on the table at the end of the day.
You can call the Mets cheap all you want, and if another team sneaks in and offers more money I will consider myself wrong on this. But I think Omar Minaya is doing a great job of reading the market place and not bidding against himself.
Think of it this way, if you were involved in an auction for the car of your dreams and placed a bid. Would you raise that bid if no one else came in to offer more? You would want to get it for the best price possible right?
Well it’s the same thing here, regardless of what writers in the papers say or people on blogs write.
Omar Minaya is showing his savviness in negotiations and reading the market place for what it is. He is not allowing anyone or any “Opinions” to sway him from his position. I think ultimately you may see a vesting option for a 4th year and the yearly value slightly increased, but only if Scott Boras is able to entice any competition. Otherwise, you may see Lowe sign for the initial offer probably holding out until right before spring training. Just like Boras did with Kyle Lohse last offseason.
I also have a weird feeling that the Mets may stun us all by signing both Derek Lowe and Oliver Perez. I think it’s very possible and would be a great move, but only if the price is right.
the only reason Lowe considers the east coast teams is because his family lives on the east coast ( florida )…
that makes the Braves the most logical choice. They have the money, they are the closest..they have a decent team, lowe already has a ring…he has zippo chance at the hall of fame..if he wanted a chance at another ring, he would take a few less to play for a contender..right now..the yanks, mets, phils, all need a starter and all fit that bill ( contender, east coast )
“But my line up would reyes,hudson ,wright ,delgado beltran,dunn,beltran,brain I can live with that”
If they let us bat beltran twice we don’t even need Dunn.
Based on CHONE’s projections over the next four years, Lowe’s value will be:
2009 $15.5 mil
2010 $14.8
2011 $14.2
2012 $13.4
If you could sign Lowe to a three year contract for $40 mil, with a fourth year vesting option worth $15mil , you’d be doing great. Or even a 3/$42 with a $14 mil vesting option
I don’t think we need overpay for Lowe either. I’m not seeing any other offers on the table yet. Boras might be trying to drum some up but until they become known, I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
That being said, the longer this drags on, the longer it’ll be until the go after a 5th starter – if that’s even their plan. That could become a problem….
I’m in the camp of really wanting to see both Lowe and Ollie signed but I’ll bet that’s a long shot.
Yeah, I think Lowe and Ollie is out of the picture. I still think Lowe and Wolf is do-able, but as you mention the longer we drag this out the tougher a 5th starter becomes.
if we finally sign lowe,who would your prefer to be our 5th starter, garland or wolf?
I think wolf would a better addition because he is letfhanded and will pro cost less.
I think Wolf is a better addition as well. Wolf, as well as being a left hander, has shown more recent success. His time with the Astros was very effective.
Wolf as well over Garland. If they do sign Lowe, I’d still take a look at Sheets though….
The latest…
Jon Heyman reports the Braves, Phillies, and Red Sox and perhaps the Brewers and Angels are all expressing interest in Derek Lowe.
I wonder if this is more of a scare tactic because as far as anyone knows, no other offer has been put on the table other than from the Mets.
The Mets are like 20 million under last year’s total right now…If Lowe wants 16…the Mets still need to figure out a Lefty reliever, 5th starter, LF, and hopefully do something about 2B and Catcher…Ollie and Pedro combined would probably cost 16 million…I’d rather have Ollie and Pedro, and MANNY…if the Mets were able to flip Castillo for Downs, Schnieder for Freel, and aquire Salty or Teagarden that’d save them 3 million towards this year which means that adding Manny on top of everything would only bring the Mets around 14 million over last year’s total…a modest raise considering what they’ve put us through the last two years and the opening of Citifield.
Are you joking? 16M for Pedro and Ollie is a bigger waste than 6m on Castillo. They’ll either get Lowe and a low risk / low reward guy or miss out on Lowe and have to get 2 out of Ollie/Garland/Wolfe/Sheets. Me, personally, I’d go for option #2. It always seems that pitchers find a feel good story when they come here. I’d love to sign Sheets, Garland, AND Wolfe and keep an extra guy as a fallback option…hopefull thinking ofcourse, but I’d go for pitching pitching and more pitching over any other improvements.
The payroll can go up- this team’s revenues are soaring.
Good, I want Sheets too…
to be fair, the team is spending a half billion dollars for citi and will be paying for it (via debt service) for 20-30 years or more. so, while revenues are going up, so are expenses.
to also be fair the mets are getting 20 million for the next 20 years from citi (thats 400 million total for for non mathematicians) so revenue will increase and they wont be paying for most of it.
why would the blue jays wanna flip Downs, who had like a 1-something ERA last year for Castillo, who at this point of his career is deadweight, until proven otherwise… and we’d have to give up a lot for Salty or Teagarden.. and look at the past couple of years.. between Yadier Molina(2006 edition) and Carlos Ruiz, it’s proven that you can win with a defensive catcher. And I still would like to see what Murph can do, although i’d like to add a offensive outfielder whose initials arent MR. However, if there’s any position i’d like to see addressed, i think 2B would be top priority.
I don’t know why my reply didn’t go through, I’ll send in pieces…
Odd that you should mention the Cardinals and Phillies as having purely defensive Catchers…if you recall it was Yadier who sent the Cardinals to the World Series with a big time homer in 2006…and Yadier is like the best defensive Catcher in the game; Schneider isn’t in his league defensively. As for the Phillies, Chris Coste was arguably their World Series MVP….Do you see Schneider ever hitting a big time home run like that? Or putting up MVP type of contributions in a post season series?
I wasn’t suggesting sending Castillo to Toronto because that doesn’t really make sense for Toronto. I was suggesting sending Castillo to St. Louis along with Carlos Muniz for Adam Kennedy which in my opinion makes an abundance of sense for St. Louis. Then taking Kennedy, packaging him with Nick Evans, and sending the two of them over to Toronto for Scott Downs. I feel it makes sense for Toronto because Downs is owed about 4 million this year as is Kennedy so they wouldn’t be adding payroll. They have a real strong bullpen even with out Downs, and they upgrade Second Base, and have a lot of options with Evans who’s a bright young player.
It’d be nice adding Ryan Freel at Second Base for Brian Schneider, eh? What do you think it’d take to get one of Saltalamaccia or Teagarden? Jon Niese, Eddie Kunz, and Shawn Bowman I think is a more than fair package. I’d even swap out Bowman for Jennry Marte if they wanted. Bottom line is the Mets have the parts in the system to acquire one of them, and not give up F-Mart doing so. I’d think upgrading Catcher and securing a Catcher for the future would be a priority for a competent GM in the Mets current position.
I for the life of me don’t understand how anyone can call them self a Mets fan, and not want Manny Ramirez. Manny Ramirez = World Series…it’s that simple…if you don’t want to see the Mets prosper, why even bother pretending to be a fan? Seriously, that’s messed up. If you love the Mets, it stands to reason you’d want to see them succeed. Well, signing Manny Ramirez all but a$$ures their success….if not ultimate success…Mets gotta sign Manny. Got to.
then y didnt the dodgers make the world series if manny = world series
lol, the Dodgers didn’t make the World Series because they didn’t have Santana, F-Rod, Putz, Pelfrey, Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Delgado, etc….
Interesting that Buster Olney seems to think that Lowe is till targeting a five year deal. If he is trying to hold out for a four year deal with a fifth year option I think he’s going to have a hard time finding a suitor. The Mets would be well served to offer him 3/$42 with a fourth year option that vests pretty easily and is fairly high.
*till = still
2009
Sign D. Lowe to 3 years, 42 million
Sign B. Sheets to 2 years, 15 million
Sign T. Redding to 1 year, 6 million
J. Niese works in minor leagues
Rotation:
J. Santana
D. Lowe
M. Pelfrey
B. Sheets
J. Maine
Sixth starter=T. Redding
———————————————-
Trade N. Evans & R. Castro to Toronto for S. Downs
Bullpen:
F. Rodriguez
J. Putz
S. Downs
D. Sanchez
S. Green
P. Feliciano
B. Parnell
———————————————-
Trade R. Church to Cleveland for K. Shoppach.
Move Murphy/Tatis platoon to right.
Sign A. Dunn to 2 years, 17 million
Lineup:
J. Reyes
L. Castillo
D. Wright
C. Delgado
C. Beltran
A. Dunn
D. Murphy/ F. Tatis
K. Shoppach/ B. Schneider
Pitcher
————————————–
Resign D. Easley to 1 year, 1.5 million
Bench:
D. Murphy/F. Tatis
K. Shoppach/B. Schneider
D. Easley
J. Reed
That’s horrible.
how is that horrible
The pitching is good, but Adam Dunn is a bum, you traded away our best offensive Catcher, and our Outfield defense is in shambles. Not to mention you have Castillo batting Second…and we’d need to sign Easley…
Your team would probably cost the same as my desired team, and my team is light years better than yours….
1)SS – Jose Reyes
2)CF – Carlos Beltran
3)1B – Carlos Delgado
4)LF – Manny Ramirez
5)3B – David Wright
6)RF – Ryan Church
7)C – Salty/Teagarden
8)2B – Daniel Murphy
Johan, Pelfrey, Pedro, Ollie, Maine
F-Rod, Putz, Downs, Green, Feliciano, Sanchez, Stokes
Castro, Freel, Tatis, Reed, (either)Vizquel or Easley
I put Pedro in the 3 spot because I’d like to split him and Maine up….although I certainly wouldn’t mind Ben Sheets in that rotation…ideally we could trade Maine for Teagarden or Salty straight up, and replace him with Sheets in the ro-ro….that’d be amazing.
I just want to see it in type –
1)SS – Jose Reyes
2)CF – Carlos Beltran
3)1B – Carlos Delgado
4)LF – Manny Ramirez
5)3B – David Wright
6)RF – Ryan Church
7)C – Saltalamaccia or Teagarden
8)2B – Daniel Murphy/Ryan Freel
Johan, Sheets, Pelfrey, Ollie, Pedro
F-Rod, Putz, Downs, Green, Feliciano, Sanchez, Parnell
Castro, Tatis, Murphy/Freel, Reed, Easley or Vizquel
Damn…that’s a sexy team….
True, our best offensive catcher is traded away, but we get Shoppach, who hit more home runs last year (21) than Castro has ever hit in one year in his entire career. Also, Shoppach is better defensively than Castro, so we easily make up for his loss. And Adam Dunn is not a bum, unless you consider five straight seasons of 40+ home runs bum-like.
If I’m gonna trade either Castro or Schneider, I’d trade Schneider. The Indians have no room or desire for Church so that trade wouldn’t happen anyway. As for Dunn…puke. He’s garbage. He went 1000+ at-bats with out a sac fly at one point….the guy is a losing ball player, and I won’t No part of him. Ever.
want*
How so?
complete fantasy to get all that done. we’ll be lucky with to get one of those things done, all of which are long shots.
This is what I am hoping for, not what I think will happen. Also, I don’t see how it is a “Complete Fantasy” for Derek Lowe to sign with the only team who has made an offer to him, as well as the team who has courted him since the beginning of the offseason.
so u think we can sign lowe, sheets, dunn redding and easily….wow
Did I ever say it would be easy? And anyway, why couldn’t it happen? It certainly seems like we are in a good position to get Lowe, Dunn and Sheets have garnered little or no interest from anyone else, and I don’t see why it would be anything but easy to sign Tim Redding.
You are out of your mind
that is great thinking, but the only thing i can say is that in pressure situations when dunn is up were going to get really really frustrated. but were used to it so whatever.
If you were being water tortured, do you think you’d get used to it? SIGN MANNY RAMIREZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
damioneasley1 –
Did you put a lot of thought into that?
=)
lol
The main focus right now has to be the rotation, it is fairly weak right now. There is a good chance that Pelfrey regresses, but an equal chance that Maine re-emerges. Aside from Santana we have no solid start-to-start guy. Lowe is a solid answer. He becomes a must considering that the only other real answer on the market is Ollie. Been there, done that. Sheets is an alternative, but certainly comes with question marks. I’m really surprised the Mets haven’t shown any interest in Sheets though. He would be a very complimentary piece in a rotation of Santana, Lowe, Pelfrey, and Maine.
saber, the rotation is downright horrible right now. we are in some serious trouble if we don’t get something done here. Johan, Pelf (2nd big league season), Maine (coming off surgery to his throwing shoulder), Niese (rookie, wasn’t very good), and a nelson figueroa or some other below replacement player.
hmm
LETS GO METS
sheer delerium from some of my fellow fans
pay dunn 17 a year? has any other team even made a offer to dunn? why pay him that much. Unless we really need a guy in the lineup who is a feast or famine hitter who will strike out a billion times.
can we give the manny talk a rest? i mean really….
especially the comments that question who is or isnt a fan based on wanting manny.
The team has bigger more important holes to fill than bringing in a malcontent bat
It would be 17 million for two years, not one.
Dunn would be a right handed 2007 Delgado. Is that what we need?
dunn is a lefty you dunce
that’s right, my bad. so that’s even worse…
Derek Lowe Rumors: Sunday
By Nat Boyle [January 4 at 3:41pm CST]
3:41pm: Mark Bowman of MLB.com reports that the Braves are interested in Lowe, but not his price tag. Bowman says the Braves are “keeping tabs on Lowe,” but also states that the Braves would be reluctant to even make a larger offer than the three-year, $36MM deal that he rejected from the Mets.
11:44am: Jon Heyman reports the Braves, Phillies, and Red Sox and perhaps the Brewers and Angels are all expressing interest in Derek Lowe. Lowe is still looking for $16MM per year and rejected the Mets offer of 3 years, $36MM, his highest offer to date.
Buster Olney feels Lowe may have missed out on the big money when the Yankees signed A.J. Burnett for 5 years, $82.5MM over him; however, as Heyman points out, Lowe has been far more consistent and durable: “He’s won at least 12 games each of the past seven seasons and thrown at least 199 innings in six of those seven (he threw 182 innings the one year he didn’t reach 199.”
i can’t see either the pilths or the bravo’s being able – or willing to bid enough for lowe – the only team that does scare me are the yankmees but even then i don’t see lowe in their future
Bit of trivia – anyone know the original of the Philadelphia Phillies?
THE REJECTS ACTUALLY NAMED THEMSELVES THE PHILADELPHIA PHILADELPHIA’S!!! IDIOTS!! AND THEN SHORTENED IT TO PHILLIES!! FOOLS!!
well i think thats why the liberty bell is cracked lol
name*
I thought they were girl horses.
Like at the race track.
2 yr old phillies at saratoga today, blah, blah…
Just curious if you are from the Saratoga area, since you mentioned it in your post? I happen to live there, so I was just wondering.
Ph**k you, we won!!! World Ph**kin’ Champions!!!
i am so bored. why doesn’t Omar go after maybe Juan Cruz or trade for a bullpen arm while he waits on the Lowe situation. i want something to happen this week.
By the way, MLB channel is channel 174 on Time Warner Cable in Manhattan.
TW channel 621 here in the Lake George-North Country region…
It’s channel 149 on cablevision out on LI.
BTW I met the girl who was to become my 2nd wife in Lake George.
If we dont sign a starter and improve our lineup…this team WILL choke again…
We won’t choke. We won’t even be in contention to choke if we don’t get at least one starter…
Playoffs?
Playoffs?
Don’t talk to me about playoffs!
Playoffs?
Can something get done? we somehow need to start talking about improvements for our lineup. I cant watch this team hit .200 with RISP for another entire season
IMO; Lowe is NOT Santana.
We need to make a deal or move on to plan B.
And again, my personal, honest opinion, is the best signing will be NO signing of Lowe.
Think outside the box Om’ar!
Has anyone defrosted Fred’s head to show him the petition we fans signed to buy Manny?
WE WANT Manny!
Bring some pride back to Queens, darn it!
who cares about manny at this point
unless he can also pitch
If he can pitch as well as Derek Bell, he’s good nuf fa me, baby!
Just speaking out loud here…If the Mets put the same offer on the table to Sheets right now that Lowe rejected would he accept it? I think Omar should do it right now and find out….at worst, do you think it’d hurt the Lowe negotiations? hmmMM?
do somethin’, please!
you’re probably the only person on this planet who’d give Sheets 3/36. That’s insane.
If Sheets would take 3 for 36 I’d sign him today, and rejoice! I’d even tack on a 4th year team option. That still gives the Mets 8 million of cap room before reaching last year’s total. I’d go after Oliver Perez next with a 4 for 44 deal. Johan, Sheets, Perez, Pelfrey, Maine…that rotation is beautiful. If the Mets were intent on not spending on Manny, and keeping their payroll close to where it was last year, this is undoubtedly the best course of action to take. Well, that and then doing my three previously suggested moves of flipping Castillo in a three way for Downs, trading Schneider for Freel, and going after either Saltalamaccia or Teagarden.
I’d then also see if Alou would come back at a bargain basement rate of maybe target Billy Butler from KC.
Why would you give 36m to a pitcher who will not receive half that amount from anyone else? You make no sense
I’ll sign Sheets right now, that will keep Lowe price honest, and move on to the corner outfielder, and see what happens with Lowes price.
I don’t think you even have to go as high as the Lowe offer for Sheets. I think you could get him on a two year deal. Why not up the offer to Lowe to 3/$42 with a nice fourth year vesting option. And then offer Sheets something in the neighborhood of 2/$20. This seems like a no-brainer to me, but apparently it’s not to Omar.
They want another lefty, but I’ll forget about it if I could sign Sheets for 10M, that will put some pressure on Lowe/Boras, they know the Mets are the only one to really put some money for Lowe, a least so far, if they sign Sheets they will be showing that it is a time limit and a budge to do business with the Mets, and if they start expending the money in some other player, it might not be enough left for him.
I completely agree. I think signing one of Sheets/Wolf would really put pressure on Boras and Lowe – they’d see that the Mets are prepared for plan #2. If these guys can be had for 1 year deals @10-11m or 2 year deals @17-18 I’d do it and force Lowe to reconsider…
lol so lowe= sheets?
nice logic
here comes another division title to the phillies
I never said Sheets=Lowe, I said sign Sheets and put pressure on Lowe/Boras so we might end it up with Sheets/Lowe.
The problem is, I think that all the others are waiting for Lowe to set the market b/c what the yanks gave CC is just absurd…
16 mil per season for a 36 yr old pitcher is so not worth it!!!
I think the optimal move is Lowe AND Sheets, but I think from what we’re seeing from the front office that our best best is Lowe and Wolf. Not bad, but I’d prefer the former. The next two weeks are going to be baseball bedlam with all these free agents still out there.
*best bet
Based on ESPNs free agent rankings 10 of the top 20 free agents are still available and 61 of the top 100. I don’t ever remember an offseason like this, where we’re into January with so many free agents still available.
sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?type=ranked&season=2008
Garfios- I agree on that one. Sign Sheets and put pressure on Lowe.
Regis Courtemanche of Metsblog.com is our guest blogger for today.
Derek Lowe’s agent Scott Boras thinks that the Mets should spend like the thriftless Yankees recently did for A.J. Burnett, roughly $16 million per season, or $4 million more per year than the Mets had initially offered. I think it is almost common sense that the Mets will increase their offer, but If Lowe winds up pricing himself out of Queens, what are the Mets’ options?
Omar Minaya has expressed interest in Randy Wolf, Jon Garland, and of course Oliver Perez. I obviously prefer Lowe, who strikes out more batters, pitches more innings, and does pretty much everything else better than the other three. But my contingency plan starts with Wolf.
Oliver Perez’s numbers were remarkably similar to Wolf’s last year, but with Boras also being his agent, he may ask for too many years or too much money. Both Wolf and Garland throw around 200 innings per season, and when healthy, Wolf strikes out way more batters and allows fewer homers, hits, and runs than Garland. Plus, Wolf’s agent, Arn Tellem, is also K-Rod’s agent and knows both Jeff Wilpon and Omar Minaya very well.
The bottom line here is how high are the Mets willing to go? I feel they should, and will be aggressive with Lowe. If they fall short in the bidding, however, there are viable options waiting in the wings, and the Mets may be able to land Perez or Wolf with a deal like the one they initially offered Lowe. I just wonder if it will be worth it in the long run to not give Lowe what he wants, especially if that means the Phillies or Braves land him. Make it happen, Omar.
Lastly, I’m surprised that Ben Sheets has generated such little interest by the Mets. His susceptibility to injury is probably why, most notably the shoulder problems he incurred in 2006. Nevertheless, Sheets is much better than any of the above mentioned alternatives since he allows fewer homers, earned runs, and walks. Plus, his five complete games were third in the majors behind Roy Halladay, and his former teammate, C.C. Sabathia. Worth a second look if you ask me.
Is this copied from somewhere? Isn’t this something they should actually update this site with?
It’s copied from the Newsday website
Besides Lowe ain’t Jim Palmer or Tom Seaver, and we are in a buyers market, we can negotiate but we don’t have to go overboard, specially if is nobody else biding and we have other options.
It’s copied from over here (remove 3 pair of parentheses):
(weblogs.newsday)(.com/sports/baseball/mets)/blog/(2009/01/the_lowe_backup_plan).html
I don’t know where Regis gets the idea that Wolf is a 200 inning pitcher when he’s pitched more than 136 innings just once since 2003.
Ben Sheets has actually been more reliable than Wolf (albeit not much). Since neither stays on the field, I’d rather sign the one who is better when he is actually available.
Here’s a question for you. Why does Jon Garland get so much more attention than John Smoltz? Sure Smoltz is coming off a major injury, but I’d much rather take a shot at Smoltz than Jon Garland.
ummm smoltz is like 40 and is injured…..garland is like 28 and is coming off a decent season
If by decent you mean hitters batting over .300 against him with 23 HRs and him striking out less than 2x as many as he’s walked, then you might be on to something.
If I’m Omar and Lowe wants $16M for 3 years with a mutual option, I’ll give him $16.5M. If we want to contend, we need him more than he needs us.
Draft picks > Perez. Niese and Knight and maybe Figgy and (perhaps) Stoner for our 5-6-7-8.
thankfully you arent omar
the point of negotiating isnt to give the guy more than he asked for, its to find a middle ground.
that the dumbest thing i have ever read on this blog and there has been some idiotic things said on this blog over the years. Why give him 16.5MM when he said Boras demands 16MM???? If you think we should get him no atter what then offer 14.5MM and if he declines offer 15.5MM and have that be the final offer which he would accept (I think he would acept 14.5MM)
i love the sheets/lowe combination and we always have niese to fall back on sheets won’t go for 1 or 2 years
will go**
as nice as it would be to have sheets i do no see the mets organization going for hiim mainly because of his history with injuries…dont get me wrong id loovvvvvee to see a rotation of johan, sheets, lowe, pelf and maine…..its sick. pelf who last year was prob our #2 would be a #4…id love to see it happen
That makes sense. That’s why 4 years ago the Mets organization didn’t sign Pedro Martinez to be their starter – because of his injury history.
Let’s just get this done — Lowe and Sheets or Garland. I cant take this anymore. I gots agida.
This is the No Lowe ,Manny Lineup
Santana
Sheets
Pelf
Maine
Ollie
Reyes
Hudson
Wright
Delgado
Beltran
Church
Tatis/Murphy
Schneider/Castro
has there been any buzz about Hudson anywhere besides this site? i think Washington has expressed lukewarm interest, but haven’t seen anything else.
He may go for half of his original demand of 10M per
(trying this again since my comment is awaiting moderation. Forgot I used one of the no-no words).
O.K. – so MLB Hot Stove is reporting that Chipper Jones has been quoted as saying:
‘We led the division for 14 years and you never heard any trash talk out of us. Now that the Mets and Phils have been leading for a couple of years, that’s all you ever hear out of them. These two teams need to shut up and play the game. You win with cla-ss, you lose with cla-ss. Just play the game’.
Okey-dokey, Chipper….
Okey-dokey, Larry….
Riiiiight…. Cause Larry has never trash talked about anyone, and John Rocker was always the definition of cla-ss. That was a good laugh on the first work morning of the new year. Thanks, MF4D.
Oh yeah – John Rocker – those are fond memories, booing him and his big mouth out at Shea. Thank you for the chuckle on my first post holiday season back to work morning…..
everyone just needs to relax with the thought of manny or hudson in a mets uniform… the wilpons dnt like manny (its been stated publically multiple times) and nobody in their right mind wants castillo… i personally would love to see them both in citi regularly but unless we choose to eat castillos salary and find new owners.. we are s.o.l
as for sheets.. grabbing him at a reasonably price would be great for us… it would put us in a good situation to sign lowe at less than 5 million ontop of what we already gave him seeing how nobody else can afford him right now…
and also with the signing of ben sheets comes a possibility for improvement at the catcher position… the rangers have shown interest in ben sheets this offseason so with a package including sheets sneider and a young but promising pitcher such as bobby parnell.. we have a great chance at landing taegarden
I don’t think you can do a sign and trade in the MLB. I think you have to keep him for a certain amount of time.
you still can.. the stankees were gunna do with shef in 07 but he bailed on them
It is really sad how disconnected from reality the majority of you Met fans are. According to the posts the entire free agency market is going to be on the 2009 Mets roster – Lowe, Manny, Sheets, Dunn, Perez. You should just sign Henry Heimlich to prevent your team from choking in September.
Aww, a troll! How cute!
Now that the Phillies have finally won their 2nd title in nearly 120 years of existence, their fans are feeling their oats. How pathetic. LOL
guys, i know is irrelevant but Is it just me, or every mets fan will be rooting for the giants to beat the eagles this upcoming sunday?.. i’m sure that with what we’ve been trough the past 2 years we as new york fans wouldn’t wanna see any team from philadelphia come into new york and beat us..
If the Mets can get both Sheets and Wolf for what it would cost to get just Lowe, I’d rather they do that.
Lowe’s ERA on the road for the last 3 years is 4.24! That is not very good. Certainly not worth close to $16 million/year
Tell Boris to $@% himself.
Myself I would rather have Garland, Sheets/Wolf.
I’ve been saying since day one we should go and get sheets, but i wouldn’t get wolff after him, that’ll be taking a HUGE risk with 2 injury prone guys.. if sheets is in NY we should get another reliable guy like garland..
Depends what Wolf wants. If he comes cheaply … say cheap enough that they can get both Sheets and Wolf for what Lowe is asking — and the years are not too much, then I would take that risk. Yes both are injury prone, but they have Niiese and Parnell as backups.
not a good plan if u ask me, you take the risk with sheets becoz he’s a great pitcher and can use either niese or parnell (depends if niese struggle) to back him up.. but i don’t think it’d be wise to have 2 injury prone guys sign hoping they stay healthy
I’m not too familiar with the specifics of Wolf’s recent injuries … but lets say the docs check him and his medical records out and determine he’s now healthy … lets say he doesn’t demandmore than 2 years and more than $8 mill/year …. then as-suming all that I think it’s a fair risk because: 1) he pitched as many innings as Ollie last season and 2) he’s just 32! and 3) they’ve got Niese and Parnell close to ready to start on the ML level.
ok, well, for the past 4 years he’s been with 4 different teams, and the reason is that.. he gets hurt.. last year i was shocked he didn’t get hurt, but he did pitche pretty good, if we sign lowe i can see him here, not with sheets though..
If you can get Sheets + Wolf for what it would cost Lowe alone, why wouldn’t anyone do that? Those two provided 36 quality starts last year — Lowe alone produced 20.
Wolf had 18 quality starts last season. That’s just 2 less than Lowe.
Message to Lowe. Your just above a 500 pitcher, your 36 year old and your career is almost up. If you feel your worth AJ Burnett money. Why didn’t the Yankees sign you. The Yankees overpaid for Burnett who is younger than you. Braves say they will not spend more what the Mets offered. Phillies will not spend that. If you want to join fellow teamate Andrew Jones in the unemployment line ? Go for it!!! You both have more than one thing in common and a person to thank… Say TY BORAS!
Agree on all your points, however, why should he sign now? Why not try and get a bigger contract? He knows the Mets want him and he can at least get that contract. Why not at least wait a few more weeks?
And if the Mets really want him they both know the Mets will come back to him before they sign someone else.
Best thing the Mets could do is go out and sign another starter right now. That would put pressure on him.
well, another thing that we have to consider is it was just an offer, that doesn’t mean the mets wouldn’t offer another.. they offer 12, he wants 16.. maybe they can settle at 14.. that’s how usually works..
Exactly, maybe he gets 3/40 but gives the Mets a little help this year.
10/15/15 with a 15 million option and 5 million buy out.
Thus if bought out he gets 3/45. That’s his gain and for the Mets it gives them money to spend this year before Wagner comes off next year.
Agreed that they should get another starter now if possible. This as-sumes, of course, that it is at a reasonable cost!
Does 2 things. Puts some heat on Lowe to sign, and gives the Mets a cushion if he doesn’t.
Unless the med reports should a time bomb in SHeets shoulder, locking him up ST (1-2 years) would be a great signing. And should still leave room in the budget for lowe.
ANd if they get Sheets and Lowe finds some other team to go 4/64, then they still have an excellent front 4, and pelnty of budget to get a “real” 5th starter.
Look, if they sign Lowe they still have an open spot in the rotation.
I like the idea of Sheets but it’s risky if we don’t get Lowe. He is great but a rotation of Johan, Sheets, Pelfrey, Niese, Maine won’t get it done. Especially when Sheets gets injured.
I think you go out and sign Garland. He at this point should not cost more than 3/24-30. That solidifies the #5 spot and worse case you then go out and have to sign another innings eater and you are at least guarnteed a bunch of innings.
Quality starts last season:
Lowe — 20
Wolf — 18
Garland — 18
Sheets — 18
Ollie — 17
If I can get two out of Sheets-Wolf-Garland for not much more than what Lowe is asking for, I’d do it in a second.
I don’t see Lowe as that much of an upgrade over the rest of the others.
At this point I think you could get Garland and Wolf for a total of 3 years 18 million. That’s a very good rotation even considering injuries. Yes you are missing a #2 but Lowe was only really a #2 last year.
im not sure about garland.. hes only had an era under 4 once in his career and wouldve lost a lot of games if it wasnt for a potent white sox lineup saving his behind for most of the mid 2000s
***”Catcher, even though I think besides production and age, schnieder is ok”***
lol…that’s what you said…..So, he’s old and bad…how does that make him Ok?
That’s nonsense. Economics are about supply and demand, not the quality – just ask the US car manufacturers. Lowe has the same issue as they do – there’s more product on the market than buyers, so the price will suffer. I think someone made this point already in previous posts – it makes perfect sense. Lowe may want 20/m per season, but if there isn’t anyone willing to give him more than 12/m per, then he got no choice but to settle for it.