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Ken Rosenthal from FoxSports.com believes that Derek Lowe is not Omar Minaya’s only top choice, adding, “Oliver Perez is left-handed, eight years 
younger than Lowe and accustomed to pitching in New York. He also got married in mid-December, a sign of his growing maturity.”
According to Rosenthal, while the Braves, Brewers and Phillies are interested in Lowe, they seem unwilling to top Minaya’s initial three-year, $36 million offer.
In Newsday, Ken Davidoff explains that the Mets have no intention of increasing their initial offer ‘at this time,’ because they are ‘confident that they have no serious competition.’
According to Davidoff, the Mets have also been negotiating with Perez and free-agent LHP Randy Wolf.
Speaking of starting pitchers…
Andy Pettitte rejected Brian Cashman’s one-year, $10 million offer, ‘and there is no standing offer for now,’ reports Tyler Kepner in the New York Times.
By the way, the Braves have shown interest in Pettitte, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
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Good job Omar. Take it or leave it Lowe. There are other options out there and it sets the price for those other options. If Lowe ends up getting 13 from another team then that sets Perez at what 10-12? Wolf and Garland at 8? Omar is being the opposite of the M’s.
Totally agreed. Lowe is worth $12M per year. And that’s really about all that matters.
However, should we not sign Lowe, I really hope we go after Sheets and Perez.
Part of me just wants to sign both Lowe and Perez and have the pitching staff set for the next three years. That leaves Parnell and Niese as trade bait…..
Honestly, if Omar can sign Lowe for 12-13 per, he’d have plenty of bargaining room left for any other pitcher left on the market, including Perez and Sheets
Again, Minaya is playing his cards right…no need to increase the offer until another team gets involved…otherwise they would be bidding against themselves…my prediction is 3 years 42M with an obtainable 4th yr
The sad part of this is that either Omar will be hailed for not giving in to Boras and getting Lowe for not much more than the initial offer, which means that he actually risked losing him, which he shouldn’t do – or he will indeed lose out on him. We need this guy. He’s the best guy left and even at 15 mil a year is probably the best value of any of the pitchers this off-season (besides Beimel, whatever he signs for). The Wilpons shouldn’t totally give in to Boras, but they should let it be known that they will take more of their funds not earmarked for Ponsi schemes for this fiscal year to invest in buying Lowe, even if it actually might be buying a bit high. We haven’t even signed a starter yet and we probably need 2 to 3.
You lost all crediblity with the Beimel comment. He is terrible.
If you think I’ve lost all credibility because of my comment, well, that’s your opinion. I am interested in why you think Beimel is terrible. Honestly, I don’t know him very well, but his numbers, at least the general numbers like ERA, etc. are fantastic. I also think it is very risky for the Mets to go with just one situational lefty in Feliciano, if that is their plan, especially since he was very overworked and got a bit iffy of late. What is it about Beimel that you don’t like? I understand that numbers aren’t everything, for instance, sometimes when you look at Heilman’s numbers, they aren’t that bad, so that’s why I am really curious. It seems that Omar gets some theory or hunch and plays it, like thinking we are fine with one situational lefty, if that’s true. The one-piece-at-a-time in order of preference to stay on budget thing also unnerves me. The Mets are a rich team and should get the players they need when they can. They shouldn’t be total chumps, but neither should they play musical chairs, as they sometimes do and wait too long and have the players that I at least like be taken – in some cases, Omar isn’t even interested in these players. Like Lowe 4 years ago, instead of, or in addition to, Pedro. They are screwing up by not getting a great leftfielder, like they missed the boat on Soriano.
Like you said, ERA is a very general statistic. There are many more reliable statistics to evaluate a pitcher, such as WHIP, K/9, BB/9, etc. Beimel’s WHIP was a horrendous 1.45 last year, and his K/9 was very low, and his BB/9 was very high. His 2.01 ERA was pretty dang lucky, although I like the fact that he’s allowed ONE homerun over the past two years.
I think when it comes down to it, if Lowe gets a better offer than the Mets initial one, the Mets will go higher…there is no need to increase it now since no one has stepped up…I would imagine Boras will come back to the Mets before Lowe signs elsewhere
Exactly…why outbid yourself? Boras will come back to the Mets first when another offer is on the table, so why go all in before on the flop? Good job, Omar…I want Lowe but if he’s going to be like that then bring back Ollie.
erase before…typo
First off you don’t just over-pay people for the sake of over-paying them. Like the yankees did with Burnett, and many others over the years. You don’t just give into the demands of players. If Lowe gets mad at the offer and goes someplace else well… oh well.
If omar signs Lowe at 12-13 mil a year, and fill in a few other small holes (Bench, Lefty reliever, Maybe Corner outfielder) and doesn’t screw anything up, he would have had a terrific off-season. Playing his cards perfectly throughout the entire off-season.
Yes the Yankees signed the big names for big money, but is their team really better for it…. If you look at it:
CC – will he win more then the 20 that Moose won last season?
Teixeria – Will he completely replace what they lost with Abreau and Giambi?
AJ Burnett – Will he make 30 starts? or will he even replace what they had in pettitte.
SO right now everyone saying the Yanks are the favorites. They still have no Center Fielder. They still have no 4 and 5 in their rotation that is proven in any way. They still have an iffy setup to Mariano.
Their outfield is Nady, Melky, Matsui, Damon, Swisher, and only 3 places to play all of them and none really that good defensively.
So while the yanks made the 3 crazy huge contract moves, the mets have been sly and cunning in acquiring a new bullpen, and possibly re-vamping the starting rotation.
Those are some great points highlighted.
That’s cool.
Ollie gets married so he’s more mature. That will teach him control.
Or if he is Brett Myers to use both hands instead of just one.
Zing!
Actually, Myers is a good comp for Ollie.
in his 20s, but having problems being effective with his good stuff. Look what happened when he finally got the mental part down (after his trip to the minors).
More importantly, look what happened when crazy Rick was canned and Dan Warthen came in…all of a sudden Perez and Pelfrey were throwing strikes and were lights out!
That merits an: Oh Snap!
The Real is obviously not affriad to go there.
Getting married is a real sign of maturity – right Brett Myers?
Getting married is just as often a sign of immaturity.
Either way it shouldnt effect his performance. If he got married in Dec its not like he was out clubbing four nights a week all season. Or if he was its not going to stop because he got married…
It’s like the Cuban Missile Crisis!!!! Who’s gonna blink first?
Ahaha, I like the Boras-Krushchev comparison. Nice!
Does it fall apart when Omar is Kennedy?
I hope not…ok ok enough of the political references haha
Agreed…to an extent. Lowe has a bunch of tanks and Omar has a bunch of nukes.
Lowe has very little footing in this matter. What he DOES have (which has screwed teams in the past) is pride. If Lowe’s pride gets in the way (i.e. his agent becomes his conscience) then Omar could have trouble. Other than that 3/$42 sounds about right.
Pride is great, but they still need another team to make a better offer, which of course will be shopped right back to omar.
when was the last time a Boras client left money on the table due to pride, geographic preference, etc.?
I’m all for fiscal responsibility, and I agree wholeheartedly with not bidding against yourself, but Omar has got to keep a close watch on this one.but it would be a shame to see this guy to to a divisional rival for $12.5-$13MM. Let Lowe work for the 4th year…. vesting option based on year 3.
Still can’t decide which way to go on Ollie.
Is he destined to be the erratic 5 inning blow up guy with great stuff but no concept of how to use it?
Or will he be a stereotypical LH pitcher that struggles like this for years, but finally puts it together in his late 20s? Not that I expect him to be as good, but this is kind of what Koufax did, right?
I figure some team is either going to get burned big time by a LT contract, or will get a huge bargain on OP. Just gotta figure out which one!
I guess along with the age arguement for Lowe vs. OP is the potential rguement.
Lowe, at best, will stay around where he was for the last few years. he won’t get better, and will likely tail off a bit.
OP though should be at least as good (bad? erratic?), but potentially could be much better, so he does have “upside potential”
Maybe if they resign him the team can do an intervention, and lock him in a room with Santana until OP finally decides to learn how to pitch the right way!
I don’t think Ollie will ever be Koufax, but you never give up on youth…especially not when he showed big signs of improvement under a new pitching coach last fall. It would be very interesting to see what Warthen could do to him given a whole ST and full season. That being said, I still prefer Lowe but if we could sign both I would be in heaven!
Seriously I want Lowe but would a rotation including Garland, Wolf/Perez be any worse than Lowe Redding? If you keep that first SP at 12 million you have enough to get 2 SP. If he cost 15 million then you get Redding. Big difference in Redding and Wolf/Garland.
lowe is not that good, i’ve said that many times, they know that as well, he’s worth 12 millions at most now.. they should take a look at ben sheets, maybe even him and oliver might come cheap…
I just don’t know what the market is for Sheets. I am sure the Rangers are interested and maybe a team like the Braves? I would think that 2/18 with incentives should be enough.
i would definetely look at him big time, that’s cheap, specially since the mets are playing it safe when it comes to spending this year, lowe won’t get more than 14 a year, i’d be glad if that team is not the mets
If they can snag sheets for 2/18, Omar has to take a flyer on that. 5th starter (on the open market money) for a guy that is potentially (if healthy of course!) the best SP on the team, or at least a 1A.
Signing him like that also puts all the pressure on Lowe, since the mets need for him does go way down.
if we are able to get him and lowe says ok i wanna play for u, the rotation would be sick!!
SUPERMAN
Pelfrey/Lowe/Sheets/Maine….
what i mean by that is that each one of those pitcher can be our #2.. so we can have a true #1 and a #2, #2A, #2B, #2C
I don’t think Maine is a #2, Alex…but I agree that would be a sick rotation. Like I mentioned previously, though…I’d really rather have another LHP in the rotation, whether it be Ollie or Niese.
well, 2 years ago he did pitch like one, but even if he is our #4 or #5 he’d be better than a lot of other team’s #3.. we can only dream right
Sheets is scary, but him and Ollie would be nice!!!
If we sign Lowe then Redding will most likely not be our #5. That puts 4 RHP in the rotation…not very smart for a team going against the likes of Utley (but not until June!), Howard, Ibanez, etc. Nobody will say it right now, but unless Ollie and Lowe are signed Niese is going to be our #5…
I hope all the omar hayters are watching this. I think he is playing this very well. Even though im not a big fan of OP, put our rumors that we are looking elsewhere and we are really the only ones that can afford you. I would think omar will go a little bit more for lowe but not much.
All the Omar haters think Omar sent an email to Boras then quickly went back to Spider Solitaire.
Spider Solitaire is oddly addictive. At least for me.
While the Omar haters themselves are posting comments on here from work…hysterical
The only problem with that strategy in this case is that Boras reps both Lowe and OP, so you can’t play one off the other. Boras will know the hand Omar is holding. Unless you start talking Sheets.
All in favor of placing a citizens’ arrest on Scott Boras?
Derek Lowe will be a Met, and it will be for more than 3/$36M, but not a ton more.
i see 3 years 40 to 42 millions
Omar is playing it right, not bidding against himself.
I just wish Boras would actaully go back and negotiate instead of trying to drag out his endless game of chicken. He does have other clients in limbo that might want to get signed at some point!
how hard is it to make a formal counteroffer (instead of just postruing through the media)? Or maybe they did, and we don’t know about it!
Boras obviously has been working to get other teams to play, and it deosn’t seem to be happening. Or at best, they are waiting to lowball too.
So he fits best with the Mets, the Mets need him, so meet. Boras says 4/64 guaranteed. Omar goes 3/42, and a reasonable vesting option for year 4.
Then they sign and have lunch.
i hope that we have a good defensive 2b if we sig nhim.. wouldn’t wanna see castillo at 2b draggin as-s..
If Castillo is our 2b next season, the one thing you won’t see him doing is dragging a. s.s. I actually believe him when he says he is going to work hard to win the fans over again…but talk is cheap too
i don’t mean not hustling, i mean that his knees will give up on him, he has no range as before, and with delgado standing there we need somebody to cover lots of ground..
Agreed 100%. I’d love to see O-Dog at 2B for us (considering the options out there)…but let’s face it, Castillo is our 2b for 2009 until he gets hurt again.
and if he does, then…….
Unless Hudson is taking 3/21-24 I want no part of him. He is just not that good. We would be better off using that 10 million in LF.
how the market is i see nobody spending more than 8 millions on hudson, i give him 2 years and 16.. that’s it..
Alex, if I was him considering his age and likely decline I would be looking for years instead of money per year. Something like the Castillo deal maybe. I still don’t want it but that would be more attractive. At least then you only have 12 million a year tied up in 2B.
yeah, is just castillo made it sooo hard, but i guess omar learn his lesson.. you notice he’s not going over 3 years on anybody this year…?
I’m sure you will disagree with me (and that’s fine), but I think we would get some production from Hudson at 2b. He’s obviously not a savior and is most definitely not worth anything more than $8-10 mil a year, but I don’t think he is going to decline just yet. I keep hearing a comparison between him and Alomar, but besides the 4 years difference in age Alomar was entering his 15th full season. Hudson will be entering his 7th full season this spring. I don’t think it’s fair to compare the two quite yet, and I don’t think it’s safe to say he will decline just yet either.
Lowe is a washed up load…
another Sox has-been that will spend most of his contract on the DL.
YOUTH!
Move on…
Lol, happy new year to you too eddy
The only word of what you have written that makes any sense is “youth.” Lowe is getting on in years, sure, but his numbers are rock steady. He is not, as yet, washed up.
but that’s the real problem, we DON’T have a real 2b let alone a good right defensive side of the field, that might be a problem for us.. i rather get sheets and perez to be honest, but i’d be thrill if is sheets and whoever to be honest.. i think he’s a beast
Why are you telling me this? I never said anything about a second baseman.
, i meant for the comment below tide, sorry.. lol
You’re absolutely right…oh wait, that’s based on…what exactly?
He’s a workhorse, stays healthy, and is a groundball machine. If we ever had a real 2b, he’d be a great fit for the team.
When has Derek Lowe ever been on the DL? Ummm, never in his ENTIRE CAREER…so I’d really like to know what made you come to that conclusion.
i’m sure he made that statement based on what happen to us when we sign pedro..
Maybe…but that is a horrible comparison. Pedro is not the workhorse Lowe is, and his body just couldn’t take it anymore. Lowe is still a big guy and is in perfect shape for staying healthy for at least 3 more years. Big guys in shape can pitch longer than usual (ie Clemens, Unit, etc.)
lol is Clemens the comp you want to make?
Steroids or no steroids, the guy’s work ethic and raw ability still put him on top of the league. I think he would have been able to pitch into his 40s even if he wasn’t on the juice…the point I was making is that a big frame can support a longer career.
I know you guys will think I am a bit nuts but, if we were able to dump Castillo, would any of you consider O Cabrera over Hudson.?Hudson is younger by 3 years. Cabrera has more pop and can swipe a few bags. If the cost was similar. Short term deal.
i thought the same thing at first but he’s never played 2b.. but he’d come way cheaper..
I’m sure Hudson would lower his asking price if Omar negotiated with him…he has shown great interest in being a Met. Given the market, I think we could get Hudson for a good price. But not unless we move Castillo….
He says now he is willing and asked the spankees if they would entertain that thought.
i’m sure if he did ask the yankees is becoz he can get the most money in NY.. but he’d be a good fit becoz he can cover a lot of ground..
As I have said for a month 3/40 looking like this 10/15/15 with a 15 million option and 5 million buyout. If he stays for only 3 years he gets 3/45 if he stays 4 he gets 4/55. If that is not good enough to get him then leave it.
At this point I would still rather have 2 of Garland, Wolf, Perez, Sheets than to have Lowe, Redding Niese.
Sheets and perez
Why would you have Lowe, Redding, and Niese? 3 spots already belong to Santana, Pelf, and Maine…unless we have a 6 man rotation lol
The point with that being that Redding would be competeing with Niese or we would end up with just Niese.
Oh ok, well in that case of course you take the other option…we need another LHP, in my opinion.
I don’t really care about handedness, I just want innings and quality starts. Give me the combo that will produce the most of those.
For those who wonder about Perez, he has pitched in the big leagues since 2002, so while he is only 27, we are not talking about a pitcher who may blossom in his 3rd year. I think ollie is who he is at this point, an erractic left handed pitcher who will remain inconsistent.
Lets get Lowe.
Yes but he never exceeded 126 innings until 2007 (except in 2004 with the Pirates, but what good does that do?). 2007 was his first actual full-time season, in my opinion. I think he still has the potential to be a great pitcher, considering he has some of the nastiest stuff in the bigs. I agree we should get Lowe first, but even then we should try and bring back Ollie.
The interesting part is that some see Ollie as Omar’s target, yet no news of an offer to Ollie.
Very tough decision for Omar, go w/ old and reliable but expensive Lowe, or young and inconsistent Perez, or average lefty Wolf.
I’m guessing the amount spent on SP will determine what happens in LF.
I hope Pedro is offered and takes an incentives deal.
Please no. Unless you are getting Lowe. But even then in this market you could get Wolf or Garland for about what you could Pedro. Pedro is a 5 inning pitcher that would have a 4.5 ERA.
Really think Wolf or Garland will take a $4-6M deal (just a guess)?
No but I think 8 million may do it. I still don’t know if I see Pedro taking that much of a pay cut. I would think he would retire before taking that low of a salary. You say with incentives but that’s really just innings pitched and for Pedro, that’s risky.
I’m wondering why Sheets isn’t getting a bit more love. I know that he’s been injury prone, and did miss a couple of starts last season, but he did start 31 games and pitched close to 200 innings. His ERA was a tick over 3. Put him behind Santana and he’d be great. Maybe he’s on Omar’s stealth radar.
Maybe there is more to that last injury than we know.
IS not only us but pretty much EVERYBODY that has stayed away from him.. which scares me.. i even heard he still got that elbow injury..
Maybe teams just don’t like what they see with his medical records.
Omar is playing this the right way. Why offer Lowe more money and more importantly more years when no other team is willing so far to equal or top the Mets offer? No reason at all for it. If another team comes in and tops the Mets offer then you can raise the amount. Getting Lowe at 12 or 13 million instead of 16 or 17 million a year allows them to resign Ollie as well for 10 or so million a year which would be a very smart move. Fans just have to be patient. We got K-Rod with out having to give him 4 or 5 years at 15 or 20 million a year or whatever the ridicules amount was that he wanted. We did not offer pay for K-Rod and should not for Lowe.
I really would love to see them get both Lowe and Ollie. That would give them a really really good 1-5. I mean in the NL and even AL who can match that 1-5? You can make an argument for a few teams but not many. I don’t believe that just because Ollie got married that means he is more mature, but I do feel that the guy is still young and has come a long way from when we first got him. He got off to a really horrible start last year and I no he can blow up at times and just fall apart. But he will be pitching in the back end of the rotation and he seemed to really respond to Dan Warthon so I don’t think it is a bad move at all to resign Ollie. I would much rather have Ollie then Tim Redding or John Garland or whatever other names have been thrown out there. The Mets also would not have to worry about there rotation for a few years. You would have Santana, Lowe, Ollie all locked up under contract. Big Pelf can’t be free agent till 2013 (arbitration eligible starting 2010) and Maine can’t be free agent to 2012(arbitration eligible starting 2009).
All great points. And i don’t see any rotation in the NL being better if you have Johan, Lowe, Ollie, Maine, Pelf.
This was my reasoning earlier in the year why to sign say Garland and someone else cheaper and get a very solid 1-5. This was when Lowe’s demands were at 80 million. I have said all along, Lowe isn’t worth 15 mil a year. He isn’t a Stud, he isn’t a shut down guy. He’s a quality pitcher, who will log his 200 innings and make his starts. Have quality outings and keep you in lots of ball games.
He’s not worth more then Oswalt, Peavey. He isn’t an 18 million dollar a year pitcher, let alone a 15 million dollar a year. He’s worth what he was offered, and he’s still getting a raise when he didn’t do anything too spectacular from his last 9 mil a year contract.
Snort-it (Great handle, by the way… my cousin was once at a game in ‘83 or ‘84 after they got Mex and heard a fan say “Hey, you see how the first base line is gone towards first? Hernandez snorted it!”)-
Great post. I doubt it will happen, but if we can somehow get Lowe and Ollie that would be a real coup for Omar. You have to love Lowe’s consistency; you have to love Ollie’s left-handedness and stuff, but he has been too inconsistent (didn’t he drive us bonkers with all of those meltdown innings?). I would have to choose Lowe at this point between the two. The only thing that concerns me is our right-handedness in the rotation, particular with the lefty Philly bats of Utley, Howard and now Ibanez. I like Wolf a lot, but is he the 5th starter answer? (I think Wolf would dig coming here– remember the series with the Phils where he met some girl on the subway and was trying to find her ’cause he liked her? If they sign Wolf, I guess you have Niese to back him up. I’d love for them to try and get Buehrle from the ChiSox, a younger, much better version of Lowe, but it would take some good prospects to get him.
oliver is da man.
How is being married going to improve his control?