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Update, 9:15 pm:
Anthony DiComo of MLB.com says Minaya talked with Boras about Lowe, as well as Ramirez and Perez.
I was under the impression Ramirez and Perez were not discussed. I’m glad I was wrong about this.
However, unfortunately, I still sense there is little-to-no chance Ramirez ends up on the Mets.
Actually, the more people I talk with, the more I think a front-end starting pitcher could be Minaya’s last major move, i.e., no Manny, no Orlando Hudson, etc., unless something significant impacts the team’s current position.
Original Post:
From what I can gather, Scott Boras recently met with Omar Minaya in New York City – and things went well.
The two sides left feeling confident that an agreement could eventually be reached between the Mets and free-agent Derek Lowe, though Boras is likely to take more time to try and solicit additional offers.
I do not believe their talks extended to include Oliver Perez and Manny Ramirez.
Meanwhile, according to people connected to Lowe, the Mets will eventually need to grant a fourth-year option, and may need to pay more per season than they initially offered, but not $15 million – and the Mets are open to this.
In other words, like Joel Sherman of the New York Post wrote earlier today, I’m thinking Lowe could eventually cost Minaya a three-year, $42 million deal, with a performance-based fourth-year option and a team buyout.
In the end, Minaya has a strong relationship with Boras, and Lowe is interested in pitching in Queens, especially since he has so few high-priced suitors, and so I like where the Mets stand – however, with Boras in the mix, you never know what might happen.
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lets get him! what really excites me is lowe working with maine and pelfrey.
Santana, Lowe, Maine, Pelfry, Redding. I like it.
If we sign Lowe ,we cant sign Redding (righty) we need Wolf or another Lefty !
why do we need another lefty???
Not essential, but I would like some rotation balance
I would rather have the better pitcher…
Niese will probably come in at some point, so having another lefty is not essential.
I think Redding is a better pitcher than his stats indicate, plus he’s young. Could be a fine addition to the rotation.
We really don’t need a Lefty or a Righty persay, we need a good pitcher. Period. Someone like Lowe can get opposing hitters out no matter if they are Lefty or Righty.
Perez might be a little bit of a better matchup against the Phillies because they’re becoming very left-handed, but we’re only talking about 11% of our games there, it’s better to build for the long-haul instead of building a team specifically to beat Philly.
You can’t over look the fact that our lefties dominated the Phillies last year. I think it is more important now that Burrell is out and Ibanez is in.
Its “per se” not persay.
Put me down for Garland or a flier on Sheets (I know it won’t happen).
Garland #5 with Niese ready to fill in down the line looks quite solid to me.
It has to be a lefty or Sheets(ace) for the 5 spot.
When….If we sign Lowe,I would like to see us sign Sheets over anybody else (if we can get him cheap)
I would also look at signing Mark Mulder to a Minor League contract…maybe catch lightning in a bottle!!
If the Yankees eat some of his contract, how about trading for Bigfoot? Although 30 years is a long time.
Tidewater – when did the Yankees acquire John Rausch?
Matt your source for this post was VCarver ?
LoL
Did you LOL your own post????
I forgot to put it in the original post as a sign that i was kidding ! but lol anyway and about bigfoot we might way to his final year !
Wait*
You gotta know when to hold ‘em….
“From what you can gather”….seriously, no link or source?
Who did you talk to, the bellhop at the hotel they met at? Maybe it’s the former Gekko at the top of the Metsblog banner.
Matt’s from-what-I-can-gathers are usually pretty solid.
He gets all his inside info from Geuiseppe Franco!
maybe giuseppe franco told him
Substitute maybe, with hopefully.
In all seriousness, this is promising news. Thank goodness.
Matt does a good job on these posts. Sometimes he can post without a source, just keeping his ear to the ground. I don’t think for a second Cerrone makes things up.
Me personally think that everybody is having fun with Matt because of what happen this morning !
What happened this morning??
go to the Boras and Minaya will meet post !
But tread lightly!
“I sense… a great disruption in the Hot Stove Force.”
Matt, any reason the Mets can’t jump into the Peavy fray if/when Maine hopefully shows a healthy shoulder in the spring? If the PEavy thing lingers to mid-March, a package of Maine/F-Mart/Kunz or Mejia beats anything the Cubs were offering. Maine is a proven major leaguer years away from FA and F-Mart is still a top positional prospect (isn’t he?) – that’s an attractive offer to a rebuilding club (frankly, I’ m not sure the Mets would do such a deal). Of course, the Mets would still need to fill the 4-spot and gamble that Niese sticks in the 5-spot, but a back-end of Wolf and/or Redding and/or Niese (and/or Pedro?) would look a heckuva lot better with Santana/Peavy/Pelfrey leading the charge. Santana/Peavy would also form quite the playoff 1-2 punch (should we be so lucky).
Again, Peavey has a no-trade clause and doesnt like NYC. Doesnt matter what the Mets would offer.
i’m a firm believer that there’s not a no-trade clause alive that a few more years and a few more dollars can’t remedy. if i understand his cot’s profile correctly, he’s only getting 8M this year, and his extension guarantees 3 years/52 million for ‘10-’12 (including a 4M club buyout). i think a guaranteed 4 years at 76 million or 5 at 90 million would at least make him think about it. still probably less than he’d get on the open market (even this open market), and can be sweetened with a player option after ‘11. i understand concerns about his health, but i think this would be a bold effort.
sure enough, in my haste, i did read it incorrectly – he gets 11M for ‘09 – i think the dollars i mentioned still make sense, though.
Peavy would be nice. I don’t think he’s coming to the Mets (doesn’t he have a no trade, or some say in the matter?)
Further, at this point, FMart is not going to be traded. He is going to play for the Mets, at least as long as we can see what we’ve got in this kid. Omar puts him in the stratosphere with Wright and Reyes in terms of kids we developed ourselves and held onto, so I think we will see him, possibly as early as this year. Nice try, though.
I would like the Lowe-Wolf combo, but I don’t like that Wolf is asking for 3/30. I’d offer him 1 yr@7, option for 2nd yr @8. If any team wants to give him more than that they can have him…
You just have take the words out of my mouth !
Buty such thoughts and words are logical and well-reasoned. And you are Willie Randolph. Does not compute!!!!!!!
Yawn. Wake me when we actually get somewhere…
Yes, you never know what can happen, especially with Boras. I’m keeping my fingers crossed, because I believe we REALLY NEED Lowe.
ok so 3 and 42 with an option. fine with me. as long as its not some super easily attainable option. then what? sign redding w/ best case scenario be signing wolf?
I’m well aware that the meeting with Boras went well.
Thanks.
LMFAO!!!!!!!
Why would the Mets “eventually need” to add an option or more money if no one else is willing to give it to him?
I wouls still prefer to have Ollie.
WHY ? He is inconsistent
havent you heard Derek Lowe is 36 which automatically means he’s going to have a terrible year…
Ollie is a mental midget and we have enough of those already as it is.
Give me Lowe
Yeah, he is a mental midget because he has control problems. Mental midgets do not pitch their best games in the biggest spots against their biggest rivals. Ollie is what he is, and so is Lowe. Right now, Lowe is a slight upgrade over Ollie. Ollie is 9 years younger, and if he ever lowers his walk rate, he will be an elite pitcher. If not, he has shown he is still a serviceable 3/4. Lowe is not getting any better. I’m fine with either, though I also prefer Ollie.
Ollie is what he is an awful pitcher.
I think ollie is way better than redding or wolf. He has better stuff than lowe and is healthier than sheets
That said I think lowe is way more consistent than any of them.
Lowe isn’t a “slight” upgrade, he’s a “significant” upgrade. Lowe is by far more proven and consistent than Ollie, and he pitches many more innings. As for big games…. Lowe had an ERA under 1 in the month of September, and Perez??? Over 5…. Also, as routinely pointed out, outside of the NL East, Perez had an ERA over 8 which is nightmarish.
NRMAX.
OLLIE “WILL BE AN ELITE PITCHER” IF HE LOWERS HIS BB’S ?
YOU POOR MISGUIDED SOUL, DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE DEFINITION OF ELITE ? HERE, I’LL THROW OUT SOME NAMES AND YOU POP A BRAIN FART AND SEE IF OLLIE FITS IN.
SEAVER:
CARLTON:
GIBSON:
MADDUX:
KOUFAX:
JUST A FEW NAMES OFF THE TOP OF THE DOME, IF OLLIE CAN CONTROL HIS BB’S HE’LL BE A SOLID PITCHER AT BEST.
Yawn, wake me when a Wilpon’s present for one of these meetings otherwise they mean nothing.
This is exciting news. If we can land Lowe we can finally move on and sew up the loose ends.
Hey sabes! You’ve been calling for a 3 year 42MM dollar deal, with a fourth year option. Right on man!!
sabes is the man!!!! and im sure his real name is not bret saberhagen lol
FYI – The Browns have hired Mangini
the browns would hire Mangini…
Very true. Go G-Men
HELLO CLEVELAND !!!!
Rock ‘n’ Roll!
Why don’t you just make 10 louder and let 10 be the top number?
These go to 11.
by the way guys – as per mlbtr
The Rockies are a long shot for Tim Redding following their Jason Marquis acquisition. The Mets and Orioles still like him; he may command $2.5-3MM.
$2.5 – $3 would be a great deal. I’m getting really excited about this year.
honestly i’d rather have sheets or ollie as afith starter but i guess i’d settle for redding lol
Oh don’t get me wrong…I’m with you on that. But I can live with Redding. Why does Omar have no love for Sheets? (well besides the injuries…lol)
Rusty, I agree, but those are EXPENSIVE fifth starter options and leave less $$$ to address other items like the bench, 2B, LF, LHRP, etc now or at the deadline.
Get it done already and let’s keep the ball moving. We need Lowe, but we need more. I’d take a chance on Chad.
Help me out here. Chad? Not ringing any bells.
cordero – not hanging
I’m guessing he meant Chad Cordero?
only chad i know in baseball other than billingsly
How could you forget Chad Bradford?
I automatically thought Pennignton. LOL
I tought OchoCinco
Ahhh yes…slap me for not remembering. I wouldn’t mind that move actually.
sabes u think cordero would be content in being a loogy??
well he’s a righty, so he can’t be a loogy. 7th inning guy, and i’m sure he’d be willing to do that. no contending team is going to tap him as their closer
Rise Citifield fans and welcome your 2009 Flushing Expos
I think he’d be content with a 7th inning role with Pedro Feliciano to help rebuild his value. I think he knows he’s going to have to re-establish himself before he’s a closer again. Imagine 3 guys with strong closer experience. Wow.
btw i guess matt wont put up the confidence poll until after the lowe negotiations are resolved
Matt who is your source??
“from what I gather” ??
Matt is this a guess?
Am I the only one who doesn’t think derek lowe is the second coming of christ? he is not a good pitcher, he is a mediocre at best pitcher who rode a streak of good luck in the playoffs of his walk year into a 4 year deal on a crappy team in a crappy division… anyone who thinks at ages 36-40 this guy is a solid number 2 obviously hasnt paid close attention to the stats… look at his numbers… hes had one good season ever, 2002, 2 terrible seasons and 4 straight mediocre seasons… and he is 9 years older than perez, who also has had 1 spectacular season, 2 terrible seasons, and 2.5 straight mediocre seasons… but ollie is only 27, beats the phillies and the braves (and you have to take that into account when the offenses in our division are better than the giants, dbacks, and padres easily, and even better than the rockies outside colorado)… imagine if perez has the good fortune to pitch in LA (a better pitchers park, a weaker division) we would be panting to get him right now…
and havent the mets learned their lesson on signing aging, past their prime talent (martinez, el duque, alou are recent memories, but mets history is riddled with this sort of thing)… sure, derek lowe might give us some quality outings next season, but not over the course of his contract… and just because you can throw 200 innings a year doesnt make you a good pitcher (steve trachsel, livan hernandez)…
what worries me is the last time this guy was in a competitive division with good teams he was terrible (2 straight years- 2003 4.47 era 1.416 whip, 2004 5.42 era 1.615 whip)… why do you think the red sox let him walk that offseason despite what he did in the playoffs? everyone says he can handle the east coast, but i defy you all… he cannot, is not a “legitimate” number 2 many fans and talk-heads will claim, and we will regret signing yet another aging veteran for our rotation who will cost more money than the 9 years younger incumbent he would be replacing…
this makes me sick
I pretty much agree with you, but I think you may be just a tad harsh on him.
But you summed up my feelings. He is a decent pitcher, but no where near as good as his rep has been blown up to make him seem. And the age is a red flag.
Still, there are some guys that get better with age, and he may be one of them.
Very strong argument.
You’re on crack if you think Perez is better than Lowe. He’s not, in any way, shape, or form…..
i am not on crack, but if you honestly think that over the life of a 4 year deal the mets will get more out of a now 36 year old righty than a 9 years younger lefty shows how little attention you pay to the mets history of contracts to guys over 35, and the conventional history of pitchers over the age of 35…
again, we got 1 good year out of pedro… people might argue the merits that all the cash and years was worth it bc he changed the franchise, and thats fine, but lowe isnt a guy to inspire a fan base or other players to play for a team…
elduque didnt even pitch the last year and a half
tom glavine, a hall of famer, never approached his numbers from atlanta when he came over here after the age of 36…
but you are right, i must be on crack
But there were other, more relevant, factors than their ages on arrival. Pedro, whether through age or injury, lost roughly 7mph off his fastball, and had to learn an entirely new approach to the game. Glavine had an falsely wide strikezone taken away from him by Questec. More than age, those things brought about their downfalls (downsfall?). Lowe doesn’t have to change or adjust to anything, he just has to keep throwing ground balls.
Increased risk of injury is a part of aging. Pedro’s injuries could have been brought on in part by age.
Absolutely VC, and I appreciate your use of the phrase “could have” but specifically with Derek Lowe we need not worry about him losing his fastball, as he doesn’t really have one, so even if he is injured he won’t likely have to become a different pitcher as Pedro did.
Except Lowe has only gotten better in each of his last 4 seasons — Glavine was clearly on a decline by the time he got here.
Actually, his ERA rose over the previous 3 years. His lowest ERA in the last 4 years came this season… but no surprise since it was his walk year.
I didn’t say his ERA went down. I said he got better.
But, at a reasonable 3 year contract with an option, he starts as a 2/3 along with Pelf and Maine and then becomes a solid 3 to 4 who will keep you in games and keep the pen rested over the rest of the contract. With less insanity/blowups as Ollie.
Nobody is saying he’ll be a strong number 2 for all 3 or 4 years. You can develop or pick up a stud number 2 or alternate ace in 09 or 10.
Sorry, in 10 or 11……silly me I forgot it IS 09!
right, as in develop a 27 year old lefty who is coming into his prime and will be pitching for one more big contract? i hate to break it to you, i know everyone loves farm guys, but neise is not going to be anything more than a number 5 guy, parnell is not good, and out best pitching prospect, brad holt, has only 1 pitch… i think keeping a 27 year old is a good way of developing a starter
I realize that it is just a part of the argument against Lowe, but if I am supposed to be afraid that Lowe will not fare well as a Met because Ollie pitches well against the Phillies and Braves but Lowe has been ‘falsely inflating’ his stats against the offenses of the NL West, what am I to think of Ollie’s career numbers against the NL West?
against AZ: 46.2 IP, 5.01 ERA, 1 W, 5 L;
against LA: 69.2 IP, 3.88 ERA, 5 W, 5 L;
against COL: 71.2 IP, 4.90 ERA, 4 W, 4 L;
against SD: 21.2 IP, 5.40 ERA, 1 W, 3 L;
against SF: 42 IP, 7.07 ERA, 0 W, 5 L.
If Ollie is so good, how come he’s not fattening up on those alleged lightweights?
For what it’s worth, Lowe pitched pretty well against the Phils, Atlanta, and Washington, in a very small sample.
This divisional argument is crap.
I prefer your use of the phrase “intellectually dishonest” as below, but “crap” works too.
thanks for fixing my typo!
thank you for doing the leg work…i was thinking the same thing–the “think how good ollie would be in the nl west” argument just doesn’t fly
As I posted below:
In 50 career innings against Philly (likely all of which were in the last 4 seasons), Lowe has held the mighty two time champions of the mighty NL East to a .237 batting average and is 4-1 with a 3.02 ERA.
there are 2 saves in that record, so perhaps all of the innings were not in the last 4 years, but certainly a substantial number of the innings likely were.
we all know how inconsistent ollie is, and how he sometimes doesnt show up for some games… however, if you were going to ask anyone who is more likely to improve and who is likely to regress, a 27 year old lefty or a 36 year old righty, i garuantee you 10 times out of 10 people take the 27 year old lefty…
lets not underestimate the increased value of having lefties in the rotation… we have witnessed first hand what teams can do to an unbalanced line-up with a lefty pitcher…
if you are going to say over 4 year contracts, all things being equal, that lowe (finishing at age 40) will be better than perez (finishing at age 31) and still more durable, than obviously we are watching different baseball…
also in terms of durability, which is everyone’s talking point when it comes to lowe, given the chance to make 30 starts, perez has pitched 195 innings on average (small sample size, i know)… thats not far off from everyone’s magical “200 innings”
Ollie has pitched more than 190 innings twice from 2004 until now. Last year he did so to a 4.22 ERA.
Lowe has pitched 2000 innings 4 times in the last 4 years, each time with an ERA under, sometimes well under four.
I’m not sure what it is that “we have all seen” regarding not having a lefty against an unbalanced lineup. I’d love to see some data on whatever that is supposed to mean.
Last season lefties had an OBP under .300 against Lowe. He doesn’t care which side of the plate batters stand on. In fact, lefties hit for less power against him than right handers. Meanwhile, Perez had an OBP against of over .360 against righties.
So I’m not buying any lefty-righty argument here.
No one is saying that Lowe will be better than Perez in 4 years. No one knows that. But it’s not even close regarding who is better NOW.
By the way, had Ollie pitched 30 games for 195 innings that would be impressive. But it was 34 games for 195 innings — an average of 5.7 a start.
That’s not so impressive — especially given the need to avoid the Mets bullpen last season.
By contrast, Lowe averaged 6.2 innings per start last year. He’ll get the Mets right to Putz, while Ollie will still be handing the ball off to Feliciano and the other crapshoots in the middle of the game.
You can cherry pick his one bad year (which was 5 years ago, mind you) and ignore his 4 seasons in the NL in which he averaged more 210 innings and held batters to batting averages between .246 and ,262 (and actually getting better each of the last two seasons as he’s “aged”). Last season he was the NL’s second best starter (140 IP +) in groundball to flyball ratio.
Clearly, his ability to generate groundballs along with improved control and strikeouts has accounted for his success. Not his coast, his city or the lack of “pressure.”
Ignoring all of that stuff is intellectual dishonest.
For people who think his age is a problem… his last two seasons were his highest strikeout totals of his career. Does that sound like some who is breaking down?
Remember, he only started for 3 seasons in Boston. All evidence points to a guy who has learned how to pitch effectively by inducing groundballs and avoiding walks.
a guy who learned how to pitch? then you also admit if you are going to throw out his bad seasons, you have to throw out his apparently anomalous spectacular season, especially since he didnt “learn how to pitch” until long after that…
then we should also throw out ollie’s bad seasons, and since you argue that lowe didnt “learn how to pitch” until he got into a pitcher friendly ballpark in the weakest hitting division in the weakest league at age 32, then who is to say that ollie wont learn “how to pitch” if we are going to look at the most appealing stats, as you suggested by discounting lowes bad years, ollie has been very serviceable and at least above league average the last two seasons for the mets…. and he is a 27 YEAR OLD LEFTY… again people cry about 200 innings, he had 196 last season and given 30 starts + again he will top 200 innings… and if you honestly believe that over the course of the given contracts they will both receive that lowe would finish better, then you clearly ignore any conventional baseball wisdom about age and regression… unless you actually believe that derek lowe has found some magical fountain of youth that other pitchers (even hall of fame caliber ones like glavine, for example) werent able to find, then…
any day of the week i will take a 27 year old pitcher who is lefty (who coincidentally will be pitching for at least 1 more big contract, so has incentive to do well, and lets be honest, its all about money for all players) and entering his prime over a 36 year old past his prime righty who is just looking to make money before he retires, then i will take the 27 year old… anyone who says otherwise is not paying attention…
and im not dishonest…
Lowe has had more good seasons than bad. So which are the anamoly?
Perez has had 2 good seasons. Last year he took a step backward.
I’m not discounting the fact that Perez can still be good. He can have a CY Young type year but he can also follow it up with a clunker.
But Lowe is a better fit for this team with the ingredients to win now. The Mets don’t have the luxury of waiting and hoping for Ollie to find it. They need a guy who can give them 200+ strong innings. Not a guy who looks like a different pitcher every time out.
As far as Lowe’s age being an issue, check his last four seasons, in which he had his highest strikeout totals and his lowest batting averages against (as a starter).
This weakest league argument is nonsense and is completely unsupported by any fact. (see above) In fact, Lowe has pitched just fine against the NL East teams.
If you think he is only a product of Dodger Stadium, then you shouldn’t worry because Shea is not exactly a hitter’s haven.
And a guy who throws the second most groundballs in the NL doesn’t necessarily care which way the wind blows.
If he’s pitching in Shea this season we’re in trouble since it will be a parking lot.
age is not a crap argument… with increased age comes the increased likelihood for injuries and regression… look at any baseball player, not just pitchers… if all you care about is “win now” then you should be a yankees fan… the mets still have a very young core, and trading a 27 year old pitcher who on any given 5th day has the best stuff of any starter available for a 36 year old just because he will pitch 200 innings is ludicrous… and btw, john maine goes less innings per game than perez but everyone loves that guy… why is that? i think its bc of the expectations, because everyone knows that perez is capable of being a very good pitcher and john maine is not going to be anything more than a mediocre pitcher? all i am saying is over 4 years, thinking of the future and not just next year, ollie has more potential to be the number 2/3 guy than lowe… and you can say leagues dont have anything to do with it, but i think most experts will disagree with you… and if you have been watching the mets at all for the past three years, you know how three years ago and two years ago they were below 500 against lefty starters bc of an unbalanced line-up, so thats not bs or whatever you called it… if he is so great, why are the mets the only ones really in on him, and the only ones willing to even go 12 mil a season? if hes the second coming like you seem to think (since he defies the laws of science by getting better with age) why does every other team that needs a sp not want to even touch the 3 year 36 mil deal the mets already offered?
I think your words ring true. Just goes to show how poor the market is for pitchers these days. You guys with young kids out there start making them throw a ball.
Matt writes posts and forms opinions like a hedgefund makes investments.
It’s a blog, not the NY Times. anfd “what I gather” pretty clearly indicates it is an opinion he formed (gut feeling?) from talking with various sources, etc.
He’s less biased, more honest, and has less of an agenda than Pravda….a/k/a the NY Times.
Now, now gip.. The Times has the best sports section in NY – and along with the WSJ – the most factual of all the newspapers out there.
Alright…Derek Lowe is definitely NOT an ace. But he’s a very viable #2. I think we need that type of pitcher on the team. I don’t think 3 years from now he’ll be better than Ollie, but this is a team built to win now. I just think he’s the best option for us right now. Would I rather have a healthy Sheets? Yes. Would I rather have Sabathia..yeah, but this is what’s available. I agree we shouldn’t overpay, but I think Omar has been doing a great job in how he’s approaching this.
Heck, I don’t even think Ollie will be Ollie 3 years from now or 6 months from now or who knows. I liked Ollie enough but you never knew which guy was going to show up and what inning he was going to loose his slot. At least with Lowe, while he’s older he consistent. The Ollie I’m looking for in 3 years is named John Niese. Hopefully sooner.
Somebody correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Willie get a job as the bench coach for Milwaukee, so how are we still paying him if he got a job?
It’s like he is double dipping. He’s getting paid by Milwaukee to be their bench coach and getting paid by the Mets for what?
It is possible that his contract with the Mets is worth more. Also, depending on the terms, the guaranteed money may also play a part.
Without seeing the legalese, this would be my guess.
First, this is my first post, however, I have been a loyal follower of the site since day one….always one of the first sites I hit each morning.
Second, in respect to Redding. I agree, we need another solid starter. Certainly, Redding is no Johan, then again, few are. However, he certainly can be/will be a serviceable 5th starter. Furthermore, think about the # of pitchers that go down each year, e.g.El Duque, Maine and, Pedro….we are going to need a guy like Redding and a guy like Neice to fill in those holes.
Anyone know why the Mets have soured on Oliver so much and so quickly? There is your #5 starter. Downside, he wants #2 money.
On that note, I really don’t want to hear about a budget from the Mets. We are in New York. There is no budget. See the Yankees. Not suggesting we spend like the Yanks, but we can at least be in the same ballpark or at least on-line to the ballpark. New field and in NYC = spend the money…put a winning team on the field.
Matt, keep on the nice work.
ibrip99 is right! Omar, take the offer off the table. It’s a huge mistake. It is very significant that Lowe’s last two years in a competitive division, like ours, he flopped and was dealt. Boston isn’t interested in him. That’s why they haven’t made an offer. Philly isn’t interested either. Nobody is but us, and everybody’s waiting for Lowe to go before bidding opens on Ollie.
Absurdity.
In 50 career innings against Philly (likely all of which were in the last 4 seasons), Lowe has held the mighty two time champions of the mighty NL East to a .237 batting average and is 4-1 with a 3.02 ERA.
Now you are well aware of the facts. You’re welcome.
Excellent counter arguments. I’m back on the Lowe bandwagon, and relieved because I was about to puke.
Anyway, I’m not sure why you’re so impressed with the AL East of 2004 when only the Yankees and Sox were any good.
If you’re saying that division was weak in 2004, that is hardly a ringing endorsement of Lowe. His ERA that year was 5.42.
You’re welcome
You Win ! the best screenname on any blog !lolololol
Are u VCarver ?
No. He/she is not.
I’m cracking up that this hasn’t died yet.
good to see u still here with us VCarver dont let anybody intimidate you ! lol
How did you all miss this? – from Yahoo sports:
“President Bush appointed Mets general manager Omar Minaya to be a member of the President’s Council on Physical Fitness and Sports through May 2010.”
thanks Mr. Boosh – choo know what I’m sayin?
Dr. Kevorkian is also on Bush’s President Council on Physical Fitness. It’s sponsored by McDonalds, and they advocate smoking asbestos.
All I care about is starting rotation.
Oh Sorry there Buckner. Didn’t mean to distract the laser focus going on here
Cleon,
Matt posted about it today. Reading comprehension seems to be a lost art these days.
Dang Gip – settle down – no need to act all snarky. Guess I was just too busy trying to earn a living than reading every post on this site.
maybe if Reagan hadn’t gutted the education system 20 years ago we’d have more literacy in this country.
;-)
Clinton had 8 years to fix things what happened there? Oh that’s right the right wing conspiracy. pfft. God can’t we stick to baseball on these things.
I rather take a risk and sign Ben Sheets for a year or two than have Derek Blowe for 3 or possibly 4 years.
Sheets can be ace-like while Blowe will be mediocre and then below average by the time the end of the contract rolls around.
Agreed. If they could sign Sheets plus Wolf instead of just Lowe, that would be my preference.
The top of the rotation guy we’re seeking can’t be injury prone. We’re done with the El Duques and Pedro Martinezes of the world. Lowe is durable, fairly consistent and fairly good. Yes, Sheets has a higher ceiling, but we need someone we can count on in September. Now, if we’re talking about taking a chance on Sheets for the 5 spot then I would consider a offering him a lower risk (to us) contract with incentives and options.
Sheets is going to throw his arm off at the catcher.
While that’s possible, if the Mets have some big meat-a-balls and take a smart risk with Sheets, he could be huge. Obviously, it can go the other way, but they won’t be locked in for 4 years.
Blowe does not impress me at all.
You must not be paying attention.
Go to baseball-reference.com and after looking at Lowe’s stats for the last four years, I’d be really curious to learn what more he could do to please you.
Way ahead of you with baseball-reference because I looked long before making the post. He’s doing that in one of the best pitcher’s parks in baseball.
He’s also been doing it against some pretty weak competition in the NL West, hence the reason why I’m not overly impressed with him.
He’s going to be 36 next season and it’s not like he’s supposed to get better as he gets older. I could deal with him for 2 years and 12/13 million a season, but that’s not going to cut the mustard obviously.
You might be impressed. You might love Derek LOWE. I am not and I do not.
Take a closer look. Career highs in strikeouts the last two seasons with fantastic batting averages against and the second highest rates of groundballs to flyballs do not suggest a guy who is on the decline. He does not have the wear and tear of a 36 year old after having been a relief pitcher for so long.
His propensity for producing groundballs reduces his reliance on ballparks, wind effects and other unquantifiable effect you can think of. Anyway, when did Shea become a hitter’s haven? And Citifield is already being touted as an extreme pitcher’s park.
And are you seriously scared of the NL East offenses other than Philly? And Lowe has pitched just fine against them.
Over the last 3 years, Lowe’s away ERA is 4.24. That suggests he benefits heavily from Dodgers Stadium or is just a poor road pitcher.
Whatever, it isn’t very good.
“Blowe does not impress me at all.”
May I ask why? I hope it isn’t just because you want to run a cheap joke into the ground.
Nope. It’s not about cheap jokes. I think adding the B to the Lowe is funny because Yankees fans used to do it all of the time and it gave me a chuckle.
I disagree with your opinion of Lowe, but I’m relieved to read that it’s not based on a convenient derogatory nickname.
What kind of contract is Sheets looking for, besides Medical. How many years, how many pizza pies, and who else is gonna be going for him?
I have no idea regarding any of your other questions, but I did see a TV report suggesting that the Texas Rangers are interested in Sheets.
is there a way to change your name on this website??
I think you’d have to start from scratch. In the profile section of the wordpress sign in page it states “username cannot be changed.”
Stats on Lowe vs Ollie
3 year Stats:
Lowe
vs PHIL 2.84/ 25 IP
vs FLA 2.94/ 33 IP
Ollie
vs PHIL 3.38/ 48 IP
vs FLA 3.65/ 69 IP
This favors Lowe, but if you isolate Ollie’s stats to just last years season, he’s impressive
vs PHIL .35 ERA/ 26 IP
vs FLA 2.23/ 36 IP
is anyone as bored as i am with constantly hearing about how the two sides can reach an agreement?..and i dont understand what boras is going to take his time with other offers…who is gonna offer lowe anything?..this is just gonna take another 2 or 3 weeks to sign him…we still arent done with everything..
Absolutely, the only thing that keeps me reading today is some really good research posted on here today. Good job to all since I’ve basically decended into calculating the need for 2 pitchers, 1 bat, a Loogy + 2 bench players and around 35 days to spring training = the need to sign a player every 7 days till they report.
Lots of work to do in a little time and nothing getting done.
exactly…we can talk about signing lowe until we are all blue in the face..nothing is getting done..you hear about teams signing guys..we arent anywhere near complete…and again..we end up signing lowe..who is going to be left?…not everyone is going to be around waiting around for lowe to sign..they need to start moving now…i mean we signed krod and putz a while ago..and since then nothing..
and i do realize pitching is our top priority…so its fine..and the mets apparently offered redding something…thats fine..but it just gonna be constant two sides talking and knowing that an agreement could be reached
OK,
so if your the 1st to comment after a post on this blog
and the comment is questioning the accuracy of the post you get a short to the point reply from the host?
It’s like getting a trophy on the PS3.
COOL…………
As I said earlier today, I don’t t think anything concrete will happen on the Lowe front for at least a week … if at all.
I betcha Boras gave Omar his patented BS spiel but Omar’s BS detector was spot on and he was able to decipher all the bunk.
I’m guessing there is still a standoff now.
I say don’t go over $13.5/3 years for him.
“Gotta stick to the Budget”!!!
jersey, in this case I believe it’s more than the budget. I think Omar has determined in his mind what Lowe’s max market value is and he’s loathe to go over it since there is no one else willing to. Why bid against yourself?
Sort of like when they wouldn’t budge for Zito. Which ended up to be a very fortunate thing.
Closer? Sign KRod. Check.
8th Inning Reliever? Trade for JJ Putz. Check.
Top of the Rotation Starter? Sign Derek Lowe. Hopefully, “Check.”
Then, up next. (1) Dump Castillo; (2) Sign Orlando Hudson; (3) Sign Tim Redding to compete with Niese/Parnell for 5 spot; and (4) Sign Chad Cordero or Juan Cruz for added depth in BP.
by the way..im watching mlb network..this is a great great great great show..hot stove..its awesome…
ohhhh and by the way…for some wierd reason…i feel like omar talked to boras about manny…i know i know…we wont get him…BUT i still think there is a very very slim chance to land him
say no to juan cruz. he’ll cost a pick
Joe Beimel…let’s keep going for the former Dodgers. Need another Lefty in the pen.
And then let’s get a righty bat for the bench. As much as I want Manny, I totally understand why the Mets want no part of him.
i dont
4yr contract could be a disaster. I guess I can live with a buyout. Boras is playing the Mets though. What if the Mets don’t raise their offer? Who is outbidding our original offer?
on mets.com it says mets discussed ALL of boras’ clients…could be a good thing..i dont mean signing them all obviously..but could be good
Can we do something soon please to get us closer to winning in 2009.
I really need to see Mets do in their inaugural season at Citi Fields
the complete opposite of what they did
in their inaugural season at Shea Stadium
1964 NY Mets
Won 53 Loss 109
2009 NY Mets
Win 109 Lose 53
SWEEEEET…….
Forget Derick Blow
Sign Manny and Ollie
Championship!
honestly…what if they can do that?…forget lowe..sign ollie and manny?..you think its too farfetched?
honestly…i dont care what they do..bottom line is whatever it is they want to do..they better start doing it..
VCarver -
I agree with you regarding your earlier comment about Minaya’s opinion of Lowe’s value.
Last thing I wanna see Minaya do is sign another average aging player to a contract that if it doesnt pay off will cripple us from any future moves in 2010 or beyond.
Lowe is average let’s not kid ourselves. He helps yes, but it’s not like he’s the missing link.
According to MLB.com a source said that Boras and the Mets talked about “all of his clients that are availible”
I hope this is true because if it is I think we will get lowe and manny
yeah on mets.com also..it would be REALLY nice if this was the case…get lowe and manny for a good price…that would be an offseason
johan
lowe
pelf
maine
redding/niese
This is a very solid rotation….i see lowe and pelfrey both as #2 starters..i kno alot of ppl arent sure about pelf yet but i really think he will go out and have a tremendous year..maine is a question mark..he was very very good a couple years ago but was not last year…this year he will be fully healthy and i think will be decent.
Also, we have to of the best closers in baseball in the back of the pen to close the games out….there were probably a good 6 or 7 games last year where johan left with the lead and the bullpen blew on him.
in conclsion, we can win the east with this rotation and no other major offensive upgrades.
no we cant…castillo and second…schnider at catcher…murphy/tatis platooning for ALL of next year..who knows which delgado will show up..
**schnieder
castillo played second…schnieder caught….we didnt have a left fielder….we still missed the playoffs by a game….and mainly because of our pen late in the game..lowe is an upgrade over ollie perez too
we dont upgrade our offense some way we wont win
i dont get y u think that…..we have the same exact team as last year…last year we missed tohe playoffs by 1 game….our bullpen blew over 20 saves…..now we have two of the best closers in baseball…if we play the same and we blow a normal amount of saves the division is in our packet
its called internal improvement.
I disagree that just because we’re the same team with a better bullpen we should win the division. Who’s to say Delgado has a stellar second half? Or that Tatis plays out of his mind? Or that Murphy rockets to stardom? Or that Pelfrey pitches like an ace for the majority of the season? I think we CAN be the better team next year, but I think there are looming question marks.
OHH MAN!!!….i just had a really good idea…what if mets are taking their time on the fact that no one is going after manny…even the giants and dodgers are tired of it..what if they know no one is going after lowe/perez and manny and will sweep in and take either lowe/perez AND manny..
MLBTR says Omar talked about Lowe, Ollie and MANNY!!
the mets website is also reporting that Omar talked about “all of” Boras’ clients…they put all of in quotes not me. haha.
i hope this is legit, i just dont understand why they dont just take manny, it makes absolutely zero sense
I know this is none of my business but im worry about the clubhouse (if we sign Manny).
I don’t think it’s in their budget to get Manny. We’d all love to have him next year. But at $22-$25 per year that really straddles the organization. We’re making a move for Lowe and Redding, Omar will have something going for the offense. It’s just not Manny.
i know, but they have the 2nd highest payroll in baseball, they should be able to afford Manny, plus a new stadium with insane ticket prices
Don’t you think that Omar is waiting to sign Lowe first to see what he has left in his budget? Because if he has a substantial amount left, i say go for Manny and take a chance with niese for the 5 spot, I’m sure mets fans woudl be fine with that!
I know that you can make a financial argument for it. As for the fans, there’s no doubt we’d go nuts if Manny came here. I just think that they have planned to allocate the money differently. Look guys, I’d be just as excited as you if they announced that Manny had signed with the Mets. But the organization has an internal budget and it seems that Manny doesn’t fit into that framework. It may be that in 3 years we’re glad that he didn’t sign here. (I doubt it, but who knows?)
yea i know what you mean. with all this money coming in the wilpon’s should stop being so cheap and sign Manny, if of course we can address the SP’s with a good price. To Do List:
Sign Lowe
Sign Manny
Trade/release castillo
sign hudson
trade/sign for another reliever, preferibly lefty
now thats a nice ballclub
Do I read that to mean you’ve placed those in order of priority? I tend to agree that signing Lowe has to be our first consideration then (in order):
#5
LF
LHRP (or righty who shuts down lefties)
Bench
2B (if anythin can be done)
C (in a dream world where we can do anything)
For our catching situation i think we’re gonna sign Pudge (i don’t know if it will work but…)
I knew you Manny guys would read that and go nuts. LOL I wouldn’t complain if it happened, but I just don’t see it.
now i wouldnt say im going nuts..however…they can get lowe for that deal..or even a little more to make him happy..lets talk manny..
LOL…you’re the Manny ringleader. I have to say, sometimes you inspire even me to hope.
lol…yeah i was…but the past couple of weeks i grew tired of talking about him..lol..well thats good..as long as i put some hope in you..lol..
lets face it manny isnt getting the kind of money he wants..
Okay, now this is interesting. I absolutely agree he’s not getting the money he wants. Where do you think he ends up money-wise? I’m thinking something like 2/$50. Seems likely.
You’re the money man sabes…but I don’t think he gets 25 a year. I think the LA offer for 45 goes down.
i was thinking something like that…but i think he will want at least 3 years…i think 3/60…which is why mets wont do it
but like dwight just said..you are the money man…so ill trust you…2/50…that would be nice if at all it can be that…
Do you think we could afford 2/$50 realistically? I mean of course we can in a dream world…but within a budget?
yeah i agree with you…and i know they have a budget….again if they can get lowe for a little more than they are offering…look at manny…like everyone else says…going into a new stadium…the chance of being able to bring manny to queens and put people in seats…even if you g over by a little…you dont think they should sign him?
I think if he could be had for under $20 a year we’d be all over it, I’m just not convinced he will go THAT low.
you see thats what im talking about…because of the fact that NO ONE is looking at him..he wants to play…you offer him like you said 2/50 or like mine 3/60…along with lowe…keep niese in the 5 spot..keep castillo at second and schnieder catching..like you said do I think he will go that low?..i dont think so..but the fact that no one is interested in him…he will eventually have to drop his numbers down
this could be talked about all day..lol…ive moved past manny..but after the headline mets to about “all of” boras’ clients..its lead me to believe again..lol..and since thats the mets motto..im gonna..lol.
naaaa if he were to go under 20m a year then why would he not accept the dodgers office, btw is anyone going to opening day?????I am, soooo excited
and maybe he doesnt want to be with the dodgers..lol…just keep SOME hope alive..lol
krod, dwight…I got to run, lots of work tomorrow. I’ll catch you guys tomorrow (I’ll check your responses then).
Everyone keeps harping on the problem areas of second base, catcher, the left field situation, will Delgado do it again. Think of it this way: Castillo can’t be any worse (or can he), Scheider can’t be any worse, Delgado was flat out bad for the first two months, and left field was a revolving door all of last year. All that and we missed the playoffs by a game. If Castillo and Schneider come even close to their career numbers, Delgado is average (that means .265, 30 HR, 95 RBI) and the LF platoon somehow manages 20 HR, 80 RBI, I think we’ll be OK. I know I’m forgetting Church in this equation, but the fact that the Mets haven’t tried to make a move to improve RF leads me to believe he’s OK. If the guy can stay healthy, we could be good. Yeah, I’d love to see an upgrade at one of the other spots, but if not, we’ll be right there.
I miss the old format. This sux.
yea the old format was better, but sign manny and i would care less what matt does lol
im just annoyed we keep hearing of other clubs signing other players and mets are nowhere in sight of lowe or anything else..lets get a move on!!!
enterkrod, i agree. im just wondering how old are you???
im 18..lol..can you tell on my impatience?..lol
yes haha dont worry im 17, thats how i could tell
remember, no one thought that we were close to johan last year. Manny = last years Johan????
lol..haha alright…well thats why you can agree…lol…lets just get a damn move on…im going nuts here
tell me about it, i hope i see manny in left field from my promenade level seats next year haha
thats what im thinking..that would be nice…lol..comes out manny is signed by mets..ohhhhh man..i would go nuts
I gotta think that Castillo will be outright released. I think they are just trying to get something out of him if they can.
The reason I think this is because they can not keep him around for three more years.
Once Lowe is signed (and it will be Lowe) and then Redding, Orlando Hudson will be a Met. There is a reason why there has been no talk about him so far.
I’m real curious as to why Wilpon was there. Will the powers that be now hold a pow-wow to see if it’s time to jump in on Manny? I think Lowe is a forgone conclusion. He’s coming to the Mets. I would bet by the end of the week. But maybe Omar played his cards just right and like the previous poster said we can come away with Manny as well. Until he signs somewhere else, I don’t believe the Mets aren’t in on him.
you know i thought the same thing…its a bit wierd that the wilpons were there…i mean..they were there when they got krod….can that be leading toward manny?..lol..lets hope so
if the mets get manny i will streak the first game……orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr just be extremely extatic
absolutely…that would be awesome…although matt thinks otherwise..he says talking to people minayas last major move will be a front end starter…i disagree because i keep hopeful..lol
…and from what I can gather, I was wrong
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…..your name just says it all…lol
LoL Love the name
from what i could gather HAHAHAHAHA AWESOME NAME! HAHAHA
matt, your 9:15 update just made me very very sad :(….hopefully these sources are wrong. lets just stop pretending we are florida and spend some money!
Cause, you know, having 4 times Florida’s budget is making us look like paupers.
you know what i mean
We have a 13 million dollar closer and a 5 million dollar set up man, who is due to make 8m next season.
The Mets have hardly been cheap, especially considering their payroll is usually in the top 2 or 3 in the league.
then why stop there?..lol..lets bring in manny!!!
okay evreyone chill out what i meant was that we arent the marlins and if we need to spend a few extra bucks we can loll
im with you
me too lets just cut castillo and sign odog while we are at it
Omar is just playing everything real close to the vest this offseason so these next two weeks should bring lots of excitement to Met fans everywhere. I think we’ll see more than Derek Lowe before long.
i think so too…im keeping hopeful
no matter what sabes says..lol..wherever he went
I get the sense.
maybe the office got the petition..lol
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL From What I can gather,I get the sense that I can gather.
hahahahahahahahaahahahaha….amen to that…lolololololol
here is how to solve all problems:
get these guys:
lowe
manny
hudson
perez
cora
dunn/abreau
bad?
well that sound pretty poor, ur right. only thing id change is dunn/abreu. why do we need them if we got manny? replace them with a reliever…………also………proofs are relevant, gonna need them in life…and im not going to po[ening day, ur rite
That’s incredibly stupid, unless you purposely wanted to add $80 million more to the budget and force them to jack up ticket prices again.
not if you do that and take out dunn/abreu choice, it helps the team WIN. isnt that the main goal?
replace perez with wolf
at least you know how to spell opening LOL. forgot i had both them in there. bring a lefty in pen instead. yea and im sure you have good seats?
but wait, every seat in the house isnt a good seat your right, and guess i care anyway, would take top seats at shea for the deal i got.
in order:
sign lowe
sign manny
release/trade castillo, sign hudson
get another lefty reliever
ballclub
agreed
At this point another lefty in the bullpen is probably last on the things-to-do list.
i know, thats why i put it last lol
A little much. I think Omar is at a crossroads. Get Lowe and either Perez or Wolf and have a pretty dominant starting 5 along with a strong bullpen and good, not great offense, or sign Lowe and Redding ($2.5 million) and go for a solid offensive upgrade if for nothing else but to give the perception that they are changing (or adding to) the nucleus that failed so many times in the clutch the last two years. Will it be Manny? Who knows. But, like I said before, Omar has been low-key this offseason, so a Dunn or Abreu signing wouldn’t surprise me, or a trade for a decent outfielder wouldn’t stun me.
i would rather get lowe and redding then lowe and ollie or wolf while getting an offensive upgrade (manny odog)
i wud think if wilpons did omar the option of getting manny it wud be 2 years max
id agree that if we got manny and lowe wed go with niese as 5th starter and someone cheap for last bp spot
no problem there
Rocco Baldelli is now a Red Sock
my uncle played amateur baseball with him
Is he really? I missed that. I was actually hoping the Mets would at least consider him. If you saw him the World Series, he can play.
If rocco pans out as a DH, which he should, im sure the Whitest Team in Baseball will look to cut ties with Ortiz. He’s been terrible since Manny was shipped out of town.
manny would probably pay for himself in ticket sales & merchandising.
not to mention the money they would reap in post season appearances would probably pay for the whole offseason.
I honestly don’t think that is the problem. I think it’s a matter of perception. The Wilpons have always been big on character guys and want to be looked up to as a franchise and that’s not a bad thing. But sometimes you have to give a guy the benefit of the doubt. Yes Manny was a jerk on how he manuevered his way out of Boston, but maybe it was time for him to move on. This will likely be his last contract, so maybe, just maybe he’ll try his hardest knowing that a spot in the Hall of Fame is not too far down the road, plus another title or two. Sorry for rambling.
In Omar, we trust.
I would love Lowe and Manny, but from What Matt can gather he doesn’t get the sense that he can gather.
lol i like the name
how bout we all pay the wilpons 5 dollars each to get manny…that should cut his payroll a bit…and i think almost everyone on this site would pay 5 dollars if not 10 or 20…..lol i dont kno how many ppl are on this site but im guessing there is alot
I would MUCH rather give $5 to cut castillo.
Justin Upton is on the MLB Network right now talking about how important Orlando Hudson was in the clubhouse, keeping everybody loose every day. I cant believe Slappy is going to **** us over this much. This team’s skid started when Valentin broke his leg on that foul ball, and we traded for that loser (the only met with a LOSING record).
I’ll give $10 to each.
ill go balls out and give them each 20 haha
id even be ok with olliw/manny double if money was an issue
i think we will just have to be even more impatient because they havent done anything yet
Lowe
Manny
Redding
Cora/Eckstein
some scrap heap relievers
thats all that needs to be done
Exactly!
as easy as that..lol…if only if only
People will scoff at your suggestion, but now that Andruw Jones has been practically bought out, can we expect the same with Castillo? That would change a lot of things if he’s gone.
a post on MLBTR, and various comments (from listening to showws on XM) all point to there being a lot of FAs that are going to be out in the cold this year.
So, a bunch of guys are going to be desperately looking for jobs as late as ST.
Omar may be biding his time with some of the last holes to fill, and saving some budget, hoping to snag someone on the cheap that falls through the cracks.
So for the people that think Lowe would be Omars last big move, at least before ST, just might be right.
But that doesn’t mean that C, 2B or LF still don’t get changed. It may just not be until March.
As a fan, don’t you find that unsettling? The Mets are in business, yes to win championships, but they want to sell tickets, particularly in advance. But if they’re trying to be cheap to fill spots, some people are going to see that and not want to spend well-earned money to watch a team acting like the Pirates or Royals.
I’m guessing seats will be sold anyway with a new stadium.
And I don’t mean they are bottom feeding. Rather, waiting for good players to fall to them at below market rates, or 1 year deals. Kind of like with Lohse last year.
Especially for back ups or MR guys, instead of going big money/multiple years, it gives them a bunch more flexibility to get a 1 year low money deal.
Or, a player you want to lock up (say, Dunn) could end up fitting into the budget when you didn’t expect him to.
You Gotta Believe!!!
Seriously, though, although this report does not mean we’re going after Manny, it does mean we have interest in a LF. So I do think we’ll end up with one of Manny, Dunn, or Abreu.
could u imagine if omar somehow traded for halladay….i know it would never happen but that would be rediculous…IMO he is one of the most domanant pitcher in the entire mlb.
FWIW: Al Lieter on MLBTV said he’d rather have Ollie than Lowe. Age, Lefty, the left-handed hitters on philly, and getting more mature were his factors.
where’s nostradamus when manny talk is actually warranted??!! I saw the update to the thread, and logged on, and figured he’s be in here, going absolutely ballistic!!!
He’s probably doing something a lot less important like working! Oh well, tomorrow is another day.
I know. I definitely expected him to be ranting and raving now.
As a long time Met fan, if we did get Lowe/Manny or Ollie/Manny, it would give me that “feeling” that the 80s Met team used to give me.
One could only hope.
yeah, i mean i still dont expect us to get him, but the fact that they spoke about him is something….and in all seriousness, he does make just way too much sense for us to not even look into….
nostra probably caught wind that manny was mentioned at the meeting, and is running around his house right now, with no clothes on, dancing around like a maniac
Too much information.
sorry….i just find it terribly amusing that on a post about the weather, nostra is there going crazy for manny, and now there is one that acutally warrants a little manny chat, and he’s nowhere to be found…
Just watched the MLB Hot Stove and heard Leiter’s comments too about Ollie. I know I’m in the minority here but I really have a feeling Ollie is going to be more consistent this year. That being said, not sure if an Ollie signing would be better than Lowe. But man, how great would it be if we could get both? I really be happy with that rotation.
And how great is this new MLB network? Other than the WS games with the Phills being played over and over during the day, their night time shows are great. That one last night on the history of the game was really good. I have a little less baseball withdrawal symptoms since MLBN started up….
Please understand that it is not my intention or desire to denigrate the feeling you have about Ollie, I just wish there were some evidence to point to that supported it, then I might feel it too.
I understand the sentiment on that. I have no proof to offer. I do believe this year it’s going to be ‘do or die’ for Ollie. Normally left handed hurlers like him take a little longer to get it together. He doesn’t do it this year, he’s never going to do it. I’m just leaning towards he’s finally going to turn that corner this year….
to all met fans…………..lowe and manny or lowe and ollie??? pitching wins championships
Nothing like watching Mets fans excitement
at the renewed hope of bringing in a player
that can generate such anticipation of
Monstrous Blasts at Citi Fields that with
a little luck will strike fear to the
hearts of pitchers throughout the
NL.
Amazin,Amazin,Amazin,
You Gotta Believe!!!
=)
Well said.
Citifield would shake from the cheers.
Shake,
Women would be having like orgasmic X-plosions.
=)
Too bad that, according to one recent statistical analysis, 29% of them will just be fly ball outs.
Gravedigger -
No! Bad Gravedigger No!
Smoltz to sign with Red Sox…
I know it’s a pretty d.umb question but I never purchased tickets online, usually it’s on the phone or in person. Are the 15 game weekend tickets single game tickets that are going on sale tomorrow?
Just asking,
When Matt says
“I do not believe their talks extended to include Oliver Perez and Manny Ramirez.”
Does he mean it’s his opinion based on pure speculation or is it based on some inside off the record source or something?
From what I can gather, I get the sense that Matt gets the sense that he can gather. Meaning that he gets the sense, I hope that answers your question.
LOL definitely keep that name
O My God,
Im reading article in Daily News titled “Where Manny Ramirez will end up in ‘09 is still an offseason mystery”
There is a “Manny being the man” mp3 on page it is “HILARIOUS” I mean I can just see “Manny being the man 2009 NY Mets edition”
I tried to post link but i think you are not allowed just go to Daily News site look for article it will be on page 2 of article.
Hey all. I am a longtime reader and a first time commenter that felt the need to throw my 2 cents in on this subject and a couple of others.
The first topic I need to discuss, at least as a longtime Met fan and semi knowledgeable baseball fan, is that of signing Derek Lowe. Generally speaking, I feel any of you see him as an upgrade over Perez need your heads checked (with all due respect). When did a 27 yr old lefty who throws 94 become so expendable? While he may be a headcase, his talent cannot be ignored, and if the Mets let Perez walk they will regret it forevermore, especially for a 36 yr old with a mediocre track record (even in today’s absurd market). If they let Ollie walk, the only rational fill in in the rotation would be Ben Sheets (how does Burnett with equal arm troubles get suitors yet Sheets has no offer… sick sick market), not Derek. Overall, say no to Lowe! (And this inconsistent argument is nonsense, Perez, save for 5 starts or so, is superb and can throw gooseggs over 7. Why do you all like Maine who is also far worse?) Somebody who is rational please let Met fans and the media see the error in their ways on this one…
While I agree with you all on some matters (and yes this post is longwinded), namely on Manny and the need to rid ourselves of Castillo, where did all of this love for Daniel Murphy come from?? His ceiling is as a slap hitter, and the only place he would fit next yr is on the bench or 2b, not enough thunder for LF or 1B… His value may never be higher, not that they should rush to trade him but it isn’t beyond consideration. Also, don’t make Fmart so expendable, I’ve seen him play he will blossom. For now that is all, but for the love of Turk Wendell please stop overvaluing Lowe, it is just a bad FA market in this era…
I agree with you. I dont think lowe is that good and shouldn’t cost us more than $12 million per year.
In a semi normal world I wouldn’t exceed 2 yrs at 9 mil per for Lowe, and if that doesn’t land him as a #4 (yes he is a 4 at best lol) then good riddance. I much rather take a flier on Sheets and most importantly, throw 4 yrs and 13-14 mil per for Perez (this should have been done in October or day 1 of free agency). I mean seriously, a young, hard throwing lefty being chased out of town?? It is not like he is Rick Ankiel (minus the bat) and cannot be turned into an ace. I’ll even go nuts and say on pure stuff, Perez can be more dominant than Santana. Why let him prosper elsewhere and slot in a guy who went 13-10?
You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about, and it’s especially ridiculous to call OTHER people out for it.
Derek Lowe has pitched to an ERA under 4.00 and 200 innings the last 4 years. Perez has never pitched 200 innings, and has thrown for an ERA under 3 just twice in his career.
Perez is expendable because he walked over a 100 batters, had an ERA of 4.5, and had an ERA over 5 in 3 months of the year.
There is nothing to suggest that Perez will ever become the stud he supposedly is destined to become.
With all due respect, look at the stats, facts, and get a clue.
he does have a clue… look at the mets track record with past their prime pitchers – pedro, 1 good season, glavine, maybe 1 good season, elduque, 9 good starts, and this is just recently… you dont dole out the cash to a pitcher on the wrong side of 35… im sorry… baseball players arent fine wines or whiskeys, they actually get WORSE as they get older… and playing in la, in that bigger pitchers park, in a much much much weaker hitting division certainly padded his stats… look at what he did his last two years in boston, i think that is far more indicative of what he is capable of when playing actual good teams in a competitive division…
a 27 year old LEFTY stike out pitcher? whose upside is huge and whose stuff is head and shoulders better than lowe’s should not be chased out of town… you are being too short sighted… yes, maybe derek lowe pitches 200 innings next season, so a 4 era, but for the next 3-4 years? you are playing with fire my friend… you need to get the clue… i can count the pitchers on one hand who performed even close to their career averages ages 36-40 in this decade, and they are all hall of famers (randy johnson, tom glavine, greg maddux, and roger clemens – although he cheated so i guess he doesnt really count)… derek lowe is none of those, not even in the same breath… you dont toss out 27 year old lefties in this day and age, in the new mlb when most teams (apparently except for the mets) are trying to get younger, when the guy clearly has the MOST UPSIDE and on any 5th day the BEST STUFF of anyone available… steve trachsel was remarkably consistent too, and noone was jumping up and down to retain him…
Lowe had one bad year in Boston. And also, from everything I’ve heard, CitiField is going to be a pitcher’s park..
STUFF and UPSIDE don’t count for S.HIT when the said starter is an IDIOT, has NO CONTROL. Perez will NEVER, and I mean, NEVER live up to his potential…..
Harsh prognosis, although I will raise you. As soon as next yr, Lowe will go 12-10 with at best a 3.90 ERA while Perez goes at least 15-8 with a 3.65 or better. Lowe is cashing in on a skewed market (I do not want to even count the obscure happenings like Sheets no offer while Burnett strikes gold, Penny for pennies, Dunn with no offer, etc.). Thank you Meche. Lilly, and Silva for driving hte price of mediocrity up while smart teams lock up excellence.
what makes you think Perez will just wake up one day and be able to throw strikes???
Oliver Perez’s ERA in his last 6 starts was over 6. He CHOKED in his start against the Cubs and cost us the game and our lead on the division and wildcard.
he only went 5.1 IP in the last game of the season. We needed him to go at least 7 with that awful bullpen.
Ollie is living off one big game (which btw should have been a loss if not for Endy).
He had 10 W and a 4.22 ERA which is not good at all and has shown no signs of improvement.
I think its a little ridiculous to give him a multi-year deal in hopes that he might wake up one day and be an ace…
Welcome aboard The Eephus,
I agree with you (your post was long winded) if I may add I think most would tell you if they had a choice it would be Ollie over Lowe 8 out of 10 times. It’s just Ollie might be harder to sign that’s all. Mind you, it’s just an opinion.
no GM would want Perez over Lowe.
BTW not to sound like a Minaya hater, bc I like what he has done in general (good moves far outweigh bad) but how can the Red Sox make runs and get Smoltz and Penny yet we cannot multitask? I mean I do not love Smoltz at this age, but I like his upside far more than Lowe’s, and Penny is a steal at that price. Why was there no clamoring for him at the back end at that bargain? I will say that I welcome the idea of Redding if all else fails. In my ideal universe, Perez and Sheets come in, then Perez and Lowe, then some combo of Sheets, Redding, Lowe, and Perez (2/3 although the combo should include one of Sheets or Perez).
If Lowe doesnt get $$$ he think he’s worth…you think it’ll affect his performance?
Doubtful, but he still won’t have half the impact Manny will in an off year.
The Eephus & Sylar,
You sound like little kids
“Oh Yeah? Yeah, blah blah blah”
All your 2009 player predictions is just a Pi$$ing contest.
I suggest grow up a little
“As soon as next yr, Lowe will go 12-10 with at best a 3.90 ERA while Perez goes at least 15-8 with a 3.65 or better”
First off, pitcher’s W/L records are useless in determining a pitcher’s effectiveness. Second, there’s absolutely nothing to suggest that either of those things will happen. Perez had an ERA of 4.53 last year, and walked over 100 batters, what makes you think he’ll suddenly turn it around next year? As for Lowe, yes a slight dropoff can be expected, but he should age well, considering he’s a groundball pitcher…
“Lowe is cashing in on a skewed market ”
Quite the contrary actually. In a normal market, he’d be getting 4 years, $64 million, which is probably fair considering what pitchers worse than him got. Finally, it’s funny you mention Gil Meche and Ted Lilly, because both of those contracts have worked out very well for their respective teams so far. Lowe isn’t mediocrity, and Perez is far from excellence…
While I’ll give you a slight nod on the Lilly contract, has Meche been that great for KC? I suffered with him on my fantasy teams and know he is up and down. As for Perez getting better, I just think it is all in the delivery and mechanics, which a yr of a different pitching coach can cure. He rarely gets hit hard, and I think that is a good sign. And when I say skewed market, I am referring to the moment the Lillys, Silvas, Zitos, Meches, etc. of the world were bestowed big double digit contracts, retroactive I’d say 3-4 yrs ago. Only Zito at that time was even a 2, so the prices always smelled funny and ever since the SP market has skyrocketed.
Oliver Perez had a 3.66 ERA while averaging over 6 innings a start under Dan Warthen….
Manny Ramirez’ Range Factor w/Dodgers = 1.90%
Daniel Murphy’s Range Factor = 1.84%
Manny Ramirez’ Fielding% w/Dodgers = .979
Daniel Murphy’s Fielding% = .962
Oliver Perez’s ERA in his last 6 starts was over 6. He CHOKED in his start against the Cubs and cost us the game and our lead on the division and wildcard.
he only went 5.1 IP in the last game of the season. We needed him to go at least 7 with that awful bullpen.
Ollie is living off one big game (which btw should have been a loss if not for Endy).
He had 10 W and a 4.22 ERA which is not good at all and has shown no signs of improvement.
I think its a little ridiculous to give him a multi-year deal in hopes that he might wake up one day and be an ace…
Number 1, we wouldn’t be paying him like an ace so why would we expect him to be an ace? Should he pitch like one – gravy, but he doesn’t have to be one. Personally, I think he’ll continue to grow as a player, and put up better numbers than he has in the past.
I don’t know why you’re attempting to fault him for his performance in the last game of the year. He pitched 5.1 innings of 2 run ball. What’s so bad about that? It wasn’t his fault that he was taken out after 5.1 innings, he only had thrown 85 pitches. It was a huge game, and Manuel may have lifted him a little early…which I’m not really gonna fault him for, it’s understandable considering the circumstance.
Lastly, but certainly not least…Jerry Manuel has stumped hard for a return of Ollie, and I think Omar will accommodate the request….it makes a lot of sense to bring Ollie back..whether you acknowledge it, or want to acknowledge it…Ollie should come back.
5.1 IP and 2 ER is not good not when you have a makeshift bullpen. Jerry took him out b/c Ollie was about to have a meltdown.
Ollie was awful last season. His ERA over 8 away from the division is horrible. Let that choke artist go someplace else and get a 1st rounder in return…
How are you calling him a choke artist? He pitched well for us in every big game he’s ever been in pretty much. 5.1 innings and 2 runs allowed in a game where EVERYTHING was on the line was coming up big…he could’ve ended up going 7 with 2 earned if left in…we don’t know what would have happened…what did happen was that he went 5.1 with 2 earned runs allowed…which was a lot better than what Tom Glavine did for us the previous year…now that was a choke special…
Ollie OWNED the yankays and OWNED the Phillies…that right there is more than enough for me, but he also pitched very well against Florida and Atlanta too….Ollie is key, I WANT OLLIE BACK!!!
I think there is such a difference of opinion on Ollie b/c we all seen the best and worst of him. I’ve seen him cruise through 6 innings only giving up a smattering of hits and no runs. I’ve also seen him not get out of the first. Seen him give up 8 walks but limit the damage and still manage to get the win.
That is the definition of inconsistent…
What really baffles me is I’ve never seen a pitcher do what he does. He’ll be cruising along, going good, in the 4th inning or so and all of a sudden you’ll see him let go with a sidearm pitch that has never been in his repertoire. Used to drive Peterson crazy. And why does he do that? What does he get bored on the mound.
I’m in the camp though of thinking Ollie will finally turn it around this year and win us at least 15 solid games – should we sign him.