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Jeff Wilpon gave Scott Boras and his assistant a tour of Citi Field yesterday, after which the group had lunch with Omar Minaya and other team executives to discuss Derek Lowe and Oliver Perez.
From what I understand, Boras met with team executives on Tuesday evening as well, in New York City.
In Newsday, Ken Davidoff writes, “If Manny Ramirez’s name came up, it appears that didn’t spark much conversation,” according to people familiar with the discussion.
Additionally, Steve Popper in the Bergen Record writes, “According to one person involved in the discussions, the two sides did not discuss Ramirez.”
I agree, which is why I wrote last night that Manny wasn’t discussed at all, which is a shame. Also, talks regarding Perez and Alex Cora were limited, with most of the discussion centering on Lowe, as you would expect.
According to Popper, Minaya has never discussed Ramirez with Boras, and has not ‘broached the subject to ownership.’
I’m starting to think this is more of a budget issue, in that signing Lowe or Perez, a veteran fifth starter, a back-up middle infielder, and maybe another relief pitcher, will likely put the team over their projected budget, and so I would not expect any major free-agent addition on offense.
Meanwhile, in the New York Times, Ben Shpigel adds, “In the end, should the Mets offer another $1 million annually and/or a fourth-year vesting option, Boras and Lowe may find that suitable.”
Like I wrote last night night, according to people connected to Lowe, the Mets will eventually need to grant a fourth-year option, and may need to pay more per season than they initially offered, but not $15 million – and the Mets are open to this.
In other words, like Joel Sherman of the New York Post wrote yesterday, I’m thinking Lowe could eventually cost Minaya a three-year, $42 million deal, with a performance-based fourth-year option and a team buyout.
By the way, Mike Puma of the New York Post writes, “Some believe the Nationals could be a suitor for Lowe, the best available starter on the market, given that Washington needs an ace and wasn’t shy about entering the Teixeira sweepstakes.”
Ugh, and of course there will be a Mystery Team, I’m sure.
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I wouldn’t mind Ollie. He’s 8 years younger. Has yet to realize his potential. AND he’d come cheaper, which would allow us to pursue a viable 5th starter, like Tim Redding instead of some retread like Freddy Garcia…
believe this….if the mets do not sign manny, it will go down as the biggest 2009 BLUNDER that the mets made in missing the playoffs. pitching is important no doubt, but adding manny would be worth every penny.
Can someone from the “Manny will bring us a WS title” camp please explain something to me… What exactly do you propose our rotation should look like? I’m all for Manny in a 1-2 year deal because our lineup would look better, but if we only have 3 real starters it won’t matter if we have Manny and Pujols taking turns through all 9 spots in the lineup. We are without 2 starting pitchers, doesn’t that seem like the bigger concern?
there is NO REASON why the mets could not do lowe+wolf+manny…or redding/garland instead of lowe….with niese/parnell in the wings.
And how many millions of your personal money are you donating to the sign Manny fund?
Exactly, MetsLV….I’m in the Manny camp too, but before he should be discussed, there are other more pressing needs for the team, like starting pitching. Omar obviously has an operating budget he needs to stick to. I’d love for Manny to be here, but if the Wilpons can’t spend more than say $150M on payroll, while paying back city bonds, then so be it.
I doubt he’ll come that much cheaper than Lowe. I bet ollie gets 12 per from someone.
Madoff has our Manny money. He jacked Wilpon for it. Now, we have to pay the price.
it definitely is a shame…they shoulda used this meeting to talk about ALL THREE, and try to get the “boras 3pack discount!”
BUt manny or no manny, we should really stop acting like a small market team and sign lowe AND ollie…u really just can’t have enough starting pitchers
Starting to agree. If they took contracts like Krod taking a hit this year and geting more in the next years we would be in good shape.
We have Wagner and Delgado coming off next year and most likely will not be replacing them with costly FA.
probably not. It seems like Holliday is going to be the only “big name” player in the FA cla-ss, and I’m sure the Yankees already have his jersey made.
Irrelevant now, but also why, unless they plan to go with in house talent in LF and 1B in 2010 (say F Mart and Murphy), they should have made the move on Tex. Or even Dunn if the price is really going to be low.
I’m thinking there will some trades made by Omar soon, once he locks in Lowe or Perez (and probably Redding).
I don’t expect us to seriously go after Manny, but even if we were, I wouldn’t expect we would announce or even leak that we were talking to Boras about him.
And I find it very hard to believe that Minaya hasn’t even broached the topic to the Wilpons – if even in the context of “we don’t go after him but monitor the situation.”. If anything, this make it sound like they’re following a simple “deny everything” strategy, which could mean anything.
Why is it a shame they didn’t discuss Manny? The Mets aren’t the Yankees; they do not have unlimited money to spend. Manny will cost roughly twice the per year salary as Lowe or Perez, so it’s obvious they can’t sign one of those to pitchers and Manny. I think everyone here would agree upgrading the pitching is more important than upgrading the offense.
Sign both.
Lowe 3/40 looking like this
10/15/15
Perez 4/43 looking like this
7/12/12/12.
That would leave us money this year to get a guy like Wiggy for LF. Then next year when their salaries went up it would be just using up the Wagner money.
not going to happen…
Why?, don’t just say not going to happen.
The Mets want to go with a Redding/Niese tandem as the 5 starter…
And that’s why they have an offer out to Wolf?
when did the Mets make an offer to Wolf. They made an offer to Redding but i never read anything about Wolf…
It was on MLBtraderumors yesterday or the day before. Go check it out.
Signing both is a better option than upgrading the offense significantly. If you arent going to get a big RH power threat ie. Manny there is no reason to just give a guy like Bobby Abreu a job.
Sign Lowe, Ollie, Cordero (if he impresses), Cora, and I also like Gabe Kapler. I think it would be good to have 2 right handed platoon options/bench players in case Church struggles against lefties. Kapler killed lefties last year and has been successful his whole career and never been more than a part-time player, he wouldnt cost much.
the backloading might be a bit risky… Wright, Reyes and K-rod are already due much more in 2010 than in 2009. Not considering arbitration salary increases.
thereal
always good for great post early in the morning..
might have to go 45 on ollie, with 1 mil extra in the last 3 years
Let’s just say lowe will cost the mets 13/14 million and redding will cost 3/4 million. For that kind of money I think I’d rather have ollie and garland. Ollie10/11 million and garland 7/8 million.
AH great point. I would love to have Perez Garland as they are both young.
id rather have the better pitcher, thats just me
Of course. I would love to have the best pitcher as well. I’m just looking at it from the stand point of having a very deep and very young rotation. I agree hands down that lowe is a much better pitcher right now then perez and garland.
how can anyone want Ollie after the performance he put up in his start against the Cubs???
Delgado hits a grand slam to put the Mets up 5-1 and Ollie gives it all right back…
a) agreed we do not have unlimited resources
b) how can a team with a +140 payroll be acting like a small market club?
c) Not a wise thing to spend money that you dont even have yet (ie – the wagner money) we dont need both lowe and ollie. if you are going to spend wagners money you should spend it on dunn
how does Adam Dunn make the Mets win in September???
because hes an upgrade over murphy/tatis
id rather go with Murphy and keep that money set aside for a mid season pick up
but whats wrong with dunn’s 40 jacks and 100 ribeyes? i know he k’s a lot and plays crap D, but his OBP is respectable.
My only gripe with Dunn is LHP eats him up which means he’ll probably need to be platooned. We already have a platoon, and I’d rather spend the money elsewhere if it’s not going to land an everyday starter.
if ur gunna pay dunn 15 million than why not chuck up another 10 for manny who will hit just as many homers, strike out less, drive in more runs, and hit for 100 points higher average?
no way dunn costs 15 mil a year. 2 /20 is my guess
I would take at 2 for 20 in a heartbeat. He can play left for this year and move to first when delgado leaves. There’s alot of things he’s not great at but the guy is a monster. Great power and a terrific eye at the plate. It would also strengthen the bench. I would love to be able to use murphy or tatis of the bench.
The real twist is Lowe and Perez signed by the Mets.
Can the Mets add $26M to the current budget?
The answer is yes.
I still don’t think they would have to this year. They could use the economy in their favor like they did Krod and give less this season and more next season. We have Delgado and Wagner coming off next season. That should help any increases next year.
Remember though – some of the money coming off the books next season is countered by raises to Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Delgado, and K-Rod.
Whoops…I meant Johan, not Delgado.
oleo – again with the reference to ONE ollie start as your reason to dump him…
with your logic beltran should be traded because he struck out in game 7 with tying run on base?
how about the fact that his ERA was 4.22 and over 6.50 in his last 6 starts
or the fact that he walked 105 batters last season
or the fact that he averages less than 6 IP per start
or the fact that we’ll get a 1st rounder if he signs elsewhere
but you loved him in 07 didnt you? did ollie not have 17+ quality starts last year? so what he regressed (a little). if he was 36 and regressed like that ide say let him walk, but, hes still young which shows his subpar year was more mental than physical. he can turn it back around.
While I love the stat quality start as it turns out it is much more effective than people think, Ollie is the anti-good use of the stat. What those 17 QS don’t show is how many RSS he had (new stat invented by me, Really Shiiitty Start. Less than 5 innings or less and 4 runs or more). Ollie had 6 of those starts. In comparison
The results below may surprise you
Lowe 4
Garland 6
Wolf 7
Redding 7
Sheets 0
I’m sending your RSS stat to Bill James for inclusion in his next book. Love it.
I am curious how you feel about Maine if you feel this way about Perez haha.
maine was hurt last year. he was on his way to being a legit #2 starter. theres no reason he cant return to ‘07 form
Didn’t he pick up some small injuries the year before? And regardless, when he was healthy, he didn’t really go past six innings much last season. I think he was fantastic getting ahead in the count, 0-2 and quickly. But then he has trouble in my opinion finishing the batter off. Possibly needs to bring back his curveball he scrapped day 1 because he hurt his finger one time. Thanks to the Jacket.
THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS A DISCOUNT IN THIS DAY AND AGE AND WITH SCOTT BORAS-FORGETABOUTIT. JUST SIGN LOWE, BRING IN A FEW LEFTY RP TO COMPETE IN SPRING TRAINING AND LET NIESE AND PARNELL COMPETE FOR #5 STARTER. THERE MUST BE A BETTER OPTION FOR BACKUP INF OTHER THAN CORA. OMAR SHOULD TAKE HIS TIME WITH THAT ONE
I like the idea of signing Redding, if he is really going for ~2.5mill, to compete for the 5th spot. Just likely to give more stability than Neise/Parnell.
Plus, offs are you will need a 6/7/8 starter at some point, so better the young guys go to the minors (or parnell, maybe the pen) to get fine tuned.
Or they could win the job in ST, and Redding could just go to the pen (or even get traded).
I really think its beyond incredible how no Manny discussions took place in these discussions. i know omar and the wilpons think with 2 pitchers we are going to be high rolling but i personally really dont see that happening
we can expect normal prodution from wright reyes and beltran, but is there anyone else in the lineup that we can honestly say, “he will produce”. i just dont think so. a couple things really bother me
1] i dont see the same production coming from delgado that he gave after the allstar break last year. he reproduced his 2006 season almost identically in half a season, and with a full year of waht he did last year hed be hitting 50 homeruns and driving in 140….. its not gunna happen
2] ryan chruch– coming off 2 concussions and not being able to see the ball coming into the plate, eh, not looking to hot. hes a question mark right now
3] the daniel murphy hype is unjust. hes a sub-par fielder and hasnt shown enough to be considered a starter in the bigs. hes a slap hitter and doesn’t have enough juice to slot up in LF or 1st base, lets save those for the big guns
every other position is obvious, schneider, ugh, castillo, ughhhhhhh
my point being we have 3 position players guaranteed to produce, and if u look at our competition, even the phillies, they are putting up a lineup including howard utley rollins and victorino.. and replacing burrell with a more productive ibanez… they are just more potent than us… we need a bat like mannys in our lineup
I actually think Delgado’s going to have a good year. He’ll be healthy from the get-go, playing for a contract, and if his newborn was stressing him out, well, he’ll be almost 2. I don’t think he’s going to be nearly the black hole he was, and that he’ll be a lot closer to a dependable offensive force.
Any ideas on what it would take to get Nady?
I would love to bring him back. I think he is due to get like $6M next season and then he is a Free Agent.
If Nady would only cost say Parnell and Dillon Gee or Dylan Owen…I’d consider that and have Left Field placed in his hands
Sign Lowe,
Trade for Nady
Then take a flier on one of the following 3 pitchers on a 1 yr make good contract….
a) Freddy Garcia
b) Pedro Martinez
c) Chris Capuano
Oliver Perez real value to us is that he returns a first round pick. That is more valuable than his return to us I think
I’ll not include Parnell in any OF deal, he is the only real hard throwing pitcher that we have almost ML ready, I don’t want another Lindstrom type of pitcher getting away.
Well to be honest…most of the minor leaguers we have are just names to me. If they are front line capable guys or real solid position player prospects like FMART…then I’d keep em. But other than that…if they project to be nothing more than ordinary at best if they make it….they should be trade bait where they have value….at least that is my opinion
bobby isnt going to be very key for us going into the future. hes 24 so just about ready to hit his prime and has some pretty decent stuff so he can be used as pretty good trade bait… our future in prospect land pitching wise are 2 names. jon neise and brad holt. i saw this kid holt throw in brooklyn and he looks great. we also have another pitcher down in brooklyn by the name of jenry mejia. hes 18 and was popping the mit at 95.. he also looks great… watching those 2 and seeing parnell pitch.. id say lets get what we can for parnell
I think I read that garcia got hurt already and capuano is back with the brewers.
Thanks Brapp…I was unaware of both situations. Just know that Garcia was a guy who had good stuff once and was coming back and same story with Capuano who I have always liked for some reason
no problem. I like both of those guys too. I would have loved to get smoltz for the 5 million he’s gonna get from the redsox.
THE METS ADDRESSED THEIR BP AND WILL SHORTLY FILL OUT THE STARTING ROTATION, BUT WILL BE MAKING A BIG BIG MISTAKE NOT TO UPGRADE THE OFFENSE.
REYES
MURPHY/TATIS
BELTRAN
WRIGHT
DELGADO
CHURCH- WILL BE PITCHED AROUND
SCHNEIDER .250 HITTER AT BEST
CASTILLO .240 IF HE CAN STAY ON THE FIELD
PITCHER
BULL PEN OR NOT THIS LINEUP HAS HOLES! OMAR, FRED, JEFF-WAKE UP! THE FANS PAY FOR TICKETS ETC. WE SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN WHAT GOES OUT ON THE FIELD!! ANYBODY ELSE AGREE?
you are soooo right bro. the current lineup misses the playoffs. and adding a nady or fill-in-the-blank would do nothing for the standings OR improving the entire lineup’s offensive production. there is a big hole in LF and clutch cleanup. hmmmmmm…..who can fill that need? oh….manny you say? but-but-but….manny costs too much :( what a joke. a real NY major market team would spend what it needs to WIN, and give the FANS what they want. plus, manny would be a HUGE return on investment.
The current lineup finishes in third place. There’s no way Delgado does what he did last year, and LF, 2B and C are all question marks. My prediction? We’re on the periphery of contention in July, we deal F-Mart for two months of Matt Holliday, and we come up just short to the Phillies/Marlins/Cardinals (pick two) for the final two playoff spots.
and manny makes castillo and schneider absorbable in the offense
you seriously think the Marlins are better than us? why?
I think the line up can be better than your making it out to be. Yes there is a chance we need an upgrade on offense but that’s what the middle of the season is for. We have money. We have prospects. Go with the guys we have and see what happens. With the upgrades in the bullpen and hopefully the rotation we should be fine. People have to keep in mind that the phillies and the other teams in the division haven’t made any significant changes.
Lefthand side of the keyboard somewhere around 4th row down.
CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
HEY, OLEO, COULDN’T HELP BUT NOTICE U CHOSE TO LEAVE OUT OLLIE’S DOMINATION OVER PHILLY, ATL & NYY.; I CERTAINLY REALIZE HE’S INCONSISTANT AS WELL AS A ‘BIG GAMER’ IN CASE U HADN’T NOTICED, NO ONE IS EXPECTING TO PITCH HIM HIGHER THAN THIRD IN THE ROTATION, A BACKENDER, THE DEFINITION OF WHICH SHOULD BE INCONSISTANCY. COMPARE HIM TO OTHER #3s IF YOU WILL, KEEP IT OUT OF NY & COMPARE WITHIN NL. WHETHER U LIKE IT OR NOT, PEREZ IS POTENTIALLY DOMINATING. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE OMAR OFFER 3/42 FOR LOWE WITH PERFORMACE OPTION OF 1 YR & MODEST BUYOUT AS WELL AS A 3/34 FOR PEREZ WITH A SIMOILAR TEAM OPTION. IF THEY COULD NAIL DOWN BOTH FOR APPROX 25M IT WOULD BE A COUP. FOR THOSE OF U LUSTING AFTER MANNY, I MUST POINT OUT EVERYONE’S HESITANCY RE HIM FOR EVEN 2YR DEALS. IT’S MORE THAN JUST THE $$, I REMEMBER READING THAT THE INSTANCES OF MANNY BEING MANNY IN THE PUBLIC FORUM IS JUST THE TIP OF AN UGLY ICEBERG OF WHAT TRULY WENT ON IN BOSTON. I TEND TO AGREE WITH FRED THAT IT’S BETTER TO WIN WITH CHARACTER THAN WITH CHARACTERS. WILL THE FIRST CONTRIBUTOR WHO WOULD NOT CRINGE AT A HEADLINE STATING JAY HOROWITZ HAS BEEN HOSPITALIZED BY AN ENRAGED MANNY. PLEASE COUNTER THIS POSTING. IT IS MY BELIEF THAT OMAR WILL ASCERTAIN THE NEED FOR A BOPPER IN SEASON & MAY DEAL FROM STRENGTH(PEN) TO ACQUIRE ONE SUCH AS FIELDER, OR OTHERS. SHOULD DUANNER RECOOP HIS STRENGTH & RETURN TO SETUP MODE OF ‘06 THAN HE & PUTZ MAY BE OVERLAPS THAT, DEPENDING ON STANDINGS MAY ALLOW DEALING OF ONE AT TIME WHEN THOSE QUALITIES ARE IN GREATEST DEMAND BY MOST TEAMS.
huh…funny how LA LOVES manny being manny.
Look, there is one reason to get rid of Ollie and sign Lowe and Wolf. We NEED a first-round draft pick, especially if the Dodgers or Brewers sign Perez. Why? Someone is gonna fall all the way to the bottom of the first round, and we can go way above slot and take him. We need to restock the farm. There is a future beyond 2009. Lowe is a solid, proven #2 starter who is CLUTCH, and Wolf is beyond serviceable. Get it done.
I used to think that about Wolf but then I used the NVSS. He had 7 starts of 4 innings or less and multiple runs. That guy is a BP killer.
How does Redding stats look using your new system?
I know Redding doesn’t put up a ton of QS relative to others but I think he brings good value to the #5 slot and if he’s not getting lit up like a x-mas tree to the degree that Wolf and Ollie did this year, why not just throw him into the mix.
Looks like Bernie Madoff signed Manny.
Please look into signing Pettitte before you agree to pay Lowe when he’s 39 years old and possibly 40!!!!!
I still don’t get why the Mets would have to add more money and an option if no one else is willing to give it to him.
I am not sold on Lowe. I would rather the Mets sign Ollie and Redding. Furthermore, I don’t know why the Mets aren’t jumping all over Manny. He is one of the greatest forces at the plate and with only a few teams interested he could be got at a reasonable price.