|
|
|
Update, 2:09 pm:
Earlier this afternoon, Mark Bowman of MLB.com wrote, “Braves GM Frank Wren arranged the meeting,” prior to learning John Smoltz would sign with the Red Sox.
According to Bowman, Bobby Cox traveled to Turner Field late Thursday morning to meet with Lowe, while Chipper Jones already made a recruiting pitch to the veteran sinkerballer.
Update, 12:19 pm:
Gordon Edes of Yahoo! Sports writes, “The Braves have zeroed in on Derek Lowe, who reportedly had been seeking a long-term deal for $16 million a year but whose price appears to have dropped now that he no longer has the leverage of the Yankees as potential bidders.”
Original Post, 10:07 am:
In the Boston Globe, Tony Massarotti reports, “Derek Lowe is scheduled to meet with representatives of the Braves this afternoon in Atlanta,” according to a baseball source.
Massarotti adds, “The Braves may have to guarantee a fourth year at a higher average annual salary in order to get a deal done with the pitcher,” while noting the Red Sox are not involved in negotiations.
In a post to his new blog, NY Baseball Hack, Dan Graziano wonders who initiated the meeting between Derek Lowe and the Braves – the agent or the team?
Last week on the MLB Network’s Hot Stove Live, SI.com’s Jon Heyman said Lowe rejected Omar Minaya’s three-year, $36 million offer, because he is seeking $16 million per season.
According to John Harper in the Daily News, Boras is looking to get Lowe a four-year, $64 million deal.
As such, Harper adds, “The Mets are likely to eventually raise its offer to the $40 million range if told it will get a deal done,” according to a person with knowledge of the team’s thinking.
Mark Bowman of MLB.com recently wrote that the Braves are unlikely to exceed Minaya’s initial three-year, $36 million offer.
However, Edes characterizes Atlanta’s interest as ‘significant,’ according to a source close to negotiations.
Ugh…
Though this could just be a tactic to drive up the Mets offer.
Call their bluff!
Let the Braves sign Lowe.
He’s not worth 16 mill for 4 years.
One less suitor for Perez, a lefty
No but he is worth more than 12 mil for 3 years…give him 14-16 mil for 3 years and a vesting option for the 4th year depending on his 3rd year. He wont turn it down.
typo sorry…was thinking something else. Do not give Lowe more than 14 mil a season…not 14-16. sorry
Exactly. Lowe was worth 4/32 in a good market 4 years younger at age 31.
To think hes worth anything over the 12 already offered in a down economy is ridiculous.
Just give Ollie 10 per and get it over with.
Stick to your guns Omar… if Braves give him 4yrs guaranteed, let them enjoy…
Rut row.
Well, I guess he is using or intents to use Braves as a bargaining chip to the Mets or sign him to the Braves…Let us wait and see.
I doubt they will offer anything more then 4 years 48 million. If they go above the 55 million mark i don’t even want him.
If it takes 4 years… i would give him no more then 4 for 52. Anything more then 13 million isn’t worth it. He’s not THAT good.
this meeting is only taking place because boras-shole is a genius and knows this will drive up the mets offer… we will see lowe signed somewhere in the next 3-4 days.. but im not sure if it will be with the mets
dont lose faith yet man…..lowe will be a met. This is just for show
Gotta love boras and his tactics….
I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
tactic |ˈtaktik|
noun
an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.
i think he has it right
maybe he meant “love”
ha
touché
If we miss out on lowe…they had better sign ollie, AND a major bat.
and by that i take it to mean MANNY, which won’t happen. It’s either Ollie or Lowe, then other pieces. Nothing more.
How many times do we have to see it mentioned that there won’t be anything major added to the offense.
I am one that is a little worried about the offense myself, but they were in the 8th in runs scored in the Majors, tied with the phillies. So offensivly you can argue they are fine. Though the huge question mark is Del-Sucks-A-Lot who scres me to death.
by big bat who do you mean lol
The Braves were willing to bid crazy money on Burnett, an often injury prone pitcher, they will have the money to outbit the Mets. Lowe might be great but he’s still better than Perez.
Sorry I meant to say Lowe might not be THAT great but he’s still better and more consistant than Perez is. He will stabilize the Mets rotation at the top.
Let him go to the Braves!
They can have Lowe….we’ll take Manny…
Whatever. Let’s just all remember the Braves are a 90-loss team who has done nothing this offseason but replace Hampton with Vazquez (a plus in innings pitced only). Lowe is a nice 2 or 3 pitcher….the Braves would be completely wasting their money treating him as anything more.
If Lowe perfers to pitch behind Jair Jurrjens over Johan Santana, be my guest buddy.
And please, let’s keep the definition of “genius” in mind when talking about Boras.
He’s an agent, doing what agents do. And he has no soul. He can look his clients in the eye and convince them not to go where they want to go, and he can two-face with anyone alive. This makes him a successful agent and a slimeball….not a “genius.”
When he cures cancer or the housing crisis, I’ll consider thinking differently.
Genius comes in varied forms my friend. Just because you don’t like the way he uses his skills doesn’t mean that those skills don;t exist and aren’t ample.
Einstein didn’t cure cancer, neither did Da Vinci, because their genius was not in the medical field.
Please, folks, no, I’m not comparing Boras to Da Vinci and Einstein, merely pointing out that one can be a genius in his or her field whether those powers are used for good or evil.
Genius does indeed come in varied forms. setting up meetings with baseball general managers and bluffing uncontrollably are not one of them.
He’s good at what he does.
Whatever.
Boras is the best at what he does, if i were a ballplayer he would be my agent.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see them get him. it’s not a bad team, they have a need, and apparently Hotlanta has evolved from a stinking swamp of backwoods bigotry to become the ‘tang capital of the east. Or so I’ve heard.
Stop reading Bill Simmons.
I wish I could, but I can’t.
(independent of that, though, I’ve still heard this)
Same problem for me. I love his mail bags lol.
“hi my name is jamie, and I’m a simmons reader”
simmons readers annonymous : “hi jamie”
well,there yougo, time to step it up omar, because now not only is one of your biggest rivals in it, but the phillis will soon be too, and will not want to lose. “give him an offer he cannot refuse”
Give him a 3 year 39 million dollar offer with a 4th year option that has a buyout. If it’s going to take more then that, let him go. He’s not worth it.
If Lowe was 29 years old, would anyone of you give him 7 years, $140m? I wouldn’t. He’s not a freaking ace for crying out loud. At his age and his #2 starter status, he’s way too prima donna for me.
I’m getting a little tired of this saga. If we sign him to $14m/year and he stumbles, he will be crushed by the fans. Luis Castillo will look like a god compared to him.
What in the world does 7 years and 140m have to do with this?
What he is saying is, Is this guy an ACE? Would in a perfect scenario, i.e. 29 years old, would you give this guy the Ace money you gave CC or Johan.
The answer is NO. So why would you pay this guy like a border-line ace. When he isn’t. He’s a nice rotation addition.
wow, do i need to spell it out?
he’s not a freaking ace! 7/$140m is an example of a contract an ace might be looking for. even if he was 7 years younger, he wouldn’t be worth ace money. not even close.
it’s said above that he’s seeking $16m/yr ($64m over 4 years). That’s just $4m under ace money. I say he’s not even worth that.
Got it?
3 years and roughly $40m or 4 years and roughly $52m is not ace money nowadays. Not even close.
You’re comparing apples to oranges.
dude, he wants $64m over four years. read.
What he wants and what the Mets will ultimately pay him are two different things.
But people always “seek” more than they’ll settle for. If in negotiations you don’t aim high, you’ll never get what you want. Nobody is talking about giving this guy ace money, so your argument makes no sense. Ace money these days is 18 - 20 million. He’s asking for 16 and will end up with 13-14, probably.
I am well aware of what negotations entail.
(Sorry, I couldn’t help it.)
Exactly Casey,
And i think omar is playing this one right. This guy is a borderline #2 pitcher. People yell about Burnett and his injuries, but people were willing to give him the money because he has #1 ability. Lowe flat out does not. He’s a nice steady rotation piece. He’s not an ace, not a guy who all of a sudden will move you to the promised land. He hasn’t even been to an All-Star game since 2002 with boston.
While i would like him on the team because he is consistent every time out. He isn’t going to make or break the season. If he goes to atlanta they won’t all of a sudden win 100 games.
Yeah, you could even argue that Mike Pelfrey and John Maine are as good as Lowe (given the age differences and the growth potential of both Pelf and Maine).
Lowe is a nice pitcher, but he’s not lights out like Johan and he shouldn’t even be considered close. Early in the offseason he wanted Zito money. Then, he complains that he’s better than Silva. The one thing he hasn’t yet done is honestly size himself up yet. He’s a nice #2/#3 starter. That’s it.
If he gets paid $14-16m/yr for a short term deal from a team that feels it’s a good arm away from being very good, fine. But, four years for a 36 year old middle of the rotation type of pitcher?
This has Luis Castillo written all over it.
Except Lowe has shown no signs of slowing down. In fact, his last two seasons set career highs in strikeouts. That, while, also producing the second most groundballs in the NL last season (Webb).
Remember, he may be 36 but he spent a lot of years in the bullpen.
Yeah, and he did all that playing in the NL West. The guy isn’t even worth $12M if we aren’t going to be able to afford anything else.
Give me Sheets and Ollie, and tell Lowe to go pitch to 12 wins in Atlanta.
I don’t understand the NL West argument at all.
Especially considering that he has pitched well against the NL East too. He’s got a 3.02 ERA in 50 innings against Philly with a BAA lower than .250.
And I’m not sure why you think his win total — which is not completely dependent on his performance — means anything.
You know the Dodgers scored 100 runs fewer than the Mets last year, one of the lowest totals in the NL?
Perhaps Derek would have won 17 games with the Mets (well, unless the bullpen got involved….).
Anyway, Perez/Sheets combo leaves the potential for many many innings pitched by the bullpen and/or Jon Niese.
Perez goes 5.7 innings per start (Lowe, 6.2) and Sheets, as great as he is, is completely unpredictable.
umm have you seen Ollie’s numbers against the NL West? Have you seen his numbers against every team other than the Braves, Phillies and Marlins? He had an ERA over 8 against other teams.
You could argue pelfrey and maine are just as good but you’d be horribly wrong.
I don’t buy that Atlanta is only trying to drive the Mets price up (Boras may be trying to do that but not Atlanta).
First, whatever difference it makes — whether it is 1-3m per year or an additional season — is not going to be enough to prevent the Mets from making whatever subsequent moves they were planning.
Second, the Braves were already priced out of the AJ Burnett market. The last thing they want to do is raise the market value of 2nd level pitchers even higher. They have to pay pitchers in this same market too.
Third, their reported interest in Burnett and Peavy indicates that they do have money to spend and are interested in spending it on pitching.
somebody mention yest he does not wanna pitch for the mets, is this true? anybody can elaborate on this story?
coz if so i rather get sheets.. as a matter of fact even if he still wanna come over here i still like sheets better..
Are there any English teachers even left in any of our schools?!?
WOW — Boras is a GENIUS!!! Meeting with another team shopping for pitching to try to get his client the best possible deal! WHOA!!!!
In other words, this is nothing specific to Boras, and nothing in any way remarkable. Atlanta has a hole in their rotation, too. why wouldn’t they want to discuss Lowe?
Does it occur ot anyone that if Lowe signs with anyone besides the Mets he most likely just does not want to be a Met? What if Perez was the more liked target and all of htis is just to drive down his price? I am not saying it should be but there was a report a couple of weeks ago that said the Mets liked Perez more. Who knows until all this is finished. I expect most of it to be settled out by the end of next week.
I was hoping for the end of this week!
at lest (hopefully) once Lowe gets signed, the rest of the FA pitchers could go quick.’
Still expect the Mets to end up with 2 of them, but ah, which 2?
not a bad thought. by the way, five weeks until pitchers and catchers report, so we kind of have an idea of when this saga will end.
Maybe it is just a way for the Mets to increase their offer and save face.
Here’s the thing. IF the Braves sign Lowe, then who is left for Perez, Garland, Wolf, Sheets……? Could the Braves signing Lowe actually HELP us get 2 of those guys?
I have actually wanted Ollie and Garland since the off-season started.
I know your missing the top of the line starter, but i think over the coarse of the season Garland will put up similar statistics in the NL as Lowe. When you are comparing their statistics, remember Garland is pitching in the AL. So his numbers are going to be a little worse.
And that’s the problem i see with Lowe. Garland isn’t a superstar, but personally if Lowe is a #2 Garland is a #3, and the difference in salary would make it more worth it.
Ollie and garland would be better for the team i think then Lowe and Redding, or Lowe and Neise. Just my opinion.
Starting to agree.
On a 3 year average Garland and Lowe aren’t far off statistically:
Lowe: 33 starts, 20 QS, 14-11 Record, 139 K, 53 BB, 203 HA, 3.57 ERA, 1.22 WHIP.
Garland: 32 starts, 19 QS, 14-9 Record, 100 K, 52 BB, 234 HA, 4.56 ERA, 1.39 WHIP.
Garland did all this in the AL, where as everyone knows your ERA when you switch leagues typically goes down .5 to a full run. Along with that your WHIP, HA and Whip decrease, as you face a pitcher more.
The only comparable years are 2002 & 2003 when both were in the AL, and Garland out-pitched Lowe in 2003, 2002 was lowe’s single best season and garlands first Full season in the Bigs.
I know he’s not Ideal, but he’s proven, successful, has won 2 playoff games in pretty dominate fashion. He’s 29 and as durable as they come.
nice job
Not even close. The differences in leagues does not account for Garland’s horrific K/BB ratio and the fact that hitters hit over .300 against him — more than .50 points higher than Lowe’s opponent’s batting average.
Lowe is so far and away better than either Ollie or Garland there is no possible circumstance in which losing out on Lowe benefits the team unless it results in a trade, rather than signings from the current free agent crop.
I won’t get into the Ollie v. Lowe comparisons again because I’ve been through it too many times in the other topics.
Of course it does. In the AL you don’t pitch to opposing pitchers who strike very easily, and almost never walk.
Yeah, offensive studs like Melky Cabrera and Nick Punto account for the .300 BA and the grand total of 50 Ks.
Way to pick 2 of the worst hitters in the AL. It’s been proven year in and out that the AL hits way better then the NL. Hence why 8 of the top 10 offenses in baseball were in the AL.
And I think you are taking my points 100% Wrong. Garland isn’t the #2 the Mets are looking for. Not in any way. Not any how. But neither is Derek Lowe.
As I have said At 12 million a year Lowe is fine with me. At 14-16 give me Garland at 8-10. The stastical difference won’t be as great as the 4-8 million a season to a 36 year old.
I won’t get on here and say Garland is the savior of the Mets. He’s a very nice complimentary piece. He’s been as solid a Pitcher as they come. He eats innings. Keeps you in games. He has has as many QS as Lowe almost every year, year in and year out.
I know for a fact Lowe is better, but he’s not this All Star pitcher. He’s a border-line #2 pitcher, and in my mind he’s a #3 pitcher who is looking to get paid like a All-Star #2 pitcher.
And he shouldn’t. Just because he’s the best pitcher on the market, doesn’t make him the best pitcher. If the Mets were going to spend 15 million on Lowe, I would have just been fine with them spending an extra 5 or 6 and signing CC. At least i know for 2 or 3 years he would be Dominate before he is 400lbs
I’ve seen a lot of warnings on Garland, and I think he’s likely to be more like a 4 or 5 soon.
All we need to know about Garland is that in each of the last three seasons his innings totals have decreased while his walks have increased and his K/BB ratio has decreased.
Precisely!
But you don’t think a 36 year old with no upside is worth anything more then 13 million a year. He has absolutely no upside. With Lowe you know what your getting. 200 innings. 146 k’s, 55 bb, a 1.27 WHIP, 3.6 ERA and about 220 HA. That’s what he does every season.
Last year was an aberration. Are you falling into the Contract year stats. He’s 36. Never been great. Never been bad. That’s what he is.
And when you take Garland, His innings dipped so much last season because he was the #5 starter on the Angels. He still averaged over 6 innings a start. Throw in the 33rd start of a #3 or #4 pitcher he has again over 200 innings.
Yes his K’s dipped a little, nothing too dramatic. Lowe is being blowin up like nothing i have ever seen before. I love it. He will come to the Mets and everyone will be like Well he’s a nice #3 pitcher.
Boston sure missed him after he left, and is trying really really hard to get him, they just signed 2 pitchers at 13.5 million coming off surgeries rather then give that to him for 4 years. Wonder Why?
Would I be happy with 200 innings and 1.26 WHIP? You bet!!!
And you sure won’t get that from Garland, who strikes no one out and has batters hitting .300 against him.
The fact of the matter is that Garland has declined during the three year period you have referenced and Lowe has not.
Despite Lowe’s age, he has only pitched 300 more innings than Garland in his career because of his time in the bullpen. Their arms are about the same age and it is Garland’s showing signs of decline.
Your going by one Bad season by Garland, and one Teriffic season by Lowe.
Garland’s Career WHIP is 1.36. His Career BAA is .275.
Lowe’s Career WHIP is 1.27 and His Career BAA is .257.
Again when you look at it, yes lowe is better. But put Lowe in the AL for 6 seasons instead of the Putrid NL west and take a look at what his numbers would look like.
WHen you go back and look at the 03, and 04 seasons Lowe had in Boston you see what his Career numbers in the AL would have looked like. When he came to the NL west, his k’s went up by 30 a season, his ERA dropped from 4+ to the high 3’s, and his WHIP went from 1.4 to 1.25.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
You can’t tell me my opinion of Garland is based on one bad year and then site to Derek Lowe’s bad season 5 years ago as proof of anything.
First, Garland’s BAA in 2006 was .295. And then .270 in 2007. And over .300 in 2008. So clearly, he’s not getting any better and has been pretty bad the last three years.
Second, 90 Ks is absolutely horrible. If he;’s going to let on 1.4 runners per inning, he better strike someone out eventually.
Third, Lowe’s 4 seasons in the NL — where he will continue to pitch for the Mets — have all been well above average.
Garland has not been above average compared to his AL peers.
Do you really expect that Garland will come to the NL and suddenly opponents will hit 30-40 points lower against him?
You’re putting way too much into the AL v. NL argument.
Somewhere you mentioned that it was telling that the Bosox did not sign him. Apples to oranges. The Bosox are filling the fifth spot in their rotation and already have 2, if not 3 young pitchers who can take that role. Of course, they’re not giving a multi year deal to anyone for that spot. Veterans like Penny and Smoltz on one year deals for the fifth spot makes much more sense than a multi-year deal for a fifth starter.
isn’t it possible that Lowe just had a bad season in 2004? He sure looked good in the postseason.
I don’t see why you automatically attribute it to the league differential.
Lowe has pitched well against the NL East teams, by the way.
I hope not. Because I wouldn’t want two of those guys.
5.7 IP/game Ollie plus two injury cases or one heaping pile of s*ckitude (Garland) do not interest me.
That’s a lot of bullpen innings if you have Ollie and someone like an injured Wolf (not to mention John Maine is no innings eater either).
maybe the braves are planning to up the mets offer so the mets lose money for other free agents that atlanta possibly want s to compete with.
Maybe there are a lot of conspiracy theorists here.
Is it hard to imagine another team having interest in the same pitcher as the Mets?
What audacity!!
Bingo. And what’s the conspiracy? Do we think Boras would not give the Mets an opportunity to match or exceed any offer from another team, or that he would sign an “exploding” offer? Heck no. If this is not “real” interest from the Braves, there’s nothing to worry about. If it is, hey, maybe they feel better about Lowe than the Mets do, or perhaps Lowe feels better about them. Big deal. The guy is not a savior. He’s a fairly old starting pitcher with a decent track record. Not the end of the world if he doesn’t sign.
Did you all forget that Wren just got burned by high priced agents and their high priced talents. The sting of Furcal still weighs heavy on his mind and he is NOT going to be used as a pawn to get the Mets to cave just so he can be burned again. He will offer 3 years 12.2 million per and leave it to Boras to ask the Mets 4 more. He will not be a Brave I guarantee it.
what happens if Lowe and Perez sign some where else? Will you be happy with wolf,garland or Redding? I wont
Not unless all that extra money brings us Manny.
But if that senerio did happen I would imagine Omar would make a trade for another starter.
if lowe and perez sing elsewhere than i think you call th ginats and call the padres and call sheets.
if we don’t sign lowe, and we lose out on perez we’re stuck with redding and garland/sheets/wolff.. but i guarantee you we will see MANNY RAMIREZ here becoz omar then will convice the wilpons that we may not have enuff pitching and need more offense.. then.. MANNY is here.. where’s nostradamus at???!!
wow, i meant if the SIGN elsewhere you call THE GIANTS
ok so wren gets burned by 2 free agents therefore wont go all in on another player ever again?
Would someone help me out.Because I really
wasn’t paying much attention for a few weeks.
Why did we have no interest in brad Penny?
Becoz he’s a big time risk.. and he’s always 1 pitch away for being out for 2 weeks..
BEN SHEETS!!!!
see Penny, Brad (and your own words on the subject)
the difference is ben sheets is better than penny.. but i know that as well
Big Help!– Didin’t Penny sign for just a year?
While Omar has con’t to show interest in
Redding & Wolf.And b/t/w Penny’s injury history would seem to be no where near
what Sheets has been.
fonga,
the mets were addresing other needs by then.. penny even knows the red sox overpaid to get him.. nobody was even close to 8 millions wit him, that’s why when the offer was made he never even hesitate to take it..
Penny when healthy is just as good as Sheets. When he started the allstar game 2 years ago he was filthy. If he could have that stuff over a full season he would be a lock for 15+ wins
sheets is better than penny based on stuff.. penny is pure flame thrower.. if his fastball is not 98mph like it was 3 years ago he’s a mediocre pitcher.. with that being said he’s off the market and sheets is..
I would have liked him for 2 mil plus incentives. but the sox took a flyer on him for 5+ mil, i owuld not have wanted to top that for a guy that may or may not pitch
I know Perez is up and down but I would take his potential over a .500 pitcher on the downside of his career any day. I see Lowe as a repeat of the Glavine fiasco. It drives me crazy that we are going so hard after Lowe when Perez is the better pitcher. I would even prefer to go after Sheets for a short term deal over locking up a 36 year old pitcher til his retirement. Lowe has shown to be a good big game pitcher but are you willing to live with all of his bad starts when he is not motivated and how motivated will he be after getting all of this money on his last contract before retirement.
This is clas-sic Boras. Boras used the Nationals offer to drive up the Red Sox and Yankees on Teixeira even though teixeiara had no intention of going there.
If the Braves outbid us, adding another year, let him go there. Bring back Perez and someone better than Redding.
i wonder if atlanta offers the same as us.. where will he go then.. just wondering if he’d say i chose atlanta coz they got great school??
jaydh - how did boras use an offer from the nats to drive up the yankees? if he was lying about the nats offer they would have come out and denied it. he did nothing that was slimeballish with the tex negotiations. he was merely doing his job as an agent to get the most money for his client (and himself)
Because the Nationals were the only ones outbidding the Sox and yanks at the time, some reports said the Nationals guarenteed a 9th year and would have even gone higher than the Sox and yanks final offer given the chance(but i doubt the yanks were going any higher). The nationals were clearly being used as leverage much like Boras will now use the Braves against us.
ok but how were the nationals USED as leverage? they actually made those offers. no one had a gun to their heads. i rememebr reading a report that they even thought they had no shot. but like i said, they STILL made an offer. most likely so that they could tell their fans “at least we tried”
i’ll repeat myself, nationals had the highest bid. boras told sox and yanks there is a better offer out there to get them to raise thier offers even though boras knew teixeira had NO intention of going to the nationals. got it now?
how is that a bad thing for boras to do? he simply told the other teams that there was a higher bid in. had the yanks and sox not budged i think the nats actually would have had a shot. but boras was just simply being a good agent and getting the most for his client. he didnt screw anyone over or do anything wrong. he simply knew the market and sold the top.
All I was saying is that I want no part of this game Boras is now going to play with us and the Braves. If the Braves outbid us, he will probably force omar to raise his offer.
Unlike the sox or yankees, omar must stand his ground even if outbid by the lowly braves(where i dont believe lowe wants any part of).
the only things off the top of my head that boras has been an a**hole about are the manny/boston fiasco, the arod opt-out, the alvarez signing, and when he mentions mystery teams.
its the stupid gm’s that give in to his crap that should be to blame. i think its a great job being done by omar so far
244:
boras is a genius, true he’s a d**k but he’s getting the most money out of his players, that’s why a lot of players go with him.. he’s the best agent out there..
i’ve been saying it all along, lowe is NOT that good to be demanding more than 13 millions a year.. GET BEN and ollie/garland to be our #5.. or whatever.. just don’t go out there and get redding and the other garbage that’s out there.. we have the money and specially if we aren’t gonna sign manny or a big time hitter..
Alex,am I wrong or did the cubs just give
Dempster 4/52? Don’t you think Lowe/Boras
will talk to whomever and wait as long as
they can to atleast get that type of deal?
dempster is like 30.. this guy is 36.. HUGE difference in years don’t u think.. look, if lowe was 32 don’t u think the yankees would’ve sign him instead of burnett??
Again,you’re providing no insight. I know the
age diff.I’m not some casual fan. But Dempster is no where near the Pitcher Lowe
is. And as for AJ, no doubt the Yankees like
some others are in love with his “stuff” and
what they believe he could do if healthy.
Plus, your gonna argue using the yankees
judgment as starting off point?
fonga, do me a favor, check lowe’s number when he left boston before u start talking please.. then also check his number against the west and playing in dodger stadium please ok..
There is more to it than just pitching in LA or BOS. Lowe had many more distractions in BOS which i am sure you are unaware of. maybe you should heed your own advice.
Don’t you think Boston would have signed him for the 13.5 million they just spent on Smoltz and Penny, if he was so GREAT.
Lowe is a nice pitcher. At 12-13 million i’m fine with it. At anything more we are throwing away money on a pitcher who’s a nice #3. We didn’t get the top of the line starter we were looking for, we just got the best name Left on the Market. That’s it.
you mark.. i needed a tag team partner to show this guy he’s not that good.. he’s better than what’s left, but boston also remembers what he was doing before he left.. GARBAGE!!
Alex,
I’m right with you, and others on here are too. Look for 12 million a year, he’s fine, 13 is possibly the highest i will go. Other then that Lowe is not worth it. He has absolutely no…. ZERO… NADA as upside. He is what he is. He’s a right handed Ground Ball pitcher. Who has pitched in the most pitching friendly confides of anyone in baseball for 4 seasons. His lifetime in boston wasn’t great, 2002 was his best and only truely great season. Other then that he’s been a solid professional.
Now there is a report that The Nats are in on the bidding. Good let him go rot for 4 season in Washington. I guarantee if he goes there his season will look mostly like Tim Reddings did record wise. He won’t transform that team into anything other then a Front line starter on a bad team.
Omar should hold pat, say here is my final offer 3 years 13 mil with a 4th season buyout at 3-4 million.
Mark,
honestly i could care les-s if we get him or not, he’s already proven to be bitchy, complaining about other pitcher’s contract and stuff.. 2 weeks in here and he’ll blow up when reporters tell him he’s pitchiong like garbage!
Listen to yourselves… Lowe had a bad season 5 years ago (one in which he also was dominant in the postseason) and we don’t want him.
3 years ago Ollie was 2-10 in the pressure packed sports world of Pittsburgh and had a 6.60 ERA — and we want him.
Why does Lowe’s bad season 5 years ago weigh more heavily than Ollie’s atrocious season 3 years ago? Not to mention Ollie’s mediocre season of last year compared to Lowe’s excellent season.
If Brad Penny’s not throwing 98mph
hes a mediocre pitcher? Wow.
But Ben Sheets who can never stay healthy
is the answer to our problems?
look fonga, i get it, penny may be better for you, but i like sheets better, penny played in dodger stadium!! against the NL WEST!! helloooo… check every pitcher’s ERA against the west division.. ppl please, do not trust anybody that has been mediocre and go to the west and have career year.. lowe, penny, revive their career in the west..
Look, I’m not the President of th Brad Penny
fan club.Just interested to learn if anyone
out there would know why Omar would be
talking to a Redding or Wolf when a few weeks ago Penny was out there,then signed
for only a yr..I’m talking about our potential
#5 not 2or3 as Lowe orOllie would be.
I think its because we have practically no budget to work with. This is why omar is going player by player. If omar snagged penny for 8+mil, he would only be able to get someone like wolf or redding in addition.
Agree funga, but like i said, penny took the first offer out there for him coz he knew that nobody was gonna top that.. that’s my as-sumption..
And no doubt,Sheets is a top-tier guy But
again,is always hurt. Now if Omar ends up
losing out w/Lowe and bringing back Ollie
then bring in Sheets on a 1or2yr deal would
be great.BUT 2 weeks from now I don’t
want to end up w/ Sheets and Redding/Wolf.
Thats got shades of last yr w/Petey&Duque
all over it.One could see then in May Niese
and Figueroa starting on a regular basis
which means heavy bullpen load every night.
“jaydh says:
January 8, 2009 at 11:16 am
All I was saying is that I want no part of this game Boras is now going to play with us and the Braves. If the Braves outbid us, he will probably force omar to raise his offer.
Unlike the sox or yankees, omar must stand his ground even if outbid by the lowly braves(where i dont believe lowe wants any part of)”
jaydh - and i am simply saying that it is not a “game”. if one team offers more than the other, you go back to the other team and see if they up their offer. boras is an agent, that is what they do. if all agents took the first offer we’d have baseball would be a different game today.
if the braves top our offer, boras will ASK us to top their offer. he will not FORCE omar to top their offer. he does not hold a gun when making negotiations. it would the be up to omar to top it or not.
…its pointless, have a nice day!
I’ma go out on a limb here…
Someone on another board made a comment about the Sox capturing lightning in a bottle with the signings of Penny and Smoltz. Does anyone here believe Pedro can rebound? Though he had a crappy year, he had an effective August and did K 9 batters in his final game (also gave up 5 runs)…the K’s however points to him still having something in the tank. The bottom line I guess is…are Garland, Redding + Wolf (Met fall backs) that much better than Pedro?
yes i think so.
Yes to Petey as our #5 BUT only on a one
year deal. Atleast Epstein understands
with these things that if they don’t work this
year, you move on and don’t have to figure
into next seasons budget guys on the roster
who are hurt,ineffective or both BUT you still
have to pay them. Omar, has never understood this.
i’m leaving this comments right now i’m moving on to the next post.. you guys are amazing!! PEDRO!!!????
Thank You for the announcement.
And on his Birthday, Elvis has officially
left the building. Jeez.
I actually think that omar and pedro WILL have a serious conversation about him returning, and would not be surprised if he did….I know he had a junky year, but he had so much going on that he just never got into any kind of groove….The thing with pedro is he feels bad about leaving new york that way, and I’m sure wants to redeem himself…and although he’s lost some of his zip, we all know that he is such a talented and smart pitcher, that he can transform into one of those pitchers that kills you with location and selection, not heat…If he actually DOES transform has yet to be seen, but I for one know that he definitely has the ability to do it, and become a lethal pitcher (maybe for only 5 innings at a clip) a la greg maddox….thats my opinion.
I really don’t think Pedro is a good idea just for the fact that we need to move on from him. He has always been one of my favorite pitchers but I just think its that time.
i kind of agree, and I am not saying that I would be gung ho about the idea, because whatever does wind up happening with him, it still is a roll of the dice, which i’m not sure omar is willing to do right now…he may wind up bouncing back, or he might wind up injured and/or stinking again….
I’m saying I wouldnt be surprised to see him come back on the cheap, with a lot of incentives in the contract.
i would definately take pedro back on a low salary with incentives.
did someone say Pedro?
Ollie and Pedro 2009!
if i was a snitch i’d say it was fongalou.. but i’m not..
wow, dropping dimes everywhere
I personally think it would be better to try to sign Perez and with the price difference put it towards a 1 or 2 year incentive deal for Sheets.
I would not have a problem with Lowe being in our Rotation either, but having Lowe-Neise/Redding/Wolf or Perez/Sheets i dont think is even a comparison. Even if Sheets doesn’t stay healthy then you have Neise in the waiting..
Also, it makes me sick to think that we are not trying to Manny. The guy produces his own salary in revenue. We need a LF and he is one of the best hitters EVER..
LGM!!
My last word on Penny: No one on our staff
including Johan has ever made/had two
consecutive starts as important and successful as Penny’s two WS starts against
the Yankees.
are you serious!!!??
your basing that on what?? oh that was the year that JOSH BECKETT was the MVP!!
please, go and check lowe’s number in 2004 postseason then and sign him for a 5 year deal pleas…
Am I serious about what? That despite all
your knocking of the guy that on the biggest
stage,in the biggest games of his life he
went out there and beat a damn good yankee
team twice in a week and ahalf. Because the
answer to that would be yes.That’s what happened.
One last comment, If Lowe ends up with the Mets and if the Dodgers signed Olvier Perez does anyone not believe that Perez playing in Dodger stadium against the week NL West would not have a far superior year to Lowe especially knowing that Lowe would be facing the dominant lefthanded hiting Phillies 5 times a year?
I agree that Perez would have the better year. The guy is a head case but i have also read that Lowe is too. I am pretty sure that i read somewhere that Lowe has A.D.H.D. and has problems concentrating and buckling down at time.. Isn’t that Perez’s problem?
Exactly! Thank you for stating the obvious.
Or Oliie after “getting paid” could revert to
3-13 with a 6 and a half ERA.
and what kind of concentration is Lowe going to have knowing that he has locked up his last contract before retirement.
Maybe because he’s a winner?
And you think Lowe is starving now?
He may not be starving but he certainly is greedy asking for Zito type of money.
greedy? you’d go to a potential employer and say “I’m not worth X amount of money, so please only hire me for less”? You wouldn’t want the most value you could get for your services?
I don’t agree. Lowe has been fine against the Phillies and lefties.
Lefties had an OBP against him last season below .300!!!!!
Conversely, Ollie can’t get out righties — .365 OBP against.
Against the Phillies in his career, Lowe has a 3.02 ERA with BAA lower than .250.
And Lowe does not care about the park in which he pitches. Last season he had the second highest ground ball to fly ball ratio in the NL, trailing only Brandon Webb. Every park has the same sized infield.
Anyway, Citifield is not projecting to be a hitter’s park.
Again Wanny, Your going by Lowe’s Contract Year Stats.
He won’t replicate that season again in his career. Write it down. You will get the Derek Lowe of ‘05, ‘06, and ‘07. Which again is fine at 12-13 million. At anything more it’s totally not worth it.
When will teams stop going by recent memory?
Also go look at Lowe’s Home/Away Splits and tell him Ball-Park doesn’t matter. His home WHIP was .93 and his home BAA was.206. While his AWAY WHIP was 1.39 and his BAA was .292.
Not exactly saying he’s an ace outside LA. Oh he also pitched 24 less innings in the same amount of starts. 17 both home and away.
I’d be happy with any of Derek Lowe’s last 4 seasons of 200 innings mid 3 ERAs and 1.2 WHIPS in the middle of our rotation. No doubt about it.
I’m not sure who you think we can get that will be better than that. It sure isn’t Ollie or Garland.
gojpr: and when you go to Philly or to Milwaukee or to Colorado… then what? As bad as you think Castillo is, he still catches more than he misses. And his one base error is not as bad as a fly ball that reaches the seats. Not to mention, your leftfield defense is not going to remind anyone of Tim Raines.
C’mon.
Have you seen our right side of the infield? How many groundball to the rightside are going to be stopped before they reach the outfield? At least if you keep the ball in the air maybe an outfielder can run underneath them.
It’ll improve once we sign Orlando Hudson, who’s waiting on us.
Imagine what Lowe’s price would be if the Mets were not interested in him. $12 a year would look like a goldmine.
I know that is why he isn’t worth it.
12 milion a year is a 4 million raise then what he had in his last contract. When they were throwing money away.
So he saw Zito and Silva get ridiculous contracts, he thinks he can get one.
Hope he likes pitching for the NATS.
My prediction?
Lowe signs with the Braves, who will guarantee him four years.
We’ll be stuck with Perez. Oh well. Lowe’s not worth four years guaranteed.
If they lose Lowe, just go ahead and sell the team you cheap f’ing bastards. We’re all sick of it.
You’re a complete and utter moron. People who read your posts actually have their IQs reduced. You obviously know little to nothing about negotiating, and you’d probably throw offer Lowe 4/70 at this point even if we’re bidding against ourselves…
What we’re all sick of is your repetitive, bland, and just not very thoughtful protests for the Wilpons to sell the team even though it will never happen.
You might get sick of him repeating himself but he’s right.
Sylar speak for yourself… stop drinking the kool-aid this is NEW YORK market money is there to sign LOWE + MANNY and even more.
I think Omar is handling it correctly, he is not going to bid against himself like cashman but when all is said and done money should not be used as an excuse for not signing him.
In Omar we trust right? Wolf/Redding = bullpen getting over worked again. Jerry = captain hook. We need someone that can go 7 and only give up 3. Lowe is that guy. Sheets is that guy if healthy. Ollie is not that guy.
No Pedro please!!! Hey, how about calling Towers in SD and maybe offering up Fernando Martinez, Niese, Kunz for Peavy? Then we can sign Redding or whoever for the # 5 spot and still have the best rotation in the Majors.
1 JOHAN
2 PEAVY
3 PELFREY
4 MAINE
5 PICK ONE
only if they throw in Adrián González. Then we ship Delgado to Toronto for something.
W-O-W!!!
LOL..
clearly I’m joking!
i knew that.. lol.. but i needed to say:
WOW!!
they are not giving up fmart in any kind of deal…oh, and you have niese in on that one also? not happening.
Because besides the fact that Peavy has a no-trade clause and would probably require big time money to come to NY to waive it… SD is not trading him for one big prospect and bottom of the rotation and middle reliever prospects.
It would probably take more like F-Mart, Murphy, Niese and Parnell.
And, even though reports say that Peavy won’t play here, I say that everyone has a price.
If the Mets agreed to guarantee his 2013 option, and add an exact option for 2014, that $22M more guaranteed in Peavy’s pocket.
That certainly has to make him think about it.
If Lowe sign w/ the Knaves, I will have a good reason to hate him and hate the Braves even more. Ah, something to look forward to.
Incidentally, is Alou still a Met?
how about we sign perez and manny?..
this is driving me nuts…can they do something already?…
Hey man…I left you a post on the last thread saying I think it’s just darkest before dawn. I think that something really good is about to happen for us. We can get this done.
hey man…i hope you are right..because right now its really freakin boring…lol…it would be nice if the mets pulled a yankees with tex and it came out that the mets are pursuing manny..lol..ok now im starting to see how im the ringleader for manny
I think one of the things that’s driving us Met fans nuts is that Omar is not multi-tasking. It’s totally ridiculous that we haven’t addressed our utility infielder or another lefty reliever because we have to focus on Lowe. These are not $20 million dollar deals we’re talking about. We’re a big market team. DO SOMETHING ALREADY!
EXACTLY!!!…thats my point i was saying yesterday..they are all focused on lowe meanwhile teams are signing players and we still arent done..lets go!!!
Enter, relax a bit, lok, if we lose on lowe there still sheets and perez and garlnad out there.. and the big fish still looms as a posibility..
well he did supposedly make an offer to redding
also, by prioritizing this way, and taking care of one thing at a time, omar can then better distribute the money….the way he is doing it, although frustrating for us, makes lots of sense….until he knows if he is spending 14 per yr on the #2 guy, or 10-12 on that guy, he doesnt have an accurate idea of how much he can spend on the next move….or, in the case of LF/big bat, if he is going to be able to make that happen at all
When you only have about $20mil left to spend and you don’t know how much Lowe or Perez is going to need how can you sign other guys that might take money away from your lowe or perez offer.
yeah, there was the one thing i read that said the braves probably wouldnt go above the 12/yr…so they might give him a 4th year guaranteed, but at that point, we would probably up the per yr amount, i.e., 3/39 or 3/42, which is what a lot of people have been saying would get it done, so I’m still pretty confident this will happen…
also, on the bright side, it should start moving along one way or the other now…
well its time for me to get off because i am just starting to lose my mind…ill check back later…have fun everyone..hopefully some good news later…doubt it..its the mets we are talking about
no worries krod, Jacobs is gonna run over the Eagles.
A few people have posted about how Omar keeps some deals really quiet up until the end. Does anyone think there’s a chance at Manny? Sheets? Dunn? I’m not sure, but it’s interesting speculation.
Who knows, usually the moves that Omar keeps quiet are trades.
Good point. The FAs are always splashed everywhere.
The wildcard out of the blue Omar deal I’m looking out for is a trade (and acceptance of trade) for Peavy. A guy like that is dangling out there, so you figure it has to be somewhere on Omar’s radar, even if improbable.
i’d be ok with sheets and dunn i guess..
I would really like that. I’ve been thinking that perhaps Omar will revisit Jermaine Dye as well.
WS are asking for a ridiculous price for Dye. They wanted Bailey plus more from the Reds, which for us would be like FMart+Niese.
and he is still on the sox. Go figure!
Still with Manny….
I wonder how many “sign Manny” posts we’ll get when he actually signs somewhere else…I predict still about 20-30 per day.
Do yourself a favor and read Olney’s blog about Citi’s dimensions, and how it is build for gap hitters anbd good OF defense, not plodding, defensively challeged, power-hitting corners. Just one more reason to firget about Manny.
agreed. but that won’t make anyone feel any better about Tatis/Murphy in LF…
Maybe, Boras called the meeting with the Mets to scare other suitors. (Braves, Phillies).
If we miss out on Lowe, this is what I would do.
Sign Garland and Wolf. Sign Manny. Try even harder to release/ trade Castillo and sign Hudson.
i’m sure omar has been trying as hard as possible to get rid of castillo, it is just not a very easy undertaking…..i dont think getting or not getting lowe is going to change anything that he is trying to do with castillo…
just curious, whats your plan if we DO get lowe? because your plan if we dont get him is a pretty expensive one.
Castillo will be here in ST. Just hope he is better than last year. But ddon’t expect that situation resolved before March.
And no, no, no to Hudson..AKA Castillo V2.0
I don’t think Castillo will be here in ST.
I can not see the Mets keeping him around for 3 years and a year from now they may find it even harder to unload.
I think they are trying to find any suitors and if none, they will cut him or restructure his deal and then sign Hudson.
A year from now Castillo will be signed to 2 yrs/12Ml, still bad, but not nearly as bad as 3/18. Furthermore, and give this a little thought, he could have a subpar season in 2009, miss a few games hurt, and go into next off-season looking a lot better than right now. Odds are very high that Castillo improves in ‘09. His value after last season could not be lower.
Redding and Wolf vs Krod and Putz is one step forward and one step back.
The offers to Redding and Wolf just before Omar met with Boras are a cat and mouse game. He can’t be serious, right?
If lose out on Ollie and Lowe, and Sheets has never even been an option. What is the plan. We need a #2 if we want any chance at contending.
Maine’s health is still a question. Big Pelf was nasty last season but can’t just pencil him in for 15 wins 3.00.
and the Phillies entire rotation are proven vets at this point. We need stability, big time. Ollie is the furthest thing from that.
you bring up a good point…while lowe isnt an ace, he is crucial to our plan here…..ollie as plan b is very scary….(not sure if, after lowe, if they prefer ollie or wolf, but lord, either way, we’d be flying without a real solid #2…)
scary stuff when you think about it…
lowe is a pretty important piece to the puzzle here, no matter how much some people are downplaying him….consistency, and innings are of the utmost importance, and ollie is the exact opposite of both of those….
You two are on the money. We have to have solid and consistent innings because the ball never get to Putz and K-Rod with guys like Redding and 5.2 inning Ollie in the rotation
I disagree. In 06 we had no #1 and were contenders. Don’t under estimate the power of a good bullpen.
Amen to that.
but also don’t underestimate the fact that the Phillies, Marlins, Braves all have quality teams this season. 06 not so much!!!
I don’t see how either the Braves or Marlins are better this year than last. The Marlins dumped two of their better relievers as well as willingham & olsen (though admittedly the rookie looked great); the braves rotation is a gigantic ?, more so than ours, larry’s another year older, they’re actually talking of re-signing A Jones, for god’s sake…I mean, I fail to see how either club is better (or really–as-suming we sign Lowe/Perez/Sheets) even on a par. What am I missing?
…aaaand I just saw that you said “06″, not “last year”.
Me fail english? that’s unpossible!
That ticker tape parade was so sweet in 06, what a championship!
What?
Oh, …ok, never mind.
clueless…… your point again? oh right, that you are clueless and missed the point.
one way or the other, I think the ball is going to start rolling a bit now…i would imagine lowe would get straightened out within a week, then we can move on from this…
things are popping now. Just get these guys signed (soemwhere, anywhere!) so we can all move on.
Almost time to going back to making up fanciful trade scenerios.
I still think Omar has at least 1 big trade up his sleeve. Hopefully a blockbuster!
Bring back Bobby Bonilla! We’re still paying him.
Hey all, I don’t normally post hearsay such as this, but it seems relevant at this point. I work in Atlanta with some guys who went to high school with Brian McCann. At some point back in November, these guys said that McCann stated that Derek Lowe was going to be the Braves priority for the offseason. I don’t know how the acquisition of Vasqez has impacted this, but the interest has been there for awhile.
Ok, what about 1st fantasy trade of the day from me.
What about Church to the Tigers in a package for Ordonez, Gullien or even Polanco?
If we could spin Church into Mags, I’d have to excuse myself to the restroom.
Well obviously that would take multiple propsects as well.
However, I am not so sure about Gullien. And in fact Gullien would be perfect for us. He could play LF this season and 1B next.
The transformation would then be complete..
Viva LOS METS and David Wright
Yet another super intelligent post on this blog.
dude get off your high horse. I’m teasing.
maybe not if it were straight up Church for Ordonez. Tigers would save 14M+ this year
Don’t you think there are plenty of teams that would take Ordonez and offer more than Church? I would imagine the RSox and Braves would be quite interested.
Again, Maybe Church, Kunz and Parnell for Ordonez?
I was gonna say I think DET would be getting the sh!t end of the stick there, but I wasn’t considering the $$… not so crazy at all. Hm.
I guess you’re not at all concerned with our outfield defense.
Hmm…seems like many Braves fans upset over Wren letting Smoltz get away for ~$2MM guaranteed.
On the one hand, if Wren has some making up to do (both for their staff and the fans) he may push aggressively for Lowe.
On the other hand, if he couldn’t give an additional $2MM to keep an “icon” in Atlanta, will he really give $14MM over 4 years for Lowe?
Btw, there are clear differences between Lowe and Smoltz, but those are the feelings that I’m hearing from a bunch of Braves fans.
yeah, i just dont see the braves going crazy on their per year #….they might give him the 4th year, but I dont see them really going above 12per….I am guessing (along with everyone else, and based on everything i’ve read) that we are not too flexible on the 4th year, but will probably go up to 13 or 14 per….and I still think that gets him…
if its 4/48 from the braves, and 3/42 from us, I think he takes ours, no?
Why didnt Omar BLOW away Lowe w/ and offer of 4/$52 million!!
Shock and Awe, like the Yankees did w/ Sabathia to scare away all others.
Omar blew this Lowe negotation.
Wolf and Redding = another pitiful year
Over paying isn’t really negotiating, though.
Who says it’s overpaying? You?
Forget Lowe…I just want my players back, and to add the bat we need…Manny, Ollie, and Pedro and I’m happy. Although I’d love to add Sheets, and upgrade at Catcher…but Omar pulled this same nonsense last off-season where he just let’s the whole off-season slip slide away, and doesn’t do enough to win….same old song and dance….I don’t think I can put my heart into this team anymore if they don’t land Manny….
sniffffff
whatever…
Your players weren’t very good last year.
Wow, what an interesting comment you got there.
a) shock and awe is a pretty stupid way to “negotiate” b) at 4/52 its only 13 per, and I imagine that although not on the years, but on the per, omar probably winds up going to 14 if necessary.
Tell that to the Yankees. They “got” their man CC w/ that tactic
They would have “got” their man at about 30-40 million cheaper.
Bottom line their fans arent still talking about maybe getting him or losing him to a divisional foe. Unlike our Mets who keep acting like they are KC or Pittsburgh and have no money.
Arent you sick of Freddie Coupons acting like the JV team?
This team is a NY team and have money.
They should act like it
Who had the highest NL payroll last year?
Would I like the Mets to sign Manny? Yes. Do I want them to have SOME budget restraints? Yes.
a) they outbid THEMSELVES b) your so called shock and awe is not really much….its 13million per year, and he is going to get that, or more likely 14.
Yes it was only a million more a year but I was offering a 4 year contract not 3 w/ an option
The Mets had the highest payroll in the NL last year.
They said they “will not” increase payroll this year.
As a Fri & Sun tix plan holder I wish they said that about my tix price!!
Do you think w/ SNY and Citi field they will have the same revenues as last year?
We know they will have increase in revenues it would be nice if they “reinvested” it back in the team for the fans
1. Derek Lowe is not CC Sabathia, and the market then is different than the market now….I’m not sure why you think it’s reasonable to compare the two.
2. How can you say he “blew this negotiation” when you think he should have completely avoided negotiating by “blowing him away” with a “shock and awe” offer … for Derek Lowe nonetheless…
Mets.com has an article about Minaya’s meeting w/Boras, and it stated that they discussed ALL of Boras’ free agents…that includes Manny…Graziano has been leading the anti-Manny to the Mets campaign seemingly…although…he’s just the sith…Heyman is of course the Emperor….
Let the Braves overpay for him. I’d much rather invest a 3-4 year deal for a lefty power arm that is 8 years younger and possibly add Garland or Sheets for the 5. Lowe is simply not worth 60million over 4 years.
Oh, you mean like the great Ollie Perez who ruins many a game by the fifth inning b/c he’s walked 8 freakin’ guys!
Let him power his way someplace else!
maybe not if it were straight up Church for Ordonez. Tigers would save 14M+ this year.
Let Lowe go to the Braves. Get Sheets, and Wolf, and for God’s sake get MANNY Omar.
The Braves report is all Boras. Who cares.
BLUFF - BLUFF- BLUFF
and if its not let them overpay for Lowe, I won’t be upset.
Outside of Lowe being consistent, he’s defintiely not dominant.
The best thing about Lowe is that he can train fellow sinkerballer Pelfrey, who can then become Brandon Webb or better.
2nd, i would stick with the initial offer. Lowe doesn’t want to goto ATL.
No bluff. Meeting was this morning with Cox.
Checked it on Braves web site.
its a bluff in that lowe says he wants to be in the NE and on a competing team. Sure they are talking to the braves, but only in an effort to up the Mets offer.
Imagine the fanfare and energy if we could just sign Tim Redding!
You know, I hear he likes the city.
So, people with knowledge of the discussion between Bora$ and the Mets say they didn’t discuss Manny. Oh, and others with knowledge said they discussion all of his available clients.
Which is it?
From what I can gather, I can gather quite well…
I get the sense that I can Gather…………..
in a nutshell on lowe….the mets will most likely go up to 14 per year..(3/42) but not budge on the years….if the braves go 4/48, and he chooses the extra year over the extra money per year, so be it….if the braves decide to go over 14 per year, so be it…either way, I would tend to agree with omar….am I alone on this??? guaranteeing him a 4th year (or god forbid even more) OR giving him 15 million per, I would have to agree that the braves can have him at that point
Guys… I love you! We are the most neurotic and loyal SOBs on the planet. That is all… oh and Phuck Philly.
oh yeah, and on the cc talk, it was just the yankees’ way of somehow making it easier to get over the fact that they let johan get away last year…and they still dont have a johan…they were getting cc no matter what…they would have had a bidding war with themselves until he agreed, regardless of how high the “bidding” got…
I just hope ATL lets Lowe leave. They might not let him leave till they have a deal.
Atl seems desperate; Lowe might get what he wants from them or close to it.
This is all crazy!! I am so tired of this garbage. All these people think they know what is going on. Matt says this, this site says that…..Its GARBAGE. No one knows what is going on. How the heck does Matt know or anyone know that Manny was not discussed? Matt is great at spewing and twisting everything to his credit. “Oh, I know that Manny was not discussed”. Then another source says he was. Matt then says “oh, well maybe he was. Then another report that manny was not discussed. Then Matt says, see I told you. PLEASE,….MATT or anyone has NO idea what was discussed…..If you or anyone thinks that “MAnnys name NEVER came up, then all you people are idiots………Of course they spoke about manny…This whole process of what the mets are going to do is stupid….They should have taken care of Lowe two weeks ago!! Its the same crap with this team every year…CLOWNS….The Yankees do what they need, and we just sit around waiting for something to fall into our laps…. All they have done thus far is replace wagner….The only upgrade is Putz..OTHERWISE its the same as last year…
Our pitching might be better but our offense is ok. Dont complain in the middle of the season when our pitching staff is doing its job but we cant score important runs.
Guys what about Murphy and Kunz for Delmon Young? He has a ton of potential. They need a 3B which Murphy would fit.
So bascially we would be trading our backup 3B for a starting LF and they would be trading their backup OF for a starting 3B?
I figure that because of Young’s potential and the fact that the Twins need BP help it would take a guy like Kunz thrown in.
creative.
Not saying this particular deal will go down, but it fits into my recent thoughts that Omar is looking to nail down at least 1 SP, and will then pull some unexpected trades out of his butt.
But I do love trading an excess for another teams excess. A win win.
And exactly how the Twins got Young last year (trading an extra SP to a team with extra OFs).
I don’t think that gets in done at all. Young is worth more than that and it was rumored they were trying to flip Young for a SP(niese not good enough).
ACtually it was rumored that he would be used to upgrade the pen. I thought that considering they lost out on Blake, Murphy would be a good addition. Maybe you throw in Kunz and another BP if needed.
I dont see Kunz having much value at all.
True enough, I would put Parnell in there if they would throw in Morales their AAA catcher.
I’m not sure anyone thinks Murphy can play an adequate 3B in the big leagues.
Redding + Wolf = 3rd place!!!
Well, most likely, if they had Redding + Wolf all year in 2008 instead of Ollie + Pedro, they might have won the division!
Trade FMART, Niese, Murphy, and Parnell for Jake Peavy
no. fmart can be very special. he needs another year to develop. he’s such a young kid. but, he looks like he might be a beltran caliber player.
Why do you guys care if the Mets have to spend an extra 2 million a year on Lowe?
Your ticket prices have doubled, your team has collapsed two consecutive seasons and the other teams in the division are getting better.
I’ve said this before but do you guys know how much an extra 2 million a season means to the Mets? If you’ve already invested 130 million?
dead horse time, but whether you like it or not, Omar has a budget cap.
And sure, 2 mill for 1 guy is not a big deal, but it does mean there is 2 mill less for the next guy, or to fill another hole.
its called a budget. there are more holes than just getting 1 SP.
I’m just saying, If you actually knew how long it took the mets to aquire 2 million dollars you might change your tune. For the amount of money this team makes, The budget could use some adjusting.
So if you think that 2 million is a big deal,, then where not getting Manny, Hudson or any other all star caliber player. We are going to end up with Wolf/Redding and Cora.. And you find this acceptable? Especially after what has happened the last two seasons.. And how much money this franchise takes in… Thats a bunch of ,,,,,,,,,,,
I seriously doubt we end up with Redding and Wolf.
But I’m fine with putting all available money into pitching.
And he’d be better of utilizing that budget to feel meaningful roles in the front of the rotation, rather than saving $2m to pay for a useless Alex Cora, whose production can easily be matched by any 4A league minimum salary player.
When Lowe signs with ALT….MAtt will say “I knew he was going to sign there, because the Mets waited too long” The obvious will be stated..
WOW,,,,these posts go all over the place…..Not surprising
Well, well, well…the Bravos want to compete again?
Please Omar, play this smart. Don’t over spend for a 36 year old.
damnit Larry! stay out of this!
Lowe is a decent pitcher. Probably about equivilant to Glavine when the Mets got him. Could be a nice mid-rotation (3?) guy, at a premium price of course!
But, if he signs elsewhere, it will not be the end of the world or the Mets season.
And the off season is far from over, with who knows how many moves yet to come, so can the doomsday scenerio crowd at least wait until they see the team on 4/1 before panicking?
Oh, and if anything, missing out on Lowe makes it MORE likely that they decide to make a play at manny (or at elast some offensive upgrade).
I dont panic on 4/1
As a Met fan I panic on 9/1
Lowe is much better right now than Glavine was when the Mets acquired him and shows far fewer signs of decline (in fact, he shows none) than Glavine did.
I Blame this on Omar if we lose Lowe!
He blew this one
I wish the Mets would sign Lowe, Perez and Nomar. Nomar could be your utility infielder/ outfielder and he’s a better right handed hitter than Tatis. I know its not going tio happen
This is how Boras operates. Then, he goes back to the original offer and gets more $, or works on a mystery team to jump in. The Yankees were that team for Texeira. The problem here is $. Atlanta is not going to go in on $15m per for Lowe. They might try and go 4 yrs at $12m, so what do you do if you are the Mets? I would go higher on the $ side– 3 yrs/42-42m with attainable 4th yr option, which would make it 4yrs/56 if all options are attained.
Atlanta went 5 years 75 million for Burnett, so I think ATL has the money and desire for a front of the rotation starter
I say we should just tell Boras we want to make an offer to OP and move on from Lowe. I’m sure that would speed up Lowe’s decision.
We don’t have that luxury because Boros represents both of them. He isn’t going to forsake one guy and stick it to his other client.
Well Ive been sayin this for weeks now..we are NOT going to sign Lowe…I doubt anyone will be happy with Ollie and Wolf/Redding ..I mean we need a real #2 period…so that being said I actually think not landing Lowe is a good thing.because :
1) if we settle for Ollie and Wolf/Redding we will have to upgrade our offense ..hellos Manny!!
2) or we may have to explore a trade fro a nmbr 2 ..Peavy/Halliday??
Wait,,do you hear that….can you hear that???? Its the CIRCUS music!! Here they come…..Led by OMAR with a big clown nose…There is the Wilpons with their clown suits followed by Madoff in chains!!!!
Seriously, I have to know. I have never had this much conversation with one. Tell us your secrets. By the way, do you get paid more to drive?
I dont mind missing out on Lowe ..in fact if u look back i ben sayin it for weeks we arent getting him..
I think if we settle for Ollie and Wolf/Redding
we have no choice but to get Manny
or we may just make a blockbuster for an ace (Peavy/Halliday) which may include Church/Murphy..but then we can get Dunn or Abreu..either way i think Omar and the Wilpons know we need a #2 if no Lowe then something will be done..stop worrying..new ballpark …we will be putting a good team out there ..its just taking loooong.
Its starting to look like Omar tried to play Boras and got played in return.. Remains to be seen but its definitely looking that way. Not sure how this is going to effect Boras’s other clients.
LOL, keep it up guys. This site gets funnier and funnier by the day. It’s Boras fault.
Lies. Boras should write a screenplay.
From What I can Gather I get the sense that JetsMets is a tool.
It’s bad enough that this guy hasn’t been signed yet, but if the Braves end up signing him I will be INSENSED!!!
boy matt is really down on bringing pedro back…i wouldnt mind him in the 5th spot at all…ive said it at the beginning of the offseason i think they should bring him back for the 5 spot..however..only if they get lowe..if they dont get lowe…and get perez THEN forget about pedro…and sign redding or wolf…AND manny…lol
Why is everyone panicking because Chipper and Bobby are meeting him face to face? This is what Lowe wants us to do. He wants us to panick and then overpay for him….
I am not that worried. I don’t think the Braves will be a contender with or without Lowe and I would rather have Ollie and Redding anyway.
same = safe
Can we please get this post deleted or back where it goes?
thats pretty deep…
in essence, you’re saying manny or bust…
while I would love manny, not sure I would go as far as saying my heart wont be into this team without him…if we get lowe, and have a decent #5, and a cora type guy as utility, AND the major bullpen additions we’ve already made, but DONT get manny, I think i can safely say that we had a good offseason, and my heart will most definitely be into it…
How’d you finally fix it? That was so freaking annoying.
We are not getting lowe!!!! Omar waited too long, and now ATL has got to get him….What a bunch of FREAKIN CLOWNS……
Just curious, but will you be driving the car? I have always wondered how all you guys get in AND someone still drives.
?????
I think TRS is making fun of your clown car.
LOL, thanks Stickguy
Wait,,do you hear that….can you hear that???? Its the CIRCUS music!! Here they come…..Led by OMAR with a big clown nose…There is the Wilpons with their clown suits followed by Madoff in chains!!!!
Reply
Seriously, I have to know. I have never had this much conversation with one. Tell us your secrets. By the way, do you get paid more to drive?
The WHOLE organizaton is a CIRCUS!!!! They will always be a bunch of clowns
AS far as getting paid, I get paid more to drive when your Mother is with us!!!
So you don’t get paid more to drive and you are very upset? Is that it?
Now wait a minute, now we are bringing my mom in?
You will HAVE to have a bigger car.
But this does make sense, I over heard her saying something to a friend about how the rumor about shoe size was obviously NOT true.
HAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAA………nice LOLOLOl
Thanks, I thought you might like that one.