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“The Mets and Derek Lowe remain far apart in negotiations,” Jon Heyman recently wrote to his blog for SI.com.
According to the Boston Globe, Lowe is meeting today in Atlanta with Braves GM Frank Wren and Bobby Cox.
Heyman believes the Braves could emerge as a big threat to the Mets, since ‘Atlanta saved its money after offering A.J. Burnett a deal for about $15-to-16 million a year.’
Heyman feels the Angels, Phillies and Brewers have interest in Lowe as well.
Yesterday evening, people connected to the Mets were quite confident in the team’s position, with regards to eventually signing Lowe. This, however, was before news of Lowe meeting with the Braves. I would hope the Mets knew of Lowe’s pending trip to Atlanta, and requested the opportunity to beat any other offers.
Minaya has a strong relationship with Boras, going back more than 15 years, and they have done solid business together. So, in the end, I expect the Mets to get a fair crack at signing Lowe.
The question, however, may come down to that $16 million number and the fourth year.
My biggest worry now is: what if Lowe signs in Atlanta?
At that point, given the disappointment, and situation, the Mets will have to sign Oliver Perez, who, by the way, is also represented by Boras. Knowing Minaya’s need for a starting pitcher – two actually – the Mets will have no choice but to overpay for Perez, who is already reportedly seeking a five-year deal worth roughly $70 million. If the Mets are desperate for a pitcher, especially after losing Lowe to the Braves, how do they ignore Perez’s demands at that point? This should be interesting.
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Our offer is fine. Let Lowe walk if he isn’t happy with it.
There are other serviceable options.
true. save the money for manny.
and here you go!! lol..
This is exactly what I said was going to happen when everyone was screaming that he has no choice but to sign. Braves were serious contenders for Burnett, which means they have the money and desire for starting pitching, and especially with Smoltz gone, they need to get someone who can fill the need.
At the same time, it’s doubtful that the Braves are crazy and will go for 15m over 4 years. They just don’t do that. I think the only person in recent history who got that kind of money from them is Chipper Jones. Everyone else walks. Why would they spend so much on Lowe? If they’re going to top the Mets offer it will likely not be by much…
As for your question, Matt, the answer is simple: If there are no more teams left to hand out 70 million dollar deals then he’ll have to sign for something in the middle. If the market for Lowe is so thin that we thought it was dead until the Braves emerged, then can you imagine how thin the market will be for Perez?
If the difference between the Mets offer and the Braves offer is $1m/year (or less), I have to think that Lowe starts to factor in which team is more likely to win a ring this year.
Of course, there’s also the tax issue in New York which is not an issue in Atlanta….except of course he’d have to live in Georgia.
I agree with you. He was 14-11 last year and will be 36 in June. Save the $$$ – spend it on offer for Manny – and utilize your so called minor league pitcher talent to fill the void. We can get by with Santana-pelfrey-Maine- Niese? – and whoever to make up the rotation. We shift to a mainly offensive team and score runs and win by 6-4 rather than 3-2.
At the end of the day is Lowe really worth the $$$ – I say no. Get the hitter – 20M per year (3 years as a start)
shocker…lets just move away from lowe…im so tired of this freakin ownership already…
enter,
F**K DEREK LOWE!!!
I agree with 100% they want Lowe but want him cheap .
NO they want Lowe, and don’t want to over pay him by giving him more money then Roy Owsolt or Jake Peavey.
Great point Mark4212. I think LOwe is a little over rated and he is trying to take advantage of the pitching market. I believe Perez is just as good of return to the Mets, as Lowe would be a new pick up. Plus, there is still Sheet, Wolf, Garland, Redding and Pettitte. Maybe the Mets could get two good pitchers for a little more then a want to be great Pitcher.
This could be bad!!!
lets get a grip….Lowe would be a nice pick-up, but he’s no ace, and he’s 35. This seems to be a case of liking Lowe even more now that our rival wants him. It just may be okay to let him go….you can’t give him 4 years. I would hate it more if they got Sheets and Manny. If the Braves get Lowe, we will survive.
Why, because a #3 starter could go to a 90-loss team?
So… does Boras tip Jon Heyman in cash?
and illicit favors for rosenthal
serviceable options?…who?…perez?…redding?…wolf?…as a number 2 guy?.you must have a lot of faith in them
Read any of the other threads from the past month to find plenty of objectional analysis that supports this.
Lowe is not Tom Seaver.
no hes not..no one..im not saying that at all..ok so youre saying that we are gonna be able to trade for the likes of jake peavy or someone of that caliber?…lets look at webb or lincecum then while we are at it…
If I may. . . .
The point is NOT that the Mets should only sign the very best pitchers, but that the Mets should only pay any pitcher what he is worth. Overpaying is bad business. You don’t pay Lowe like an ace or a much younger pitcher.
Who said anything about Webb or Lincecum? Or even a trade?
Go pay attention in other posts and you’ll understand what I’m saying. Lowe is not the most critical component of our offseason. The bullpen was. Our bullpen has been fixed, and now we have options for the rest of the rotation.
Emotional responses on blogs don’t carry much weight.
wade,
Show me some objective statistical analysis that says Ollie is even close to Lowe. Lowe was one of the best pitchers in the NL this year, and groundballers age much more gracefully than power pitchers.
If another team offers Lowe more than 3/36, the Mets should go to 3/45
Ollie would not necessarily be the next logical choice. We also don’t need to trade away FMart for Peavy. I would gladly take Ben Sheets and Jon Garland over 1 Derek Lowe.
Objective statistical analysis suggests that Lowe is FAR superior to Ollie or Wolf.
Ollie is worth half what Lowe is, even at Lowe’s age. It’s not even close.
Lowe had the 3rd best FIP in the national league last season. Ollie wasn’t even in the top 30.
Lowe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ollie
do you think that had anything to do with playing in a big pitchers park, in a weak nl west, and it being his contract year?
It was Ollie’s contract year too…
and if the NL West is so terrible why did Ollie put up these numbers vs. them:
Giants: 1/3 IP, 162 ERA
Dodgers: 6 IP, 7.50 ERA
Padres: 5.1 IP, 1.69 ERA
You’d better take that back before Gina reminds you how bad Ollie was vs. the “weak” NL West.
I have mentioned Ollie in the past, but I didn’t just now.
But Ollie had a higher K/9 than Lowe. So in that case
Ollie >>>>>> Lowe
See? I can make up numbers to support an arguement as well.
I’m saying Lowe is not everything we need. Lowe is not worth $16M/year especially when we are being as budget-wary as we are this year.
The difference is I’m being objective. I love Ollie but he’s WAY overrated.
FIP is a great stat – I didn’t invent it. Much better than ERA for predicting future performance. If you want to discount it that’s your prerogative. Google it though, it’s good stuff. Removes defense and bullpen factors from ERA.
Ollie led the league in walks. And he didn’t even pitch 200 innings. Any contract mroe than 4 years and $8-9 mil a year is a bad contract for him.
James: where were you for the last few weeks when I’ve been making the same arguments (albeit without FIP)?
Lowe’s value as an innings eater and extreme groundball pitcher (2nd in NL last year) are much more important than the flash value of Ollie’s every third game. Plus, there are no signs that Lowe has aged — his K rate is higher than ever, his control is better than ever and he has little mileage on his arm for a 36 year old starter because of his experience in the pen.
[Reposting to avoid moderation]
Again, I didn’t specifically mention anybody. Ollie was wildly ineffective last year. I get that. However, there are other options. Lowe is 36 years old. Name me 3 pitchers in the past 5 years who pitched well into their 40s that a) were not wildly accused of HGH (Clemens), and b) are not named John Smoltz (who is so far out of Lowe’s clas-s the comparison is absurd).
Moyer? Pedro? Glavine? Maddux? Kenny Rogers?
There is not much precedent to justify giving a 4 year deal to someone who is already 36, who has spent the past few years pitching in the offensively starved NL West in a big ballpark, who already can’t miss bats, and relies so heavily on a strong defense.
Lowe is a serviceable #2/#3, but he is only worth 3 years and $36M. Oman nailed that one on the head.
if I may add fuel to this fire:
SNLVAR is a pitching metric that takes into account just about everything, including the quality of batters faced.
the lowest (pun intended) SNLVAR Derek has produced in the last four years (a reasonable time frame) is 3.8, good for 35th in the league in 2005. In the following years he’s put up 6.2 (4th), 4.4 (22nd), and 6.4 (4th).
Ollie’s best was 4.4 (27th) last year, and 4.0 (27th) the year before (and negligible in 05 since he barely pitched).
For reference sake, the top pitchers each year were: Clemens 9.4, Oswalt 7.7, Peavy 9.1, and Lincecum at 8.6 (Santana was second at 8.5).
So basically, Lowe’s fluctuated from good to very good over the last 4 years, and ollie’s been (objectively) good. I guess it comes down to whether you believe Ollie’s got the head to improve; he’s still got upside. Is that potential worth more $$ wise (which seems to be the price we’d have to pay should Lowe go elsewhere) than Lowe’s probably dependable performance, if you’re going to be shelling out 15 mil per in either case…I suppose it depends on personal philosophy.
Wade:
How many of those guys had as little wear on their arms as Lowe?
Lowe has only pitched 300 more innings in his career than the 29 year old Garland.
Lowe’s arm is younger than his age thanks to his time spent in the pen.
OP/Sheets and Garland would be fine.
Santana
OP/Sheets
Pelfrey
Maine
Garland
Niese in the wings . . .
Lowe shouldn’t be considered a #2. You have Pelfrey and Maine. Lowe is not worth anymore $$$$ – if he would can get this from another team let him do so. Use the $$$ elsewhere. We should have picked up Burrell for the $$$ he received from TB! We need the bat…
Let’m go!
NOOOOOO
Lets forfeit the 2009 season!
LMAO…who’s he jesus?
Its heyman, so this article is worthless. Although I’m fine with Lowe walking.
LOL, so how far is it from Atlanta to NY? Because that’s the only way the Mets are far away from Lowe.
I mean what is far away. Mets are saying 3/36 and he wants 5/70. If you settle right in the middle that’s 4/52. Is that what far away is?
I agree. Time to move on. If we can’t buy Lowe, then we certainly don’t want to buy High.
ba dum ching!
He’ll be here all week folks!
Try the veal!
Still if Lowe walks…
We would have signed Lowe, Redding.
You don’t lose that much if you use the extra money to get Perez, Garland.
Yes Lowe is much better than Perez but Garland is better than Redding so does it really make a difference?
I would like to have Lowe but I am not losing sleep over him going to Atlanta.
Happy to have the Braves overpay for anyone. The Yankees they aren’t. They won’t try to spend themselves out of bad contracts.
And that’s exactly why all they’re doing is trying to drive up Lowe’s price and do a favor for Boras. I’d wanna be on his good side as well…
The problem with this, though, is Smoltz’ signing. The Braves had been in the market before, but the pressure has just gone up on them to bring in another starter (their rotation right about now? Jurrjens, Vazquez, pray for rain). They’ve got JUST enough money and incentive to be problematic… or at least to drive up Lowe’s asking price a tick or two.
I’m on board with this line of thinking. After losing Smoltz, Wren needs to do SOMETHING….What did they offer Burnett? Were the numbers ever reported?
All I could find was: “The Braves’ offer was believed to be worth $80 million, after the Braves increased an initial four-year, $64 million offer by turning a fifth-year option into a guarantee.”
Clearly they’ve got some cash available to spend…
supposedly, the braves offseason budget is at $47mil, so of course they can outbid us………let them.
Omar tried to play games with Boras and got burned. Now his backup plan is Pedro. GREAT!!
I’m sorry, has Lowe signed with the Braves yet?? Or for the matter, have they even made him an offer?
Tried to play games??? Do you mean “offered less than another team”? Do you honestly think Boras doesn’t shop around for the best possible offer?
You think the offering of contracts to Redding and Wolf immediately prior to his meeting with Boras was just a coincidence? He was making a statement to Boras,,
“if you don’t come down on your price, then were going with these guys”..
Boras called his bluff and the Braves went all in…….
not for anything, but redding is a possibility for the #5 spot, so his offer means nothing to boras/lowe, and the alleged wolf offer, which we were “close to making” never surfaced, so we didnt really do anything that had any impact on the lowe situation at all.
think about it man. Was it necessary for Omar to make those offers or leak those names right before the meeting. Are Redding and Wolf in heated talks with other clubs. Its was Omar’s lame attempt at putting pressure on Boras and it backfired.
Dude you need to chill. All that’s happening is the Braves are meeting with him. The Mets will have plenty of time to counter if they choose to. No agent will sign a deal before he’s been told “no” by everyone else. So, in the words of the immortal BIG, “Get a grip moth—–ker”
yeah, what games did omar play, exactly??
read above
SO what should have Omar done, said here is 5 for 80… oh don’t like that how aobut 6 for 96 ooooo don’t like that how about 7 for 112.
Was he supposed to out-bid himself like the yankees did for both CC and AJ.
No need.
The season doesn’t hinge on Lowe. Would he be a better addition then Ollie, of coarse. But would i rather ollie at 5 for 12 then lowe at 4 for 15…. 100%.
And it’ s not that the 3 million a year is that big of a deal, and i know Lowe is the better pitcher overall, but in 3 years i would much rather be paying Ollie 12 million dollars then a 39 turning 40 year old Lowe.
I”m with the commenter’s that say Ollie and Garland is equal to Redding and Lowe.
I understand and appreciate your point and it better explains the position you took in our conversation in the other related topic.
But I still disagree for a couple of reasons. One, I’m not that concerned with the fourth year. This team has enough talent to try to win in the next two. anything after that from Lowe is gravy.
Second, Even if Perez is better in the f4th and 5th years than Lowe, it’s not worth it to me to have the worse pitcher in years 1 and 2, if not year 3.
Perez is so much of a crapshoot.
lets just put it this way…mets dont get lowe..there is NO REASON why we cant get manny…im sick of hearing “ohhh wah wah wilpons dont like him”…then get over it..
how does not getting lowe make it more feasible for us to get manny? If we don’t get lowe at 14, we will probably get ollie at 10-12, and the difference between the 2 will probably go towards a little better #5 than if we had gotten lowe…
It has zero effect on us getting manny.
Great point! In CitiField I think Manny Ramirez could win 14-15 games with an ERA in the high 3’s!
Oh wait, what were we talking about? Pitching? This is like being sent to the supermarket to buy milk and coming home and saying “well they were out of milk, but that just meant I could get Cheetos instead!”
good one, and my point exactly…..us getting lowe means no manny, but ollie (or wolf) instead of lowe, somehow equates to manny…not sure how that works….love your comparison
lol
This is what the Mets get for dealing with Lowe’s agent, Borat. By the way, he was very funny in his movie, “Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan”
Until Heyman shows us another offer that Lowe has on the table, these ‘Far Apart’ talks should be treated as nothing but hot-air.
If Lowe sign with the braves.. Its possible we have the 4th best staff in the NL EAST.. Think about it… before you jump on me.
Phillies, Braves is without a doubt better.
Marlins maybe not so much but they do have some young studs..
Considering the rotation isn’t complete yet, this topic is moot.
4th best? We have THE best pitcher in all of baseball, 2 young guns of our own (however, young studs on other teams are ALWAYS better and more promising than our guys, right?) and the probability of bringing back Ollie or bringing in Lowe. PLUS, we’ll have one of the better bullpens in the division. How does this make us have the 4th best staff? I’m confused…
come on dude.. Phish and the Dead just announced summer tours.. at least there will be something to get excited about.
Marlins: Nolasco, Josh Johnson, Andrew Miller, Anibal Sanchez… that’s a LOT of talented arm-age. And they did alright against us the last couple of weeks, no?
Talent is there, but those kids still have to put it all together, and stay healthy.
Without Lowe, the Phils have a better (and complete) rotation.
WIth Lowe, the Mets are better.
well said…..on the a*s*s*umption that we get lowe, OR ollie (which there’s a REALLY good chance we get one of them) Johan, Lowe/Ollie, Big Pelf, Maine, Redding/similar is one of the better rotations…
and like jaydh pointed out, until the rotation is set, this is a moot point…
Yes, there certainly is a doubt.
Although right now the mets only have 3 guys in the rotatin, so I guess they can’t expect much on day 4 and 5…
at least wait to see what the rotation ends up as.
And Santana, Maine Pelf is as good as hamels, myers, moyer.
And what is the Braves rotation? Jurjien, Vargas, Lowe (is he signs?)
“Santana, Maine Pelf is as good as hamels, myers, moyer.”
No chance in hell. I mean honestly…think about it…
A Braves rotation of Jurrjens, Lowe, Vazquez, Jo-Jo Reyes and….I don’t even know who else is “no doubt better” than one fronted by Johan, Maine, and Pelf?
Really?
What happened to Hudson? is he still injured?
everyone does realize this quote is from heyman, right?? He is definitely on boras’ payroll somehow…
and until another team actually, MAKES AN OFFER, how the hell are we FAR AWAY???
Heyman posts are worth s*it.
Instead of Orlando Hudson and Derek Lowe, we’re going to get Orlanda Hernandez at Low cost.
Let the braves overpay him. They can have him.
It’s still troubling to me that Boston would rather gamble $12 million on a 42-year-old coming off of major shoulder surgery plus someone who had a 6.28 ERA last year than on Lowe. Something is not right there, considering Lowe might have given the Sox a discount even.
Then apart from Lowe’s age, there’s his 4.24 ERA on the road the last 3 years. If you exclude Ollie’s 2006 season, where he spent part of it in Pittsburgh, his road ERA the last two years is better than Lowe’s!
If they can get Ollie or Sheets and Wolf, it will be better than getting the overrated Lowe.
Yup, I’m sure Lowe will be fine in 2009. But after that, you may be paying 14+mil per year for a #4 SP, thats just plain stu-pid.
The Sox’s Smoltz deal is for 5.5 guaranteed. It doesn’t come close to 12 million unless he meets certain performance standards, as I understand… and if he performs at a Smoltzian level for the last 5 months and the playoffs, he’s well worth the 12.
(IOW, you’ll have to look elsewhere for no-Lowe leverage.)
Read my post again. I was talking about Smoltz and Penny.
The Sox spent $12 million on two big gambles without even trying to get Lowe back on a discount.
Actually it was 13.5 + incentives.
So it could be even more. 8.5+ Incentives for Penny and 5.5 plus incentives for smoltz.
That sent me scratching my head when they didn’t even put a feeler out for lowe.
how do you guys know they didn’t feel him out? Besides, their needs are different. They don’t urgently need a #2 or #3. They can afford to gamble on high risk high reward if it means saving 30 mil…
There was a report the other day stating someone close to Lowe said there has been no interest from the Sox this winter. Others have reported the same.
Apples and oranges. Boston is taking a one year flier to fill the bottom of their rotation to buy Bucholz, Bowden and Masterson more time (or to leave masterson in the pen).
The Mets need to fill a front of the rotation spot because we traded our Jon Lester to TB for Victor Zambrano and because every Japanese player we’ve ever signed has been horrible.
Sure, the respective situations may be different.
But Theo has always placed a premium on pitching and they have money to burn (more than the Mets) so it makes no sense for them not to even talk to Lowe.
Spending the same or money on two inferior pitchers doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Lowe was interested in going back and probably would have even given them a discount.
The sky isn’t falling… yet. But the potential signing is problematic not just because it’s the Braves upgrading: one option going to another team will increase the prices, if incrementally, on guys like Sheets and Ollie… and Garland and Wolf. In a buyer’s market, you want to be the first to buy.
He’s allowed to talk to other teams– we haven’t brought him to the altar yet; fielding offers doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re not in the running, or have “lost” our “standing.”
I just hope we’re not left crying, “If we liked him, then we should have put a ring on ‘im.”
Sorry guys, I just cut and pasted my last post from another email I wrote, and I forgot to take the curses out.
Sign Sheets, Manny. Done.
And fill out the rotation with Livan and Looper. Done.
Just sign Lowe and get it over with. The Mets are penny pinching in hopes of benefiting from the economy but they might just screw themselves by waiting too long. It seems apparent that its going to take more $$ to sign Lowe. I think I’d rather have him than Oliver Perez and certainly much more than Wolf.
they are going to screw themselves and I am a huge Mets fan and if they screw this up I am really going to be angry with this constant penny pinching.
Will you be angy enough to learn how to punctuate?!
It’s not Penny Pinching. But Lowe isn’t worth that much money. He Flat out isn’t. People Killed the Mets when they didn’t get Big Names over the years when they put out their offers and got blown away. Zito was #1 that comes to mind.
15 mil a year for a questionable #2 pitcher. A guy who has never really been a Top of the Rotation guy. A guy who really has never been great at all.
Lowe would be a good signing at 12-13 mil a year, and realistically speaking if Johan is worth 20 a year, Lowe is worth 10, so we are over paying him. He’s not a 15 million dollar a year pitcher. Just like Carlos Silva wasn’t a 12 million dollar a year pitcher. You don’t just throw money away to get the Best name on the Market…. See Yankees 2000-Present.
Sure he’d be overpaid, but he’s still good — well above average. Silva is not a good comparison. Silva is terrible and just about everybody knew it.
I’m not concerned with getting full value. It’s not my money. But I am concerned with getting quality pitchers and Lowe is a quality pitcher — the best of the remaining free agents other than Sheets, who would be a worse investment.
While he’d be overpaid, the market is what it is. AJ Burnett was just paid ridiculous sums of money and will be lucky to pitch in 30 games in 3 of the 5 seasons he was signed for.
The Mets have to stop this game of chicken, they are going to come out on the losing side. Raise the offer and give Lowe a fair offer. If not We will have an ace and 3 #3 or 4 starters- Woif and Redding do not equal Lowe’s ability
“Give Lowe a fair offer”
You don’t think 36 million to a 40 year old pitcher is fair?
So a lot more has been said on the issue today… As has been restated on countless occasions, if Lowe wasn’t worth a monster contract (ie over 15 mil per) when he was in his prime, why is he hands down above any pitcher now? I will never claim that, in terms of micro#s and regular stats, Perez at this stage is more consistent or better than Lowe. I will claim, however, that his traits of being 27, LH, hard throwing, and K producing are IRREPLACEABLE in modern day baseball and thus he should not be left to pasture. We would not be experiencing extreme dropoffs in production if we let Lowe walk. Im an extreme scenario, 3 wins and a.50 difference in ERA is the biggest plus (and this isn’t guaranteed) he would provide. Dice-K/Lester/Dan Haren (other #2s) he ain’t… Move on, it won’t kill us not to have Lowe.
On a separate note, does anyone else feel alarmingly uncomfortable about allowing a platoon of Muprhy/Tatis to patrol LF. Save for you know who, any ideas?? I do not want zero LF production again, and I think this is a more pressing need than 2b, as Castillo is bad but 2b is not a power position.
Baldelli’s out, as are Burrell and Bradley.
Thoughts for LF (or RF, since Church can play either), in rough order of desirability: Dunn
Abreu
Garret Anderson (personally, do not want)
Luis Gonzalez
Jay Payton
Gabe Kapler (bench/platoon option?)
ok let me finish so i can help you out ok:
Abreu (personally, do not want)
Garret Anderson (personally, do not want)
Luis Gonzalez (personally, do not want)
Jay Payton (personally, do not want)
Gabe Kapler (bench/platoon option?)
GET MANNY instead of all this bums.. or settle for dunn
Also….
Wilkerson
Hinske
Podsednik
Bloomquist (bonus: can play ANY position apart from P and C– new Super Joe?)
Oh, and +3 wins over a replacement from ANY starting pitcher is a pretty big difference in the standings at year’s end.
(Hell, add two wins last year, and we’re division winners.)
ok, let me help you out again:
Wilkerson (NO)
Hinske (NO)
Podsednik (NO)
Bloomquist (bonus: can play ANY position apart from P and C– new Super Joe?) (NO)
That’s rightEephus, the only way we are going to be upgrading second base is through the production we get out of left field. You can go right ahead and even throw Schneider into the equation too. For those very reasons, left field is a significant issue that needs to be addressed. I’m sure they will be taking a hard look at it after the pitching is determined.
For every extra strikeout Ollie gives you over Lowe, he also gives you almost 2 extra walks.
True story.
I have no problem replacing that trait.
Hailing from the lakes of louisiann in baton rouge: BENJAMIN M. SHEETS and from culiacan mexico OLIVER PEREZ!!!!!
Gotta sign Ollie before Lowe. Once Lowe gets his BS deal, it will increase Ollie’s price tag…a lot.
Yep… in this market, it seems like it behooves us– or anyone else– to be the market-setters. (Simply put, we have a desperate need for at least ONE option… so Boras et. al. know we can’t walk away from one of Perez or Sheets or Lowe.)
I’m alarmed that Lowe is personally attending this meeting. I think it shows he’s more interested in the Braves, and may have been personally recruited by Chipper and Cox. I think the Mets will lose out on him unless they make a higher offer. I agreed with Omar standing pat when he had no other competition, but now things have changed. Please move your butt, Omar. I think you should bag Ollie as well. For what you’re charging for seats, you can afford it.
Big deal.. let him walk to the whinners braves..
ERA on the Road:
Lowe
4.19 (2007)
4.42 (2008)
Ollie
3.95 (2008)
3.20 (2007)
Derek Lowe is so much a product of Dodgers Stadium. He’s a mirage. Overrated.
VCARVER:
Thank you!!!!
i’ve said that many times, why are we enfatuated wit a guy who went west after his dis-sapointment last season with the sox.. this guy is not that good.. unless we have sheets i rather not even touch the guy.. he’s a lil bitch.. comparing himself to silva,
I mean, geez, even with Ollie’s meltdown in SF last season, his road performance overall the last two years has been better than Lowe’s.
And why aren’t they even considering Sheets for a cheapie deal? Unless there is a serious issue with his arm, there is no excuse.
i don’t get it either.. we are sooo in love wit a guy who is obviously looking for money… at this point i rather have silva..
another thing i’m scare of.. sammy sosa is a free agent.. he’s best friends with minaya.. and he’s 39.. so..
Right there with ya fellas….
I’m all for Ollie and Garland for the price of Lowe and Redding. that’s a very solid rotation with the Best pitcher in baseball anchoring.
Johan, Righty, Ollie, Righty Righty (righty=Pelf, Maine, Garland).
That’s a good rotation top to bottom. No true #2, and no true #5.
And at Citizens Bank, Lowe has a 2.25 ERA for his career.
And Citifield is supposed to be a pitcher’s park, as well.
And all your post proved was that as much as you claim Lowe can’t pitch outside of LA, Perez can’t pitch IN NY, where you apparently want him to pitch half or more of his games.
First off how Citi field plays, no one really knows. I know an article has been written saying it will be a great pitchers park because of its dimensions, but as we all know with Shea, a lot more than dimensions affect run scoring.
Second, the point is that Lowe has no upside at the age of 36. In fact, he would be expected to decline. Ollie being 10 years younger still has a lot of upside. The potential for improvement is greater than for Lowe.
Third, Dodgers stadium has been a significantly better pitchers park than Shea. Go look at the park factors at espn.com if you doubt this.
The road splits are a good way to eliminate home park factors from the equation.
I wouldn’t mind Ollie and Ben Sheets with pedro and insurance. I’d be happy with that as well.
I dont mind missing out on Lowe ..in fact if u look back i ben sayin it for weeks we arent getting him..
I think if we settle for Ollie and Wolf/Redding
we have no choice but to get Manny
or we may just make a blockbuster for an ace (Peavy/Halliday) which may include Church/Murphy..but then we can get Dunn or Abreu..either way i think Omar and the Wilpons know we need a #2 if no Lowe then something will be done..stop worrying..new ballpark …we will be putting a good team out there ..its just taking loooong.
Why does anyone think that when lowe signs with the Braves, that we will be able to get ollie for 10-12 mil? If anything it will take the same 14 mil to get ollie at that point. They might as well go to ollie right now and offer him 13 mill for three years with a fourth year option…But OH I forget, we are dealing with a FREAKIN CIRCUS ACT!! CLowns!!
That’s exactly what we should do. We should give Ollie a fair offer. It would be less effective as Boras represents both he and Lowe. But the way to get this done the right way is not to give exclusive attention to one person at a time.
The same holds true for the other SP out there. Why can’t we carry 6 SP if they are all signed at their value? Take a look at the Red Sox. They are one of the best run organizations right now, and they have 7+ SP.
I agree, and isn’t that what Omar supposedly did with the closers? Offered all three a contract, and first to take it was in? That was one of the rumors, anyway.
just screw lowe…..sign sheets/ollie, then there should be no problem in getting the best player availablee, MANNY RAMIREZ!
manny is going to cost 25 million per year….how do you do the math that says that the 2-4 million difference between lowe and ollie gives us 25 MILLION???
maybe if the braves get lowe we’ll go after sheets – he’s the best pitcher left and in my mind definitely worth taking a flyer on – i still can’t understand why there are no rumors linking the mets w/ him
This worries me, too. I like Sheets a lot (at his likely price right now, maybe a better value than Lowe).
I agree that Lowe isn’t the be-all/end-all as far as this offseason is concerned… I just worry that we’re targeting the wrong alternatives (Perez, Wolf, Garland), all of which would cost us Lowe-lite dollars for performance that– gaudy win numbers aside– isn’t much above what a full season of Brandon Knight/Jon Neise/Bobby Parnell would provide. (Ignore ERA for a second– something that’s a lot more defense/luck influenced than you may think– and focus on WHIP, K/BB, FIP and other stats that are less dependent on non-individual matters, and you’ll see what I mean.)
Ollie had an ERA over 8 outside the division
not too mention this is just a plot by Boras to get the Mets to raise the ante.
Boras represents 99.9% of baseball. he can be talking to the braves about any one of his clients
Lowe is no Johan but he is the best FA pitcher out there. Does anyone really think this team would go far with Wolf and Pedro ? This team so far has no buzz goiing into 09
Sheets is the ‘best pitcher out there’, not Lowe.
agreed……sheets was probably the best pitcher out there in the beginning of the offseason, even better then CC….one catch, the HEALTHY sheets…..all this buzz about his elbow and shoulder has lots of teams (not just us) nervous about him…..
I don’t get how people can analyze this situation as if Lowe were an item on a shelf with a set price tag that the Mets aren’t willing to pay for. Does anyone think that there’s any offer we could make (outside of something completely ridiculous) that would cause Boras to stop shopping him around? Do you think that if we were to offer him a few mil more a year tomorrow that Boras would say “Well, that sounds fair- we’ll just take that.”? Or for that matter, that he’d do that for Atlanta if the Braves offered him a little more? This isn’t about anyone “penny pinching” or not coming in with a strong offer. Boras will hold his client back until everyone has made their highest possible offers. Whoever offers him the most money will get him, and everyone will get a chance to outbid everyone else. If the Braves really do offer him 4 years at 16 per, then good luck to him- he isn’t worth near that much. I seriously doubt they will, though, and until they actually offer him more than us, I don’t see why anyone should be worried about it.
A voice of reason? On HERE? :)
The thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that the leverage issue works both ways– our presence in the “race” forces the Braves upward of where they’d be most comfortable offer-wise. And I’m fairly certain that Boras isn’t jumping at any Braves offer without running it by CitiField’s finest first for matching.
well said….everyone thinks we should put in a higher bid right now, even though ours is still the only offer….its like if we saw a house we wanted to buy, offerred $400k for it, then someone else looked at the house…they didnt do anything, just looked at it, and we freaked out and said, “OK, I’ll give you $450 for it!!!” Would any rational person do that? Or would they wait until a 2nd offer came in….everyone should chill a little bit…
Well said, kidfromqueens!
::waits patiently for TRS to read all post and come in on high horse::
LMAO
I understand Matt’s logic on Ollie if we lose out on Lowe; however, how exactly are we going to be backed into a corner when there will be no competition for Ollie either? If anything, Ollie would be the one backed into the corner knowing that the Mets are the only one’s out there with money in their wallet.
The dodgers are still out there and supposedly have interest in Ollie.
I think that there might actually be more clubs interested in Ollie than Lowe simply because he’s a whole lot younger and is perceived to be cheaper.
Billingsley, Kuroda, Kershaw, and 2 of prospect Jeremy McDonald, Eric Stults, Hong Chih Kuo and Jason Schmidt? The Dodgers are okay… and they’ve got bigger holes than the rotation for Lowe’s potential cost.
Here’s a lesson on supply and demand.
If Lowe goes to the braves, you have one less suitor who can sign Ollie.
So, Perez can’t demand the same as Lowe. He’ll have to get less.
Please see, Fuentes.
I’d say there’s more supply than demand.
listem i like lowe but i dont love him i really think this team could go far with sheets and maybe ollie if he matures so lets make an offer on sheets JUST IN CASE
The more this goes on, the happier I am that the Mets made that offer. If he decides to sign with Atlanta, which is NOT in the northeast, then I sign Ollie/Manny/ Redding OR Ollie/Sheets/Abreu.
Interesting, sickening is more the word I would use. As I’ve been saying all along, the Mets HAVE to get LOWE or more like HAD. Now, they’ve let things get out of hand. Maybe they could have nipped things in the bud, but of course, Boras is his agent and no fool, so OK, Minaya knows this and knows that Boras will dictate the pace, but it was maybe a little insulting to give that lowball offer, but I said that about the original F-ROD offer, too and that seems to have already been forgotten. I knew that Lowe was a “commodity” worth more than the Mets were supposedly thinking he was gonna be worth. Other teams have interest, especially considering what’s currently out there and the demand.
Conversation starter:
If you compare Pelfrey to Lowe (2008 stats), they are not that far apart:
Stats below are Lowe vs. Pelfrey:
ERA: 3.24 vs 3.74
WHIP: 1.13 vs. 1.36
BAA: .246 vs .276
Pelf lags behind because of his walks and lack of Ks.
But, here’s the interesting part, Lowe had a career best in BBs. Can you really expect him to duplicate this effort again? Also, Lowe’s K/BB ratio was a career high (actually, it was extremely high versus his norm).
The BAA? Well, Pelf gave up 15 more hits than Lowe in 10.1 less innings, that’s not good.
What’s my point? You have to expect improvement for Pelfrey, who’s about to start his second full season int he bigs. With modest improvement, he’s basically in the Lowe category of pitchers.
Can Pelfrey be an awesome surprise next year? Can he be the #2 pitcher we need?
I hope so.
Absolutely, he’ll be our Brandon Webb.
except the Verducci Effect…young pitchers who experience such a jump in innings will probably suffer a drop in performance the following year. He may eventually be a version of webb, but it seems wise to expect a bump in his career road next year.
You’ve hit it spot on. Our initial offer wasn’t our final offer. Boras would be a fool not to shop Lowe around. If the Braves over spend that works out well for us in the long run when they’re straddled for cash and we sign younger players. I think we need Lowe, but we don’t need him if we have to overpay.
This is how “Borris” –and Natasha! drive the price higher for their clients.
This is a trick!
Don’t fall for it!
Boras is setting up a game of chicken.
BTW, was watching MLB network last night. Pretty cool. I’ll miss Harold Reynolds.
Let’s just go get Ben Sheets and another lesser non Boras client, like Garland. 14-15 mil a year for Lowe at his age is crazy.
i dont understand all of u ppl saying to forget about lowe…He is a #2…there are no other number 2s out there…if he ends up goin to the braves then we will have to overpay to get ollie…and overpaying to get ollie could cost as much as lowe will cost…omar dont give up on lowe!
Omar blew this one
How did he blow it? Derek Lowe is allowed to talk to the gm of the braves, that doesn’t mean anything…when he signs a contract with them, then it means something…until then, just wait before you criticize the guy that just fixed our bullpen issues.
sign Perez now then.
Freddie Coupons strikes again!!
What a dou&%bag comment
Im sooooo sick of this ownership
They act like we are a team in KC or Pittsburgh. They are soooo cheap!
Is this team in the biggest market in the US??
If so then spend like it!!
so the highest payroll in the NL and 3rd in MLB bsically the same as pittsburg or KC. Come on Omar does not want to overpay for Lowe so he has a ceiling he is willing to spend and it the price does go higher then we move on to someone else. It’s smart business. We have two top closers the 2nd highest paid pitcher and a 17 million dollar a year center feilder. I hate when people make such idiotic comments acting like we have the marlins payroll. I guess you are secretely a yankees fan who doesnt understand what a budget is.
Are we in the 3rd biggest market???
Why cant we spend like we are in the first now that we have a New Stadium and Network (SNY)
Our Payroll should be going up this year, my Fri and Sunday tix plans did!!
we probably are in the 3rd biggest market after the Yankees market and the Red Sox market.
There is NO excusr for the Mets not to have the second biggest payroll in baseball and it should be a close second not $70 million less then the first
oh im sorry the 3rd biggest payroll isnt good enough for you.
And how is the 200 million dollar payroll working out for the yankees especially in 08???
This is poor news. If we get Lowe our rotation will be real good ,but if w get Perez we will have the same rotation as last year minues a bad Pedro and maybe a 10 game winner in redding. Our rotation will be very good. However,as far as Pelfreys phycie i think being a number 3 is better in his development. He is no doubt a number two though
i love how everyone is going totally ballistic based on something that heyman said…..
theres not one other offer out there for lowe yet, how are we FAR APART????
people, chill!!! stop calling for omars head, and flipping out on the wipons……this is how one NEGOTIATES!!!
thank you, someone who is actually rational…man, people need to chill with the freddie coupon.
Your right, besides, its a Jon Heyman story. Only thing he ever used to say was the Mets are interested in KROD.
He is Fred Coupon because he is looking for bargins all year so far when everybody knows the money he is about to make with the new stadium, Sny,and Citi group
Hes paying 12 million for a closer, and 5 million for a set up man so far this year. How is that a Coupon?
Are you the Met’s Comproller?..or even an accountant?
Or do you just pull things out of your a$$?
When you build a stadium and network it takes a lot of upfront money that takes years to see back in revenue. The first few years are usually in the red.
Encino, very very good point.
Also dont forget the red the mets are seeing from Bernie.
So let me ask you this, if you can buy something at one store for 10 dollars but another store is selling it for 5 dollars where are you going to buy it?
what’s wrong with trying to pay the least amount? it’s not like he’s not going to raise the offer when he has to! The man got us Krod this year and he you know if other teams were after him he would of spent mroe if he had to, so don’t even lie. Don’t forget Santana was the highest paid pitcher last year until CC went in pinstripes.
So this freddie coupon is nonsense and its the stupidest thing i ever heard.
Keep defending the Coupons yes they opened there wallets for K-Rod but at a discounted price and Putz was a trade so they traded some salary This is my point the Mets like and need Lowe so sign him
who cares if they got krod at a discounted price? thats the price they were able to secure him at, why overpay for him because you can?
Can we trade tullydew for a bag of balls?
i’d take that trade
I have a no trade clause in my contract
your just like castillo a cancer to everyone you come into contact with
why is no one talking about Ty wiggington?
1. Could get him on the cheap.
2. Can platoon with any position other than SS
3. Compete with Castillo for second base.
4. Kids got guts and heart. Not afraid to get dirty..
Seems like a perfect fit for this team.
Why should Omar spend a second distracted by anything else in the next few days?
he’s a pull hitter who mashed in houston where the park favors righties. look at his home/road splits. he wouldn’t be a bad backup, but he wants to be paid (and play) as a starter.
He took umbrage at giving up his job for David Wright. You think he’d be willing to play Super Joe 2009?
Teams like Pittsburgh, Minnesota and Houston are interested in him as a starter, the rumormongers say. At 3 yrs/>17 million (he’s turned that down), he’d also be one expensive backup.
Darth, those are great points from OUR point of view. But, I dont think thats what he is settling for right now. He has been an everyday player at some position the past few years, there’s no reason he should settle for a platoon position now. Maybe in a month or two if there aren’t many buyers left, but until then, he will seek a 3 year deal for decent money and the opportunity to play everyday, and those are things we can’t give him.
true.
The longer this goes on the more and more I get nervous :(
Why are NY fans so impulsive. Settle down. Why are we going to overpay for a guy until we absolutely must overpay? There’s nothing wrong with Omar trying to bring Lowe in for the cheapest possible deal. For all we know, he already plans to go 15-16 million, but…you don’t start with that offer. Just because that’s how the yankees do it, doesn’t make it right.
Don’t get nervous and suicidal until Lowe actually is getting an offer from the Braves. Until then, we don’t know what they will give him, and we will and should wait until they make an offer.
That said, I trust Omar that he will get this done. He knows what’s left in the market, and he doesn’t want a multiyear deal with Ollie. He will give Lowe what he wants to come here. If Lowe doesn’t want to come here, it’ll be because of his desire and not b/c of lack of correct $$. End of story.
“phukthephills says:
January 8, 2009 at 4:12 pm
i dont understand all of u ppl saying to forget about lowe…He is a #2…there are no other number 2s out there…if he ends up goin to the braves then we will have to overpay to get ollie…and overpaying to get ollie could cost as much as lowe will cost…omar dont give up on lowe!:
You’re right we need Lowe. We don’t want to overpay however. This will work out in the end. I think we’ll still get him.
sabermetrician,
if you need soemhting really bad, (as the mets need quality SP very badly) sometimes you have to overpay to get it. Especially if he is the only quality SP available via FA.
dude, he still has not received another offer yet!!!! you do not pay high, or up your initial bid until there is a second offer on the table!!! (unless you are the yankees, of course) so honestly, what are you suggesting that omar do?? Are you saying that right now, before the braves (or whoever else) makes a SINGLE OFFER, that he should put in a 2nd offer of his own at 4/56???
I just dont understand what you people would like omar to be doing as of RIGHT NOW
I’m not saying you have to start high. All im saying is that if it gets to a point where he has to be overpaid, then you must do it.
That is true but you do not have to do it until you need to. Currently no one else has offered him so why break the bank until you have to do it.
thats my point…everyone is freaking out bc they TALKED to the braves, and because HEYMAN said the mets and lowe are far apart!!! Get a hold of yourselves, people!!!!
This is how it works when you want something:
1) You establish the # that you deem fair value
2) you put in an offer, which is somewhat below that # (reason being, if no one else bids, the seller takes it, and you save $$$
3) someone else wants it, and puts in a bid of their own
4) a*s*s*uming their # is not higher than the # you established in step #1, you then put in your REVISED offer…
5) a*s*s*uming the other party is not willing to outdo your revised bid, you get what you want at what you consider to be the fair market value.
6) IF the other party is willing to outbid you, you let them have it, because it is ABOVE what you were willing to pay for it
you do NOT do step #4 BEFORE step #3, you wait and do it when you are supposed to!!!
See how it works?
Overpayment or no overpayment… no Boras client will jump at a good offer without having waited out a still-active market. (And if the Braves are talking, and there’s even a POSSIBILITY of one of Boras’ “mystery teams” popping up in Heyman articles, that’s exactly what this market is.)
Shy of an ACTUAL Zito-sized deal, there IS no “reasonable-overpayment” magic number that Omar could give him to get the deal done.
get BENJAMON M. SHEETS…
alex is to ben sheets as nostradamus is to manny
At least Nostra can spell his mancrush’s name correctly.
Im starting to get REALLY scared now
Im seeing a possible rotation of
Johan
Big Pelf
Maine
Wolf
Redding
Dear god!!! I need a drink
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Calm down. Lowe has only had one official offer and it’s from the Mets. Yes it’s not to his liking but that’s the way business is done. It’s called negotiation. Or lie to the buyer and try to scr3w them in Boras’ case.
Lowe will most likely sign with the Mets so just keep your pants off people.
It makes more sense to sign Perez for 4-5 years at $14M a year than Lowe for 4 years at $16M a year. It doesn’t matter if Lowe’s a little better, a little more consistent. Lowe is still 7 or 8 years older and Perez has no serious injury history haunting his value. All things equal I’m not even sure Lowe’s worth more since Perez is a lefty and we need a lefty. Our starting rotation was not really the issue last year anyway in terms of Santana, Pelfrey and Perez. The real problems were:
(1) Maine’s injury
(2) insufficient innings from Pedro and no viable Plan B
If Maine’s healthy and we bring in a competent albeit mediocre starter to give us 180+ innings just in case the young guys aren’t ready, I have no real problem making Oliver Perez a Met from 2009 on for at least 4 years. And I’d sooner make it 5 for him than 4 for Lowe based on their ages.
you hit the nail on the head. Great points about Perez. Plus he stikes out a lot more batter then Lowe( yeah i know he walk more too). Something people are not talking about is how Perez was getting better as the year was ending. I think he has a lot more upside then the old Lowe
if we absolutely cant get lowe then i like the idea of ollie and wolf.
Anyone who thinks the Mets are strapped for cash should read this article at Forbes.com..
SNY is not in the RED! (someone said this above)
The Mets make the entire cost of player payroll just on ticket sales.
as of spring 08 this franchise is worth 824 mil
What article? Link?
Not sure if you can see my reply.. Its under awaiting moderation.. just google Mets Forbes
darth, you can post the link if you take out the beginning part. Just post the link again without it — for example if you were to post the link to this site, you’d just write — metsblog.com
Also, I am well aware of the Forbes numbers. But they do NOT include the finances of the regional sports networks. And they are from 2007.
Also I did google mets + forbes and the first listing is simply the Mets finances for 2007 which do not include SNY.
forbes.com/lists/2008/33/biz_baseball08_New-York-Mets_334564.html
Yea they don’t specifically say how much money SNY is bringing in. But you can get a pretty good picture that SNY is not hurting the franchise.
and if the tickets sales alone end up paying for the player payroll. and you add in the revenues from SNY, merchandise, parking, the money the Mets are getting from Citi..
darth, those numbers are from 2007 and since they don’t encompas-s the regional sports networks, there is no way to know for sure.
I would not be surprised if the first few years of SNY they ran at a deficit. It is not unusual at all for startup networks to do so, and I believe YES ran at a deficit at its startup.
So to say one way or the other is just guessing.
As for revenue from the new park, there is also no way to know for sure now what this year will bring. With the economic downturn overall spending at the stadium can be much less than projected even if ticket sales are strong.
At any rate, I know you don’t want to hear it but the Mets have a budget tied to the luxury tax threshold. That drives their spending.
you might become more intelligent with multiple judging by your prior posts. Lets see how that experiment goes.
Until someone else has bettered our offer i a meaningful way who are we bidding against? If Atlanta wants to go 4/$64M, so be it. I’d rather have Perez for 5/$70M to be completely honest. Lefties develop late and Perez has pitched some big games plus we need a lefty to go up against Philly and the Yanks. If Atlanta goes to $14M, 3 years, we can match that I suppose. If they guarantee a 4th year at $12M, that’s a bridge we can consider crossing. But much more? Let them have Lowe. As long as it’s not Philly :-)
I hope you’re not insinuating that Lowe hasn’t pitched big games.
IF the mets cant get Lowe and Ollie’s price goes up, 1 of 2 things will happen. We will sign Manny or trade for a sp. Maybe both…… RELAX.
You know, can these”reporters”get their stories straight.earlier today,its said Chipper
makes a pitch to Lowe to try and talk him into
signing with Atl.despite them not yet making
any offer and now Chippers thinking he miay get traded mid-season since Smoltz is gone
and Glavine may not be back.
Chipper Jones, today, in a talk with the Atlanta Journal Constitution:
“I don’t know how it’s going to end with me. This is my last year under contract with Atlanta. And this last 24 hours certainly hasn’t gone unnoticed by me. I haven’t been offered an extension. If we’re 15 games out in July or August, I doubt they’re just going to let me become a free agent and get nothing in return.””
…and he just made a pitch to Lowe? Something doesn’t make sense here. I SMELL A BLUFF.
you make a good point….i read both items, but didnt make the connection that you do….how is this guy recruiting ANYONE to come play there???
“Yo, Derek. Chipper here. Listen, you should definitely sign with the Braves. Atlanta is a top-notch organization….except for 20 year veterans who are considered icons in the area…then you get shafted and get no respect…I’m pretty disgusted by it actually…but otherwise, it’s great and you should definitely come play with us. It’ll be fun. Oh, but if we’re not in contention I think I’ll get traded. That’s alright though man, we’ll have fun for like, half the season. Come sign with us!”
This may be best as I am one of the few who is not high on Lowe. I prefer Ollie and then a capable #5 (Redding?). I see Lowe starting his decline as soon as he becomes a Met, eventually becoming a glorified Trachsel (yeah, I said it!) I expect Ollie to become at least a 15 game winner again.
AND STAY AWAY FROM WOLF!
starr,whether or not Lowe signs, its an insult
to him (and us) to in any way compare him to
Tracks. And Redding is a capable #5?
Capable of what?
Looking at his splits over the last 2 seasons you can speculate and say that he’s capable of pitching well for half a season and no more.
I actually think Redding would flourish in NY. Not be a star, but a strong five.
That was funny!!
For some reason people have very high expectations for the team’s #5 starter.
Quick, name the #5 starter of last year’s championship team….
The Tigers just traded for him.
Well, the AL’s champion, anyway.
I’m a bit more optimistic about Lowe, but how many times have we brought in a player with strong credentials only to see his downfall begin in Queens? Too many.
So are we better off acquiring players lacking credentials?
is your last name starr?
I WANT LOWE AS MUCH AS THE NEXT GUY, HOWEVER, I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT LOWE (BEING AN INNINGS EATER) IS NOT THE SECOND COMING OF DAVID CONE, THE ONLY THING CONE I MEAN LOWE HAS OVER OLLIE IS CONSISTANCY WHICH IS WHAT GENERATES THE INTEREST OF THE METS.
THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THE FRONT OFFICE DOES’NT KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS FOR THIS TEAM, THEY UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE TWO MAYBE THREE PLAYERS AWAY FROM SHEER DOMINATION OF THE NL EAST, THAT SAID, I’M CERTAIN THEY WILL DO WHAT’S NEEDED TO ASCERTAIN THAT POSITION.
Nice post. The thing that kills me is that we all know we’re only 2 or 3 players away from sheer domination. It makes it painful. I just want to scream to he ll with the budget! Let’s get Lowe, Manny, Sheets and get this thing done. But alas…there is a budget, and I’m not at the helm.
sign sheets!!!!
and manny!!!
<<<Just trying to get alex and nostra going
I really think that if Omar lets Lowe slip through our fingers, we have to consider dealing Fernando Martinez (among others) to the Blue Jays for Roy Halladay. If we offered F-Mart, Murphy, Niese, and say, Gee, I don’t think Toronto would turn us down. Thoughts?
I just don’t think that’s enough for Halladay. If it were, I’d say do it, Lowe or no Lowe.
did you watch hotstove on MLB network last night. They said they are going to hold onto Halladay.
Sign someone!
is matt wise still on the team? i know its out of left field (no pun intended) but was just curious
wise is a free agent so no
I don’t think so.
like i said, just curious, dont ask me why
i’m thinking that alex and nostradamus are not online at the moment
sad clown, nice chipper impersonation up there…It wouldnt let me reply directly to it for some reason
I’m too lazy to do the math at the moment, but if we signed Ollie, Manny, and Redding…wouldn’t our payroll still be lower, at the end of this season, than it was last season? Especially since we have Delgado and Wagner coming off of the payroll?
you’re right, thats a lot of math….at the end of the season, you might be correct, but, I’m not sure who is due raises and stuff….wright/reyes and pelf are all locked up cheap for a while still, correct?
Reyes makes $4 mil this year, $5.75 next.
Wright makes $5 mil this year, $7.5 next.
AFTER this season, yes.
Off the top of my head, Putz’s salary would go up about 5 million. Anything else couldn’t possibly be substantial. From a financial perspective, the biggest hurdle would be the current season, and that has to be offset somehow by all the extra coverage that Citifield /Mets would get.
No, as of now there is roughly $15 left in the payroll before it matches last year’s.
This is just enough to get one good starter.
I am not sure if you read my comment correctly. I asked if, at the end of THIS season, with Wags and Delgado coming off the payroll, would we be at last season’s payroll after adding those three players?
Wags and Delgado has to be 20 million, at least.
If you did the math, then thanks, I was too lazy.
Wagner is due $10.5 this year ($1 mil buyout at the end of the year). Delgado is due $12 mil.
So in short, yeah, AFTER this season we’d be fine…it’s this year that seems to be the budget hang up.
See, I feel like the Mets are being short-sided if they didn’t make a move of this caliber. The luxury tax threshold also went up by about 8 million, didn’t it?
With Ollie and Redding, you lock up the rotation for two to three years, and you have left field solidified for the same. You move Murphy to 1st base, and if F-Mart is ready, then you trade Church for someone else.
The fan base needs a playoff birth. We have had an incredibly rough past few seasons.
Do you guys remember when we brought in all the retreads all at once: Jeff D’Amico, Pedro Astacio, etc. At least Omar hasn’t gone that route.
This just in:
Dodgers Watch Kris Benson Throw
…and what was his wife wearing?
good question….they didnt mention that for some reason
She was wearing something?
now that was funny..
what store is ben sheets considered?
Yankees have decided that they want to keep Nick Swisher and would rather trade Xavier Nady according to MLB Trade Rumors.
This just in:
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oh snap come on the braves derek, really they will give ya watya want but they wont give ya a divison title
Breaking news report yankees sign lowe
5 years 65 mil
and manny for 6/150??
no joke reported on sny
where on sny?? i dont see anything…
WHAT!!!!!
Where is the link?
How could we possibly be compare to the Rays? That is absurd. The Rays are good NOW. Did you forget the horridness that gave them the ability to draft all those 1st round picks?
I honestly do not think the Mets would be anything like the Yankees if they signed Ollie, Manny, and Redding.
Our payroll would still be at least 50 million less. PLUS, it would drop down back to last season’s payroll, after Wagner and Delgado leave. IF we were like the Yankees, we would be offering Lowe about 60 million dollars.
sign manny!!!
sign sheets!!!!
trade for peavey!!!
trade for halladay!!!
How could we possibly be compare to the Rays? That is absurd. The Rays are good NOW. Did you forget the horridness that gave them the ability to draft all those 1st round picks?
I honestly do not think the Mets would be anything like the Yankees if they signed Ollie, Manny, and Redding.
Our payroll would still be at least 50 million less. PLUS, it would drop down back to last season’s payroll, after Wagner and Delgado leave. IF we were like the Yankees, we would be offering Lowe about 60 million dollars.
Really only 3 of their first round picks were contributors on their team last year (Upton, Longoria, Price) and Price did not come until later on.
I guess you have to count Baldelli too.
Another first round pick (Delmon Young) was turned into Matt Garza. But that would be like counting Church and Schneider for the Mets because they were obtained for Milledge.
I don’t think their number is unusually high — Arizona may have had more (Drew, Upton, Scherzer and Jackson off the top of my head) — but they certainly were important players.
Speaking of 1st round picks, the Phillies had an impressive run of drafting productive (or better major leaguers) even if they didn’t retain all of them (Drew, Eaton).
2002 Cole Hamels LHP San Diego, CA 17
2001 Gavin Floyd RHP Mt. St. Joseph HS, Baltim 4
2000 Chase Utley 2B Long Beach, CA 15
1999 Brett Myers RHP Jacksonville, FL 12
1998 Pat Burrell 1B U. of Miami (FL) 1
1997 *J.D. Drew OF Florida State U 2
1996 Adam Eaton RHP Snohomish, WA 11
Eaton’s a mess now but he’s still playing 12 years later, which most draft picks can’t claim. But the rest of those guys have sure had or are having nice careers.
What I struggle with is whether signing Lowe is a blessing or a curse. He’s old (whether he pitched out of the bullpen or not). He’s expensive. He’d be under contract until he is 40! But, he could be the missing link to a championship (my apologies to all the Manny lovers out there). So torn.
Its still too early to tell what will happen with the Lowe negotiations. If he ends up signing for $40M/3yrs then Omar will be seen as genius, so lets withhold judgment before we see the outcome.
I feel that his negotiations skills have been masterful so far. So lets see if continues it with Lowe.
Sign Lowe, Don’t sign Lowe
Our team has had back 2 back years of heart wrenching collapses.
Think about this do you really think Lowe going to ATL and not with NYM will be the reason we lose?
I sure as H3LL don’t. So he goes to ATL, maybe just maybe that’s what we need to win.
Maybe the right choice is signing Ollie & Sheets maybe not but I know this
Our success in 2009 will not be based on the signing of 1 pitcher.
Will Lowe contribute? I believe so. Can we win without him? I know so.
If your going to tell me Lowe in Atl is reason we lose in 09 then we never had a shot to begin with.
Maybe Lowe just does not want to be a Met otherwise why did he go and meet the owners of the Braves and not the Mets
Freddie blow the dust off your checkbook
Sign Lowe
NOW!!
i havent heard anything about how this alleged meeting between lowe and the braves went…..somethings fish here….it supposedly was taking place this morning….
there’s some stuff about it on ajc.com. if you are ever looking for other perspectives on a story you definitely have to go outside this blog. It’s a bit limited.
Is there an echo in here?
why did Lowe go to Atlanta and not NY ?
I’ve had this feeling he doesnt want to be here and went dont really want him. All I know is if we lose out and wind up with Ollie we better really think twice about not grabbing Manny. Love him or hate him he’ll produce at least until he hates the rest of the team which will probably take a season or so to happen. I pay a crap load for tickets and that ridiculous parking and its not going to get cheaper so why not spend spend spend!!!!
something wierd going on with where the comments show up, or is it just me?
No its not you its this wacky format
This is our first season, in our new stadium, after two collapses…
It hurts typing that.
Matt, you’ve been sounding awfully anxious lately. Relax, it’s only baseball. We’re going to overpay for someone be it Lowe, Perez, or someone, but with several teams needing starters and Sabathia and Burnett getting big money, just be glad we paid below market value for K-Rod.
Put the pressure back on Boras. Sign Sheets. Then continue to go after Lowe at the original price because we won’t be as desperate.
Sanatana
Sheets
Lowe/Perez
Pelfrey
Maine/Redding
If you have to sign Perez instead of Lowe (with new leverage so it would be a discount with Mets need greatly decreased) signing Redding gets you innings eaten and in the event Sheets goes down or Perez starts going only five per game.
I still don’t see how our offense isn’t being addressed. It has to.
While the Mets continue to play chicken with Boras and Lowe could they at least move on and sign a Starter for the 5th spot. They know it’s most likely one of Wolf, Redding or Garland. Just get it over with on this spot at least. If Lowe signs elsewhere it’s just going to drive the price up on all these guys anyway. I’m getting tired of team Boras antics go sign Sheets. Lowe can have fun in Atlanta while they rebuild.
This all changes with the “potential” signing of Redding. I wouldnt mind seeing Ollie back with the Mets in 2009. But I say if he wants thats much money, he should have to earn it with incentives and reaching specific goals. Maybe that will make him work harder. We know he has the heart, but he doesnt put it all out there every game.
Mets Hot Stove on SNY in 20 at 7. Santana’s due to be on. Should be a dirth of information.
i thik boras is playing games now with the mets…omar dont raise the price.. stay where u are..i dont think the braves are gunna go much higher…if they outbid us then forget him and sign ollie and wolf…this would be a fine rotation..
johan
pelf
ollie
maine
wolf
Same exact rotation as last year except wolf would be in pedros spot….dont foget we had a very solid rotation last year
This whole situation is laughable! In less than twenty-four hours time, we went from practically having Lowe to maybe losing him to our original arch enemy. Where is everyone getting their stories from? Ya know, I’m starting to care less if we get Lowe or not, because I’d like a guy who actually WANTS to be a Met, but at the same time I’m really starting to dislike Boras. Omar, please go sign Sheets and Wolf to make Boras and Natasha quite acting like they’ve got us by the short and curlies.
LA likes manny being manny. LA is acting like a NY team. Mets are acting like KC
I could care less if Lowe signed with the Braves as long as he doesn’t sign with the Phils. Get a good deal on Ollie and Redding then sign Manny.
It ’s time to stop crying “budget” and shopping at Walmart.
Go shopping in Bloomingdales once in awhile
i thought Lowe and/or Perez are Type A free agents.
How is that shopping at Wal-Mart?
Sign Manny, Lowe and Ollie then your shopping at Bloomy’s
Wolf, Garland are more Red Light specials at Walmart
Redding you can find at a Salvation army
It is intersting to read people comments on here. While I do want Lowe, it seems that since it is not our money that we want the Mets to be spend like wildfire like the Yankees. We are already spending at bloomy’s when we spend money on k-rod, got putz, still paying for wagner, pay increase on Wright and Reyes, 17 mill on Beltran.
We show over the years with the Yankees spending mad money and still didn’t make the World Series for few years. Is itn’t the money but how we determine and pick the talent for the team. Let us look at the Rays who went to World Series that is far less money than us. So don’t state that we need to spend in bloomy or like the yankees….
to be fair, the rays had to wait through 10 (count ‘em, 10) 91 or more loss seasons before finally cashing in on that home grown talent.
If the Met’s only had a Scott Kazmir in there system then we’d be getting somewhere.
Yes, that hurt to type even now.
I couldn’t do that.
THANK YOU Casey!
Signing a big pitcher and bat would not make us anything close to the Yankees.
Scott Kazmir is not great his arm is about to fall off
Scott Kazmir is not great his arm is about to fall off
True, but whenever I see the Rays in a post I think of Kaz and I’d have taken him the past 2 years. But your right I think the clocks about to strike midnight on his arm.
I never really cared that they traded him, I just wish they traded him for something good.
How are you giving Manny 65 mil for 3 years and paying him 13 mil the first year? You’re backloading the contract? I can’t imagine he’d be amenable to that.
And to be honest, I don’t think that this is all about budget. I really think that his price tag plus his baggage and the stunt he pulled to get out of Boston makde the Wilpons not want to go down that road. If Manny was a model citizen I think Omar would have convinced them. We know that Omar loves Manny.
regarding that “stunt”, i am certain there are 2 sides to that story. baggage or not, LA loves him. and manny is EXACTLY what the mets need RIGHT NOW to WIN NOW!