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On Wednesday, Scott Boras talked with the Mets about RHP Derek Lowe, LHP Oliver Perez and infielder Alex Cora.
Yesterday, Boras and Lowe met with Braves GM Frank Wren, Bobby Cox and other team officials in Atlanta, as was first reported by the Boston Globe – on the same day, John Smoltz signed with the Red Sox.
John Harper in the Daily News explains, “The Braves previously had no 
intention of bidding more than the Mets offer of three years, $36 million, but they believe public pressure over the Smoltz departure could force their hand,” according to team insiders.
However, last night, on SNY’s Mets Hot Stove Report, FoxSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal said he still believes the Mets are the front-runners to sign Lowe, despite the pitcher’s meeting with the Braves, adding:
“From what I understand, the Braves are not interested in going beyond the three-year, $36 million offer from the Mets… I still don’t see the Braves going where Scott Boras will want them to go.”
The Braves made an offer, though the amount is unknown, reports the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, who says the Mets actually never made an official offer, according to Boras.
Meanwhile, Harper adds, “Mets people have said privately they are prepared to add more dollars to their offer… but they have been firm in saying they won’t go beyond three years in length.”
In an online report from Rosenthal for FoxSports.com, he notes that, like the Mets, the Braves are unwilling to guarantee Lowe a four-year deal.
On Wednesday, I wrote:
“The Mets may eventually need to grant a fourth-year option, and may need to pay more per season than they initially offered, but not $15 million – and the Mets are open to this.”
…still, i believe the Mets can get this done by goosing up the annual salary, while providing a fourth-year option…it just seems like that is where this is going, whether it comes from the Mets or the Braves… i mean, you can only fight boras so much, it seems…
Rosenthal believes the Phillies, Angels and Brewers are not interested in Lowe – and, despite a report from the New York Post, the Washington Post reports the Nationals are not purusing Lowe as well.
Something else to consider…
In a report for Yahoo! Sports, Tim Brown says the Braves continue 
to pursue Japanese starting pitcher Kenshin Kawakami, who there were aggressively pursuing before Smoltz signed with Boston.
According to Brown, “Outbid by the Yankees for A.J. Burnett and, somehow, by the Red Sox for the iconic Smoltz (and the Dodgers for Rafael Furcal), the Braves conceivably could sign Lowe and Kawakami, leaving the Mets to sort through the likes of Tim Redding, Randy Wolf, Perez, Jon Garland and Pedro Martinez.”
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Commence the hand wringing!
It’s about time to put this one to bed. Lock up the deal Omar……3/42 with an option for a 4th
There u have it Omar, Derek said get it done, so u had better listen and listen good.
Is it done Omar? I mean, what’s taking so long. It’s not like this is the real world, and that you have to adhere to a budget, or to your the whims and fancies of your bosses. Just do it. I mean, stealing Johan from the Twins happened, like, over a year ago. It’s getting kind of old.
Wait a second…there was no Mets offer? But it is believed they will add more dollars to their offer? What the heck is going on here?
Additionally, according to an anonymous source, Derek Lowe does not actually exist.
This misinformation is expected. The only people who can talk about offers for sure are the GM’s and the agents/players. Everything that comes out of the reporters and bloggers is nothing but rumors and whispers which may or may not be true.
Believing these kind of reports is like trusting the weatherman – it’s really all up in the air until you actually start to feel the rain…
2 different writers made the 2 different statements about ‘there was no Mets offer’ and ‘it is believed they will add more dollars to their offer’. Those comments didn’t come from the same place.
That’s the way this entire off-season has gone. 1 person says 1 thing, somebody else says another.
Gotta love baseball this time of year.!!
Ben Sheets, John Garland AND Manny Ramirez… done..
Yippie, we agree. We agree.
Then consider the trade market for Delgado. Getting Morales and Figgins from the Angels would be a complete make over for the team and save us 7 million.
How do we wake the Wilpons up about Manny though? Any ideas?
uh.. how about.. we choke in crunch time the last 2 years?? no??
Yeah that has not been enough I guess. lol
how about, we can have the greatest hitter of this era in our new stadium and will provide a huge boost to ticket sales, and most likely at least playoffs revenue.. good?
Problem with the regular season idea is that for the 1st year or 2 we will sell out anyway.
I think Fred needs some hypnosis.
not if we’re choking out the gate..
Morales has hit very well in AAA but only .249/302/408 with Los Angeles/Anaheim. If he turns out to be a AAAA player and Murphy/Tatis moves from Lf to 1B, was there a real gain achieved by essentially trading one year of Delgado for multiple years of an extremely high priced Ramirez?
Umm because who replaces Delgado’s offense next year? Not to mention, do you trust Delgado’s offense this year?
We can worry about who replaces Delgado next year. Maybe Delgado earns the shot to be his own replacement. Maybe Murphy proves he hits well enough to play 1B every day. Maybe another LF’er (Jason Bay, for example) becomes available that won’t come with Manny’s baggage and price tag. Maybe Fmart (unexpected to me) comes up some time this season and steals the show in LF.
A lot of things can happen between now and next year.
And how much better would we be this year with Manny but not Delgado and Morales hitting like a girl at 1B?
If you want to sign Manny, that’s fine. Keep Delgado too.
Isn’t that the Mets problem right now? They think 1 year at a time? This offseason players are as cheap as they will be for years to come. Get holes filled now. If you can fill LF 2B and another spot by signing Manny and trading Delgado it just makes more sense.
I don’t thinking year to year is the Mets problem at all. The team is built around 4 players in their primes or before (Reyes, Wright, Beltran and Santana — and I guess you can add K-Rod to the group) and who are good enough to win a championship.
I don’t agree that free agents are bargains right now (ask CC, Sabathia, Ibanez, Lowe etc.). And even if they are, I don’t see how signing a horrible defensive player who is 36 y.o. to play LF is thinking for the future.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind signing Manny. But it’s because he will help them win this year and next. But I sure am not doing it because he will be fleet in LF for years 3 and 4 of his deal.
As a current resident in Atlanta, I can say that the time is now to sweep in and sign Lowe to a Mets contract. The people in this city are do deflated by Smoltz leaving (as they should be) that I do not want to give them even one ounce of hope.
Lowe cannot be allowed to sign with Atlanta. I pray that Omar matches or betters whatever offer Wren threw at Lowe. That’s not to say that Lowe is oustanding but he’s a great #2, groundball pitcher for the Mets and would fit great into our rotation.
I love watching the people here whine and shed tears over Smoltz going to Boston. Please don’t give them anything to look forward to!!!
That’s the spirit.
It’s going to come down to which team he would rather play for…unless the Mets up the ante
Agreed.
If Lowe wants to contend then he would sign with the Mets, but if he wants the money he will go to Atlanta.
Money? If Pettite doesn’t take the Yanks 10 million, what’s another 5 million for Lowe? I would not be shocked at all if they jump in at the 11th hour with a 4/56 offer.
Atlanta is just as likely to contend in 2009 as the Mets are. They underachieved spectacularly in 2008 and were riddled with injuries.
hey have chipper jones on offense.. then………. nothing else… and please don’t say kelly johnson, he only hits against the mets
I don’t think the Braves will contend too much but they certainly have more than “just Chipper Jones” on their team…Brian McCann, Yunel Escobar, Jeff Francoeur and yes…Kelly Johnson.
And their rotation of Jurrjens, Campillo and Vasquez isn’t bad either. They need more but it’s a good start.
They certainly have the tools in place and they’re still missing a few pieces. But to say that Chipper is all they have is very obtuse.
ok nick.. i fear the braves becoz no matter what they always play us tough, and that’s the coach, no matter who they get they be lucky to win 84 games.. lucky..
Adding Lowe and Tommy Hanson from within their system would complete a pretty good young rotation, though with no clear ace.
Funny what a lousy bull pen can do to a team.
With what pitching staff? Smoltz is gone, Glavine will probably retire, Hudson is out for most of the year. Jorge Campillo really doesn’t scare me nor does “big game” Vazquez. Jair Jurrens really the only guy thats scares me.
The offense will be better but their starting rotation really doesn’t scare me.
Lowe/Vazquez/Jurjens/Campillo/Hudson (eventually)
Jones/McCann/Escobar/Kelly Johnson/Jason Heyward
Good bullpen
These guys are very capable of competing. The Mets are better all things being equal, but if the Braves get Lowe and the Mets don’t, it will be too close for my comfort.
And I have not yet mentioned the loaded Marlins and the still-there Phillies.
Hey, if he wants to play for the Braves, then we all know he’s a complete Phuckwad, and we wouldn’t want him anyway, right?
Now there’s a comforting thought.
I prefer not to deal with Boras. I also do not like car salesmen. Maybe there’s a correlation?
Would it be collusion for owners not to deal with Scott Boras? He’s ruining the hotstove. Most deals and signings used to be done by Christmas, and we could focus on football until P&C report.
Don’t care anymore if we sign Lowe or Ollie. I’ll take the best non-Boras clients available and rest easy. At least I won’t have to visit the free clinic for penicillin
The owners using the economy as an excuse is what has drug out this offseason. Not Boras.
I think that a lot of people fail to realize that dire situation that our economy is in. Wake up, people! While I want Lowe as much as the next guy, calling the economic situation “an excuse” is wrong – revenue will undoubtedly fall this year – from ticket and hod dog sales to cap and jersey sales, everything’s on the decline.
People need to stop looking at the economy like it’s 2005 and start realizing that major changes are in the works…
Do you honestly think the Mets THIS year will make LESS money on ticket prices?
I just purchased tickets for Saturdays, as I usually do. And by the time I got up off my arse to do it, there was hardly any inventory left. Now I’m in the extreme nosebleeds and I had to take 5 rotten midweek games in order to do it.
There will be no problem selling this place out.
Ticket sales are a small percentage of team revenue. Consumer spending is down all around, and advertising will follow. The bulk of the income comes from merchandise and advertising sales.
Excuses are a big part of how this team is run, unfortunately.
I wonder if the ‘cat and mouse’ game that Omar is playing is part of his secret master plan: low ball Lowe. The end-game is designed to lower Perez’s dollars and expectation, which would ultimately would result in the Mets landing Perez, Redding, and Pedro…all at reduced dollars.
Keep in mind, all things being equal – Omar prefers Perez over Lowe.
I don’t like cat and mouse games. Make him the best offer he is likely to get, give him 2 hours to think about it, and immediately withdraw and say goodbye if he doesn’t like it.
Good thing you don’t run the Mets.
Kill the two hours thing and make him the best offer he is likely to get and be done with it.
I mentioned this yesterday. Still we have no idea who Omar wants. However, if you keep Lowe’s price low then you are keeping Perez’s price low. However, you would think Boras would see right through this.
If Omar could pull that off, he would be a god.
Hard to believe they are that upset about Smoltz leaving. The Braves did make him a fair offer, considering he is out for at elast 1/3 of the season, and quite possibly not pitch ever again.
But, if they get Sheets and garland, I can live with that. Even just sheets, since I don’t like Garland!
I think it is fair to overpay for loyalty. He’s a Brave and ashould have been allowed to retire a Brave. He’s made them enough money in the past, what’s a few million more?
Loyalty should come from both sides. I can make the same “few million” argument back at Smoltz…
That said, I’m a bit disappointed we won’t see him ever again, he was truly fun to watch. I remember 2 or 3 years ago I attended a game where he went against Glavine…that was a great pitcher’s duel….I believe Glavine won that game 1-0, but both pitched masterfully and were fun to watch…
With Boston signing John Smoltz, I expect to see a Smoltz Killer Shawn Green sighting on the Yanks.
Going with Alex’s post. Here is how to completely change the Mets.
Sign Sheets 2/20 and Garland 2/16 give both a 3rd year option worth more that can be vested.
Sign Manny 3/62. 12/25/25
Trade Delgado for Figgins and Morales.
Trade Church for players to be used to get Delmon Young.
:)
Reyes, Figgins, Wright, Manny, Beltran, Young, Morales/Murphy, Schnieder.
Now that’s a lineup. LOL.
delmon young?? really?? would minnesotta do that for church??
No I would think it would have to be a 3 way trade or have to include Murphy. They don’t even view him as one of the starting OF. Man they are dumb on offense. Anyway, they need a 3B and bullpen help. I mentioned yesterday Murphy and Kunz?
i can see that, but don’t you think they wouldn’t trade delmon since they just traded garza for him in search of offense?
The manager did not even mention him as a starting OF and they have been doing damage control sense. It is rumored that they just don’t like him. Maybe he’s not a fit in Minn.
bring him here, i rather have a thugh than a choke artist.. lol.. jk..
Would the Twins trade a 23 year old former number one overall pick who already has 1300 MLB at bats and has performed reasonably well considering his age for a player who lacks a position and a middle reliever?
Doesn’t sound promising. Especially after they gave up another first round pick with a similar description.
wanny, sometimes is character over how good you can be.. minnesotta runs under gardehire.. if he doesn’t want a player there believe me the organitazion will ship him out..
Oh good. So we’ll take their trash. That sounds like a great idea.
trash??? u just said young is young and have upside?? how is that trash?? i rather have him in left than tatis/murphy wouldn’t you?
I was responding to your ridiculous statement that Gardenhire would trade him for nothing because he doesn’t like his character.
If that’s the case, why do we want a guy like that?
first of all my statement is not ridicule, so don’t get offensive.. second of all, i’m just saying he’s a hot head, but not all players get along wit their manager, who knows maybe if he can come here manuel can straight him out like he did with delgado (based on turnaround).. u never know how a player will respond..
Wanny, you don’t think that some players respond better to managers than others? So why not take a chance? I am sure Manuel has a better chance of relating to him than the Twins.
And them getting Murphy, Kunz and another player is not getting “nothing” in return.
Of course some players respond better to some managers than others. I’ll just leave it at a disagreement that Murphy plus Kunz will even be remotely enough to get a player of Young’s age, experience and upside in a trade unless it was absolutely necessary.
My point to Alex was that if Young is such a bad dude that Minny would give him away then we don’t need him either.
I do that deal if at all possible. What is Delmon like 22 or 23? Would be worth it.
The mets are not touching their lineup outside of C and maybe 2b.
In 2010 you have 1b murphy/evans 3b wright ss reyes lf martinez cf beltran rf church
Don’t forget Nady is on the trade market, maybe for cheap.
Ollie at a reasonable (non-budget-strangling) deal is fine too. At this point, I don’t care anymore!
OK, how about another option? Omar trades for a SP.
ALl the talk is on the FA guys like they are the only pitchers in existence.
It was reported earlier that Omar might look to do a FA and make a trade. So he still might.
Instead of overpaying for a mediocrity like garland, maybe he signs Lowe or Ollie or sheets, and trades for a younger guy? Maybe like Snell?
Sign sheets, maybe pedro and Redding? and/or trade for a guy?
Who knows at this point, but if nothing else, Omar has shown that he can adapt to what the market has to offer.
And if it is offering crap, shop elsewhere.
if he trade for a SP stick, how about roy oswalt? omar is in love wit him.. as he should, the guy is a horse..
The Astro’s think they can compete. Otherwise we should be all over Oswalt, Lee and even Tejada to play 2B.
no tejada though.. i think he’s shot.. but lee or oswalt.. yes.. i call omar minaya “OMAR MYHERO” if he pulls that off.
The flaw in your theory is that Garland, like him or not, is right now a MUCH better pitcher than Snell and is not going to cost much more considering he will make about 3 million and is guaranteed 7 million the next 2 years. Plus you have to factor in how much the Pirates are going to want in a trade for him. It’s not like you are getting him for Evans and 2 A ball players.
just a name to start discussion! The idea though, I hope, would be to get a bette quality pitcher.
Sure, it makes more sense to sign a FA that doesn’t cost a pick if the salary is the same as the guy you have to trade players for, as-suming, of course, they are of equal talent.
Guess my real point is, I want a better pitcher than Garland.
Garland would be one of the top 3 #5’s in the NL for sure. The guy had more QS than Perez and less NVSS and RSS.
garland if he goes back to 2 years ago can end up being our #2.. who knows..
Garland stinks and has gotten worse over the last three years.
I like the way you have made your new stats part of the lexicon.
Pecota, QA, RSS, etc…
OK, Garland for 3/28 I can live with. I guess Blanton did OK in the NL last year, so why not.
Sheets, Garland and Redding? Get all three for some coverage.
thank you stick.. your yet another guy in the sheets bandwagon.. garland might do good in the NL based on hitters not being too familiar with him.. who knows.. if traschel won 15 games for us garland can do the same..
Of Boras’ big three free agents, will one of them end up a loser because he worked to slow?
Can any one tell me why Scott Boras felt the need to mention that the Mets never made an official offer? It feels like Boras has motive for doing this because we all know the Mets did make an offer despite it being official or not.
My guess would be that it by denying it lend less credibility to the offer that they found way lower than they wanted. I just don’t feel my guess is right though.
Chone Figgins? Kendry Morales?? Kendry Morales is a 26 yr-old version of Daniel Murphy. Chone Figgins is better than Castillo, but still a no-hit infielder. Chone Figgins, Sean Rodriguez, and Will Smith for Delgado.
Umm, why would we want Figgins and Sean Rodriquez? If you want to skip Figgins and get Rodriquez, Morales and a reliever?
wouldn’t the angels just be better off signing Dunn fo 1-2 years instead?
Could be, but no one likes Dunn for some reason. Not to mention but it’s hard to believe that Delgado is much better defensively.
In limited games at 1B in his career (97), Dunn’s fielding stats are horrendous. Meanwhile, Delgado’s continue to be average to above average.
Chone Figgins would be a temporary solution at 2nd, whereas Sean Rodriguez would be an upside move.
Also, if the Mets trade Delgado and put Murphy at first, they will need Dunn/Bradley/Manny.
that’s the plan, trade delgado to save up money to spend it on manny.. we can do like TRS said, 15, 25 & 25..with wagner coming off the book next year we’ll be set..
That was the idea. Sign Manny and trade Delgado to solve the problem at 2B. Figgins is one year removed from having a .330 .380 season with 40SB and is priced low. Morales in my opinion just needs playing time. He will be their 1B this season if they don’t get one through trade. Between Morales and Murphy we SHOULD be able to have a long term 1B.
and not only that, but i think our bench will be a huge factor too.. having tatis, murphy and morales to switch back and forth between LF and 2B & 1B we’ll be set .
I like your idea with Figgins at 2b but these are the Mets and they are not going to pay Castillo to sit on the bench and they are definetly not going to cut Castillo.
And if Morales hits .249/302/408 like he has for Anaheim then you’ve essentially traded one year of Delgado for 3-4 very expensive years of Manny.
I don’t think Figgins is much of a defensive player at 2B.
Neither is Castillo.
Between Murphy and Morales 1B would work out. Manny is much more to the offense than Delgado. Not to mention, who do you think will replace Delgado next year? Ummm, Delgado?
wanny,
i rather go with whatever we get for delgado becoz i’m sure they will get relative young guys.. but if only we get manny.. if we don’t we’d be in serious problem..
When Castillo is healthy (and he might be healthy this year) he’s among the best defensive 2B in the league.
I’m not sure why you’re worried about replacing Delgado next season when you’re trying to win a world series this year.
If you want to sign Manny, that’s fine. Why not have them both?
I don’t see how the Mets are significantly stronger with Manny but not Delgado and with Morales hitting .249 .302 .408 at 1B.
Anaheim never likes to trade young players. If they do, buyer beware.
uh.. wanny.. if healthy.. IF.. castillo got toughness becoz he’s great at making double plays, but he’s lost a lot of range over the years.. a lot..
WE can’t afford both. Manny give much more security in the offense than Delgado. Delgado is just as likely to regress as he is to hit like last season. Manny this year instead of Delgado gives us a better chance and Manny next year instead of Delgado gives us a better chance.
And I guess a kid that has had no regular playing time in the bigs is doomed to hit whatever his line is? The kid did just fine in 2007 but was still not given the opprotunity. I am not saying it’s a lock but IF we could get 2 young players that can fill longterm positions for 1 year of Delgado…..
Why can’t he be healthy if he’s lost weight and kept in shape? He was fine in 2007. You never heard of physical therapy, medicines or training?
Castillo in 2008:
FP – .983 League: -.982
RFg – 4.27 League – 4.04
RF – 4.52 League – 4.83
Figgins at 2B for his career (111 games) because he hardly played in 2008:
FP – .975 League -.983
RFg – 3.46 League – 4.44
RF – 4.43 League – 4.96
Castillo, despite his health and loss of range was still an average defensive 2B in 2008. Figgins is a below average 2B with very little experience there.
thereal – i don’t have a problem with the premise of signing manny and trading delgado for two younger players. But I don’t see these two young players helping the Mets win this year.
I dont know who decided we can’t afford both of them. I think the decision was that the Wilpons don’t like Manny’s baggage.
It’s clear we can’t afford Manny and 2 SP Wanny. But if you free up 12 million you can.
That’s not clear to me. If they’re going to go with Redding and Niese in the 5 spot, that costs almost nothing. So signing Lowe and Manny would be the only real expenses.
Anyway, I have not seen any of the various and admittedly unreliable reports suggest that Wilpon’s concern with Manny has to do with money.
I believe Bradley signed with the Cubs.
he did. 3/30. And good luck to them, they will need it.
Matt – Do you ever get any sleep?
How about 40 mil 3 years for lowe with 14mil option with a 2 mil buy out on fourth year, we pick up wolf as 5th starter and use niese as back up.
Its amazing how many free agents are out there.
You can make a decent team out of all the free agents.
I feel like were at a discount store and should stock up.
Good point. As always, go with what the market gives you, and stock up when the values are there.
thats why there is ZERO reason the Mets shouldnt be going after both Lowe and Ollie. If you can sign a 27 year old lefty that you know can pitch in NY at a discount for 3-4 years, you have to be crazy not to.
Lowe and ollie might be to expensive and you have to work with boras for both. how about lowe and wolf might save some money and go after a Lf, 2b or catcher at least 1 of them
the issue is not whether he can pitch in NY, it’s whether he can pitch very well in NY to justify a long term contract of fairly significant dollar size. ollie (whom i really do like) walked 105 batters last year!
i agree with you, but my point is that if this was last offseason he would have gotten like 5 years/75 million from someone and I wouldnt have touched him. But now he can probably be had for 3/36, can you honestly say that over the next 3 years he wont be worth 12 million a year compared to players who have gotten and will get similar contracts?
I am also from the camp that thinks he will get better. That stretch he went on last year was completely dominant. The thing with him is he can only be beaten if he walks people, he hardly ever gets knocked around.
If some team signs him for 3/36 or something like that and he ever can better his control, it will be a steal
Why can you only fight Boras so much – what is he going to do, have Lowe sit out a year?
IMHO, it would be foolish to give a 4 year deal (even a vesting deal to a pitcher who will be 36 years old at the start of the season). Did we not learn anything from the final year of the contracts of Pedro Martinez, Billy Wagner, Tom Glavine, and “El Duque”. The injury risk or the precipitous decline likelihood is far too great. have we not learned anything?
Lowe has significantly less wear and tear on his arm. He’s actually only thrown three hundred more innings in his career than Garland, who is 29 years old.
There’s is no statistical evidence of Lowe declining. In fact, he’s gotten better.
Derek Lowe has 2722 IP on his arm 1940 in 12 major league seasons and 782 in 7 minor league seasons. Derek Lowe was a late bloomer as far as pitchers go. Jon Garland has 2099 IP on his arm.
Moreover, by your logic, Derek Lowe will continue to get better until and will win a Cy Young at age 95 before he dies. Derek Lowe peaked in 2002 at age 29 and has been a very consistent pitcher at a high-level ever since. Best case scenario, you get what Moyer gave the Mariners between ages 36 and 40, which is great, but not $14 million for 4 years great. Likely scenario, you get Glavine. Worse case scenario, you get Danny Darwin one good year, one average replacement player year, and two years of what did we do to deserve this. You will be talking about how the Castillo deal was a bargain.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying there is no evidence suggesting Lowe that Lowe has regressed as a result of his age. Meanwhile, Garland has shown signs of regression.
Lowe’s 147 strikeouts the last two seasons were the best of his career. His walk rates are down and his batting averages against have been steady (with a nice dip, in fact, this season). He consistently pitches over 200 innings.
Garland’s innings have declined each of the last three years, his strikeout rates have declined and his batting averages against have been brutal while his K:BB are awful.
I’m not suggesting Lowe will become Roger Clemens. I’m suggesting that at least for the next couple of years it is reasonable to expect the same production as in the last four.
Who is saying Garland is better than Lowe? Garland would be a great #4/5 starter for us however.
Just comparing him to one of the alternatives. If we don’t sign Lowe, Garland is one of the alternatives.
That said, I wouldn’t even want him in the 5 slot.
Wanny, I am done trying to reason with you. You have to be one of the most one sided posters on this blog. You provide all kinds of value but everything is so cut and dry.
Garland on this staff last year as a #5 wins us the division. Name 5 #5 SP better than him.
I’m sorry if you think I am unreasonable in not wanting to pay a below average pitcher more than $8 million a year to strike out 90 batters and have hitters hit .300 against him. Jon Niese can do that.
Name 5 fifth starters who will make more money than Garland and for more years.
If Garland was going to come for Tim Redding’s money and for one season, then sure I’d take him and let him through close to 200 mediocre innings. But I don’t think that’s how it’s going to work.
Agreed 100%.
Further, as I have been pointing out for days, Lowe has a deceptive ERA due to pitching in Dodgers stadium which is one of the most pitcher friendly park in the majors, only exceeded by Petco last year.
He comes to the NL east and I guarantee that his ERA jumps up significantly this season, despite the fact some are now predicting Citi field to be a good pitchers park.
I still think the next Lowe news is the announcement that the Yankees just signed him for 4/42, all guaranteed.
I would be happy with sheets + now.
Then have Omar make a few wheeling and dealing trades to make over more of the team.
I think his comments about the lineup being set is just a smokescreen. As soon as he is done with the FA pitching, he is going to steamroll through the trade market.
Or, maybe not!
Sheets is clearly to high of a risk. I would love to have a healthy Sheets behind Johan.
Omar and every other GM clearty know more about his health then we do. If healthy he’d prob be a yankee right now with a boatload of money.
Forget Sheets and hate to say it but I guess we won;t be getting the best hitter of our generation, Manny.
Unless after the rotation is addressed we come in strong. I know thats what were hoping.
Yanks are shopping Nady, I know its difficult to conduct trades w the cross town rivals, but if we r def out of it for Manny I would like to have Nady. He;s the righty version of Church.
Two strong role players, lets not forget the power of a role player.
No option better then Manny, but if not him then who?
My biggest concern is at First Base. What will we get from Delgado, will it be the rally killing first half guy or the lights out RED HOT second half guy? I am also concerned about Second Base, I don’t think that slappy can handle it all season. A catcher that hit better than 225 would be nice and to round it out a good hitting LF. I am very happy with th epen and the rotation will take care of itself. With a good pen and two closers, it takes the pressure off the offense and relaxes the starting pitchers. The biggest thing is putting the pressure on the other team to score early and take the lead before the 7th ining. Last season they knew that once the starter was out of the game they could score off our pen. I think that 2009 in our new park will be out year. LETS GO METS !!!!
I think we’re gonna see good things from Delgado this season, remember its a contract season for him.
The Mets just need another solid bat to protect him.
Got to love this. The universe is saying the Mets need to up theird offer of 3/$36m, but according to the player’s agent there is no offer.
Not a single one of these so-called reporters seems to have a handle on this.
Pathetic.
You know all this talk is driving me crazy. I want some freakin’ baseball already!
Can we make an offer to Ben Sheets? and get him for 2/21 or something like that with a option for a 3rd year… then we can sign Perez when the Lowe deal falls through, and we will have a better pitcher in sheets then Lowe, and a better picture in Perez then Lowe (imo), from an age point of view and that he showed more consistency last year, Lowe is 36 and wants a 4 year deal, i’m good, i’d rather give a 4 year deal to Ollie at age 26 or 28 or whatever he is… Lowe is over hyped and will be over paid. just sign Sheets….
GODLYLIK:
yet another guy.. who love sheets.. i got a list already.. i hope we do get him.. he can be a beast for us.. if healthy he can win between 14-20 games for us.. (barring bullpen is-sues)
I think Sheet and maybe Perez or Wolf would be good fit for the Mets. When Sheet is pitching, he is a number one starter. If he does need a couple of weeks off the Mets will servive, plus they have the rookies. Think about all the pitchers who went down the last two years and the Mets miss the playoff by one game. Which could be blame on the old bulpen.
Lowe, Vazquez, Juurjens, Glavine, Kawakami would be much better than what the Mets have.
Let’s not forget that outside of Santana, not one guy in the rotation has pitched well for a full season.
True but don’t you think Omar would add SOME ONE?
Example
Johan, Pelfery, Maine, Perez, Pedro is better than the Braves rotation and just about worst case senerio for the Mets.
cactus… ARE YOUY SERIOUS??
SUPERMAN> lowe
Maine>vasquez
pelfrey=jurjeans
glavind is shot, and kawakami os not there yet.. is like me saying we got sheets..
and how ca nyou say that outside of santan not one guy has pitched well??
maine 15 wins 2 years ago and playoffs tested, pelfrey and jurjeans had almost the same numbers last year.. that statement made no sense!!
Let’s lay off Maine’s jock for a moment. He needs to be healthy and he also needs to pitch into the seventh inning more frequently if you expect him to be a 15 game winner again.
Ollie was a 15 game winner that same year, no? And then he followed it up with a brilliant 105 walk performance the next year.
I like Maine but I would like to see consistency from him too.
wanny agree, but to say glavine is better than anybody on the mets is crazy, jurjeans has only 1 season, vasquez is a choke artist and lowe is JUST NOT THAT GOOD!!.. the braves are going nowhere next year no matter who they sign..
Glavine is definitely not an upgrade on any of the Mets three current starters.
Jurrgens may have to rate slighly ahead of Pelfrey right now but probably does not have the same ceiling.
Lowe is plenty good. Not an ace but definitely a decent #2 or great #3.
so that leaves us ahead based on the fact we have SUPERMAN and they don’t have a true ace till maybe august (hudson)
It would take an awful lot of Hudson’s to equal one Santana!
Tommy Hanson will be probably be in Atlanta’s rotation at some point this season.
AND??
He is suppose to be better than anyone in their team according to XM radio
And he may be the best pitching prospect in the league right now.
If the scouts and BA pundits are right about him, he’ll develop into their ace.
wasn’t homer bailey the same thing?? how that worked out so far for the reds?? with this guy u just don’t know how they will pan out the first year..
You’re right. But sometimes so too are the projections. And every now and again there’s a rookie pitcher who lives up to his billing (Lincecum being the most recent).
uh.. to be honest, cain was projected san fran best pitcher.. agree a rookie might surpirsed (joba, lincecum, jurjeans) but also can dis-sapoint at first (Homer baily, pelfrey)
I’m not disputing that. All I;’m saying is that if the experts are right about Hanson, as they were about Lincecum, then Atlanta’s staff COULD be okay.
Uh, no.
I would take Santana, Ollie, Pelfrey, Maine and Wolf over that Braves rotation any day. It makes zero sense to as-sume the Mets won’t upgrade their rotation if Lowe goes elsewhere.
Kawakami could end up to be more Kei Igawa than Matsuzaka. And besides he’s 33. Glavine has already fallen off the cliff and he’s coming back from surgery. Vazquez is good but a small game pitcher. And watch Lowe’s ERA go up at Turner Field. That proposed Braves rotation does not scare anyone.
God . Please give us MANNY!!
lol.. man.. you want god to give us manny, or to let us sign him??
I am not sure if anyone reported or read this from Heymans blog, he did mention Garcia. I would take a chance of him as a fifth starter. What do you guys think…
here’s the thing, if we happen to sign a guy like garcia, sheets, wolff or (sigh) pedro, we better have sign another pitcher with no injury history ala lowe, perez or garland.. we don’t wanna enter the season with 2 injury prone sp.. with niese in the rear mirror we can afford 1 not 2.. unless u wanna see figueroa and co pitching every 5th day..
if manny is such a “bad” citizen, then why does LA and their limited funds want him back?
mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090108&content_id=3737271&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp
nostra:
LA wants him becoz he brings ppl to the stand, LA doesn’t care as much about baseball, he is a ticket getter for them and they know the fans will literally pay for his salary
Omar is going to blow this Lowe signing
Shocker!!
bro, losing lowe would not be a show stopper. ollie-wolfie-garland-redding would do nicely.
BUT losing manny WOULD be a “win now” show stopper fer shizzle
While i agree with your first point about Lowe.
Manny isn’t coming. I’m not going to miss him. He’s a great player who had a great career in Boston/Cleveland/LA and will end either in LA or on a different team that isn’t located in NYC area.
mark, ur my boy, i kinda agree and disagree wit u.. if we happen to get stuck wit a redding and a pedro, i see manny here.. but if we get 2 big time pitchers (sheets/lowe/perez) i see us maybe getting dunn.. or somebody like that!!!!
I agree but to take it a step further
Lets say that Lowe and Perez are A’s
Garland, Wolf, and Sheets (because of injury) are B’s
Redding, Pedro, Garcia are C’s
Two C’s = Manny
1 A 1 C= Dunn/Abreu
1 A 1 B = Wiggy
2 A’s= equal a dream rotation and no offense.
yeah,i can see the same thing.. but i see us going 1A & 1B with a left fielder.. i just hoep to GOD is not ABREU!!
Alex yes. If the Mets completely miss the Boat on both Ollie or Lowe and your get stuck with Wolf(YUCK!!!) and Redding, then i could see the mets reaching out to manny. I still don’t see it happening because i really think the Wilpons said “Don’t go after him”.
Anyways,
Lowe for 12-13 mil, is what I have said all along is what he is worth in this market with his background and ability. He’s a legitmate #3 starter, and a borderline #2.
I would be 100% content and happy heading into the season with the 2 open spots being Ollie and Garland. Lowe and Redding. Lowe and Ollie… The one dude i want no piece of is Wolf.
Sheets intrigues me. You have to do a ton of due diligence to make sure his shoulder is sound, and will hold up the life of the contract. Maybe make it hugely incentive based, so like 5 mil base salary and an additional 250k for every start every year after 10. So if you give him 2 years 10 mil base and he makes 30 starts both seasons he makes the contract worth an additional 10 mil, and throw some other markers like 1 mil for 200 innings and stuff like that.
The one guy i’m kind of upset about missing the boat on is Baldelli. I really think his attitude, grit and skill sets would have fit what the mets needed in the Outfield perfectly for a year or 2… More if he proves his health.
Well said, Mark. Though I might also add Garland to the “no part of” list too.
You being a whiny overreacting idiot??
Shocker!!
lol, wow sylar, give the man a break, he obviously wants lowe and is afraid we might lose him.. that’s all.. no need for insults..
Hey Matthew,
Who do your sources agree with on the offer? Boras (no offer) or other reports (12 and 36)?
semantics. Remember the Furcal mess (what qualifies as a “deal”?
There was probably terms proposed, but maybe not on the “official” offer worksheet or something.
Anyway, Boras likes to work through the media (Heyman), so having the 3/36 splashed out on the ‘net, without a catagoricial denial by Omar, is an “offer”
Redding at $3.5 million -considering Cabrerra got 2.6, this is more than fair
Wiggy at $5 million. Blake got close to 6, so this seems fair
IRod 5 million – he’s better than anything else we have
Bartolo Colon – 5.5 million.
Santana
Pelfrey
Colon
Maine
Redding
Reyes SS
Church RF
Wright 3B
Beltran CF
Delgado 1B
Wiggy 2B/LF
Murphy LF/2B
IRod/Schneider
Bench: C, Tatis, Castillo, Pagan, Reed,
I love Harper’s line about “public pressure”.
from who?, those great,die-hard bravo fans
who can’t fill a new stadium for playoff games?
Wow, that’s a terrible rotation. You better be getting Manny if you go with those two.
Also, you would have to trade Schnieder or Castro for a utility IF I guess.
if the mets give bartolo colon 5.5 million dollars i might jump off a bridge
LOL, we would most likely land on each other.
LMAO!!
And that horrible rotation won’t be getting much help defensively with Wigginton and Murphy at 2B.
They better get Manny and Ryne Sandberg.
Remember who’s in our division. Utley, Howard, Ibanez. Need I say more. We need 2 lefties in the rotation and 1 more lefty in the pen. I am all for Lowe with a cheap lefty at the 5 spot. Odalis Perez or a guy like that? For the pen Ohman, Reyes, Takahashi? 1 more lefty speciaist and we’re set.
we don’t need to have 3 lefties in the Rotation and another Lefty arm in the Pen, simply because we play the Phillies 19 times, or 11% of the season. We could lose all of those games and still have 100 wins.
You can’t gear your team to beat one specific team, just because they are in your division. We still need to play 162 games, 143 of which aren’t against the philles. So realistically what use would those guys have then.
You get the best available guys at the prices your willing to spend… Like Lowe for 12-13, but not 14+.
Exactly, I seriously think I may go insane if anyone else uses the excuse of who to sign just because of what hand they throw with. Get me the best players.
sorry i meant 2 lefties. While i would like it (Johan and Ollie) it’s not 100% necessary.
Not true, you just need the best pitchers. You don’t really look at splits for starters. You are not taking them out in the 3rd inning for matchup reasons. Also, if you have the option of getting RHRP that holds RH and LH to around .225 BA or a LOOGY that holds only LH to .200 and RH to .350 why choose the LOOGY?
Because we have to play Utley (out half the season) Howard rollins (Switch hitter) and Ibanez 19 times a year…. DUH
And then what about the Marlins who we play 19 times a year that feasts on LH pitching?
Some Sheets thoughts (just for you, Alex):
Even when he was injury prone (’05-’07), he still averaged 20+ starts (think his innings were 140, 100, 150 in those years).
So as-suming he does not have a season ending problem already, then the worry about him is he won’t make a full year.
Well, with his talent, if he was 100% healthy (and expected to make 30 starts) he would likelyget 15/mill for a year.
So if they can somehow snag him for 10 mill guaranteed (plus another 5 of incentives, say for starts 24+), then they are getting him at fair market value.
I would rather sign Sheets and get 22 starts for the 10m, and have Neise pitch the other 10 starts, then just have Garland pitch all 32 (or Neise or Redding).
Even better, sign Redding for ~3mill for a long relief/spot start roll.
Then you could have sheets/redding share the spot for the same money that Lowe or Ollie would get.
Why not sign Sheets, Garland and Redding? That should not cost you more than 20 million.
STICK:
i love me some sheets, i hope to get him, but i am resign that the mets will need to miss out on ollie (we seem to be the only team interested in him) and lowe to get him.. and i just dont see it happening.. but if we do get him.. easily a 15+ game winner
OH, I forgot all about the Odalis Perez talk from a few weeks back. Probably just as good of a cheap option as Redding.
Also, saw a note on MLBTR that the mets were one of the guys talking to/about/interested in Denis Reyes. Thought he fell entirely off the radar screen.
Pretty sure Colon is no longer available.
And the problem w/the logic on signing
sheets is that you don’t know WHICH 20starts
you might get from him.Look at last yr when
the brewers made the playoffs and he was shot. This would be shades of ‘06 again for
us. Redding? c’mon this guy is barely a #5
on a bad team.Plus w/this operation he just
had on a joint in his foot, a good chance we
could be looking at Duque again,yet even if
healthy he’s more duquecito then duque.
Wait!, My Bad!, wrong Colon.
That’s not 100% true. If that does happen, you still have Johan, Pelfrey, Maine ahead of Redding, which would be your rotation in the playoffs, and even Garland before Redding. The 5th starter never makes a “Start” in the playoffs. Did Kyle Kendrick or J.A. Happ even pitch for the philles in the playoffs?
It was Hamels, Myers, Blanton, Moyer!
To quote Mora “Play-Offs!?, Play-Offs!?,
Play-offs?,play-offs?,play-off?”
And more proof the Wilpons/Omar don’t
read this(or any Met blog) and/or just don’t
care, While the likes of Lowe,Ollie,Abreu&
Dunn etc are all still out there just over a
month before Pitchers and Catchers report:
We(The Fans)continue to argue over oft-injured has-beens or never-weres.
Personally, I have a tough time putting Redding in the same sentence as Jon Garland.
If Omar wants to go cheap for the 5 spot in order to spend the other money on offense, then so be it.
But Garland is, and has been, the far superior pitcher over his career. And he has been a workhorse, throwing over 190 innings over the last 7 seasons. Plus, he pitched well in the post season for the Sox when they won the title.
Chris,
I’m 100% with you. Personally I tend to like garland as a rotational Piece. What i have been arguing on here has been that I’d rather see Ollie and Garland then Lowe and Redding. This was all based on Lowe getting 15 million of coarse and Ollie at about 12.
With Lowe coming in at 12-13 i like it. But anything more and i don’t think he is worth it.
Garland is consistent, and durable. But many on this board don’t like him. Because we need a rotation of either all #1’sand #2’s. Or a bunch of younger guys. No need to have 2 innings work horses in there with the Best pitcher in baseball, a guy coming off an injury plagued season. A 25 year old who started the year 0-9 before starting to look like he came into his own. Nahhhhhhh we don’t need someone who will go out every 5th day, throw 6 innings. Have a season with a 4.2 ERA. Nope we need Wolf to make 20 starts as a lefty, we need Redding, we need Colon, We need you name someone else.
I have said when it comes down to it. You put garland the last 4 years in the NL in the NL West, and his statistics would look 100% different then pitching for the White Sox and Angels in the AL.
But nobody agrees with me so i guess i’m Wrong.
I’m sure Omar talked parameters with Boras and told him what the Mets were prepared to offer. For all intensive purposes in this situation, it’s the same as an official offer. Boras is just playing games in order to trump up his client’s position.
I mean it’s stupid for Omar to meet with an agent and not discuss parameters.
Boras is still holding out for more … and I disagree with the notion that you can only fight Boras so much. I say fight him, Omar, and don’t give in to that sob.
Colletti is also not budging on Manny. Good for him.
mets shoud trade beltran to yanks for swisher and hughes. then trade delgado to angels for some young pitching. slide murph over to first and with all the money you just saved sign manny. then pick who you want with lowe or oli. i would like to get oli but imagine how lowe would be able to mentor hughes and pelfrey. so santana lowe pelf maine and hughes. then reyes castillo wright manny church swisher murph and schnieder. im just bsing here but the team needs to get rid of beltran and delgado and get some fire and balls in here. there are phenomenal players but we need a spark to light us up.
I usually only get through like 5 comments before I start getting a headache from all the idiotic comments, so today I decided to start from the bottom and this is the first one I read and I want to vomit. This is one of the stupidiest (and there have been many contenders over the years) comments that I ahve ever read. Yeah, go and trade one of the top 3 CF in all of baseball for a guy who hit in the low .200 last year and another kid who, as of right now, has been overated. Will Hughes eventually reach some happy medium between his potential and actual production, yes I believe he will. Still, that is no reason to trade away a player like Beltran, who, even if you don’t particularly like his personality, is a good guy and an exceptional players. Enough with this, “We need guys with fire” BS, cause all it really does is prove your lack of knowledge re: baseball. Are those guys important, yes, but they are for the most part complimentary players. Ugggghhhhhhhhh. I used to think that Met fans were knowledgable then I started reading this blog on a regular basis.
Plus, do you really think the Mets and Yankees would ever do a deal of this magnitude????????????????????????????????????? I mean, the Yankees probably would cause it would be a steal for them, but really, are you serious??????????????????????????????
okay first of all i said i was bsing because i know it would never happen. first of all you are dumb, nick swisher is a very good player and he had an off year offensively last year, it happens. phil hughes has the potential to be an ace. it takes a surplus of good young sp to win a world series mixed with a veteran or 2. dont you think if you signed lowe and then he could mentor a guy like hughes that would do the kid wonders. he never really got a chance with the yankees and he was throwing a no hitter until he got hurt, which shows how nasty his stuff truly is. i think that if the mets ever want to be truly changed they need to change some the faces in the clubhouse. and having fire and drive is extremley important, it is a big reason why the phillies won the world series when in reality there team wasnt that great at all and yes i know many players overachieved. also, by saving the 19 mil a year bc his contract is backloaded you could bring in a manny ramirez who i would take anyday over beltran. so basically it was a swap of swisher and hughes and manny for beltran. i said i was just throwing it out there and said i was bsing so theres no need to be nasty. you could also say nady and hughes which ever you prefer. i would like to see the mets going with their kids instead of trying to be like the yankees and buying a world series, because it clearly does not work. we have some many rent a players on our team, unlike the phillies, which is why they have won and we havent. guys like victorino are what makes the difference on a contending team and a pretending team. i understand where you are coming from and i was talking out of my you know what, but i am frustrated by how the mets think that signig rent a players are going to win us a series.
Jromer01, you are right, and I apologize if I was a bit harsh. It’s just that I get very frustrated with all of the knee jerk reactions that take place on this blog (see comment section of latest post). I know it’s part of the territory, but it doesn’t necessarily need to be. Anyway, you mentioned signing Lowe – and I think the Mets will, but this has nothing to do with any need to trade anyone. Also, I think that you are overating the whole “mentoring” thing. For all you or I know, Lowe could be a giant a hole. Lastly, you talk about “fire and drive” and then in the same breath you mention Manny. Look manny is one of the best hitters of his generation, or any generation for that matter, and I wouldn’t be against the Mets signing him to a 2 year deal, but don’t act like he is going to change the culture of the clubhouse for the better. I mean, all u need to do is look at what went on in Boston for the better part of the last decade. Yes, he is great, and yes he has won, but you can’t argue that the mets need to change the culture of the team on one hand and then argue that they should sign Man Ram on the other. It’s one or the other because the first time he doesn’t run out a ground ball or loafes after a ball hit in the gap, everyone is going to go nuts about it. I can hear it now, “he’s a dog”, “omar only sign latinos”, etc, etc…Anyway, like I said, sorry if I was a jerk earlier.
I am getting so sick of Lowe. Sign Ollie and Redding and we will be golden. Lowe is old and has really only had one outstanding season.
udontmesswithjohan,
i accept your apology. i disagree with you when you say manny wont change the clubhouse culture. he would and it would be for the better. manny would make us winners and when your a winner the clubhouse culture will be good. can you imagine how good david wright will be with manny ramirez behind him! just look at what manny did for big papi. manny ramirez is the BEST hitter in the game hands down and are you kidding do you honestly think mets fans will be worrying about race if omar signs manny! thats rediculous people will be saying thank god we have the best hitter in the game on our team, bring us to the playoffs and hopefully win us a world series. i am not a huge fan of lowe, but there really isnt much out there and lowe definelty could help pelf just like tommy glavine and martinez have helped members of the mets staff.
got to give it you, you have persistence. it’s not going to happen, but at least you are trying.
are you going to make little bars of soap with manny on them?
LMAO!!! so i as-sume tyler is NOSTRADANUS.. or is it you??
At least you gave me a laugh with this one.