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According to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Derek Lowe has agreed to a four-year, $60 million with the Braves.
…well at least we now have an answer…i would think that if the Mets don’t pick up Ben Sheets or Oliver Perez, the front office can consider it a tremendous failure…this deal is a little more generous than i would have been willing to go, but hopefully they have some kind of contingency plan in place…
In a poll to MetsBlog.com earlier this morning, 51 percent of people who voted said, if the Mets had to give out a four-year deal, the four-year deal should go to Oliver Perez, while 49 percent said the deal should go to Lowe.
Update, 11:11 am:
…added to by Matthew Cerrone…
…this is a shame…it’s a shame in that lowe is a better fit for the Mets than Oliver Perez, i think…however, lowe at four years and $15 million per season is quite excessive…and, i’m not sure he’s totally worth it…
…the worst part is that, i got the sense the Mets were pretty confident in their position with lowe, following the team’s meeting with Scott Boras last week at Citi Field…
…the key here is the four guaranteed years, because, i just don’t see how the Mets get around giving four years to Oliver Perez…
…i mean, i’m sure they would love to sign perez to only a three-year deal, but i see no way Scott Boras allows that to happen – especially knowing the Mets position for a front-end starting pitcher…
…frankly, i’m starting to think the Mets may be better off signing both Randy Wolf and Ben Sheets or Jon Garland, than overpaying for perez…
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Well done Omar, great job!!
Yes, great job Omar not ridiculously overpaying for a mediocre pitcher.
Im willing to bet before three weeks ago, you had never even heard of Derek Lowe. Way to bandwagon, friend! Impressive fan-dom.
Tremendous failure? What are you talking about? Have you ever seen Derek Lowe pitch? Has anyone ever been afraid of facing Derek Lowe, ever?
This deal is a joke. Have fun in Atlanta.
HEs saying its a failure if they lose out on Perez and Sheets as well.
Exactly NYMetsfan
Fred’s cousin Dave is very sensitive. =)
It’s a failure b/c Omar should have secured OP before Lowe’s signing. Now Omar’s at the mercy of Boras.
Boras represents both of them.
deelee your point might have made some sense if boras didnt rep both players.
Certainly, but Omar should have pressed the issue w/OP, rather than offering two contracts that were certainly going to be rejected.
deelee, how exactly would that work?
Has to be Perez now. Sheets is too risky.
This is a tremendous failure, though they did exactly what they said they would – stick to budget and not overpay for a pitcher.
He is saying if they don’t get one of the 2, Sheets and or ollie then you can say it’s a tremendous failure.
Right now Omar has done good by not giving a marginal pitcher 15 million a year when he’s 36, 37, 38, and 39.
Well said, Mark. In two yrs or so, Atlanta is going be desperate to get out from under this.
I disagree – we can take a gander on Sheets with Niese (too young, needs more minor seasoning) or Redding (um, ugh LOL) as #6 and #7. Or as someone mentioned below Garland – I have been clamoring for Garland since 2007. Get ‘er done, Omar
I know what he’s saying. I think we needed Lowe, and the failure to sign him will eventually bite us in the arse. Perez will be ok, but then we essentially have the same top 4 starters as last year. No upgrade.
Ollie and Sheets. Ollie and Sheets. and if sheets is really a concern…. Ollie and garland Ollie and garland (that’s my original 2, figured someone would way over-bid on Sheets)
I like the idea of Ollie and Sheets. We have Redding and Niese as a fallback (though not nearly as good) option for Sheets, in case of injury. He could probably be had on the cheap too.
The mets just need to sign Oliver Perez and Ben Sheets and we will be ok…..I hope.
Great job!!!!
Let the over-paying begin!
60 million? I rather get ollie and sheets with that money.
and u still have enough to sing hudson..
how do you SING hudson?
lol, sign!!!! better case!!! lol..
Now its time to get Perez or Sheet. Its good to get something moving. Lowe gone, next.
Well, I guess money was more important to him than winning.
At least the Mets will be contenders during the span of his contract. Something he is going to find very hard to avoid.
Next.
“Well, I guess money was more important to him than winning.”
Welcome to baseball.
We HAVE to sign OP. I wanted Ollie back from the beginning anyway. I don’t understand why people are taling about Lowe like he’s an ace all of a sudden.
no we don’t have to sign ollie.. let’s weigh our options first before handing out 4 years and 50 millions for this roller coaster ride..
Omar…well can’t win’em all but this hurts.
I’m almost wondering if Boras figured he’d get the $15-16 million he wanted from Lowe to rush into the Perez market in order to get the Mets to panic and overpay.
Sign Sheets, Sign Pedro with the money you would have given lowe. Sign a utility infielder with whats left and let’s start thing freakin season
You gotta love it.
Way to go, Omar. It’s about time we got backed into a corner and had to overpay for Oliver Perez.
Would you rather get backed into a corner and have to over pay for a 27 year old lefty, who has the ability to completely dominate a game? Or a 35 year old righty who is more consistent but can’t completely dominate any game?
That’s the big difference.
Ollie and Manny?
Must have been the Alan Jackson factor.
Can’t compete with that …
I thought it was Toby Keith?
Either way …
Say hello to Perez, Pedro and Garcia! I’m glad we didn’t overpay for Lowe.
This one hurts, only because the Mets were “supposed” to sign Lowe. Then again, the Sox were “supposed” to sign Tex too….
I like Lowe but not at 4 years/60 million and we would have had to beat that offer…no thank you.
Good riddance – I’d come to believe that there are better options for us than Lowe anyway. The Braves are desperate, and I think there’s a high likelihood they regret this signing.
Welcome back, Ollie, and please Omar – SIGN BEN SHEETS!!
Im cool with him going…just pick up Ollie and someone else decent…he’ll regret that Braves signing within a year…well until he cashes that check.
Two months ago, the Braves had no rotation, and now they have a better rotation than we do. The Mets had at least 2 spots to fill their rotation (Maine huge question mark, Pelfrey will come down to earth), and all we hear about is how the mets are “focused on their pitching.” That doesn’t appear to be the case, does it? You let the Braves get 3 quality pitchers and revamp their rotation by getting Lowe, Vazquez (Mets fell asleep w/ him), and Kawakama. And you have countered with Tim Redding.
you forgot the last part.. congrats on 3rd place!! that’s what u said in the other post..
Silly post.
Santana >> Lowe
Pelfrey >= Jurrgens
Healthy Maine >= Vasquez
Who knows what the Japanese pitcher will do? They are always hit or miss.
I don’t think that Pelfrey is better than Jarrjens. Living in ATL and watching him pitch, I think JJ is a better SP. Yes, Pelf has the potential but until he can prove that last year wasn’t a fluke, JJ has a leg up.
We need to sign Ollie and another SP in case Maine can’t come back to form.
Oh and Manny is still available :)
And “JJ” doesn’t hav to prove last year was
a fluke? Seriously, whats wrong w/some of you people?
Seriously. My god you people love to spin things anyway you can to prove the sky is falling. “JJ” was a rookie last year. Pelfrey is going into his third full season. Jebus!
TBIZ:
WHO’S JEBUS??
Indeed!, Pelphrey”Come back down to earth”
What!? A24y/o 1st round draft pick who should still be improving upon an outstanding
season isn’t likely to get better?
Where’s Atlantas Johan(or anyone even close) And Maine a”Huge ?”What!? Did I miss
the story of him having tommy john surgery?
he’s a big, strong young kid, has proven to be
an above ave.MLB SP,is young and also
should get better.
im not saying you should sleep on him, but kawakami is a 33 year old 5 foot 10 jap who averages 10 wins a season in japan… idk if id be too worried about him making any kind of impact next year…
either way… omar… i hope u get fired.. u obviously s*ck at ur job
Please lay off the crack during the day.
manny ramirez is looming in the dark alley.. with how cheap we have been this offseason i sense we are due for a big splash of money..
Sometimes, I really have to wonder what Omar is doing. Maybe he is just too stupid to handle more than one negotiation at at time.
While Theo Epstein is out there taking risks and signing Brad Penny, John Smoltz, Rocco Baldelli and Takashi Saito to reasonable contracts, Omar is fully focused on JUST Derek Lowe…..
and then he comes up empty.
We BETTER pull out of this and sign Oliver Perez ASAP – or better yet – sign Ben Sheets to a two year deal and Pedro to a one year deal (as insurance).
If we spend the next two weeks dancing with Scott Boras as he outwits Omar again, gets another team involved and forces us to either OVERSPEND for Ollie or leaves us to settle for Randy Wolf of Jon Garland, I am going to LOSE MY FREAKING MIND and DUMP THIS TEAM FOR EVER!!!!!
wahhhhhhhhh
did you forget, K-Rod, Putz, Redding? Aren’t those responsible signings? So you wanted Omar to overpay for Lowe? How is that responsible? What big signing has Epstein done this winter? None.
Why do I keep reading that people want to sign Pedro as a backup or insurance? When I think of pedro the last two words that come mind are those. He is a model of inconsistency and injuries. Redding is a backup plan for sheets, I am actually all for signing Sheets and Garland. Garland wont cost compensation picks and letting Ollie walk nets us one pick from signing Sheets.
Sheets and Garland would be great, but would it be cheaper than Ollie, Pedro and Garcia? Plus, Pedro and Garcia would be a one year thing with incentives like Smoltz and Penny.
This signing 4/60 just set the market for Ollie. He now will get a 4 year contract for minimum of 48 million.
4/48 will be the low point in negotiations
why are people mad?… lowe was mediocre at best… 15 mil would not have been worth it at all…. now we can put our focus on ollie who is bound to find himself on the mound and grab sheets at a price u can buy 6 hotdogs at shea for…
Yeah, bring back the headcase Perez and come back with the same exact poisoned team from 2008- same collapsing offense, same rotation, zero chemistry. Shouldn’t it tell you something if no other team is bidding on him? And you switched out one top 4 closer for another in K-Rod for Wagner. Mets pathetically spent 36 million, while the supposedly lower budget (not anymore) Braves spent close to 100 million, and the NYY spent 430 million.
3rd place.
yes we switched out the 4 closer for the 1 closer, and added the 2 closer as well. there may be holes but in no way can we be considered the same poisoned team
Oh no…we are bringing back the same rotation which was 5th in ERA, 4th in WIns, and tied with the Cards for 2nd least losses in the NL…We are screwed!!!
We are bringing back the same offense that finished tied for #2 in runs scored, despite having no offense from C, or 2nd base, a revolving door in LF, half a season of production at 1st base, and a concussed RF’er…..WE ARE SCREWED!!!!!!
We improved the league’s worst bullpen, which blew 29 saves with two of the best relievers in the AL, while casting off dead weight….NOOOOO
3rd Place, HERE WE COME!!!!!!
Once again we were used to get a better deal somewhere else. Well, now that Lowe has chosen the mediocre Braves, we can concentrate on someone who wants to be a Met. Let’s go for Wolf and Ollie and try and pick up a Hudson. The rest of the team should be fine.
You people are such apologists. Two days ago, Lowe was the “perfect fit” and now the apologists say he’s not that good/mediocre.
Apologize some more.
I’m sorry.
Me too.
Im sorry your clueless. You dont give Lowe 4/60
That’s disappointing. Lowe probably isn’t worth that much but he was the best available pitcher (at least for 2009) and you hate to lose out on him.
Is this disappointing? Yes.
Tremendous failture? Not yet.
Lowe will be a good pitcher for the Braves for 1 – maybe 2 years. After that he’ll probably do what most guys in their late 30s do – decline rapidly. Can’t fault the Mets for not throwing 4 years and a boatload of cast at a soon to be 36 year old who is good, not great.
Ollie has to be signed now, and they will probaby overpay. But I think it’s better to overpay a 27 year old with alot of talent than a good 36 year old.
Ollie + Sheets?? I doubt it happens, but one can dream. The dollar value over 1-2 years for those 2 would only likely be $7-8 million more than what the Braves just paid for Lowe by himself.
Only a tremendous failure if they don’t pick up any of the three.
but ur also talking about ollie who has the potential to be absolute star who just needs to find himself and sheets who when healthy is one of the top 2 best in the game..so having both of them for maybe 6-8 million a year over what we would have paid lowe with is fine by me
Yeah that’s the point I was trying to make. I think if you’re going to overpay, I’d rather see them get 2 guys with big time potential in Perez and Sheets than just one 36 year old solid pitcher in Lowe
I doubt it happens, but I think it should at least be an option.
This stinks. Then again $15M is too much. Anyway, please sing Sheets and O.P.!
I have been saying sheets from day one. He can be had on a one to two year deal. That is perfect. If we sign O.P. then we will have the pitching depth to go after an Sheets because we have redding and Niese.
Matt needs to ask some “people familiar with the mets front office’s thinking” why they have not explored Sheets.
I really think the people who are saying how dumb or how terrible omar is are being unbelieveably ignorant..
Who wants to pay 15M a year for Lowe? if you do, you are insane… Ollie at a 3, maybe 4 year deal for cheaper, has more upside and leaves more money for elsewhere.
And to the guy saying Omar is too stupid to multitask? Saito is a risk, Smoltz is a risk, Penny is a risk, Baldelli, yea nice signing, but hes probably best in a DH league anyway…
Open your minds try looking at the big picture, this IS NOT a video game
Overpaid!
I think the Mets offer was reasonable, and I would have gone up to $45m for 3 years, but not guarantee the fourth.
We will sign Ollie now for close to $50m for 4 years, and that’s fine, although be prepared for more maddening inconsistency. It actually makes for a more balanced rotation to have 2 lefties, and Redding fits nicely with this plan.
*sign
Unless we get Sheets and/or an upgrade in left field then I would say this is a tremendous failure. Ollie is not even close to being the type of pitcher Lowe is and isn’t worth more than 10 million per.
Hey Gina,
I thought you were against Sheets. Possed the idea earlier in the off-season but you felt he was to big of an injury risk to consider even on a two year deal.
Is Sheets an option now because you feel he is just better than O.P. despite the injury risk?
HERE COME THE HATERS…..I don’t know about you, but this is the best move Omar has made all offeason…are you kidding me??
15mm a year for this guy? c’mon…he’s friggin 35….and if you want the mets Chew..go right ahead we won’t miss ya…and if you think the Braves have a better rotation than the Mets you really don’t deserve to be a Mets fan Mister…
you cant question the judgment, but you can question how it was handled. If he hadnt low-balled him from the beginning he might have signed here cheaper and we could have been concentrating on other areas, bargain shopping like the Sox
Id rather Ollie anyway, I just hope Omar doesnt mess that up the same way he did this
No way, Boras was going to get 4/60 either way. Glad it’s not the Mets.
if thats true then me too but I’m not sure the Braves were even close to involved before Smoltz left. If Omar offered 3/40 and an option when there was nothing on the table, how could Boras have turned that down?
Again though, Id rather Ollie
Great job Omar. Now we have to overpay OP. Initial offer to OP was 3/close to $30mm? I get the feeling he’s going to go elsewhere.
This isn’t the Mets fault, the Braves missed out on everyone they went after and now have overpaid for Lowe. The Mets played this well, but now Ollie must be signed. I have to admit I was hoping for Ollie, he younger, left handed, and pitched well against the Phillies.
agree w/most of what you said.
Good, he never wanted to be a Met. It’s clear. He used us to make someone else pay more and Omar did not bite.
Move on
At this point I would not be upset to see them sign Garland and Pedro/Garcia and sink all their money into offense.
Have Omar say the SP market is overpriced so we will improve the offense.
We have went that route before.
A rotation of
Johan, Pelfrey, Maine, Garland, Pedro, Garcia, Redding is good enough if you get Manny.
where do i sign?
Seven pitchers to fill five spots?
it’s called pitching depth. See last years injuries. hardly any team has just 5 SPers. Look at Boston’s signing of Penny and Smoltz. They’re not going to start in the rotation but give pitching depth.
TRS,
I think you mentioned last week that you got the sense that he did not want to play in NY. Did you read anything suggesting this? I think you might be right. I was just wondering.
To me he just never seemed to want to. It was like the Mets never entered his mind until Boston was out of the mix then he needed us to get his contract up. What would the Braves have had to pay him if we were not in on it? 3/36.
No way I give Oliver Perez a 4 year deal . Way too risky to give either Lowe or Perez 4 years. If Ollie has a meltdown next year then we’re stuck with him for 4 years. The Braves are offering way too much. As I said yesterday, I am seriously done with that trash Boras. Why give him anything at this point. Tell him to take OP and walk. Sign Sheets and 1 more starter from the list of Garland, Wolf, Odalis Perez etc. AND, please, please go for Manny or at least another OF’er with pop.
boras is manny’s agent fyi
who’s our competition to get Perez? Is there another Atlanta out there that can come in and jack the price up or even steal him from us? At 3/30, I have to believe there are other suitors out there. Maybe Texas?
If by friday he doesn’t accept 3/30 OMAR MOVE ON!!!!! i have never seen a GM so UNITASKING as this guy, he can spend all offseason on only 1 player. is ridiculous!!!
alex, he did sign Redding this week. He also signed K-Rod and made an awesome trade for Putz during 3 days of the winter meetings. It just takes time, Papi.
case, you my dude, by if you put redding as a “good sign for omar” i’m gonna have a seaizure… he has done NOTHING but to fix what even my daughter knew was wrong with the team last year, please don’t give him credit for nothing, although the best move so far has been not signing lowe, he’s old and overrated!!
$2.25 million is a good signing to compete for the last spot or give pitching depth. you can’t have a rotation full of aces.
There were two things that hurt the Mets last year.
The MAJOR shortcoming (by far) was the bullpen, which was addressed by getting K-Rod for half his asking price, and trading for Putz without giving up major pieces. I’d say Omar has in fact addressed that.
The offense is a tad streaky, but while everyone focuses on the regression that Tatis/Murph may face, they forget just how much went wrong with the lineup last year, with C,2nd Base, RF, LF and 1st Base (for half the year). I’d love another bat, but if Omar only addresses the pitching, this team will be fine.
1) We have no idea if Omar is looking or not.
2) We can’t really move past SP because it may take all of our resources either in money or trade to get that SP. Example we can’t go out and sign our boy Abreu because we may be forced to use that money on a SP.
Boras now has the Mets by the balls.
He knows we CANT lose Ollie and we have no other option.
This is bad, very bad
Get ready to OVERPAY for Ollie
4/52 I see in the future
Why can’t we lose Ollie? He’s not that great and can be replaced by signing 2 others. Omar is playing this perfectly by NOT giving in to Boras.
Or, now Omar has Boras by the cojones. He knows no one wants to pay more than 3/30.
I’m guessing 3/36 with a mutual option making it 4/50.
Having us by the balls is irrelevant. If no other team wants to pony up the cash, Perez will sign with us because we offer him the most.
garland and sheets won’t make 48 millions i nthe next 4 years and we can have both, i really hope omar sees this as well, oliver perez is more inconsistant than an old microwave without electronic device.. please SIGN BEN SHEETS!!
Agreed. Sign Sheets and give up a 2nd round pick and let Ollie walk and get back 2 picks. Garland cost no picks.
Guys don’t fool yourself here. We are not backed into a corner with Ollie. This was not 1A 1B. It was Lowe a B pitcher followed by a bunch of different C pitchers. Perez is NOT a B pitcher. In fact, although he is better, he is not that much better than Garland or Wolf.
Agree thereal. I would say tell Boras to f off. If we upgrade other places than losing out on Lowe won’t hurt us much. There’s no reason for the front office to get desperate and think they have to overpay for Ollie now.
more like a tremendous miracle.
i feel that if the braves lost out on lowe they would do whatever it took to get peavy.
well now they got lowe who will be their ace and is no better than smoltz last two season and did the braves make the playoffs? mp
lowe is a #2 pitcher at best and he will be their ace.
i am thrilled.
i dont love oliver perez but we at least already have an ace in santana. if we brought in sheets and maybe some insurance like wolf instead of perez then i think the offseason would be a success.
i mean a rotation of:
santana
sheets
pelfrey
maine
wolf
and if someone (sheets, maine) gets hurt we got redding and neise waiting in the wings.
anyone like this?
Yup, fine by me. A little worried with having 2 injury guys in Sheets and Wolf but….
Ollie isn’t the only option I would much rather than take the chance with Sheets than overpay for Ollie. Sign Sheets and upgrade left field.
I know you don’t like him but sign Sheets and Garland. Gives you a ton of innings and protection for Sheets in Redding who would be in the pen until needed.
thereal…. i think we need to be best friends… we are the only 2 people thinking clearly on this board right now.. everyone else seems to be flustered
I agree with trs too but I don’t think it’s a good idea to be lookin for a best friend on metsblog. Just sayin…
=)
seriously, stop stalking trl
TRS:
joeys your biggest fan!! yay!!
he wanted too much. now turn the attention to O.P., sheets, & wolf.
who exactly is the competion for perez???
The Mets are gonna sigh Cuban defector Yadel Marti. Who, by the way, is going to finish 2nd to Johan in the 2009 CY Young voting!!! :)
Lay off the drugs.
When it happens, we can light up together!!)
and his name is darryl lol perfect comment deelee
Everybody talks about the Braves Japanese pickup. like he’s something great.
Marti is worlds better. Bank on it.
Where did you read this?
About him signing with the Mets??
That’s just my prediction. But he’s a FA. Someone’s gonna benefit from signing him.
Sounds good Omar get it done!
What’s with everyone clamoring that we need to sign 2 or 3 starters? We have one spot open people. 1.
Everyone wants 2 or 3, because if you sign Sheets, you need a replacement, because chances are he doesn’t make it the whole season.
So if you sign Ollie and Sheets, Redding moves to the bullpen in a Daren oliver role. And he becomes the 5th starter when/if Sheets gets hurt.
Redding was cheap and has already said he does not mind pitching out of the pen. This gives you the freedom of bringing in a Sheets or even a Wolf. Don’t forget that both Johan and Maine had offseason surgery. It would be nice for once to have depth.
If you sign Sheets and Garland then look at your depth compared to last year
Johan, Sheets, Pelfrey, Maine, Garland, Redding, Niese, Figgy
Lets get Isringhausen, Pulsipher and Wilson back here and make one more run at Generation K…. projected Starters:
Izzy
Pulsipher
Wilson
Santana
Pelfrey
Santana makes a great # 4.
Omar get it done. This offseason is too long.
Awesome! The Braves got fleeced. Lowe is a solid pitcher but far from great and certainly not worth $15 Million per year.
While Ollie is completely erratic at times, he is still young, a lefty and still has tremendous upside. I would rather be forced to overpay for Ollie than Lowe. Also, Ollie is already a Met so I have a soft spot for him. Now we can sign Ollie, even if it means we have to slightly overpay and then go after Sheets who is going to have the best year out of all three of these guys.
what about andy pettite
isnt he still avail?
at least hes a reliable 15 win guy
one year/10.5mil
I love it. Great job by Omar. Not only did we not overpay for Lowe, but the Braves of all teams did! I find that hilarious. Wren… you are no Scheurholz.
I’m hopeful this opens up the trade market for us. I don’t think people on here realize just how fortunate we are that Omar didn’t give up this kind of cash to this guy. Look around the league at what some other guys are making annually.
Sabathia: $23M
Johan: $23M
Zambrano: $18.3M
Zito: $18M
Peavy: $17.3M
Burnett: $16.5M
Oswalt: $14.5M
Buehrle: $14M
Halladay: $13.3M
Dempster: $13M
You really think Lowe should have the 7th highest annual salary for starting pitchers in the bigs????
wadehead have you been reading my posts for the last 2 days. HAHA.
This is a joke. Derek Lowe is nowhere near the 7th best pitcher in baseball, but he is sure paid like it.
Great post. I was all about getting him and bringing Lowe in at 15MM per year, but you are right. He should not get that kind of money. Again, great post.
we need to stop over reacting, LOWE is NOT THAT GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! sheets is better and perez has better stuff… garland is just as consistant as him and will come cheaper and younger.. ppl, relax.. man, what 2 choke jobs can do to a fan based!!
THANK GOD we didn’t get lowe, this is the best news I’ve heard all day!!
Ben Sheets, Oliver Perez, Yadel Marti.
Get it done Omar!!!!!!
if ollie gets signed (hopefully at this point), and no other big signing occurs (Sheets,Manny) then expect to hear those boos opening day. Im actually pretty excited to let my voice be heard again in the form of loud BOOS. The front office will know how big of a mistake they made hearing boos in the new stadium
Booing in the Wilpons version of Ebbets Field, priceless.
They already know fans like you are idiots, boo all you like. Us real Mets fans that actually like our team will just ignore you.
Had to see this coming. Kudos to Boras, he is just the best at what he does.
I keep blinking my eyes every time I look at the Mets payroll. How the hell are they spending 137 million?? I just thought it’d be closer to 110.
Now it’s on to Perez or Sheets I guess. This signing won’t make things any easier.
the payroll right now is around 123 mil
Like every team other than the Yankees, the Mets can’t afford to be wrong on $15 million players. So, I’m glad they didn’t overspend to get Lowe. And I hope they don’t overspend on Perez, either (and I consider 4 years/$48 million overspending).
Best move is to get Sheets for shorter-term (and if that gets too pricey, forget him, too) and if they need pitching next season, there will be guys with big contracts on bad teams that will be available as salary dumps. Do that.
The Braves got desperate, good organizations shouldn’t act that way.
We shouldn’t clamor for deals in January just to entertain us and end our boredom. That’s no way for a team to run their organization.
i hear the lowe is consistent and healthy going 32 games for 6 or 7 straight years.
wait i also heard a year or two ago that livan hernandez was could do that too…look at him now.
lowe maybe last 2 years in the deal. they are going to have problems because they sign old pitchers…they got an old staff
lowe 35
kawakami 33
vazquez 32
hudson? 33
we have a younger staff in my opinion
Great, looks like the Mets need to check their change purses before they make a move.
I’m all for financial restraint, but when the difference between getting a 200 ip sub 4 era guy is 3 mil, they look awfull cheap. If Perez signs elsewhere then this is a disaster.
I fear that will happen, guess we will be looking at all the usual scrubs on the Citi Field mound this year. Wow, I can’t wait to pay those prices to see the likes of the Lawrences and Limas of the world.
Lowe was a good picher but not worth 4 yrs at $15 million per year. I would rather the Mets sign BEN SHEETS for 2 years and also sign Pedro for 1 year as insurance. This will give us 6 starters and allow Neise to get another year in the minors.
I would also not have a problem bringing Ollie back at a reasonable contract. Let’s see how this plays out over the next 2 weeks before we get to excited.
pelfrey is not a #4,maine was last year but year before when healthy he was a 3. id go with ollie or sheets then sign pedro for 5th starter
Omar knew what he was doing with Lowe. You guys are crazy if you thought the Mets were going to give Lowe 15 per for any year. Finally we can move on. What Omar needs to do is sign Ollie for 4/48 and Sheets 2/18 or 20. Redding will be Sheets back up plan just in case. That is why he is signed. He can also be put in the bullpen if Sheets remains healthy. Don’t lose hope Omar will not let us down.
We are not signing Sheets, have you even heard us mentioned with him? Not happening. Welcome back OP and Pedro……..yippeee, same old Mets
were not signing ollie and sheets.
if we did sign 2 sps it wud be ollie and pedro
Good! Can’t wait to rock him…. MAKE A TRADE! ,,, HALLDAY, OSWALT, BEDARD.. someone
4 years 46 mil for Ollie.. just do it and lets move on
Im glad the Mets didnt gohigher on Lowe, I wish the Mets would be loyal to theur 2 in house guys Ollie and Pedro and sign them and get a Garland or Sheets in here to bolster the rotation then we can go after some more bats (MANNY MANNY)
I’ve always said it’s all about The Benjamins.Wach Lowe have a press conference saying he always wanted to play for The Braves.
You have to know when to say no and $15 Mil for Lowe was way to much.
We’ll see what happens with the Mets next.I’m sure guys like Joe Bignino are going to hate not getting Lowe because he is always good at spending other people’s money
We can finally move on.. Sheets and Pedro! Redding and Niese to back up!
I’d rather go with Redding and Niese than sign Randy Wolf.
Did the Braves overpay? Maybe. But they just added 200 innings and 15 wins to their staff, and took away the same from their division rival. With all the unknowns on this roster and coming off the two years this team just had, there needed to be some urgency to create stability and predictability. Minaya approached Lowe in take it or leave it mode.
I get the feeling this one’s going to haunt them come September, when Perez is averaging 4+ innings a start and Lowe goes 3-1 down the stretch…
Still gotta play the games. does lowe get 15 wins and 200 innings? maybe. does he do it the year after? less likely, the year after..?
There are better options.
How did they add 15 wins and 200 innings to their team and take it away from us?
The Mets rotation in 2008:
Santana: 16 W, 234 IP
Pelfrey: 13 W, 200 IP
Perez: 10 W, 194 IP
Maine: 10 W, 140 IP
Pedro: 5 W, 109 IP
Looks like, at worst, we are giving up 10 W and 91 IP. However, we already have Redding, and the odds are overwhemlingly in our favor to add another average pitcher (12 W, 180 IP).
So by my math, we are only “losing” 3 W, and 20 IP.
I am not that upset.
I do like Ollie. His stuff, when he is on (i.e. good Ollie), is better than Johan’s.
Trouble is he is so inconsistent. Too many times he is bad Ollie.
Lets hope we get him.
I do like the idea of going after Sheets. Perhaps a one year deal with 10 guaranteed and another 8 in incentives would get him here. Its good for him because he can prove he is healthy. Its good for the Mets because if he is not healthy, the Mets are not out the full 18 million.
I would consider a similar deal (for less money (i.e. 7 guaranteed and 8 in incentives).
By the way the argument I heard last night was that Citi Field will be a launching pad (i.e. based on a little batting practice by Wright and Murphy in September). Who knows if that is true based on such a small sample size. Note also, Shea will be gone as well (who knows if Shea had an effect on the wind).
Lowe is a ground ball pitcher which is preferred in a lauching pad. Plus Johan, Maine are flyball pitchers, only Pelfrey is a ground ball pitcher. Mets preferred another ground ball pitcher. Ollie is a flyball pitcher.
Frankly, with Castillo and Delgado on the right side. I prefer a flyball pitcher.
And the guy that said Omar can’t multi-task is right on the money. It’s not the point that they didn’t get Lowe, it’s the point that they have not done a dam-n thing while playing this game with Boras. They should have had other pieces to our puzzle solved by now. Utility IF’er, lefty reliever, maybe OF bat? NADA. Also, for the people saying the Braves rotation is better than ours? Who do they have that matches with Johan a true ace? They have 3 # 3 starters. Solid, but nothing that scares you. We will whack Javy Vasquez all over the park this year just watch!
Can’t. What if they had to over pay for SP? Or trade for one. Until they get a SP, if they have a budget, their hands are tied a little.
am i missing something? DId anyone else see low come up small in last year’s playoffs vs the phillies??
Yes, you’re missing that he came up big for Boston in 04 in that he won all the games that they won to clinch the respective series.
He pitched well in that serious you f’in mook
Thanks Omar. You failed miserably….
One or two bad starts in a post season series doesn’t mean much. Maybe that team matched up well, maybe that pitcher was just off, who knows.
Johan doesn’t have the best track record in the post season yet, but I’d take him over anyone else if I had the chance.
if you’re giving low that kind of money, his recent playoff performance better have been good… and his was not.
Also does this mean the front office can’t use the “waiting on pitchers” excuse anymore when they’re asked why they aren’t considering upgrades for other spots?
Boras not only won this round but it also brings Oliver Perez’s asking price up a few million.
There are going to be a few teams that are now in contention for Perez at 12 million. Bet on it! I just hope Perez’s desire to play for the Mets is strong enough to get this done at 10.
Omar just painted himself into a corner here. If he doesn’t come up with OP out of this, this is a disaster. We’ll be looking at Pedro and Redding in #4 and 35 slots and also Maine who is no lock to return to form.
Matt, how do we have room fro two starters? They’re not going with a 6 man rotation and you can’t go into the season expecting someone to be hurt, because then you have an odd man out.
Alex, You are driving me crazy w/this Ben Sheets stuff. Obviously, theres something
seriously wrong w/ the guy because no ones
talkin’ to him.Further, the guys always hurt.
Redding was bad enough. Sign Ollie and
while you have Boras in the room tell him
we’ll go 3 yrs,thats it w, Manny and throw
in Cora and lets go to spring training.
fongu:
then how come NOW every post u see is about getting him and ollie??? come on man, while im skeptical of him as well as anybody in here, i also knwo the potential he can have if healthy, why is it ok to sign “el duque and alou” who were like 50 years old and not this guy who if healtthy can be top 5 pitcher in the NL?? sounds a lil bias if u ask me!!
I’m not bias at all.But something must be wrong w/ the guy if no ones offring anything
to/for him. The guys been a pretty good pitcher And sometimes very good BUT he’s
always hurt.With,Beltron,Johan,Wright,joekings and
the new bullpen guys in their prime And w/
Delgado playing for one last contract, the
time to win is now.We simply cant afford
another year of Duques and Alous making
mils on the DL while we wait and hope.
Like I said LAst year when omar gave
Luis that absurd contract we’re now struck
w/ a bad sit @ 2B. We can’t afford to sign
guys who theres Atleast a 50/50 chance we’ll
get little to nothing out of while Mgmt uses
their salaries as an excuse that we can’t
go out and spend again on the same position
so if the time to win is now the nwhy no go for the best pitcher which is sheets instead of settling for ollie perez when that hasn’t gotten us no where the past 2 years.. ?? does that even makes sense..
rrrrrrrrrr,Again, I’d have no problem w/Sheets
on the cheap IF HEALTHY. And obviously,
thats not a given since he hasn’t been able
to attract flies this winter.DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS I’M WRITING?
BEFORE I GIVE 4 YEARS TO OLLIE AND 48 MILLIONS HERE’S WHAT I DO:
SHEETS 2 YEARS 22
GARLAND 2 YEARS 22..
they are both better and wwe won’t suffer from vomit or headaches everytime ollie pitches.. and that notion we have of him being a “big time pitcher” needs to stop.. if so.. check last game of last year, or the past 2 september.. see how much he has drop off..
You really do have the medicals on Sheets
don’t you alex?
fongu:
as replied above, go and check how many posts have been put up about about getting sheets now that lowe is gone.. go and check for yourselve..
Sign Manny! Now!
This is one of those days when I find this blog so annoying.
So many fans here want the Mets to do something just for the sake of doing something – its about April-October not about what occupies your time and keeps you entertained in January.
Overspending for Lowe, or Perez, is a baseball mistake. It’s not a “disaster” as some claim. There is time here, including into the season, to get our rotation right.
We shouldn’t clamor for deals in January just to entertain us and end our boredom. That’s no way for a team to run their organization.
We can only hope against all hope Perez gives us 4 good years and doesn’t become complacent when he gets his new contract. His lack of focus at times worries me. Hopefully his marriage makes him regains his focus and maybe he turns into the pitcher we all hope he turns out to be.
I just don’t know offering 4 years is going to make me feel comfortable with the team as is unless Sheets is going to sign with Perez. I guess we will see. Maine is a major concern, he has never been healthy in any of his seasons as a Met and he is coming off a surgery, so who knows what he will give you.
But if the Mets go after Sheets or Pettitte, I will be fine with that.
Hope they got a lot of bad PR, something they have deserved all offseason. Hopefully Perez goes somewhere else and then they’ll really have egg on their face.
Let’s get a few things straight….
1 – we are not signing Manny
2 – we are not signing Orlando Hudson
3 – we are not going to do anything to help our offense
4 – OMAR HAS NO IMAGINATION WHATSOEVER.
5 – we usually know exactly where we stand from what Omar says which means Sheets isn’t even on his radar….
We will be OK with Perez and better than OK with Sheets (and another backup) HOWEVER…..
If we end up without Perez or Sheets and we end up with either Garland or Wolf….
We will NOT WIN ANYTHING and OMAR MUST GO.
They won’t get Perez for less than 3/40 now, and it would be surprising if they don’t have to guarantee a 4th year. There really is no alternative for the Mets now, and Boras knows it. Minaya gambled that there would be no other suitors for Lowe and lost. Now they’ll pay #2 starter money for a #3-4 pitcher.
If you add Ollie and Sheets/garland, the Mets are better off.
I’d perfer sheets because like everyone has said he’s an ACE when he’s healthy. And Ollie will give you close to 200 innings and be good for 3/5ths his starts. When Sheets goes down you have redding to take the ball every 5th day. This also allows Redding to mop up for Ollie when he has one of those 3 or 4 inning starts.
I could not agree more. Ben Sheets is a high reward pitcher worth the risk. It’s not like he is going to get more than 2 years and he has the best stuff out there. I hope Omar considers this.
I see 3rd place. This team has exactly half of a rotation right now (I’m only counting Maine as 1/2 due to injury). Plus you know Pelfrey is going to have to come down to earth. If he comes down more than that, this team could finish 4th….especially when you factor in that they have zero chemistry. And I bet people will be calling for Delgado’s release by mid-May again.
I see about 75 wins.
It’s going to take more than Putz and K-Rod to get the Mets to outdue the Phillies and at this point, the Braves too. I hope I’m wrong and Perez delievers against teams like the Marlins, Pirates and Padres when the Mets have a chance to gain some ground or further distance themselves from the other team.
We are putting all our eggs in one basket if we can look into the future and see Perez all of a sudden turning into a potential ace. I hope so and I hope I’m wrong and he turns into that guy. We will see.
LMAO!! DAMN!!
i have a question, for everyone saying Perez will have additional suitors..
WHO?
I imagine the Phillies will be a “suitor” if for no other reason than to drive up the price. Maybe one of those teams that missed out on Sabathia and AJ to the yanks will jump in. Brewers? Angels? Who knows, but I doubt they will be competetive.
Who would have thought the Braves would get in on Lowe? Don’t count out Boras, he just proved why so many guys sign with him.
The Dodgers.
Not to mention isn’t that the same argument we heard over and over again with Lowe? That no one else was interested or was going to pay more than 12 million per even if they were?
Maybe the Mets got too smug and thought Boras couldn’t come up with a team that had actual interest in Lowe, especially at his age and the years he wanted. The Dodgers have a need in their starting rotation and I see Boras calling around.
Boras plays this game better than any other agent in the game, we can sit here and say “who’s going to be interested in Perez.” Well, there will always be two or three teams interested.
I didn’t say that but I’ll answer your question. Brewers, Cardinals.
NOW IS THE TIME TO GET MANNY!!!!!!!! Before you blow everything Omar!
Why do you do this to yourself? Manny just simply is not going to be a met.
Sign Manny!
Omar loves Manny and he will blow any deal to make sure he gets his man.
I’m starting to have more interest in Perez. If we have to go 4 years anyway give me the younger pitcher. Not to mention he has more upside.
Omar will let the Phillies sign Ollie.
So I’m pretty sure these last two signing bring the Braves over their 2008 payroll. Also I think the Cubs are over last seasons payroll. So this should give Omar some more freedom to spend.
he shouldnt have to have other teams go over in order to spend..ITS THE METS…NEW STADIUM..OVERPRICED TICKETS…they have enough money to spend…this is ridiculous..with how cheap they are being with perez i wouldnt be surprised if they miss out on perez too
hello enter, i was wondering where u were since u liked lowe so much.. don’t worry thouhg, manny is a-coming!!
Anyone who suggests getting Perez is a better idea than Lowe is a f–king idiot. Period.
Lowe was the #2 guy we had to get. Now we’re going to settle for a #4 because Omar and the Wilpons were too f–king cheap to pay for quality. Thanks a bunch.
Sheets is still out there!
You think we have even a remote chance of getting Sheets?
No. He doesn”t have the right last name.
i completely agree with you..this is ridiculous
Somethings happenin here, what it is ain’t exactly clear……..
What if you found out that no matter who you signed, no matter what you did, that you would not be allowed to even make the WS…
cough,, Cubs,, cough
Write it down, carve it in stone… Baseball is going to push the Cubs all the way to the WS. If you think these types of practices cannot be done. Well then your not paying close enough attention.
Perez is definitely a downgrade from Lowe.
Considering their respective ages and the parks they pitched in? Not by much.
It is when you consider their respective walk totals and the fact that Lowe is an extreme groundballer, so playing in Dodger stadium wouldn’t affect his numbers that much, and Perez is an extreme flyball pitcher so his numbers were probably helped way more by Shea than Lowe’s numbers were by Dodger stadium.
If Lowe wasn’t helped by Dodger’s stadium, why is his road ERA over the last 3 years a pretty poor 4.25?
Also, for the last two years, Shea has played less and less like a pitchers park, especially in regard to HRs, because of the construction of Citi Field and how it changed the wind patterns.
In fact, it was considered a hitters park for HRs in 2008.
I bet Lowe’s ERA next year is closer to 4.00 than what it was last season. Turners field is a hitters park, and Lowe gives up his share of HRs.
Because players usually play better at home in general. The average difference between the home and road era of all pitchers last year was over .5 last year. Pelfrey is also a borderline extreme ground baller and his road ERA was nearly 5 last year. Pitchers usually pitch better at home.
Sorry, I don’t buy that with Lowe. His splits are more extreme and the fact that Dodgers Stadium was the second best pitchers park in the majors last year lends credence to the idea that his ERA is to a large extent influenced by that pitchers park.
Pelfrey is also a poor example to use for home/road splits because he’s still relatively young and developing so all his numbers are subject to varying wildly.
Lets look at some with more veteran experience. You would expect a pricey veteran not to be bothered by pitching on the road apart from park factors …
‘
3-year home/road splits:
Johan — 2.63/3.11
Burnett — 3.87/4.01
CC — 3.14/2.90
Sheets — 3.51/3.41
Lowe — 2.32/4.42
Sorry but Lowe is an exception to the rule and his splits are very rare. You won’t find another starter considered a solid veteran who has such poor home/road splits.
Sheets and CC actually had better ERAs on the road than at home which undermines your theory. A solid consistent veteran pitcher should have close home/road splits unless he pitches in a severe pitchers park most of the time OR a severe hitters park …, or he’s a baby and needs the comforts of home to do well, in which case he’s certainly not solid and doesn’t deserve a big payday,
As I said, I bet Lowe’s home and overall ERA next year is much closer to 4.25 than it is to the artificially low ERA he posted last season.
‘
Omar played this perfectly. The only issue I have so far this offseason with him is why no interest in Sheets? If nothing else, courting Sheets may make Ollie be more flexible.
And I don’t buy that he currently has an injury as he just pitched almost 200 innings … and if he had an injury we’d hear something about it by now.
He should be courting both Sheets and Ollie now and whoever signs first gets the nod.
garland is not better than olie,sheets is but dont know even if the mets are interested in him
I think signing redding was a big mistake.
If we had Lowe and then signed Redding our rotation would be solid. But if we sign Perez and keep Redding at #5, our rotation suffers.
If we sign 2 of Perez, Sheets, Garland/Wolf and knock out Redding I would be happy but if we never signed Redding in the first place that would have made more sense. If we have a solid #2 pitcher than who care if Redding is #5 but if we have Perez at 2 who is not solid then thats not good.
Does that make sense?
Redding has already stated that he is fine with pitching out of the Pen.
aaah, crap!
CASESTREET said about a month ago that we are gonna end up signing ollie and pedro and i laughed my pants off!!!!!
Now, is just not funny becoz tht mgiht be the reality.. say hello to another SEPTEMBER of nervousness and maybe, another choke job if he’s right!!
As long as Pedro is competing for the 5th spot with Redding, Niese and Garcia. I’m not worried.
Pitching depth and an improved bullpen makes our pitching so much better than last year. An innings eater would be ideal to some, but I’d rather try to get lucky with that last spot and get some good pitching over mediocre pitching.
“…frankly, i’m starting to think the Mets may be better off signing both Randy Wolf and Ben Sheets or Jon Garland, than overpaying for perez…”
FRANKLTY MATT YOU DON’T KNOW YOUR A** FROM YOUR ELBOW AND WILL RATIONALIZE ANYTHING THE METS DO AND BE HAPPY WITH IT, BECUASE THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE PAID TO DO.
You have no courage at all.
Yesterday the Mets were a failure if they did not land OP or Lowe, now you’re settling for trash like Wolf, you have no credibility whatsoever.
Dear Omar-
Here’s how to turn around your “C-” of an offseason before it gets even worse:
1. Sign a starter not named Ollie Perez (he can’t be trusted on a long-term deal)
2. Sign Manny Ramirez
3. Sign a decent backup infielder that has some pop (Ray Durham/Alex Cora)
4. Talk to the Wilpons about that stupid patch.
Sincerely, Mets fan
PS Failure to do so will result in your firing
LOL, C of an offseason because we did not sign a 37 year old pitcher to 4 years?
He has been more active than any GM not with the Yankee’s. Bringing in Krod and Putz into a pen that was terrible and bringing in Redding for the #5 into a spot that’s been a revolving door for 3 years.
no offense man..but you are an idiot..you actually think how this team is right now…it can win the division..not to mention the world series?…not a chance…this team is a 3rd place team
eneter, u need to relax bro, seriously, the phillies won the WS with blanton, pedro feliz at 3b, seriously stop…
Idiot, you can’t be non-offensive and call someone an idiot.
Do you think Omar is going to go with Niese and Parnell as the #4-5? Someone will be signed. Omar has 15-20 million left and will spend it somewhere even if it’s in the bargain bin.
thank god matt cerone isn’t the GM of the Mets. you follow your heart way too much.
lately there’s been too much criticism going on here in particular of everything the Mets do. starting with your criticism of the patch all the way to the Mets not getting the player cerone wants. stop throwing internet temper tantrums. PLEASE. i can not imagine that the readership wishes to constantly see a blog about the negatives about their favorite team. if you wish to build a fan base of people who go to the park and boo the Mets you are doing a fine job.
Lowe is older. plain and simple. as a fan of this ballclub I’m tired of big dollars going to older players who run more of a risk of injury. Alou Pedro Hernandez…haven’t we all learned our lesson?
to date the offseason STILL is a success. the Mets will never be the Yankees and pay for every player on their roster. if that’s the club you want then change your affiliation to the club 30 minutes and in a different borough.
respectfully,
Joe
PS in reference to the patch citifield may violate the rules established with MLB regarding advertisers on uniforms. so before you belly ache incessantly abt the ugly patch that doesn’t say citifield…learn the facts
Yo – every stadium is named after a corp these days. that didnt stop any of them ffrom having a nice patch to commerate their new stadium. the mets patch is the worst in history. PERIOD.
Who cares? It’s a stinking patch. Seriously.
First of buddy… Its a joke!!! Get a life. no one is upset that it doesn’t say Citi field! We are laughing at the idiot Photoshop/Illustrator designer who thought that was acceptable and the idiot front office guy who signed off on that.
Redding says he is willing to be the long man. If we get Perez AND Sheets we have a decent rotation. As is we have Johan and a bunch of fours, and that’s IF we get Ollie back.
Well I think a fully healthy Maine can be better than a 4, maybe not much but better, and I think Pelfrey can be a low end 3, though I worry about a decline due to the number of innings he pitched last year. But for the most part I agree.
Yeah, Gina, you’re right. Thanks for keeping me grounded. I’m a bit worried. Maine and Pelfrey are capable of being 2’s but they are also capable of being 4’s…we need to improve somewhere else besides the pen this offseason. I don’t know why we can’t increase our payroll more, we are getting $20 mil per from Citigroup for naming rights.
Resign Pedro, make Redding the long reliever, pick up Wolf, and the hell with Ollie.
Sign Manny!
The Braves got ripped off. As much as I wanted Lowe on this team, I wouldnt have given him that contract either.
There is always that one dumb team every year that overpays for a specific player and ruins it for other teams. Like back when Pedro got that four year deal…….
Oh wait……
nevermind……
i agree that we should not overpay for ollie. but a sheets-wolf/garland combo for virtually the same price is intriguing. the money saved on loosing lowe should go towards manny.
Nostra, we have went back and forth on the money issue. However, one thing is clear, if the Mets went with signing Pedro and Garcia they could afford Manny.
Johan, Pelfrey, Maine, Redding, Pedro, Garcia, Niese might be ok this year with Manny and Delgado on the team.
Wolf and Sheets? With the money they saved by having a 3rd grader armed with nothing more than Microsoft Paint to design the Inaugural Season patch, the Mets should be able to pony up the $$ to sign both Perez and Sheets! I do like the idea of signing Sheets, as he is an elite talent who can be had on the cheap. Could it blow up? Certainly. That said, if he managed to stay healthy for an entire season, it would be the kind of gamble that could win a championship, as that would be a NASTY rotation.
Why the Braves overspend when the next highest bidder is $24 MM lower just makes no sense, especially given how bad this team is gonna be over the next several years. Even with Lowe, I think 78 wins is optimistic for the Bravos. Let’s sign Sheets, and pick up the 1st rounder for Ollie. Who would’ve ever thought that the guy who started the All-Star game would be cheaper (in terms of draft picks and $$) than inconsistent Ollie??
That was awesome. I needed a good laugh. Thank you.
If we sign Ollie, i am really hoping Omar looks at another pitchr for #5 with Redding going to the bullpen….because until Ollie and Maine can prove they can last more than 5 .1 innings on a consistent basis, we are going to need a solid long man. i say sign Ollie and an innings eater for #5
‘I’m not sure he’s totally worth it’ (referencing 4 years/60mil).
Uh, I KNOW he’s not worth that. Good riddance.
No thanks to Ollie – I’d rather take the draft picks for him than guarantee him a 4-year deal. I’ll take Sheets for 2-years, Pedro (or another cheap option) for 1-year. Redding is a capable 6th starter/long-man out of the bullpen. I think, ideally, Niese is best off with another year in AAA and can serve as our 7th starter in an emergency.
Santana
Sheets
Maine
Pelfrey
Pedro/other
Redding (spot starter / long reliever)
Niese (AAA / call-up when he’s more ready or as an emergency starter)
I am fine with that. Or bump Redding to the #5 spot and sign a left-handed reliver to the spot starter / long reliever role, like a Dennys Reyes.
Ummm, I liked it until Denny Reyes. How would he help as a spot starter, long relief?
Ollie has to be an option, and probably the key option. But i think you need to Pair him with someone. So Ollie and Sheets or Ollie and Garland.
People hate garland, but as a 5th starter there won’t be much better in ALL of baseball let alone the NL.
Perez and Sheets is option #1, and Perez and Garland is option #2. This will push Redding to a Long man, and he will mop up the games ollie and maine come out early, as well as supply the guy who is #5 if someone gets hurt.
Ollie is a MUST. I believe Heyman when he says Omar wants him over Lowe, which explains their dull efforts on signing him. Pick up Ollie and save some money, it will be a better long term signing and you know what to expect.
It can only go up for Perez.
Ollie is not a MUST. He is slightly better than what’s left on the market. Not worth giving him more than 3/30 and losing the 2 picks we would get if he walks.
It can only go up? Based on what? He could easily stay the exact same.
Right, but the chances of him taking a nosedive in terms of performance is slim.
I think we will be OK. The big question is John Maine. If he is healthy, Omar is the kind of GM that can find scraps and fill them in.
If Maine is not healthy, we have a big problem.
Even still, money is better spent on reliable hitters than pitchers. All the time. Pitchers break down so fast. A 4-year deal for a pitcher is a major risk that most clubs don’t want to take anymore.
On another point, I’m sure the “collusion” point will be raised, but why don’t these teams start announcing they will NOT deal with Scott Boras?
If a few teams state this as policy, they may miss out on some free agents, but after a short time other teams will start ignoring him too. Then players will drop him as their agent.
He is bad for the game.
Jerry
Luckily Maine isn’t recovering from a serious injury to his shoulder/elbow etc…it was just to shave some bonespurs down in his back, so odds are he will be 100% in April.
I just checked out both Oliver Perez and Ben Sheets’ stats over the last 4 years…
now I know Sheets has this cloud of injury surrounding him, but his innings totals are actually HIGHER than Oli’s over the last 4 years.
Over the last 4 seasons:
Perez: 35-35 / 586.2 Innings
Sheets: 41-30 / 601.4 Innings
Sheets career ERA is 3.72, whereas Perez’s is 4.39.
Each player has his positives and negatives. Would you rather have Sheets for 2 years, or Perez for 4?
I would go with Sheets at this point.
Depends on if Sheets is currently healthy. Remember he could not pitch in September.
This is true. Wasn’t it a strained elbow? Anyone know his current health status?
It’s a gamble either way. I would still take sheets. Perez is so inconsistent, I don’t think I could handle him for four years.
Also, the Mets watched Sheets pull himself from a September game after 5 strong innings, a game the Mets wound up winning.
His next start he took the mound and pitched a shutout. If there was ever an explanation for his previous short start, I never saw it. And I looked.
I think the Mets may see Sheets as a guy who doesn’t always want the ball.
I absolutely think that Sheets is the better signing. As you indicate, despite the injury past, Sheets is not exactly Prior. He might not throw 200 IP (although he came close last year), but he should be good for about 160.
So the question I ask, (and asked on my blog) is 34 starts made by Perez better than 24 or so of Sheets and then another ten of Niese? I don’t think so.
It’s funny that Cerrone cites how more than half of Metsblog readers prefer Perez to Lowe and then in the next sentence states, as if it was some undeniable fact, that “lowe is a better fit for the Mets than Oliver Perez”.
maybe cerrone should stop obsessing over Francesa, because he’s turning into him. mets blog new name… “Cerrone’s Corner” or maybe “Matt and the Mets”
im glad i am not the only one who feels this way. this blog was a great site to check out for quick news. now it is filled with far too much personal preference. i always thought in journalism a reporter should be partial?
It’s a blog. Not journalism.
I’m just happy that he’s giving an opinion either way, even if I disagree with it. That’s pretty unusual for this site.
if you dont feel that a blog like this is some form of modern journalism you are not forward thinking. journalism as defined by
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
the profession of reporting or photographing or editing news stories for one of the media
and if you don’t think modern journalism has any opinions in it, you’re not watching fox news.
If you don’t want to see matt’s opinion then don’t read the italicized words. problem solved.
I think Matt means in terms of Lowe’s being a groundball pitcher. Still, you can argue that a four-year contract “fits” better on a 28-yo than a 36-yo pitcher.
Just to be fair to Matt,
“this is a shame…it’s a shame in that lowe is a better fit for the Mets than Oliver Perez, i think…”
He’s saying it right there, it’s his OPINION.
And even right there at the bottom of the page…
“MetsBlog.com publishes both rumor and opinion, as well as accurately reported information from other sources.”
If you don’t like his opinions, stick to the non-italicized text and you’ll be just fine partner.
Actually, I find Matt has started tending too much towards the commenters on this site, and less to actual intelligent writers/bloggers or even his own observations.
the commenters on here are not a valid representation of the whole Mets fan community.
i feel almost the opposite way. even though many people come here for information, we forget that the point of a blog is the free exchange of many different viewpoints on a given topic. to me, it was disconcerting when the blog partnered with sny because it then became fair to call into question the motivation behind the opinion. it has seemed to me though that they don’t keep the leash on too tight, as matt is still critical of the organization on occasion which i think is good
Omar thanks again for another year of suffering!!!
yes but we have that great patch for the uniforms
3rd place finish
Because we did not get Lowe?
Do you honestly think Omar will just sit on the money now?
phillies are probably laughing at us right now..im laughing at them with how cheap they are
hey, all the fans calling for a 3rd place finish, I guess we can expect not to see you here during game threads or cheering them on at games, right?
Just checking
absolutely…you actually feel fine with the team right now?..offense and pitching?
Offense but you are an idiot.
Again, do you honestly think Omar is going to say, “Well dang, missed Lowe. We have about 18-20 million left to spend but I will just sit on it and make no other improvements.”?
what is he doing now?..have you heard anything about them being in the offense category right now?..no…is the 3/30 going to get it done for perez?..no…perez is boras’ client…you see what just happened with lowe…if we are that cheap looking at perez and lowe..i cant WAIT to see what omar looks at for offense..ohhh wow alex cora!!…please
It really is a stretch arguing with you because you are incapable of rational thought. So he does not get Perez. Then he will still spend the money somewhere. He’s going to spend 15-20 million regardless.
shame that there are so many fans (and i use this word loosely with them) out there
you are very ignorant if you think this team is going anywhere…i love the mets…however anyone thinking that so far letting lowe get away..and i dont want to hear hes too old…blah blah blah…hes better than perez…and i dont want to see stats posted…now we will settle for perez in the TWO SPOT….and then our offense..please..
You have a lot of nerve coming on being so close minded and simple to go around calling everyone an idiot and ignorant. That my friend would be the definition of stupidity.
Well said TRS86
who thinks this team is first place material?
closer to 1st place than 3rd place
Ignorance… thy middle name is enterkrod.
ohhh and if omar wasnt willing to spend 15 on lowe..who is he going to spend it on?…i dont see this team going anywhere..im sorry..i love the mets…but right now…i just dont see it…now if omar makes a couple of moves before spring training arrives…then great…but right now…i dont see them contending..
So again because Omar did not over pay for Lowe, he won’t spend anything else and will just pocket that money?
Maybe he gets Ollie and Wiggy for that same price.
Maybe he gets Garland and Abreu
Sheets and Wolf….
We have no idea until the money is spent, the only thing we know for certain is that the money will be spent somewhere. THEN you can come back and say that he made the wrong decisions. Right now it’s pointless.
Who said there done shopping, its jan 13th? You think any team is done yet? I’m mad they didn’t get lowe, but I’m not sure I would have spent that money if it was mine, so i can’t blame them, so move on get someone else. If lowe signed with the braves for 3 year 40 mil I’d be upset, I’m not overly thrilled with perez, but lets see what happens, we still have a month before pitchers and catchers, and 10+ weeks before the season starts.
We’re not calling for a third place finish. But second place is probably the best case right now.
BUT Omar can make more improvements. We can still put together a first place team.
Omar will make more moves, he HAS to do something, but to not overpay for Lowe is a GOOD Move.
People say this stuff about the team year after year, and yea, we didnt’ finish in 1st the past 2 years, but the reason for last years collapse primarily (bullpen) has been addressed, and i’m sure he will still address the holes left.
I’m ignorant because I can see the Mets going somewhere with Perez in the starting rotation..
odd, seems to me they almost went somewhere last year with that rotation + a terrible bullpen, so whos the ignorant one now?
What does right now have to do with anything? You can’t place the team right now. Again, Omar has never sit on money. He is going to spend it somewhere. If we can’t get Lowe then he will try and get Perez, if not Perez there are plenty of options. It’s not like he is going to go with the very exact team.
last time i checked offense is still the same..we get perez back..1-4 is the same…UNLESS niese beats out redding..then its 1-5 that are the same..the only difference is the bullpen
last I checked the offense scored the 2nd most runs (tied), and was #4 in BA last year…. I’m sick of the talk about the offense, yea it needs some tweaking, but an overahaul is not necessary….
which needed the upgrade(reg bullpen) and got one…29 blown saves remember that
and delgado is another year older…hopefully he produces like the second half…we have murphy gonna be starting at the beginning of the year…he can run out of gas…i dont see tatis having a year like he was last year before he got hurt..we still have castillo..we have schnieder behing the plate..
enterkrod you make your points about the mets…but the same arguments can be made about every team in the mlb about anticipated production. Everyone has those problems…
what team can’t go through their order and say the SAME type of things though?
Will Victorino have the same season
will WERTH have the same season?
Is the Jimmy Rollins we saw most of the season, the REAL JRoll?
Will Utley come back healthy?
Will not having Pat the Bat hurt them?
See, this game is fun, what team is next? :)
Agreed, all teams have issues and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the phils take a step back. There rotation isn’t all that great outside of hamels, who’s fragile and there bullpen is inconsistent especially with them missing there best set up man for 50 games. Knock on wood, but i can’t forsee schneider and castillo being as bad as they were last year. those are our big holes, and if delgado really falls off, he’s easy to trade in the last year of his contract. Who else in the NL can you look at and say right now on Jan 13th, “wow they’re scary.” The cubs, maybe, the phils maybe, but thats it.
Wow.
Has everyone forgotten 2008? It wasn’t our rotation that killed us, it was our bullpen. We are going into 2009 with one of the top three bullpens in the NL – argueably, the best. If we brought back the entire rotation from last year (which if we did, you’d have to expect more out of the #5 spot), and this new bullpen, we would have won 95+ games last year.
Our greatest need, by far – BY FAR, has been addressed.
We lost to the Phillies by 3 games. You don’t think we can get 3 more wins from Johan with this new bullpen alone????
People need to relax, and get some perspective. We are going to have a very competitive team in 2009 – with resources to improve at the trading deadline.
Lowe was NOT the answer at $15M per.
Ha, nobody has any idea at this point what the finishing order in the NL East is going to be in 2009. Everything is pure speculation. Perhaps informed speculation, but speculation all the same. Anyone who tells you they can accurately predict the correct finishing order today is simply jerking you around.
Lowe could be a good addition, but not at that price. I’m not devastated over it.
Sixteen words that basically capture the whole situation. All that needs to be said, really.
If this doesnt lead to a manny signing, the ownership owes its fans a HUGE apology. At least we have a nice patch to look forward to on next year’s uniform
LMAO!!!
not even manny..although he is the top choice…but you need a big bat..this team isnt going anywhere…
I’m still waiting for my apology for the little green onion packages not being available for the upper deck. What? Just because I paid for a cheaper seat I don’t get onions on my hotdog? Ridiculous.
Count me on the Sheets bandwagon. I’ll take the draft picks and let perez ruin someone other team’s bullpen.
Well there’s no doubt that Lowe is a better pitcher than Ollie. The only positive that comes is you get a younger pitcher on a four year deal.
i’m glad and upset at the same time, most of us here have seen this team suffer last place finish after last place finish, now we more relevant and got one of the most anxy fan based in the sports, jesus, ppl, seriously relax…. we average 90 wins the past 3 seasons, we are seem to be spoiled or something, we got better, agree we need to upgrade the offense and the SP but we need to relax a bit..
“Anxy”?
“we are seem to be spoiled”?
English, people. We try to communicate in English here.
notice how far ur joke got you when no one paid attention?? mamague**
so our rotation right now is Johan, Pelf, Maine, Redding, Niese? abandon ship!
Because Omar is just going to sit on the money now?
You guys just can’t think rationally.
FONGU:
HAVE YOU SEEN HOW MANY OF US ARE NOW POSTING ABOUT BEN SHEETS!!!???
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY-I’M NOT ANTI-
BEN SHEETS! HOWEVER, HOW DO WE(THE
FANS)KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT STATE OF THIS SOMETIMES GOOD BUT OFTEN INJURED STARTING PITCHER IS?
AND WHY IS THERE NO INTEREST IN THIS
GUY FROM ANYONE ELSE?DOES THIS NOT
PROVIDE A CLUE THAT SOMETHING MAY
WELL BE VERY WRONG WITH HIS HEALTH?
Idon’t get you, your not anti sheets but yet u critizime for wanting to bring him here??come on.. make your mind..
Either that or the contract he is seeking.
now is like we have to get a guy like him, we have enough to get him and garlnad, we are obviously not gonna spend much on offense so might as well go all out on pitching..
Neither!-Just trying to point out it aint realistic
since the guy suffered a torn muscle around
his pitching elbow 3months ago and likely won’t be helping anyone for a while. further,
you cant give the guy more than a one yr deal
because he’s always hurt. So, why bother.
Yes, giving Ollie a 3or4 yr deal @ whatever
would be overpaying but what are the options
here? SP aside, Sign Manny!
lol, ok fongu.. i agree wit u and i’ve said it before, but is time that if we’re gonna take a risk we take it on a young and very good if healthy player, not a old as he-ll and ok player.. and agree again.. SIGN MANNY..
Alex, your thoughts on Omar just walking
away from Boras completely if Ollie wont
take the 3/30 offer and he goes out and signs
Abreu, Garland and maybe Odalis Perez who
O should have gone after anyway instead of
Redding?
TRS and u sold me on abreu, so now i won’t be mad, but i think we need to part wit op, i’m all for bringing new blood to pitch here, gives the offense a new mindset and i helps the team mentally i think.. garland and or sheets to me is better..
Has anybody stopped to think that maybe this may be a blessing in disguise???
The braves just signed a 36yr old pitcher to a 4 yr contract for 60 mill
We still have 20-30 mill left to play around with…granted not alot of great talent left but we are certainly more able to fill up some question marks with that kind of money than being locked up with the 60 mil obligation to lowe.
agreed — and look at the fact that now the Braves have a large part of their (small) budget locked up for the next four years for a man who’s been an innings eater. Maybe he’s durable now, but when he goes down, it’ll probably be for good, and there’s no guarantee that will be 4 years from now.
Bid High, Buy Lowe…. Honestly how could you want a guy who’s going to be 41 at the end of his contract over a guy who’s going to be 31 at the end… sure Ollie is erratic sometimes, but he’s shown improvement, and has stepped up in big games in the past, remember the ‘06 NLCS…
Of couse i have strange ideas about the pitching situation anyway, i’d be perfectly happy to sign Pedro to a 1 year deal to be our #5 starter.
I second this. Can’t miss a 26 year old lefty who has proven himself.
REMEMBER GAME 162 IN 2008??
The one he volunteered to pitch on three days rest? You’re right, the guy’s a loser.
of course it was 3 days rest, coz he couldn’t get out of the third inning 3 days ealier agains the cubs… what’s ur point??
Give Pettitte and Sheets a call, see what they want. Pettitte would benefit going to the NL and he’s known as a big game pitcher when it comes to the postseason.
Omar, meet Scott Boras’s pocket because now that you screwed up the Lowe signing that’s exactly where you are with Ollie…I’m telling you you’re better to find your arm elsewhere and deal with Boras in order to sign Manny. Otherwise you’re going to get played again. Like others said, at least we have the awesome patch to look at!!!!
dude, this guy is NOT worth that kind of money!
He will be like 41 years old at the end of this contract.
I for one am very happy he went elsewhere.
My point is about leverage, not Lower per se. Now Boras can pump up the numbers on Perez and force the team to overpay for an inconsistent pitcher, which there is no denying that Ollie is. Once again, it seems wise to go after a pitcher represented by a different agent (Pettitte, Wolf, Garland–I may be wrong about these guys not being Boras clients) and deal with Boras in order to sign Manny….
Who else is interested in Perez besides the Mets? I can’t find anything anywhere about this. If the answer is “nobody” then that could give us some leverage.
Deadpanwalking, with all due respect, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the Scott Boras school of negotiating, but there is always a mystery team in the mix, and it will happen with Ollie. And as much as I HATE Boras, he is masterful at what he does and can smell weakness from a mile away. Since Omar did not blink first and sign Lowe, he is left emptyhanded with Ollie as his “best” option. So what do you think Boras is going to do, give him a discount?!?!
This is why you go after a non-Boras pitcher such as Pedro, Pettitte, Wolf, Sheets, etc and go to Boras for Manny since it is very clear that NO TEAM is interested at this point, and based on the press, Manny would accept 3 year/$75M deal. That would make signing Pedro for a one year sensible since he could help with Manny.
That’s what I would do if I were Omar, but then again, I wouldn’t have gave Castillo a multi-year deal.
4 years/60 million? Atlanta, you can HAVE him. Basically, they replaced Smoltz with Lowe. A MAJOR downgrade.
I’d bring in Sheets & Colon
It’s starting to look more and more like Pedro might be back next year. As I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, I’ll take him back, but only if we can get Manny in the outfield.
Pettite and Sheets would be GREAT and may cost you about 3 million more than just Lowe and would be 1 year instead of 4.
So then you’re going with a 6 man rotation? They have no intention of putting Redding in the pen.
Not true at all. Two things point to the notion.
1) His contract has incentives for both starting and relieving. Why would they put the relief clause in there if it were not an option?
2) He has publically said that he did not care if it was a starting or relief role. Thus why would the notion be out there otherwise?
Point taken.
I would give Pettitte one year plus an option year and Sheets 2 years loaded with incentives. I’m on the fence about Sheets since he seems to always be hurt and with Maine never able to stay healthy, Mets need a guy more durable (Pettitte) than Sheets.
We’ll see what Omar has up his sleeve.
Why should this surprise anybody. Omar had a great 1st half off season and a terrible 2nd half. Sound familiar?
The only difference is that the second half of the 2008 season is actually over.
Let’s look at his offers:
Mets: 3 years for 36M
Braves: 4 years for 60M + swining and dining.
If nothing else, the Braves appear to have self-esteem issues. 4M is one thing, but 24M is another.
I expect that the Mets offer to Lowe was closer to 3/40. The sticking point was most likely the 4th year as it should have been.
I think the Braves thought their only chance was a quick strike — a high exploding offer.
No Pedro please. Omar just put the Coupon book that they gave you down and GO GET MANNY…..PLEASE GIVE US A CHANCE TO WIN IT ALL. HE’S THE ONLY REAL DIFFERENCE MAKER LEFT.
I don’t get something.. Why is everyone so high on Wolf? I can’t really be high on a guy with a career WHIP of 1.38!
Only as a cheap 5th starter to push Redding into the pen.
I don’t think Wolf is coming cheap though… he wants 3 and 30. That’s not to say he’ll get it, but his asking price is high for what he offers.
He will be luck to get 2/15.
I remember last year when Philly fans were upset that all they got was Lidge while we got Santana. We just got 2 closers! I refuse to be negative on this….Lowe is not worth 4 years. I am so glad to hear he is not an option anymore. We will get Ollie back and I think they can turn this thing around….I have to believe that. We may all be surprised.
Ollie + Manny and go to war.
We can keep Castillo around, Jerry is open to batting him leadoff, which I hope translates to him eventually batting 9th, where he belongs. Although I think id rather just have Awful Reyes back, neither of them can hit, but at least Reyes played phenomenal defense, and Jose seemed to play better when he was mentoring Argenis.
By the way, Peavy is only 27.
I still would not mind trading Maine, Murphy and Niese to Pads for Peavy. (I would add additional prospects not named FMart).
The would give us two young aces:
Santana
Peavy
Pelfrey
Redding
Sure you need another arm, but that acquisition can be a 3 or 4 quality at low dollar cost. Perhaps Wolfe could be gotten low, or perhaps even Pedro could be a good choice.
Only problem is peavy doesn’t want to pitch
in new york.
Are some of you retarded? Why are you freaking out? You sound like women on PMS.
The Mets had a good offense last year. Their SP was pretty good. Their bullpen stunk. Why are you so scared of the big bad Phillies? Replace Burrell with Ibanez and all of a sudden they are 10x better? Hahahahaha. Rollins is not going to repeat 2007. Their offense is going to be the same as last year.
Do you realize we would have won the division big-time with a decent bullpen? Why are you CONVENIENTLY ignoring that fact?
Look, I want to improve the team just as much as the next guy. But to say we are going to finish 3rd without Lowe and Manny is retarded. Bring back Perez, and we have the same team as last year but with way better bullpen help.
That alone puts us in the running. I’m not guaranteeing first place, but I don’t see what facts you can point to when you say this is a third place team. You are letting your emotions cloud your judgment.
The only thing to worry about is Delgado reverting to crap. If that happens, the offense will be in a little bit of trouble. Might need a trading deadline bat in that case.
murphy/tatis…and i like murphy…but he came up halfway last year..not even halfway..can he produce the whole year the way he did for 131 AB’s last year?…castillo at second still..schnieder at catcher..
eneter, if u weren’t so bitter when u post i’d actually agree wit u, u make valid points, u just need to relax with the “idiot and ignorant posts” to everybody in here, with that being said, we do need somebody legit i gree, but other than manny and sheets who’s really out there right now, and do u honestly believe that the phillies ARE THAT MUCH better than us?? it took 29 blown saves from us in order for them to win the division, and the braves are getting old not better.. so how are we any worse than they are??
I agree, Murphy, Castillo, schneider add in Delgado (cause which one shows up) and you have 4 spots in the order which are ? marks.
pitching is key, but we need one more solid bat. Sign a LF and work Murphy in all over the diamond as a backup at 1B, 3B LF, and you’ll get him 300ABs.
Manny would really be a nice piece to add in.
Castillo and Schneider are not question marks. They will be terrible, like last year. Which is fine. We did well on offense with them being terrible last year.
Murphy I expect to be a serviceable hitter again. Delgado is the real big question – because if he (unlike the above three) loses a lot of production, the offense is in trouble.
While I do agree that on offense we need something more stable in LF or an upgrade at 2B/C, you still don’t get the point that we will have at least 1 more SP and then maybe more offense.
If Omar worst case goes out and JUST brings in Pedro for the SR then he would still have about 15 million+ to spend on other parts. Maybe he goes and gets Manny. Maybe Hudson and Abreu. We have no idea yet.
i agree keith. I dont know why people are freaking out the way they are. Signing lowe does not guarentee anything…neither would that have if we signed him. The bullpen blew 29 saves last year…i think its pretty clear that with putz and rodriguez that number will go down significantly. We just need some serviceable pitching at this point. The offense did fine last year…Delgado is the key obviously but there is still time and now MONEY to possibly address this..money that we wouldnt have if the mets bit at the 4/60 contract.
Agreed. I think we should be able to pick up one more SP, and either a 1-yr OF or even another SP like Sheets for 1-yr.
How many good pitchers do our “rivals” really have? How are we saying these other teams are so much better than us. Stop it. Its Lowe. He is a #3 starter.
Looks like Omar still has his heart with the Nationals. With only 1 or 2 more pieces of the puzzle to fill to get to the playoffs, we will end up as a 4th place team. Thanks Omar!
The good part of Lowe going somewhere else is that now we have a little money to play with. Whether the next sp we get is Ollie, Garland, Wolf, or even Pedro, we will now have extra money to fix a position or add another reliever. It has been rumored that Hudson will eventually sign a 1yr deal.
SILVER LINING:
The Braves, who we shouldn’t be competing against to win the division now have a better pitcher to throw at the Phillies and Marlins.
We should NOT overpay for inconsistent Ollie. Sheets is probably a better risk, even with the injury factor. Especially considering that we’d wind up giving a 2nd rounder for Sheets (since 1st rounder goes for KRod) AND recouping a 1st rounder for someone else signing Ollie. If we sign Ollie, no 1st rounder for us. I don’t know why no one is mentioning this angle of it. This is precisely why signing Lowe or Sheets would rank higher for me than Ollie. Cerrone, you need to make more mention of this little tidbit.
This is a joke. What are we doing. Talking about bringing back a guy who latest 5 innings against the marling when we needed him most last year. We blew it with Lowe and losing him to the braves is a disgrace… And the fact were stuck with Castillo is just as big a joke. SIgn Hudson and eat the money. If fred doesnt have money just sell the team do us all a favor. This team is going no where
Castillo will have a better year than Hudson.
although i dont agree with selling the team..lol..i love the mets..they just make me really angry…because we are a new york sports team and we act like LESS THAN what the braves payroll is..
Because we did not overpay for Lowe? Again, Omar will spend the money somewhere. Just don’t know where yet.
U Mean the HUDSON river??
If anyone thinks it’s normal to pitch so poorly on the road vs. at home, think again. Especially for a veteran like Lowe, you would expect road situations not to rattle him …
3-year home/road splits:
Johan — 2.63/3.11
Burnett — 3.87/4.01
CC — 3.14/2.90
Sheets — 3.51/3.41
Lowe — 2.32/4.42
I think this demonstrates clearly why Lowe’s low ERA was so much a product of Dodgers Stadium.
He is certainly not worth the contract he just got.
I say sign Sheets or Ollie who are better bets for the long term — yes, even Sheets with his injury history.
You are right. Lowe was overrated and a product of a good pitchers park and weak nl west.
But there are a lot of kiddies on here that don’t really know much when it comes to building a team.
More 3-year home/road splits:
Webb — 3.16/3.11
Pettitte — 4.42/4.11
If you’re a “big game” pitcher who many say Lowe was, you don’t get rattled by pitching on the road.
you have to sign ollie, we need more lefty starters. even if you can get sheets you have four rightys in a row? how are we going to pitch to the phillies 18 times a year with one lefty starter and one lefty reliever? get ollie and sheets….cut castillo
Of all the arguments to sign Ollie, this is the worst. The Mets play 144 games against teams not named the Phillies. Something tells me Ben Sheets, who is a much better pitcher than ollie and actually pitched more innings than him last year, can figure out a way to beat the Phillies.
Please freddie coupon… sell to Mark Cuban. You don’t have the dough or desire to own a NY team.
What does the number $850 million mean to you?
What should it mean? Freddie gets us taxpayers to foot the bill on his new cashcow. In return we get penny pinching, insane costs to see a game and a heavier reliance on his network…. Thank Freddie. I’m hoping Omar pulls this out, but the Mets need to set markets instead of doing whatever Bud Selig tells them to (i.e.- stop drafting based on the posting system)
The Mets had the highest payroll in the National League, by about $20 million, which is a lot of money.
The two major league teams that spent more, the Yankees and the Tigers, did not make the postseason.
The Mets’ competition is not the Yankees. It is the rest of the National League. The Yankees are not the proper comparison. The Yankees’ spending is driven partly because the division has another big spender — the Red Sox. What matters (if payroll matters at all) in MLB is what you are spending relative to the teams with which you are competing to get to the postseason.
That the Mets spent about 15% more than any other team in the National League in 2008 would seem inconsistent with all the “Freddie Coupons” rhetoric.
The whining about the Mets’ willingness to spend is irrational.
sheets is a much better signing than Perez and will probably be less years, less money and less risk.
I see no possible situation that Perez gets any better than he is right now. Sheets on the other hand is an ace and could give the Mets 2 pitchers with an ERA under 3.
Sure he’s RH but i’ll take 28-30 starts of Sheets over 32-34 Starts of the LH Perez any time any place
I am honestly embarrased to be in this blog right now and see how many mets fans are calling for omar’s head after not getting a “NOT SO GOOD IF NOT IN DODGER STADIUM” pitcher… he is not that good and omar did the right thing, while i think he’s bottom 5 gm’s IN THE GAME we can’t bash him on this one, we still got 5 of the best baseball players in the game.. now our bullpen is better, we need an upgrade in offense and SP but come on guys.. if this wasn’t NY we wouldn’t sound like this, milwaukee lost sabathia and haven’t done nothing after making the playoffs, how u think they feel?? please, relax guys, lowe is not that good to even argue about!!! STOP IT!! i rather have sheets in the mound than him ANY DAY!!
Cant agree more Alex. Forget about Lowe at 4/60
i completly understand and thats why i took a looooooooong break because it was getting rediculous the comments on here…might be time for another break until the season starts…
Lowe is a consistent pitcher who has not had any major health problems but he’s 36 and NOT dominant. The Braves overpaid for him in dollars and years. Boras does it again, amazing.
Especially amazing he got the Braves to do it. I would have expected the Mets or Yanks.
I basically feel the way about this as I did with Zito’s signing. I absolutely wanted the Mets to do it up until the point where another team came in and completely overpaid. I don’t think this is as egregious as the Zito signing, but the Braves did overpay.
Now go and get Sheets, who is better than Lowe, just more of a health risk.
yup and lets not over pay for Ollie either.
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!
If the Mets don’t pick up a front line pitcher, they must get MANNY so this way at least they can win as many games as if they contracted a top pitcher……also, MANNY should be signed by the mets because they deserve to give us a winning team…..not a team that just teases us…….been a Mets fan from day one……but if they short change us I will not go to any more of there gasmes….If the Yankees can do it so can the penny picthing Mets do it…..I hope there other fans will boycot going to the games as I will.
keep telling yourself that. you’ll be back
sweet
one less person to battle citi tickets for.
stay away
Did anyone else notice the Braves starting rotation consists of all RHP? Doesn’t that handicap them from the start?
the japanese guy is a lefty.
isnt he a reliever
Cheapsmets,
You are dead on- couldn’t have said it better myself. And you’re right about the Mets initial offer. Making such a cheap, pathetic, lowball initial offer was what drew the Braves and other teams in. If the Mets had offered decent money, aka 14 million for 3 years, in the first place- it would have changed the whole scope of the negotiation and we may have gotten him and/or scared a few other teams off. The Mets are in a financial position where they can easily scare 95% of other teams off, but they want to pinch every penny they can. Look what the Yankees do- they don’t p*ssy foot around, they SET the market and aggressively obtain what they want. The Mets just pinch pennies and pray.
Yeah, I say 3rd or 4th place, especially when you factor in that this team still has zero chemistry- you’re bringing back the exact same poisoned team. All you’ve done is swap one top 4 closer for another and add Putz. What happened to all the talk at the end of the year about how this team desperately needed a leader or two? Or some grinders/dirt dogs? What happened to that notion? You are going to tell me they are going to bring back the exact same offense that withered yet again down the stretch last year, and could not get a big hit to save it’s life? What ever happened to tall that talk about finding a leader? Delgado’s a great leader, yeah- led the Mets to utter failure the last 3 years. And yesterday, he came out and said he wants another catcher. Great teammate.
But seriously, I want to know…why did the notion of obtaining a few leaders, or at the very least some grinders/gamers, disintegrate? Why are people on this blog brainwashed into thinking they can bring back the same exact offense/same team with the exception of adding Putz and a bad starter in Redding?
Somebody please answer my question about the leaders.
How can you predict that this team with finish in 3rd or 4th? There is no way the Phillies bullpen puts up duplicate numbers next year where they were 48 for 48 in save oppurtunities. They blow 2 of those games and the Mets are in the playoffs and not the Phils. If Wagner stayed healthy they would have also won the Division. Anyway, the offense was not the problem and hopefully a full year of a healthy Church will be an improvement. Maybe castillo can get find some of his old form and be an improvement to the 8th hole. The Mets dismantled the weakest link last year, trading away Heilman, Smith, Schoe and bringing in new blood. Sure Delgado could revert back to the beginning of last season but to say this team is doomed because they lost lowe is ridiculous.
Omar was a genius for being patient with k-rod and lowballing him but an idiot for trying to do the same thing with Lowe? You can’t have it both ways! Even if the Mets offered up 3 yrs and 15 mil, how do you know the Braves run away scared when they signed him for 4 yrs? If the Mets lose out on Perez or Sheets than i’d be worried but i’m fine with Perez as the #4 starter on this team.
LOOK, I don’t really think our offense went cold or our chemistry is bad. our pen blew 28 games and that takes a toll on the whole team and puts pressure on everyone. It also magnifies every at bat and every mistake. I feel that with a new pen, like the one we have, we will be in much better shape. I would ike to see a catcher that bast more than 225 and a new guy at second or the right guy at first, but, I dont really have problems with the team we have. I think our rotation is solid and our pen is awsome, and 2009 is out year. A new stadium and new pen 2009 will be waht we all thought 2007 should have been. LETS GO METS !!!!!
You’re absolutely correct. I have been saying the same thing as well.
What the hell is Omar doing? Delgado should not have been re-signed, I don’t car how many homers he MAY hit if he decides he likes it here again.
Castillo? Just dump him. i can’t believe he is still our starting 2nd baseman!
Leftfield-WTF? Tatis? Omar couldn’t find anyone better than this fossil?
Why haven’t we signed Wiggy? Gabe Kapler? Traded for someone?
Omar says he’s not in the market for a position player!? We should be in the market for a new GM if thats what he thinks.
Lowe should have been ours, period.
I find it hard to believe that the majority of people here voted that they prefer Perez for 4 years over Lowe.
Oliver Perez is mediocrity defined.
Then again these are the same folks that want us to sign Manny Clubhouse Cancer.
The Mets are screwed with Omar as the GM. The bozo can’t walk and chew gum at the same time.
Lowe to the Braves is the best thing that could’ve happened to the Mets. Pedro was better than Lowe ever was and look how well the 4 year contract worked out with him . . . and fans want to give 4 years to Lowe?!?!?!?
While I understand fans’ frustration with Perez’s inconsistency, his numbers have been better than John Maine each of the last two years yet everyone loves John Maine . . . You look at some of the best lefties in the history of the game and they usually take longer to develop. Koufax, Randy Johnson, etc were all inconsistent and wild until around 30. If we sign Perez to a 4 year deal, I expect that he’ll be our ace or number two for the last two years of that deal. I’d actually prefer if we had a club option for a 5th year, too. A top two of Santana and Perez could become the most fearsome one-two in baseball.
I’m not saying Perez WILL become a great pitcher. Anyone who follows baseball knows that there are no guarantees . . . I’m just expressing my opinion that I believe Perez has the upside to be great and he’s been good for a few years now. I’d rather have him than Lowe any day.
86_revisited, you are clueless ! You better check your facts before making comments about Sandy Koufax not coming into his own until age 30. Sandy Koufax RETIRED at age 30 ! And the fact that you would mention his name in comparison to an under-achieving pitcher like Perez is an absolute joke.
has Smoltz signed with the braves I doubt they would of been desperate to spend 60 million on Lowe, that is the reason they jumped in.
How long was this deal out there and just the last few days the Braves decided to jump in, they jumped in the same afternoon that Smotlz signed with someone else, get with it.
No one could have seen Smolts going to the Sox. That’s what made the Braves go so high for Lowe.
yo dude, keep it posi.
They’ve been talking about Oliver Perez’s “potential” for 4-5 years now. The guy is a headcase, and the Mets are the only team that’s interested. Shouldn’t that tell you people anything? Plus again…I do not want to bring back the exact same poisoned team that already has King Poison Delgado on it.
The Mets are the only team interested because other teams can’t afford to reach his supposed contract demands. He was looking at 5 for $80, if the Mets stick with their supposed 3 for $30 than you’ll see other teams enter the picture.
Where’s the post in which Matt gloats about having successfully predicted this all along. . . ? Oh right! He didn’t!!!
Well, in fairness, no one could have predicted this kind of panic move from the Bravos, and Matt predicted successfully that it would take four years . . . just not at that amount, and not from a team other than the Mets.
I think he’s right on that this guy is now overpaid . . . for starting pitching, what else is new? It’s just that with Lowe, the age factor predominates in my mind. Fresh off getting nothing from Pedro but supposed “credibility” and a lot of misplaced hope and resources, I’d hestitate to commit $60 to a guy who is going to be 40 at the end of the deal. If you can shave off about $15M and give the same deal to Ollie, that’s a nice little contract for a useful player that you save. Say what you will about Perez, but Lowe is no more a staff savior than he is.
Dunn is still asking for 4 years 56M Wow
Saw that and it’s exactly why he is not signed. He MIGHT get 3/30.
Sheets would make our rotation nasty. Santana and Sheets would be one of the best 1-2 in all of baseball.
And before people say “Sheets is always injured” he pitched more innings than Ollie last season in 3 less starts.
THANK YOU!!!!
GET BEN SHEETS!!!
yes but look, milwaukee makes the postseason and sheets is nowhere to be found. its gunna sting pretty bad when we get to the playoffs and redding is on the staff and not sheets.
He broke down at the end of the year. What’s his health status? Has any team looked at his medical records? He does scare me, but …… ?
Leaders/grinders are over-rated, ya know what woulda stopped last years “collapse”….. a bullpen!! Plain and simple. Not a short, over-rated, gritty, white guy who gets dirty and plays 110% all the time and runs out every ground ball, you probably want mets to get rid of reyes, Wright or Beltran to shake up the team’s chemistry (maybe the worst idea Ive ever read on these boards)….. Boras should be applauded for being great at his job and getting the best for his clients, why does everyone prefer the insanely unimaginablely rich owners keep all the money we pay them to see the athletes play…. I prefer the athlets getting paid…. Boras just identifies the most desperate team and takes advantage now either the mets over pay for ollie or risk looking like fools holding their new patch and Tim redding for the rotation
Let’s get one thing straight. People who like “gritty” players are not being closet racists. That’s just a stupid, lazy slur. You can argue the merits of “grinders” all you want, but wanting “grinders” is not the same as saying the Mets need white guys (such as Adam Dunn, the anti-grinder.) I’ll say it again: King of the Grinders, as player and manager, is Ozzie Guillen, who, last time I checked, is Venezuelan.
Orlando Hudson is “gritty”
Yup — ditto Juan Pierre.
Luis Castillo ate his way out of “gritty” unfortunately.
I understand we go to see players play…but you are missing the point..owners had, have and will have always get paid…30-40 years ago owners were making a lot of money, players weren’t and our ticket prices were much lower…now owners still make a lot of money as well as the players and guess who is paying double for the tickets, hot dogs, beer, jersey etc.. 10 years from now…owners and players will still make about the same percentage and you and I (mostly you since I won’t be able to afford) will be paying 10 times as much…you can’t seriously expect to tell a business man not to make money on his investment. If you want to keep prices of tickets, food, jerseys down than we need a salary cap.
This is exactly what Bora$ wanted….Braves overpaying Lowe so Mets would have to overpay Ollie. Nobody else has shown an interest in OP, yet now they Mets will have to overpay to make sure they sign him.
I would tell Bora$ to go to hell.
Sheets with Garland/Wolf works for me.
Randy Wolf… is that a joke!?!?
I agree. If Boras didn’t plan this one, he probly should have. Its time to look at Ben Sheets now.
AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?? DID LOWE WIN THE CY YOUNG OR SOMETHING FOR SOME METS FANS TO BE ACTING BALLISTIC HERE COZ MINAYA DIDN’T GET HIM??
It’s stupid of Omar to not at least court Sheets, otherwise you have zero leverage right now. But Omar has never won any awards for his intelligence- did he even graduate high school?
Lol, wow… innapropiete but funny!!
mistermet – all i have ever said or written one good thing about the mets? and now your insulting the mans intelligence? your exactly the kind of met fan i despise, you know what go root for the other team in ny for christ sake because all you do is b itch and complain
I’m actually relieved. I think the Mets dodged a bullet, though not as lethal a bullet as Zito.
Lowe has been a good consistent starter, but nothing special … and the operative phrase here is “has been” because at 36, he’s likely only going to decline.
zito was good for us at 5/75 like omar offer, after the giants over pay to get him what happend?? his true colors came on.. talk to me in july when lowe is like 5-6 with an 4.36 ERA..
great point and some know it all mets fan want to down Omar for not signing an over rated Lowe
I really don’t klnow why this is such a big deal.. Lowe had a great year last year, but the numbers were WAY better than his career averages. Now take him out of a weak-hitting NL West to a much stronger NL East, and take into account hes 36, I’d take a 27 year old lefty with potential any day over him.
That said I wouldn’t mind Sheets over Ollie either.
Sorry, it’s a failure on several levels, incl. simply not showing Lowe that he belongs w/ the Mets (of course, Lowe could be a DIK!). They lowballed him–no question. He was the best of the available. His ERA trumps every argument, and puts him above Perez.
Really hope I’m dead wrong, but I doubt Perez will ever be anything beyond an inconsistent pitcher w/ flashes of brilliance.
Other failure is making Perez aware of his second-fiddle status in avery obvious way. Will he play as if he has something to prove now? Doubt it.
Simply, not Minaya’s finest hour.
In psitive Met fan fashion, here’s wishing a disaster season for Lowe–F-Him!
So Omar should have made Lowe like NY and take less money? Got it.
Well, um, yes. That’s the idea behind success in business.
However, if Lowe wanted only the team that would pay him more (also a biz principle, I realize), then we know what he is.
Personally, as a sports professional (gods weren’t so kind to me), I would always strive to balance salary w/ winning, especially World Series.
Dunno, maybe I’m just sour grapes. Still, I expected the Mets to sign this guy. Now we’l see how it works out.
do you think its a lowball offer..or what he is really worth…..think about it.
Mets Fans…Braves fans see this as Frank Wren grasping for straws…delaying the inevitable rebuild and a ridiculous waste of money… I could not agree more $15mm a year for this clown?
PUHHLEASE!
I think this set the market for Perez at 4/52 minimum, and that is just too much to give a headcase like Perez. I really hope he signs somewhere else, both for the bad PR and also because I think the guy is a f’ing headcase/timebomb, especially for that money.
Why not Ben Sheets??? Santana/Sheets/Pelfrey would make for as formadible 1-2-3 as you’ll see. If nothing else, shouldn’t Omar at leaset “feign” interest in Sheets to create leverage now? The stupid Mets basically told the whole world that it was “Lowe or Perez” or bust, which absolutely destroys their leverage now. Are they stupid? Does Omar really not have a h.s. education? I’d rather have Sheets anyway, but why wouldn’t you at minimum court sheets and make Boras think you are interested in him? FYI I bet the Mets would have payed 60 million to a latin pitcher of similar ilk as Lowe. This will give more fodder to the Los Mets thing.
I would definitely go after Sheets. Just make much of the contract contingent on him being healthy.
Man, the hysteria and panic (and the haters) are out in force now!
At the risk of the last of my sanity (after reading most of this thread, not much left), my thoughts:
- The off season is not over. Plenty of players left, and Omar has money to spend if he wants.
- Mets will add 1-2 more SP. Someone may even come from a trade.
- Thee is still penty of time and opportunity to upgrade on offense too. And now, maybe more money!
- Lowe had a nice year, but it really was a career year (especially for a 36 YO guy), and you can’t discount the home park effect for him.
- 4/60 for a guy to cruise into retirement in his 40s (and Lowe already said he was looking for 1 last payday) can for sure come back to bite you.
- you can’t predict finishes, even on opening day, and for sure not on 1/13. Wasn’t it last year that many pundits predicted the Braves to win the division?
- finally, this does not mean Omar will overpay for Ollie. He made his offer for Lowe, and wouldn’t up it. I expect he will do the same for Ollie, and if the price gets crazy, he will walk and take his picks. I do think he comes back though.
some of you guys are crazy in hear thinking Lowe is worth 60 million, he will be 41 at the end of his contract, how has agiging ball players been for us, umm Glavine, Pedro need I say more.
Also had the braves not lost out on Smoltz do you think they would of went over the 3/36 we offered, the Braves got desperate. The Mets are not that desperate.
Sign Perez. Hopefully he doesn’t implode. I would love to see them try and get Sheets signed to a short-term, incentive laden contract similar to Smoltz where he can make a lot of $$$ if he proves healthy.
This is a terrible contract from the Braves. Maybe he is good year 1 and 2 but how about 3 and 4 when he turns 40! This is a desperation move by the Braves as they lost Smoltz.
that is an effective salary of 20-30M/yr
i would get ollie and sheets/pedro (with an incentive based deal for the latter 2 guys), i don’t want wolf at all, i don’t care if his bro is an umpire…..
WE ALL KNOW D. LOWE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE 4TH OR 5TH STARTER ON THE 86 MET’S, IF THAT, ( I WOULDN’T PITCH HIM AHEAD OF AGGIE ) HOWEVER UNFORTUNATE, HE WAS THE NEXT ” BEST ” AFTER CC AND BURNETT, THAT SAID, I HOPE THE WILPON’S HAVE AN ANSWER TO OUR RIVAL’S, WHO BY THE WAY, WE DID NOT WIN THE SEASON SERIES AGAINST.
Can someone please teach this guy proper use of the “caps lock” and apostrophe keys?
27,
STICK TO THE THREAD SON.
I’m tired of all the speculation and Monday morning quarterbacking about what Omar did/did not do. I think he did a good job in not paying a ludicrous amount of money for an aging, over-hyped pitcher. For all we know, he could have low-balled Lowe simply to keep Perez’s price down. Contrary to “people familiar with Omar’s thinking,” we don’t know how or why Omar acted or what his “grand plan” may be.
too many – I didn’t mean to imply that you were racist for wanted “griity” players, just saying I think that is over rated and a media created fantasy, I think 90% of professional athletes hustle, get dirty and go all out, thats how they got to this level and stay there. i think often the term is used to describe a certain type of player, ecktein, theriot, Pedroia, Freel, Erstad, Rowand…guys who are not particularly great at baseball but exceed expectations, and/or hustle(yes), get their uniform dirty and a lot of times are white…..I just don’t think that would have helped the mets last yr as much as a bullpen that did not blow leads.
mistermet says:
January 13, 2009 at 1:06 pm
I think this set the market for Perez at 4/52 minimum, and that is just too much to give a headcase like Perez. I really hope he signs somewhere else, both for the bad PR and also because I think the guy is a f’ing headcase/timebomb, especially for that money.
Why not Ben Sheets??? Santana/Sheets/Pelfrey would make for as formadible 1-2-3 as you’ll see. If nothing else, shouldn’t Omar at leaset “feign” interest in Sheets to create leverage now? The stupid Mets basically told the whole world that it was “Lowe or Perez” or bust, which absolutely destroys their leverage now. Are they stupid? Does Omar really not have a h.s. education? I’d rather have Sheets anyway, but why wouldn’t you at minimum court sheets and make Boras think you are interested in him? FYI I bet the Mets would have payed 60 million to a latin pitcher of similar ilk as Lowe. This will give more fodder to the Los Mets thing.
^^ your a little slow, i think Omar’s plan was to low ball Lowe, and then he knew somebody would offer a lot more and this would open the gate for Perez, which we can give him less than what he is looking for, I really think we will get Oliver back now, bc if the other front office ppl wanted Lowe and now he is gone, and Omar wanted Ollie..it’s safe to say that is what’s going to happen, and like I said in another psot for a 2nd pitcher to get I would go after Sheets or Pedro to an incentive based deal
Omar missed out on another great pitcher:
Guillermo Mota has agreed to the terms of a one-year contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers, according to multiple media reports. (sarcasm)
Guys…its just one guy…not going to change much if the braves cant win. Boras just tapped into the money the braves had for burnett. I still believe it is a blessing in disguise.
redding is ok coming out of the bullpen as a long reliever, his stats through his first hundred or so innings pitched last year were great. sign sheets and have redding come in during the month or two that he is hurt.
ollie 4 years 40 mil
sheets 2 years 12 mil guaranteed and 4-6more in incentives. its 16mil a year total which is one more then lowe got and a much better rotation.
santana
sheets
ollie
main
pelf
redding long reliever
niese in aaa till september
amen to that rotation brother…….see u in october!!!!!!
i approve JR’s last post…..
and kinda I third it . . . . I still think I’d prefer Sheets & Garland . . .
If the Mets don’t pick up a front line pitcher, they must get MANNY so this way at least they can win as many games as if they contracted a top pitcher……also, MANNY should be signed by the mets because they deserve to give us a winning team…..not a team that just teases us…….been a Mets fan from day one……but if they short change us I will not go to any more of there gasmes….If the Yankees can do it so can the penny picthing Mets do it…..I hope there other fans will boycot going to the games as I will.
OMG-
Manny is garbage! We have enough players with loser mentalities.
NO MANNY
Yep, a real loser. 2 rings and a WS MVP… gotcha.
The following is from an article from Mets Geek written back on 12/04/2008:
“Allow me to digress here for a second. Why is it that the Yankees are planning on going nuts in the free agent market? They didn’t make the playoffs. I guess we must have had a nice October run that I slept through. I don’t want to become the Yankees, but I feel like we are a less flawed team than they are at this point, only needing a couple pieces, and yet we seem more than willing to accept the idea that we just can’t afford what we need.”
“In 2000 Fred Coupon got his nickname. After a trip to the World Series the Mets were poised to be the team to beat in 2001. There were a bunch of top tier free agents that fit onto a team that already made it to the World Series that season, including MIke Hampton, Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez and Mike Mussina. After getting spurned by Hampton to come back and getting priced out by A-Rod, we quickly made a move…and spent $42m for 4 years of Kevin Appier. The Yankees on the other hand Spent the money to get Mike Mussina for 6 years at only $4m per year more than we got Appier. The Mets would finish around .500 that season, leading to the acquisitions of Mo Vaughn, Roberto Alomar, Jeromy Burnitz, Pedro Astacio and a last place finish in 2002. Instead of paying for what we needed when it was available, the Mets took the cheaper route, leading to a more complete collapse than the banking industry. I fear that Wilpon forgot this and is doomed to repeat it by once again taking a small discount for a large drop off in talent.”
How appropriate.
Bring back Ollie! Mets fans should be psyched that our team did not fall for all the Lowe hype. Sure the Braves got themselves a legit #2 starter but for $60m? I would rather have Perez anyway and hopefully they can get him for 4 years 48 m? That’s what Silva got last year in a much better economy.
This is some of the worst bungling (and that’s saying a lot for them) and biggest scandal I’ve seen – worse than any collapses, I’d say, since it was all in their hands and they haven’t got a clue. Omar actually prefers Perez. It’s beyond Omar at this point – it’s time for the Wilpons to sell!
Stop whining.
I don’t get this. “It was all in their hands” — maybe that’s what you want to believe this from the press reports, but this is Scott Boras we were dealing with. Either the Mets were going to overpay ridiculously, or he was going to wait it out until another team got involved. Serendipitously, the Braves did and they’re the ones overpaying.
In the end, maybe the Mets erred and maybe they didn’t, but it’s silly to think that we know all the dynamics that we’re going on. It’s legitimate to think that 4/60 is way too much, and naive to think we could have gotten Lowe for much less we some sort of quick offer treating him like a king.
If Smoltz hadn’t signed with the Red Sox we might have gotten Lowe at a reasonable price.
i don’t understand what the big deal is……who cares if Lowe wants to go sit in 3rd place down south….he’s not THAt great..yes, he’s more consistent than ollie but the starters weren’t the prob last year….IT WAS THE PEN!!!!!!!!!!! Besides Garland eats just as many innings as lowe and is alot cheaper. that gives us more money to offer sheetes and keep redding as the long man or spot starter in case niese isn’et as great as everyone swears he will be!!! if ur a mets fan, then be a fan, not a critic. yeah the yanx spend spend spend but how many more titles do they have than the mets in the past 5 yrs= 0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Garland eats innings. But they’re usually bad innings.
Just some things I came up with while trying to legitimize the signing of perez over lowe:
With peterson last year he was 5-4 with an era over 5 and a k /9 of 7.5 and a bb/9 of 5.9.
After he was canned, ollie went 5-3 with 3.66 era, k/9 of 8.5 and a bb/9 of 4.2…. that’s one more k and one less walk per inning… clearly peterson’s mind yoga was screwing him up. Furthermore, in 15 starts with the jacket, he made it through the 6th inning 7 times… after peterson, 19 starts, made it through the 6th 15 times (including 12 games in a row). He could just be coming into his own so I don’t think it’s stupid to choose him over lowe. I just hope minaya’s decision works out for us. He’s intimated all along that ollie was his preference, so the fact that we lost out on lowe doesn’t really upset me… I was already expecting it.
However, if we keep perez, is this team all that much different from last year’s? Still kind of torn, but hoping his post-peterson work carries over into 2009… the start of his “prime years” as he turns 27.
Well ..I told all you guys ..he wasnt gonna be a Met….Ollie & Sheets would be much better anyway.
Omar needs to make a move before MLB 2k9 comes out and the roster is not updated.
Some of these posts are a joke, is Lowe going to win a CY Young award, Career he is 19 games over .500 and commanding ace type money, he is at best a number 2 starter. Oliver is 27, and when he is on dominant, did anyone ever watch Randy Johnson before he learned how to pitch and have control of his pitches. So you sign Perez for 4 years and 44 mil and you chart the next four years and then talk about Lowe, most likely Perez is going to have the most success. Lowe would not dominate the Phils, Perez has. Sign Garcia, and a few other starters for insurance such as Redding’s pedigree. The biggest mistake is not getting another bat, and increaing the hepth at each position on the team
You guys aren’t realizing that the main problem was the bullpen. when the bullpen had it going for them we had a 10 game winning streak. when the guys in the pen pitch well enough, the team carried themselves. i prefer Ollie over Lowe. he knows how the clubhouse he knows the environment and he show flashes of how great he can really be. So guys calm down Omar not done making deals
LETS GO METS
stick to mets topics and not each other ok?
I agree with JR about Ollie/Sheets, but no way I give Ollie 4 years. My 1st preference is to tell Boras to go **** his mother. Then say 3 at $30, take it or leave it. If he leaves it then sign Sheets and Garland. Niese to 3A and Redding to the pen as the long man.
1. sheets
incentive laden contracts go to
2. mulder
3. petey
and if the price is right for an innings eater
4. garland
What makes anyone think that we can get Perez cheap ????? I would take Lowe over Perez but if we lose out on him too say hello to 3rd place
This team owners are nothing but bargin shoppers
ollie/manny, get it done
Considering where this deal went, 4/60, I’m glad we didn’t match that offer. Not with this market.
Are people really upset over this.
Last I checked Derek Lowe is human and a 35 y/o old pitcher. He has no upside for the future for a FOUR year deal! He can only decline from what he has been doing.
I felt this way b4 the Braves got him. I was kinda blah over getting Lowe.
The one thing I liked about him was that he could tutor Pelfrey as a fellow sinkerballer.
Sign Ollie and for Godsake with this market get another #5 pitcher. Make Redding the long man and an insurance plan. I like the low key signing, low risk, high reward.
Maybe thats what Omar is doing with Redding, Maybe thats why we got him. SO he can sign a health risk like a sheets or a pedro and have a backup. that would be great
You had to see this one comming :(
Meh. I don’t really care. I just think it’s funny. I find it funny about Perez, too. Frankly, I didn’t really want either pitcher.
I just don’t get the Mets sometimes. They make these weak offers, but I wonder if they do it because they know the players/agents won’t take it – but at least they can say “We tried…”
All along I wanted Sheets because I think he’s worth the risk. Still doubt Omar gets him, but I’d like it if he did.
If Ollie was smart, he would sign for a 2-3 year contract for 15 mil and really show up like an ace.
He would be 29 and there would be a WHOLE ENTIRE MLB market salivating to get him.
I can see Ollie getting 23 Million per year for 5 years if he plays his cards right…
2009 – 15 mil – goes 18-10
2010 – 17 mil – goes 21-10 wins Cy Young
2011 – hits the free agent market and cashes in…
or
he signs a 4 year deal and hits the market at 31-32…the chance for the Johan/CC type payday is pretty much done…
If he has faith in himself, he will do it
I’d love to take a shot at Manny with some of the $ we’re saving w/o over paying Lowe. I’m pretty sure Boras would block that move and try and steer the mets towards overpaying for Ollie by driving the price up on Manny…
I just puked my blue and orange internal organs.
DAMMIT.
I really think Lowe would have been a wonderful fit here. It very much so disappoints me that the Mets and Boras were not able to reach some sort of an agreement. This honestly upsets me.
The worst part though is that we lost him to a division rival. Really not good.
I do like Ollie a lot, but man, Lowe would probably have produced more, especially with that innings eater type of pitcher he is. Despite his age, he would have worked better.
Now PLEASE will you, Omar, sign someone to this freakin team that will really impact its mood to be a little more, LETS KICK SOME PHILLY BUTTOCKS type of mood, or actually just make the team significantly better?
If I had to choose someone right now to get this team movin a bit faster (whose name does not sound like fanny) it would be Mike Young. I dont care what position he wants to play, get his tushy over to second base and let Castillo go. It makes sense and you dont have to spend a ridonkulous amount of money on a player like Manny, who isnt worth as much as Boras says he is ( is anyone as worth as much as what Boras says?).
I AM FREAKIN BORED LETS SIGN SOMEONE NOW (besides Ollie)!
The Braves may have overpayed due to the heat coming from letting Smoltz go to the Sox.
is omar crazy? First of all you make some good moves with the bullpen. which was good. Now you turn around and dont sign lowe to improve the starting line-up. You knew ollie was going to asked for more money even though rick peterson basicly gave him a second chance to be a good picher. And now you mean to tell me we tryin to sign the same starting line up as last year minus pedro. ……….WOW
Dont let me get started on the left feild and that line up
Braves avg. = 31.2 (if you throw Jurrjens in the mix)…add Glavine and that average explodes!
But to be fair, if you get blocked, you get your subscription fee back.
thank you!!!..someone who thinks straight
clueless, you are totally guessing that lowe would have been fine with a 3yr deal, when in fact it was basically that 4th yr guarenteed that Lowe wanted and got him to sign. thanks for playing though.
Yeah, because the significant upgrade of the bullpen by adding Putz and K-Rod and subtracting Heilman and Schoeneweis is nothing.
lmao @ balance of power…BECAUSE OF ONE SIGNING NOW THE BRAVES HAVE THE POWER IN THE DIVISION lol…you guys crack me up.
Nah, the difference between Lowe and Ollie might be one win. So, the Braves pick up one win on us. Not a big deal. It’s the Phillies we have to worry about and Ollie pitches well against them:
In 2008:
GS: 4
IP: 26
K: 27
ERA: 0.35
Sign Ollie!!!!!
thank you both!!!
(rimshot)
lol…darn it, you people owe me something when come onto this free site….lol
Theyre not the favorites, but this takes them from a 4th place afterthought to a contender. Thanks to Omar Minaya. Ive been a fan of the guy, but you cant let a front end starter go to a rival like that.
So you are suggesting that he should have offered 4/64 for Lowe? LOL.
Does that mean that if the Mets signed Lowe the Braves would have been letting a division contender get a front-end starter?
Doesn’t one of those two teams have to lose out on him?
Kind of hard to argue with a guy that can’t do simple math. 4/60 is 15 million a year. You would have to go 4/64 to up the offer. Not to mention the fact that he may have required more if he did not want to come to NY to start with.
and what about the other 30 starts where he pitched to an ERA of over 4.50???
It would not have changed anything. Lowe was going to get 4/60 from someone and it was never going to be the Mets.
well, not only we got k-rod and putz, but we got rid of heilmann and blownweis, how are we not that much better?? u need to look at our team and realize that if our bullpen would’ve not blown 29 instaed 24 we would’ve had 94 wins!!! and win the division and who knows what would’ve happen in the playoffs, it took the phillies for us to blow THAT many games and they have PERFECT closer to win the division, they pretty much got the same team a year older for some old guys and utley will be out for like 3 mothns, how are they better than us…?? please..
k-rod blew 7 saves in 69 opps
wagner blew 7 saves in 35 opps
i’ll take k-rod, at 8 years younger, over wagner and say he’s more than just a “wash”
putz is MUCH better than heilman or anyone else in the 8th.
they have a guy who pitched 180 innings and was a number 2 last year as our number 5.
the mets will sign another starter and add some more pieces.
they will be MUCH better off to start this season.
But I thought all you had to do was make a declaration and put it in all caps with exclamation points and it would happen.
Sort of like: GET LOWE FOR 3 YEARS / $14 MILLION!!!!! WHO CARES IF BRAVES OFFERED MORE!!!!!!!
No? That doesn’t work?
Hey look, enterkrod can change screen names.
Again, the fact that it IS Boras means that we STILL would have had to up our offer. It’s not like Boras would have said “Yup, Derrek that’s about all I could get you any way. You should hurry up and sign.”
if u think this team is in a bad way go be a pirates fan..
i’m glad we made u change ur mind!
Dude, I think it’s time you changed your name to cheaproyals or something and moved on.
I agree entirely with your discussion of changing the character of the clubhouse, though “grinders” is a fighting word around here. I think it was just easier for ownership and manag_ement to blame a couple “missing pieces” than to recognize a systematic problem — the culture of the team and a glaring leadership vacuum.
I don’t lament losing Lowe, though. It’s about time someone outbid us for something. I realize that we’re way past the level playing field in terms of salary, but signing everyone our hearts desire is too much like the crosstown atrocity.
do me a favor, if ur gonna insult a comment or a person don’t reply better, ur stupid are totally stupid and misleading but i don’t post if i got nothing to say, so move on and find someone who wil play urviolin.. ok.. dumbas-s..
F** YOU!! look, theost stupid person here is you, i see how u been insultying evryone here, if u don’t like my post don’t comment on it ok!!! MAMAGUE** who the f** u think u are?? i don’t reply to ur nonsense coz i got nothing to say, but don’t reply to mine insulting my inteligence or let alone anyone’s in here, is a free blog and everyone is entitle to their opinion, i wish we’d be face to face to see if u call me stupid…
Oh, so the Phillies have to deal with Lowe too, now? Great!!!! Or, not “great” because he’s really not that spectacular.
WAHHHHHHHH!!! Mommy and Daddy didn’t buy me the pitcher I wanted!!!! WAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!
This was not a game. The Mets did not “lose” to the Braves. The Braves valued Lowe higher than the Mets did.
wow, glad you aren’t our GM….
OH NO INTERNET TOUGH GUYZ!!!!!!
i never threaten you, but if i did i would’ve said ur lucky we’re not face to face so i can punch u right in the mouth, and run a poll to see who have said the dumbest things in here today me or you? i won’t even waste my time coz ur not worth it..
what is the point of even talking like that? this is the internet, the odds of you two meeting, are slim to none.
I think most of us like the spirited debate, but talking about punching eachother is just getting ridiculous
some people act childish to get attention mrose, i just move on..
oh, and we never talk about punching each other, i talked about me punching him only..
You guys aren’t realizing that the main problem was the bullpen. when the bullpen had it going for them we had a 10 game winning streak. When the guys in the pen pitch well enough, the team carried themselves. I prefer Ollie over Lowe. He knows how the clubhouse he knows the environment and he show flashes of how great he can really be. So guys calm down Omar not done making deals
LETS GO METS!!!!!!
Omar and the Mets can very easily make me forget about Derek Blowe.
We just need to sign Perez, Sheets or Wolf and either sign Hudson or trade for Nady. Plus, I would like us to add one more arm to the bullpen, Juan Cruz or Chad Cordero.
Then I’ll be a very happy Mets’ fan.