|
|
|
Yesterday, during a conference call with reporters, Omar Minaya suggested the Mets will only look to sign free-agent Pedro Martinez if he is unable to acquire free-agent RHP Derek Lowe or Oliver Perez, adding:
“Pedro’s one of the guys that is still under consideration – but right now, the way it is, we’re dealing with some other guys… Is he an option? He’s in the pool - but that’s where he falls right now. We’re in a position that, with the guys that are out there, the guys we are looking at, if we add one of those guys on the list, we feel real good going into the year.”
…i believe pedro can find more than a minor-league 
contract…and so, if the Mets end up with either Derek Lowe, Randy Wolf or Oliver Perez, i just don’t see how pedro fits in…i know omar has a great respect, appreciation and loyalty to pedro, but with Tim Redding and Jon Niese in the mix, there is no reason to sign pedro to a guaranteed deal…
…here’s the thing, if the Mets lose out on lowe and perez, they HAVE TO consider Ben Sheets…they have to…i know he has a history of injury, and there are league-wide concerns about his shoulder and elbow, but, if he’s looking at a one– or two-year deal, he has GOT TO BE an option…the guy can be an ace when healthy…
In 31 starts for the Brewers last season, Sheets was 13–9 with a 3.09 ERA in 198 innings pitched, during which opponents hit .241 and struck out 158 times.
…the buzz in baseball continues to link sheets and the Rangers, and maybe the Brewers, though no offers are on the table…
 |
 |
 |
RSS 2.0 Both comments and pings are currently closed.
You said a lot without really saying anything new. What’s the deal – slow news day?
i would take a calculated risk on sheets over paying a 40 yr old lowe
i agree…maybe a sheets/garcia platoon…some new blood you know? stop putting the same team that has collapsed back on the field
Lose out on Lowe or Perez as usual the Mets looking like a small market team!
Right, because they didn’t already sign K-Rod, and they don’t already have Beltran, Delgado, Wright, Reyes, and Santana on their payroll.
Can you define what you think a “small market” team is? Does it include the 3rd highest payroll in the game? Or is it just any team that isn’t $100MM above everyone else and that overspends by 20% or more on anyone they set their sights on.
What is it with you people…honestly? Explain how it’s “small-market” to not overspend on two mid-tier starters? I am dying to know.
I don’t think Redding should seriously be considered for a rotation spot. I mean yeah, he can compete with Niese for a possible 5th spot, but I’d much rather have Pedro in the mix as well. Redding can fine tune himself in the minors for our 19 games against Philly. That is the reason we got him to begin with……
Yo Dave … when a team does not even make an attempt at Tex and does not even think about talking to Manny, that team is acting small market.
And I know … the Mets need pitching. No kidding. They need more than pitching though.
2gr8: let me ask you something…what did you think of ryan church playing FT left field last year? what did you think of tatis before last year? did you even know who he was? murphy? im guessing now…redding is a low risk high reward work horse and i love the signing…just like i liked the miledge trade last year..we dont need a high profile player at every position give the guy a chance on a winning team and see what he can do
Listen it’s small market when your thinking about going into the season with Redding or Wolf as your possible #4. Don’t mind the kid at #5. But While Pelfrey might be good let’s be honest he gave us 4 good months last year. I think he might be finally learning his way but we don’t know. Maine is coming off Shoulder pain I think it was. Lets hope for the best there. They need to think big here not small and if Lowe isn’t the man then it should be Perez. By the way it’s not my money Freddie is spending so I could care less if he gives them 12 or 15 mill. But I just don’t want to hear about that’s our limit. New stadium,SNY,Citibank/taxpayer bucks. Sorry heart not bleeding here.
Well if it’s not your money he’s spending, then that means you don’t tune into the game on SNY, on WFAN, you don’t attend a single game.
Otherwise it indeed is your money, because your support Live in person, and through TV/Radio ratings is what exactly is paying these players.
Fact of the matter is for everyone who does complain about the Mets being cheap. You have to look at one simple fact.
Not one single team in all of MLB has added payroll onto what they spent last season. Not one. Including the Yankees. Not ONE.
But the Mets should add over 30 million dollar extra, become the #2 team, Break the luxury tax bracket. Or they have a small market mentality. Come on This team was #3 in payroll last year. And will probably already be #2 or #3 this year.
That my friends is no small market.
…and there are always some people who will defend the Mets doing just enough to lose.
Mets revenue numbers for the 2008 season are not available as yet but based on the 2007 season they made well over 230M in Revenue and with citified they are projected to easily top 300M so I don’t want to hear anyone use money as an excuse ever again. We have money to get who ever the hell we want.
Correct LNBGS. Please let’s not use money as an issue EVER! If it is so then don’t own a team. My point remains it doesn’t bother me what they spend on salary. Yes I pay thru tickets and Directv gets my dollar per month or whatever it is for SNY, but Fred’s bottom line is not my concern mine is. If tickets prices go up so be it. I will and most good Mets fans will pay if it is a good product. Lets go trade/sign/draft the best palyer available.
I think you have to consider Sheets even if they do get one of Lowe/Perez/Wolf. Based on the market as it stands, he would not cost much in $ or years. Worst case scenario, Redding’s a long man. Better to have too many starters than not enough.
Sheets making 23 starts is better than a lot of guys making 30 starts (considering 7 starts are made up by niese or redding).
you HAVE to kick the tires on sheets.
I agree. One year to see what he can do is better than Pedro, Niese or Redding.
I agree with Matt.
Why not take a chance with a 1 or 2 year deal Sheets? best case scenario he is Ace level as good as any pitcher out there and wins 18 games. Worst case scenario he gets injured and pitches 3/4 of season but still gives us 12 wins.
We already have either Redding or Niese (whoever doesn’t get the 5th spot) to add some depth. maybe sign another cheap guy as a backup.
Actually, worst case scenario is he gets lit up in the first game, comes out early and is out on the dl for the rest of his contract.
That said, I still want to sign him!
Lowe made 76 starts in the last 4 years.
Sheets made 94 starts over that same time.
Can somebody explain why Wolf is a serious consideration of the Mets, but Sheets isn’t??
Dammit, I did it again.!!!
Corrected post:
Wolf made 76 starts in the last 4 years.
Sheets made 94 starts over that same time.
Can somebody explain why Wolf is a serious consideration of the Mets, but Sheets isn’t??
you’re obsessed with Lowe
LOL. I must be. I keep putting his name instead of someone else’s!!
I’d rather have Sheets at 2 years, than Lowe or Perez for 4… Easily… When healthy, he’s an ace… Lowe and Perez have never been ace quality… solid #2/#3 types, but Sheets is lights out when healthy.
If we sign Sheets, we also add Pedro, giving us a lot of depth.
Johan
Sheets
Maine
Pelf
Pedro
Redding
Neise
Redding heads to long relief, and Neise to AAA… I don’t see how this isn’t the best option… I just don’t
I agree with you, that is the best optian.
Can somebody name me a sinker ball pitcher who was effective in the years 35 and beyond?
I can’t think of one single one. I’m not saying this to beat down Lowe, i just can’t.
Every successful older pitcher i can think of is a fastball, change-up, slider, curve ball, change speed and locate pitches guy. I can’t think of one Sinkerballer. I know one who tried and kept getting big contracts in Kevin Brown who was never good past 34, 35. But i can’t think of one successful one.
Good points. I’d like to see Lowe’s supporters counter that.
The risk for older pitchers is huge. Either they take a hit in production, performance, or both.
Over the last two years there was just one starter 36 or older who pitched over 150 innings with an ERA under 3.80. That was moyer last year … and the year before his ERA was over 5.00.
Could Lowe be one of the exceptions? Sure. But he’s mostly likely to conform to the rule.
The Age + The type of pitch really scares me Long Term.
I am not bashing lowe. I was all about lowe heading into the year, figuring he would come at somewhere around 12 million and completely turned on him when he said i was 5 years 80 million.
He’s Flat out, not that good. FLAT OUT NOT THAT GOOD!!!!. Plus he’s older, and relies on a pitch that is primarily a fastball, which as we all know, from our own age and from all baseball history…… You lose speed off your fastball as you get older. That translates into VERY SCARY for a guy who relies on that pitch probably close to 75%.
thank you mark, me and you have always said that about lowe.. let the braves over pay for him when we can get SHEETS!!
Tommy John went:
21 / 9 137ERA+ 276 IP 2nd in CY voting at age 36
22/ 9 114ERA+ 265 IP 4th in CY voting at age 37
9 / 8 135ERA+ 140 IP at age 38
14 / 12 108ERA+ 222 IP at age 39
TJ is a rare pitcher who got better after TJ surgery later in his career and played in an era with plentiful greenies and larger parks.
Lowe has never even had a season close to TJ in terms of maximum number of IPs.
It’s fanciful to think Lowe will come close to TJ’s late career excellence.
I wonder if Steve Nebraska’s deal wth the Yankees expired…he’d be a good 1-1A
Hahahahahah, fantastic reference to The Scout
I agree with most of you guys on here, sign Ollie and Sheets. For a 1 year deal or 2 it’s worth the risk. Imagine this rotation:
Santana
Sheets
Ollie
Pelfrey
Maine.
You could put them in any order you guys want.
Ollie at 10 million, Sheets at 8+incentives. You have your rotation, a long relief man/ 6th starter. Neise beings the year in AAA and works on his stuff to make him that much more ready when he is called up. and you do this all for pretty much 2-3 million more then Lowe is signing for.
If the Perez price goes haywire like it most likely will with Boras, then replace Ollie with Garland/Wolf and move on.
Sheets had the 2nd best stuff on the market. Unless his Medical reports are a serious serious Red Flag, You have to go get him NOW!
kevin brown was bad because he was hurt all those years (yeah i gues sthat comes in with age) . but, sinker ballers can still be effective when they get older. more so that a fast ball change up guy like pedro was.
twofours44,
I know kevin browns was injuries. But name me one. I can name off the top of my head 2 HOF’ers and one guy who just got a 2 year contract from the World Series champions who were in their late 30’s and into their 40’s who pitched well. Maddox, Moyer, Glavine.
I can’t think of one Sinkerballer. Not one. I’m not mr super baseball historian. But the sinkerball has been around way longer then me, and many people have thrown it. I can’t think of one successful pitcher who threw that pitch who was good in their late 30’s and beyond.
i dont feel like thinking about it. you win.
also, there arent a ton of guys around who throw primarilly fastball – sinker.
is smoltz more of a forkball guy or a splitfinger fast ball guy?
Completely different pitch.
Sinker ball is a fastball that dips as it goes to the plate. Those pitches are meant to have late movement, and typically aren’t as dramatic as the sinker. Also they are typically slower. You hold those pitches and move your wrist completely different
And Even Still outside Clemons and Smoltz, most people who rely on Split finger aren’t successful once they lose their Velocity as they get older.
Look at Rodger before he started his PED’s. His career went from Cy young at age 29, to a 10-13 pitcher with a ERA nearly twice what it had been. Because his splitter and his fastball weren’t as fast, it gave that hitter that extra fraction of a second to decide to not swing or to swing.
A quick Wikipedia search of Sinkerballers comes up with:
Kevin Brown
Roy Halladay
Brandon Webb
Tim Hudson
Chien-Ming Wang
Derek Lowe
Joe Smith
Orel Hershiser
Aaron Cook
Fausto Carmona
Jake Westbrook
Jason Marquis
Carlos Zambrano
Mike Timlin
Wally Bunker
Mike Pelfrey
Kyle Kendrick
Brandon League
Luke Hochevar
I mean i guess i could give you Orel Hershiser. Who pitched till he was 41, but from 33 on he wasn’t anything more then an adequate pitcher.
Most of the others are in their 20’s and the others others are retired , or early 30’s like Doc Holliday and Hudson.
Tommy John was a sinkerball pitcher too
I’m surprise Penny was picked up before Sheets. Maybe the league knows something we don’t. As a fan I want to see Ollie and Sheets then hope we can stay healthy. Health is always the key to winning for Champions.
Sheets costs a pick, Penny doesn’t. If all other things are equal then Penny is less of a gamble in that if he is a 0 it is just money whereas Sheets is money and a 1st round pick
I cannot believe that the Mets have not been linked to Sheets at all thus far. Look at the Red Sox. They signed Penny, Smoltz, and Saito to guaranteed deals. All of them are just as much a risk as Sheets.
Omar should show some power and get this guy. Big market teams should have the ability to take risks on big time talents. Get it done Omar. I do not see the downside to this. This is the same GM that signed Moises Alou for 2 years at practically 8 million per year. There has never been a bigger injury risk than Alou.
yeah, but based on that ididotic move now the organitazion is afraid to bring in a guy woth talent like sheets..
Penny, Smoltz, and Saito are just salary. Sheets is salary and a pick. Why didn’t the RS sign him instead of a 40+ Smoltz? There has to be a reason.
the thing is, NOBODY has heard anything, NOBODY has said what’s the reason for him not to be sign by now, we may be over playing his injury, but it can also be money, years.. we don’t know for sure becoz there has been no report..
SIGN BEN SHEETS!!
Without making a play for someone like Sheets, the Mets just get locked into Boras’ game which will result in overpaying for either Lowe or Ollie. It’s time Omar looked aggressively outside the Boras stable if only for leveraging purposes.
THE METS NEED TO STAY AWAY FROM SHEETS.
I can’t say that strongly enough. I am a Mets fan living in WIsconsin, so I see a lot of Brewers games and hear about and read about the Brewers quite a bit.
Sheets is more than just injury prone. He has a very low pain tolerance. He won’t pitch through anything. He is only effective when he is 100% healthy (which is rare). I also question if he can pitch in NYC. I don’t think he can handle all of the BS with the press and everything else.
STAY AWAY FROM SHEETS. Overpay for Lowe or Perez, but STAY AWAY FROM SHEETS.
wow, really.. u may know more than me.. but as a mets fan living in NY i’ve also seen ollie pitch and let me tel lyou, i’d take sheets any day ahead of this roller coaster ride anyday of the week..
Good point alex. For whatever negatives come along with Lowe … he’s a better pitcher and can be had at a shorter term contract.
You mean Sheets, right?
Duh yeah Sheets. See what happens when you read post after post after post about Derek Lowe?
LOL, i was about to say the same.. sheets when healthy can be an ace.. lowe has never been an ace no matter what staff he’s been on..
Lowe signs with Braves, 4/60. Send him a fruit basket with a card that says, “advance apologies for when we’re tagging your aging isht all over the yard. This isnt the NL West, anymore.”
gorilla44 says:
January 13, 2009 at 10:30 am
THE METS NEED TO STAY AWAY FROM SHEETS.
I can’t say that strongly enough. I am a Mets fan living in WIsconsin, so I see a lot of Brewers games and hear about and read about the Brewers quite a bit.
Sheets is more than just injury prone. He has a very low pain tolerance. He won’t pitch through anything. He is only effective when he is 100% healthy (which is rare). I also question if he can pitch in NYC. I don’t think he can handle all of the BS with the press and everything else.
STAY AWAY FROM SHEETS. Overpay for Lowe or Perez, but STAY AWAY FROM SHEETS.
^^i’ll take your word for it, you libing in wisconsin gives you an edge and what you see/and hear about sheets, i think we should jsut sign ollie and pedro..and then look for another bat in the OF or 2B (hudson)
but we’ve also seen what having pedro nad ollie has gotten us the past 2 years.. virtually nothing, headaches, injury, inconsistency.. come on guys, new blood in the rotation is better.. we know what ollie and pedro will give us.. 5 innings, around 7-10 k’s and either 4 runs or 8 walks!! we need new BLOOD in the rotation.. who knows maybe sheets gets healthy from now on.. u never know..
I believe Sheets will sign a two year deal but it’ll be more for more than the Mets can afford. Plus, this discussion about Sheets is moot since Oliver Perez will certainly be a Met if Lowe signs with the Braves.
It just did. 4/60. In two years, that contract will stink like a dead fish.
I for one, and just looking at the comments here, think the Mets could create one heckuva buzz if they could pull in both Ollie and Sheets!! Do that and I’m not so sure they wouldn’t be the big winter winner in New York – and for a fair amount less money to boot!
It’s over…. Lowe is a brave for 15 million per season.
“…i believe pedro can find more than a minor-league contract…and so, if the Mets end up with either Derek Lowe, Randy Wolf or Oliver Perez, i just don’t see how pedro fits in”
Yeah, Pedro can sign with a Major League team, but it’ll be with a team like the Pirates, not a contending team. Pedro would rather retire than play for a non-contending team.
However, I think Pedro would take a John Smoltz like deal with the Mets. It’s almost certain that the team will need a fill-in pitcher for close to 10 games. I believe Pedro would want to be that fill in pitcher with the Mets because he knows they’re close to winning it all, he has a great comraderie with the team, and at his stage in his career he probably wants to finish his career with the Mets.
Say hello to Ollie, Pedro and Garcia!
Lets get Isringhausen, Pulsipher and Wilson back here and make one more run at Generation K…. projected Starters:
Izzy
Pulsipher
Wilson
Santana
Pelfrey
Santana makes a great # 4.
Omar get it done. This offseason is too long.
Hahahaha! Hilarious stuff Dallas…I bet we can get them all done for $10k and a hot dog cart each!
Braves Sign Derek Lowe
By Tim Dierkes [January 13 at 9:43am CST]
According to David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the Braves agreed to terms with Derek Lowe on a four-year, $60MM deal. For all the talk of the Braves’ failed offseason, they’ve added three quality starting pitchers. Even if Lowe wasn’t their first choice, he probably should’ve been.
“other teams like” should be “other teams like the red sox”