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Last during Hot Stove on the MLB Network, 
SI.com’s Jon Heyman said the Rangers, Dodgers, Brewers and Cardinals are all in the market for a starting pitcher, ‘and so Oliver Perez will do better than people think.’
Ben Shpigel of the New York Times believes the Mets have not made an offer to Perez, despite what had been reported by Heyman, who said earlier in the week that Omar Minaya made a three-year offer.
…i was recently told the same thing by some one close to the team, and i notice other people writing the same…
…again, there may be some confusion about the definition of ‘offer.’ …seriously …it happens all the time… i’m starting to realize that half of what goes on in these reports comes down to interpretation, some times from the same source to different reporters… anyway, i’ll save that for another day…
Nevertheless, Shpigel says the Mets will make an offer to Perez in the next day or so – again, as has been similarly reported by other outlets.
…from what i can gather, Scott Boras can likely get a four-year, $48 million deal for perez, if not more… the thing is, while they may be open to giving him a four-year deal, i do not believe the Mets plan to offer perez more than they were rumored to have offered lowe, i.e., $12 million per season… i believe $12 million would be the absolute max… in other words, perez is far from a slam dunk…
…for what it’s worth, at the start of the off-season, i felt the Mets had zero intention of bringing perez back, despite reports that minaya preferred him to lowe – reports, by the way, that i believe have been overstated… they like perez, don’t get me wrong, i just feel lots of people in management still see him as too much of an unknown – emotionally and physically – and they’re not confident in what he’ll deliver in exchange for such a steep price tag…
By the way, also on the MLB Network, Heyman said the Mets may look at Ben Sheets or Randy Wolf, “if they don’t get Perez.”
Shpigel makes a similar comment, writing, “They are also weighing a run at Sheets, but are wary of his injury history.”
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“By the way, also on the MLB Network, Heyman said the Mets may look at Ben Sheets or Randy Wolf, “if they don’t get Perez.”
so perez is definetaly our #2 pitcher we desperatively need???
W-O-W…
I doubt they would slot perez for #2
but isn’t that what we were looking for??
key word..”were”
The only pitcher imo that is worthy of #2 would be sheets but i understand that his injury history would affect that. Perez is #4 imo but with this team who knows where they will slot him.
LMAO, got you dirty.. excellent point.. lol..
Agreed, if they get Perez, the starting rotation will probably look like this on Opening Day:
Santana
Maine
Perez
Pelfry
Redding
You can slot Maine at #4 till he develops an out pitch
Maine is a number 5….always has been…probably always will be.
except when he held down the #2 for us
Pelfrey is our #2 in that rotation. He will have a very strong season for us this year. And we wouldn’t slot LH OP right after Johan. Makes no sense to go lefty back-to-back with 3 Rh starters following.
A #2 pitcher doesn’t denote where in the rotation he is slotted. It denotes the second best pitcher.
I still like the idea of signing Sheets and Pedro to incentive laden deals. Sign Perez to a 4 year $48 mil deal and let Sheets and Pedro pitch every sixth day. Given the extra rest they may be able to go seven more than twice in one season. Keep Redding as the long man and spot starter
I would offer about 3yrs/30-36. If OP declines, then let’s move on to Sheets.
Actually, let’s go after Sheets irrespective of OP’s decision.
In this market, the odds are pretty good Perez will get offered at least 3/36 from someone other than the Mets (the Dodgers, for example), which means the Mets will have to add a year or money to get him. If they want him in Queens he’s going to cost something like 3/42 or 4/50.
That has a ripple effect on Sheets as well – injury prone or not, if he sees a guy like Perez get 3/42, his demands are not going to be 1/$9 or 2/$18 mil as some are suggesting…he’s going to get at least 2 years, for at least 12 mil guaranteed, likely with incentives. He’s not going to be in the bargain rack, even with the risk…
sign sheets NOW at something like 2/20
also sign perez if he can be had for 3/35
sheets signing first reduces perez’ price (leaves Mets in a position to walk away, takes away a suitor from Boras)
but perez signing first elsewhere drives UP sheets’ price (one less quality SP on market, big market team in more dire need)
upside of sheets+perez is comparable to sabathia+burnett for hundreds of millions less
Why would Minaya wait to try for Sheets? Put a little pressure on Boras by putting in a 1-2 year offer on Sheets at the same time as Perez. Frankly, I’d love to see them sign both of them anyway (Unrealistic, yes I know) since I’d prefer Redding to be our long man ready to take over as #5 in case of injury. (Perfect insurance for Sheets)
+1
+1 f that +5.
P.s. I am starting to lose patience with rotation situation as it stands. I almost lost it when I read that the Mets “MAY start to look at Sheets”. You think?! Why haven’t we looked into this earlier. I know we all have been shouting it. How about we change that MAY to a WILL look into Ben Sheets.
+ 10
we can’t afford a pitcher like perez, matt can you please post a list of 10 million or less pitchers that we can afford?
We can’t afford a pitcher like Perez? Are you high? Of course we can. It’s not a matter of being able to afford a player. It’s a matter of our front office and Omar actually wanting to spend.
Remember the Wilpons are notoriously cheap. We have the money, they just don’t want to spend it.
Notoriously cheap? This team leads the NL in payroll, and has been in that spot for the past few seasons. This team is anything but cheap – they certainly spend the money, just not always in the right place.
Okay, maybe that was a bad choice of words, you’re (all) right.
Would you (all) be willing to agree that a) they won’t even spend that extra dollar that would push us over the edge to being a Championship caliber team? And b) while they spend, the contract offers aren’t always the smartest investments (Alou, Castillo, El Duque, etc)
I take back the notoriously cheap comment but I still think that, while we do land big fish, they don’t always spend as wisely as they should…
Notoriously cheap? Ridiculous. The Mets have the highest payroll in the National League, and have two $100 million contracts. Only the Yankees have more. Having a business plan is not cheap, it’s smart.
The Mets have the biggest payroll in the national league because they play in the biggest market in the national league. The fact that they have the biggest payroll has more to do with the fact that the Mets play in NY with NY revenue.
I wouldn’t call them cheap … but they definitely never go the extra mile to try and win the whole thing.
Agreed.
SURE WE CAN OFFORD BOTH OLLIE AND SHEETS….LOOK AT ALL THE MONEY WE SAVE ON THAT STUPID PATCH. HAHAHAH
Sometimes this team drives me to drink.
I think the market for Ollie will heat up…We really need him…And it’s pretty annoying that this team cant pick up both Ollie and Sheets. Oh I forgot, small market team like the Mets have a budget.
I think that all this quiet think about Lowe and now Perez is because Omar is working to get his pitcher by trade, just like last year that all of a sudden the Mets land Santana.
It wouldn’t surprise me that all of a sudden appears that Mets aquiring a pitcher by trade.
You’re giving Omar too much credit…
not to mention, the fact that Santana was available for trade wasn’t really a secret…lol
At these asking prices, we may be better off hoping that Maine or Pelf step up as our #2.
Honestly, I don’t care about the salaries or years. But I know the Wilpons do.
At these prices? Last year Perez would have gotten 5 years/75 million. If we get him for 4/48 It is a bargain, I dont care if it is up in the high range of contracts given this offseason. When the economy improves, pitchers like Perez will get much more than the money proposed here. The Mets need to start taking advantage of this and stop acting like a small market team in a buyers market.
if ur willing to give ollie 4 years 48 millions and to think that’s a bargain i rather do thsi:
SHEETS 2 years 22 millions!!!
MANNY 1 year 26 millions!!!!
Sheets isn’t going for 2 years 22 million. Minus the injuries he was the best pitcher availalbe this offseason. Or at least 2nd best behind CC.
Sheets will probably get 2 years 30 million, with incentives that will push it beyond that.
And if Manny just wanted one year he would be a Dodger already.
I agree, I want both those players, and I think the Mets should go after them, but they won’t come at those prices.
I wonder if sheets’ll get that much. didn’t he tear a muscle at the end of the season? I thought I recently read that’s why we’re not hearing much news about him…in addition to his injury history scaring teams, he’s actually injured.
Regardless, I’d still like to see him as a Met, preferably w/ incentive based contract.
I hear ya man. But I’m still blown away by Lowe getting 4/60.
I’d be willing to bet that a team can get Manny for 4/80. Surely he’s worth an extra $20M over those 4 years to play every day, compared to a guy that will play 1 out of every 5 games.
And I just don’t see Ollie getting ONLY $12M per, when Lowe got $15M per. Sure, Lowe has been the better pitcher, but his upside is zero, while Ollie’s upside is infinity.
it wouldn’t surprised me.. but the mets should offer manny 3 years at 65 millions (as trs has it 15/25/25) and see what happens, they will double that guarantee..
Four years, $48 mil to start. An extra $1 mil if he goes 200 IP, $1 mil if he keeps his ERA below 4.10, extra $1 mil if he has 200 Ks, extra $1 mil if he stays below 65 BB. All per season.
Carlos Silva got 4 years, $48 million. Perez is better than Silva. He deserves more.
You can’t compare previous signings… We are in a bad economy. All bets are off.
LMAO!!! ok, so pretty much ALL 2b in baseball deserve a new contract if they make less than castillo!!!
u ever heard of handing out a BAD contract?? silva falls into that category ok..
You hit the nail on the head Alex!
That’s what Boras will be trying to get Perez if not Lowe money.
if boras gets ollie the same contract, ALL base ball will agree for a salary cap.. becoz that would be an outreagously insult..
Just a quick question; when Matt writes that from the club’s perspective, Perez is an unknown both emotionally and physically, what justifies the latter characterization? I can’t recall any trips to the DL for Perez since joining the Mets, and, as near as I can tell, his one long trip on the DL prior to the Mets was a broken toe from kicking a a cart.
It might have something to do with how his arm angle drops a bit when he gets fatigued, but that could also be loss of concentration as the game goes on.
That’s the Peterson myth.
AND YOUR POINT IS??…… HE STILL STINKS!!!!
we HAVE the money to sign them both, but that is if ollie accepts our 3/30.. that’s what he’s worth to me.. and if those other teams are in it for him we should just move on to a big AND better pitcher in sheets, but omar is not fond of him becoz…..
GOD knows why….
Why? How many games did Pedro play? How many games did El Duque play? Who else am I missing? Of course the Mets would be gun shy to sign someone with a injury history, but a low risk, high reward type of deal like the Red Sox gave would be ideal.
So why the mets choke?? becoz of this.. they rather give a bunch of scrap heap players cintract to see which one of them pans out so omar takes credit, making us forget about all the others terrible ones he’s made.. we need to take a chance with sheets, oliver will kill the bbullpen for 10 millions + this year, no.. we should take risk wit good players, not sign bums becoz they don’t get hurt..
well we know why…his injury history and im willing to bet that his asking price at the moment is the reason there isnt alot of buzz around him. nobody has mentioned it yet but just like dunn(a mystery why people were not even consdiering him) its probably way higher than it should be
dirty, that’s what i’ve said before, i don’t think is much his injury but the asking price, NOBODY knows for sure, maybe when they know what he wants they bark at the deal based on his injury years, but i tell you, i sign this guy wit my eyes close instead of giving ollie anything more than what we offer already..
Give him 8 million with incentives up to 15 million and a 15 million with a 2 million buyout.
yea i had this argument with my dad yesterday. You definatly sign sheets if you are looking for a #2. If/When he goes down you have niese in the wings and you move everyone up a day to compinsate. Its just driving me crazy wanting to know what his asking price is!!!
if we sign sheets i’ll even accept pedro here.. i swear to god i would.. coz no matter what happen IF we make the playoffs we’d only use 4 guys anyways:
SUPERMAN
sheets
pelfrey
maine..
3/36M w/ a mutual option for 4th year at 14M
Where I was giddy at the prospect of inserting Lowe AND Perez into our rotation at the start of the offseason, the Wilpons have AGAIN run those hopes into the ground.
At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised at missing out on Wolf, too…
Wolf stinks! A career WHIP of 1.38.. No thanks!
And 76 starts in 5 seasons.
No thanks….. If you lose out on Perez somehow, Garland and sheets. Screw a lefty who is always hurt. Garland will eat innings which you will need if/when sheets is on the DL as your #4 starter.
Johan
Sheets
Maine
Pelf
Garland
Redding
This is if you miss out on perez. with perez
Johan
Sheets
Ollie
Maine
Pelf
Redding
Wolf is terrible. I want nothing to do with him. I don’t care about the whole ‘we need more lefties’ crap.
Don’t worry everyone. Ollie got married = 1.95 ERA this year with 10 complete games!
shows maturity :)
lmao!! so that means he’ll be injure!!
Maybe Reyes should get married, maybe he would stop hacking at the ball and trying to hit a HR every AB. His pop ups would decrease.
Reyes did get married sometime during last season.
thought it was during the off-season
Reyes did get married during the season to his longtime girlfriend, and mother of his children, Katherine. On July 25th.
It was a small town hall wedding, though he said they would have a big wedding in the DR during the winter.
Heyman has lost a lot of credibility this winter with his constant leaking of Boras’ propaganda and lies.
Why he would allow himself to be a PR tool for that slimebucket is a mystery. He should know better.
If you were a ball player, wouldn’t you want Boras as your representative?
I sure would!!
i sure hope he represent me when i get my review jan 20th.. ;-)
alex, I’d expect low proficiency marks. seriously, how much work have you gotten done this offseason?
lol, well, i was second coming hand on a new product for the blackberry storm and blad for verizon.. and help save 35% of profit by doing double work when i could’ve had or use a partner.. and a bunch of other lies i’m planning to tell ;-)
No, I think I would go with the Greenbergs or Tellum — agents with a decent amount of scruples and respect for the game.
I’d want to get settled with my family early in the winter instead of dragging out the process for eons until spring training starts, holding out for every last penny that I don’t even need, and being stuck in a less-than-ideal town as a result.
He spreads the propoganda because then he’ll get the exclusive scoop when the player actually signs. That’s how business works!
What propaganda?
He said the Braves are in on Lowe and are willing to beat the mets offer, if only by a few million. Then he said the braves are offering 4 years 60 million.
And that’s what he signed for.
How was that spreading propaganda? I mean yes i do hate the guy (Heyman) but you can’t get mad at him. He was spot on with the Lowe reporting this past week.
mark … saying the mets offered Olllie a contract when no formal offer was made is “propaganda” …. and saying x,y,z teams are interested in client B when they are not is propaganda too.
Call it what you will, but it’s a lot of lies.
The SF Giants have been laughing at all the lies Heyman has been reporting over their interest in Manny.
That’s how business works unless your integrity and credibility is not for sale.
Matt, maybe you should have had an option for “Don’t want Perez”, because that’s my vote. The only transaction I will be interested in from now on is the firing of Omar Minaya.
LMAO!!!
already?? can you wait till march maybe..??
hey cver,
whats with the negative tone all of a sudden…why are you calling for omars head…is it his fault the braves are stupid?
Hey Dirty – how are you doing, man? I’m just calling it how I see it. Omar and the Mets needed Lowe, since obviously they didn’t want to pay all that money for CC and he’s the only Type B starter that was available this off season as a free agent. OK, you have guys like Sheets, Burnett, etc. but if you go and look at the numbers of all of them, Perez, Garland, Wolf – ONLY Lowe has been consistent the last few years and healthy. He’s good for at least 190 innings per season and probably a minimum of 12 wins. He’s older, but obviously has taken good care of himself, probably has solid mechanics, to have been able to be so healthy and consistent. 60 million for 4 seasons isn’t that excessive, considering the gigantic falloff after him and that now the Braves have him and also, which I’ve stated before on here but I’ll repeat for you, we don’t know if Redding, Maine or Santana will be OK this season as they are all coming off surgery. Perez still hasn’t shown “his potential” – just flashes of it. He might, but we’re supposed to be changing this team for the better and he, while not awful, probably was just as much a part of the problem as the solution. More importantly, it was imperative for us to get someone reliable to pin down the #2 slot, while Pelfrey and Niese mature and as insurance for the event that the other guys aren’t fully healed. Omar has made some good moves, but sometimes he shows that he doesn’t have a clue and his preference for Perez, as has been reported, over Lowe shows me that. Also, if we sign Perez instead of another team, we lose out on two draft picks.
and just like the seating capacity will be scaled back by one fifth, so too will the starting rotation!!!!!
Omar better get going or the mets will lose out on Ollie and Sheets… a 4th and 5th spot in rotation with wolf, neise and or redding isnt going to cut it…
Omar got too cute trying to low ball and bottom feed Lowe now its going to cost more money or wins
No Omar was trying to pay Lowe what he was worth. Which was and is 10-12 million. Again because some team out there was willing to give him the 7th highest annual salary for a pitcher doesn’t make it omar’s fault.
Do you still kill Omar for letting the Giants give Zito that ridiculous contract? I mean the Mets offered Zito a contract about 60 million less. And that would have been dead money as well.
Sometimes the best move is not signing someone at a certain price. And this was the right move… not signing lowe at 15 mil per season for 4 years.
How much is a guy WORTH if he fills a role that gets you to the playoffs?
DID santana get us there?? signing lowe doesn’t guarantee us that.. just like they say with manny… u never know what ca n happen during a season..
Johan made us better. Having a durable, consistent guy to throw 200 innings would have made us better as well.
You’re right, you don’t know what’s going to happen, but you don’t need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind blows.
lol, by 1 game if u go figuretavely, we won 88 in 2007 and 89 in 2008, i like sheets better, and with our bullpen i see us getting at least 3 more wins than last year..
Sign Sheets and trade for Murphy for Sanchez or Evans for Lowry.
You can trade Evans for Sanchez or lowery. Sanchez isn’t that good. Evans and Kunz for either of those should get it done.
I would still do Murphy for Sanchez because we need Sanchez more than we need a platoon LF. This is a pitchers market but not a hitters. So trade Murphy for Sanchez who is cheap and under control at an expensive position and then sign Abreu for 2/16.
If we could not get Sanchez then Lowry should be easy. It might only take Kunz and a coupld of lower prospects.
Good trade ideas but what do you do about the first base situation after next year when Delgado’ s deal expires?
You can’t loose Murphy beacuse he is your next first baseman unless you think LaRoche can do the job.( I think he is a FA next year)
Evans could go though and Kunz could go though.Kunz, Evans and even Parnell? I think Parnel could be our future closer though.
Worst case if Omar does not get Perez OR Sheets he will sign something like Wolf and Pedro and then spend the other 10+ million on the offense.
He’s going to spend 15-17 million either way.
How about:
Sheets 2/20
Garland 2/12
We’d be paying a bit more than we would for Perez, but we’d be getting soooo much more.
Sheets should not get 2 years guarnteed and Garland will need 8 instead of 6.
Fair points. How about make Sheets’ second year an option year that vests with IP or starts and give Garland his 8MM. That still leaves us paying 18MM which should keep us in line with whatever budget our front office seems to be running with.
I was saying a 1 year 8 million dollar deal with incentives pushing the deal to a possible 15 million. Then a mutual option year with a buyout of 2 million. If he’s a waste then we waste 10 million. If not we get an Ace for 2/30.
i applaud the mets for being fiscally responsible and not just throwing a boat load of money at a player just because that’s what they want.
so instead of overpaying for 4 yrs of oliver perez why not take a chance on a 2 yr deal for ben sheets and maybe back it up by signing someone like freddy garcia who may be another risk/reward kind of candidate.
between sheets/garcia/redding you should be more than covered and plus you would still have john neise in aaa to back these guys up as well.
Sheets is clearly the only top flight pitcher left on the market…I like Perez, but I rather see him walk…sign Sheets and Garland
Santana
Sheets
Garland
Pelfrey
Maine
Redding can fill in for Sheets missed starts
Garland would be a great innings eater and a fine mid rotation guy
If we could get Sheets and Garland I would come find you and we would dance in the street together until dawn.
Garland is garbage. I don’t even want him as my long man.
Name 2 #5’s in the NL that are better than him and back it up.
name 1..
Name some #3’s and #4’s…… He’s not as bad as everyone is saying.
he’s won at least 12 games for what 6 of the past 7 years. He’s had 18 wins Twice… His Numbers last season were pretty bad, but he still averaged 6 innings a start and almost hit 200 innings.
Also he’s only 29.
two number 5’s better than who Maine? Number 1, the Mets should have the BEST number 5 anyway, so even if he was the best, that’s the way it should be. Number 2 – Jonathan Sanchez or Randy Johnson…or probably who ever the Cubs get….Adam Miller/Anabel Sanchez…..and that’s just the National League…to win it all, the Mets are in competition with the entire Major Leagues, and depth comes into play through out the duration of the season, so don’t say a number 5 doesn’t count towards post-season play…and I don’t want to cite which AL teams have better, but the Mets need to upgrade dramatically.
Garland you idiot. No one even mentioned Maine.
I think Maine is better than Garland, so…my sentiment stands.
Maine isn’t and won’t be the #5. If somehow Perez and Sheets are signed, the #5 will be pelfrey.
PELFREY > maine
Funny I pictured the San Fermin festival in The Sun Also Rises whe you wrote that TRS………..I guess I will bring the sacks of wine then.
Now that’s a rotation I can be confident about. It really takes the pressure off of Pelf so he can relax and have a good full season, while seeing what Maine has after the surgery.
Needless to say the Mets played the market all wrong, but in Ollie’s case I can’t stress that enough. They should have been saying all along they wanted Ollie back, woo him a bit…he seems to me like the type of guy that would appreciate that. That doesn’t necessarily lock you in…as it’s not contractually binding….they need to make a strong first offer to remedy the situation. I’d offer 4 for 44 with Cy Young incentives….then offer Ben Sheets a 3 for 33 with team option fourth year contract…my bet is Ollie signs with in a week. I think he wants to come back, and I’d very much like him too.
to*
Ollie and Boras don’t care about Wooing. They want the most money.
And 3 years guarnteed for Sheets? I want him but no GM is that stupid.
SIGN BEN SHEETS!!
I like the Sheets and Garland idea…. Sheet i’d give incentive laden contract for 2 years with year 3 vesting if he stays healthy. Garland 1 year
JON GAYLAND IS A BUM!!!
is that rick gayland’s cousin??
Isn’t it hard to be a bum when he makes more money than anyone on here?
Now if you want to say he’s not a very good pitcher, you may be right.
Still, you have not answered my question. Name 2 #5 starters in the NL that are better than him.
Is this ‘Garland is a bum’ thing going to just be reiterated constantly, or are you going to back that up?
i offer both 2 and 2 with incentives.. garland if pitches 200 innings and sheets if he stays healthy.. we can have 5 really horses in our rotation (barring maine’s status)
lol Gayland is better the Wolf or Redding
Garland is better then any #4, #5 in the NL East, and better then most #3’s in the NL.
Who is better from this group Maybe 5-10 people:
#3
Doug Davis
Jair Jurrjens
Ryan Dempster
Bronson Arroyo
Jeff Francis
Chris Volstad
* Mike Hampton
Hiroki Kuroda
Jeff Suppan
John Maine
Joe Blanton
* Zach Duke
* Cha Seung Baek
Randy Johnson
Kyle Lohse
* Shawn Hill
#4
* Max Scherzer
Jorge Campillo
Ted Lilly
Johnny Cueto
* Jason Marquis
Anibal Sanchez
* Brandon Backe
* Jason Schmidt
Manny Parra
Tim Redding
Jamie Moyer
* Tom Gorzelanny
* Wade LeBlanc
Barry Zito
Todd Wellemeyer
Daniel Cabrera
#5
* Yusmeiro Petit * Billy Buckner * Travis Blackley
* Kenshin Kawakami * Charlie Morton * Jo-Jo Reyes
Jeff Samardzija * Sean Marshall
* Micah Owings * Ramon A. Ramirez * Matt Maloney
Greg Smith * Greg Reynolds * Jason Hirsh
* Andrew Miller
* Tyler Lumsden * Brian Moehler * Clay Hensley
* Claudio Vargas
* Seth McClung
* Jonathon Niese * Bobby Parnell
* J.A. Happ Kyle Kendrick
Jeff Karstens
* Kevin Correia
Jonathan O. Sanchez
* Joel Pineiro
* Collin Balester
sheets + wolf/garland is the way to go. take the saved money and put it towards manny. world series here we come!
The front office isn’t spending the money to sign all three of Sheets, Garland/Wolf, and Manny. Manny will NOT be a Met.
Umm. Nostra, signing Sheets and Garland is not saving you any money.
The Mets have 15-20 million to spend right now. If you get Manny you are either trading Delgado or going with Niese and Redding.
of course trade delgado! evans and/or murph can play 1B.
Agree, if we could get Sanchez for Delgado and then sign Manny I would again be dancing in the streets.
If you could get Manny for 3/65 15/25/25 then you would only be adding 3 million to this year. Then next year it’s Delgado’s salary and Wagner’s and that just about cover’s it.
It solves the offense problems for 3 years and allows you to consider trading Church if Fmart is ready.
also, i would have no problem going with niese as the #5. He is the next koosman.
The Mets have A LOT MORE THAN 20 million to spend.
Mets only have “A LOT MORE” then 20 million to spend if they are going to be the ONLY team in all of baseball to add salary onto last seasons.
EVERY TEAM has cut salary or not replaced what has come of the books 100%….. INCLUDING THE YANKEES.
Did the Mets win the World Series last year? TELL ME, DID THEY? NO, THEY DIDN’T, SO THEY NEED, YES, NEED TO DO WHAT’S NECESSARY TO MAKE THAT A VERY REAL PAY OFF AT THE END OF THIS SEASON!!! INCLUDING UPPING PAYROLL!!! WHAT? YOU THINK I’M STUPID ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THERE’S A CHANCE THEY’RE NOT GOING TO MAKE MONEY HAND OVER FIST THIS YEAR!?? SPEND SOME OF IT ON THE FANS, LOYAL FANS WHO DESERVE SOMETHING OTHER THAN A SOURCE OF AGGRAVATION FROM THIS TEAM FOR ONCE!!! GET IT DONE!!! DO WHAT’S NECESSARY!! SPEND THE MONEY!!! WE DESERVE TO WIN!!!!!! SIGN MANNY!!!
SO the Mets as a franchise should lose money to win us fans a world series.
It’s a Business first and fore most.
Get yourself billions of dollars. Buy the New York Mets. Then take a multi-million dollar loss year after year to win.
Then go rip the Wilpons.
Mets will be in the top 5 in spending. You can’t be mad when they are in the top 5. They could possibly be #2. Mets were in the top 1% of the league in spending.
Stop it. Just stop it. Even the Yankees didn’t out spend last years team.
Owners are worried about ticket sales and the economy effecting them. So you can’t go out recklessly and spend money. You Flat out can’t. Unless you 100% certain you and I would spend 100 a ticket and 10 a hot dog and 20 a beer.
SO STOP.
The money they HAVE is less important than the money they’re willing to SPEND. If they were willing to spend a lot more money do you think things would be going the way they are?
Also, Omar messed up not signing Lowe instead of Pedro 4 years ago. Just look at the results and it’s apparent.
Well Pedro helped us sign Beltran…
Sheets will cost 2/30 or close to it.
- Santana (coming off knee surgery)
- Maine (coming off right shoulder surgery)
- Pelfrey (second full year in bigs)
- Redding (career 5th starter with losing record)
- Niese (three career starters, two disasters)
Who we fill the remaining slot with is going to probably go to go a long way to determining whether this is a playoff team or another disappointment.
Casey.
your point is well taken ,but u can’t be optimistic about that, that rotation is not bad if we had someone like sheets, oliver perez will probably be worst that last year.. GOD can’t we at least part with this guy?? we’re pretty much intact fro mthe teams that CHOKE the past 2 years!!! we have the same lineup and pretty much the same rotation.. are we goona over use this new bullpen too?? jesus..
The rotation is that bad. If the pen gets overused, I don’t care if you have 7 Putz’s. they’ll all be tired by August.
well, i guess my thinking is as follows:
- santana comes back strong after a slow start
- maine comes back to form in may
- pelfrey continues to improve
- redding is mediocre
- niese starts the year in aaa if we get another starter.
so, with santana, maine, and pelfrey are good and we have an innings eater in redding, then we need that very good starter to round out the rotation and shoulder some of the burden in the early going when santana and maine are working back to form.
thing is, i didn’t ever think of ollie as a great pitcher while he was here and i certainly don’t think of him as the savior for next year.
this starting rotation is pretty weak. with ollie the best option out there, it’s not getting much better.
That’s why i think signing 2 pitchers is the KEY.
If you sign any of the 2 from Perez/Garland/Sheet. This forces Redding to the the Long Man. Which when Ollie does his 5 or 6 1-4 inning efforts and Maine doesn’t go more then 5, you can bring him in for 3-5 innings and not use the 7 arms needed over the last 2 years.
Missing Darren Oliver has been an understated thing the last 2 seasons. He ate a ton of innings in that bullpen. He pitched 81 innings in 45 appearances. That’s a ton for a RP. When you consider Heilman made 78 appearances to make 76 innings. That’s what you would typically see from a bullpen arm.
That is what the mets need. The Long Man…. So your bullpen is Sanchez/Feliciano/O’day/Green/Robertson in the 6th and 7th….. Then putz and K-Rod.
Not any of thoat 5 person combination coming in the 4th, 5th, and 6th innings. If a Starter doesn’t go 6 innings, you bring in redding for the 5th and 6th, and possibly 7th….then hand it off.
I really think the Mets were getting Lowe until the Braves unexpectedly lost Smoltz to the BoSox. Then, they absolutely had to overpay for Lowe, and they can have him.
I’m beginning to warm to the Perez and Sheets idea. Ollie at 4 yrs/48-50m, and Sheet on a 2 year deal worth 8-10 per, with a 3rd yr option. The guy could prove to be a real steal, and you have Redding and Niese to back him or others up.
I think we may be in a bit of trouble, however, if we lose out on Ollie… Wolf only cuts it for me as a 5th starter type…
If you were Ben Sheets, would there be any way that you’d sign to be on the same team as Ollie Perez for less money?
Another thing is that Omar got a little too cute thinking he could pull the same crap and get away with it – I mean insulting a player with a lowball bid like he did with F-ROD. F-ROD swallowed his pride and got them to up the offer a little and signed. We’ll never know if there was more money out there for him, but Lowe, especially armed with Boras wasn’t gonna fall for that – and there was a market out there for him. Look, you folks that say he wasn’t worth the money – would he be worth the money if he got us that one more win to get us to the playoffs even one year???? C’mon, none of these guys are worth as much to us as a plumber when our toilet is broken – let’s face it. When you consider what aces are getting now, he was worth 15 mil, because aces now get 22 mil – remember that. One good thing that Omar did was get us Beltran and remember how there was talk of us overpaying. Now, it turned out to be a bargain, because it’s nearly impossible to find great fielding and hitting and running centerfielders – he probably is the only one in baseball right now and there are several teams that would pick up his contract as is and maybe even offer him an extension.
Well, to be fair the closer market wasn’t anywhere as strong as the starter market is. Krod wasn’t getting real money from any other team (once his own team decided to move on without him).
Cver…
Cmon bro we could sign manny/perez/lowe/krod/cc/burnett/sheets and that still would not guarentee anything. It would enhance our chances but it guarentees nothing….the braves signing lowe doesnt mean they will go to the WS. Santana is an ACE..lowe is a more reliable pitcher but definatly not an ACE talent. If we would have coughed up 4/60, first off we would be with another(pedro) older and aging pitcher and it would tie our hands from doing anything to address any offensive need. With lowe off the table we have money to sign sheets and a backup with offense or ollie and offense. I think it was a blessing in disguise to be honest and i dont think the mets offer was a lowball but rather what he should be paid…with a little room for negotioation.
If to get Perez it will take 4/48 then we should move on. Mets have to be smart on how they spend their money, and not go overboard because some bored fans in January flood a message board.
The Red Sox have been good examples of sorting out what they view as a player’s worth and sticking to it (letting Pedro and Damon go, Varitek appears next). Its worked pretty well for them.
I hope the Mets stick with their plan. Fan boredom is no way to run a franchise.
The only problem I’d have with letting Perez go is that he is the last real viable option. At least the last healthy option.
We’d still probably have to give someone like Randy Wolf 2 or 3 years if Perez signed elsewhere.
I just don’t see 4 yrs / 48 million for Perez being that bad of a contract. Even imploding at times over the last two seasons, Perez’s overall numbers and future potential are probably worth that much. Especially when you consider the alternatives.
If the Mets truly don’t want to upgrade one of their offensive shortcomings, then I think they should really shell out the money for Ben Sheets and Oliver Perez. 2 yrs / 30 million plus incentives for Sheets, and 4 years / 48 million for Ollie. Even give them vesting options for 3rd and 5th years respectively.
Think about it. In this scenario, the Mets could land Ben Sheets and Oliver Perez for similar total dollars to what the Yankees gave AJ Burnett. They have to take a chance at that.
If Ollie cannot get the 12+ per year he wants, he should go to a team with consistent run support and a big LF, have a really good year, and try again. The Bronx is a good place for him, Yankees need another starter, he’ll win a few games. I really do not want him. If he signs, the only addition we will have made to our rotation is Redding. While Redding is an upgrade over Pedro, et al. he didn’t improve the rotation that much.
I like the idea of Sheets and Colon. The latter should be cheap. If both are healthy, we’d be in pretty good shape, especially with Redding in the pen as long man. If Sheets gets hurt, or Colon starts to stink (pun definitely intended) move Redding back into the rotation. Neise becomes a second option and can spend more time in Buffalo.
Boras Extra Value Meal:
Ollie
Varitek
Manny
when “bought” together, the buyer gets a discount on each
You make the most money selling items individually. There are no package discounts
This is something called A JOKE, SARCASM, etc…
please look into these things, as they add joy to one’s life
Too many bloggers would make this as a serious suggestion
LMAO!!
yeah ok..
is this a happy meal? what’s the prize? a bobblehead of scott bora$$?
For 14-15 a year, I think Sheets is worth the risk. He is an 1-A to Santana and in a short series, if we dare to think that far ahead, could make us a series favorite. So what if he only makes 28-30 starts? he’ll still have more QS than Ollie
BTW, BIG PROPS TO MATT!!!!
Great coverage and just as importantly, I WISH TO POINT OUT:
He told it like it was and didn’t pull any punches!!! Those that accused him of selling out when he made his deal with SNY should take note of some of his content of late. Just one perfect example would be his posts regarding the Inaugural patch.
enough with this frigon patch…who the frig cares? Honestly. WHO CARES? IS IT GONNA EFFECT THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED? NO. IS IT GONNA WIN OR LOSE ANY GAMES FOR US? NO. SO WHO CARES???!!? GIVE ME A BREAK ALREADY WITH THIS PATCH!!! WHO CARES!! SIGN MANNY!!!
I don’t care about it either – just illustrating that Matt isn’t brownnosing the Mets now that he’s working with them.
I do care that Shea got torn down instead of refurbished and we will now be moving into a new stadium that already is rusting before Game 1, which is more of a tribute to the Bkln Dodgers than the Mets and will have higher ticket prices, less seats and will exclude a majority of its fans as a result.
I honestly don’t care about the stadium they play in either…I JUST WANT TO WIN!!! SIGN MANNY!!!
were u known as kherubconamor??
I know nothing of which you speak, but I’ve only heard great things about the aforementioned poster….wondrous things…magnificent things….
Where is the vote choice for someone other than headcase Perez?
Sign Ben Sheets.
jscand,
Great post about signing Sheets and Perez. If the Mets are going to be blind and stubborn about not needing to upgrade the offense (which is a joke), they have to bring in 2 big pitchers to make up for that.
OK – I’ll state the moronic obvious, especially to those of you who say the Braves overpaid for Lowe, which they and we had to do, except they did it:
Why would the Mets need to pay more than 8 mil a year for 2 seasons for Ollie Perez when nobody else even wants him and the other teams would all have to give us 2 draft picks for the privilege? The guy’s value is rock bottom to any team, including the NY Mets, since they’d lose out on the potential 2 picks. What is all of this insane talk of 12 million a year???? Who, are you suggesting would give him that besides Crazy Omar (the guy should open an appliance shop)? Even the Yanks aren’t that stupid!
Wait 2/16 for perez…is that a lowball offer(sarcasm) lol…The mets need pitchers. Sheets has been injured alot and cannot be depended on. Ollie is healthier and has “dealt with ny”(i dont read too much into that but people do). Omar would be in a very tough spot if someone outbids him for ollie just like the crazy braves did for lowe. Omar need some stability and the only pitcher that give him that is ollie. I just hope omar considers sheets a possibility…
dirty, did you just say that the ONLY pitcher that could give omar stability is ollie? or, was that a typo?
lollll yea it was a typo…na what i meant in regards to stability is the mets need bodies to pitch and from the remaining batch ollie and sheet are the highest teir and then yet another drop off. The rotation is not in good shape and needs one more pitcher to be complete…and while most reports have the mets leaning toward perez, it would appear to me that ollie represents the stability needed for a full rotation in omars/mets eyes(health wise)
I don’t think Ollie offers stability and I don’t see anybody jumping at him. He made 8 million this past season, I believe. I’ve just looked again at his stats. Why would anyone pay him 10 million a season considering they’d lose 2 draft picks?
why would someone give a 37 year old pitcher a 4yr guarenteed contract….who knows….
Why did somebody name their login name after Xavier Nady? The guy is practically garbage, I can’t understand the fascination. Who cares if the guy played for the Mets in the past, that should never factor in. He was a .255 hitter who never got a hit when it counted and played sloppy defense. These people have to get off him- plus I don’t want to take the Yankees’ leftover trash anyway.
Omar, do right by your fans. We’ve been through a lot in the past few years. We need Perez or Sheets to contend. Don’t play games with us. It won’t be acceptable for you to only sign
Redding
Wolf
Cora
This would be a major step back, while our competition is only getting stronger. I want to be more positive on this blog, but your not giving us anything to be excited about.
I don’t get this fascination with Ben Sheets. Has anyone ever actually looked at his stats?
The last four seasons he’s averaged 23.5 starts per season, and that includes a 31 start season last year.
He has had three seasons with ERAs above 4.15 and two seasons with ERAs at 3.82. Essentially, he’s had two very good years (2004 and 2008).
His best season, 2004, he made 34 starts and had a 2.70 ERA in 237.0 innings. He had a high in Ks that year (264) that was 94 better than his next best year (in 2002). That year was a career year, an outlier for sure, and the year that destroyed him. In 2005, he made just 22 starts.
He could only toe the rubber 17 times in 2006 and 24 times in 2007.
It took him four years to get to a point where he could start more than 30 times and almost reach 200 innings.
Given his history, what do you think is going to happen in 2009 after he pitched 198.1 innings. The last time he had that type of workload, he broke down.
I don’t want Ben Sheets on this team unless it’s for a very little amount of guaranteed money.
Just a gut feeling, Perez is not going to be a Met (don’t discount the team from the Bronx), and we will settle once more…..Wolf who isn’t as good…..Sheets who is a roll of the dice….Maine is still a big question mark…..and good old Pedro.
Omar….you’re killing me.
It’s not about the mets being, it’s about smart business moves, just look at the situation we are in with Luis Castillo, we overpaid him because we had the money and now look, we are the ONLY team able to afford him and because of that we are unable to trade him now that he is useless.
Would you really prefer to over pay a pitcher only for him to break down (or lose his stuff) and get stuck with his ridiculous salary and unable to trade him because of that? (See the Seattle Mariners ie. Beltre, Washburn, Silva – once great player turned horrible with unmovable large contracts)
USE YOUR BRAIN PEOPLE!!!
we overpaid Castillo because Omar made a mistake. Not because we had money to spend.
well not really a mistake imo. More like he was the best available FA 2b men(if you can belive it) available after eckstien pulled his B move.
Mets should see if Dontrelle Willis is available and take him off the hands of the Tigers. Worse case scenario he is a great pinch hitter…maybe he can play the field. I’m so paranoid, Omar needs to get a pitcher quick before i go crazy.
BEN SHEETS is not that good.
GET SHEETS AND OLLIE.
Redding can be long man/spot reliever if Sheets goes down.
Worth a shot.
Ok “IF” the Mets are smart they will sign Ollie and then higher several pitching coach mentors to study his mechanics and train to a superstar! He has the stuff, but needs wise mentoring. BTW that system works with every player,,,,everyone’s so caught up with $$$ players and half of them don’t work out anyway! Mets should go with youth pitchers and hitters as well to ignite the new stadium.
Here’s just a thought. All of this talk about making a mistake and overpaying in years and money for an older player, etc. Look at this list:
Mo Vaughn
Pedro Martinez
Braden Looper
Scott Schoeneweis
Moises Alou
Luis Castillo
Billy Wagner
Francisco Rodriguez
What these players have in common is that not that they were old when they came here. It is that they had pre-existing injuries when they came here. I sure hope that F-ROD will be fine (not sure if he was actually diagnosed with something, but the Angels didn’t show much interest in keeping him and his velocity went down), but you never know if one of the reasons that he took less than he was asking besides the weak closer market could also be because he knows that he’s not 100%. My point here is that, to our knowledge, Derek Lowe is healthy and has stayed healthy all of these years. So maybe when we consider signing players, we shouldn’t use all of the players on this list as a reason not to sign an older player to a multi-year contract. Their problems might have had to do with pre-existing conditions.
The Wilpons are never willing to go the extra mile. As a poster said yesterday “meaningful games in september” was a telling sign about their personalities as owners. If they wanted rings and pennants they would have given omar the green light for manny. sheets shouldve been on the radar since day 1 and frankly i have no confidence we will get him, perez will probably walk for 4/48 and we will be stuck with arguably the 4th best rotation in our own division. pathetic.
santana
pelf
maine
wolf
redding
really?
I don’t think Omar is that stupid. But 48 over 4 for Perez is absurd. The idea is to improve the team, and when you consider Wagner/K-Rod cancel each other out, the improvement so far is Putz and deleting Heilman and Schoenweis. So, my guess is Omar has something going on under the radar. And why people have not mentioned Ben Sheets and the Mets in the press is beyond me. The guy is a No. 1 starter, who pitched 198 innings last season. He always gets hurt but the price for him would be so much lower than for Perez that you could sign Freddy Garcia or Garland or both for depth. And as for draft picks, you lose a no. 1 if you sign Sheets but you get a no. 1 if you lose Ollie. So if Stl., Milw., LA, or, and it wouldn’t shock me at all, the Yankees, want to spend all of that on Ollie, let them go ahead, so long as Omar brings in quality. Look at the Philly roster. Then look at ours. We don’t look too good.
FYI: I’m a die hard Mets fan, relocated in St. Louis, so I can tell you with pretty sound certainty, after listening to DeWitt, Mozeliak, etc from the Cards …
… there is no way in Hades the Cards will spend 10 mil / year on a pitcher. I could see them signing two or three guys to a total of 10/year … but not on one guy.
DeWitt specifically mentioned Carpenter as a guy to count on, and if he can’t go, it’s not like there is 10 million to give to another pitcher.
So you can take them out of the running.
Some call it hell, I call it hades.
I have seen Perez pitch many times at Turner Field and 9 out of 10 times he is LIGHTS OUT. I’d much rather have a young and improving Perez, than an older Lowe. I love it when he jumps over the fowl line and gets excited to get people out. If Lowe is now the Braves ace, that means we match up Santana against him and Maine/Perez against Hudson, then Maine/Perez against Jergens. I like our chances to win that series. Go Mets!
Does he jump over that “fowl” line b/c he’s afraid of birds? LOL.
When ‘08 ended I had no desire to see OP back in a Mets uniform. He in part represented a serious part of last season’s failure–high walks took him out of a good few games early, and then the clownish BP parade…
Is he young? DOes he have serious talent? Of course. The problem is that last year was supposedly the year to prove he was Big Time and worth a serious long-t contract. In this crucial regard, his season practically was a failure. I saw him pitch two brilliant games, one at Shea w/ 13 whiffs, and I was sure he was on the mend. The last six weeks of the season and Perez speaks for itself.
At this point, I certainly think he’s about as valuable as the rest of the not-so-prime cuts that are out there, but if we fail to sign him I am not going to be too disappointed in the way I am that we messed up dealings w/ Lowe, though I admit Lowe was no easy signing.
Anyway, OP does nothing for me. Maybe we need a clean break from this kind of 07-08 BB seasons.
SHEETS, ODALIS, WIGGY, OHMAN!
If the payroll is at $125 mil now that we’ve signed Cora. (which is what I’ve heard) Maybe we can Sheets for $8-10 mil on 1 or 2 year deal. Odalis for $4 mil on a 1 year deal?
Ohman 2 year deal worth $3 or 4 mil per and Wiggy $5,6 mil per on a 1 or 2 year deal?
That’s about $148 mil or so total. (only $5 mil more than last years payroll) Delgado and Wagner come off the books after 2009 so that cuts it $25 mil back down to the $120’s again. Your Thoughts?
im sorry that simply makes too much sense. more likely scenario would involve us signing wolf and some retread like ricardo rincon to a minor league deal and calling it an offseason bc the wilpons are gutless and omar has too much faith in fernando tatis.
Sheets/Perez and Wiggy.. Thats all I want.
i just looked at the results of the poll….anyone who voted to give oliver perez more than 15 million per year (35 of you) should be immediately banned from posting on this site. Just so everyone knows and im sure most people agree with me, Lowe has been the better pitcher hands down, you DO NOT base your contract offer to perez or any other inconsistent pitcher based on you thinking he will one day “click” and live up to his talents. It doesnt work that way. You base his salary on what he has done in the past, not what you THINK he will do in the future. Thank You
You need to be banned. Who made you DICTATOR?
Well I am begining to think we were used by Boras to get Lowe the con tract he wanted from Atlanta all along. After all he has family in Florida soother than Rays or marlins who had no interest that is the closest he could get.
I think we are going to have to Pony up for Perez and at this point the mets should pay up to 15 a year for 4 years….even if we have to be creative and pay more money later in the contract.
We should also start to open negotiations with Sheets just to cover our base.
Cora is a good move for stability on the bench…then maybe just one mderate right handed bat…
Come on Minaya, get er’ done.
Sheets & Garland > OP & Redding
if they dont get perez wrapped up things will get ugly
Ollie is worth 3 years for $30 and no more. We’re insane to give him a 4 year $48 mil deal when we can sign Manny instead. Manny would make such a huge difference in our team. Way more than Ollie would. We can get another similar starter for way less years and dollars.
We need to open negotiations with Sheets NOW! It would be downright stupid to try to lowball Boras without a backup position that’s set up and ready to go.Submit a deal to Sheets’ agent and I’ll bet Ollie’s price drops quite a bit. We may find ourselves able to get both of them at a decent price. You may even find Ollie getting the smaller paycheck.
The more I think about it, the more I see how the Mets are gonna play out the Delgado contract and get picks for him and let Murph or Evans play 1B next year.
Personally, an infield of Wright, Reyes, Murphy, and Evans isn’t too shabby if Evans can learn to hit better…he already is a decent defensive 1B
F-mart – Beltran – (insert LF )
what did I type in error that I’m being moderated? I didn’t spell p*a*s*s
for some reason G-r-i-f-f-e-y gets put into moderation. So some combination of those letters could be tripping you up
Sorry that was 1992